Three for four
From the world of safe and legal abortions came this in the LATimes, June 21:
The mother of a Riverside woman who died of toxic shock syndrome after allegedly undergoing an abortion procedure at Planned Parenthood filed a malpractice suit against the organization and a Riverside County hospital this week.
The lawsuit alleges that Edrica Goode, 21, went to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Riverside for an abortion Jan. 31 and that a nurse inserted cervical dilators, used to gradually expand the cervix in preparation for second-trimester abortions, despite the fact that Goode had a vaginal infection.
The dilators, which are shaped like small sticks and consist primarily of seaweed, became a conduit that spread the infection to the rest of her body, the lawsuit alleges.
Goode, a Riverside Community College student who enjoyed traveling and reading, died Feb. 14.
“My daughter made a choice, but she didn’t choose to die,” said Aletheia Meloncon, Goode’s mother, who said her daughter hadn’t told her she was seeking an abortion. “A lost dog gets more attention than my daughter did. This has really torn at my family.”
Goode did not return to the clinic to have the dilators removed, even though the devices are supposed to stay in place only one or two days, the lawsuit states….
Goode’s is the third known death among Planned Parenthood patients in California in the last four years. Holly Patterson, 18, of Livermore, Calif., died of an infection after a nonsurgical abortion in 2003. Diana Lopez, a 25-year-old Huntington Park woman, bled to death a year earlier after her cervix was punctured during the procedure….
A worker at this clinic was also caught on tape agreeing to a “don’t ask don’t tell” scenario to cover up the statutory rape of a caller posing as a 13-year-old who had been impregnated by her 22-year-old boyfriend.
[Hat tip: Operation Rescue]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Why didn’t she return to have her dilators removed?
The clinic can hardly be responsible if patients stay away with dilators inside them. OF COURSE you’re going to have problems with infection if you leave dilators inside your cervix for an extended time.
My bet: this turns out to have been the patient’s own fault (noncompliance).
Stick a wad of organic material in your unit and leave it there for TWO WEEKS, and you too would die of toxic shock. I know a guy who had a monster toxic septicemia after he zoned on painkillers and left the gauze from his wisdom tooth exractions in his mouth for for thirty hours. (The genius forgot his antibiotics as well…)
I’m not sure that I’d even regard this as an abortion-related story, as no abortion was performed.
It is, however, a cautionary tale about being your own best health advocate, and taking responsibility for your own care.
Speaking for myself, I would never leave seaweed, driftwood, orcas, or anything nautical in my cervix for two weeks. I’m just careful that way…
Regardless of the patient’s actions, it was negligent of the nurse to insert the laminaria when the woman had a vaginal infection.
Also, do we know *why* the woman didn’t have the laminaria removed? It seems very strange that she would go far enough to get them inserted, but then refuse treatment. Perhaps she changed her mind and didn’t know what to do?
A propos to the whole statutory rape thing, I have some statistics (no, I am not condoning statutory-rape-esque relationships, before anyone jumps all over me–just some neutral statistics).
The average age of a girl facing an unplanned, out-of-wedlock “teen pregnancy” scenario is 15. The average age of the guy is 21.
Crazy, isn’t it?
It’s so funny how you all are saying well it’s the woman’s fault, so no problem.
I am reminded of how when the “coat hanger” argument is brought up, faulty as it is, in the pro-choice opinion, it would somehow be the the pro-lifers fault if a woman injured herself during an abortion? Because we do not support legal abortion, so we somehow magically forced her to stick a hanger up her vagina and kill herself. Right?
Yet, when a woman dies after Planned Parenthood neglects to tell her everything she needs to know, and fails to follow up on her, you say it is the woman’s own fault?
How come in one situation the woman is all of a sudden accountable for her own actions, and responsible for her own death? But in another situation she is not accountable for her own actions? Just curious.
Leah, how are you doing? Your post at my blog has me a little bit concerned. That was you, right? I hope you’re allright.
Speaking for myself, I would never leave seaweed, driftwood, orcas, or anything nautical in my cervix for two weeks. I’m just careful that way.
Well, see, I would never stick a coat hanger up my vgina, but what can i say… I’m just careful that way.
Leah, 6:10a, said: “The average age of a girl facing an unplanned, out-of-wedlock “teen pregnancy” scenario is 15. The average age of the guy is 21. Crazy, isn’t it?”
Leah, you’re right. Planned Parenthood/Guttmacher studies agree. The younger the girl, the older the perpetrator. Abortion and the morning-after pill protect statutory rapists/pedophiles/incest perpetrators.
Bethany, 7:34a: Excellent point.
When a girl/woman did something ignorant or uneducated when abortions were illegal, it was our fault or the abortionist’s fault.
When they do something ignorant or uneducated now that abortions are legal, it’s their own fault.
“A lost dog gets more attention than my daughter did. This has really torn at my family.”
And her grandson or granddaughter? The same could be said about that kid too. They still don’t seem to get it do they?
When they do something ignorant or uneducated now that abortions are legal, it’s their own fault.
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That woman had access to a clean, safe abortion, and yet chose to to go WAY out of her way to get an infection and die.
Anyone remember the “Rely” tampon/toxic shock deaths? Those occured in less than 72 hours.
Planned Parenthood tried to reach this woman several times. She CHOSE to ignore them and not seek treatment.
Laura, you think that two letters allegedly sent in the mail is good enough to be considered “reaching out”?
Planned Parenthood, I’m very sure, understands how dangerous it would be to leave those in. If they truly cared about her safety, why didn’t they call? I mean, at the very least, they should have been concerned about their reputation if something was to happen to her. All they did was send a couple of letters?
I would expect a hospital to contact me if they had put something in me that needed to be taken out within a short time to prevent me from DYING. Why didn’t they do anything more to try to reach her?
And why didn’t the family receive those letters?
I don’t believe they were actually sent.
And again, you’re making the woman accountable for her own “choice”. Funny how that works for you in this situation but not in a situation where a woman “chooses” to stick a coat hanger up her vagina (no documented cases of this even exist anyway).
That woman had access to a clean, safe abortion, and yet chose to to go WAY out of her way to get an infection and die.
Oh also, doesnt this kind of disprove the idea that access to safe and legal abortions prevents women from making mistakes that could prove fatal during abortion?
Oh also, doesnt this kind of disprove the idea that access to safe and legal abortions prevents women from making mistakes that could prove fatal during abortion?
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She didn’t make a “mistake.”
She knew what to do and CHOSE not to do it.
It was suicide.
Per Bethany:
“Well, see, I would never stick a coat hanger up my vgina, but what can i say… I’m just careful that way.”
Great point Bethany!!!!
According to the article:
After the dilators were inserted, Goode began to experience fevers and started vomiting, Meloncon said. She became mentally unstable, not knowing what the day was and acting aggressively, her mother said.
So this woman was supposed to have the wits about her to make good decisions???
Why didn’t PP have an emergency contact on file to call someone to follow-up???
The article also states letters were sent but the family never got them. Who’s to say PP covered up and stated the had been sent in her file. Cuzzzz we all know that’s happened before.
Per Laura:
“I’m not sure that I’d even regard this as an abortion-related story, as no abortion was performed.”
Pleae explain this statement. She got them inserted at PP as part of the procedure. Not to mention the nurse knew she had a vaginal infection.
Shame on anyone for blaming this woman for what she did.
PS
Actually Laura, the abortion did take place along with the death of the mother.
Thanks for asking, Bethany! That’s really sweet of you.
That was me on your blog, yes. Don’t worry about me. I’m just–as my mother would tell me–overresearching. I have a tendancy to do that. When I was six I thought I was going to have a heart attack because I read about them on a computer game I had. :)
Your concern is really touching, though, especially since we only know each other from opposite sides of an internet debate. I’ll keep you posted–and thanks again for those sites.
Another aspect of abortion that likely contributed to this young woman’s demise – along with her baby’s – is its shroud of secrecy. She didn’t tell her mother, so when she became delirious, who knew why? Nor could PP apparently just pick up the phone and call to check on things like any legitimate out-patient surgery center could
She didn’t make a “mistake.”
She knew what to do and CHOSE not to do it.
It was suicide.
Couldn’t one also logically assume that a woman knows not to stick a coat hanger up inside herself, and that if she does it, it’s basically suicide as well?
Sandy, good points. And one other thing I wonder if why these planned parenthood clinics don’t keep the ladies overnight instead of sending them home, since it is obviously very dangerous? Would a hospital send you home if they induced labor and expected you to deliver a baby the next morning? This doesn’t make sense to me.
And Laura, Sandy is right. The abortion happened, she delivered the baby before she died. This is definitely an abortion related issue. To state it isn’t is just silly. The woman should have received better care. They should have followed up. She shouldn’t have died. That’s all there is to it.
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Leah, I am so relieved. I was really wondering what was going on and if you were okay. Thank you for offering to keep me posted!
Another aspect of abortion that likely contributed to this young woman’s demise – along with her baby’s – is its shroud of secrecy. She didn’t tell her mother, so when she became delirious, who knew why? Nor could PP apparently just pick up the phone and call to check on things like any legitimate out-patient surgery center could
Jill, I was going to mention that too, that is a great point.
“Leah, you’re right. Planned parenthood/Guttmacher studies agree. The younger the girl, the older the perpetrator. Abortion and the morning-after pill protect statutory rapists/pedophiles/incest perpetrators.”
Yes… and god forbid we ask what the hell her parents are doing.
I’m going to abstain from making any judgements one way or the other, as none of these articles suggests that there was actual evidence of a vaginal infection, or that the nurse was so informed.
It sounds like the mother, the only person answering questions, may be conflating the autopsy findings (most certainly a vaginal infection as ultimate cause of toxic shock), with the procedure. In other words, any half completed procedure of this nature, left unattended, is going to get infected, and there’s a burden here to demonstrate that the infection was actually known and apparent in advance of the dialation procedure.
Unless planned parenthoods records indicate that they knew she was infected, the will not be liable.
Cameron, 12:21p, said: “Yes… and god forbid we ask what the hell her parents are doing.”
Cam, I’m not exactly clear what you meant, but I think we agree for once. You’re right. Your pals in the abortion industry do not want to know. They just want their $. Pro-lifers on the other hand certainly want it investigated if there is a chance a girl is being raped by her father.
This exerpt was just sent to me from a buddy on another board. It’s from the LA Times. I’m not sure anyone COULD help this chick (she WAS a 21-year-old American adult, after all…)I’m not sure how long it would have taken to have her examined by psychiatric professionals and have her delcared a batcake in court, but I’m not sure it could have been done in time.
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“With her condition deteriorating, Goode was taken to Riverside County Regional Medical Center in Moreno Valley on Feb. 4.
A hospital blood test confirmed that Goode was pregnant, and Meloncon said she asked that a pelvic examination be performed. The hospital, the lawsuit contends, said it couldn’t perform one because Goode would not consent.
“She was confused and disorientated,” Meloncon said. “It was totally out of character for what her behavior normally is.”
After staying in the medical ward five days, Goode was transferred to a psychiatric unit and then immediately returned to the medical ward, the lawsuit contends. Before the transfer, the lawsuit states, Goode received a gynecological consultation, but no pelvic examination was performed to remove the seaweed sticks.
After Goode returned to the medical ward, her condition continued to deteriorate, Meloncon said. The hospital, she said, performed a pelvic examination Feb. 13 and found the seaweed sticks and gauze. Goode had a miscarriage that day and died the next.”
Cameron,
Sounds to me like K. Sorenson without question knew of the infection.(Story below)
Although, I don’t think this case would be dependant on an initial infection.
“During the initial exam, a “nurse practitioner, K. Sorenson,” found an “odiferous creamy-colored discharge” indicative of a bacterial infection, according to the lawsuit.”
“Despite the clear indications of bacterial infection, the nurse practitioner inserted the dilators. “Thus, the seaweed stick cervical dilators became like wicks that would [turn] the existing local infection
Hi Bethany,
I hope you are ok. I tried contacting you through the e-mail address you posted but was unsuccessful. How can I reach your blog or by e-mail? I will try again.
Thanks.
Sandy
Sandy, my blog address is http://bethany.preciousinfants.com, and you can email me at mail@ preciousinfants.com (notice I put a space in between the @ symbol and the p. The reason for that is to make sure that I don’t get spam from posting the email address on this blog. It’s happened before. When you go to email me, just delete that space, and the email will send to me. Let me know on this blog if you’ve sent me an email and I haven’t replied within 1 day. :)
Sandy da Tool,
I can
Sorry Cameron,
I guess the biased LA Times just conveniently left out the name of the NP and the fact she stated there was a vag. infection.
Per Cameron,
“Guessing is about all you?re capable of… I would suggest that you avoid the rhythm method.”
(Would you please stop with the personal insults.)
I am not speaking to this one death in particular Cameron. I was addressing my question to the whole industry which has a history of crimes against women. As in the story which states that three deaths went unpreported to the state and they were caught with I am sure one of many statutory rape conver-ups.
This clinic was also sited with patient documentation problems. What a surprise.
Also,
Geri Santoro? Ring a bell? Pro-choicers have been exploiting her death for the last 40 some years as the poster child for illegal abortions.
Per Laura:
“This exerpt was just sent to me from a buddy on another board. It’s from the LA Times. I’m not sure anyone COULD help this chick (she WAS a 21-year-old American adult, after all…)I’m not sure how long it would have taken to have her examined by psychiatric professionals and have her delcared a batcake in court, but I’m not sure it could have been done in time.”
A batcake? How insensative and judgemental on your part Laura.
Yes. Let’s defend PP and put all the blame on this woman. Where is your compassion?? I thought all you pro-choicers had compassion for women.
She was physically ill with a raging infection in her body that obviously affected her cognative skills.
I had a friend who almost died of septicemia from an undiagnosed appendicitis. She had seen three doctors with pain in her abdomen. Since she had gone through a gyno operation a couple months earlier they brushed the symptoms off as scar tissue or endomitriosis.
She fell ill very quickly and went “batcakes”. She was acting way out of the norm. Her husband called 911 and by the time she reached the hospital she had a white blood count of 0 and was near death.
She went into the OR for exploritory surgery and they found out she had open infections raging all over her internal organs.
She spent several days in intensive care and has never been the same. Too much nerve damage done due to the infection.
There were many factors that lead to this woman’s death, but do not blame her.
She was an adult who chose to ignore medical advice and refused treatment until it was too late. This is America. If she chose that path, what was Planned Parenthood supposed to do? Track the signal from her radio collar, fire a tranquilizer dart into her ass, chase her till she dropped and treat her by force?
That technique works fine for Jeff Corwin on Animal Planet, but it’s frowned upon in many medical and legal circles.
As far as “what was Planned Parenthood supposed to do?” Well that’s easy! You don’t send someone home with the crap stuck inside them. She was apparently suffering from infection already so lets put this stick in her and then send her home. Do you understand that the clinic workers are coherent and she was “batcakes” possible because of the infection?!?
As far as “what was Planned Parenthood supposed to do?” Well that’s easy! You don’t send someone home with the crap stuck inside them!
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Yes, you do.
The dilators work just fine 99.9 percent of the time. If we used your logic, everyone would schedule a hospital stay everytime they used a tampon.
I’ve been sent home with shunts and drains, as well as pins and rods sticking out of my bones and through the skin. We’ve all seen people in those “halo” neck braces with exposed bolts screwed into their skulls. All of those are potential paths for infection. Follow the instructions and you’ll be just fine.
It was mentioned on TV that Planned Parenthood spoke to Goode’s mother (her emergency contact) on two different occasions. $10.00 says that there’s a long-distance or cellphone record of the calls being made. I bet the letters sent are still recorded on the hard drive of the ‘puter used to create them.
And did they stick those pins and rods through your skin and into your bones with and infection surrounding them? And was the purpose of the pins and rods to open the holes and make them bigger? INFECTION! Her only mistake was going to PP and getting an abortion.
Her only mistake was going to PP and getting an abortion.
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If she had had the abortion and done the requisite antibiotic series she’d be fine.
She chose to ignore medical advice and refused treatment.
The dilators work just fine 99.9 percent of the time. If we used your logic, everyone would schedule a hospital stay everytime they used a tampon.
Can a woman pull the laminara sticks out of her cervix easily, like a woman can pull a tampon out?
Sometimes tampons can get stuck though or the string falls off…and that is an unpleasant and embarrassing situation for all of those involved. >_
Can a woman pull the laminara sticks out of her cervix easily, like a woman can pull a tampon out?
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Actually, I think so-
I know that they have to be anchored in place with gauze.
(This is a wild guess on my part. I work in a veterinary practice that serves a lot of dairy farms. Laminaria dilators are used all the time and are easily flipped out. Of course, a dairy cow’s vagina IS slightly larger than my office cubicle…)
Bethany and Jill,
You make a great point about the double standard. Its “society’s” fault for abortion not being legal if a woman foolishly puts a rusty coathanger through her cervix, but its the woman’s fault if she doesn’t return to have the laminaria removed.
The same holds true concerning CPCs. We hear the argument from pro-choicers that women can make their own choices without others telling them what to do with their bodies. We see women serving as police officers, firefighters, as part of space missions, as well as serving courageously in the military. However, the moment these or any other women are “lured” into a CPC they become helpless, simpering wimps.
You make a great point about the double standard. Its “society’s” fault for abortion not being legal if a woman foolishly puts a rusty coathanger through her cervix, but its the woman’s fault if she doesn’t return to have the laminaria removed.
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Nope.
Nobody has to stick a coathanger in their uterus because clean, safe, medical abortions are legally available.
Nobody has to leave rotting seaweed in their cervix because clean, safe, medical abortions are legally available.
If Edrica Goode and Geri Santoro had both accessed clean, safe, legal abortions, they’d be alive today. Unfortunately, legal abortion wasn’t legal when Ms. Santoro needed one, and Ms. Goode CHOSE not to follow medical advice and refused treatment.
Laura,
I know a nurse who lived in New York City, the mecca of legal abortion, who could tell you of women inducing illegal abortion on themselves. She assured me these women, in fact any woman no matter what her circumstances, could get a legal abortion in NYC if she wanted one. When I asked her why women would self induce she could only shrug her shoulders and say “damned if I know”. People don’t always do what we would assume to be the most sensible. I also know a nurse who bragged as to how she could have self induced as well if she had been pregnant. Also, the coathanger argument was bogus. I believe another poster on this blog stated there was no known death from coathanger abortion. Most illegal abortions were done in doctor’s offices and the death rate from illegal abortion had been steadily declining for years prior to Roe v Wade.
The point I was trying to make in my post is that either women are strong and capable, able to make important decisions, or they are helpless victims, whatever best suits the feminist agenda at the moment.
You mention Ms. Santoro would be alive today if legal abortion had been available. Holly Patterson would be alive today today, if she hadn’t accessed “safe legal” abortion by RU486.
Laura,
Why are you not getting this. The woman’s mental facilites were compromised from the raging infection in her body. She obviously wasn’t in the right mind to make good medical decisions for herself.
As I stated earler my friend went completely off course within a few hours.
She had lunch with eight of law firm partners and was fine. Over the course of the afternoon, she went downhill very quickly and couldn’t make any decisions for herself.
If her husband hadn’t been home when he was to call 911, she probably wouldn’t bee alive today.
Geri Santoro was in the right mind to make decisions for herself. Unfortunately the woman had a history of making bad decisions.
The worst and final decision she made was to employ her so-called boyfriend and his buddy (who both left her to die)to perform an illegal abortion with a “how to” book, and a set of kitchen utensils in an unsanitary hotel room.
Why didn’t Geri Santoro rush herself to the local emergency room when she realized things weren’t going according to plan?
Sandy,
An excellent point as to how one’s mental and physical condition can deteriorate so rapidly with sepsis. Your friend was obviously unaware of just how critically ill she was. This is not uncommon, and has resulted in many people not seeking the emergency care they needed in time to save their lives. I understand that the late muppeteer Jim Henson died, and actress Elizabeth Taylor nearly died, because they brushed off their sepsis symptoms as just “the flu”.
I agree that Ms. Santoro had a history of bad decision making, and selecting “boyfriends” seems to head the list. You’re right Sandy, 911 could certainly have been called.
OK, you’re right.
My ex-neighbor had bypass surgery. He then went on to gain 50 pounds, never exercised, and forgot his medication on a regular basis.
He died.
Clearly this is the fault of his surgeon, and all cardiac surgery should be outlawed. It kills, ya know…
Any woman too stupid to follow simple medical advice was WAY too stupid to care for a child.
Laura,
This isn’t really an apt comparison. Your neighbor, over an extended period of time, went back to his bad eating habits and lack of exercise as well as ignoring his medication. Its not like he had suffered a stroke that rendered him incapable of caring for himself or making the proper choices. Perhaps he, like Ms. Santoro, simply made very bad decisions and paid the ultimate price for doing so. He had time to reverse this course and save his life. For whatever reason he didn’t. This can be fatal for anyone, heart surgery or not.
Sudden physical and mental deterioration is entirely different and that is the point Sandy and I are trying to make. Its entirely possible that Ms. Goode was rendered incompetent by her infection, or she may not have realized just how seriously ill she was. I don’t know enough details on this situation to give an opinion, and I am open to the possibility that Ms. Goode made not have followed instructions as she should have, but I do know what sepsis can do to people so I keep that possibility in mind as well. Also, if she did indeed have a vaginal infection, then tampering with her cervix would definitely be asking for trouble by giving the infection direct access to her pregnant uterus, an excellent breeding ground for infection.
Its entirely possible that Ms. Goode was rendered incompetent by her infection, or she may not have realized just how seriously ill she was.
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She went to Riverside County Medical Center – a very good hospital. Several medical professionals felt that she was competent enough to choose to refuse treatment.
Back when I still had a pure heart, I tried to help morons all the time. It can’t be done.
(You want to see a frothing mess? Ask a cosmetic surgeon how often his orders are violated, and how often non-compliance results in infection and carnage. Then – as in this case – the moron will turn around and sue.)
Laura,
So was Geri Santoro a moron??
Just curious.
Laura,
So was Geri Santoro a moron??
Just curious.
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I’m sure if Geri Santoro had had access to a clean, safe medical abortion, that what she would have chosen. I daresay she would have followed her doctor’s aftercare orders.
Laura,
I work in the medical area and I’ve seen many a “frothing mess” many times over many years. I, like you, have also dealt with people that made me pound my head against the wall. From what I read, the doctors did not do a pelvic exam because she was too confused to consent, but they did test her for pregnancy which was positive. She spent 5 days on the medical ward then was transferred to the psych ward, who promptly sent her back to the medical ward, where she continued to deteriorate. Only when her boyfriend mentioned the visit to PP did it occur to anyone to do a pelvic at which time the laminaria was discovered. She died the next day.
Why was laminaria inserted if indeed there was a vaginal infection? This could very well have trigged the sepsis. Why was a pelvic never performed to begin if they knew she was pregnant? They could legally perform this on an incompetent patient without her consent if it was necessary to diagnose and treat her. Emergency rooms treat incompetent patients without their consent on a regular basis. She might well be alive today if they had. Ms. Goode’s condition deteriorated overnite after the laminaria was inserted which could indicate infection setting in. Why did no one question her confusion and mental state and look into its cause? I understand the suit is against both PP and the hospital. It looks like there is indeed some very questionable care by both and plenty of blame to go around.
Laura, 9:41a, said: ” Nope. Nobody has to stick a coathanger in their uterus because clean, safe, medical abortions are legally available. Nobody has to leave rotting seaweed in their cervix because clean, safe, medical abortions are legally available.”
Nope back. Your comparison is wrong. Pro-aborts used illegal coathanger abortions as the main reason to make abortions legal. Illegal coathanger abortions were society’s fault, not the woman’s.
Laura,
I wouldn’t make that assumption. People do not always do what we assume would be the sensible course of action. I gave you some examples in a previous post. Space and good taste wouldn’t permit me to describe what I have seen people do to themselves for who knows what reason or for what sick thrill it gave them. Do we know anything of Ms. Santoro’s mental health history?
Mary, is Ms. Santoro the woman sprawled on the dirty hotel room floor from the illegal abortion?
Okay, just googled it. That is who I thought it was. Here is my opinion on that. This was a grown woman. She was not some frightened teenager. Let’s say that I am in her position for a moment. I desperately want an abortion, but I cannot afford one. If I give my boyfriend a pair of pliers and ask him to perform a major surgery, I ought to know it will probably kill me. This lady should have carried to term and given the baby up for adoption.
oops,just read all of the above posts. I haven’t been on line for a week. [computer was down] Anyway, it’s the same story with Becky Bell. The pro choice crowd isn’t interested in facts. All they care about is keeping abortion legal. Becky did not die from an illegal abortion, so why does the pro choice crowd keep exploiting her? I find this to be very offensive!
Heather4life,
I have never seen any pictures and know only what I have read here. I question Ms. Santoro’s mental health for a reason. Some years ago, Deborah Spungen, the mother of Nancy Spungen who was slain by punk rocker Sid Vicious, wrote a very moving account of her daughter’s short and very troubled life. Nancy was mentally ill and Mrs. Spungen wrote a very moving account of her family’s and Nancy’s struggle. In one account, Mrs. Spungen was called to the hospital where her teenage daughter was being treated for inducing an abortion on herself, apparently with some kind of object. In fact, Nancy was never pregnant and her mother was convinced that this was just another episode of self destructiveness by Nancy, who had also slashed her wrists at age 11. Nancy would maintain for the rest of her life that she had had an “illegal abortion”, when in fact she hadn’t. This was how her mind worked.
Do we know anything at all about Ms. Santoro, especially her mental health history? What about her “boyfriend” and his friend. Are we certain she had no access to legal abortion? There are many factors to consider and we can’t form any conclusions about what happened or why.
Mary, thank you for the above post.[interesting] I also wanted to say that you can bring up the pic of Ms. Santoro by entering her name into web search and then hit / abortion. I am in the medical profession, so I am able to look @ the photo. Ms. Magazine has used this photo for years, so this is not the first time I have seen it. I am sorry for this woman’s passing, but it is my understanding that Ms. Magazine is exploiting her as well.
Per Laura:
“I’m sure if Geri Santoro had had access to a clean, safe medical abortion, that what she would have chosen. I daresay she would have followed her doctor’s aftercare orders.”
Laura, you didn’t answer my question.
Do you think Geri Santoro was a moron??
Mary,
Thank you for bringing up some great points.
As you stated Holly Patterson also went to that clinic and died. I looked up the story on the other woman, Diana Lopez. She died at the hands of a doctor there who peformed her 19ish week abortion in a record six minutes. (He probably had a tee time to make as the article states he was an avid golfer) I believe she bled to death from a cervial laceration.
Mary or Heather, being in the medical field, would you have any idea what the protocol is if a woman presents with a vaginal infection and is seeking a second trimester abortion?
Why would they have proceeded with the procedure??
I can only speculate that it was a numbers game with the clinic. They probably had some sales spiff in progress and the clinic with the most abortions performed that week got a free weekend in Sonoma.
Heather4Life, Glad you’re back!
I am in the medical profession, so I am able to look @ the photo.
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Huh?
For heaven’s sake Heather that picture is 43 years old! I remember seeing it now. Its been put on display for years. I thought this was a more recent event. Is this the best our opponents can do? Well, obviously she couldn’t have called 911 as it didn’t exist then but someone could certainly have called the operator, which is what we did back then when help was needed.
It certainly is tragic this poor woman died, but again, what do we know of the circumstances of her life and her mental health? We look at a picture and draw a conclusion. Talk about ancient history. That would be like still showing pictures of polio victims in iron lungs.
By the way Heather, I visited a pro-choice site and they were showing pictures of women who died 50, 60, and 70+ years ago from alleged illegal abortion! I mean, come on already. Back then people also died of scarlet fever, diptheria, and measles. Certainly if women had been dying by the thousands by illegal abortion, they would have all kinds of up to date pictures, and would not need archeologists to find these unfortunate long dead women that they have to recycle for decades.
Pro-aborts used illegal coathanger abortions as the main reason to make abortions legal. Illegal coathanger abortions were society’s fault, not the woman’s.
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“Coathanger abortions” were never the main argument for making abortion legal.
Privacy and bodily autonomy have ALWAYS been the cornerstone of the pro-choice movement.
Do you think Geri Santoro was a moron??
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, she was driven to desperation.
Throwing yourself out of a high-rise window is moronic. Thowing yourself out of a high-rise window to avoid the burning fuel from a terrorist attack is an act of desperation.
I’m sure that Geri Santoro would have much preferred an abortion that would have saved her, not one that killed her.
Sandy,
I wouldn’t be certain of what if any protocol there is. If it is determined the patient has a vaginal infection, the last thing I would want to do, and this is my opinion, is tamper with the cervix in any way. The cervix is closed and plugged to keep the baby in, and pathogens and all foreign material out. Dilating the cervix when you know there is an infection is just giving this infection a pathway to the pregnant uterus, a perfect breeding ground for more infection. I would also think the laminaria itself would offer a good breeding ground for more infection as well. I still remember the woman who walked into the ER complaining that she had not been feeling well for a week or so. She died less than 24 hours after being diagnosed with a uterine infection despite vigorous treatment. Obviously, the potential for uterine infection is something to be taken very seriously. Why they would have proceeded with the procedure on Ms. Goode if she did have an infection is beyond my comprehension.
Ms. Goode developed symptoms(vomiting, fever, confusion) the night after the laminaria was inserted which would indicate infection was quickly setting in. No surprise there.
Laura,
I beg to differ with you on the issue of coathangers. Didn’t you ever see the signs and pins with coat hangers on them with the words “never again”? I am old enough to remember when the abortion movement was getting started and believe me, coat hangers was all we heard about. It had tremendous emotional appeal just like the pictures of abused children who were going to be “saved” by abortion. The fact that no research supported the claim that abortion would end child abuse was beside the point.
Believe me Laura, abortion advocates, that’s what they were called back then, played the coathanger and child abuse angle for all it was worth.
Believe me Laura, abortion advocates, that’s what they were called back then, played the coathanger and child abuse angle for all it was worth.
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…And yet there’s no mention of coathangers anywhere in the Roe v. Wade decision.
Human rights and personal liberty have always been the foundation of the pro-choice movement.
Eh, I think the only person to blame in this situation is the nurse practitioner who continued with the procedure after noticing that the girl had a vaginal infection. She should have noticed it and stopped the procedure immediately rather than continuing.
Do you think Geri Santoro was a moron??
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I’m sure that Geri Santoro would have much preferred an abortion that would have saved her, not one that killed her.
Larua,
The same could be said for Ms. Goode.
Mary,
No doubt with the coat hanger deal. That has been touted as their mantra since I can remember.
Aren’t they still carrying those things around at their rally’s and marches???
Just got my answer.
Laura,
You might want to check out this site. It is from the so-called march for women’s lives held in 2004. Clearly shows Whoopi swinging around not one but two coat hangers.
“Actor Whoopi Goldberg held up wire coat hangers, a symbol of women’s lives lost due to illegal abortions. On the left is Cybill Shepherd and on the right is Kathleen Turner.”
http://www.now.org/history/slideshows/march2004/
I wonder next year if Whoopi will have the guts to start swinging around lumanaria sticks, or the bloody rusted tools they found in the clinic in New Jersey.
Just a thought.
Laura,
Whatever was in Roe v Wade, the coathanger and child abuse were played for all they were worth for their emotional appeal and the coathanger is still seen on signs today.
Rae,
You’re absolutely right.
Rae,
Thank you!
Eh, I think the only person to blame in this situation is the nurse practitioner who continued with the procedure after noticing that the girl had a vaginal infection. She should have noticed it and stopped the procedure immediately rather than continuing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it was something as benign as a simple as a yeast infection, the apres-abortion antibiotics would have cleared it up. (Mt sister and my boss tell me that they got a yeast infection everytime they got pregnant. It has something to do with the wierd suppressed immunity thing that happens with conception.)
I don’t think that any medical professional would have proceeded if there was was evidence of staph, strep, or even a mild fever. I think an STD panel is run beforehand. I know that very few gyno procedures are performed during an active herpes outbreak.
Laura,
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but a yeast infection is almost always very easy to determine by sight. It looks much different than the description that the nurse practioner gave in her testimony.
Posted by: Laura at June 23, 2007 06:04 PM
“I don’t think that any medical professional would have proceeded if there was was evidence of staph, strep, or even a mild fever.”
The nurse practioner stated she did. So she did. It will be interesting to find out why she didn’t run a test to see what type of infection the Ms. Goode had and why she made the decision to proceed.
Laura,
If there was any sign of infection it should have been cultured to determine exactly what kind of pathogen it was and treated before any cervical dilatation was done. I would never consider any pathogen as “benign” in such an environment as the pregnant uterus and one should make no assumptions of any kind as to what pathogen you are dealing with.
Yes, pregnant women do get yeast infections, they also swim and sit in bathtubs, but the uterus is protected by the sealed cervix.
Whatever was in Roe v Wade, the coathanger and child abuse were played for all they were worth for their emotional appeal and the coathanger is still seen on signs today.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah, well , I see a lot of those pro-lifers wave crucifixes around for emotional appeal.
C’mon! It’s been 2000 years! It’s time to let it go and forget it!
“During the initial exam, a “nurse practitioner, K. Sorenson,” found an “odiferous creamy-colored discharge” indicative of a bacterial infection, according to the lawsuit.”
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Gee, that sounds just like the two yeast infections I’ve had. (Both were due to taking antibiotics.)
Yeast infections are fungal infections, so antibiotics will not cure them. Antibiotics would be needed to eradicate a staph infection though, for example.
Usually yeast infections are recognized by a “cottage-cheese” like, clumpy discharge (sorry to get sort of graphic); however a culture has to be done to determine the true cause, b/c symptoms are a little different person to person.
Sandy and Laura,
The nurse practitioner cannot safely make assumptions as to what kind of pathogen is involved by sight alone. There’s also the possiblity of there being other pathogens present. Until the infection is cultured and treated, I would leave that cervix well enough alone! From the severity and rapid onset of Ms.Goode’s symptoms, I suspect that nurse practitioner made a very wrong assumption.
If it was a yeast infection, the antibiotics could make it worse, I’d think.
Still, you can have an idea of the nature of the infection via examination and use cultures to back up your findings. (for example yeast infections smell like bread (yeasty?) and bacterial infections usually smell like rotting fish).
From the severity and rapid onset of Ms.Goode’s symptoms, I suspect that nurse practitioner made a very wrong assumption.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Staph infections can kill you inside of 36 hours. Her infection didn’t turn dire for almost two weeks.
I have to believe that she had a simple yeast infection, then escalated into something NASTY when she left that mess in herself for two weeks. She was in no obvious crisis and seemed mentally stable enough to refuse treatment.
I think Erica Goode was a prolifer.
The local prolife zealots probably talked her into martyring herself in an effort to further demonize abortion providers: by sacrificing herself she could potential shut-down the clinic. She probably got the vaginal infection from her minister too… oh wait… no… christian leaders like little boys. Almost forgot.
Laura,
Whatever the pathogen was, she never should have had any laminaria put into her, and her cervix dilatated, until the source of the infection was diagnosed and treated. According to the article I read she was disoriented and confused upon arrival at the hospital, which means she was incompetent to make decisions concerning her care. I have been involved in the care of patients who were considered incompetent and they were examined and treated whether they wanted to be or not. Had the doctors performed a pelvic exam as they certainly should have done when they discovered she was pregnant, she might well be alive today.
Cameron,
Your insight is amazing.
Cameron, sick as usual. Laura, I meant that I can look @ that photo without gagging. Please stop exploiting these women pro choicers. Their families don’t appreciate it either. LET IT GO!!!
Don’t expect any outcry from NOW and NARAL. These are the very organizations that are allowing women to be molested, raped, and stalked by abortionists. They don’t give a hoot about women. I am really shocked and surprised at the lack of outrage from the women here. I am angry at these abortionists. I don’t give a rat’s a$$ how sweet they were while performing your abortion. They think women are scum. They think we are tramps. Get mad girls!!
Cameron,
What hallucinogen are you on tonight?
Couldn’t get a date huh?
Yeast infections are fungal infections, so antibiotics will not cure them.
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Not true.
We use fluconazole and metronidazole on all kinds of yeast and fungal infections. Works like a charm. (I can’t remember the brand name for people fluconazole, but it’s used for vaginal yeast infections.)
Diflucan/fluconazole is an antifungal. As far as I am aware of, antibiotics target bacteria, though I have no doubt antibiotic is commonly used to encompass all kinds of antimicrobials.
metronidazole is an antibiotic, but I’ve only seen and heard its use in bacterial vaginosis and NOT yeast infections. If you have a source to back it up though, I’d like to see it.
Sandy, Thank you for that above link. Whoopi Goldberg is such a bum! She tells a story to everyone about how she gave herself a coat hanger abortion in the middle of Central Park at the age of 14. I discussed this with Amanda. It seems very untruthful. Whoopi, are you lying to us to help your side? I guess so. Truth is Whoopi has had 3 legal abortions. Cybill Shepard has had one too. So did what’s her face from ‘Judging Amy’ Each and every last one of them could afford to adopt. Can anyone say SELFISH??!!!
I’ll answer the above question. Do you think Geri Santoro was a moron? Without a doubt, and so was her stupid boyfriend!
If I told someone that I was going to allow a friend of mine, who had no knowledge about medicine, to perform an appendectomy on me, wouldn’t you think I was a moron?? Sandy, I see you asked the ?, but I just couldn’t resist. No anesthesia, no sterile instruments, no doctors. Ah, let me give him a kitchen knife and let him go to town. I’d question her[ Santoro’s] mental stability as well as his.
Laura says that privacy is the cornerstone for the pro choice movement…….and that is exactly why pedophiles, perpetrators and rapists LOVE it!!! Get it???
heather4skin,
Pull your empty head out of your feel-good mud. Pedophiles like “adolescent” children, which, being adolescent, don’t get pregnant and hence don
Cameron,
I think your head is stuck in the mud. If you check the dictionary, an adolescent is someone who has reached puberty but not full maturity and may be capable of becoming pregnant. A six year old child is not an adolescent. Ask your minister about it.
Crazy Cameron, why don’t you take a Xanax! A 12 year old can most certainly become pregnant by a pedophile! I don’t have a minister. Of course you could care less about child predators. You are a pro choice man. Who LOVES abortion? IRRESPONSIBLE MEN! I guess we have to go back to lesson #1.
Why is it that everytime the word bigotry comes up on this site it is always used to infer that Christians are so bigoted.
Why is it then that there is so much bigotry against Christians on this site??
Cameron,
Why do you have to be so mean-sprited?
Elaina must have been busy with her gal pals last night so you decided to take out your lonely frustrations at the rest of the world.
You are such a man-child.
Hi Sandy and Mary.
Sandy, he has a split personality.
Cameron,
Silly boy…..
Hi jasper
Hi Heather4life. Always great to hear from and talk to you.
Contradictory Cameron, I thought you wanted to help out minorities. Did you ever take my advice and Google abortionist Edward Allred? I doubt you did. The truth would curl your toes. Go and see how he wants to abort blacks, Hispanics, and Mexicans. FYI, he hates minorities.
Thanks Mary. my computer was down for a week.
Hi Heather and Mary,
Hope your doing well.
Thanks Jasper. I’m doing fine, thank you. Will be scuba diving this week and hopefully this weekend too. Great sport and great fun. I was past the age of *mumble*, when I started, but better late than never!!
Laura says that privacy is the cornerstone for the pro choice movement…….and that is exactly why pedophiles, perpetrators and rapists LOVE it!!! Get it???
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I’ve never heard of a single criminal conviction or civil sttlement against Planned Parenthood for aiding pedophiles.
I can list many convictions against the Catholic Church, Mormon cults, and Republican party members for sexual crimes against children.
Shut them DOWN!
Heather4skin,
Pedophiles love prepubescents…. which don’t get pregnant… and require no abortions. Ephebophiles love teens. Pedophiles like churches, where the foolish christians will trust them with their children simply for brandishing a bible. Pedophile’s don’t love abortion clinics because it means fewer sexual opportunities for them. I suspect half of the prolife movement is in fact pedophiles. Ephebophiles love stupid parents, and their pregnant teenage girl friends hate people like you telling them what to do.
“Pedophiles like churches, where the foolish christians will trust them with their children simply for brandishing a bible”
It’s important to note Cam that ~ 90% of the scandels in the church were a result of “homosexual” acts against kids in post adolescent age 14-17 years.
“I suspect half of the prolife movement is in fact pedophiles.”
You sicko!
Can’t find anything regarding “edward allred”
you should try googling Sean Fortune, or Brendan Smyth, or Cardinal Connell, or John Geoghan, etc…. Then ask yourself why your christian leaders are all about saving babies.
Hey Cam,
Here you go, they call him “Fast Eddie”
Edward “Fast Eddie” Allred is credited by friend and foe alike as having created the “assembly-line abortion.” One supporter reported that “Allred has done for abortion what Ray Kroc did for hamburgers.” Allred owns and operates the world’s largest chain of for-profit abortion mills, killing thousands of children annually and maiming and killing an unknown number of women.
http://prayabort.faithweb.com/allred.html
“Why is it then that there is so much bigotry against Christians on this site??”
Bigotry of bigots isn’t bigotry. It’s justice.
“Why do you have to be so mean-sprited?”
Why do you all keep saying such foolish things and attempting to cast everyone outside of the prolife circle jerk as subhuman? It’s like you all go to the lowest common denominator as a matter of prious principle, then take it all personally when we laugh at you about it.
well if that ain’t the pot calling the kettle black!
stupid, selfish, irresponsible, arrogant jerk
Of course Cameron would consider his bigotry to be of a better quality than the bigotry he condemns in others.
Ah.. he owns clinics. I see. I think he’s a hero, saving thousands of mothers from unwanted pregnancy. Where as pre roe v wade you all would’ve just shuttled them off to the forced gestation mills to avoid emberrasing the family.
BTW… he’s a republican.
He’s Republican? So what?
hey i’ll take forcing gestation on women (which is stupid cause that isn’t what it is) over forcing babies to die.
Sexnmy5kids,
There you go… let your true colors shine!!
“hey i’ll take forcing gestation on women (which is stupid cause that isn’t what it is) over forcing babies to die.”
Really? Locking-up pregnant teens in a convent and taking their babies away upon birth is… what exactly??
Anyhow, we already knew that you value the unborn more than the women gestating them.
“Anyhow, we already knew that you value the unborn more than the women gestating them.”
Com’on Cam, we value both. Abortion never helps the mother to be at all.
Leave it up to Cam to praise Fast Eddie.
More on Fast Eddie, he even killed a mother of five after cuting her curvix so bad. way to go Cam!
http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/weekly/aa011003a.htm
It doesn’t seem Allred has much value for the women “gestating them” either, especially if they’re non-white.
“Sexnmy5kids”
my husband like that! :)
“There you go… let your true colors shine!!”
Every once in awhile I like to stoop to your level Cam. and give you a little of your own medicine. Don’t worry, I won’t visit that floor for while again.
“Sexnmy5kids”
My husband liked that! :)
“There you go… let your true colors shine!!”
Every once in awhile I like to stoop to your level. Just enjoy giving you a little of your own medicine sometimes, purely for my own enjoyment. Don’t worry, I won’t visit your floor for awhile again.
Good AM all. I had to go to bed last night. -worked all day and was sooo tired. I just want to say that I see Cameron can’t debate his way out of a paper bag. He is not interested in facts. He is interested in stupidity. BTW, this is a pro life web site. Cameron, if you want to talk about corrupt priests and churches, go to a site like that. We have pulled up facts and given you info. You continue to ignore FACTS! The majority of pro choicers do. I will LMAO the day abortion becomes criminal. You have to resort to name calling because you know we’re right.
Cam, I took a full day about 6 months ago and thoroughly researched Edward Allred. I found a lot. Do the same one of these days.
Heather4skin
What facts would those be.. that pedophiles “love” abortion clinics? Perhaps the fetus pain thing? Maybe the breast cancer link?
Fact; you employ and embrace logical fallacies. Fact; more women die delivering babies because of incompetence than die of abortionist incompetence. Fact; anti-choice doesn’t have ethical leg to stand on, so logical falacies, such as hyperbole demonization and conflating individual cases with overal practices, are your only tool. Fact; fortunately, most people aren’t that stupid, and they see through the anti-choice ruse. Fact; for most people, whether or not they believe a fact has more to do with their perceptions of the authority despensing it being trustworthy or not rather than exploring the fact itself, so, as anti-choice crowd continues to employ lies and logical fallacies, people will eventually stop trusting them, no matter the merit of the alternative.
Wow Cameron,
Still on a bender? You shoud probably try to sober up. It is Monday morning.
Sorry you’re still frustrated. Don’t worry. I’m sure Elaina will come back to you.
Why don’t you send her a text message right now and let her know about all the crap you’ve spewn this morning. I am sure she will be so excited she will hop on her broom and fly over to see you.
Cameron thinks “Fast Eddie” is a hero… what else needs to be said??
Sandy,
You’re not armed for a battle of wits, so you might want to leave the insults to the people who aren’t mentally qualified for handicapped parking.
Careless Cameron, would you refer a black woman to Edward Allred’s abortion clinic?… Never mind. I already know the answer. Cameron, Walgreens called. Your meds are ready.
Cam, do you like it when people sink to your level like I just did? LMAO!!
Awesome jabto the right Heather!
Heather4skin,
I’m still waiting for those facts.
Like facts are really going to persuade Cameron… like he always ignores facts when we’ve proven over and over that abortion takes a human life, He just filibusters around the issue never really explaining where women got the right to kill their own babies…
That’s easy jasper,
Nobody has a right to life, such that they can take someone else’s unvolunteered body, or parts of it, to facilitate their life.
The onus of “proof” is on those would overturn this universally recognized precedence and advance that a fetus has this right to the unvolunteered biology when nobody else does. The onus is you to justify compulsory gestation, not on us to justify killing.
Can you make a case for woman less than fetus, or fetus greater than human? So far, all I’ve heard are loaded and judgmental is-ought fallacies absent any cognitive back bone or supporting facts. You know, like the fact that nobody on earth really considers the early fetus, at least, a member of society.
Here is a right hook. Coat hanger Cameron, why don’t you just go to a pro choice ralley and join Whoopi,Jenn Aniston, Sue Sarandon, Ed Asner, Helen Hunt, Kat Turner, Lisa Gay Hamilton, etc. etc. Be sure to take your coat hanger!
Cam,
I disagree with your premise that the fetus is taking the woman’s “unvolunteered” body part, since she and her husband put the fetus there, so it was not unvolunteered. When a woman has sex there is a risk that human life will be created. Once created, nobody, unless the womans life could be lost, has the right to take that life.
jasper, it’s just that cut and dry. Why the CHOICE crowd wants to twist it and turn it is beyond me. The facts remain the same. Abortion is murder.
Cameron also can’t explain where an abortionist ever got the right to kill another human being. After they kill about 19 children a day, they just jump into their Lexuses and Jags and go home.
LOL! Cameron says Sandy is not armed for the battle of the wits. Did you mean a battle againsy the nit wits?
Heather,
It’s because Abortion is the liberals holiest sacrament.