The 20 most influential conservatives?
This morning I complimented the British press, and this evening I must say they’re crackers.
On November 3 London’s Telegraph published “The most influential US conservatives.”
And topping the list of 100?
Rudy Giuliani.
That’s right. Crazy.
Here’s their top 20….
1. Rudy Giuliani
2. General David Petraeus
3. Matt Drudge
4. Newt Gingrich
5. Rush Limbaugh
6. Dick Cheney
7. Robert Gates (Defense Secretary)
8. John Roberts
9. John McCain
10. Mitt Romney
11. Mike Huckabee
12. Condoleezza Rice
13. John Bolton
14. Paul Gigot (Wall Street Journal editorial page editor)
15. Laura Ingraham
16. Haley Barbour
17. Frank Luntz (pollster and strategist)
18. Glenn Beck
19. Mike Pence
20. Ed Gillespie
What do you think of the list? Do you see anyone missing? Anyone there who shouldn’t be? Who would be your pick for most influential conservative? I’ll name mine tomorrow. Here’s the rest of the Telegraph’s list.
And I might as well list who they consider our top 20 most influential liberals:
1. Bill Clinton
2. Al Gore
3. Mark Penn (Hillary’s chief advisor)
4. Hillary Clinton
5. Nancy Pelosi
6. Barack Obama
7. Michael Moore
8. Arnold Schwarzenegger
9. Oprah Winfrey
10. Evan Bayh
11. John Podesta (President, Centre for American Progress)
12. Markos Moulitsas Zuniga (founder, Daily Kos)
13. Rahm Emanuel
14. Jim Webb
15. George Soros
16. Arianna Huffington
17. Donna Brazile
18. Richard Holbrooke (Hillary advisor)
19. Elizabeth Edwards
20. Joan Blades and Wes Boyd (founders of MoveOn.org)
Same questions apply.
Warrior. The list of most influential conservatives is missing Warrior.
Why is it hilarious that oft-divorced, hilbilly heroin addict, Viagra-smuggling Rush Limbaugh makes the list of top Conservatives, and George Bush doesn’t?
By the way, the list of most-influencial liberals sounds like the guest list for the best dinner party EVER!
Even if you lean Conservative, how much fun would it be to get into spirited dinner table debate with Bill Clinton, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Moore, Aaaaaaahnolt, and Arianna Huffington?
The Liberal list is missing Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, and Keith Olbermann. Perhaps Rachael Maddow.
Laura,
I find it hilarious that an adulter, intern skirt chaser, right-wing conspiracy blamer, perjurer, won’t take out UBL when he had the chance – wait 3 chances, intelligence killing, smoke screen wielding, king of pardoning criminals, makes the top of the liberal list. But then he is what liberals are all about – themselves. They are the ultimate it’s all about me people.
I would say that Oprah would be interesting, at least she practices what she preaches.
Didn’t Schwarzenegger run as a Republican though? Hmm..I mean I know he totally swung the other way cause well..it is California..but I thought he RAN as a republican. Maybe I’ll look this up but I just thought I would ask.
And Oprah. not gonna lie…I wish I could get on one of her “My Favorite Things” shows…or the ones with Dr.Oz…I like when he shows all the gross stuff like fat or intestines..haha I know..I’m kinda weird.
Laura-
I’m with you! On everything! I’m actually doing a paper on Colbert’s influence in popular culture. For a start, his Correspondent’s dinner speech should put him at least around the Oprah Winfrey area. Jon Stewart has been around for a long time and his show has been a good political forum, so why isn’t he on there?
I’m pleasantly surprised that Coulter isn’t on there. Or O’Reilly. Though I’d be happier if Limbaugh was replaced with O’Reilly, because O’Reilly has a sense of humor and is less satan-esque.
Why would someone against capital punishment be “all about themselves”?
I’m curious as to how that is possible, Tara.
I’m also curious how agreeing with capital punishment isn’t pro-death.
Hey PIP! Actually, O-Reily is a registered independent. I know most people talk about how conservative he is, but I don’t know, I just started watching him a couple months ago, and it seems to me that while he does have many conservative leanings, he does try to be fair. Plus he also has some liberal views on certain issues. God love you, PIP.
Hi Bobby!
Yes, he is registered “independent,” or so he says (although evidence seems to prove otherwise). But yes he is more “fair” than most pundits, but conservative is pretty much the standard. I don’t think it can be argued any other way.
No list of influential conservatives can be complete if it doesn’t include Richard Mellon Scaife.
Laura: ” Keith Olbermann. Perhaps Rachael Maddow. is missing”
Laura, they have those 2 on the most insane list.
Tara, 8:59
You forgot to mention sex offender as well. Clinton has been accused of everything from exposing himself, aka flashing, to rape.
Laura, 8:23pm
You shock me. I always thought liberals were such bastions of tolerance in these matters. Divorced 3 times? Do you have any issue with Clinton’s track record? He makes Rush look like a monk. Hillbilly? Some people might consider that stereotyping and a slur. A big liberal no-no. Anyway, Rush is from Missouri. Heroin abuse? Lots of Americans, myself included, are abusing heroin then since many of our pain relievers are derived from it. He got hooked on pain pills and yes was illegally obtaining them because of his addiction. Not unusual behavior for an addict. He also got treatment. When liberals do the same thing, and I can name a few, why, they are so open and honest, yeah after they got caught or arrested for DUI. They got treatment! They conquered their addiction! A visit to the Betty Ford center is a status symbol.
I found it ironic that while actor Robin Williams ridiculed Rush, Williams himself wound up in alcohol rehab shortly after. Of course, no one had any issue with that.
I think it’s funny that Elizabeth Edwards is on the list and hubby John is not!
Maybe she should be the one running?
I think it’s funny that Pat Robertson is endorsing Rudy.
Mary, just because someone is pro abortion doesn’t make them liberal. I am liberal but against abortion. There are people who are pro abortion, pro death penalty, and pro war and against social spending. Look closely at the comments even here. Arguing that taxpayers save money because abortion means less money will need to be spent for indigent social services is conservative thinking especially when compared to those like myself who are willing to spend more on social services but are very against the war in Iraq.
Few are 100% one way or the other. People are individuals.
Just thought this was interesting:
So you want to work for the Clintons?
Just a quick refresher course lest we forget what has happened to many “friends” of the Clintons
1-James McDougal – Clinton ‘s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.
2 -Mary Mahoney – A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown . The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
3- Vince Foster – Former White House counselor and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock ‘s Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
4- Ron Brown – Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air Traffic controller committed suicide.
5- C. Victor Raiser II- Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992
6-Paul Tulley – Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a “Dear friend and trusted advisor”.
7-Ed Willey – Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
8-Jerry Parks -Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock . Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock . Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton . He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
9-James Bunch – Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas
10-James Wilson – Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.
11-Kathy Ferguson- Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
12-Bill Shelton – Arkansas State Trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiance, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiance.
13-Gandy Baugh – Attorney for Clinton ‘s friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
14-Florence Martin – Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
15- Suzanne Coleman – Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
16-Paula Grober – Clinton ‘s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
17-Danny Casolaro – Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.
18- Paul Wilcher – Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.
19-Jon Parnell Walker – Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington , Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.
20-Barbara Wise – Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
21-Charles Meissner -Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
22-Dr. Stanley Heard – Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton ‘s advisory council personally treated Clinton ‘s mother, stepfather and brother.
23-Barry Seal -Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas , death was no accident.
24-Johnny Lawhorn Jr. – Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.
25-Stanley Huggins – Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
26- Hershell Friday – Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.
27-Kevin Ives & Don Henry – Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:
28-Keith Coney – Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.
29-Keith McMaskle – Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
30-Gregory Collins – Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
31-Jeff Rhodes – He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.
33-James Milan – Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to “natural causes”.
34-Jordan Kettleson – Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.
35-Richard Winters – A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.
THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
36 -Major William S. Barkley Jr.
37-Captain Scott J . Reynolds
38-Sgt. Brian Hanley
39-Sgt. Tim Sabel
40-Major General William Robertson
41-Col. William Densberger
42-Col. Robert Kelly
43-Spec. Gary Rhodes
44-Steve Willis
45-Robert Williams
46-Conway LeBleu
47-Todd McKeehan
Quite an impressive list! Pass this on. Let the public become aware of what happens to friends of the Clinton ‘s
HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT? SURELY YOU JEST !!
So you want to work for the Clintons?
Just a quick refresher course lest we forget what has happened to many “friends” of the Clintons
1-James McDougal – Clinton ‘s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.
2 -Mary Mahoney – A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown . The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
3- Vince Foster – Former White House counselor and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock ‘s Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
4- Ron Brown – Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air Traffic controller committed suicide.
5- C. Victor Raiser II- Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992
6-Paul Tulley – Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a “Dear friend and trusted advisor”.
7-Ed Willey – Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
8-Jerry Parks -Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock . Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock . Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton . He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
9-James Bunch – Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas
10-James Wilson – Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.
11-Kathy Ferguson- Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
12-Bill Shelton – Arkansas State Trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiance, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiance.
13-Gandy Baugh – Attorney for Clinton ‘s friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
14-Florence Martin – Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
15- Suzanne Coleman – Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
16-Paula Grober – Clinton ‘s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
17-Danny Casolaro – Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.
18- Paul Wilcher – Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.
19-Jon Parnell Walker – Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington , Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.
20-Barbara Wise – Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
21-Charles Meissner -Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
22-Dr. Stanley Heard – Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton ‘s advisory council personally treated Clinton ‘s mother, stepfather and brother.
23-Barry Seal -Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas , death was no accident.
24-Johnny Lawhorn Jr. – Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.
25-Stanley Huggins – Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
26- Hershell Friday – Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.
27-Kevin Ives & Don Henry – Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:
28-Keith Coney – Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.
29-Keith McMaskle – Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
30-Gregory Collins – Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
31-Jeff Rhodes – He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.
33-James Milan – Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to “natural causes”.
34-Jordan Kettleson – Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.
35-Richard Winters – A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.
THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
36 -Major William S. Barkley Jr.
37-Captain Scott J . Reynolds
38-Sgt. Brian Hanley
39-Sgt. Tim Sabel
40-Major General William Robertson
41-Col. William Densberger
42-Col. Robert Kelly
43-Spec. Gary Rhodes
44-Steve Willis
45-Robert Williams
46-Conway LeBleu
47-Todd McKeehan
Quite an impressive list! Pass this on. Let the public become aware of what happens to friends of the Clinton ‘s
HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT? SURELY YOU JEST !!
So you want to work for the Clintons?
Just a quick refresher course lest we forget what has happened to many “friends” of the Clintons
1-James McDougal – Clinton ‘s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.
2 -Mary Mahoney – A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown . The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
3- Vince Foster – Former White House counselor and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock ‘s Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
4- Ron Brown – Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air Traffic controller committed suicide.
5- C. Victor Raiser II- Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992
6-Paul Tulley – Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a “Dear friend and trusted advisor”.
7-Ed Willey – Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
8-Jerry Parks -Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock . Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock . Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton . He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
9-James Bunch – Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas
10-James Wilson – Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.
11-Kathy Ferguson- Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
12-Bill Shelton – Arkansas State Trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiance, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiance.
13-Gandy Baugh – Attorney for Clinton ‘s friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
14-Florence Martin – Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
15- Suzanne Coleman – Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
16-Paula Grober – Clinton ‘s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
17-Danny Casolaro – Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.
18- Paul Wilcher – Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.
19-Jon Parnell Walker – Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington , Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.
20-Barbara Wise – Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
21-Charles Meissner -Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
22-Dr. Stanley Heard – Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton ‘s advisory council personally treated Clinton ‘s mother, stepfather and brother.
23-Barry Seal -Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas , death was no accident.
24-Johnny Lawhorn Jr. – Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.
25-Stanley Huggins – Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
26- Hershell Friday – Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.
27-Kevin Ives & Don Henry – Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:
28-Keith Coney – Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.
29-Keith McMaskle – Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
30-Gregory Collins – Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
31-Jeff Rhodes – He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.
33-James Milan – Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to “natural causes”.
34-Jordan Kettleson – Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.
35-Richard Winters – A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.
THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
36 -Major William S. Barkley Jr.
37-Captain Scott J . Reynolds
38-Sgt. Brian Hanley
39-Sgt. Tim Sabel
40-Major General William Robertson
41-Col. William Densberger
42-Col. Robert Kelly
43-Spec. Gary Rhodes
44-Steve Willis
45-Robert Williams
46-Conway LeBleu
47-Todd McKeehan
Quite an impressive list! Pass this on. Let the public become aware of what happens to friends of the Clinton ‘s
HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT? SURELY YOU JEST !!
Hippie,
I am aware that viewpoints vary. Mine certainly do as you’ve probably noticed.
Its been my impression that Laura is liberal, and not solely because of where she stands on abortion. I have no issue with that, it is a free country.
Also, how people define themselves and what is conservative and liberal is another factor. I’m not all that certain how I define myself. For instance, while some view welfare as causing family breakdown, I see it as resulting from family breakdown. I have argued with a few conservatives on this.
In fact, the argument that social services will spend less because of abortion was for a long time, and remains the argument of abortion supporters.
While one makes an issue of Rush’s three divorces, nothing is said of Bill’s philandering and sexual abuse of women.
Liberals(largely the Hollywood crowd) who are drug and alcohol addicted are viewed as courageous when they acknowlege a habit and get treatment. These same people, i.e. Robin Williams, will ridicule Rush.
The use of the term Hillbilly is seen by many as a slur and is certainly a stereotype. Yet I hear liberals, many of whom preach about tolerance, using such terms as “hillbilly” “redneck”, and “trailer trash”. I believe it was James Carville, a Clinton cronie, who when speaking of Paula Jones, said that when one drags $5.00 through a trailer court who knows what one will get. I don’t recall a word of outrage from the liberal community over this bigoted, elitist comment. Now, just imagine the reaction if a conservative asked what one would come up with after dragging $5.00 through a minority community.
That’s just the point I was trying to make Hippie. Tolerance is definitely not a two way street. You definitely have a point though that one cannot make judgments based on someone’s stand on abortion. If I am wrong about Laura, I stand corrected and apologize.
Sandy,
Whew! Guess I’ll have to tell the Clintons what to do with their job offer!
Mary, “hillbilly heroin” is the street term for oxycontin. I myself have purchased controlled substances behind a Denny’s with a handful of cash, and I can assure you it wasn’t for theraputic reasons.
THIS is why Rush took it in the shorts:
“What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we’re not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too.
…We are becoming too tolerant as a society, folks, especially of crime, in too many parts of the country…. This country certainly appears to be tolerant, forgive and forget. I mean, you know as well as I do, you go out and commit the worst murder in the world and you just say you’re sorry, people go, “Oh, OK. A little contrition.”… People say, “I feel better. He said he’s sorry for it.” We’re becoming too tolerant, folks.”
–Rush Limbaugh TV show (10/5/95)
Laura,
How well I remember. Also, thank you for the clarification on the term Hillbilly Heroin. While there are those who will take offense at that term, its not one you concocted. My apologies. Also, I never thought Rush was buying these drugs for therapeutic reasons, anymore than the Hollywood elite buy coke for therapeutic reasons.
I’m not convinced that’s the only reason Rush “took it in the shorts”, though. I don’t recall Robin Williams taking it “in the shorts” for ridiculing Rush and then going to alcohol rehab himself, or Jesse Jackson “taking it in the shorts” for showing up as Clinton’s “religious adviser” with his pregnant mistress in tow. Imagine if that had been Jerry Falwell.
There is more than enough hypocrisy, some of it is conveniently overlooked, some of it is made quite an issue of, depending on the person(s) involved.
Although I myself wince at many a hollywood liberal, I got the impression that Rush is ridiculed because he was so hypocritical about the issue.
Laura, thanks for the quote, that is what I was thinking of.
In case it wasn’t already completely obvious to people with some degree of sanity left, the “Clinton bodycount” list is an old, frequently de-bunked hoax.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp
PIP,
I don’t dispute that Rush was hypocritical, but no one made an issue of the hypocrisy of Robin Williams ridiculing Rush, then ending up in rehab himself. I think it every bit as hypocritical that Robin Williams would ridicule a man for his drug addiction, then himself wind up in rehab. And do you honestly think Jerry Falwell would have been treated with the same deference as Jesse Jackson had he shown up with a pregnant mistress? I can give any number of examples where the “seperation of church and state” has been overlooked where Jackson is concerned, as well as one of his ethnic slurs, which was downplayed as well. Or that a conservative could speak of dragging $5.00 through a minority community and who knows what would show up, and expect there would be no reaction, as was the case with Clinton cronie James Carville talking about a trailer court?
That’s my point PIP. Tolerance and “concern” about hypocrisy is highly selective.
I agree both sides have their blind spot.
Rush is just really polarizing though. And kind of an a-hole. And Robin Williams can be endearing. That might be the difference. Not saying its right, but that is probably the perspective.
Per Luara:
“Mary, “hillbilly heroin” is the street term for oxycontin. I myself have purchased controlled substances behind a Denny’s with a handful of cash, and I can assure you it wasn’t for theraputic reasons.”
So Laura,
You buy illegal drugs behind a Denny’s? Just another parallel example of how you don’t think beyond your own selfishness and how people are harmed by your actions which support the illegal drug trade. Did you ever stop to think how many people have been killed or lost their lives in order for you to get your high? Once again you are willing to throw others under the bus so you can selfishly walk away with a 10 minute buzz.
Quite hypocritical I must say. You are all about supporting “legal” abortion. But at the same time you commit acts that are “illegal”
Anyone who has such a sad life that they buy illegal drugs behind a Denny’s just to make themselves feel better is definielty someone who needs help. I was right all along Laura.
1-800-GET-HELP
PIP,
How funny. My take is just the opposite. Robin Williams irritates me no end and I find Rush endearing. I don’t think so much that he is polarizing but that he just goes after sacred cows, such as man made global warming and environmentalism, and gives a different perspective. No one likes their sacred cows called into question or ridiculed. Naturally the MSM despises him, he has given them some serious competition.
What would you say about his endorsement of parents smoking in front of their children?
PIP,
I never heard that one but since parents do it and always have, I don’t think it much matters what Rush endorses. My father did and I’m as healthy as an ox, and don’t smoke. I can think of far worse things parents can do, and do, in front of their children. You have to be careful of what the media reports Rush saying.
I know he has pointed to studies, as have others, that second hand smoke is not the danger it is made out to be and that is what his comment may have been in reference to.
Actually, I heard it on the radio a month or so ago. Straight from the horses mouth. He said it was perfectly fine for parents to smoke in front of their children including the line “my parents smoked and look at me!” I gotta admit it did make me laugh.
Here is a link:
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422
Pay attention to this one in particular:
Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 430 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually.
And honestly, given what we know now about cigarettes, I can’t imagine how someone can delude themselves in believing that smoking in front of children is harmless. I’ve seen someone change their baby’s diapers with a cigarette in one hand. Made me want to throw up.
PIP,
Like manmade global warming, the dangers of second hand smoke are a given to most people, but there are differing opinions and studies concerning the effects of second hand smoke. There are those who will believe the climate change is manmade though there are studies that indicate differently. Rush believes that second hand smoke is not as harmful as we’ve been led to believe, and there are studies that back him up.
Whatever Rush thinks, parents always have and will continue to smoke in front of their children.
I personally would like to review the studies on both sides of the issue before coming to any conclusions. Oh, and I think climate change being caused by mankind is a crock.
Please send me those studies so I can “study” them.
“Oh, and I think climate change being caused by mankind is a crock.”
Oh, yeah, well, you would! ;)
“Whatever Rush thinks, parents always have and will continue to smoke in front of their children.”
Yeah they will, but it is not a good freaking idea, and if they really care for their children they shouldn’t–this should be strongly suggested. For example, I know a couple who has two young kids who smoke and they smoke in their bedroom and not around their children. It’s not like we are making them quit smoking or anything.
The fact that Rush is saying that it’s perfectly okay, and whats more, is endorsing and promoting it, is just so sad to me. It’s past marginally delusional just onto crazy. I guess to him siding with big tobacco is “fair” (read: against scientific consensus and against what I want to do), as well as his siding with big oil. But you know, that is what you can expect from him. Nonsense.
If you shouldn’t smoke while pregnant, why is it okay to smoke around babies? Why the inconsistency? Is it somehow fundamentally different?
PIP,
I haven’t seen these studies, I’m only saying Rush has mentioned them and I would also be interested in reading them. I was just telling you where he is coming from. I have heard second hand smoke disputed by other people besides Rush, but I can’t say I have ever looked into it personally. I suppose we could google and find them.
As for manmade global warming. PIP, 30 years ago we were warned of an impending ice age. These geniuses can’t even predict the weather for the rest of the week, much less the climate 30 years from now. I saw something quite interesting concerning the sun. There can be minor variations in the earth/sun orbit, which is not always exact, and this can result in climate variation.
The climate has changed over the centuries time and again. There was a warming trend I believe in the 13th century. People loved it. They were growing grapes in England. It was immediately followed by a mini ice age.
Volcanoes have been spewing pollution into the atmosphere since creation and continue to do so. Every breathing creature on this planet expells carbon dioxide and has done so since creation. The poor cows are getting a bum rap in the methane expulsion department. What about elephants? Climate is so complex that accurate computer models can’t even be made. Climatologists are in disagreement with each other. That PIP is why I think its a crock.
PIP,
I don’t condone smoking. I don’t like to be around it. Rush can have whatever opinion he wants of second hand smoke. No one has to agree with him or care.
Pregnant women smoked for years and produced normal babies. That’s why they smoked, they saw no cause for concern. However, I would not encourage any pregnant woman to do so.
“I haven’t seen these studies, I’m only saying Rush has mentioned them and I would also be interested in reading them. I was just telling you where he is coming from. I have heard second hand smoke disputed by other people besides Rush, but I can’t say I have ever looked into it personally. I suppose we could google and find them.”
After I heard him I had quickly googled it but the main idea I got was that all of these disputed “studies” had a biased link to it, such as a tobacco company. The scientific consensus is clear.
“That PIP is why I think its a crock.”
Well, techincally I think we are in an ice age, but that is besides the point.
We can have our opinions, but there is more than enough evidence to show our energies’ negative impact on the globe. The only people hurt by legislation are the companies. Boo hoo.
About Rush, his statement is in my experience very typical. to say there is “no evidence” is an outright lie. A falsehood. I find it hard to believe someone would take what he says to heart-but they do. People follow him like Hitler in Munich. That was my concern about the smoking. People who take his opinion seriously might actually begin to endanger their child’s health. I’m not sure I’d want that on my conscience.
PIP,
Fine with me. But do you think the studies proving second hand smoke is dangerous may also have a biased link? Like I always advise people, do your own research and draw your own conclusions. You have drawn yours, Rush has drawn his, and I haven’t drawn any at all!
We’re in an ice age? Then let’s hope for some global warming! PIP, I’m a big fan of National Geographic and Discovery and they have had some fascinating information concerning climate. They had a program on sunspots and climate though unfortunately I didn’t catch the whole thing. Don’t ask me what sunspots are, I don’t have a clue. It also said the earth can tilt slightly off its axis, and the earth/sun orbit can also go slightly off course. Both can have an effect on climate and weather patterns. While yes we can effect our environment and should be responsible for its care, that we can effect the climate and the forces of nature is laughable. We haven’t even begun to understand them.
Like I said PIP, I think you and Rush have arrived at two different conclusions. You can believe him or not. I appreciate how he gives the different sides to all issues. Someone has to. I don’t always agree either, but I like to hear another side.
I must disagree that people follow him like Hitler in Munich. I enjoy listening to him. I like getting a different perspective. I may agree or not. I seriously doubt parents will start lighting up in front of their kids because Rush said it was OK. The people I know that do don’t listen to Rush, or were doing it before anyone ever heard of him.
I think you should be far more concerned by people who are turning global warming into a religion where wealthy people atone for their “sin” of excess energy use and luxurious living, which they don’t give up by the way, by buying “carbon credits” from some scam artist and telling the rest of us peasantry to use one sheet of toilet paper. Their leaders are people like Al Gore, who’s credentials as a climatologist are…what?
Al Gore has been working on environmental issues since he started his political career.
Anyway, Mary, the other studies concerning second hand smoke, don’t you think they’d have a little less bias than the people who sell the product? Science is never completely objective, but at least they try to be. The scientific consensus is pretty clear (on both issues).
I do think people follow Rush. They really do, I know people who listen to his program all the time and just believe everything he says. It’s just as bad as only listening to Micheal Moore. And especially when it concerns our children’s welfare, I’m just a little surprised that you seem to be defending him.
Here is the ice age thing on wikipedia-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age
PIP,
As I said, I don’t always agree with him. I said he gives another side on the issues of today, and I want to hear them. Yes there are people who hang on his every word, but that’s not so unusual with celebrities, talk show hosts, or newscasters. There were people devoted to Howard Stern too, who I think is a total degenerate. That doesn’t matter to his devotees.
About the studies, I have not looked at either side to be honest. I wouldn’t always assume a lack of bias on the part of science. Like you, I would have to view both sides and draw my own conclusions.
In fact, there is great debate concerning global warming being manmade. Climatologists and scientists are not all in agreement. The earth may very well be warming, but I believe this is just a natural course of events.
Al Gore may have worked on environmental issues, but he has no credentials as a scientist or climatologist, and I think he only looks foolish discussing something so complex about which he obviously knows little.
PIP 5:05PM
How interesting, thank you.
Mary–
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
I don’t think Al Gore promoted himself as a scientist or a climatologist. He has used other peoples’ data and he has spent his political career on environmental subjects and policy proposals, so I think he’s done his share of studying. He’s not the expert, top opinion but he communicates it. As you can see about debates over stuff here, the scientists themselves aren’t always doing the best job communicating with the masses.
Mary–
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686
I don’t think Al Gore promoted himself as a scientist or a climatologist. He has used other peoples’ data and he has spent his political career on environmental subjects and policy proposals, so I think he’s done his share of studying. He’s not the expert, top opinion but he communicates it. As you can see about debates over stuff here, the scientists themselves aren’t always doing the best job communicating with the masses.
Here is the other link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
Jill, I wish you would not make us do this! I like keeping all my links on the same post!
PIP,
I see your point. Also, thank you for the links. While I’m sure Gore has extensive background, the man is still not an expert in this area and lacks any credentials. He is simply no match for people who are experts in this area. Also, from what I have observed, Gore hasn’t exactly been objective about getting opposing as well as supporting viewpoints. Let’s face it, the man has an agenda. I have not doubt about his sincerity, but that can cloud one’s perspective.
Ironically, tonite I caught the tailend of another National Georgraphic program on the sun. It said its the sun that ultimately controls climate by the energy and radiation it emits, which can vary for reasons unknown. The program said science is only beginning to understand this process. The idea that we can have any control over the climate is to say we can control the sun, the earth/sun orbit, volcanoes(major eruptions have been known to trigger temporary climate changes), ocean currents, and the tilt of the earth axis.
The earth has withstood much over billions of years, and that’s just from the forces of nature including the sun, volcanoes, wind, ice ages, and even asteroid bombardment, not to mention methane blasting dinosaurs. I’m convinced the earth will be here long after we’re gone, thumbing its nose at us.
You may want to keep an eye out for NG and Discovery presentations. They’re very informative and I think will give you another perspective. Then, like I always say, you can draw your own conclusions.
Mary-
It’s not that we are worried about the earth, per se. It’s not like we are saying that the earth will disentigrate or anything like that. We just want to be alive rather than the source of our own destruction, that’s all. Our PLANET has survived massive asteroid strikes, but the DINOSAURS didn’t. Our PLANET may survive our impact, but if it ultimately leads to our loss, the question is why do it? Another reason why we preserve endangered species-it’s not just that animals are cute, and we feel bad for them, or that we feel guilty for doing that to them-it is also GREATLY important for our survival to keep up the diversity of the species, or otherwise many side effects will come up and affect US. Actually our effect on the wildlife is a great example of our responsibility. We know what we need to do, now that we have the technology and foresight. Look what happens when we introduce species-look what happens to our crops and lifestyle. I can’t imagine what would happen if we didn’t try to preserve species and limit hunting.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. I have no doubt that we have much to learn. However an appeal to the unknown for something like this to me seems sort of ridiculous. If scientists now are saying we can do something to help our situation, and we hold out, just because we don’t know everything about everything, it ultimately is to our disadvantage. We aren’t even asking anything too drastic from anyone. Just try to make efficient cars and not decimate our environment. Maybe make a few different lifestyle changes. We don’t have anythign to lose, so honestly I”m very confused at everyone who is so adament about the topic–the only people at a real loss are companies, really. They aren’t particularly warm or fuzzy either, in a variety of ways.
It’s kind of like the smoking thing (the circle of life, eh?). I like the movie “Thank You For Smoking” and I think that people if they want to should be able to keep their habit. However I think there is a point about moderation when it comes to consideration for other people (second hand smoke). I put my biggest bet on people who are concerned about people’s health, as much of an agenda as it is, rather than the people who are concerned about their profit. Same goes for climate change. I am more willing to believe a scientific consensus who have weighed everythign to the best of their knowledge than oil and car companies who are trying their best to cast doubt–so they can keep raking it in.
PIP,
Like you I support sound and sensible environmental policies and species preservation. If anything breaks my heart it is the sight of magnificent animals like bears, elephants, and tigers dancing in tutus or jumping through hoops of fire for human entertainment. In fact, my son will be going into the area of environmental and species protection as he has plans to become a forest ranger. I couldn’t be more pleased and proud.
Quite true about the dinosaurs, but when the cloud of dust it generated cleared up, the earth came back to life, and in fact some species from that era survived.
I am not convinced mankind has any kind of ability to affect the climate, never has and never will. There are just too many forces of nature we are only beginning to understand, if we understand at all. Yet manmade global warming is treated as a “given”, when in fact climatologists and scientists are debating this and are not in universal agreement. Hearing opinions from both sides, reviewing the earth’s history, and yes, watching Discovery and NG, have convinced me that if anything is going on with the climate, its completely out of our control. I just know its cold where I am!
Please, do not apologize for the long post. I am very much enjoying our discussion.
“in fact some species from that era survived”
I wouldn’t say that human beings have the same strong constitution as those that survived. I’m not saying NO life will survive, but ours wouldn’t.
“Yet manmade global warming is treated as a “given”, when in fact climatologists and scientists are debating this and are not in universal agreement. ”
From what I’ve looked at, the debates are the degree of human involvement. I don’t know of a scientific organization who completely denies human involvement whatsoever.
“I just know its cold where I am!”
Global warming is about climate change; this does not mean everywhere on the globe will suddenly turn warmer. The global temperature is what they are talking about, not the climate in Manhatten or London.
PIP,
Please don’t underestimate humans. We’ve survived the ice age, warfare, genocide, the atomic bomb, pesitilence, famine, epidemics, world warfare, and oppression to name just a few. People adapted as needed to new environments. The lives of our ancestors were a brutal struggle for survival, whoever they were and wherever they lived. Contrary to the dictates of political correctness, there were never any people who’s lives were a blissful lovefest.
I can’t name organizations, but I have read and listened to the opinions of opposing climatologists. How does one account for climate changes in the past? What about the forces of nature beyond our comprehension and control? 30 years ago we were entering an ice age that would wipe us out. Now the earth is warming. Honestly PIP, I’m happy just to get the occasionally accurate weather forecast, much less trust anyone to predict the climate 30 years from now.
I think the calculations are based at the rate things are now. The global temperature is pretty constant on a normal basis.
What about the forces of nature? We do our best to adapt.
What about what we’ve done? Try to reverse the effects as much as possible.
What about the climate changes in the past? The concern is that recent figures are beyond the normal fluctuations.
Saying that there might be an involvement or not, but regardless it is happening, and then arguing that we shouldn’t try to do anything…what do you think we are trying to accomplish now?
You know, there are opposing biologists on evolution, too, but any normal person can see they are dissenting from consensus. When it comes to science, the smooth talkers can’t win out. Sure, creationists are good at smooth talking. But does that make them right? Nope. The evidence is on evolution’s side and until they come up with evidence that specifically supports their side, it’s hard to take them seriously. Likewise.
Let’s see some of the stuff the dissenters are pulling out and the counter response, please.
PIP,
I remain convinced that climate change is out of our hands completely. We can do everything to protect our environment, and should, but the forces of nature are completely out of our control and for the most part beyond our understanding.
As for concensus. Being in the minority or being the dissenting voice “crying in the wilderness” does not make one wrong. All too often these were the very people we should have listened to.
Concerning evolution. Again, opposing viewpoints. Keep in mind the evolutionists were at one time the minority and the objects of scorn. They too were dissenting from consensus. One will look at the evidence for evolutions and see one thing, others will beg to differ.
Most of my opinions come from just listening to opposing viewpoints or viewing Discovery and NG. I’ve also read opposing viewpoints. I read something and set it aside. I don’t know what sources to give you PIP, it may involve some research of your own.
I’m also aware of fluctuating weather patterns over the course of my own lifetime. I remember my parents and grandparents commenting on varying weather patterns in the course of their lifetimes as well. Some of them bizarre. I’ve also learned of the earth’s climatic changes over recorded history, some very abrupt and unexpected, as well as extreme.
When man can control the heat and radiation emitted from the sun, the sun/earth orbit, the ocean currents, the volcanoes, and the tilt of the earth axis, then I will believe we can control the climate.
“Being in the minority or being the dissenting voice “crying in the wilderness” does not make one wrong”
It does unless they bring evidence to the contrary. Here, consensus means the general community says, “given all of the evidence, we come to the same conclusion.” If someone says they think the people are wrong, the burden of proof is on them- it is their job to do the convincing. A non-committal statement doesn’t prove anything.
“They too were dissenting from consensus.”
But they had EVIDENCE to their side. Obviously nobody could prove the general theory wrong, could they? All new goals are in a sense dissensions, however the scientific community needs to see some evidence first and then it is accepted. Lamely looking at what we have and just going, “nope, dont’ believe it, but hey, I’ve got my Bible and it’s ‘just a different perspective” aint gonna cut it. By scientific standards alone, any supernatural explanations have to be out of the picture. What alternate explanations of the evidence exist but Goddidit? I would love to hear it, but as yet any dissnters I have heard from always lean that way. Have any thoughts?
“When man can control the heat and radiation emitted from the sun, the sun/earth orbit, the ocean currents, the volcanoes, and the tilt of the earth axis, then I will believe we can control the climate.”
LOL I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
PIP,
I’m saying there are opposing viewpoints out there and we need to hear them out and I believe they must be heard. Consensus or not, and it my opinion there isn’t one, the opponents are experts who present some pretty convincing evidence and arguments. I’ve already given my myriad of reasons why I’m listening to the opposition and taking them very seriously.
You say it depends on the dissenters to prove the consensus wrong, in my opinion that is exactly what they’re doing. You can listen to them and consider the factors I have discussed and draw your own conclusions.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree but these are the factors that control the climate.
Concerning evolution? “Facts” on that have changed in my lifetime as well. I feel there’s plenty of room for intelligent debate and I’m willing to listen to both sides. I think its wrong to have one opinion dominate concerning concerning global warming or evolution. We should be ready and willing to listen to opposing viewpoints in both these areas.
I’m open to evolution and evolutionary change. I also will also consider any evidence against it as well. Do I know for certain where we came from? Frankly, no.
PIP,
I googled “global warming hoax” and came up with a huge selection of articles both supporting and opposing the notion of global warming being manmade, or even existing. I think it will give you a good cross section of opinions.