Media bias re: Denver Planned Parenthood
Earlier today I linked to a My Fox Colorado story on pro-lifers protesting at the home of Ed Kubly of Big R Construction, a subcontractor who is helping build the Denver Planned Parenthood abortion mill.
There was a little snippet in that video of a neighbor who was angry not at Kubly for helping construct an abortuary but at protesters for showing what happens in an abortuary.
Well, My Fox Colorado also posted an uncensored clip of the guy ranting, with reporter John Romero clearly egging the guy on. He encouraged the foment about the pro-life protesters by asking, “Little extreme?” Then he planted, “Ruined your Saturday…” to throw on some timber. Click on image to view the link, which contains foul language, not that pro-life activists haven’t heard it all before:
“There was a little snippet in that video of a neighbor who was angry not at Kubly for helping construct an abortuary but at protesters for showing what happens in an abortuary.”
what jerks. I think 99% of Americans would side with the angry neighbor here.
I think you are wrong Hal. Maybe you and Laura would side with the violent proabort supporter but I would stand shoulder to shoulder with those protesting those who build death camps for children. Those violent proaborts won’t scare me away from my protected rights. Have a Merry Christmas.
notice I didn’t say they should be prohibited from exercising their protected rights. I just said they were jerks for doing so.
A Merry Christmas to you, and everyone!
If working on a Planned Parenthood clinic makes you a babykiller, doesn’t working on a Catholic church make you a child molester?
Maybe that’s the REAL reason there’s still graffiti all over that church. None of the local power-washing firms want to be “pervs by association.”
Maybe people should start protesting around the homes of the protesters.
More twisted logic from Laura. Another view into the mindset of the proaborts.
Hey, I would love protestors in front of my house proclaiming I defend the rights of the most innocent and am against killing babies.
I am always amazed how the proaborts try as they may to defend something that has no defense.
Another very Merry Christmas
Laura, I left you a reply to your snipy comment towards me on the “planned parenthood 2007 in review” thread..please go read it when you get a chance.
Doug, 5:42p, your side doesn’t have enough motivated people to pull together much a protest for a Big Deal, such as at Planned Parenthood Aurora (when you were outnumbered 1000:17), never mind protesting a home, particularly when it gets below 70 degrees or above 80.
I did read it.
Don’t you EVER blather on about living up to your responsibilities and raising a child again. You’ve done neither.
Adding another child to your parent’s family isn’t responsiblity, it’s the selfish act of a spoiled princess. Dumping your finacial burdens on your parents is no different than dumping them on American taxpayers. Don’t rail about women who take responsible action when faced with a pregnancy they can’t afford until you’re able to purchase you’re own self-righteousness, not leech off Mummy and Daddy’s.
Jesus Laura.
That is stepping over the line and going too far.
Things like that (even if they are true, which I dont know if it is or not), you dont say to the person first in front of people and second when you dont know them.
Laura —
If working on a Planned Parenthood clinic makes you a babykiller, doesn’t working on a Catholic church make you a child molester?
Maybe that’s the REAL reason there’s still graffiti all over that church. None of the local power-washing firms want to be “pervs by association.”
LOL
Things like that (even if they are true, which I dont know if it is or not), you dont say to the person first in front of people and second when you dont know them.
Posted by: midnite678 at December 21, 2007 8:08 PM
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Go to the post she referenced. She lives at home, is unemployed, and has her mother and brother cover her daycare needs.
She then turns around and SLAMS other women for not “living up to their responsibilities.”
Does she meet your definition of “adult?”
Getting knocked-up isn’t the hard part of the reproductive process, it’s the 25 years AFTER that that’s hard.
Laura:
Yes, I read her post. At least she is trying to get a degree so she can raise her daughter and not live off of welfare.
She is trying and is lucky her parents are supportive and willing to help her out (daycare is freaking expensive these days).
And as I said earlier, ever it is true, you just dont says things like that to someone, in front of people, and if you dont know all their story.
Also, it doesnt matter if she meets my definition of an “adult” or not. It is not my place to judge people. And as I said above, at least she is trying to make herself better for her and her child.
Laura,
You have never impressed me as an adult, so I don’t know where you come off judging her. Your comments on this board really show you as a miserable, hate-filled lover of death. Spending all your time here as a negative must be a downer — unless the paychecks are good.
Elizabeth, good for you bringing a child into this world and creating a situation to raise it so he or she is a positive in this world. Making sacrifices and surrounding yourself and child with supportive people is a very good choice. I walked in your shoes and the rewards are certainly much more than any hardship now. My now teenager is a joy to all who know her and has a great future ahead. My life is one I’m proud of.
Ignore Laura, she wouldn’t know what real love was if it came up and bit her. She is a troll and best left under the bridge.
She is trying and is lucky her parents are supportive and willing to help her out (daycare is freaking expensive these days).
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SHE IS LUCKY!
Mega-beaucoup lucky-
That being the case, maybe she should stop lecturing other women facing unplanned pregnancies to live up to THEIR responsibilites while she hands her responsibilities over to her parents.
Does the expression “let them eat cake” occur to you?
She’s naver had to live up to the burdens of real life single motherhood. She IS lucky.
Now, this liberal reporter ( what reporter isn’t liberal) should’ve done is asked the neihbor what he thought about the multilated baby on the poster. bum.
That was uncalled for Laura.
Gee Laura, relax a bit. You are on the path to becomming a bitter old lady.
Elizabeth, good for you taking nursing classes. My wife decided on a late career change and is getting close to her nursing degree. I know it isn’t easy and nursing classes have gotten more difficult than they used to be. Add to that raising a child and you have more than a full plate. Hang in there it goes by quickly and the benefits are excellent.
I have five kids, three of them from my first wife are on their own and doing very well and now raising two girls with my current wife. Needless to say we are busy and free time is at a premium but that will change soon. Keep up the good work.
Did I say Merry Christmas Yet? :)
So what if she is lucky? I am glad that she has supportive parents. I am happy for Elizabeth.
Whoa, whoa, whoa…
The ONLY thing my parents do is take the financial burden off of my shoulders UNTIL I have my degree and the career I am pursuing. The parenting aspect of the whole thing is ALL ME. My parents do nothing except my mom watches her when I am at school which totals right now about 8-10 hours a week. And SHE LOVES IT. She loves my daughter and loves spoiling her.
And the amount of work I do around this house for 6 other people besides my daughter, 2 dogs, and a cat FAR makes up for the financial aspect my parents help me out with. I do everybody’s laundry, cook meals, clean up, AND do homework and take care of my daughter’s needs. I go grocery shopping AND help my mom with her work-at-home job she is starting (she is a pampered chef consultant). I DID the responsible thing and I AM LUCKY and more than THANKFUL for everything my parents have helped me with. You have no idea how thankful I am. One day I will really be able to repay them..like when they’re old and can no longer take care of themselves..they will live WITH ME and I will completely take care of them.
“She’s naver had to live up to the burdens of real life single motherhood. She IS lucky.”
Oh no? I haven’t? How about every holdiay that goes by and my daughter has no father? How about every birthday she will have and doesn’t have him around? How about every time we go to the park and she’ll see other daddy’s playing with their little girls? How about having to watch THAT pain in her eyes? SURE..I haven’t had to live in the projects or be on welfare..for you to WISH that on me so that I would KNOW what it’s really like to be a single mother is sick and twisted, Laura. BELIEVE ME, I know what it’s like to be a single mother. Just because I have a wonderful family doesn’t mean I’M NOT a single mother.
I am NOT lecturing anyone about unplanned pregnancies..I merely share my experience of an unplanned pregnancy and single motherhood..because YES I am a single mother. Maybe if more people trusted their families enough, they could go to them during this challenging time and their situation could work out like mine luckily has. HOWEVER, if my parents had told me to go to hell and that they didn’t want to deal with the pregnancy or my daughter..I WOULD HAVE STILL HAD MY BABY.
So go talk shit and spew your hatred at someone else, Laura. I know who I am and I know what I have been given, as well as what I stand for. Sorry it bothers you so much.
I’ve got a sister-in-law who is educated, married and has one child. She has her mother travel from another state to cover her daycare needs, has her parents and my mother-in-law buy the baby things she doesn’t need and is unemployed.
My brother-in-law is a lawyer and makes WELL over $150,000 a year so she can well afford her own daycare and baby things. They planned the pregnancy. She’s a rotten princess who uses everyone around her.
Elizabeth is getting help for a purpose, not to mooch off people. Big difference.
I think Elisabeth is doing fantastic, we need more young women like her.
Elizabeth,
You’re doing wonderful!!! You are a role model to single mothers everywhere. I am so proud of all you do, all you have accomplished & especially proud of the wonderful mother I feel you are. You are a blessing to this world…don’t forget it!
Laura,
Could you possibly be only “assuming” that she is “dumping her responsiblities” on her parents? Maybe her mother OFFERED to help her…you know, people with hearts OFTEN do that! This may seem a bit strange to you, but sometimes people actually CARE about others! Get out a heating pad, place it over your chest and defrost the ice-cold heart of yours & I guarantee….your eyes will open, too!
Jill,
LOL on your comment to Doug! I know it may “seem” like a joke to pro-aborts, but it is sooooo true! Hey, and don’t forget, they usually can’t protest more than a 1/2 hour!
Elisabeth,
If you dont mind me asking, did the father of your daughter not want anything to do with her when she was born (like me)?
And I will completely understand if you chose not to anwer, it is kind of personal…
Jasper,
QOTD…very funny! sounds like he’s campaigning for Satan’s job!
“sounds like he’s campaigning for Satan’s job!”
I know!
I don’t know how these people sleep at night.
“I don’t know how these people sleep at night.”
My guess, a shot of whiskey and a Vicodin or Valium ought to do the trick…
Yea, I guess Rae.
Hope everthing is well Rae.
Good Christmas song:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2022656746612293413&q=sarah+mclaughlin+god+rest&total=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
@Jasper: That is a great song, I love the Barenaked Ladies. :D
Things are doing a bit better though, I started my new medications at the beginning of the month and I think they’re really working well.
Here is my absolute favorite Christmas song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlf—13Q0g
Elizabeth —
Your story reminds me of my own. I would just tell you not to worry about who is absent in your child’s life, only who is present.
My daughter is 16 now and the absent parent hasn’t really been an issue. I have always answered any question she has asked or pursue the absence. We lived with my family too, as I finished my grad degree — my daughter was surrounded by my family, life-long neighbors and loads of cousins.
I have pursued a career and we lived on our own for many years now. We have a great life, maybe not the traditional life I had once planned, but it’s all been good (or at least interesting) and I would not trade my decisions along the way for the world.
Having my daughter was the best thing that ever happened in my life. It was the responsible thing to do. Having the child you conceive is the responsible thing to do. For some opting for adoption is a good decision, for others single parenthoood is best.
Hang in there Elizabeth, take it one day at a time and enjoy parenthood, enjoy your family — it’s a great adventure.
Midnite,
Well first, he started saying, “if” the baby is his…which SHOULD have been my first clue..but I was a tad bit naive at that point in my life. (She is HIS by the way) Then he would get mad over some things that were pretty stupid and he threw something at me once when he was yelling at me. Then we were having a huge argument over the phone about the financial aspect of the whole pregnancy..and he was yelling at me SO loud that my parents downstairs could hear him yelling at me on my cell phone. Then he hung up on me..I think I was about a month or month and a half pregnant at that point. I didn’t hear from him again til I was about 8 months preggo. He was off in Florida having a blast. He was in Canada during that time too. I could go through the LONG, LONG list of crap he’s done or tried to do to me since then..but the gist of it is..he hasn’t seen her once. He wouldn’t even know what she looked like if he didn’t steal her pictures off my myspace so he could show people and pretend like he knew anything about her. He is really QUITE a piece of work. And no, I don’t mind talking about it..I’m not ashamed because I don’t really have anything to be ashamed of. He’s the one who should be. If you want to chat more about it, you can get my email from one of the mod’s if you’d like.
Thank you everyone for your very kind words. They are of great support to me in ways you all may not even understand. I know in my heart how wonderful my life is and how thankful I am every day for it. There are always people in life attemtping to tear us down for the purposes of making themselves feel better. Again, thank you all very much!
Thanks Rae, I loved snoopy and CB growing up. I’m going to show that video to my kids tomorrow morning…
“Things are doing a bit better though, I started my new medications at the beginning of the month and I think they’re really working well.”
Thats good news, it’s normal that people have to try different kinds before they find the one that works…
@Jasper: Indeed. :D That song just makes me happy, and it’s not sappy like a lot of Christmas songs are. I like non-traditional Christmas songs like “Gothic Christmas” by Within Temptation and “The Night Santa Went Crazy” by Weird Al Yankovic.
Though my guilty pleasure Christmas song is the Little Drummer Boy by David Bowie and Bing Crosby. David Bowie creeps me out but man can he sing!
Though my guilty pleasure Christmas song is the Little Drummer Boy by David Bowie and Bing Crosby. David Bowie creeps me out but man can he sing!
Yes, I love that one too. Those 2 made a good duo.
Rae,
Thank you SO much for posting the Snoopy video. Oh my gosh…I am SOOOOOOO old!!! (I just e-mailed it to my brother). That brings back good memories!
Merry CHRISTmas!
My two favorite Christmas Songs of ALL time!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5hauj-U-A&feature=related
^Reminds me of my momma in the 80’s
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2dnrosVyamY
^ Reminds me of being little.
Elizabeth, I agree with everyone else. You have NOTHING to be ashamed of. You are a terrific mother.
By the way…Laura, couldn’t one say that dumping your financial burdens (you know, like your free diploma) on an organization like NOW is no different than dumping them on American taxpayers? Pot/Kettle?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=s8jw-ifqwkM
^ I like this one too (I am a sucker for the Beatles members) & I wish the War was over :-(
Rae–
Seeing that video reminded me of being a kid — I loved Snoopy. Back then the Christmas Special only aired once a year and we would get everyone watching it (even my older brothers and dad).
I wonder if anyone outside of Chicago remembers this one. It’s an oldie, but a goodie too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT5Ohgl7eTM
Doug, 5:42p, your side doesn’t have enough motivated people to pull together much a protest for a Big Deal, such as at Planned Parenthood Aurora (when you were outnumbered 1000:17), never mind protesting a home, particularly when it gets below 70 degrees or above 80.
Posted by: Jill Stanek at December 21, 2007 8:04 PM
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You protest homes Jill? What do you have against homes? Do you have a problem with people who support PP having homes?
I think that if you don’t live in a neighborhood, you have no business loitering about in that neighborhood.
Midnite,
Well first, he started saying, “if” the baby is his…which SHOULD have been my first clue..but I was a tad bit naive at that point in my life. (She is HIS by the way) Then he would get mad over some things that were pretty stupid and he threw something at me once when he was yelling at me. Then we were having a huge argument over the phone about the financial aspect of the whole pregnancy..and he was yelling at me SO loud that my parents downstairs could hear him yelling at me on my cell phone. Then he hung up on me..I think I was about a month or month and a half pregnant at that point. I didn’t hear from him again til I was about 8 months preggo. He was off in Florida having a blast. He was in Canada during that time too. I could go through the LONG, LONG list of crap he’s done or tried to do to me since then..but the gist of it is..he hasn’t seen her once. He wouldn’t even know what she looked like if he didn’t steal her pictures off my myspace so he could show people and pretend like he knew anything about her. He is really QUITE a piece of work. And no, I don’t mind talking about it..I’m not ashamed because I don’t really have anything to be ashamed of. He’s the one who should be. If you want to chat more about it, you can get my email from one of the mod’s if you’d like.
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 21, 2007 10:47 PM
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Be very very happy that he isn’t a part of your life and hope like hell that he never chooses to be. What is a shame is that you got pregnant by non father material. Accidents do happen now don’t they.
I am happy that you have supportive family to help you carry the weight. At the same time I’m a little sad that you don’t understand what that weight feels like without that support. I guess that there is no real substitute for experience.
Elizabeth, I agree with everyone else. You have NOTHING to be ashamed of. You are a terrific mother.
By the way…Laura, couldn’t one say that dumping your financial burdens (you know, like your free diploma) on an organization like NOW is no different than dumping them on American taxpayers? Pot/Kettle?
Posted by: Bethany at December 21, 2007 11:15 PM
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NOW is paying for Laura’s education?
NOW is paying for Laura’s education?
Posted by: Sally at December 22, 2007 1:27 AM
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Hardly. I got a $3,100 grant based on scholastic merit and over 1000 of volunteer community service. It was expedited when I shattered my pelvis.
over 1000 of volunteer community service.
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That would be 1000 hours.
I’m tired.
“So what if she is lucky? I am glad that she has supportive parents. I am happy for Elizabeth.”
Are you happy that my Mom is buying me a car and my parents are paying for me to go to Italy for spring break? If you are going to congradulate one person on being lucky why not all the lucky people? I mean Elizabeth should at least attempt to understand different situations, like what if the woman isn’t lucky?
Well Jess, I don’t know every single lucky person walking the face of the earth. To all you lucky people out there, I am happy for you. Congrats on your car and your trip. What parts of Italy are you planning to visit? (By the way, my circumstances when I was your age were much different. I am glad that you and Elizabeth seem to have good families.)
Jill: Doug, your side doesn’t have enough motivated people to pull together much a protest for a Big Deal, such as at Planned Parenthood Aurora (when you were outnumbered 1000:17), never mind protesting a home, particularly when it gets below 70 degrees or above 80.
Jill, I have to laugh about those temperatures – and maybe you’re right. ; )
I’d say just how “big” a deal it is matters, i.e. over a million people at the March for Women’s Lives or March for Choice, clobbering Pro-Life numbers. And so it goes….
I hope this is the best Christmas ever for you and yours.
Doug
sounds like he’s campaigning for Satan’s job!
Oh buhrudder…
@@
Rae, Snoopy’s Christmas – that’s a classic – it came out 40 years ago. My brothers and I had that record and we played the livin’ crap out of it.
For a little different Peanuts video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7uZFN7jhpc
It was a sad day when Charles Schultz died. I always wanted to see Charlie Brown make that kick….
The Royal Guardsmen broke up in 1969, but have recently got back together, and are supposedly making a new song – “Snoopy versus Osama.”
Rae, speaking of David Bowie – I think this video really kicks butt, largely due to a rocking Gail Ann Dorsey. ‘Under Pressure’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNGQor3dED8
“I am happy that you have supportive family to help you carry the weight. At the same time I’m a little sad that you don’t understand what that weight feels like without that support. I guess that there is no real substitute for experience. ”
Give me a break Sally, there are all kinds of programs out there to support single pregnant Moms. You won’t find them at PP.
@Doug: I heard the Snoopy vs. Osama song, it’s kinda lame. :(
And that was an amazing version of Under Pressure! It’s the best non-Freddie Mercury one I’ve seen (the one with Annie Lennox at the Freddie Mercury tribute concert is awful!).
Under Pressure is one of my favorite Queen songs EVAR, thank you for sharing that! :D
Give me a break Sally, there are all kinds of programs out there to support single pregnant Moms. You won’t find them at PP.
You can, however, find multitudes of such resources at your local Crisis Pregnancy Center! I give out that info all the time. :)
Beware of CPCs, though.
http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/fake.htm
Jess,
I do have A LOT of understanding for different situations. Like I have said, if my parents CHOSE not to help me (which I didn’t even ask for by the way) I would have kept my baby anyway. If financial stability is what solidifies you into being a good parent, then I guess Britney Spears has it in the bag. My parents offered to help me so that I can go to school and have a GOOD career. My parents, especially my father, hold education in VERY high regard so they were willing to help me finish mine. They think in the long term as to what would be BEST to create a good life for me and my daughter. I work very hard, and being a single mother is very challenging despite having help from my wonderful parents in the financial aspect.
Sally,
I would like to thank you for your nice comment. I am very thankful he is not a part of our lives and I do hope that continues to be the case. Being a single mother is a hard experience and my family wanted to help in any way that they could, and luckily they were able to. I still attend school and do a lot of work around here for my family in return for their generosity. I don’t think that having to struggle any more than I do is necessary to have the true “experience” of being a single mom. I don’t have to live on welfare or in the projects to have that real experience or to know it’s a place I don’t want to be. It’s very real to me now and I take my life very seriously. I am working towards a goal and my parents are helping me and for that I am more than grateful.
Doug: “For a little different Peanuts video:”
LOL, Doug thats hillarious, I don’t quite remember peanuts singing like that!
btw: CPC’s are great. Our church always donates money and supplies etc. to the local CPC. (they really help pregnant women)
Yeah, Doug, I’m sure the Feminist Women’s Health Center has no (monetary) reason to want people to want to stay away from CPC’s.
@@
Bethany,
Oh no no, money has nothing to do with it. You see, any time a woman enters a CPC she becomes this helpless simpering wimp. She’s completely unable to stand up and leave. Somehow she is forced to sit and listen to what she doesn’t want to listen to, and she can’t even resist calling back or returning once she does somehow manage to leave.
I wish I could understand this mysterious force, since I volunteered at a CPC and other than physically restraining a client, or threatening her with a deadly weapon, both of which would have gotten me thrown in prison, I know of no way she could have been forced to do anything.
Keep in mind that women serve honorably and bravely in our armed and police forces, command space shuttles, pilot airliners, and so much more too numerous to list, but even these women can be turned into bowls of jello once they enter a CPC.
That’s the real “concern” about CPCs Bethany. It certainly has nothing to do with taking money away from the abortion industry. Perhaps since you volunteer in one, you can explain this mysterious force. I never recall my CPC clients coming across as so helpless.
Elizabeth,
I am inspired by your story and very impressed with not only your composure under ridiculous accusations, but your maturity in coping with/making the best of an extremely difficult situation. Anyone who belittles your experience as a single mother because it doesn
Elizabeth,
I second Theresa. Parenthood under the “best” conditions is no joyride. I am the daughter, granddaughter, and great grandaughter of single mothers, women who wound up single mothers because of suicide, abuse, divorce, and death. There are no guarantees. The marriage that is idyllic when a child is conceived can be a shambles a year later.
My best to you and your daughter. You are indeed a woman of character. I know you would be the first to help another woman in similar circumstances and aren’t families supposed to help their members?
I still say your daughter will give Halle Berry a run for her money someday!
lol Mary, really! I have been working in one for a while now. The women who come in are the ones who ask questions, and whatever they ask, I give them information on.
I never have put a gun to anyone’s head for any reason, and the funny thing is…I have never really heard of a case where a CPC worker did such a thing. Maybe Doug could be kind enough to direct me to a reference of where such a thing has occurred?
The majority of women who come in, are coming to get free maternity clothes, diapers, formula, baby beds, car seats, etc. All with no strings attached. I give them the diapers, etc- tell them I hope they’re having a nice day- ask if there’s anything else I can help them with…record their name in the book, and they leave.
Many young mothers (15-16 years old sometimes) come in asking for referrals for single mothers help. I have an entire book full of resources which I print off and give away freely. No strings attached.
Many women come in and are naturally attracted to our fetal displays…which are really fascinating. They will point and ask me “Is this the size of them when they’re a month?” and I’ll say, yes. If they’re really interested, I’ll even show them the pictures of my baby who miscarried, so that they can see a real life example.
When I give them pregnancy tests, I offer them the opportunity to view a tape if they want something to do while they wait for the test results. They will most of the time say yes, and sometimes I have had people tell me no. Yet, I have never forced a woman to watch a tape, and I never would (Not to mention, I am specifically told not to coerce a woman to do anything in my CPC manual).
They have the choice to sit in the waiting room if they desire.
I never lie to the women who come in. I never deceive them. Every bit of information I give them is accurate or I tell them that I am not sure, if I am not sure. And I direct them to a medical professional to handle their medical questions.
I do give pamphlets away, but I am unaware of any force which compels a woman to do everything the pamphlets tell them to. My pamphlets range from “how to care for yourself during pregnancy”, to “the life inside you”, to, “How to prevent STD’s”, and “why wait?”.
I never knew (before pro-choicers gave me this implication) that women were so ignorant and helpless that they are forced to do whatever a CPC volunteer tells them, or forced or compelled to do everything in the free pamphlets we distribute to them. I always thought they were pretty smart people who could make their own INFORMED decisions…but maybe I was wrong. Maybe the pro-choicers here could clear me up on that “misconception”.
Oh no no, money has nothing to do with it. You see, any time a woman enters a CPC she becomes this helpless simpering wimp. She’s completely unable to stand up and leave. Somehow she is forced to sit and listen to what she doesn’t want to listen to, and she can’t even resist calling back or returning once she does somehow manage to leave.
Oh that’s right, I forgot that every time a pregnant woman walks in, I lock the door and swallow the key. Silly me. :-P
I too volunteer at a CPC….and I think the new leather restraints are far more comfortable for our “clients” than the old metal shackles…those are now stored in the bottom of the gun cabinet.
Bethany,
Isn’t this the reason for opposition to informed consent laws? Women just can’t handle it, its too traumatic.
We had a lawyer not far from me take that attitude toward a female client. You know, the delicate little woman who just can’t handle knowing certain things. He did not thoroughly advise her on all her options concerning a legal matter, because, you know, being a woman, she couldn’t possibly handle hearing some unpleasant facts.
Anyway, the woman hauled his tail before the state bar and got his licensed pulled. She claimed she made a legal decision that was wrong for her and never would have made had she been thorougly informed, however little she would have liked her options. Imagine her not appreciating his concern for her delicate psyche!
LOL I was reading the Feminist Women’s center page that Doug linked to, and here’s what it says:
“Anti-abortion pregnancy centers are listed in the yellow pages under “abortion alternatives.” They do NOT provide abortion.”
Hmm. That sounds like a “duh” to me. What do they think “alternative” means?
Some women have then been denied the results of their pregnancy test when they say they want an abortion or that they need the test result to apply for medical assistance.Women describe being harassed, intimidated, and given blatantly false information, or being forced to pray with the crisis pregnancy center’s staff. They complain that their confidential information was used against them. In some cases, they were followed home, and mail and phone calls intruded into their homes.
What was it you said about anecdotal stories, Doug? You know, when I was telling you about women talking about the horror they experienced at abortion clinics? Hmm…
Also, if any woman’s confidential information was given away, are there any cases filed against the CPC’s in question to prove this charge? a CPC could get in big trouble for this…they could even be shut down for it. Giving away confidential information is a big No-no for CPC’s.
Again, let’s see some legitimate references. Not an abortion clinic stating unprovable stories against someone who might take away some of their their (lucrative) business clients.
I LOVE THIS NEXT ONE!!!
For unbiased help deciding what to do, see:
* Am I Pregnant? a list of pregnancy symptoms and assistance in evaluating your options
For UNBIASED information, check out the NATIONAL ABORTION FEDERATION for more. Yeah, that’s TOTALLY unbiased! ROTFLMAO!!
They show shocking and misleading films and pictures of mutilated fetuses and stillborn babies. They won’t let women leave until the end of the video or until they have looked at all the anti-abortion information, even when the woman realizes she has made a mistake going there.
Doug, I would be MORE than happy to make copies of each and every one of our tapes that we give women, to let you view them. I don’t have any worries about it. There is nothing misleading in the videos whatsoever. Just the plain and clear facts. Facts that even you agree with.
IF you discover you are seeking help from an anti-abortion facility, protect yourself from further harassment. Leave immediately and do not return.
…says the pro-“choice” site LOL!!!
There’s more but I think that is enough for now. I’ve had fun.
I too volunteer at a CPC….and I think the new leather restraints are far more comfortable for our “clients” than the old metal shackles…those are now stored in the bottom of the gun cabinet.
Stop it, you’re killing me!
Imagine her not appreciating his concern for her delicate psyche!
Imagine indeed!
Media bias? What a novel idea!
“99% of Americans agree with the angry neighbor”
— SO BLOODY WHAT?! I expect that 99% of the Germans forced to view and bury the corpses retrieved from the Nazi death camps after the end of WWII had similar reactions; but it doesn’t mean they’re right. 100% of the victims object(ed) to the atrocities which rendered them so horrific to see (and, in the case of the Germans, smell, and touch); since it’s so important to some of you to back yourselves up with such numbers (since you have no principles left to stand on for yourself), why not put yourselves in sympathy for the real victims, the murdered babies shown on “those posters”, and work to end their victimization?
What’s really inappropriate, and should not be protected by the law, is a.) taking innocent human life, directly or indirectly, actively or passively; b.) co-opting the survivors of this holocaust (anyone under the age of 35, especially children) as little human shields in the suppression of evidence of the killing spree that continues to kill thousands of others daily.
“She’s 3 years old”. Whoopty doo. She can handle the truth…should her stupid, foul-mouthed, cowardly, bullying father ever acquire the testicular fortitude to learn to tell it to her in an age-appropriate way. By his rotten example, he’s teaching her to take greater umbrage at exposing the atrocities of abortion than at the atrocities exposed; and to look the other way when weaker people than herself are being cruelly, deliberately, and systematically destroyed. No doubt when he and the public school system are done with her, she’ll make a great Hitllary youth–soulless, mindless, with no conscience. Does he really want someone like that choosing his nursing home…??? This sort of thing may well come back to bite him hard in the butt; and he won’t have any more recourse against it than the children whose plight he currently wants suppressed, ignored and disregarded.
Preborn children really don’t want, deserve, or need some social engineer got up as a doctor breaking into their prenatal homes(their mothers’ wombs) and brutally poisoning, dismembering, or otherwise killing them. This is a much more unjust, brutal invasion of privacy than picketing someone’s home on the sidewalk or street outside. If the abortion industry would stay outside of the prenatal residences of unborn children, I’m sure the home pickets of the child-killers and all their accomplices would come to a very fast halt. Certainly worth a try, and the fairest way to end these home pickets.
Bethany 11:14am
My favorite memory of the Clarence Thomas hearings was my elderly white haired mother watching the hoopla and wailing over sexual harassment on TV and asking:
“For heaven’s sake when did women become so damned helpless?!”
For all you David Bowie lovers out there (or as a guilty pleasure).
This is from my ALL TIME favorite movie as a child; Labyrinth (I still have it on VHS and watch it at least once evry two weeks). ::blushes::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C8jT9FVIVSU&feature=related
————————————–
OK, I am off to finish my Christmas shopping. Wish me luck I dont kill anyone (in traffic or at the mall)……
Bethany, your little icons are making me laugh!
And I went to several CPC’s when I first got pregnant, they were very helpful the whole time. From personal experiences to factual info., they were very comforting to me.
Theresa and Mary,
Thank you very much for your kind words! It is hard to maintain composure when someone says such awful, ignorant things (even over the Internet) but I am a pro at dealing with it. It does get to me sometimes, but I know in my heart how thankful I truly am for my family, and how much I give back to them as well. That’s what family’s do for each other…and I am lucky to have gotten one of the best!
“‘For heaven’s sake when did women become so damned helpless?!'”
Beats me Mary, I know for certain I’m not helpless. I can give a nice thorough verbal lashing when necessary. :D Nobody messes with moi when I’m in “Ice Queen” mode.
*puts up fists*
Huzzah!
@Elizabeth: I gotta say, I wish all but the best for you and your daughter and I’m glad you have such a supportive, loving family who is willing to help you instead of ostracize you like some families do. I think it’s great that they’re willing to pitch in to so you can finish school and get a good job to support your kiddo.
The best of luck! :D
Thanks, Rae!
Beats me Mary, I know for certain I’m not helpless. I can give a nice thorough verbal lashing when necessary. :D Nobody messes with moi when I’m in “Ice Queen” mode.
*puts up fists*
Huzzah!
LOL Rae :D
Carrie, I’m actually thinking about doing Willing Workers where you go to an organic farm and volunteer to work there for free room and board. There are farms all over the world. I was thinking somewhere in Eastern Europe for a few months.
Rae,
I never got the impression from your posts that you put up with much nonsense! :)
Elizabeth,
You’re entirely welcome.
Oh Elizabeth….you are making shirking responsibility look so un-cool!
Shame on you!
BTW
Most germans HATED the nazis, from what I heard. They were just quiet about it so they wouldn’t be put into death camps themselves.
When a professor of mine visited Auschwitz, he noticed a busload of german children also visiting on a field trip. He asked the teacher how the children reacted to seeing it. He said they look at their history like any country looks at its historical wrongdoings. He added, “we closed OUR camps.”
Haha…I love being a trendsetter Theresa!
I want to do obstetrics/gynecology…I would also like to work in the NICU and in pediatrics. Can you tell I love babies/kids? Just a little. :)
My grandma was a disease control nurse Theresa…just IMAGINE the stories she can tell!
EEEWWWWW! I’ll bet she encountered some glorious smells during her career!
Sounds like you
Oh, wait a minute
Laura, I’ve had an a-ha moment.
You’re Pro-choice?
How about Faux Choice?
Yes Carder, but in her case you’d have to spell it: Fo’ Choice!
(Good one!)
Theresa,
I can handle anything, anything, but a dirty navel. During abdominal preps the nurses have to clean navels as well. If anything will get me retching its a description of what they remove, which they often are only to happy to give. I honestly have to tell them to stop and look away.
Elizabeth,
I would think a “spoiled princess” wouldn’t have to concern herself with a career of any kind.
Bethany 11:10am
You’re so right about confidentiality and CPCs. That was a very strict rule. Also, harassing clients was strictly forbidden. Any client who felt these rules had been violated could contact the CPC director and action would be taken. Also, violation of confidentiality can result in legal action. The clients also had the option of giving only their first names, which most did, and not giving anymore information about themselves than they chose. I had no idea how to reach any number of clients because they simply chose not to let me know. This was always the client’s option and she was advised as such.
I also found this gave the clients a sense of control, their privacy would be respected, and this would put them more at ease.
I never lie to the women who come in. I never deceive them. Every bit of information I give them is accurate or I tell them that I am not sure, if I am not sure. And I direct them to a medical professional to handle their medical questions.
Bethany, not to say that all CPCs are bad. I do believe that you care very much.
Here’s a question – if a pregnant woman comes in, hears what you have to say, and in the end says that she still thinks that having an abortion is the best thing for her, what do you do then?
Doug
Doug,
If I may answer that question. I’ve had that happen several times and there is nothing you can do. You’ve made the effort. I’ve presented her with the alternatives, offered my support, tried to persaude her. If she says no thanks, stands up and leaves, there is little more I can do. I always told the client she was welcome to call back or return any time, the door was always open. I know of one case where the client did contact a volunteer post abortion. She was distraught, depressed, regretted her abortion, and just did not know who to turn to.
The CPC volunteer, very fearful that the woman was suicidal, referred her to professional counselling and continued to support and encourage her through a very long and difficult time.
By the way Doug, you have no idea how many of these young women I tried very hard to talk out of trying to become pregnant. Yes, you read that right. Teenagers and young college girls who just wanted to have a baby.
Mary, thank you – very good answer. And I hear you on the “just wanting to have a baby.”
Merry Christmas.
Doug
Theresa,
Well poop I really don’t have a problem with..cause well haha I have changed QUITE a few diapers lol..but vomit..that’s tough for me..but I’m sure I’ll get desensitized to it eventually.
Doug,
You’re very welcome. A very Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.
Mary – a further question – why are there so many young women that you tried to talk out of getting pregnant? Not trying to “trip you up” and I don’t think there is a wrong answer – I’m just surprised that many non-pregnant women would be in a “CPC.”
Doug
Elizabeth,
Nothing is more horrid than what grows in people’s navels. ARGHHHHHHHHHH
Doug,
Many came in for pregnancy tests hoping they were pregnant, and bitterly disappointed that they weren’t. One 17y/o was heartrending. She had had an abortion a year before and was hoping she was pregnant now, which very thankfully she wasn’t. Then she asked about contraception. I told her that was a medical matter we could not advise on, but I sensed she didn’t really want it.
In fact, she didn’t even want to be having sex at all, she just felt obligated. I had a long talk with her, she was obviously very depressed, and I think she just wanted someone to tell her she had the right to say no, to give her body and emotions a much needed rest, and that she didn’t owe anyone sex.
We often encountered these more unusual situations and that’s only one example.
Mary,
That is sick..I had never even though about that navel thing. Yucky.
thought* sheesh I have been frosting way to many Christmas cookies today.
Mary, you answered excellently. That is so true.
And I have had the same thing happening! There was a 17 year old girl who had tears in her eyes just last week when I told her her test came back negative. This happens very frequently. I can understand it though—I wanted to have babies from the time I was 12. Although, at that time, I didn’t know how they were made LOL!
Here’s a question – if a pregnant woman comes in, hears what you have to say, and in the end says that she still thinks that having an abortion is the best thing for her, what do you do then?
Mary answered so well. She said everything I would have said and more- except I would like to add that I would probably sit down and have a good cry after the woman left. There’s not much else I would be able to do.
Bethany,
Honestly I have only seen that happen on shows like Maury and stuff. I didn’t really know it was that common, but I understand it.
Bethany,
Thank you. One certainly sees some very unusual situations in a CPC. Ours had a hotline and one day I got a call from this woman frantic to have an abortion. I asked her why she wanted an abortion and she said she didn’t, but that she was convinced the baby would have Downs. I asked her why, she said her age. She was in her mid-thirties. She told me she had an amniocentesis scheduled. I asked why she didn’t at least get that done first before doing anything. We talked for a prolonged period and she calmed down considerably. I reminded her that there was a time when women over 35 having babies was not viewed as any issue, only with the advent of amnio had it become one. I pointed out that the late actress Lucille Ball had her first two children after the age of forty and they were both fine. No one thought a thing of it.
She thanked me profusely, said she felt much more reassured, and would have her amnio.
Now a question. Older women have “tired eggs”. Why do we never hear about “tired sperm”?
Mary, because men produce sperm for their entire lives, and women don’t. When a women is born, she has all the eggs she will ever have.
Elizabeth, 8:38PM
Believe me it was and is common. I remember working in the maternity ward of a large city hospital in 1970 as a nursing assistant and just being aghast at the women having several babies out of wedlock. Young naive me. Back then this wasn’t so acceptable, I remember the “illegits” going out for adoption being put in the back of the nursery.
These women made no secret that these pregnancies were not accidents. They were grown women who could certainly obtain contraception for heaven’s sake, and they weren’t ignorant as to what makes babies. Yet some were having their 3+ child.
Much of what Bethany and I describe has any number of reasons, girls from single parent homes, peer pressure to have a baby, our society’s glamorizing of illegitimacy, some emotional need in the girl, or just some fantasy about what having a baby is like. People for the most part don’t believe me when I tell them these pregnancies are not accidents and no amount of contraception or abortion is going to make a difference to many of these girls.
A group of black professional women in a major city near me formed a mentoring group for black teenage girls at risk for pregnancy. The group has been highly successful, with the girls graduating from high school and continuing their educations, rather than repeating a pattern of illegitimacy and welfare dependency.
Jodes,
I know, but don’t men get old and the quality of their sperm production possibly not be what it used to be?
Actually, I have read that the radiation women have been exposed to over their lifetime may play a bigger role than the age of her eggs.
The other factor is that women in their forties are not having babies in the same proportion as women in their twenties. Most Downs children are born to women in their twenties. My cousin was 23 when the third of her five children was born with Downs. It was the only one in that bunch that turned out halfway decent.
Jodes,
Another point. A doctor told me that years ago infertility was always assumed to be the fault of the woman. It would hurt the man’s ego to suggest it might be his. Male doctors were most sympathetic. Never mind how it could make a woman feel about her femininity.
Anyway, he said women would be subjected to all kinds of tests and surgery before the man was even tested! Now consider how simple it was to test a man! Thankfully times have changed and men are tested first.
If I’m a little suspcious of this possibly sexist assumption that a fetal defect must be the fault of the woman’s eggs, you can understand why.
By the way, did The Bible ever speak of barren men?
Elizabeth 8:12PM
And that comes from an old warhorse nurse who worked surgical floor, ICU, emergency room, and spent the past 26 years in surgery!
Mary, I think that it might be seen as a defect is more likely to be from the womens egg because if a mans sperm is deformed or has a defect, it is less likely to be able to swim the distance to reach the egg, whereas an egg with fault is just as easily fertilized as a normal egg.
As for the testing, it seems obvious to me to test the man first. And protecting the mans feelings? Please. Ridiculous.
Since I have no read the bible in it’s entirety, I couldn’t say if it mentions barren men. But I would doubt it.
Elizabeth: That is sick..I had never even though about that navel thing. Yucky.
I’ve seen trees growing in them.
Okay, just kidding. Elizabeth, my best to to you and your daughter and your family.
……..
I would like to add that I would probably sit down and have a good cry after the woman left. There’s not much else I would be able to do.
Thank you, too, Bethany – another very honest answer. Knowing you, that’s what I’d expect – and nothing wrong there – that’s just the way it is. The one thing I’m surprised about is people going to CPCs for pregnancy tests; didn’t know that was done.
…….
Mary, no doubt the social stigma against unwed pregnancy has dropped off a lot. In my lifetime alone, born in 1959, it has practically totally flipped over.
Doug
By the way, did The Bible ever speak of barren men?
Mary, I have to laugh – the Bible was written by men, and as much as anything the attitude towards women is some serious proof that it’s not “divinely inspired.” My opinion, of course.
There is lots more to it, but enough for now.
Doug
Doug,
You know me Doug, I will NOT get into religious discussions. Actually I asked a minister that and he couldn’t answer. I think it was more a cultural factor. It was just assumed to be the woman’s fault. Infertility was certainly not manly. Also, maybe in the Bible the women were in fact barren.
Jodes,
A good point. But since genetic problems can be inherited from men, my sister has a personality disorder courtesy of my father, I know those little bastards can swim, defective or not.
Mary, no doubt some of the defective ones get through, I’m just saying it’s less likely….with certain disorders. I’m sure there are some defects that don’t affect the way sperm swim.
Jodes,
Again, true. My issue is the assumption that it MUST be the woman’s fault. HER eggs get old and tired, a man’s sperm is always at peak performance. I was quite surprised as well by what that doctor told me, but I find it very believable. The male medical establishment could well empathize with the man.
Mary, I agree, it shouldn’t be assumed that it MUST be the woman at fault…I’m just saying, if I was a doctor, I would probably suspect the woman but test the man first for simplicity.
Jodes,
My 9:53 post was in reference to the woman being assumed to have “old eggs” and she MUST be the one responsible for the fetal defect. I have an issue with it being assumed that the woman must be the one at fault for fetal defect. I think we’ve crossed our subjects here!
Concerning fertility testing, a man is always tested first, which certainly makes sense.
By the way, this doctor also told me 40% of the time its the woman’s fault, 40% of the time its the man’s fault, and 20% of the time its both. I have no idea if those stats still hold true today, but there was obviously no basis for assuming it was the woman’s fault.
Mary – cheers there too – wow, we are being so dang honest today/tonight. Yeah – it’s definitely a cultural factor – I think most cultures are that way, i.e. not fair to women.
I’ve read a thing that pretty well refutes the idea of “fresh” sperm and “old” eggs but it’s been so long, oh so long ago…. I can’t rememeber and tonight I ain’t got the gumption to go searching the spacelanes of the internet.
In any case, it’s not a direct comparison – the eggs remain for year while sperm (I believe) are constantly reabsorbed and produced anew.
….And, Mary, thank you for those years of nursing.
Seems like a different lifetime but earlier this year – February – I got osteomyelitis in two vertebrae and the intervening disk in my spine.
This caused some back spasms and pain – serious pain like a big dog. Tell you what – a good back spasm can make you just about turn inside out.
A biopsy was done(oh wasn’t that fun….)but nothing grew in the culture. Suspicion was some type of Staph and if I was totally sober I could type the rest of the bacteria’s name. Not unusual for the culture to come back negative they said.
Ended up I got intravenous infusion of Rocephin and Vancomycin for 9 weeks, twice a day. Started out once a day, went to twice a day. 117 times I went in to the hospital on an outpatient or “special” basis.
Staphylococcus – okay I slapped myself around and I can do it, but never knew what, if anything, it was.
So, to finally get to the point of this story, the nurses who “hooked me up,” morning and night, were fantastic, and I am forever greatful to them.
Just last Thursday I had some blood tests scheduled at the same hospital and I stopped in for a visit. When I was undergoing treatment, I bought them pizza (that was such a big hit) and got them a nice vase of flowers one time.
Thanks,
Doug
And just where in the heck are my buddies Jacqueline?
And….
Wait for it….
yllas.
I take it that yllas runs some sort of bar or restaurant, and if I went in there he’d end up liking me, and I’d end up liking him.
Doug,
Come to think of it. Barreness as referred to in the Bible may well have meant just childlessness, not infertility. Childless women were not necessarily infertile.
Indeed, Mary.
“I am happy that you have supportive family to help you carry the weight. At the same time I’m a little sad that you don’t understand what that weight feels like without that support. I guess that there is no real substitute for experience. ”
Give me a break Sally, there are all kinds of programs out there to support single pregnant Moms. You won’t find them at PP.
Posted by: jasper at December 22, 2007 8:45 AM
………………………………
What happens when those women are no longer pregnant and actually become mothers Jasper?
Doug,
My goodness that was an awful infection. I’m glad to hear you are recovered and doing well.
I know what you mean about muscle spasms, they can be debilitating.
Thank you as well for your compliments concerning nurses and I appreciate your thanks to me.
I began as a nursing assistant in 1970 and have practiced in one capacity or another since. I’ve never regretted my career decisions. I in fact consider myself exceptionally blessed to be working in a profession and with people I love.
Jess,
I do have A LOT of understanding for different situations. Like I have said, if my parents CHOSE not to help me (which I didn’t even ask for by the way) I would have kept my baby anyway. If financial stability is what solidifies you into being a good parent, then I guess Britney Spears has it in the bag. My parents offered to help me so that I can go to school and have a GOOD career. My parents, especially my father, hold education in VERY high regard so they were willing to help me finish mine. They think in the long term as to what would be BEST to create a good life for me and my daughter. I work very hard, and being a single mother is very challenging despite having help from my wonderful parents in the financial aspect.
Sally,
I would like to thank you for your nice comment. I am very thankful he is not a part of our lives and I do hope that continues to be the case. Being a single mother is a hard experience and my family wanted to help in any way that they could, and luckily they were able to. I still attend school and do a lot of work around here for my family in return for their generosity. I don’t think that having to struggle any more than I do is necessary to have the true “experience” of being a single mom. I don’t have to live on welfare or in the projects to have that real experience or to know it’s a place I don’t want to be. It’s very real to me now and I take my life very seriously. I am working towards a goal and my parents are helping me and for that I am more than grateful.
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 22, 2007 9:03 AM
……………………………………….
I quite understand Elizabeth. I would have liked to have had the opportunity to work for a personal goal after my husband took a hike. I was left to struggle to remain off of welfare and out of the projects, not like there are any projects here.
I have no doubt that you are greatful. To my way of thinking you aren’t really a single mother but rather an unmarried woman with a child not supported by your child’s father. But you are not self supportive.
Frankly, I am happy that you are where you are. Your ex romantic interest sounds like an abusive ass that would have made your life and your child’s hell. I very sincerly hope that he never wishes to darken your doorstep.
“What happens when those women are no longer pregnant and actually become mothers Jasper? ”
file for section 8 housing. I think this is still available for low-income people.
Give me a break Sally, there are all kinds of programs out there to support single pregnant Moms. You won’t find them at PP.
You can, however, find multitudes of such resources at your local Crisis Pregnancy Center! I give out that info all the time. :)
Posted by: Bethany at December 22, 2007 8:52 AM
……………………………………………….
How nice Bethany. You cheerlead through a pregnancy and then do exactly what? The same thing that the hospital does? Here’s some diapers and some skin cream? Give me a break.
For all you David Bowie lovers out there (or as a guilty pleasure).
This is from my ALL TIME favorite movie as a child; Labyrinth (I still have it on VHS and watch it at least once evry two weeks). ::blushes::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C8jT9FVIVSU&feature=related
————————————–
OK, I am off to finish my Christmas shopping. Wish me luck I dont kill anyone (in traffic or at the mall)……
Posted by: midnite678 at December 22, 2007 12:30 PM
………………………………………..
Labyrinth is one of my all time favs as a grown up. So much going on there in the realm of the mind. Very much a later day Wizard of Oz.
Do you fundies out there allow your children to watch the Wizard of Oz?
Mary, because men produce sperm for their entire lives, and women don’t. When a women is born, she has all the eggs she will ever have.
Posted by: Jodes at December 22, 2007 8:53 PM
………………………………………………….
Men’s sperm are influenced by the age and condition of the man.
Well dang – I’m just gonna have to watch “Labyrinth,” then. I remember advertisements for it, way back when – Bowie with elf ears or “Vulcan” ears – on no – is that like saying ‘Beetlejuice” three times for yllas?
Anyway, imdb.com is an incredible resource for movie-lovers.
Jasper:
Do you know exactly how BAD Section 8 housing is? It’s the projects. There are drug delas, robberys, burglaries, rapes and murders there.
Or do you not know the horror of it?
I would never suggest anyone move into that kind of home, especially with a a young child.
You got it eye patch Doug.
We would be the best of friends.
Then again. Nothing that is not a friend, has the potential of becoming a friend, and nothing, that has the potential of becoming a friend, is not a friend.
**deals
Brain is not functioning.
———————————-
Doug:
I highly recomend the movie “Labrynth”. It’s a great movie, I love it.
—————————————
And why wouldnt someone let their children watch The Wizard of Oz? What is wrong with it exactly?
And why wouldnt someone let their children watch The Wizard of Oz? What is wrong with it exactly?
Posted by: midnite678 at December 23, 2007 12:43 AM
And why would anyone entertain the farsical notion that Jesus never lived?
I left you some posts on the “choice destroys peace” thread.
Laura,
Go to the post she referenced. She lives at home, is unemployed, and has her mother and brother cover her daycare needs.
She then turns around and SLAMS other women for not “living up to their responsibilities.”
Does she meet your definition of “adult?”
Getting knocked-up isn’t the hard part of the reproductive process, it’s the 25 years AFTER that that’s hard.
Posted by: Laura at December 21, 2007 8:19 PM
Responsibility isn’t just about money. I would be happy to have my son and his wife and baby live with me and go to college and I would help take care of the baby. I would consider it a privilege. If she couldn’t stand living with her mother in law, I would help them buy a house or apartment. Taking care of your family includes grandkids, siblings, parents, cousins etc. It is a privilege to be there to love and support them. People are not a burden to society, they are society. Likewise I would be much happier paying for welfare than bombs and wars. Wouldn’t you?
Did you see that book, The Empty Cradle, by Longman? He has another about national health care policy called The Best Care Anywhere. I am going to read them both as soon as I get a chance.
Elizabeth is fortunate to have the support and help that Sally didn’t have. Some people have happy marriages, others have disasters. Some people enjoy excellent health, others suffer disability and disease. Some have a comfortable financial situation, others struggle to survive.
There are advantages in our lives that many people would give anything for. There are advantages in other people’s lives we would give anything for.
I could go on and on. The point is life ain’t fair, never has been or will be.
“Jasper:
Do you know exactly how BAD Section 8 housing is? It’s the projects. There are drug delas, robberys, burglaries, rapes and murders there.”
No, not really Midnite. It’s not really that bad. Yes, there are some bad projects, but there are also some pretty good ones. It’s the people who live there that make it what it is.
Come to think of it. Barreness as referred to in the Bible may well have meant just childlessness, not infertility. Childless women were not necessarily infertile.
Yes, I think you have that right, Mary. :)
Sally, 12:08am
We could go on forever arguing who is a “real” single mother or an unmarried one. Who struggled more than who. Its absurd.
Elizabeth is a single mother who has advantages you unfortunately didn’t have. You as a single mother had advantages compared to the circumstances of other women. I in no way trivialize your hardships or accomplishments in spite of them.
There were married mothers as myself who had life considerably easier than me, there were those who had it considerably more difficult.
I would have sold my soul for the help and support some women get. Hey, life ain’t fair.
And nothing set my teeth on edge more than hearing how Madame Celebrity “manages” a career and motherhood and how she can look so wonderful after having a baby. Gag me. I lost a lot of weight post partum too but it wasn’t because of visits to my personal trainer while the nanny watched the kids and the housekeeper tended my home.
Now are we going to argue over who is a “real” mother and who isn’t?
Oh, and thank you for the support! (12:23am)
How nice Bethany. You cheerlead through a pregnancy and then do exactly what? The same thing that the hospital does? Here’s some diapers and some skin cream? Give me a break.
We don’t cheerlead through pregnancy. We give them the resources they need to get through it. We give them maternity clothes, refer them to free medical care, give them food..if need be we even provide shelter for these women.
Thank you very much Sally, and I am sorry you had to struggle so much as a single mother. Our struggles may have been different in nature, but they still help make us who we are. I know all of my struggles have made me a better person in the long run, and I hope you feel that way as well.
We could go on forever arguing who is a “real” single mother or an unmarried one. Who struggled more than who. Its absurd.
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No, it’s absurd for the Spoiled Princess to admonish other women for being “cowards” and “not living up to the responsibilites of motherhood” when she has NO IDEA what that’s really like.
You might find this hard to believe, but the average single mother in this country does not lounge around her parent’s home, lazy and unemployed, for over TWO YEARS while she toys with the idea of getting an education and a job.
The Spoiled Princess has NO CLUE…
Just when I thought Laura couldn’t make herself look more bitter and foolish. What a piece of work. More insight into the mind of the pro-aborts.
Tim,
Firt, we dont like being called pro-aborts, we’re pro-choice.
Secondly, we dont all act that way.
Laura,
What do you know of Elizabeth’s circumstances and her life? How do you know she “lounged around”? Its likely she was busy with the demands of an infant and toddler. Perhaps the child had difficulties that required Elizabeth’s full time attention. Perhaps Elizabeth had her own issues to come to terms with and take care of. Perhaps there is much to the period of Elizabeth’s life she simply does not choose to discuss because its no one’s business or just too painful.
She has the good fortune to have a loving, supportive family. Yes, she has advantages many single mothers do not. People have advantages we don’t have, we have advantages people don’t have. Live with it.
She also has the responsibility of raising a child. That’s work. By the way Laura my mother often visited and I didn’t “lounge around” while she tended the child(ren) and the house. You do very little of that unless of course you’re Mrs.Trump.
Since when does a “spoiled princess” have to worry about going to school and establishing a career?
Laura, its easy to look at other people’s lives and draw the wrong conclusions. I’ve been wrong more times than I can count about “happy” marriages. I’ve seen people’s lives destroyed by rumors of affairs people assumed they were having. The list goes on.
We can only look at other people’s situations and make assumptions, and you know what you make out of u and me when you do that.
yllas: You got it eye patch Doug. We would be the best of friends.
First, this talk of “Section 8 housing” sounds funny to me. Heck, a “Section 8” was what Corporal Klinger was always trying for on ‘MASH’ – a psychiatric discharge.
I don’t know if we’d be the “best” of friends but I do get most of your references. Arrr, me hearty.
……
Then again. Nothing that is not a friend, has the potential of becoming a friend, and nothing, that has the potential of becoming a friend, is not a friend.
Wrong. Sometimes enemies become friends, even fast ones.
“First, this talk of “Section 8 housing” sounds funny to me. Heck, a “Section 8″ was what Corporal Klinger was always trying for on ‘MASH’ – a psychiatric discharge.”
KLINGER! M*A*S*H! That is one of my favorite shows EVER! I have such a crush on Alan Alda (before he got old, of course…lol). Mmmmmmmm… that show had such witty dialog, if only shows had that same wit nowadays. Now it’s just mean or lame most of the time. I loved all the puns in M*A*S*H…and I do enjoy “waxing poetic” like Hawkeye when I’m particularly pessimistic (for example I call the new University of Minnesota Gopher football stadium a “Mausoleum to Epic Failure and Incompetence”).
Yes, there are some bad projects, but there are also some pretty good ones. It’s the people who live there that make it what it is.
Jasper, there were some bad ones near what used to be my employer’s headquarters. Big long buildings, windows and screens busted out on the outside. On the inside, big holes had been hacked through the interior walls separating the apartments – that way drug dealers could walk through the whole place without being seen going in and out of the front doors. Heck of a way to live….
Doug
Oh Rae, I loved M*A*S*H too.
Amazingly – in February it will be 25 years since the show ended. That final episode was awesome, and I was all choked-up when it ended. Now, too, just thinking about it.
http://www.mash4077.co.uk/classic/goodbye.html
@Doug: I own Season 4. I’ve watched darn near every episode between Season 4 and Season 10-ish (I kind of stopped watching because a) school started and b) It got a touch too preachy for me). So I haven’t seen the last episode yet, though it’s definitely on my to-do list considering I’ve heard it’s one of the best episodes of M*A*S*H and one of the best episodes of any show, ever.
No, it’s absurd for the Spoiled Princess to admonish other women for being “cowards” and “not living up to the responsibilities of motherhood” when she has NO IDEA what that’s really like.
You might find this hard to believe, but the average single mother in this country does not lounge around her parent’s home, lazy and unemployed, for over TWO YEARS while she toys with the idea of getting an education and a job.
The Spoiled Princess has NO CLUE…
Posted by: Laura at December 23, 2007 9:34
Yeah, Laura, and it’s absurd for the woman who has never even HAD a child at all, to have the audacity to admonish a hard working, loving mother for being “a spoiled princess” and “having no clue”, when Laura herself herself has NO IDEA what that’s really like to raise a child, with or without the support of a loving family….
“Mrs. ChildFree” has NO CLUE…
In the 1960s were the Christmases I first remember.
Why is it assumed a single mother has only the option of “section 8” housing?
Not all single mothers are financially strapped. Or uneducated. Or unemployed. Some marry, either the father of their child or another man. Some actually get support from the child’s father.
Others have family help.
Bethany and I pointed out that we encounter teens and young women who want to become pregnant. What’s sad is they all too often have some fantasy as to what is involved in caring for and supporting a child. These are the women who end up on welfare when their fantasy world doesn’t materialize.
The notion that these girls have babies to get welfare is absurd. Most of the ones I encountered didn’t plan that well.
At the CPC I encountered married women, single women, women who were overjoyed at a positive test, those who were devastated, educated women, poor women, and women in excellent financial circumstances.
We did not “cheerlead” women through pregnancy and then drop them when the baby was born. I had more than a few mothers continue to call and return to the CPC for needed supplies, as well as use our follow up referral services.
The mothers alway had our number and could always contact a volunteer.
I gave an example in an earlier post of a client who aborted, then returned to the CPC for help coping with her depression. A volunteer was there for her throughout her ordeal.
Some simply chose to discontinue any contact or felt no need for further contact.
Yeah, Laura, and it’s absurd for the woman who has never even HAD a child at all, to have the audacity to admonish a hard working, loving mother for being “a spoiled princess” and “having no clue”, when Laura herself herself has NO IDEA what that’s really like to raise a child, with or without the support of a loving family….
“Mrs. ChildFree” has NO CLUE…
Posted by: Bethany at December 23, 2007 11:43 AM
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Uh, Bethany-
Why do you think I’m childfree?
Laura,
You’re delusional.
I don’t admonish anyone…and I don’t lounge around the house lazy at all. I don’t toy with the idea of getting an education or a job. I am in the process of getting an education to get a CAREER.
I will be back to write more later, right now I have to bear through the weather to get some stuff for Christmas dinner…oh wait I mean “lounge around the house all day.”
LOL
Man, I wish could lounge around the house all day being laxy, like I did as a child.
I got my first job @ 15, and have had one ever since then…
midnite-
I do know several people who are employed but I would call them lazy. I don’t really know why one assumes that just because someone has a job that they aren’t lazy. (laura) The only time I get to sit down during the day is when my daughter drags me by the hand over to her coloring book because she wants me to color with her. But I’m not complaining, I love being her mom and all the work that comes with it. Although, if you asked Laura, I’m sure that wouldn’t be much. I really don’t worry much about her opinion. She jumps at the chance to belittle people.
Midnite, I know what you mean. I think about those summers we had off between school years….
Next month it’s 30 years since I was out of college…. sheesh.
My brothers and I got new bikes one Christmas, and in Youngstown, OH, where we lived, the new I-680 interstate highway was being built.
It was almost done, really just needed the lines painted on the road, and no traffic could get on it yet.
We went down there, threaded our way through the barricades, and went down the looong hill toward the river. Probably 40 MPH but it felt like 100, it felt like our minds were the wind.
Doug 12:13pm
Is it possible your mother is grateful to the “other woman”, your stepmother, so that is why she is so nice to her? I have thanked more than a few “other women” in my lifetime, and still am.
Also there’s a great saying. If you want to punish the “other woman”, let her have him!!
Mary, I think in the end it just amounts to everybody realizing that what happened was for the best. It was my mom, dad, and we four kids, and it wasn’t “easy” for the family to break up, such as it was – it was hard especially on my sister (the youngest at the time) and the youngest brother, but when all was said and done people were happier than before, and cognizant that they were almost surely happier than they would have been had things not changed.
Doug
Doug,
So often that is the case. The initial decision to end a marriage can be difficult and painful, but in the long run it can be the very best decision. I’ve seen it time and again. That seems to have been the case with your parents. Its great that your mother developed a friendship with your stepmother. At least it kept things civilized. I have seen these things get very ugly and it makes everyone’s lives miserable. Some people just refuse to move on.
A very dear friend of mine was devastated when her husband left her for another woman. He had been a tomcat for years. I told her he did her the biggest favor of her life and let this “other woman” put up with him. What better revenge!
“Jasper, there were some bad ones near what used to be my employer’s headquarters. Big long buildings, windows and screens busted out on the outside. On the inside, big holes had been hacked through the interior walls separating the apartments – that way drug dealers could walk through the whole place without being seen going in and out of the front doors. Heck of a way to live….”
Then the place should be condemed Doug. Much of the section 8 housing is really not bad at all.
I don’t know why you all get so upset over Laura’s comments. It should be obvious to everyone by now, that she is a very unhappy person and thrives on negative attention.
Just ignore her posts. I do.
This is true, Mike. I will work on that and try to be the bigger person.
Elizabeth,
You already are.
Everyone,
Have a very Merry Christmas and joyous holiday season. Best wishes for the new year.
I tried to cover all my bases, I hope no one has been offended (Barbara Walters).
Ha! Bless you, Mary. You and I have had our disagreements, but we’re on the same page about many things too.
And you’re right – Barbara Walters.
:: laughing ::
Just because the media doesn’t have your bias doesn’t mean the media is biased. =)
So Edyt, if all channels on TV, newspapers, etc were like Fox news, you wouldn’t say that the media was conservatively biased?
Sally, 12:08am
We could go on forever arguing who is a “real” single mother or an unmarried one. Who struggled more than who. Its absurd.
Elizabeth is a single mother who has advantages you unfortunately didn’t have. You as a single mother had advantages compared to the circumstances of other women. I in no way trivialize your hardships or accomplishments in spite of them.
There were married mothers as myself who had life considerably easier than me, there were those who had it considerably more difficult.
I would have sold my soul for the help and support some women get. Hey, life ain’t fair.
And nothing set my teeth on edge more than hearing how Madame Celebrity “manages” a career and motherhood and how she can look so wonderful after having a baby. Gag me. I lost a lot of weight post partum too but it wasn’t because of visits to my personal trainer while the nanny watched the kids and the housekeeper tended my home.
Now are we going to argue over who is a “real” mother and who isn’t?
Oh, and thank you for the support! (12:23am)
Posted by: Mary at December 23, 2007 8:09 AM
…………………………………………..
I’m really glad that you got my point that situations are different from one woman’s life situation to another, Making it impossible to judge with any kind of wisdom without extensive understanding.
I’m really lucky that I didn’t need to loose a lot of weight after the birth of my children. I’ve always been very active and aware of proper nutrition. That isn’t bragging, just the way that I always have been. I’ve always been my own personal trainer. And nutritionist for that matter.
Thank you very much Sally, and I am sorry you had to struggle so much as a single mother. Our struggles may have been different in nature, but they still help make us who we are. I know all of my struggles have made me a better person in the long run, and I hope you feel that way as well.
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 23, 2007 9:05 AM
……………………………………………..
Hmmm. Do you think that overcoming more struggles makes you a better person than one that has overcome fewer? Do you find it important?
I don’t think it is for me to decide whether my struggles were harder than someone else’s. If someone struggles, they obviously feel it in ways that I may not..so why do I have to be better for having struggled more? Or why does someone have to be less for not having struggled the way I have or the way you have? Everybody has their own personal battles to fight. Some people’s are bigger than others..that’s just the way it goes. I can only walk around in my shoes so as long as I can learn something from my own struggles, I feel as though for myself I’m a better person for having gone through it. That doesn’t mean I feel I’m better or less than anyone else. I hope that answers your question, if not feel free to respond.
Or why does someone have to be less for not having struggled the way I have
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You live a live of lesiure and privledge that perhaps 1-2% of all adult Americans enjoy.
You’ve done nothing to earn it.
What is this “struggle” you keep mentioning?
Where do I sign up so I can “struggle” like YOU?
You live a live of lesiure and privledge that perhaps 1-2% of all adult Americans enjoy.
You’ve done nothing to earn it.
What is this “struggle” you keep mentioning?
Where do I sign up so I can “struggle” like YOU?
Sounds like bitter jealousy, Laura. Why are you jealous of Elizabeth, Laura? Was your family not supportive of you when you were a teenager? I ask this question in sincerity, even though I am a bit defensive after reading yet another bitter post from you towards her.
Why do you feel a need for Elizabeth to go through intense suffering (to YOUR specifications) before you approve of her life?
Why can you not support her for making her CHOICES in life? Where is this love and support for WOMEN that you love to claim you have (or does this love for women only apply to abortion supporters? I thought you cared about women, Laura. I thought you were a “feminist”.
Most people understand that a true feminist would be happy to know that a girl is going to college and doing what she possibly can to make her child’s life the best it can be until she can make it even better.
Elizabeth is taking care of her daughter, and making sure that every minute her child is surrounded by people who love her (she’s not throwing her off at some daycare stranger, but her own grandmother who is more than delighted to take the time with her granddaughter).
From what I can tell, Elizabeth is not taking any of your tax-payer money, Laura. Would you be happier if she was doing so? I mean, really, Laura, what is your problem with Elizabeth? Please do share. I do assume that is is mainly bitter jealousy, but I’d like to hear your story, from your perspective.
Maybe you could shed some light this Christmas night and let us know why you feel the need to try to ruin Elizabeth’s Christmas just because you have had issues at home.
Sounds like bitter jealousy, Laura. Why are you jealous of Elizabeth, Laura? Was your family not supportive of you when you were a teenager?
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You think Elizabeth’s story is typical of all single mothers, don’t you?
I bet you tell all the women in crisis at your CPC just how easy-peasy, unemployed, and responsibility-free single motherhood is.
Answer my question, then I’ll answer yours with no problem. :)
By the way, I do hope your Christmas was a good one, Laura.
Laura,
I don’t have to justify any of my personal struggles with you. Why would I share anything with you? Just so you can attack me again? Haha sorry, but I don’t need all the things I’ve been through in my life mocked by the likes of you. I’m sorry you can’t stand the fact that I have a loving family that is willing to help me while I work towards my goals. Frankly, that’s your problem, not mine.
Bethany-
Thank you..it does sound very much like jealousy to me as well. I doubt Laura would explain herself, though. I am very sorry Laura feels such anger towards someone she only “knows” through the internet though..that is a lot of energy to waste in my opinion.
By the way, I do hope your Christmas was a good one, Laura.
Posted by: Bethany at December 26, 2007 1:46 AM
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We haven’t had it yet.
I come from a family of first-responders and other crisis personnel.
Anyway, we all work Christmas so that people with small children can be home for the holidays. The big, loud, drunken, Mexican-food-and-fireworks-festival occurs all New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day. (My late father used to save his change all year to put in the family pinata. It usually weighed a metric ton. We’re accustomed to losing a child or two every year in a tragic, pinata-related incident…)
I’ll throw back a margarita in your honor.
An additional note about CPCs, the pregnancy resource center where I volunteered also had parenting and budgeting classes to help these girls/women prepare for parenting. Also, we provided clothing (including seasonal clothing), diapers, emergency formula and baby food, bottles & breast pumps, a wide assortment of hygiene items (diapers, diaper wipes, baby shampoo, thermometer and fever kit, baby hygiene kit, diaper rash cream, etc), crib bedding and linens,, blanekts furniture (cribs & matresses, changing tables, car seats, etc), pregnancy and parenting books and videos, which she could come any time for up to three years after the pregnancy and ongoing referalls to financial, housing, medical, and educational resources in the community. This is certainly more than PP offers.
Myths and Facts About Pregnancy Resource Centers
http://rsnider.livejournal.com/4365.html
“Anyway, we all work Christmas so that people with small children can be home for the holidays.”
…and we pay Laura’s salary so she can have a job.
“We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” – Winston Churchill
May be a misquotation.
…and we pay Laura’s salary so she can have a job.
Posted by: jasper at December 26, 2007 9:30 PM
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Since WHEN do you pay my salary Jasper?
taxes….do they not?
taxes….do they not?
Posted by: jasper at December 27, 2007 1:16 AM
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No, they do not.
…But you might remind those returning Iraq War veterans that you feel they owe you a debt of gratitude for paying their salaries!
Mods, I’ve got a post in awaiting approval (don’t know why since I’ve posted here before and have enabled cookies…mmm, cookies…LOL)