Cleft palette/club foot = death penalty
by Steven Ertelt
From LifeNews.com, February 4:
A report from Britain shows that 66 babies were born alive on one year alone after abortions done with public money under the nation’s health care system
The British National Health Service says women were given drugs to soften their cervix and had labor induced to birth the child so prematurely that there is no way to provide enough care for the child to live.
After birth, the babies received no medical care or attention, the report indicated….
According to the Evening Standard newspaper, the babies in these abortions mostly involved unborn children who suffered from severe physical or mental disabilities, some of which may have been life-threatening.
However, the newspaper said the report showed some of the babies had very minor issues such as a club foot or cleft palate that could easily be repaired with surgery after birth.
Half of the babies survived for an hour or more and one infant breathed without medical help for ten hours before dying.
After nurse Jill Stanek discovered staff at a Chicago hospital left babies to die after such live birth abortions, Congress passed and President Bush signed a bill to ensure that any infant who survives an abortion must be given appropriate medical care.
[HT: Mary Kay Hastings]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Heaven forbid we might have to look at a scar or watch someone limp!!!
If they really wanted the child, even wanted it enough to go so far into the pregnancy why abort for a cleft lip? Things don’t add up.
Jess, I would imagine it’s because they “wanted” a beautiful, perfect child. “wanted” being the key word here. Things like this are precisely why the slogan “every child a wanted child” should instead be “every child a welcomed child”. When you want a child, you’re wanting something for yourself. When you’re welcoming a child, you love them unconditionally.
I think I remember actually seeing guttmacher talking about the amount of women who abort for reasons such as cleft palette. I’ll have to search around and see if I can find it again. Hard to believe, but yes, sickeningly, it is true. Not that all abortions aren’t sickening.
http://www.ppl.org/PJune_PostViability_2001.html
Why are abortions done after viability? Theoretical reasons fall into three categories: life or health of the mother, fetal abnormality, or socio-economic reasons. According to Dr. Martin Haskell, who has performed over 700 “D&X” abortions, 80% of these are “purely elective” and 20% are for genetic reasons.3 According to testimony given before Congress by the late Dr. James McMahon who did over 2000 “intact D&E” procedures, 9% were for maternal health reasons (most commonly depression) and 56% were for “fetal flaws” (some as minor as a cleft lip4).
3) STENBERG, v. CARHART United States Supreme Court Amicus Brief February 28, 2000 No. 99-830 BRIEF AMICI CURIAE of Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Illinois State Medical Society, Physicians Ad Hoc Coalition for Truth, Christian Medical and Dental Society, Catholic Medical Association, Physicians Resource Council of Focus on the Family, Pennsylvania Physicians Resource Council, Physicians Research Council of the Indiana Family Institute, New Jersey Physicians Resource Council, Oklahoma Physicians Resource Council, Texas Physicians Resource Council, Wisconsin Physicians Resource Council, Drs. Kathi A. Aultman, Gerard Black, Watson A. Bowes, Joseph M. Casey, Byron Calhoun, Steven Calvin, William F. Colliton, Jr., Curtis Cook, Peter R. DeMarco, Fred de Miranda, Eugene F. Diamond, Timothy Fisher, Don Gambrell, Joseph R. McCaslin, Phillip McNeeley, Phillip Mets, Robert Orr, Edmund Pellegrino, Nancy Romer, Pamela Smith, LeRoy Sprang, Dennis D. Weisenburger, and Joseph R. Zanga, IN Amicus Brief Fianelli DM. Bill banning partial-birth abortions goes to Clinton, American Medical News. April 15, 1996:9, 10. P.27
4) Ibid; Statement of representative Charles T. Canady (R-Fla). Congressional Record; July 24, 1996 quoted in Sprang, p.74
In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women in the United States who came to clinics to have abortions. Of the 1,900, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons why they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:[3]
* 71% Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
* 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
* 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
* 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
* 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
* 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
* 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
* 6% Woman didn’t know timing is important
* 5% Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion
* 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
* 11% Other
Notice that when fetal problems are diagnosed, it’s late in the pregnancy.
Which would explain why the parents who abort for cleft lip, do it so late in the term.
This is so sad, its sickening! I have a nephew who will turn 7 this April, that was born with a cleft lip. He had surgery when he was 4 months old. He does have a few problems (speech and some hearing problems) but he’s a very sweet boy. He’s in the first grade and due to me, is a tad obsessed with Star Wars.
Cleft lip can be repaired by surgery. What’s wrong with imperfection?
I wonder what percentage of the women above are liars. Especially out of that 71% bunch.
I’ll bet there’s a big percentage that figured they could wait until they started showing, so why rush?
And out of the 48%, how many just couldn’t find the time out of their busy personal schedules, to take a couple days off for an abortion? I mean, I heard the “after-period” flows pretty heavy. In the summertime, that could be another couple of weeks before one is back in commission!
Bethany,
People should know that no child is perfect and even the most beautiful babies can suffer horrific accidents. What then? If they become disfigured at 12 will they just turn them out?
“every child a welcomed child”
That sounds good to me.
People should know that no child is perfect and even the most beautiful babies can suffer horrific accidents. What then? If they become disfigured at 12 will they just turn them out?
oh my goodness, Jess…you’re starting to understand how we feel!
“every child a welcomed child”
That sounds good to me.
Posted by: Jess 6:46 PM
Me too!
Man, I had a baby-rific day today. First my classmate Natasha brought her 6-month old son Ryder into class for a while, and we all cooed and played with him. He was flipping adorable. Then later, at work, one of the bartenders came in to pick up his paycheck, and he had his 3 month old daughter Nia with him. More cooing and playing ensued.
It was baby-tastic!
Congratulations Erin! It sounds delicious!
There is a couple from my church who have a 22 year old daughter who is mentally retarded. Their doctor practically insisted that she abort when they discovered it, but they refused.
I see this “girl” every Sunday, and she is the most loving human being you’d ever want to meet.She is capable of doing an enormous amount of things for herself and everyone who meets her is struck by how awesome she is.
I am almost envious of her because she is always happy and smiling and unaware of the cruelty of the real world…
Mike,
One of the reasons I went into Special Education. I volunteered with so many individuals with Down Syndrome. So innocent, so loving and caring and giving. They are a blessing to know!!
Carla,
I was at the gym yesterday and there was an adult with Down Syndrome. She was on an exercise bike. She would get so excited when the exercise bike told her she completed a lap. It just made me smile because she had only burned about 50 calories but she was overjoyed that she completed 10 laps. In college I volunteered for Special Olympics. It was a lot of fun! One mentally challenged man came in second to last place. But it was so excited. I told him “great job!” He smiled and said, “I did that for my girlfriend”
A mentor of mine, Soili Arvola, was born with a clubfoot. She went on to become a principal dancer and won bronze in a world ballet competition. Now she teaches, designs and makes costumes, and choreographs entirely new ballets.
I’d say she’s doing fine.
pip,
I can’t remember the dancer’s name but she was a famous ballet dancer and she was blind. BLIND.
I find it really odd that we are so happy when people who have disabilities overcome the odds and lead happy lives….and yet, we want to get rid of them for the exact same thing: their disability. We’d probably hear a ton more stories that inspire us all if people would stop aborting them.
Jess –
“If they really wanted the child, even wanted it enough to go so far into the pregnancy why abort for a cleft lip? Things don’t add up.”
Do you say the same thing when you hear that the CDC reports that 80 – 90% of Down Syndrom babies are aborted?
Do you say the same thing when you hear that the AMA CANNOT find ONE reason for life/health of mother to abort after viability?
Do you say the same thing when you hear that in 20 years over 10 million females were aborted in India? (some reports say that all happened in 10 years.)
Do you say the same thing when you hear that some states include cleft lip, down sydrom, club foot, etc in their stats for “gross fetal deformity”?
Do you say the same thing when you hear that according to the CDC 2004 MMWR report (the most recent year reported) that in 44 out of 52 reporting area’s there were 8,365 abortions after viability? (reporting area’s are all states including D.C. and NY City – the City reports seperately because of the non-residence abortions would incorrectly change NY states statistics – California, which in their last years of reporting data had 17% of all US abortions are not included in this.)
It’s all about choice right? It is the mother’s choice to choose a perfect baby. If her baby isn’t perfect she can abort because of it. Can anyone say eugenics?
OH – and according to the latest genetic science reports, we now know the gene that causes blue eyes! Imagine, aborting becuase the fetus is going to have brown eyes. We already abort because the fetus is a girl and not a boy, why not abort because of eye color.
(on a side note – according to certain reports, blue eyed people are from a genetic mutation http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/01/30/scieyes130.xml )
420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks
******
Suddenly ’16 or more’ weeks is synonymous with potential viability? Could we have some honesty here? Of course not!
Do you say the same thing when you hear that the AMA CANNOT find ONE reason for life/health of mother to abort after viability?
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What does the ACOG say? Or doesnt the opinion of ob/gyns matter more than the opinion of ENTs, heart surgeons, cancer specialists and sports medicine specialists on this subject? And just what does ‘viability’ mean in this case? or did you mean POTENTIAL viability?
Why are abortions done after viability?
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And just what does ‘viability’ mean in this context? What point in gestation?
Presbyterians Pro-Life
Posted November 16, 2001
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Oh yeah – a source like that is going to be SO “honest” and SO “objective”! ROFLMAO!
TR,
Oh yeah – a source like that is going to be SO “honest” and SO “objective”! ROFLMAO!
Well, as long as you’re enjoying yourself…
They say this…
February 13, 1984
President Ronald Reagan
The White House
Washington, DC
Mr. President:
As physicians, we, the undersigned, are pleased to associate
ourselves with you in drawing the attention of people across
the nation to the humanity and sensitivity of the human
unborn.
That the unborn, the prematurely born, and the newborn of the
human species is a highly complex, sentient, functioning,
individual organism is established scientific fact. That the
human unborn and newly born do respond to stimuli is also
established beyond any reasonable doubt.
The ability to feel pain and respond to it is clearly not a
phenomenon that develops de novo at birth. Indeed, much of
enlightened modern obstetrical practice and procedure seeks to
minimize sensory deprivation of, and sensory insult to, the
fetus during, at, and after birth. Over the last 18 years, real
time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG
(electrocardiogram) and fetal EEG (electroencephalogram) have
demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus
to pain, touch, and sound. That the fetus responds to changes
in light intensity within the womb, to heat, to cold, and to
taste (by altering the chemical nature of the fluid swallowed
by the fetus) has been exquisitely documented in the pioneering
work of the late Sir William Liley — the father of fetology.
Observations of the fetal electrocardiogram and the increase in
fetal movements in saline abortions indicate that the fetus
experiences discomfort as it dies. Indeed, one doctor who, the
New York Times wrote, “conscientiously performs” saline
abortions stated, “When you inject the saline, you often see an
increase in fetal movements, it’s horrible.”
We state categorically that no finding of modern fetology
invalidates the remarkable conclusion drawn after a lifetime of
research by the late Professor Arnold Gesell of Yale
University. In “The Embryology of Behavior: The Beginnings of
the Human Mind” (1945, Harper Bros.), Dr. Gesell wrote, “and so
by the close of the first trimester the fetus is a sentient,
moving being. We need not speculate as to the nature of his
psychic attributes, but we may assert that the organization of
his psychosomatic self is well under way.”
Mr. President, in drawing attention to the capability of the
human fetus to feel pain, you stand on firmly established
ground.
Respectfully,
Dr. Richard T. F. Schmidt, Past President, A.C.O.G., Professor of Ob/Gyn,
University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, OH
Dr. Vincent Collins, Professor of Anesthesiology, Northwestern University,
University of Illinois Medical Center
Dr. John G. Masterson, Clinical Professor of Ob/Gyn, Northwestern University
Dr. Bernard Nathanson, F.A.C.O.G., Clinical Assistant Professor of Ob/Gyn,
Cornell University
Dr. Denis Cavanaugh, F.A.C.O.G., Professor of Ob/Gyn, University of South
Florida
Dr. Watson Bowes, F.A.C.O.G., Professor of Material and Fetal Medicine,
University of North Carolina
Dr. Byron Oberst, Assistant Clinical Professor of Pediatrics, University of
Nebraska
Dr. Eugene Diamond, Professor of Pediatrics, Strict School of Medicine,
Chicago, IL
Dr. Thomas Potter, Associate Clinical Professor of Pediatrics, New Jersey
Medical College
Dr. Lawrence Dunegan, Instructor of Clinical Pediatrics, University of
Pittsburgh
Dr. Melvin Thornton, Professor of Clinical Pediatrics, University of Texas (San
Antonio)
Dr. Norman Vernig, Assistant Professor of Pediatrics, University of Minnesota
(St. Paul)
Dr. Jerome Shen, Clinical Professor of Pediatrics, St. Louis University
Dr. Fred Hofmeister, Past President, A.C.O.G., Professor of Ob/Gyn, University
of Wisconsin (Milwaukee)
Dr. Matthew Bulfin, F.A.C.O.G., Lauderdale by the Sea, FL
Dr. Jay Arena, Professor Emeritus of Pediatrics, Duke University
Dr. Herbert Nakata, Assistant Professor of Clinical Pediatrics, University of
Hawaii
Dr. Robert Polley, Clinical Instructor of Pediatrics, University of Washington
(Seattle)
Dr. David Foley, Professor of Ob/Gyn, University of Wisconsin (Milwaukee)
Dr. Anne Bannon, F.A.A.P., Former Chief of Pediatrics, CityHospital (St.
Louis)
Dr. John J. Brennan, Professor of Ob/Gyn, Medical College of Wisconsin,
(Milwaukee)
Dr. Walter F. Watts, Assistant Professor of Ob/Gyn, Strict School of Medicine,
Chicago, IL
Dr. G. C. Tom Nabors, Assistant Clinical Professor of Ob/Gyn, Southwestern
Medical College, Dallas, TX
Dr. Konald Prem, Professor of Ob/Gyn, University of Minnesota (Minneapolis)
Dr. Alfred Derby, F.A.C.O.G., Spokane, WA
Dr. Bernie Pisani, F.A.C.O.G., President, NY State Medical Society, Professor
of Ob/Gyn, New York University
TR –
“What does the ACOG say? Or doesnt the opinion of ob/gyns ”
News Flash – OB/GYNS are members of the AMA however I did check with the ACOG and they seem to only have an opinion on health of mother before 16 weeks gestation. If you know the answer for after 16 weeks, you can post it. I didn’t have too much time for a complete research.
“And just what does ‘viability’ mean in this case? or did you mean POTENTIAL viability?”
The AMA considers anything over 23 weeks gestation as viablility. So, I will assume that is what they meant when they said viability.
Any reports I refer to are from the CDC, Guttmatcher or AMA – unless otherwise stated. All these institutions have viability has anything after 23 weeks.
The doctors listed above deserve a letter of thanks for their courageous stand for Life. God bless all OB/GYN’s.
The AMA considers anything over 23 weeks gestation as viablility. So, I will assume that is what they meant when they said viability.
*************************
The ACOG is made up of only ob/gyns – the AMA isnt. Having the AMA make a statement about the ‘necessity’ of abortion really doesnt mean much since the vast majority of doctors jobs have nothing at all to do with pregnancy or abortion. Would you like to tell me how much YOU think an ENT would know about crisis pregnancies? And according to the last figures I read, at 23 weeks the chance of viability is less than 15%. An 85% chance of not surviving doesnt sound all that ‘viable’.
Well, as long as you’re enjoying yourself…
Posted by: mk at February 7, 2008 10:45 AM
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I laugh at you every time I ‘come over’ here. It reminds me why its so good to be pro choice.
A Systematic Multidisciplinary Review of the Evidence
Susan J. Lee, JD; Henry J. Peter Ralston, MD; Eleanor A. Drey, MD, EdM; John Colin Partridge, MD, MPH; Mark A. Rosen, MD
JAMA. 2005;294:947-954.
Context Proposed federal legislation would require physicians to inform women seeking abortions at 20 or more weeks after fertilization that the fetus feels pain and to offer anesthesia administered directly to the fetus. This article examines whether a fetus feels pain and if so, whether safe and effective techniques exist for providing direct fetal anesthesia or analgesia in the context of therapeutic procedures or abortion.
Evidence Acquisition Systematic search of PubMed for English-language articles focusing on human studies related to fetal pain, anesthesia, and analgesia. Included articles studied fetuses of less than 30 weeks
As an aside, a ‘cleft palate’ can leave the entire face open from chin to forehead with a gaping hole where the nose should be, and the sinus cavities exposed and it can be fatal – saying a cleft palate is only a ‘minor’ issue isnt being honest.
The doctors listed above deserve a letter of thanks for their courageous stand for Life. God bless all OB/GYN’s.
Posted by: Janet at February 7, 2008 1:52 PM
************************
The ACOG announced in a public policy statement that while the D&X abortion was never the ONLY option, it was sometimes the best option available and WHEN the D&X procedure should be used should be determined by the doctor and the patient. Yes, bless all OB/GYNs for caring about the welfare of women.
http://wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/cleft_palate.htm
As an aside, a ‘cleft palate’ can leave the entire face open from chin to forehead with a gaping hole where the nose should be, and the sinus cavities exposed and it can be fatal – saying a cleft palate is only a ‘minor’ issue isnt being honest.
Well then, by all means off with his head! He cannot be allowed to live. Think of the small children that would have to see him! Horrors!
I laugh at you every time I ‘come over’ here. It reminds me why its so good to be pro choice.
I am to please…if it makes you laugh, it makes me laugh. If you’re happy, I’m happy. Anything else I can do for ya?
elizabeth, I couldn’t agree more!!
TR –
“The ACOG is made up of only ob/gyns – the AMA isnt. Having the AMA make a statement about the ‘necessity’ of abortion really doesnt mean much since the vast majority of doctors jobs have nothing at all to do with pregnancy or abortion.”
The AMA has surgeons who treat women with pregnancy related problems, say a woman has an appendicistis while pregnant….It’s not the OB/GYN that does that surgery. How about the woman is in a car accident, should it only be an OB/GYN who can treat her? What you are missing here is all the specialities that deal with pregancy that are not OB/GYN’s especially if dealing with a baby with deformities. This is why the AMA is more informed than an organization with only one speciality. I would also want the opinions of Doctors who specialize in pediatrics to have a say on the status of how well a baby will do after delivery, especially since we are talking about viability. Also, when dealing with life of the mother it would be considered malpractice if an OB/GYN does not consult a specialist in the field that is causing the life/health problem. This late in pregnancy it is usually a factor that has nothing to do with pregnancy that is causing the life/health problems. Cancer is a perfect example.
“Would you like to tell me how much YOU think an ENT would know about crisis pregnancies?”
Actually an ENT does know a thing or two about pregnancy. Any doctor that does surgery does. It is an ENT that will be called to assist in facial surgery if a prenant woman is in a car accident. An ENT also does Tosillectomys, Tracheostomy, and any other medical conditions of the head and neck. They need to know alot about how these sort of procedures may affect a pregnant woman. OB/GYN’s are not the only professionals that deal
with pregant women or their babies; born and unborn.
“And according to the last figures I read, at 23 weeks the chance of viability is less than 15%. An 85% chance of not surviving doesnt sound all that ‘viable’.
I believe I said AFTER 23 weeks. This would mean 24 weeks and beyond. Here are the survival prognosis of prematurity at 24 weeks and beyond:
http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/transform.jsp?requestURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/prematurity.jsp
24 weeks: 40-70% survival rate
25 weeks: 50-80% survival rate
26 weeks: 80-90% survival rate
27 weeks: greater than 90% survival rate
I believe that 24 weeks and beyond would be considered viable.
“As an aside, a ‘cleft palate’ can leave the entire face open from chin to forehead with a gaping hole where the nose should be, and the sinus cavities exposed and it can be fatal – saying a cleft palate is only a ‘minor’ issue isnt being honest. ”
Talk about over dramatising and being dishonest!
http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/medical/ears/cleft_lip_palate.html
The good news is that both cleft lip and cleft palate are treatable birth defects. Most kids who are born with these conditions can have reconstructive surgery within the first 12 to 18 months of life to correct the defect and significantly improve facial appearance.
http://www.marchofdimes.com/professionals/14332_1210.asp
Surgery can correct cleft lip/palate and isolated cleft palate.
http://www.cleftline.org/publications/newborn
A cleft lip can usually be repaired in the first few months of life. A cleft palate can usually be repaired some months later.
hmmm…. None of these give any information about a Cleft lip or Palate not being treatable. Should a baby die just because he will have a scar from the surgeries to treat this?
Texas Red`said:
***********
As an aside, a ‘cleft palate’ can leave the entire face open from chin to forehead with a gaping hole where the nose should be, and the sinus cavities exposed and it can be fatal – saying a cleft palate is only a ‘minor’ issue isnt being honest.
Posted by: TexasRed at February 7, 2008 2:18 PM
**********
Red,
Nobody is saying that it can’t be serious. We are only saying that their life is worth no less than yours just cause they have cleft palate. Or do you think you are somehow better then them?
I would not give birth to something that isn’t “perfect”.
Why?
Because I couldn’t handle it emotionally when something happens to it (it because it could be either gender, or possibly both) and I’d want my offspring to have the best possible start in life. My mother did this for me, I will do it for my own offspring.
Grace,
Ouch. I guess I don’t deserve to live, then.
none of us do then, I always wished my eyes were blue instead of brown….
Yeah taking pills every night is such a devastation for my parents. It’s like they wish I was never born..
Grace,
Of course as new moms we all hope for that “perfect” child. But ask anyone with children – they don’t exist. We all have our quirks. Children are meant to be loved no matter what deficiencies they might have.
We discovered I had epilepsy at age 11. I guess they could have just killed me then. You know, it’s so hard on THEM. How could THEY possibly deal with MY disease.
I think no body its perfect in one way or another we all have something that is not good enough for our exigent minds. I think having a child with cleft lip and other abnormalities its very hard and I applause anybody who has gotten throught this route, But I believe that GOD give us life ANd God must take it. Not a Doctor who the only thing he is doing and trying to get 200,300 or whatever the price is.Ladies my question is Its that much how you child,ovaries, uterus and placenta are worth?. And not only that, whould you ever have peace of mind?. Do you even think That there is people nowdays that would love to have a child and they can’t concieve. And if you ever ask them they would not care if it comes with down syndrome , cleft palete, retardation or anything else. There is something worse than that aborting a form baby, it beign the person who does it because what other people are going to think or say about you…Think other are not going to pay for your own mistakes and when God passes judment upon you, you will be the only one up there