Is abortion a sin?
Ellison Research has conducted a nationwide poll of 1,000 adults asking them to rank 30 behaviors as sinful or not. Sin was defined as, “something that is almost always considered wrong, particularly from a religious or moral perspective.”
I’m sad the percentage of those thinking abortion is wrong is so low. Still, if over half of America agree, does that not constitute a pro-life majority?
This was also interesting, indicating moderates are more amenable to conservative political positions than liberal…
One of the biggest differences in whether people believe in the concept of sin is actually not even religious, but political. Among political conservatives, 94% believe there is such a thing as sin. This is also true among 89% of moderates. But only 77% of political liberals believe in the concept of sin.
And this, too, was interesting:
Protestants are more likely than Roman Catholics to include most of the 30 different behaviors as sin – sometimes dramatically so. The biggest differences include gambling (50% of Protestant churchgoers define this as sinful, compared to just 15% of Catholics), failing to tithe 10% or more of one’s income (32% to 9%), getting drunk (63% to 28%), gossip (70% to 45%), and homosexual activity or sex (72% to 49%). Catholics and Protestants are equally likely (or unlikely) to list as sin having an abortion…. Catholics are more likely than Protestants to believe that failing to attend church is a sin (39% to 23%).
I don’t know why Protestants are more clear on what constitutes sin than Catholics, which is not to say they sin any less. But I do remember feeling culture shock as a Protestant when being invited by Catholic friends to attend their church’s Las Vegas Night fundraiser – in the church basement, complete with a bar. And the one clear difference between Catholic and Protestant pro-life fundraisers is the alcohol or lack thereof.
[HT: proofer Angela]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
EEk, I made the list;/
I’d rank abortion[s] and adultry as the top sins.
Jill,
Catholics don’t call it tithing. We do it, but don’t call it tithing, so that may be why we scored lower on that. We have Sunday envelopes, fundraisers, and yes, even gambling…lol. All of these would probably be considered tithing by you. (Well, maybe not the gambling)
As far as gambling goes, no we don’t view it as sinful, providing it is done responsibly. If you’re gambling away your grocery money, it’s a different story.
The homosexual one throws me, tho. Don’t know why we’re not clear on that one.
And as for getting drunk…The Church thinks it’s a sin, but most Catholics don’t realize it.
It’s important to note that Church teaching says that Homosexual activity and drunkeness are indeed sins.
What shocks me is that protestants don’t think skipping church on Sunday is a sin…
Well, my mom is a Protestant, and my dad is was a Catholic. I was allowed to follow whichever region I so chose. I went to both churches. I’m a mutt.
Indeed. Contributing money (or tithing) is one of the precepts of the church.
“And as for getting drunk…The Church thinks it’s a sin, but most Catholics don’t realize it.”
Yes. However, drinking alcohol in moderation is not considered a sin. The difference is that becoming drunk darkens the intellect and weakens the will. It removes the very thing that separates us from monkeys i.e. our rational and we are much more prone to doing things that we wouldn’t normally do. Our intellect is a gift. Having a couple beers or a glass of wine with dinner does not cause this kind of lose of rational, and hence, is not considered sinful. Incidentally, this same logic is applied to the use of any kinds of mind-altering/illegal drugs. There is no such thing as only getting “a little” high. Once the pot hits your lips, you have darkened your intellect, and so any drugs of that nature (not used for some sort of medicinal purposes) would also be considered sinful.
But as far as Protestants having a better grasp of sin than Catholics, in general I would certainly agree. I blame it on that darn “spirit of Vatican II.”
>>I don’t know why Protestants are more clear on what constitutes sin than Catholics, which is not to say they sin any less
It’s not that protestants have a better understanding – it’s more a case of what is considered sin and what isn’t.. In other words, there are theological differences at play here.
It’s sort of like the conversation we had at the Dubliner about NFP – what one person considers sinful may not be sinful according to the beliefs of another.
Some of these “sins” could also simply be medical problems. Such as morbid obesity. Would anorexia make that list?
Another thing that was interesting is that Evavngelicals seem to think EVERYTHING is sinful while political liberals don’t think ANYTHING is…
Re: tithing, there is a definition: 10% of one’s income. There is disagreement whether that should be 10% of the gross or net, but that’s what tithing means, Biblically speaking and how Protestants understand the word. I think it should be 10% of the gross, btw. If we give a percentage of our gross to the government, why not a percentage of our gross to the Lord?
PS – That’s 10% to one’s home church. If one wants to give to other ministries, it should come out of the other 90%.
Can someone tell me how spanking your child is a sin?
Doesn’t the Bible say “spare the rod, spoil the child”?
Yea, suprised abortion doesn’t rank higher as well. I consider abortion to be gravely worse than adultery in that adultery does not involve the taking of a human life while abortion does.
Christina, good point.
Posted by: Christina at March 18, 2008 8:29 AM
Yea, suprised abortion doesn’t rank higher as well. I consider abortion to be gravely worse than adultery in that adultery does not involve the taking of a human life while abortion does.
PJMama: I agree with you Christina, but this seemingly puzzling disparity is a function of two things.
One is that adultery is explicitly listed as one of the ten commandments, thereby removing any question of whether God forbids it.
The other is that, although “thou shall not kill” is ALSO explicit (duh, it’s even FIRST on the list) there is a disagreement about whether abortion “kills” a human being. Science is slowly revealing that abortion does kill a human being, so public opinion I’m convinced will eventually switch over from the dark side into the pro-life light.
The whole abortion debate hinges on whether we can get society as a whole to accept the FACT that the unborn are in fact living human beings and not just clusters of undifferentiated cells that can be removed at will like tumors.
Thanks for the input PJmama
I read your other post on the experiment and scrolled through that blog too. Your story is very inspiring and I find it to be the true evidence of God’s amazing grace.
Yea, adultery being wrong in society is a little more “cut-and-dry” than abortion. Mainly because we have been fed the lies that a fetus is not really a person by the pro-abort community.
I always used to be opposed to abortion morally, but I never truly considered myself to be pro-life until I saw that first ultrasound of my daughter. Science is slowly revealing that the unborn are just as much human as the born, just in a much smaller, underdeveloped form.
It’s great to hear your story and glad to have you respond:) Your welcome anytime to contribute to my blog!
Mark 7:15
Alcohol and drugs cannot be sins according to these words of Jesus. The acts that people intoxicated with alcohol and drugs which harm others are the sins, not the substances themselves.
Well, I don’t make any of the Big Sins, but apparently I’ve sinned on a smaller scale. Whatever.
I think these stats are warped. I’d like to look into this study a little more.
“And the one clear difference between Catholic and Protestant pro-life fundraisers is the alcohol or lack thereof.”
As the great—and rather controversial—Catholic writer Hilaire Belloc once wrote:
“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There will always be laughter
And plenty of good red wine.”
Dancing???????
L…M…A…O!!!!!!!!
Ohhh yeah. I’m definitely going to hell… or something. Whatever.
I’m learning to belly dance. I suppose that MUST be sinful because not only is it beautiful (I mean LUSTY and SINFUL), but it is supposed to lessen the pain of childbirth. Wow. No one can save me now.
I’m sorry… I have to go. This is ridiculous. I’m going to die. I have to catch my breath.
Weeelllll ,if you don’t believe in transubstantiation, then you’d think we’re not just drinking in the basement of the church, but on the main level also. ;-)
As for the list of sins, it’s from people who are barely educated in their supposed religion, and can’t imagine that stuff they’ve done, or their close associates have done, is a sin. A lot of women have had an abortion at some time in their life, for example. A good number of people who aren’t really gay have tried the other kinds of sex too.
Watching an R-rated movie is a sin?
Come on.Many don’t even have any nudity or
exolicit sex,like “There Will Be Blood”.
And a little tasteful nudity is no big deal.
It won’t make men go out and rape women.
In Europe,people think we are ridiculous
prudes in America,and their abortion rates
(in western Europe and Scandinavia) are the
LOWEST in the world.
Leah, Jews drank wine. God even mandated a certain sacrifice of alcohol (Numbers 28:7). Some say wine was allowed because it was clean. Debatable.
Not debatable is that it is unacceptable to lose one’s faculties by drinking too much. Hosea 4:11: “Alcohol and prostitution have robbed my people of their brains.”
Same goes for drugs. The purpose of recreational drug use is to lose one’s faculties in some capacity or another. So using recreational drugs would be wrong.
Not to mention overuse of alcohol and drugs harms one’s body, described as God’s “temple.”
John, lol… :)
Discussions about what constitutes “sin” are interesting. I’d be curious about your (meaning you all who read and comment here) response to this article:
http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2008/03/09/when_science_meets_the_soul/
Basically, a doctor performed an open-heart surgery on one twin who, due to a circulation defect, would die upon birth without it. The kicker is that the doctor had to get a court order to force the parents to allow the surgery, since they are Jehovah’s Witnesses, and blood transfusions are prohibited by Acts 15:28-29. The parents believed the surgery and necessary transfusion to be a sin that would forfeit their chance to go to heaven.
Thoughts?
Jill,
>>Biblically speaking and how Protestants understand the word.
Well, tithe does mean 10% – however, in the old testament there ar three tithes – two annual and one every third year. On average, this accounts for 23.3 percent of one’s annual produce from the land.
(http://www.generousgiving.org/page.asp?sec=43&page=589)
Neither Catholics nor Protestants tithe 23% on average – obviously there are theological reasons why they don’t.
But this is a larger issue which deserves it’s own thread – or belongs in a different forum…
How many of that 56% are catholics who say abortion is a sin because its the position of the RCC that abortion is a sin? and how many of them still think abortion should be legal and available, even if they think the woman is ‘sinning’ by having an abortion?
Should people who think that smoking pot, or not ‘taking care’ of their body or getting drunk or whatever ‘is a sin’ be able to stop doing these things even if they do NOT view them as a sin?
Jill:
I understand what you’re saying and all that. However, Hosea 4:11 doesn’t really debate Mark 7:11–depending on your interpretation, it could even support. Alcohol, for example, can indeed rob a person of his brain, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it is a sin. It is when people allow an excess of alcohol to rob them of their brains that they sin because they go out and do stupid things like (in this day and age) drive drunk and end up running over a pedestrian.
Prostitution… I have qualms about the common view of prostitutes. Yes, yes, it creates problems and can break up families and cause harm and all that. But people misplace blame. Anyhow, that doesn’t relate.
I agree that misuse of drugs and alcohol are definitely harmful and wrong, but those are personal morals. Jesus said it was the acts afterwards that were the sins. If you really want to overindulge but you just sit there and don’t move, you’re only harming yourself. I certainly don’t advocate it, but what can be done?
By the way, I’m definitely listening to JC Superstar waaaaaaaay too loud and singing along. I love life. I really do. Ted Neely is my favorite.
Watching an R-rated movie is a sin?
Come on.Many don’t even have any nudity or
exolicit sex,like “There Will Be Blood”.
And a little tasteful nudity is no big deal.
It won’t make men go out and rape women.
In Europe,people think we are ridiculous
prudes in America,and their abortion rates
(in western Europe and Scandinavia) are the
LOWEST in the world.
AMEN!
Leah,
I think Jill said some good stuff in her 9:50 post, but I wanted to comment on Mark 7:15. In the context of the passage, starting in verse 1, we see that the Pharisees are complaining about the fact that Jesus’ disciples are eating food with unlcean hands and not observing the ceremonial washing. Jesus then goes on to explain the MEANING behind the ceremonial hand washing. We read in verse 14-15
14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean.’ “[f]
So Jesus’ point was that this hand washing ritual (while symbolizing cleanliness) is not what makes a person clean, yet his actions. Hence, Jesus allowing any and all drugs or alcohol doesn’t really fit the context of the passage, and we can see that even more by considering the verses that Jill mentioned. Hope that makes sense. God love you.
I’m sad the percentage of those thinking abortion is wrong is so low. Still, if over half of America agree, does that not constitute a pro-life majority?
Of course. And since 55% believe that premarital sex is not immoral, does that not constitute an anti-abstinence majority?
Leah,
If dancing is a sin then I am in for it big (I love to dance!!).
Dancing isn’t a sin though, by biblical definition.
Psalm 149:3 (ESV)
“Let them praise His name with dancing, making melody to him with tambourine and lyre.”
I don’t think God hates dancing at all. In fact, my 13 month old loves to dance. I think it is only natural.
It’s strange how some of these things came up as sins. Maybe some people were raised to think everything is wrong.
Leah, 10:11a: Agree on 1st paragraph. That’s what I was saying. There is a difference between drinking a glass of wine and drinking alcohol to access.
Now, about your 3rd paragraph, “I agree that misuse of drugs and alcohol are definitely harmful and wrong, but those are personal morals. Jesus said it was the acts afterwards that were the sins.”
“Personal morals,” now we get into it.
There are such things as personal sins. Two people can watch an R movie with a tub of popcorn, and the 1st will be sinning by watching the semi-nude scenes in the movie while the 2nd is unaffected by them; and the 2nd will be sinning by eating the popcorn because s/he has an unnatural affinity to food while the 1st is unaffeced by that.
Same with cards. Two people can play cards, and only 1 will be sinning by doing so because it feeds the desire to gamble.
Same with dancing, etc.
“There are such things as personal sins. Two people can watch an R movie with a tub of popcorn, and the 1st will be sinning by watching the semi-nude scenes in the movie while the 2nd is unaffected by them; and the 2nd will be sinning by eating the popcorn because s/he has an unnatural affinity to food while the 1st is unaffeced by that.”
Oh, very well said Jill!
Dancing? I thought that meant “stripper.”
Ruben, from the website you linked to:
The word “tithe” comes from an Old English root meaning “one tenth.” It is the common English translation for the Old Testament Hebrew asar word group. The tithe was an offering of one
Thanks, Bobby… :)
To southern baptists dancing is a sin, drinking is a sin, gambling is a sin – so is gamboling, ‘mixed bathing’ is a sin – that means males and females swimming together – swim suits encourage ‘sin’ – smoking is a sin – you know why southern baptists dont have sex standing up? somebody may think they are dancing.
By the way, the commandment is against committing murder, not ‘killing’. Killing was excused, justified, condoned, rationalized and commanded all through the old testament. The commandment is against committing murder. And nothing anywhere in the bible gives any indication that god or the men who wrote the bible thought abortion was murder, was killing or was wrong. Causing the loss of a presumably wanted fetus only resulted in paying a fine. That’s not the punishment for causing the death of a person. Whether antichoicers want to face the fact or not, nothing in the bible condemns the practice of abortion even though its been around for thousands of years. Antichoicers only have their interpretations, translations, assumptions and inventions to go on. And of course if one isnt xtian then what the bible has to say on the matter is neither relevant nor material.
Tithe 10% of your gross income? You better not be poor. “I’m sorry kids we can’t eat any more because we have to give our money to the Church.” I know many people who are barely scrapping by and couldn’t afford to give anything away without going hungry.
And some people have to work on Sunday. I mean what if you get into a car wreck Sunday? Should you sit there until Monday because the police, road workers and doctors are Christians?
And it’s a sin to not take care of your body? I wonder how many of those people were obese and out of shape, filling themselves with poisonous fast food among other things.
Bobby 10:14: Did Jesus not speak outside of direct context? He often used direct situations to teach greater lessons, don’t you agree? Now, I obviously can’t say for certain what Jesus exactly meant by his words (as no one can), but I think I am at least somewhat correct.
Christina 10:20: Clearly your 13-month-old is a sinner. *rolls eyes*
Jill 10:21: I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. Do you mean that it is a sin to one of the people because of his sinful intentions? Or do you mean it is because only one person considers it a sin?…Both? Neither?
“I’m sad the percentage of those thinking abortion is wrong is so low. Still, if over half of America agree, does that not constitute a pro-life majority?”
I agree with Texas Red, it’s hard to conclude from the fact that some think abortion is a sin that those same people necessarily want abortion prohibited by the government. Like playing cards, or dancing, maybe it’s “wrong” for some people, but I doubt any of you would advocate a law against it.
http://www.biblegateway.com
Check BibleGateway – see how many translations use the term murder instead of kill in Exodus 20:13
Look at all the rules the orthodox Jews follow – eating pork or shrimp is a sin. Didnt women have to be segregated during their period, and were viewed as ‘unclean’ after they gave birth? Its a sin for a woman to go out if she’s having her period? There are fundamentalist christian sects that insist its a sin for a woman to cut her hair or wear slacks. Then there are the Muslim sins – women can get dragged out of their car and beaten to death for being alone in a car with the wrong person. Sin is an ambiguous term at best.
Jess: I completely get your concerns about tithing. And please, please, please, please believe me: I am NOT trying to push my beliefs onto you. I only want to tell you my experience.
I never tithed in my life until I went to this seminar at my church (Renaissance Unity–I LOVE it!) and part of it was to commit to tithe 10% of my income for the next 30 days. Currently, I don’t have a job (MI economy=the pits–that’s why I’m leaving for NY in a week), but I make a little money here and their watching people’s kids, so that first week I actually tithed 50% of my income. The following week my income was 16 times what I had given to the church.
The idea is that when you give to God, he gives back. It worked for me in a huge way. I imagine that a person’s intentions for tithing have to do with the return as well–tithing out of duty vs. a willingness to give. But whatever.
As for the rest of your post, I completely agree.
Leah, 10:46a, asked: “Do you mean that it is a sin to one of the people because of his sinful intentions? Or do you mean it is because only one person considers it a sin?…Both? Neither?”
Being tempted is not the same as sinning. Jesus was tempted but did not sin. Purposefully playing with fire – allowing yourself to be tempted in an area in which you know you are weak and prone to sin, and which may indeed provoke you to sin – is the wrong.
Gluttony is a sin. Of 2 people eating the same tub of popcorn, 1 may be a glutton and therefore the popcorn eating is a sin, and 1 may not be a glutton and therefore the popcorn eating is not a sin.
So Leah, I give my money to the Church and get it all back and then some?
Aha. Gotcha.
That’s the idea. It worked for me.
PJMama, I was thinking about you yesterday and I wanted to ask you something. You said that you had an abortion and didn’t feel bad about it until several years later- when you were married and having children. How would have having the baby rather than aborting have changed your current life? Didn’t the abortion leave you free to find the man you wanted to marry and have his children? Do you think that if you had had that child so early on in life that you would be as well off and content as you are now?
I think it is important to realize that we all are sinners and we all fall short. It does us no good really to point out which sin is worse. I don’t recall seeing a rating scale of sin in the Bible. A sin is a sin is a sin. So whether you have lied or stolen or committed murder you are still a sinner deserving of death. Let none of us boast on this topic…..as it is only by the saving blood of Jesus that any of us is considered worthy.
If you aren’t religious, Jess, many people find the same success with giving to charities.
Leah,
” Did Jesus not speak outside of direct context? He often used direct situations to teach greater lessons, don’t you agree?”
Oh he certainly did. And I most definitely do not want to have ab “either/or” mentality when it comes to interpreting scripture. Also, we might actually be somewhat on the same page, given your 10:11 post. But I think we disagree as to whether or not getting drunk for the sake of getting drunk or getting high for the sake of getting high is wrong IN AND OF ITSELF (the capps don;t mean I’m yelling, just for emphasis)
So I’ll grant you that indeed, perhaps Jesus did have a larger context in mind in Mark 7:15. Now in order to discern if he did or not, we should see if that is compatible with moral theology. I argue that it is not because (as I mentioned in my very first post)being drunk darkens the intellect and weakens the will. You begin to take away your capacity for rational decision. We all know that people do stupid things when they are drunk or high, and it is precisely because of the mind altering nature of the substance. So being drunk or high is an easy gateway into engaging in other sins. Hence being drunk or high is the sin of FAILING to avoid the ‘near occasion of sin.’ It is not even a passive failure, yet an active failure because one has to partake of the substance. Furthermore, our intellect is a gift that was given to only human beings when we were created in the image and likeness of God. To engage in an activity the purposefully and willfully take that gift of God away, even if temporary, is an affront to the creator.
So even while opening ourselves up to the possibility that Jesus had in mind what you described above, I think we see that other biblical and moral principles are violated if we understand Jesus’ words in that way. God love you.
Jess, 10:44a, said: “Tithe 10% of your gross income? You better not be poor. ‘I’m sorry kids we can’t eat any more because we have to give our money to the Church.’ I know many people who are barely scrapping by and couldn’t afford to give anything away without going hungry.”
Agree with Leah, 10:55a.
Want to add, if we start with the premise that everything we have comes from God, giving back 10% shouldn’t be a psychological problem.
Giving is the only area where God says to TEST Him:
Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. “But you ask, “How do we rob you?’ In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse-the whole nation of you-because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. ~ Malachi 3:8-10 NIV
We don’t give to see what He’ll give us back. We give because we want to. But He fulfills His promise. I’ve lived it, as has Leah, as have countless other Christians.
Leah,
“MI economy=the pits”
I’m from MI! Are you revealing what parts you’re from? I’m from Grand Rapids.
By the way, on the subject of drinking…How was everyone’s St. Patrick’s Day??
I understand Jess’s reaction. That’s what I thought and that’s how I felt before I started tithing. But again, Jess, I’m just telling you what happened with me. Not trying to be self-righteous or anything, I promise.
Bobby: !!!!!!! YOU’RE from MI??? I should have known! All the cool people come from Michigan. I’m in Royal Oak–suburb of Detroit in case you haven’t heard of it. YES!!!!
I’m so happy I share a state with you–or at least a state of origin. That is so cool!
By the way, on the subject of drinking…How was everyone’s St. Patrick’s Day??
Haha. I celebrated St Patrick’s Day by making myself look less Irish (straightened out my curly hair… though my friend said I looked like Andrea Corr, so whatev), and dressing like a REAL Irish person (ie: not decked in green from head to toe). In a mixture of being very Irish and very non-Irish, I listened to the Corrs, but prepared a very un-Irish meal of rabbit (lapin au vin, I call it), and did not consume a drip of alcohol all day, save the wine I was using for the rabbit that I licked off my fingers.
To put the icing on the cake, I reminisced about last year’s St Paddy’s Day and emailed my honey to tell him I was thinking of him (it was last St Paddy’s that we started “dating” for lack of a better term). He said he was thinking about me all day. Awwwwwww….
Oh I know Royal Oak, Leah! I miss MI so much. Once I’m done with school, my wife and I are going to try and move back there. But then you’ll be gone!
Hey, you should hurry before the economy gets better, Bobby–you can get real estate for cheap now! My step mom is still trying to sell her old house and she and my dad got married in October.
In any case, I’ll visit MI every now and then. I’ll think of you!
Leah, you must be on facebook, ehh?
Jill,
Thanks for the reply..
>>I have not heard the 23.3% theory, but I think you and I could agree the Old Testament Biblical standard of giving is a minimum of 10%.
I can agree that the old testament *unit of measure* is 10%, but I suspect that the *standard of giving* was much higher due to the other tithes. Of course I could be wrong…
But the question is, are Christians required to give exactly 10% as a minimum?? One has to consider Acts 2:44-47 and Acts 5-4 as well – maybe 10% is too low.. On the other hand, in the first century of Christianity, 10% as a minimum wasn’t a hard an fast rule either.
And is this 10% to go just to the parish, or some to feed the hungry and clothe the naked as well? It’s common to see a suggestion of giving 5% directly to the parish, and 5% to charity.. Say I give $500 to my parish, and $500 to a local maternity home. Does this satisfy the view that tithing is 10%? This could be argued either way for days upon end…
Ruben
BTW, St. Patrick’s day was on Friday. The church changed it this year because they didn’t want it to fall during Holy Week. Not that I’m trying to spoil anyone’s fun last night. Just kind of a neat bit of trivia. :)
Jill, 560 out of 1000 people thinking abortion is a sin, but not commenting on their beliefs on its legality is not even CLOSE to a “pro-life majority” in America. Don’t you think that was a bit of a stretch on your part?
I think the way a lot of parents let their teenage daughters dress these days is sinful – but that doesn’t mean I think there should be any laws prohibiting a parent’s choice in restricting their kids fashion sense (or lack thereof).
Christina,
“Can someone tell me how spanking your child is a sin? Doesn’t the Bible say “spare the rod, spoil the child”?”
I believe this passage is greatly misinterpreted by spanking advocates. Does a shepard use his rod to beat his sheep or to *gently* guide them in the right direction?
By the way, on the subject of drinking…How was everyone’s St. Patrick’s Day??
Posted by: Erin at March 18, 2008 11:14 AM
************************
Im part Scot / Irish and I cant drink – nothing against it but one beer and I start getting sleepy.
I think the way a lot of parents let their teenage daughters dress these days is sinful – but that doesn’t mean I think there should be any laws prohibiting a parent’s choice in restricting their kids fashion sense (or lack thereof).
Posted by: Amanda at March 18, 2008 11:39 AM
***************************
I have to agree – the closest mall is a hangout for all the local yuppie kids – I consider myself broad minded but was flabberghasted by the thong underwear showing above low cut jeans and skirts and even cleavage showing from the back … I can deal with braless but when you have a cropped top just under the breasts and mini skirts or pants riding inches below the navel Ive got to wonder if the parents even KNOW what the kid is wearing …
Yes I am, Bobby.
TexasRed: Oh my gosh. I completely agree with you. I don’t mind it if people like to express themselves and if they think they’re sexy then that’s wonderful. But frankly, there is a line–and not a fine one, it’s big and bold and OBVIOUS–between sexy and appealing and just plain trashy. I mean, I wear clothes that I think I look good in, but I have class, for heaven’s sake.
But that’s my own personal moral. I can’t really impose it on others, can I?
We should be friends, ehh? Are you friends with Jess? I could find you through her if you would like.
Ruben, because of Jesus, Old Testament laws are now written on our hearts, not on stone. How much more we should endeavor to give back what we know He thinks is a proper amount.
We also teach the first 10% should go to support one’s local church home, church family. Giving to other ministries comes over and above that 10%
I’m not friends with Jess… maybe I should be. Just look me up. Leah Darland.
I trust you all… *glares threateningly*
I’m sad the percentage of those thinking abortion is wrong is so low. Still, if over half of America agree, does that not constitute a pro-life majority?
Believing something is a sin and believing it should be illegal are two different things.
Additionally, the survey’s numbers sound consistently higher than reality to me. With the poll coming from an organization whose self stated mission is “Serving Christian Organizations,” I have to wonder how many athiests and people from non-Christian religions were included.
“Just look me up. Leah Darland.”
Super diaper!
Posted by: Erin at March 18, 2008 11:02 AM
PJMama, I was thinking about you yesterday and I wanted to ask you something. You said that you had an abortion and didn’t feel bad about it until several years later- when you were married and having children. How would have having the baby rather than aborting have changed your current life? Didn’t the abortion leave you free to find the man you wanted to marry and have his children? Do you think that if you had had that child so early on in life that you would be as well off and content as you are now?
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That is a good question and thank you for asking it. Back in Feb ’07 I addressed that very issue in my blog. Now that I know Christ’s love, there’s no doubt in my mind that my life would have worked out somehow and He would have brought me happiness wherever life took me.
I now know that abortion is the ultimate in cynicism and defeatism and is greatest illustration that you can make to God of your lack of faith.
Here is what I wrote on my blog about regretting a past abortion.
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Regret does not mean dwelling on tragedy
Many women AND men may be afraid to admit that they regret a past abortion for fear of implying that they don’t love their present children or their present spouse.
Some spouses may take it this way. It’s easy to see why. Had you not aborted your child, it may be unlikely that you would have met your spouse or had the children that you currently have. It’s important that you gauge your spouse’s personality and determine whether it is wise to express these feelings. If you do decide to go ahead and talk about this issue, it is useful to craft your words to make it perfectly clear that your feelings are not about rejecting your current family; what it IS about is examining one’s life.
Make it clear that, only through the love and wonder that your loved ones have brought to your life have you discovered what a gift you rejected in the past by turning to abortion. You are grateful that God has seen fit to give you a wonderful spouse and children in spite of your past rejection of that gift.
You can regret the past and still embrace the present, if you just trust in God. Regret doesn’t necessarily have to mean dwelling on tragedy…just learning from it is enough.
P.S. Erin; I wouldn’t call my life now “content”. Oh, I love my husband and my children with all of my heart, and view tham as gifts from God that He gave me despite my rejection of His first gift 19 years ago. However, dealing with guilt, depression, and a skewed sense of self on a daily basis is hardly the life that I would wish for anyone. I almost feel as if I sold my soul so I could live some worldly definition of a “perfect life”. Not good.
Snap…I’m SUCH a sinner!
eek…:marches off to church:
I was a dancer for 7 years of my life…that’s a LOT of hail mary’s I’ll have to say to make up for it. My brother is on the Joffrey Ballet…I’ll have to tell him to repent for his sins.
TexasRed: Oh my gosh. I completely agree with you. I don’t mind it if people like to express themselves and if they think they’re sexy then that’s wonderful. But frankly, there is a line–and not a fine one, it’s big and bold and OBVIOUS–between sexy and appealing and just plain trashy. I mean, I wear clothes that I think I look good in, but I have class, for heaven’s sake.
But that’s my own personal moral. I can’t really impose it on others, can I?
Posted by: Leah at March 18, 2008 12:20 PM
**************************************
Im not about to try to tell someone elses kid that they shouldnt dress the way they do. If I had a daughter we’d be going at it hammer and tongs if she wanted to dress that way though. As I said, I cant help but wonder if the parents even KNOW how the kids dress.
As I said, I cant help but wonder if the parents even KNOW how the kids dress.
This is true…they could probably hide stuff in their bag and change or their friends bring them clothes to change into. Not like *I* ever did anything like that.
My mom was pretty good about clothes though..she would never buy me anything unless I was there because if I didn’t like it, she knew I wasn’t wearing it. And I didn’t really like clothes that exposed body parts. I can only hope my daughter doesn’t want to wear clothes like that. :crosses fingers:
I agree with you, TexasRed! I wonder the same thing.
“If you aren’t religious, Jess, many people find the same success with giving to charities.
Posted by: Leah at March 18, 2008 11:03 AM”
I’m not giving away my money. I don’t have enough to be able to just give away 10%. I need to pay car insurance so I can driver to my job to make money to buy myself food and clothes and hopefully save up for a home one day. I will give of my time and energy though. If it would help to say clean a church or help the elderly parishioners with their groceries then sure.
>>We also teach the first 10% should go to support one’s local church home, church family. Giving to other ministries comes over and above that 10%
I’m not saying you are right or wrong, but what do you base this on?
Where was the concept of giving giving exactly/at least 10 percent either *specifically* promoted, done away with, or modified in the New Testament?
The same question can be asked for the other two tithes – where is it in the NT that they are done away with, or continued, or modified?
Why aren’t we *required* to give the additional tithe for the widows and orphans every three years? This is the way it was before – what changed?
The NT makes it clear, especially in Acts of the Apostles, that we are to give, but where in there is the tithe structure and the two/three tithes?
Now don’t get me wrong, we are to give, but I’m actually getting to another point here…
Jess,
I’m with you on that one. I don’t have any money that I could possibly give at this point, but I’m always willing to take time and energy to help others. That’s better to me anyway. Anybody can write a check (if they have the money) but not everybody is willing to take time to actually do the heavy lifting.
Darn, I sin too, as I ALSO bellydance (high-five Leah! I really ought to take a picture of my hip scarf I use for bellydancing, it’s so pretty!).
I also swear. A lot.
Snap.
I swear. I’ve gotta watch myself.
I hardly swear. I will occasionally say, “F*** me up the a**” if I’m really peeved but I usually don’t swear.
Rae,
You can dance all you want in the Catholic Church…except at Mass on Sunday. No dancing IN church…but everywhere else…heck, have you ever been to an Irish Catholic Wedding?
As for gambling, my mother is the one that taught my kids how to gamble (playing cards).
When we were in Ireland over Holy week 10 years ago, my father was just getting bad…we were in Galway walking to Holy Thursday Mass…a VERY solemn occasion.
My mother was carrying her “coffee can” filled with American pennies. She made my father and I wait in the rain while she stopped at every shop to see if they would exchange the american pennies for Irish ones. She wanted to have plenty of change to play poker with the “boys” after mass.
She even made us stop at a Casino for 20 minutes. Again, my poor father, MP who was 2 at the time, waited out in the rain, while mom and the grandkids (all 17 and older) went into the casino for a quick one before Mass.
@MK: I don’t know why we don’t dance at Mass, it would make things so much more joyful and vibrant, as if we really are *celebrating* Christ and all that he has given us. When I used to go to Mass, I always found it very dreary and not very festive, which is a shame. I think the only time it should be “dearie” is Good Friday, otherwise, why not get up and dance a bit?
^_^
And I’ve never been to an Irish Catholic wedding, I’ve only been to a Baptist wedding, and it was the most *boring* thing I’ve ever been to besides calculus class last spring.
I’ve made the executive decision that I am going to get married barefoot, at midnight. Outside. In the summer. And instead of the traditional Canon G with strings and what not I’m gonna have this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKMiXOgGsRI
Oh wow, just noticed I butchered spelling “dreary” at one point.
Good grief, work sucks…it fries my brain.
My wedding is going to be CuteOverLoad style. So cute. Bridesmaids holding little pocket pets instead of flowers. If I ever get married.
This is what the bridesmaids and groomsmen will wear with a nice skirt or slacks:
http://www.glarkware.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=18
Hey folks,
since the concepts of giving and sharing had radically shifted in the NT, some folks asked St. Jerome about it. His answer: Justice is when you give from the excess you need to survive; CHARITY STARTS when you give from what you need to survive.
under such circumstances, tithing seems robotic somehow!
I once attended a Church where the priest requested ideas for the 50% of the collection. From a list of about five suggestions, the congregation would vote and the winner of the election was the recipient of half the Sunday collection for that Mass. This same process was done at every Sunday Mass. Contributions to the collection doubled within 2 wks … ie. the Church did not become any poorer … but the community sense of trust in each other increased dramatically!
John
OH YEAH, SoMG IS UNWILLING TO ADMIT THAT HE IS WRONG ONCE PRESENTED WITH EVIDENCE SHOWING HE IS WRONG! SEE FOR YOURSELF HERE.
https://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/03/breaking_news_t.html
That survey shows that it generally true that CATHOLIC = PAGAN
Zeke, do us all a favor and go die in a fire. Thanks.
Well zeke we better not catch you celebrating Easter…
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0401/egging.html
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0404/easterkids.html
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0404/easter.html
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/eastermessage2004.html
Yeah Landover Baptist just updated for Easter! You should have seen what they had for St. Patrick’s Day.
Oh and when and where is the orgy going to be held? And what’s the dress? Toga’s or casual? I’m not making a toga just to get grass stains on it…
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0406/easterbunnystew.html
DO NOT WANT!!!!
Come on Rae! Are you telling me that I am the only one who gets the impression that Catholics are basicly pagans after years of living in and around Catholics?
Maybe I should clarify what I mean a bit more, so I will here.
Judie Brown wrote a book called Saving Those Damned Catholics. Do you condemn her also because she recognizes that many Catholics (who think abortion isn’t a sin and think its not a sin to get drunk) need to be saved because they are basicly lost pagans?
There’s much more that could be said to solidify the position that many Catholics are pagans. Things like use of and veneration of blessed trinkets that they believe protect them while wearing them (scapulars, medals).
Perhaps do your own survey Rae and see how many Catholics are really just superstitious pagans. My experience has shown that its quite a good number of them.
Zeke, do us all a favor and go die in a fire. Thanks.
Posted by: Rae at March 18, 2008 9:45 PM
Rae you haven’t been the same since Laura left. Do you miss her too? So do I : (
Yes zeke and Protestants are just rowdy Catholics.
On second thought I have to admit that its an insult to pagans to refer to them in any way as Catholic.
Because think about it. Even most pagans would admit that getting drunk is a sin, right?
In this survey only 28% of Catholics said getting drunk was a sin and only 45% of Catholics said having gay sex was a sin.
I’d bet that a higher percentage of non-religious, non-Christian people (pagans) who consider themselves “spiritual” would admit that getting drunk and gay sex acts are sins then Catholics do.
@Zeke: If Catholics are Pagans, Protestants are also Pagans. Protestantism was derived from Catholicism, which was the beginning of Christianity, and the early Christians (and therefore the early Catholics) borrowed some Pagan traditions to make Christianity more appealing for conversion.
But I suppose you wouldn’t know that…and will probably call this nothing more than “evil, secularist lies.”
It must be really hard being so bigoted and hateful all the time. I almost pity you. Almost.
Now please, do us a favor and seriously go jump off a bridge or something. You really do make Pro-Lifers look…bad, which is a shame because I feel Pro-Lifers have a lot to offer and ought to be taken seriously.
@Jess: I don’t really miss her, no. I thought she was overly rude to many people, and I disliked how she insulted single mothers.
@Rae
I wish Laura would come back here and hold a conversation with zeke. That would be very amusing to many of us.
My faith has NOTHING to do with anything that is inherently Catholic.
And Catholics do often seem like practicing pagans with their medals and scapulars and devotion to a Queen of Heaven, etc., etc.
At least to me here in my area and in heavily Catholic areas.
FYI – God is ashamed of any alleged “pro-lifer” who claims that God wants to spare the life of a convicted murderer or that letting murderers live is somehow “pro-life”. Read the quote Jill posted in the sidebar in the upper right from Dennis Ehrenberg’s letter to the editor. Good stuff!
@Jess: Nah, I think Yllas would be more amusing. Yllas is anti-Protestant and a loony, Zeke is anti-Catholic and a loony.
It would be like “Celebrity Deathmatch” only replace the “celebrities” with two nutbars that hate each other’s religion.
Oh yeah, I gotta say that this survey of 1,000 people probably isn’t very reliable as far as groups go.
ITS JUST 1,000 PEOPLE!! BIG DEAL!!
“or that letting murderers live is somehow “pro-life”. ”
No actually I think letting people live is very pro-life.
“At least to me here in my area and in heavily Catholic areas.”
That’s a shame. I bet the blacks and Asians in your area aren’t very nice either : /
“It would be like “Celebrity Deathmatch” only replace the “celebrities” with two nutbars that hate each other’s religion.”
YOMANK
Do I feel a new Fox series brewing?
@Zeke: You can keep telling yourself that, but Christianity has Pagan roots.
Did you know that the exchange of rings at a wedding was originally a Pagan tradition that was sanctified by the Catholic Church? And gee golly wouldn’t you know…my hyper-Baptist cousin exchanged those PAGAN rings with his wife at his wedding.
GO FIGURE.
Hey guys, I’ve run across a LOT of Catholics who are lost and cannot even tell you waht the gospel message is if you ask them.
If someone can’t tell you what the gospel message is that they believed in order to be saved then they are lost. Its that simple. What Paul describes as occuring in Eph 1:13-14, the saving action of the Holy Spirit, cannot happen unless they have “heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation”.
Its not complicated at all. If you don’t know the gospel message then you are lost and need to be saved.
By the way, I have been at a number of Catholic events where I had Catholics fill out an answer to the question “What is the gospel message?” and if they misunderstood and wrote “Matthew, Mark, Luke & John” as an answer I was there to explain exactly what the question meant so they could give a good response.
@Jess: You betcha. I’d seriously pay money to see that.
@Zeke: If you knew anything about statistics, you’d know that a 1000 people can be considered representative as long as it’s within a certain margin of error and is a random sample.
jess said:
“That’s a shame. I bet the blacks and Asians in your area aren’t very nice either”
No, the blacks and Asians in my area are actually very nice and a number of them are strong Christians.
You mean the one’s who aren’t pagans?
Rae claimed:
“If you knew anything about statistics, you’d know that a 1000 people can be considered representative as long as it’s within a certain margin of error and is a random sample.”
I do know something about statistics and I know a fair amount about epidemiological studies which I greatly favor rather than a small survey of 1,000 people.
Do you think the bogus Rassmussen polls are any good? Really did a good job of predicting the New Hampshire primaries, right?
:p
Think about it for a minute, use your brain a little.
Let’s say that survey was done with 500 Catholics and 500 Protestans. OK.
There are 50 states in the USA. If you got 10 from each state that would get you 500 for each group.
Now, would you tell me that the survey responses of 10 Catholics in California and 10 in Missouri and 10 in Massachusetts, etc. would really give you any kind of useful results that would tell you what MILLIONS of Catholics around the nation think?
Come on! There is no way I would put an ounce of value in such a limited survey!
So, all my comments about Catholics and pagans and the like based on that survey aren’t really valid since the survey is probably not at all representative of the beliefs of MILLIONS of protestancs and catholics around the nation.
@Zeke: My job has totally ruined my brain. All the acrylate fumes and what not.
But see? Just now you were rational in your thinking, and were even willing to concede, that no, this poll may not be entirely accurate and no, Catholics may not be Pagans after all (good for you!).
Why couldn’t you be this rational and almost-nice all the time instead of a horses patootie like you are 99% of the time?
And *gasp*…you didn’t call me names nor were you terribly condescending.
I would like to say THANK YOU Zeke, for being almost nice to me. I appreciate it.
By the by…you say you prefer epidemiological studies…are you by any chance in the epidemiology field or am I misinterpreting what you meant by that term?
Frak, the one above was me, Rae. Sorry…using a different web browser because Firefox decided it didn’t like me this evening.
Rae, are you and Ari-chan the same person?
Oh man, who left Zeke alone with the computer again?!!!
Zeke, you know you aren’t supposed to have contact with the outside world while being in the insane asylum. I’m gonna tell the nurses what you’re up to.
@Jess:…
*shiftyeyes*
Perhaps… :)
Lol Elizabeth.
Zeke is sitting there right now thinking, “how did all this skin get on my arm!?”
WHY RAE WHY!?
@Jess: Why what?
Lol Jess.
Zeke has multiple personalities…one of them actually believes he is God.
Why are you Ari?
@Jess: I was hiding for a little while. :)
I found you!
@Jess: I knowz! :D You finded me!
awwwww, did I miss the nut formaly known as Zeke??
Tori 11:21,
The discipline verse in Proverbs isn’t mean to endorse the beating of a child. Spanking is not meant to hurt the child, but to teach the child. Are there other methods? Yes, but for a young child they don’t work as well. A “gentle guiding” can be a spanking, not administered to cause a lot of pain, but just enough for the child to get a sense that he or she did something wrong and there is a consequence. A spanking should always be followed by a loving embrace and there should always be an explanation as to why the child was spanked.
I do know people who use spanking the wrong way. They either over spank their child or spank for the wrong reasons.I know a mom that spanked her son because he refused to say “bye”, that is extreme IMO. Spanking should only be done by a parent and should be done in love and not in anger.
Then again, some parents may never need to spank their child and that is ok. I think the point of the verse was more discipline than anything else.
It would be like “Celebrity Deathmatch” only replace the “celebrities” with two nutbars that hate each other’s religion.
I was thinking maybe “Blood Cage Sport Extreme Match Extra Super, Jill versus Laura – This time, it’s PERSONAL”
Bobby Bambino to officiate.
HEY Midnite, where ya been? Glad to see you here.
Okay, so it’s better to have an abortion than not to return the extra buck the cashier gave you. Puts things in perspective.
And… “Swearing”? Good grief…
If a group of people, as here, are really going to be offended by something, then I can see holding off of doing it, as with “blasphemy” here. It’s Jill’s site, and I have no problem with the rule about it.
But for somebody to step out of their house and say, “damn, it’s cold,” now is that a sin?
Jess: I was hiding for a little while. :)
Rae, you sly fox! And MK and somebody else either knew or figured it out….
You’re right about Tarja.
Should I take it that Elizabeth is an anti-intellectual based upon her completely content-free name calling towards me? I do, I was curious if anyone else thinks the same. You probably think she’s great just because she’s a girl or someretarded reason like that, but if someone just calls me names without using decent reasoning in attacking an argument I put out there you would think that that would mean they are anti-intellectual or have nothing intelligent to respond with.
Hey, maybe some of these people helping with the blog should delete posts that contain nothing but insults.
By the way, when someone just throws an insult at me I take that as their asserting that I am correct and since they have nothing of substance to respond with that is why they are just insulting me.
How in the hell can anyone argue with my experience anyways??
Does anyone have anything intelligent to come back with in response to what I said about Catholics not knowing the gospel message and the necessity of knowing it in order to be saved as Paul wrote in Eph 1:13-14?
“It would be like “Celebrity Deathmatch” only replace the “celebrities” with two nutbars that hate each other’s religion.
I was thinking maybe “Blood Cage Sport Extreme Match Extra Super, Jill versus Laura – This time, it’s PERSONAL”
Bobby Bambino to officiate.”
Oh yeah, Doug! I’ve reffed plenty of matches, so I do think I am qualified for such a task.
“My faith has NOTHING to do with anything that is inherently Catholic.”
Zeke, I’m so confused by you. The first time I saw you, you quoted “Evangelium Vitae” by JPII. You also talked about how Justice Alito was excommunicated for supporting abortion. You also told me that you listen to Catholic Answerers and are a part of their forums. There are other things too, I think. But you aren’t Catholic in any respect? Do you basically consider yourself a student of Bob Enyart? I’m just confused about where you’re coming from. Thanks, God love you.
You probably think she’s great just because she’s a girl or some retarded reason like that
Zeke, you are a piece of work.
I’ve reffed plenty of matches, so I do think I am qualified for such a task.
Bobby, you take a guy who’s getting his PhD in Matematics, and who not only watches wrasslin’ but also replays of matches – as I believe you indicated with respect to a certainl Wrestlmania, and anything is possible…..
Oh yes Doug. In fact, I used to be a professional wrestler. Just google the name “Bobby Bambino.”
@Bobby: Are you serious!?
If so…that is SO FRIGGIN’ AWESOME! :D
HOLY FRITZ!
YOU ARE SERIOUS!
Bobby, you are seriously one of my favorite people ever. Tied with MK, Bethany, Lyssie, PiP, and Midnite. :D
THAT IS MOST RIGHTEOUSLY EXCELLENT!
Oh yes, Rae…
My brother is still doing it and he is actually one of the biggest independent wrestlers in the US.
“Bobby, you are seriously one of my favorite people ever. Tied with MK, Bethany, Lyssie, PiP, and Midnite. :D”
I’m flattered.
Really?
What made you get into wrestling and why did you stop?
I had always wanted to be a pro wrestler ever since I was a little kid. I began training at age 17, and I wrestled for about 8 years. It’s been about a year since I’ve last wrestled, and I still would love to again. It’s just that with a wife and baby, I have actual responsibilities. Can’t be driving off to some bingo hall 4 hours away every Friday and Saturday night to fake fight in my underwear with grown men :)
When I did wrestle, I wrestled in the midwest. Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Wisconson. Once I wrested in Duluth Minnesota, but I gotta believe that’s the closest I’ve ever been to where you are.
That’s so cool that you did that! And I suppose you’re used to hearing this, but I *never* would have pictured you as a Pro Wrestler. How did you pick the name “Bobby Bambino the Blitzkrieg Kid”?
And as a side note: When you get Confirmed, you have to pick a sponsor correct? Does the sponsor have to go to your Church or do they just have to be a confirmed Catholic?
LOL. I can’t believe I”m going to answer a wrestling and a religion question at the same time!
I originally wanted to be called just “Blitzkrieg” because it means lightning war, and I was fast and quick and athletic; like lightning! (cause lightning is athletic) My trainer added the “kid” part because I looked like I was about 7 years old when I was 17. So I was the Blitzkrieg Kid.
Then I went to wrestle (a year and a half later) for a promotion in Milwaukee, and they wanted to bill me as the younger brother of this wrestler they had named Dino Bambino. So I became Bobby Bambino. The sometimes people would combine the names. In my last couple years, I wrestled as “The Evil Dr. Numbers.” I was an evil mathematician.
Your sponsor just has to be a confirmed Catholic, I believe.
BTW, I’m excited to hear about Sunday. I don’t have much more time to talk tonight, but hopefully real soon.
wow, thats neat Bobby!
Bobby:8:28,
That’s a classic. An “evil mathematician/ theologian”. What a combo!
zeke said:
And Catholics do often seem like practicing pagans with their medals and scapulars and devotion to a Queen of Heaven, etc., etc.
*********
Zeke, tread carefully, that is the Mother of Jesus Christ you are belittling. And Jesus Christ is God.
Zeke, if you make it to heaven what are you gonna say when you get there and all the holy angels are adoring her?
zeke said:
FYI – God is ashamed of any alleged “pro-lifer” who claims that God wants to spare the life of a convicted murderer or that letting murderers live is somehow “pro-life”.
*********
zeke,
You quote Eph 1:13 but you don’t seem to understand that the Gospel we are speaking of is the Gospel of Jesus Chris. Do you not understand that Jesus suffered, died, and rose from the grave to bring salvation to sinners?
Granted, I would not stand idle while a person was abused in my presence. And that is exactly why I don’t stand idly by and watch somebody like you say abusive things to post-abortive mother’s who have repented.
above post obcviously should have read Jesus Christ, not Jesus Chris
Oh yes Doug. In fact, I used to be a professional wrestler. Just google the name “Bobby Bambino.”
Oh, I knew it, because almost everybody getting their doctorate in Mathematics used to be a professional wrestler.
Actually, I never would have thought that in a crillion years. Amazing! Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water…..
Who could have predicted?
zeke,
Do you suggest that Jesus did not honor Mary?
It sounds like blasphemy to imply Jesus would not honor his mother. And if she was good enough for Jesus then she is good enough for me.
To dishonor her would be to dishonor her son. Now you don’t want to do that do you?
zeke,
The spirits of all the greatest men and women are alive today. Our’s is the God of the living, not of the dead. Prayer is a spiritual experience and we can join Mary and the apostles, John the Baptist and St Stephen and the martyrs. Jesus looks with favor on prayerful communion and amongst his followers.
all that and brains too … my my my
I wonder how many comments this post has?