Weekend question
Barack Obama talks much of hope.
What is the real meaning of hope?
First correct answer gets one of my dvds.
Mar.01, 2008 5:36 am |
Weekend question |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“Hope is the theological virtue by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ’s promises and relying not on our own strength, but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit. “Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.” “The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.”
The virtue of hope responds to the aspiration to happiness which God has placed in the heart of every man; it takes up the hopes that inspire men’s activities and purifies them so as to order them to the Kingdom of heaven; it keeps man from discouragement; it sustains him during times of abandonment; it opens up his heart in expectation of eternal beatitude. Buoyed up by hope, he is preserved from selfishness and led to the happiness that flows from charity.
Christian hope takes up and fulfills the hope of the chosen people which has its origin and model in the hope of Abraham, who was blessed abundantly by the promises of God fulfilled in Isaac, and who was purified by the test of the sacrifice. “Hoping against hope, he believed, and thus became the father of many nations.”
Christian hope unfolds from the beginning of Jesus’ preaching in the proclamation of the beatitudes. The beatitudes raise our hope toward heaven as the new Promised Land; they trace the path that leads through the trials that await the disciples of Jesus. But through the merits of Jesus Christ and of his Passion, God keeps us in the “hope that does not disappoint.” Hope is the “sure and steadfast anchor of the soul . . . that enters . . . where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf.” Hope is also a weapon that protects us in the struggle of salvation: “Let us . . . put on the breastplate of faith and charity, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.” It affords us joy even under trial: “Rejoice in your hope, be patient in tribulation.” Hope is expressed and nourished in prayer, especially in the Our Father, the summary of everything that hope leads us to desire.
We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. In hope, the Church prays for “all men to be saved.” She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:
Hope, O my soul, hope. You know neither the day nor the hour. Watch carefully, for everything passes quickly, even though your impatience makes doubtful what is certain, and turns a very short time into a long one. Dream that the more you struggle, the more you prove the love that you bear your God, and the more you will rejoice one day with your Beloved, in a happiness and rapture that can never end.”
-CCC, 1817 – 1821
The real meaning of hope is found in God. No politician can offer you hope – no politician can rescue you from carrying your crosses, heal you, or guarantee your salvation in the future. Only Christ can provide us with hope in this world. Obama is a destroyer of hope, a destroyer of life, an advocate and a major player in the culture of death.
“I’m on Aslan’s side even if there isn’t any Aslan to lead it. I’m going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn’t any Narnia.”
–The Silver Chair
‘Yes,’ said Queen Lucy. ‘In our world too, a Stable once had something inside it that was bigger than our whole world.'”
–The Last Battle
When a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor’s stead, the table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards.'”
–The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
“In the struggle for existence, it is only on those who hang on for ten minutes after all is hopeless, that hope begins to dawn.” – The Speaker 2-2-01
GKChesterton
And when it rains on your parade, look up rather than down. Without the rain, there would be no rainbow.
Gilbert K. Chesterton
Youth is the period in which a man can be hopeless. The end of every episode is the end of the world. But the power of hoping through everything, the knowledge that the soul survives its adventures, that great inspiration comes to the middle-aged.
Gilbert K. Chesterton
The real meaning oh hope is Obama losing;]
*of*…as I type, there is a “Vote for Obama” commercial on the TV in the living room.
While there’s life, there’s hope.
Cicero (106 BC – 43 BC), Ad Atticum
“‘Abba, Father,’ he said, ‘everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will” (Mark 14:36).
“I thirst”
John 19:28
salvation
FYI, I’m out-of-pocket all day – speaking at a TX Students for Life conference. So I’ll look over answers tonight and announce the winning later.
HOPE…Hillary, Obama, Pathetic, End..HOPE.
Oh man John Lewandowski, you beat me to it! I had paragraph 1817 all ready to go…
hope is a spirit of love … an Easter, Spring morning … it’s companions ‘trust’ and ‘courage’
John
to be blessed in hope is nectar for living
mk,
I just wanted to let you know that I completed the responses to you for last weekend’s question last night.
And I still have my fingers!!!!
Hope is going forth in the pro-life movement despite all odds.
Hope only leads to vast disappointment.
“First correct answer gets one of my dvds.”
Correct answer according to whom? You? Everyone’s definition of hope may be different. No answer is necessarily wrong in my opinion.
JLM,
I have responded to the “weekend” post from last weekend…
Ari,
Hope only leads to vast disappointment.
No,no,no…
Hope is what is left in the face of vast disappointment. That which brought you to this vast disappoint was wishful thinking…it’s when you keep going after and in spite of vast disappointment that we call “HOPE”.
I vote for mk’s post at 7:20 am. Spot on.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
Why thank you Patricia!
Hope Obama only leads to vast disappointment.
I see the “strike” HTML doesn’t work. Oh bother. Just imagine “Hope” with a line through it in that last post.
Hope is what is left in the face of vast disappointment. That which brought you to this vast disappoint was wishful thinking…it’s when you keep going after and in spite of vast disappointment that we call “HOPE”.
Posted by: mk at March 1, 2008 10:00 AM
This one gets my vote, although Brian’s link to Pope Benedict’s encyclical is a close second. (Pope Benedict says “FAITH is HOPE”).
Related in a roundabout way is a saying that has always stuck with me – “FAITH is courage that has said its prayers”.
I think hope is an optimistic look to the future.
Many people say “because there is no hope without God, Obama is the antichrist.”
I say, what political leader would run on a platform of “no hope”? Would you vote for that politician?
Furthermore, wouldn’t the idea that the future is optimistic, things will get better, we have always pulled through before and we can do it again…be a good thing for a politician to promote?
I swear it’s like you guys are inventing some of these reasons to hate him.
Here’s Bill Clinton’s take on hope:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/bill-clinton-en.html
How many dictators have offered their populace hope? How many times have these despots leveled their citizenry in blood baths? Take Cuba
The “hope” Obama speaks of is: blind optimism.
Hope is the one sustaining grace of humankind; when all else has deserted you, hope alone will remain.
It is a wish, a promise of that which springs eternal; a poignant memory of days gone by that yet may be again.
“I say, what political leader would run on a platform of “no hope”?”
That is exactly the point. Obama and his supporters seem to be implying that the other candidates are somehow anti-hope. Let’s take some other positive concept which Obama never mentions. Obama doesn’t mention, say, friendship very often, if ever. Does that mean Obama is anti-friendship? I don’t want to vote for a candidate running on a platform of no friendship.
Do you see how absurd that is?
In spite of his rhetoric, Obama is not more pro-hope than any other candidate, and if you disagree with his far-left policies, you likely see him as being against positive change for the future.
Hope Obama only leads to vast disappointment.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 1, 2008 10:53 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lewandowski, I work with a vast mob of Republicans ALL OF WHOM are disappointed by their party’s actions over the last 7 years.
You?
Jasper (QoTD),
There are many parallels to the White Rose movement and the Pro-Life movement, I think it would be worthwhile to discuss it further. The story is amazing, I definitely want to rent the movie.
Here’s Bill Clinton’s take on hope:
There is hope, there is “false” hope, and then there is lies. God offers hope, Obama offers false hope and guess which one Clinton offers. I swear if he said the sky was blue, I’d call Tom Skilling for verification…
Hope is the one sustaining grace of humankind; when all else has deserted you, hope alone will remain.
It is a wish, a promise of that which springs eternal; a poignant memory of days gone by that yet may be again.
Ahhhh my little sparrow. That was beautiful.
Janet,
When we were at the holocaust museum they had a exhibit on the White Rose movement…and also many books in the bookstore.
Needless to say, when I read/saw it, I cried.
Gee, it might intrest you to know that the Army of God has their own “White Rose” banquet:
http://www.armyofgod.com/wrbmikebray.html
The Holocaust Museum is tragic.
Thanks for pulling up The Army of God. I always take a look through those pictures of beheaded babies to remind myself why I hate abortion so much.
I used to be pro choice. Pictures of these aborted “feti” are what made me cross over.
The Holocaust is tragic, the museum is a reminder in the hope it does not happen again.
“How many dictators have offered their populace hope?”
How many good presidents offered their populace hope?
“Obama and his supporters seem to be implying that the other candidates are somehow anti-hope.”
The point was you guys are so up in arms about him being about hope. It’s true, you guys are accusing him of being everything from a dictator to the antichrist because he offers hope. That is what I’m addressing. That makes me think that you want a politician to be “anti-hope.” I never said anything about the other candidates, I was addressing the people here.
PIP,
Obama offers America hope in his sophomoric addresses. However, one thing is certain by his own record. That hope gives no future to unborn babies. Obama
“Obama offers no hope for the decrease of AIDS/HIV when his record shows him enthusiastically supporting recreational homosexual sex. How many practicing homosexuals wish they had not practiced their urges, though Obama votes for them to have full license to sodomize.”
LOL are you serious?
” That hope gives no future to unborn babies. ”
I disagree heavily about that, but I believe that he won’t (or can’t) do much related to the abortion issue, any more than Bush did. I’ve been to 2 rallies and he did not even mention abortion there.
“full license to sodomize.”
where do I apply for such a license?
I want a license too. Do I have to take a test?
Interesting link on Obama. HMMMMM. I wonder if he’s ever met anyone who had full blown AIDS.
“where do I apply for such a license?”
*gigglefit*
The oral exam is a killer
Hey, can anyone tell me if there are any decent candidates left to choose from? PIP? JLM? MK? I’d especially like to hear what you all think. I need to vote!! AAAHH!
“The oral exam is a killer”
*gigglefit again*
BAD HAL! :-p
Hal, I already know that you want OSPAMA. That’s why I didn’t ask.
@heather: There really aren’t any good candidates. I’m leaning towards writing in “Chuck Norris'” beard or “Jack Bauer” instead.
Or Stephen Colbert. Actually, I’m leaning towards Stephen Colbert right now…
Ari, what do you think about McCain?
@heather: He’s too much of a war-hawk for my tastes.
He doesnt seem like he’d make a great leader. Anyone else?
LOL Hal
Heather,
Stephen Colbert. He both sexy and smart. How better could it get?
PIP,
Of course he won’t talk about abortion at his rallies. Have you not read ANYTHING that Jill has put on this blog regarding his stance on abortion and human rights?
Please.
That man could give a speech on how to make the earth greener – by spraypainting it – and the crowd would cheer and go nuts.
PIP, this is for you……
AAAWWWW, my link didn’t post! It was Colbert and O’Reiley!
JLM, LOL! [spraypainting]
Gee, it might intrest you to know that the Army of God has their own “White Rose” banquet:
http://www.armyofgod.com/wrbmikebray.html
Yeah well even bad people get it right sometimes. You can’t be wrong about everything.
Just like good people can get it wrong sometimes…
You know, like Hal and Laura and Doug…good people, they’ve just got this one TEENY TINY thing wrong…
Army of God inadvertently got something right…go firgure.
Wow, lots of Obama haters. No surprise, I think he may just be the liberal version of Reagan :-p
He has been very specific (espescially given criticism coming from all sides) that his speeches lacked “substance”. So much for that now, now they are packed full of the plans that have always been available should anyone had felt the need to do research. Every criticism that goes Obama’s way he uses to better his campaign. That shows quite the ability to readjust and better his plans. Seems like something we need in a president to me. Not to mention the organization so prevalent in his campaign that it runs so smoothly, something else this nation needs in a president. Not to mention he’s inspired and motivated a previously dormant voting bloc into action, something no program has thus far been able to do. He’s only a candidate, and already he’s begun changing America for the better.
@MK: I *really* wouldn’t put any praise on Army of God. They’re nothing more than “Christian” terrorists, in my opinion.
Hey Dan,
Where have you been?
Ari-chan,
That wasn’t praise! Read it again. I said that even BAD people occasionally, accidentally, get things right…odds are in their favor.
@MK: Oops! Sorry! *blush*
My baaaaaad… :-}
hey MK!
I’ve been busy lately. College aid figures are starting to come in, school has been an annoyance, and I’ve been helping my mom pack and move. Im still sore from all the lifting and I’m convinced something in the dust got me sick. My eyes wont stop watering and I keep having sneeze attacks that go about ten at a time.
And of course donating to Obama and becoming one of the million :-p
My sweatshirt should come in a few weeks, wooo. Lol.
Perhaps the Army of God inadvertently happened to get one thing wrong, and everyone focuses on it instead of the things they have right.
Anon,
Well, now that’s definitely another way of looking at it. What have they gotten right in your opinion? I’m not being sarcastic, I don’t honestly know that much about them other than that they are extreme to the extreme.
I swear it’s like you guys are inventing some of these reasons to hate him.
Posted by: prettyinpink at March 1, 2008 11:33 AM
I don’t think most who are adamantly against Obama hate him per se. I think they hate what they feel he stands for. He is kind of like the rock stars who are promoted by big record labels. They sing all these lyrics people want to hear and the record companies make a huge return on their investment. When you see the mega Wall Street money behind Obama, who was relatively unknown even in his home state before he became a US senator, you can’t help but see him as a product sold to us by big money interests. His message is as old as the Romans’ bread and circus. We all want something for nothing but it is an illusion.
I don’t hate Obama or Britney Spears. I just don’t think either should be president. They just aren’t qualified and neither has experience being in charge. Their job is to be the front man.
Anon-
he wasnt even the senate yet when he rose to the public spotlight, it was the DNC when he spoke that people took notice. He was still campaigning for his own Senate seat. He was still a state legislator at that time if I recall correctly.
And who wants something for nothing? What does that have to do with Obama?
And I must admit, experience != good judgement or the ability to be president. I think that’s been clear should you look through history. Some of the ones who were most experienced are seen today as the worst presidents.
If Obama gets in, this country is doomed.
heather-
people said the same for nearly every presidential candidate known to history.
I’m sure they have. Why Obama, Dan? What do you like about him?
Heather-
I think his plans for this nation are the best way to go. I agree (overall) with his voting record and his judgement thus far, esp in the Middle East. On top of that, he is still farily new to Washington, and is willing to work with both parties, as shown by those who have sponsored/cosponsored his bills, as well as those he has agreed with. He isnt simply a Democrat. Yes, he certainly is liberal, but he isnt partisan, which is very important in these times. We need a president who isnt just going to authorize something just because it is from his/her party or who will reject bills because they come from the other side of the spectrum.
Dan, thank you for explaining.
No problem heather.
Heather, I’m sure I’ve already seen it, no worries ;)
Pip-
you a fan of the movie Dogma? It’s on Starz Cinema now
*thanks Comcast for free sample trial*
To MK: In my opinion, what they have gotten right are the following:
1. that killing unborn babies is murder and abominable in the sight of God, and should not be legal.
2. that the unborn should be defended.
3. that since the unborn are no less human than those born, the punishment for killing innocent people (e.g., those who do not intentionally harm others) in either category should be equal under the law, as should the reward for protecting them, and these views are clear to anyone who has bothered to read their website.
Where I, personally, part company with those of them with whose writings I am familiar are these points:
The use and advocacy of vigilante lethal force, and the view that anyone who objects to the use of lethal force but favors comparatively peaceful activity – sidewalk counseling, picketing, lobbying, etc.- are damned cowards, idiots, etc. I don’t accept that view, nor do I accept the view that all the AOG people are necessarily “crazy” or “extremist” because, in my view and that of many others, they are wrong about some things.
I don’t personally condone the use of lethal force, having chosen pretty early on in my own involvement which path to take; e.g., the peaceful one. But I have difficulty condemning, for instance, the Warsaw ghetto uprising in opposition to the same holocaust just in an earlier phase (see eugenics-watch.com); for that reason I have trouble with those who issue a blanket condemnation of the use of lethal force to defend the victims of the mass murder of the unborn.
What I guess stumps me the most about this is how the “pro-choice” crowd can justify damning the AOG; after all, they are only pro-choice about killing abortionists AFTER they are born, and have proven themselves to be a danger to a weak but vital, judicially innocent segment of society. The professing “pro-choicers” just kill them before. If killing a baby is legitimately a private decision between a woman, her god, and her doctor, why isn’t killing a killer a legitimately private decision between an AOGer, his/her god, and his/her choice of “doctor”?!
I’m not saying the killers are right or wrong here, just because of the legality of their actions; just that if one establishes “choice” for its own sake as the standard, how can one condemn or condone anything and be taken seriously?!
Back to you, MK?!
Dan I practically know it by heart!
Don’t need TV, I gots DVD ;)
Pip-
I’m jealous. I want that DVD badly, lol.
Dude you can probably get it real cheap. I think I got mine for 10 bucks.
Pip-
every time i come across it I can seem to only find the special edition for like 25 dollars.
ahhh that sucks. I got mine used, so a good place to check would be in the used bins.
And who wants something for nothing? What does that have to do with Obama?
Posted by: Dan at March 1, 2008 2:32 PM
Obama wants to dramatically increase spending. Our future unfunded obligations were over $45,000,000,000,000 even before Bush signed the rx drug plan. That is 11 times the annual gross domestic product. Financial advisors are now beginning to explain to people what it will mean when US treasury bonds are downgraded. It is currently unclear how the US can possibly achieve solvency.
I am not sure how you figure Obama is not partisan. He is to the left of every Senator in Washington. I mean that is nowhere near the middle.
United States is technically bankrupt; the present value of all of our future obligations is greater than the present value of the revenue we expect to take in plus our current debt (this is based on projections from OMB, Social Security Administration, and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services). The Federal Reserve addressed the article in a report that we will be able to avoid bankruptcy
Where it comes to Obama, Hillary violated the two most important rules in love, war, and politics:
1.NEVER underestimate your opposition
2.NEVER expect, or predict, a quick and easy victory.
Anon, read his bills, look at who he has worked with. he may be liberal (he is not most liberal, there are more liberal senators out there, though some sources disagree) but he is willing to work from others from the opposite side of the fence. Not to mention, read some of his speeches. After the IU shooting he was promoting the second ammendment rather than gun control as the majority of Dems believe we should pass more of. He has worked with conservatives to pass bills in Congress and during his time as state legislature. Check it out.
As for something out of nothing, he is planning to eliminate various sources of major spending (the Iraq war for one, though I wish hed go after the failed War on Drugs as well, we need a new approach there and its wasting 120 billion a year) and yes, increasing taxes. Compared to other countries we pay so little in taxes its ridiculous. We SHOULD be paying more, and I will GLADLY pay more to better the nation.
Mary-
she even broke the rules according to Clinton’s (Bill’s) rule of politics, which caused her to lose so much support. Ironic.
Laura, most Republicans who are disappointed in the Republican Party are disappointed because of the lack of conservative leadership and policies. They are upset because the Republicans haven’t been conservative enough. So your solution is for them to vote for the #1 liberal in the Senate?
I also fail to see how the most extremist member of the Senate can possibly bring America together. That’s much more likely to happen with a moderate conservative like John McCain. You guys running Obama for president would be like us running Santorum for president.
PIP, we aren’t upset about Obama supposedly being for hope. What we don’t like is Obama using the concept of “hope” arbitrarily prop up his campaign, and his supporters acting like he came up with this great new concept. Obama is preying upon, to be honest, stupid and ignorant people, with his empty, meaningless message. To Obama, “hope” really means “far-left extremism”, but how many of his supporters understand that?
Ooo, the movie Dogma, huh? That’s probably one of the most anti-Catholic movies of all time. It’s not surprising that many on here adore it.
“Compared to other countries we pay so little in taxes its ridiculous. We SHOULD be paying more, and I will GLADLY pay more to better the nation.”
Dan, the IRS accepts checks. Go ahead and write one.
John-
no checking account
as for the anti-Catholicism sentiment:
It’s humor. It isnt supposed to be taken seriously. Heck, even the makers saw that coming and inserted a humorous disclaimer at the beginning of the movie to emphasize that point. Movies are movies, not reality.
I was Catholic when I first saw it and thought it was one of the funniest movies I had ever seen. I’m an Obama supporter, and I thought that skit on SNL that has been all over the news was hilarious. You have to be able to recognize humor.
Dan, they’ll take cash, too.
As for Dogma, yeah, “it’s just humor” is often used to excuse bigotry. Too bad, that didn’t work for Michael Richards. He should have gone on an anti-Catholic tirade instead of that racist one.
It’s also interesting that, at least in my experience, lapsed and former Catholics are the worst anti-Catholic bigots of all, and they love to say “I’m Catholic so it’s OK” or “I used to be Catholic” to justify themselves. It’s a real riot.
John-
I defend catholicism far more than I should under your logic. I should just be cracking jokes at its expense all the time or telling people its fine to insult Catholicism around me and that I could care less.
Dogma isn’t bigotry anymore than any other comedic film. It’s a parody, meaning it has some basis in fact, bigotry does not.
Dogma has some basis in fact? Really? Do tell. Is it the continued misinformation about the concept of “papal infallibility”? Is it the implication that fallen angels, aka demons, are really just poor, misunderstood schmoes who want to get back into Heaven but God won’t let ’em? Is it the claim that Catholics get absolutely nothing out of Mass, and just keep on going because, hey, what the heck else are we gonna do?
It is ironic that the message of this “comedy” boils down to the silly notion that faith is good while religion is bad, and that it doesn’t really matter what you have faith in, as long as you have faith. That’s just like Obama with his vague message of “hope”!
Dan 4:04PM
Please excuse my ignorance but what are Bill’s rules of politics?
I would think one rule is to put a muzzle on one’s spouse. Both Bill and Michelle have stuck their feet in their mouths.
Dan,
Quite honestly, I don’t believe for one minute she is down for the count. Its not over til its over.
Mary, while campaigning for Kerry in ’04 he said:
“If one candidate is trying to scare you, and the other’s trying to get you to think; if one is appealing to your fears, and the other is appealing to your hopes – it seems to me you ought to vote for the person who wants you to think and hope.”
— Bill Clinton 10/26/2004
John-
it comments on the circular logic one can find in Catholic dogma/doctrine, and also can really force people to look at what you believe. In Comparative World Religions we looked at religions from an objective and historical stand point (hard for many in my class) and people began commenting on their own faith about how ridiculous some of it seemed. They didnt move away from their faith, but had a new look and understanding of their faith.
Mary-
you’re right, shes not out yet, but the count is starting. She’s got to get up soon if she wants a shot.
“Ooo, the movie Dogma, huh? That’s probably one of the most anti-Catholic movies of all time. It’s not surprising that many on here adore it.”
Kevin Smith, the person who made it, is a Catholic.
Couldn’t hurt to have a sense of humor, but I hope you saw the movie before slapping that label on it.
“As for Dogma, yeah, “it’s just humor” is often used to excuse bigotry. Too bad, that didn’t work for Michael Richards.”
Like your favorite, Ann Coulter?
LOL You know it will be bad if George Carlin is playing a bishop.
“Are you….pro-choice?”
More religious humor:
Roman Catholicism! Jesus founded only One Church and it wasn’t Unitarian. He took is apostle Simon and made him into a rock and built a church upon him. It’s called “the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church,” or “Church for short.”
Catholics have many advantages over other Christians. One is marble. For the buck I put into the collection plate, I want some production value. That means a church, not some community center that doubles as a basketball court.
…
Some are put off by the labyrinthine structure of Catholic dogma, but many of its rituals are quite beautiful, and not just when edited together as a tense, poetic counterpoint to brutal violence in Mafia films.
But maybe you’re not ready to be a roman Catholic. Well, as the saying goes, “There are many roads to God.” Some are just more twisty than others. So if you want to get a little needless exercise, why don’t you try one of these Goat Paths to Nowhere?
Protestantism. This is a variant form of Christianity, or “heresy.”
Episcopal Church: Why don’t episcopalians just come out and say it: they’re Anglicans. A bunch of Tory Loyalist Brit-o-philes living in our midst, just waiting for the day America lets her guard down so they can slip tea into our coffeemakers, bayonet our bald eagles, and reinstate Henry VIII. Le’ts keep an eye on these people.
Methodism: What, the Church of England wasn’t heretical enough for you?
Baptists: I’m a pious guy, but even I have my limits. I draw the line right around spending 8 hours in church every Sunday. Church should be a solemn 45 minutes to sit quietly and feel guilty, with donuts at the end to make you feel better. I don’t go in for full day of singing and dancing and rejoicing, no matter how nice the hats are. I prefer my Gospel monotonously droned to me from a pulpit, thank you very much.
(I am America and So Can You).
If you want more, I got it!
I think that Micheal Richards really cooked his goose that night. Career suicide.
***or “Church” for short.
Hope is NOT a mother driving her teenage daughter to Planned Parenthood so that somebody like SoMG can kill their baby.
PIP-
HILARIOUS book. Love it. Havent finished it yet though. Stupid school and distracting internet….
truthseeker, great point.
How many of you pro-choicers will stand up and say they would be happy to drive their daughters for an abortion some day? I saw one such mother today and I saw the look on her dejected daughter. It tears my heart out to see it.
truthseeker, that’s sad.
Some will go so far as to say that abortion actually empowers women. Why would so many women cry over an empowering experience?
exactly, heather.
Dan 6:21PM
She and her spouse are like two vampires forever climbing our of their coffins. I’ll believe they’re both gone when I see a strategically placed stake.
PIP said: “Kevin Smith, the person who made it, is a Catholic.”
Of course. Didn’t you see where I mentioned that lapsed and former Catholics delight in bashing the Church, and defend themselves with the excuse that they are/were Catholic?
PIP also said: “Couldn’t hurt to have a sense of humor, but I hope you saw the movie before slapping that label on it.”
Of course I saw it. That’s why I know it inaccurately portrays the concept of papal infallibility, suggests that demons are misunderstood guys, and ultimately preaches its gospel that religion is bad while “faith” is good. An abortion clinic worker saves the universe from an insane papal decree by killing angels? Yep, that’s some funny stuff, there. A million laughs.
PIP went on to say: “Like your favorite, Ann Coulter?”
My favorite political commentator is Laura Ingraham, not Ann Coulter, thank you very much. And Ann Coulter says anti-Catholic stuff sometimes. I don’t like it very much. Fortunately she hasn’t made a career out of Catholic bashing like some people.
As for the Colbert stuff… I don’t like Colbert. But my dislike for him is not really fair. I don’t dislike him as much as I dislike his fans, and then, I only dislike the fans who watch his comedy show as a real source of news. Anyway, that Catholicism stuff he wrote is actually pretty funny stuff. See, it is possible to tell jokes related to Catholicism without being a bigot, Kevin Smith.
And Dan, perhaps you can name for me some of that circular logic in Catholic dogma, seeing as how you yourself are a former Catholic. You must have been greatly offended by an apparent contradiction in the dogma. So please, let’s hear all about it.
“Of course. Didn’t you see where I mentioned that lapsed and former Catholics delight in bashing the Church, and defend themselves with the excuse that they are/were Catholic?”
If I missed that he was a lapsed Catholic, let me know and show me the source.
“Yep, that’s some funny stuff, there. A million laughs.”
I thought so!
“My favorite political commentator is Laura Ingraham, not Ann Coulter, thank you very much. ”
You must have missed my point then. How many times have conservatives covered up degrading remarks by pundits going “it’s a joke!”
I love “Dogma”…I thought it was pretty funny.
@PiP: I love Stephen Colbert’s bit on Catholicism. He’s a frakkin’ genius…the end. :)
Also, I don’t think Dogma ever claimed to be an accurate representation of the Catholic Church.
Ari Chan, me too :)
Of course I love almost everything about Stephen Colbert. I better not elaborate on that, it might get a little freaky.
@PiP: *gigglefit*
Have you ever seen “Saved”? That movie is *hilarious*. I’m not a fan of Mandy Moore, but she was great in that movie!
“Jesus Camp” was probably one of the creepiest movies I’ve ever seen…
And to help you out a bit, Dan, I’ll attempt to address some of the points to which I assume you refer based on the movie Dogma:
Objection: It is wrong to say that the Pope is infallible. No human being is infallible, and if the Pope is infallible, what’s to stop him from making all kinds of crazy declarations?
Answer: Nobody ever said that the Pope was infallible. That’s not what “papal infallibility” means. The concept refers to papal teaching on morals “ex cathedra”, meaning “from the chair”. In other words, an official statement on morals from the Pope. However, even in this scenario, there are rules. The Pope cannot contradict the Sacred Scriptures or Catholic Tradition. Ultimately, “papal infallibility” is probably a poor name, seeing as how most people seem to have the wrong idea about it.
Objection: The Pope can declare that anyone can just enter a church and their sins are forgiven.
Answer: No, he can’t. That would contradict Catholic Tradition. There cannot be Absolution without Repentance. It is impossible to be forgiven of sins just by walking into a building.
Objection: Demons can get into Heaven if they’re forgiven by a priest.
Answer: A demon is incapable of Repentance and would never seek forgiveness. A demon is an angel who has full knowledge of the infinite goodness of God and yet has rejected Him anyway. They are not interested in salvation.
Objection: The Catholic Mass is boring.
Answer: The Mass is boring?! Singing praise to the Creator and Savior of the world is boring? Hearing the words of the Sacred Scriptures is boring? Contemplating the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ which opened the door to salvation for all mankind is boring? Receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord is boring? Mass is only boring if you aren’t paying attention.
PIP, as has been said, there is a difference between satire and bigotry. Sometimes Ann Coulter goes too far, for sure, but usually she has a point. Anti-Catholic bigots like Kevin Smith don’t have a point. What they are attacking isn’t Catholicism, but some perverse concept of Catholicism they have in their own warped minds.
Okay, I haven’t seen Dogma but I googled it and it sounds like a pretty bizarre movie.
Why anyone would waste money seeing this …. is beyond me (you can fill in ANY 4 letter word you like).
Nice post @ 9:09pm John.
I sort of like Ann Coulter – I’ve read her Godless: The Church of Liberalism and found it quite interesting.
She’s certainly off-the-wall at times.
“Have you ever seen “Saved”? That movie is *hilarious*. I’m not a fan of Mandy Moore, but she was great in that movie!”
I own that and pretty much have it memorized too. Not a huge fan of Moore either, but she is sooo perfect for that role!
” Sometimes Ann Coulter goes too far, for sure, but usually she has a point. Anti-Catholic bigots like Kevin Smith don’t have a point.”
…you don’t think Dogma had a point?
“I sort of like Ann Coulter – I’ve read her Godless: The Church of Liberalism and found it quite interesting.
Okay, I haven’t seen Dogma but I googled it and it sounds like a pretty bizarre movie.
Why anyone would waste money seeing this …. is beyond me (you can fill in ANY 4 letter word you like).”
Dogma is another Kevin Smith movie-you have to kind of have the sense of humor for it, but at least John has seen it. I hate people who say movies are horrible without seeing them.
But I think it odd that you have read that book that I couldn’t even get through when these are the SAME OBJECTIONS just on opposite sides!
John says: the movie mischaracterizes Catholicism. It’s bigotry.
Most people: Ann Coulter mischaracterizes liberals (or most people that are not radical right wingers) and throws around insults, which leads to bigoted statements.
Plus I see little “satire” there.
No I think Coulter is a brutal female dog (that sleeps with godless savages no less) but I just let her do whatever she wants because it is working well for her. The only thing I don’t get is why she is actually considered a political figure rather than a comedic one, if she is so funny.
But really, she can do what she wants. Can’t rag too much, obviously her books sells themselves. I can enjoy my own blasphemous humor and you can enjoy yours.
@PiP: I say we blow this Popsicle stand and go be blasphemous heathens at the bar down the street…I hear it’s karaoke night… :-p
I don’t know PIP:
Maybe you should read “The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness”
It received alot of press attention this past month.
Since you are comparing Dogmas assault on the Catholic religion with Ann Coulter’s on liberals you have merely confirmed what many of us already know:
Liberalism is a religion….
Hope is not a father bringing his daughter in for an abortion either. I saw that today too. Talk about the destruction of the family unit. We have mothers and fathers with so little “hope” that they take their children for abortions. That is just not right. And Obama is gonna fix that by providing them with the abortuaries to facilitate this “hope”.
At least I assumed it was her father. But he was smiling when they were leaving and she was not. Maybe he wasn’t her father. Maybe he was a sexual predator. But Obama and the rest of those scum at PP don’t give a crap. They do all they can to keep responsibility for pregnancy under the rug. Including no investigation into statutory rape even though the law states that the age for sexual consent is 18. For the love of God people, Obama’s idea of giving pregnant teenagers hope is not to counsel them with aid options, it is to facilitate abortion.
FYI, I’m out-of-pocket all day – speaking at a TX Students for Life conference. So I’ll look over answers tonight and announce the winning later.
Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 1, 2008 8:07 AM
……………………….
Jill, speaking of definitions, out of pocket means that you have spent more money than you have received. Perhaps you meant out of the loop? Or simply out of town?
Ari,
Hope only leads to vast disappointment.
No,no,no…
Hope is what is left in the face of vast disappointment. That which brought you to this vast disappoint was wishful thinking…it’s when you keep going after and in spite of vast disappointment that we call “HOPE”.
Posted by: mk at March 1, 2008 10:00 AM
………………………….
That is called sisu. Dogged determination in the face of extreme adversity. Hope is more about cherishing a desire.
The Holocaust Museum is tragic.
Posted by: heather at March 1, 2008 12:39 PM
………………………….
Why? Is the architecture that bad?
PIP,
Obama offers America hope in his sophomoric addresses. However, one thing is certain by his own record. That hope gives no future to unborn babies. Obama
He doesnt seem like he’d make a great leader. Anyone else?
Posted by: heather at March 1, 2008 1:28 PM
………………………………..
I have a great deal of respect for McCain. I would respect him as my president. Something I haven’t felt confident in stating for a very long time.
If Obama gets in, this country is doomed.
Posted by: heather at March 1, 2008 2:34 PM
…………………
Eeyore is your favorite Pooh character isn’t he.
How many of you pro-choicers will stand up and say they would be happy to drive their daughters for an abortion some day? I saw one such mother today and I saw the look on her dejected daughter. It tears my heart out to see it.
Posted by: truthseeker at March 1, 2008 7:18 PM
………………………………………….
I’m happy to be of any assistance my daughter might need in any situation. Or my son for that matter. I fail to understand why I must ‘stand up’ to state such.
Hope is NOT a mother driving her teenage daughter to Planned Parenthood so that somebody like SoMG can kill their baby.
Posted by: truthseeker at March 1, 2008 7:01 PM
………………………………….
Hope is cherishing the desire for your daughter to have a fulfilling life. If driving her to a facility to have an abortion is relevant to that fulfillment, I’m all over it.
Sally,
Wow, a McCain-maybe…really?
I would had you pegged as a die-hard democrat!
Sally,
Wow, a McCain-maybe…really?
I would had you pegged as a die-hard democrat!
Posted by: JLM at March 1, 2008 11:15 PM
………………………………
While you peg, I dart.
“Ann Coulter’s on liberals you have merely confirmed what many of us already know:
Liberalism is a religion….”
If you don’t understand any level of comparison I guess I can’t help you.
Sally,
I think the problem is that they like to keep us in little boxes like that.
Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes made of ticky-tacky….
And the winner is… drumroll…
John Lewandowski, 3/1, 6:52a! John, please email me your address.
Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. ~ Hebrews 10:19-23
The hope each of us has within our hearts was placed there by God, a longing for heaven and the belief we will get there through faith in Jesus. Then – finally! – there will be perfection.
Any other hope or source of hope is dead-ended.
Congrats, John. Good source.
John, congratulations!
Hope is the virtue by which we firmly believe that God,who is all- good and faithful to His promises,will in His mercy,give us eternal life and the means to obtain it. -St. Joseph BALTIMORE Catechism
PIP, Ann Coulter exaggerates, but there is almost always some truth to what she says about liberals. Dogma is not an exaggeration; it’s all wrong. It’s a complete misrepresentation of several Catholic concepts.
Jill, I wish Obama would read the Catechism’s definition of hope. Maybe then he would stop abusing the word.
“Hope is cherishing the desire for your daughter to have a fulfilling life. If driving her to a facility to have an abortion is relevant to that fulfillment, I’m all over it.”
And that’s the whole problem with society in a nutshell. No one has a RIGHT to fulfillment in this life. And certainly not at the expense of a baby’s life.
So, Sally what you are saying is that NOTHING will get in the way of your daughter’s fulfillment. That means killing your grandchild so your daughter will be fulfilled. Pretty damn sad.
Just be careful the lesson you teach her doesn’t come back to bite your butt. Heaven help you when your an old nag in the nursing home getting in the way of your daughter’s FULFILLMENT.
There is some truth to Dogma, but the truth doesn’t rely on its accuracy on some church teachings. Those are simply plot devices. The movie is more about coming to terms with God and your purpose in life and learning to find faith when you think you’ve lost it.
“Ann Coulter exaggerates, but there is almost always some truth to what she says about liberals. ”
Oh please, you only think there is truth in what Ann Coulter vomits because you’re already biased against liberals. That’s like me saying there is some truth in what Michael Moore says about conservatives. *eyeroll*
“That’s like me saying there is some truth in what Michael Moore says about conservatives.”
hehe, touche
“The hope each of us has within our hearts was placed there by God, a longing for heaven and the belief we will get there through faith in Jesus. Then – finally! – there will be perfection.”
Sadly, part of Obama’s belief system includes “faith in Jesus.” He’s a man of faith and of Christ. (as much as it pains me to say it) You guys should give him a chance. He might not be pro-life (as you guys use the word) but he’s pro-God.
Sally,
Somehow I assumed you could be one of those mother’s who cherish their daughters future so much that you would take her to the slaugterhouse. Of course you do it for her and not for yourself right. Then you wouldn;t have to come up with the time and money to support her child. .
Sally has had an abortion too. It’s probably acceptable to her.
“You are scum.”
that’s got to be a violation of the rules
Sally,
Somehow I assumed you could be one of those mother’s who cherish their daughters future so much that you would take her to the slaugterhouse. Of course you do it for her and not for yourself right. Then you wouldn;t have to come up with the time and money to support her child. You are scum.
Posted by: truthseeker at March 2, 2008 12:33 PM
…………………………….
My daughter is an engineer with a masters in architecture. She makes very very good money and has quite a bright future. She and her husband have no need of assistance in supporting any children they may decide to have. You know what they say about people that make assumptions. Now you’ll have to excuse me. It’s my son’s 28th birthday and I have much to do for his party.
People who make assumptions? Yeah, just like those who assume that an unplanned pregnancy will ruin their lives. It turns out to be the best blessing ever.
“You are scum.”
that’s got to be a violation of the rules
Posted by: Hal at March 2, 2008 12:36 PM
………………………
There are no rules against stupidity or wild eyed paranoia on this blog Hal. It seems to be de rigour.
Like women who assume that abortion is a 15 minute procedure that will solve all of her problems. They never assume that the abortion will come back to haunt them. They never assumed that they could suffer from a life time of torment and mental anguish.
Hal,
“You are scum.”
*
that’s got to be a violation of the rules
It was.
It’s gone.
Sadly, part of Obama’s belief system includes “faith in Jesus.” He’s a man of faith and of Christ. (as much as it pains me to say it) You guys should give him a chance. He might not be pro-life (as you guys use the word) but he’s pro-God.
Posted by: Hal at March 2, 2008 12:32 PM
Just because someone say he is a follower of some religion doesn’t mean he shares the same values. I have wonderful muslim friends who do not support violence, however we know that there are muslims who do support violence.
There are non-violent muslims and violent muslims.
There are anti abortion christians and then there are Tiller and Obama who kill and support killing of innocent children.
I think it is better to look objectively at someone’s record and votes and vote for the person who will best represent you, rather than assume that because of talent or race or religion, you will be happy with that person as a president.
I just make the case for objectivity over hype, religious or otherwise.
Like women who assume that abortion is a 15 minute procedure that will solve all of her problems. They never assume that the abortion will come back to haunt them. They never assumed that they could suffer from a life time of torment and mental anguish.
Posted by: heather at March 2, 2008 1:25 PM
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Quite obviously the only problem solved by an abortion is an unwanted pregnancy. Anyone tormented over a freely made decision needs much more help than they will find from anyone posting on this blog.
People who make assumptions? Yeah, just like those who assume that an unplanned pregnancy will ruin their lives. It turns out to be the best blessing ever.
Posted by: heather at March 2, 2008 1:22 PM
……………………………….
One size does not fit all heather.
Sadly, part of Obama’s belief system includes “faith in Jesus.” He’s a man of faith and of Christ. (as much as it pains me to say it) You guys should give him a chance. He might not be pro-life (as you guys use the word) but he’s pro-God.
Posted by: Hal at March 2, 2008 12:32 PM
Prove it, Hal.
I’m purple with pink, blue and green polka dots.
Just because I say it doesn’t make it true.
Just because Obama goes to a church, doesn’t make him a man of faith.
Hope is what this website makes me not feel. What a bunch of Pharisitical hypocrites. Do I win? Please? I want one of your DVD’s so I can feel even more hopeless.
Justin, you do sound like you could use a DVD.
Pharisitical hypocrites
HUH????
Heather,
LOL!
PIP, so the character in the movie finds “faith” by gunning down angels? What the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks kind of lesson is that? Though it is interesting that you’re telling me that Dogma has a point to it while Dan insists that it’s just a comedy. Also, you’re telling me that the Catholicism in the movie is just a plot device, but Dan says that the movie is critiquing Catholicism. Huh!
Ari-chan, the difference between Ann Coulter and Michael Moore is that Ann Coulter is honest and Michael Moore is not. Not every liberal is dishonest, either. SoMG is very honest when he admits that he supports the killing of babies because he feels that they are guilty of being unjust aggressors, just like a thief with a gun.
I am not biased against liberals; if they would stop advocating insane policies, I would have nothing against them.
And somebody give Justin a hug. Preferably one of you pro-aborts, because he doesn’t like us Pharisees. See, we leave the log in our own eye while taking the speck out of someone else’s. We do really bad stuff, like, try to correct sinners, and all they’re doing is aborting babies. Who are we to judge?!?
Oh please, Ann Coulter…honest? The woman lies just as much as Michael Moore in order to sell her damn books just like Michael Moore lies to sell his damn movies.
If you weren’t biased against liberals, you wouldn’t constantly use “liberal” as a derogatory title, which is exactly what you do 99.99% of the time in your posts that even mention “liberal” in it. You do have a lot against them…a lot of anger and frustration and it definitely shows.
As for Dogma, who cares? It’s a movie. Is it biased? Yep. Is it politically incorrect? You bet. Should it bother you? No. If it really is as worthless as you think it is, why dignify it with watching it and whining about how bigoted it is? Whining about movies is unproductive and all it does is increase the number of people who go see that movie.
Case in Point: The Golden Compass. A crappy movie, but people raved about how anti-Catholic it was and how NOBODY should see that “filth” and it ended up doing reasonably well when it shouldn’t have for the quality of movie that it was.
See, we leave the log in our own eye while taking the speck out of someone else’s. We do really bad stuff, like, try to correct sinners, and all they’re doing is aborting babies. Who are we to judge?!?
Right, John. What the heck is the matter with us!
And oh, Pharisee!…I thought he meant parasitical. HA!
PIP: “I disagree heavily about that, but I believe that he won’t (or can’t) do much related to the abortion issue, any more than Bush did.”
PIP, I though you were smarter than that. ..supreme court judges, pro-lifers need one more to swing the balence.
and here, President Bush’s record om life issues..:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1140835/posts
“PIP, so the character in the movie finds “faith” by gunning down angels?”
Bethany gunned down the angels?
“Though it is interesting that you’re telling me that Dogma has a point to it while Dan insists that it’s just a comedy.”
It is a comedy. Comedy doesn’t have to mean it’s mindless, though. But lol in this day and age that is generally the case. Good comedy makes you laugh, even sometimes when it’s politically incorrect, but at times it also makes you think. There are some parts of Dogma that do make me think. There are a lot of discussions happening in that movie, remember?
“Also, you’re telling me that the Catholicism in the movie is just a plot device, but Dan says that the movie is critiquing Catholicism. Huh!”
Meh. We see it in different ways then. I just don’t think the plot device (renegade angels sneaking back into heaven through a loophole) is supposed to be a massive attack on Catholicism. (Although, a person taking it that seriously might think so). Unless Dan is referring to the numerous discussions Bethany has with others, in which I agree some of them are very interesting, and some critique religion in general, and others are personal things that are good to think about. Getting hung up over the politically-incorrect humor and plot devices therefore seems pointless to me. I laugh at the crassness and appreciate the meaning in other parts. That’s a Kevin Smith style. His movie could be total guy humor, blah blah blah, but there is always some part in there that makes you go, “hm.” If you don’t like his style you don’t like his style. But getting seriously offended by it is just silly ;)
Hey, who knew a movie could mean different things to different people?
Jasper some of these aren’t even “life issues”.
National day of prayer? Against gay pride? No birth control?
Again most of these are veto/pass actions and I still don’t see a dwindling abortion rate. Maybe after all these years it’s time to change our strategy. Or we could wait around another 30 years and hope that just voting will do the trick.
PIP,
I see those as life issues.
@JLM: None of those are life issues. Prayer, gay pride and birth control have nothing to do with life and death.
“Again most of these are veto/pass actions and I still don’t see a dwindling abortion rate. Maybe after all these years it’s time to change our strategy.”
yea, allowing aborted alive infants left to die and having PBA legal oughta help huh PIP. Also, Obama will not veto a Freedom of Choice bill which will allow abortion in all 9 months of pregnancy.
it could’ve been worse with an pro-abort prese
Ari-chan,
If you’re a believer in Christ, they sure do!
*twitch*
If Obama is put under pressure he will act accordingly.
@JLM: I don’t believe in Christ. And I’m really not sure how believing in Christ means that gay pride is a life or death issue. I can see birth control (allegedly)…but gay pride? Nope. I think that’s probably just bigotry as opposed to “faith”.
Ari-chan,
I believe I remember you saying that you didn’t believe many times. I was just stating the reason why I do believe that they have to do with life.
I see that gay pride is a life or death issue, because when we don’t follow God’s ways, there are consequences. I thoroughly believe that AIDS was put on this planet as a consequence to the sin of sexual immorality. That being said, if Bush opposed gay pride, he would be in opposition to death, via AIDS and/or eternal. Thus, I believe it is a life issue, faith issue, and not bigotry.
I certainly don’t expect you to agree with me on that one, though.
@JLM: I don’t agree at all, in fact I virulently disagree and think it’s dreadful you think that way, however I acknowledge you more than likely think it’s horrific that I disagree. But I think I won’t pursue the subject because it’ll cause me to possibly become less-than-civil and that would be bad. :)
Consider this little subject/tiff dropped, for me anyway.
No tiff, and no I don’t think it’s horrific that you disagree. I expected it. We all have different viewpoints on things here.
:)
@JLM: :)
I am sorely tempted to attempt a thread derailing…just to avoid doing homework. Lol.
Ari,
You’re too funny!
Ari-Chan, liberal is a descriptive term, not necessarily an insult. Some conservatives use it as an insult, but I usually don’t. What word would you like me to use to describe liberal policies? Progressive? Leftist? Is it an insult if I describe conservative policies as conservative? Please, tell me which words I’m allowed to use.
PIP, the only other thing I have to say about Dogma is that if they made the exact same movie but the plot device used was Judaism or Islam instead of Catholicism, there would be outrage over the bigotry of the film. Without a doubt. The same goes for “The Da Vinci Code” and “Stigmata”, which are most likely the two most anti-Catholic movies of all time. Now if you’ve never seen them, go out and rent them as I’ve tipped you off. Good ol’ Catholic bashin’ fun!
I can’t remember anything from Dogma, but Stigmata DEFINITELY has an agenda to undermine the Catholic Church. I’m thinking of the whole gnostic angle and the little blip at the end of the movie about how the church refuses to consider these “new” documents as scripture. I don’t know if that necessarily makes it anti-catholic, but maybe John has some other elements of the movie in mind.
@John: It’s just to me…that it seems as though you use “liberal” as a derogatory term based on the tone of the rest of your writing. However, I suppose I should recognize that tone is a bit hard to decipher on the intarwebz at times compared to speech.
That’s just what *I* get out of it, and it appears as though I have misinterpreted your intentions. I’ve always noticed on this board that many people on here use ‘liberal’ as a derogatory statement used to generalize about those who support progressive ideals…so I ASSumed you did the same and apparently I was incorrect.
Pardon my ASSumptions. :) Truce, good sir?
I think that all of these movies are underlying or “in your face” blasphemy against God. Whether or not it’s comedy or fiction, any movie that blasphemes God I won’t watch.
@JLM: Then don’t watch “Monty Python and the Holy Grail” or “Monty Python: The Life of Brian”… :)
Thanks for the tip, Ari!
There’s nothing I hate more about movies, than not knowing much about them, renting them, hating them, then not watching them. I’ve wasted more money….
LOL John if you haven’t noticed, there are many Jew jokes made at their expense ALL THE TIME, and they are equally as funny to me.
I haven’t seen a movie that uses Islam as a comedic plot device, but there are a few Saturday TV Funhouse cartoons that do, and I laugh at too. There have been all kinds of things on TDS and TCR that address all kinds of religious stuff that gets very funny. If you need to, I could totally hook you up on those videos so that you might giggle and even see my point.
You will see John that some people have different senses of humor than you do.
@JLM: As have I…”Chumscrubber” and “Full Frontal” were awful movies…boring…trying too hard to be “hip, edgy and indie”.
I haven’t rented a movie since I rented all of “Heroes” back in October/November.
Though for the record, both movies I tipped out on…well, at least the first one…are very funny. At least I thought so. I love Monty Python, British humor makes my day. :)
And I mean really, I haven’t seen TDVC but I read the book and hated it. Not because I thought it was “anti-catholic” just because he is such a horrible writer. Reading it was practically unbearable it was so trite and predictable.
John, I have seen all of the movies that you have mentioned. Well no, I haven’t seen The Da Vinci Code but have read the book. These are all works of fiction produced for entertainment. They are not documentaries. How you find them to be a personal attack upon your religion is beyond me. Do you believe that Catholics are in danger of being rounded up and exterminated?
@PiP: The poor writing and Tom Hanks’ hair cut pretty much pwn’d the movie…which I didn’t see. I didn’t read the book either because I heard it sucked.
lol, no man should do that to their hair. Blasphemy!
@PiP: No kidding! I mean, I
Shoot! The rest of my post didn’t show up.
I said, “I mean I love Tom Hanks, but good lord man! That hair was awful! Almost as goofy as his hair in “Forrest Gump”, however that movie was infinitely better than the “Da Vinci Code” could ever dream to be.
Totally!
PIP, you are mistaken. Jewish jokes are about stereotypes, like the stereotype that Jewish people are good with money. That’s not what I’m talking about.
I’m talking about a movie which uses the Jewish religion as a plot device, like Dogma does with the Catholic religion. Dogma doesn’t say, “Haha, Catholics have guilt, isn’t that funny?!” or otherwise use stereotypes for humor. Dogma directly attacks the Catholic religion itself, arguing that religion is bad (especially the Catholic religion of the main character) while arbitrary “faith” is good. Dogma mocks the, well, dogma of the Catholic faith. A similar movie about Judaism or Islam would never and could never be made due to righteous public anger. That’s a good thing, but it’s too bad that the same courtesy can’t be extended to Catholicism.
Sally, I understand that Dogma, Stigmata, and The Da Vinci Code are fictional movies. And yet, for some reason, that doesn’t stop people from taking them seriously – especially The Da Vinci Code. Perhaps you are unaware, but if you make use of Google, you’ll see that thousands of people seem to believe the ridiculous ideas presented in The Da Vinci Code. The benign Catholic organization Opus Dei, which is depicted as an evil cult in the movie, had its reputation dragged through the mud all over the media, and now, the name “Opus Dei” is synonymous with – you guessed it – evil cults. I don’t think that Catholics are about to be rounded up, but I think there’s more than enough anti-Catholic bigotry in the world without movies making up crap about us.
Larry David uses his Jewish religion as a plot device in his show Curb Your Enthusiasm. I think it is funny.
the STF cartoons used Islam as short plot devices and I have no doubt that some of them are exaggerated or not true. Is till think its funny.
And seriously if in the movie a character says, “faith in God is more important than adhering to a specific religion,” that is okay by me to have that opinion, and it doesn’t represent the Catholic Church either, so I’m not sure where you are getting at there.
Sally said:
***********
My daughter is an engineer with a masters in architecture. She makes very very good money and has quite a bright future. She and her husband have no need of assistance in supporting any children they may decide to have. You know what they say about people that make assumptions.
***********
Sally, I feel sorry for you if success in the business world is how you guage a fulfilling life. Each and every and any child is worth all that and more. Giving up your child to abotion is like giving up that potential for fullfillment.
Dogma does use stereotypes too. Bethany is an example of a bored cafeteria-catholic, for example. They are all over the place in that movie, actually. Religious jokes of all flavors are everywhere nowadays. I don’t mind it though, I just enjoy comedy for what it is.
PIP, I can’t comment since I don’t know what those shows are, so I don’t know if the situations you mentioned are truly analogous. Oh, bother. Just one question – did either of those shows result in the demonization of a benign Jewish or Islamic organization?
the….demonization?
Just like good people can get it wrong sometimes… You know, like Hal and Laura and Doug…good people, they’ve just got this one TEENY TINY thing wrong…
Hey MK, thank you – that’s pretty charitable. Especially because we’re not in the crowd that believes the nutty stuff that Pat Robertson often says, or that, “God was going to call Oral Roberts home” (@@) unless he got so many millions of Dollars from people out there in TV land…. Good Grief – who would fall for such stuff? I don’t think you do either.
Doug
Obama:
He
Opens
Possibilities
Everywhere
PIP,
The problem with movies like TDVC is that they misrepresent something that is near and dear to our hearts. I’m sure you can relate on some level, if not a religious one, right?
PIP, the crux of the matter is that movies like Dogma, TDVC, and Stigmata result in more anti-Catholic bigotry in society. They cause the Catholic Church (the Vatican in particular) to be demonized in general, and sometimes individual Catholic organizations like Opus Dei are arbitrarily targeted for slander. Does Larry David’s show cause anti-Jewish bigotry?
Obama:
Articulate
Bloviating
Orator
Regurgitates
The
Insanities
Of
Nihilism
John,
I know some Opus Dei priests and lay people, and I must say they are the nicest, most down-to-earth people I’ve ever met. Nothing cultish about them. I didn’t want to support the movie, so I don’t know if they mentioned the founder of Opus Dei, Jose Maria Escriva. He has several small books, “The Way”, “The Forge”, and others, which are inspirational and very easy to read. I love his direct, no-nonsense style. Highly recommended!
I wouldn’t know, because I don’t know anyone who has Catholic bigotry because of those movies. I know several Catholics that love it.
But I’m sure I can say that there is plenty of Jew and Islamic bigotry to go around, too. Whether it’s caused by comedy, I really wouldn’t know.
Obama:
He
Opens
Possibilities
Everywhere
Posted by: Doug at March 2, 2008 10:32 PM
I nominate this comment for the ‘scary’ thought for the day.
Imagine the possibilities everywhere for a totally unprincipled front man.
Seconding that thought that he may do whatever he is pressured to do whether that pressure is visible to the public or not, I give you the runner up ‘scary’ thought for the day, yikes:
If Obama is put under pressure he will act accordingly.
Posted by: prettyinpink at March 2, 2008 7:41 PM
@JLM: I don’t believe in Christ. And I’m really not sure how believing in Christ means that gay pride is a life or death issue. I can see birth control (allegedly)…but gay pride? Nope. I think that’s probably just bigotry as opposed to “faith”.
Posted by: Ari-chan at March 2, 2008 7:47 PM
Here are some health statistics to be proud of from the NYC health dept. I can’t speak for all gays but from what I have seen they consider HIV a life and death issue, which is why there are so many GLBT groups promoting HIV awareness, research etc.
NYC stats are shocking. According to the NYC Health Department:
York City has the highest AIDS case rate in the country, with more AIDS cases than Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, and Washington DC combined. HIV is the 3rd leading cause of death below age 65 in New York City…..
Approximately 1 in 70 New Yorkers is infected with HIV…
1 in 40 African Americans.
1 in 25 men living in Manhattan.
1 in 12 black men age 40-49 years.
1 in 10 men who have sex with men.
1 in 8 injection drug users.
1 in 5 black men age 40-49 in Manhattan.
1 in 4 men who have sex with men in Chelsea.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/ah/ah.shtml
NYC health dept website
anti catholic/christian bigotry –
the last acceptable bigotry.
****continued from previous weekend thread******
(Repeat)
Bethany,
I understand why you see it that way…the problem is, the Bible cannot contradict itself. If Jesus is saying that Peter is the foundation of the church, then it plainly contradicts 1 Cor. 3:11 (among other verses): “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
Peter is the Rock, NOT foundation. Jesus says this.
JESUS is the Foundation of the church. He hands the keys to the kingdom to Peter and says “upon this rock I will build my church” (on earth) – (NOT “upon this rock I will build myself”). There is absolutely no contradiction here.
Originally Posted by: Janet at March 3, 2008 12:15 PM
The first paragraph should be in italics, attributed to Bethany. Sorry!
why is it scary to believe that if the american people want something then the president will act accordingly? If America doesn’t want the president to sign a certain abortion bill into law, chances are he will act accordingly. I see him take criticism and use them to better his campaign all the time. So I think he will be both a stable and reasonable president.
It’s better than the Bush administration’s stubbornness on everything-and look! He’s leaving office with a 30% approval rating–imagine that!
PIP,
the democrat controlled congress has a lower approval rating.
the congress can’t do anything if the president vetoes everything that passes. Maybe once we have a president who’s competent we will actually get something done. Many americans are failing to see this.
but yeah it’s still higher than the presidents.
No PIP:
Congress approval rating 22%
Presient Bush approval rating 34%
jasper, source please. As far as I know, it was 40%.
And as I said, this is mostly due to the lack of progress in Iraq, and somehow the realization hasn’t set in that congress has for a very long time been trying to make the progress but Bush vetoes it all. Don’t blame lack of progress on the congress.
PIP,
here you go:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/archive/?poll_id=18
“And as I said, this is mostly due to the lack of progress in Iraq”
No, it’s because of the progress in Iraq, not the lack of. Democrats promised to lose the war in Iraq, now there having to backtrack.
LOL jasper, if we were really having progress there why would there be disapproval?
PIP, most folks have already admitted that “the surge” in Iraq has been largely successful. So why is Congress so unpopular? Simple:
-A Democrat controlled Congress is not going to be popular with conservatives, and
-The Democratic Party base wants us to lose in Iraq, and they are ticked off that some of the Dems in Congress now think we can win.
Ironically, the Congress would be more popular if it were more liberal – but only up to 33% popularity, because only about 1/3 of America is liberal. Also ironically, President Bush would also be more popular if he were more conservative. Liberals hate Bush because that’s all they know how to do when it comes to the man, and conservatives are mad at Bush because he hasn’t been conservative enough.