Pope at White House
It’s an exciting, beautiful morning in DC. In about an hour the President and a “mass” (pardon the pun… :) of 12,000 will greet the Pope on the South Lawn of the White House, the largest throng ever to gather there. What a memorable “Happy Birthday” they should sing to him, as today he turns 81.
My daughter is in the crowd, as is Dawn Eden of The Dawn Patrol, and Scott Johnston, friend to commenter Andrew and me, who used to work for Priests for Life. Just spoke with them, and they all made it through security and are now standing by the fountain.
The Pope is expected to address the Life issue while here, certainly when he speaks before the United Nations Friday on the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and hopefully more often than that.
The Passionate Pro-Lifer did note in an “Irony Alert” yesterday that one of the Pontiff’s greeters as he arrived at Andrews Air Force Base yesterday was Nancy Brinker, US Chief of Protocol and friend of Laura Bush, who also who just happens to have founded the Susan G Komen Foundation.
As PPL reported, “Just this past week, it was revealed that Komen gave $700K to Planned Parenthood.”
Life can’t be perfect, but it is still a beautiful day, even here in Chicago!
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Jill, our Executive Director Karen is at the White House too and is directly in front of the podiums. She will be calling throughout the day and I’ll be posting her comments.
http://www.cplc.blogspot.com
Fox news is running a live feed off their web site.
Glad that Scott made it in. I was wondering..
Yes, I’m watching it on Fox, broke into tears a couple times already. How exciting that Karen is in front! Can’t wait to read her updates.
I wish I were special enough to talk to the Pope. I’m not Catholic, though, for one… I don’t know it seems sort of elitist. In any case, I would just enjoy sitting down with him for a cup of coffee and asking him about the Catholic faith. Simply for an educational perspective. What better person to ask?
Coffee is good. I bet Pope coffee is godly. :)
Bush nailed it. Best speech he ever gave…
Pope is getting warmed up..
I couldn’t understand the Pope. Andrew, is there text available?
He does have a thick German accent…
Haven’t seen the full text yet.
Here is some real good commentary and excerpts from a reliable Catholic source.
http://www.pope2008.com
My heart dropped when Nancy Pelosi kissed the Pope’s ring. I wanted to wretch…
OMG! Mine did too Andrew! I absolutely cringed…
@Andrew and Bobby: Perhaps her meeting with the Pope could maybe change her mind on certain, prevalent issues?
Rae, you’re right. I should have said a prayer for herrather than cringe. Would have done a lot more good. This is something I definitely need to be reminded of.
“Freedom is not only a gift, but also a summons to personal responsibility.”
HAH! You tell ’em Benedict!
That was Nancy Peloisi? She’s just doing that as public act, trying to say “See? I’m Catholic!” I’d actually cringe more if John “I was an altar boy” Kerry was there and kissing his ring.
EWTN has the best coverage. I like Raymond Arroyo.
They should have coverage of a parade in the Pope Mobile pretty soon.
*so proud of her Catholic Faith right now*
*poke*
Eh, we’re all human. :)
My heart dropped when Nancy Pelosi kissed the Pope’s ring. I wanted to wretch…
Posted by: Andrew at April 16, 2008 10:35 AM
*****************
Oh yeah – people are only ‘good catholics’ if you approve of them and youre in a position to judge their relationship with god
“Oh yeah – people are only ‘good catholics’ if you approve of them and youre in a position to judge their relationship with god
Posted by: TexasRed at April 16, 2008 11:00 AM”
——————————————-
TR,
Good Catholics are the ones who follow the teachings of the Church in word and in deed.
These so-called “Catholics” do neither.
You better do your research first before you start your criticizms.
No Texas Red. But the Catholic Church is clear in its teaching that the killing of inncoent human beings is incompatible not only with who we are as human beings.
It’s also incompatible with the idea, of which Christianity is based on, that God is the author and creator of human life and is its final arbitrer.
I can apply the teaching of the Church to a person and see that she does not match up. At its root, though, it’s her dishonesty in presenting herself as a “good” Catholic that is troublesome and is offensive to those Catholic’s who do strive to live out the Church’s teachings.
But also, are you saying that I don’t have the right to influence public policy in the direction that I seek? Do I not have the right to publicly criticize someone who is fudamentally dishonest about who she is and the effect that has on our political scene?
Sounds like you’re the one that’s being judgemental.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
Christ’s words are very straightforward, people. I bet NONE of you are perfect Catholics.
RSD, just curious, if Nancy Pelosi has never gotten an abortion and would never have considered getting an abortion, how is it that she’s not following the teachings of the church in word and deed?
Pelosi is nothing but a heretic. I’m sure the Pope knows that already.
Thanks for judging me Leah. Follow your own advice.
Full text of Pope’s speech:
http://wcbstv.com/papalvisit/pope.benedict.speech.2.701076.html
Don’t know how accurate it is.
None of us are judging the state of her soul, Leah. No can say her level of culpability. But objectively speaking, she supports an objectively grave action that is condemned by the Catholic Church, abortion. This can not be tolerated.
I want to congratulate my Catholic brothers and sisters that the earthly leader of their church is willing to make a courageous stand against abortion.
And for Nancy Pelosi to kiss the Pope’s ring is synonomous with her agreement of everything Catholic. Hence, she judges herself by doing things that are in direct opposition to the Catholic Church.
Perhaps MK you could expound on this?
And Leah:
This is an often misquoted and misused statement of Christ. Are we not to make any judgements with regards to bad behavior like murder, rape, incest, theivery and adultery? What Christ is saying here is not to make any final judgement on any one’s eternal destiny which would have the effect of excluding that person from ever being redeemed. Why try to reach someone you already have judged is going to hell?
Now you can say to a person, “if you continue in your behavior and unbelief you will go to hell”, the Bible teaches that. In fact to teach that to someone is obeying the commands of Scripture and an act of love and concern.
I bet NONE of you are perfect Catholics.
Posted by: Leah at April 16, 2008 11:12 AM
We CAN judge her actions Leah and her actions state that she is anti-life and not in step with Catholic teachings.
If she does not agree with the Catholic teaching on abortion and contraception she is quite free to leave the church and choose whatever faith fits her beliefs.
As fellow Catholics we have a duty to reprimand Nancy and encourage her to follow the teachings of the church.
“RSD, just curious, if Nancy Pelosi has never gotten an abortion and would never have considered getting an abortion, how is it that she’s not following the teachings of the church in word and deed?
Posted by: Hieronymous at April 16, 2008 11:12 AM”
———————————
The very fact that she (and the rest of her ilk) SUPPORTS abortion is enough.
You can check Jasper’s quotes of the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church) on abortion in the other post.
Anyone who actively participates in an abortion or promotes abortion is not in union with the Catholic church teachings. This applies to politicians who vote for bills that in any way support abortion.
A person who has an abortion or in any other way actively participates in an abortion is automatically excommunicated by the church. They must seek the Sacrament of Penance before they can receive Holy Communion.
Actually as for Nancy Pelosi having the gall to kiss the Pope’s ring I’m not very surprised.
My x is an apostate Catholic and he makes no bones about coming into church and sitting at the very front. Makes my friends very angry.
This seems to be very common among apostates..
On the other hand, one can be hopeful that as he sits nearer to the tabernacle, maybe the grace will penetrate his heart????
I guess I just don’t see how voting for a bill that may in some way support legalized abortion is the same thing as actively participating in an abortion.
Jess, out of line. Deleting.
BEcause Hier. by voting for a bill that supports abortion, a Catholic politician (and any other person who voted yes) is indirectly participating in the thousands and thousands of abortions that will result due to the bill be implemented. If abortion were not legal, there is no doubt that many women would go through with their pregnancies and look for alternatives to abortion. It is also likely that society itself would seek other types of support for pregnant and distressed women.
Secondly, because support is against Catholic teaching this causes scandal among other Catholics. We have duty to give good example to our fellow men, especially the young.
We are all accountable for our actions and our ommissions too.
Leah,
Being a “perfect” Catholic, does not mean never sinning. There is no such thing as a “perfect” Catholic.
But being Catholic does mean “something”…
Haven’t you ever filled out one of those things when you’re trying to access a website that won’t let you go any further until and unless you check the “I agree” box?
What does it mean to be Catholic, if not that you agree with and want to belong to a group that holds a certain set of beliefs?
Wouldn’t you cringe if you saw Bill Maher or Jon Stewart kissing Bill O’reilly’s ring? When you know the contempt they hold Mr. O’reilly in?
It’s not like she isn’t a Catholic but is just showing her respect to an “official”…by kissing his ring, as a Catholic, she is staking a claim on the faith…and we know that she doesn’t really follow it.
I would even say that she is the antithesis of the faith. She thumbs her nose at it. It’s the hypocrisy that we are commenting on.
I will say tho, that Rae, who is going to make an AWESOME Catholic, got it right. Praying for her would most definitely have been the “most” Catholic response.
But try to see it from our point of view. Nancy Pelosi is our enemy in the fight for life. Pope Benedict is a General for our side. Seeing the enemy “pretending” to be on our side is kind of upsetting. We’d welcome her with open arms if she wasn’t on the “wrong” side in the greatest spiritual battle in history. All she’d have to do is say “Oh, I get it. You’re right, abortion is wrong and I’ll do everything I can to stop it”…Until then, she is a danger and a threat.
It’s like watching satan kiss a crucifix. *shudder*
TR,
Good Catholics are the ones who follow the teachings of the Church in word and in deed.
These so-called “Catholics” do neither.
You better do your research first before you start your criticizms.
Posted by: RSD at April 16, 2008 11:08 AM
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As I pointed out, Catholics have been disagreeing with *church policy* for centuries. The only difference now is you dont get to burn them for it. But pretending youre in a position to judge their relationship with god is inexcusably arrogant.
Sounds like you’re the one that’s being judgemental.
Posted by: Andrew at April 16, 2008 11:12 AM
***************
youre the one trying to pretend you can sit in judgment of some strangers relationship with god, not me
Please don’t bring in the inquisition here TR, since we are not discussing this.
We are discussing the fact that these people call themselves “practicing Catholics” but in fact are in dissent over a major portion of Catholic doctrine. If you don’t believe in what the Catholic church teaches, then leave for another religion.
What is the point in staying in the faith, they are already outside of it as a result of their personal beliefs and actions and as such are not “practicing” their faith anyway.
TR,
You seem to think it’s ok for you to sit in judgement of those you think are sitting in judgement.
Carla,
Its just the typical intolerant, tolerant left proabort attitude. They can have their opinions and judge, but if anyone disagrees those people are racist, hate-mongers, intolerant, bigots.
Don’t forget idiots. :)
I’ve never seen a more hateful bunch of human beings. Disgusting.
I’ve never seen a more hateful bunch of human beings. Disgusting.
We don’t hate you Edyt, we just hate abortion.
For anyone who want to follow the Pope’s travels in the U.S., go to:
http://www.pope2008.typepad.com/
Here’s a book that comes highly recommended. I posted it on the other thread as well. The author speaks German and went to the Pope’s hometown to learn more about Pope Benedict:
“BENEDICT OF BAVARIA”
An Intimate Portrait of the Pope and His Homeland
by Brennan Pursell
Highlighting a little-known personal side of Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, this book places him in the context of his homeland, Bavaria – a place which the author, Brennan Pursell, has come to know well through extensive travel and study over the last twelve years. Explore the extraordinary brilliance of Pope Benedict’s mind and the universality of his vocation within the context of his identity as a simple son of his beloved homeland, Bavaria. Includes color photos and a rare look at a day in the life of the Pope. Just in time for the Pope’s visit to the U.S. this spring – order your copy today!
Hardcover w/dustjacket, 240 pp
Circle Press USA
ISBN 1-933271-17-5
Janet 4:40 exactly!
If someone ever says “Judge not lest ye be judged” to me in person in an attempt to justify sin, I think I might feel obligated to kick them in the butt.
Look, folks, it’s very simple. If you’re in a state of mortal sin, you’re not supposed to receive Communion until you have been to Confession. Catholics who are vocally and loudly pro-abortion are proudly and publically mortal sinners. It is completely inappropriate for them to present themselves for Communion.
If Catholic politicians want to be pro-abortion, then they should leave the Catholic Church. There are plenty of “Christian” denominations which are pro-abortion. They could join Obama’s church, for example.
If Catholic politicians want to be pro-abortion, then they should leave the Catholic Church.
Why, John? Can’t they just keep going to confession and one day realize and turn from their sinful ways? If “the Catholic Church” is the only means of salvation, why would you want to doom someone to hell??? Are you perfect?
If Catholic politicians want to be pro-abortion, then they should leave the Catholic Church.
Why, John? Can’t they just keep going to confession and one day realize and turn from their sinful ways? If “the Catholic Church” is the only means of salvation, why would you want to doom someone to hell??? Are you perfect?
JLM,
I believe they would need to repent and change their ways, OR if they don’t repent – stop receiving the sacraments until they repent. They don’t have to actually “leave” and find another church, that’s up to them.
The problem if they stay, and do not repent, they are not living up to the example they should be as Catholic public leaders. See my post about “scandal” on the other Pope thread for more info on how the CCC defines “scandal”, and I think you will understand.
JLM,
See Jasper post @ 11:32 and Janet post @ 11:58 on the OTHER Pope thread today.
I’ve never seen a more hateful bunch of human beings. Disgusting.
Well, technically, Edyt…you’ve never “seen” us. And why are we hateful exactly? A lot of the comments I’ve read from you are dripping with hatred so I guess you MUST belong here.
JLM, are you saying that Protestant churches can’t lead to salvation? I certainly never said that.
Personally I would prefer it if they left the Catholic Church. Better a bitter, hateful, lying anti-Catholic ex-Catholic than a bitter, hateful, lying anti-Catholic ‘practicing’ Catholic. But if they want to repent, great! That’s even better.
JLM, are you saying that Protestant churches can’t lead to salvation? I certainly never said that.
No, you may not have, but the Vatican did!
“The Vatican issued a document ratified and confirmed by Pope Benedict reasserting that the Roman Catholic Church is the only “true” church and that other denominations do not hold “the means to salvation.”
I’m not sure if this one holds true or not to the Catholic Church anymore, but here goes:
“With faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this (Church) outside which there is no salvation nor remission of sin . . . Furthermore, we declare, say, define and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Denzinger 468-69)
But, I’ll have to agree with you that I do hope they repent, too!!!!
No one is justifying sin. But while judgment of sin itself is unavoidable, the judgment of sinners should be left to God, not us mere mortals.
JLM, will you please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please STOP BELIEVING EVERY RIDICULOUS, STUPID, INSANE THING YOU READ ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THE INTERNET. PLEASE.
JLM, the Vatican document to which you are referring is called “Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church”. NOWHERE in this document does it say that non-Catholic Churches do not have the “means to salvation”.
Nope, that quote came from an earlier document, called “Dominus Iesus”. That document was written by then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and approved by Pope John Paul II. And it wasn’t quoted in full, or even correctly. Here is the full quote which contains the phrase, which was actually “means of salvation”, not “means to salvation”:
“The Christian faithful are therefore not permitted to imagine that the Church of Christ is nothing more than a collection
Why is Nancy Brinker on the tarmack? I’d like to be on the tarmack!
Is she still on the Komen Board?