(Prolifer)ations 4/11/08
by Jivin J
Laurean has been on the lam since January, after investigators say they found the charred remains of Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach and her unborn baby buried in Laurean’s back yard. Lauterbach, who was eight months pregnant, disappeared in December 2007. The discovery of her remains prompted authorities to file murder charges against Laurean.
A CNN Money article mentions, “The FDA seems to be more concerned with the stem cells’ possible side effect of producing tumors. Because of the ‘potential risks’ of human embryonic stem cell products, data showing a drug’s effectiveness ‘may need to be particularly strong,’ the document said.”
2007, whereas before they could only work on embryonic stem cell lines created before January 1, 2002.
Alex Kindell, the president of the pro-choice group at Northern Kentucky University claims the Genocide Awareness Project’s public display of aborted children ispromoting hate and violence:
“This isn’t promoting free speech,” she said. “They’re promoting hate. They’re promoting violence.”
So showing images of violence against unborn children in an attempt to stop this violence is somehow promoting violence?
For those of you who might remember, NKU is the place where
now-former professor Sally Jacobsen and her students destroyed a pro-life display of crosses.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Genocide Awareness Project
Heh – not genocide in the first place.
Yes, Jill, that’s the new-speak version of what “causes violence”…… opposing violence against unborn babies is “violent”, but destroying a peaceful display on campus in “not violent”. We need a playbook to keep up with all this stuff…..
Pro-lifers promote “hate” and “violence”??
Now, that’s a good one…
Now, let me see…it’s the moms and pops who ‘hate’ the product of THEIR sexual action enough to kill the baby…and then there’s the actual ‘violent’ killing of the unborn done by the abortionists (if they botch it up, 2 people end up dead)…
How hypocritical can you get?
Doug,
Abortion IS genocide..
from wiki: “a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as “any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group ”
The group? The Global Unborn (does not matter what ethnic, race or religious affiliation) numbering in the Billions.
Trying to pretend that abortion is ‘genocide’ is a lie. Trying to pretend that ‘unborn’ is somehow ‘a group’ is ridiculous. Trying to hide behind this kind of melodramatic hysteria continues to make antichoicers look ridiculous too.
Pro-lifers promote “hate” and “violence”??
Now, that’s a good one…
Now, let me see…it’s the moms and pops who ‘hate’ the product of THEIR sexual action enough to kill the baby…and then there’s the actual ‘violent’ killing of the unborn done by the abortionists (if they botch it up, 2 people end up dead)…
How hypocritical can you get?
Posted by: RSD at April 11, 2008 10:12 AM
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Look in the mirror. Your own hypocricy is showing. Trying to pretend that ‘parents’ must ‘hate’ mindless insensate nonviable oblivious tissue is dishonest. Insisting that oblivious nonviable tissue is ‘a baby’ is hysterical melodramatics. Trying to pretend the removal of oblivious nonviable tissue is ‘violent’ is dishonest. No one on the pro choice side has ever killed someone for being antichoice. There is a whole long list of people who have been killed for being pro choice, who have been attacked for being pro choice, who have been harassed for being pro choice, and a whole long list of places which have been vandalized in the name of the antichoice agenda.
So showing images of violence against unborn children in an attempt to stop this violence is somehow promoting violence?
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Yes, because those pictures are not honest and you know it.
TR,
A group of kids is a group, a group of adults is a group…a group of babies is a group…a group of UNBORN babies is also a group…How else would you define a group?
“melodramtaic Hysteria” or the TRUTH (unless you are in denial of what’s happening inside abortion mills).
And you’re right, the parents don’t HATE their unborn babies… they just love themselves more than their offspring.
Also..abortion is NOT violent? Why don’t YOU look at yourself in the mirror and say that? Ooops, my mistake, you probably do that everyday just to make yourself feel good about your pro-abortion commitments.
Those pictures are the TRUTH…everybody knows it. Only those in denial won’t accept it as truth.
TR,
A group of kids is a group, a group of adults is a group…a group of babies is a group…a group of UNBORN babies is also a group…How else would you define a group? (‘unborn’ isnt a ‘group’ – youre looking idiotic)
“melodramtaic Hysteria” or the TRUTH (unless you are in denial of what’s happening inside abortion mills).(back to the antichoice whimper that anyone who doesnt agree is just “in denial” – ‘abortion mill’ is one more example of dishonest melodramatic hysteria too)
And you’re right, the parents don’t HATE their unborn babies… they just love themselves more than their offspring.(mindless nonviable tissue isnt an ‘offspring’ and youre back to your holier than thou know it all judgmental delusions that you ‘know everything’ about total strangers and they just arent as “good” as you are)
Also..abortion is NOT violent? Why don’t YOU look at yourself in the mirror and say that? Ooops, my mistake, you probably do that everyday just to make yourself feel good about your pro-abortion commitments. (since Im not pro abortion thats one more ignorant lie from you and no, a typical abortion isnt ‘violent’)
Those pictures are the TRUTH…everybody knows it. Only those in denial won’t accept it as truth.
Posted by: RSD at April 11, 2008 11:01 AM
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Those pictures arent honest and arent ‘the truth about abortion’ and anyone with any intelligence knows they arent and knows why they arent and will admit why they arent. The truth about abortion is over 60% are performed by 8 weeks, over 90% are performed in the first trimester and about 96% are performed by RU486 or suction curettage. The results of a typical abortion on a sanitary napkin wont look much different from ordinary menstrual flow. Taking a picture of a 18 week old fetus when you dont even know where it came from, when it was taken, or who took it, enlarging it 100 times, and trying to pretend its ‘the truth about abortion’ is one more antichoice lie.
TR,
The TRUTH about abortion is that unborn babies are killed in a very violent and un-natural manner…it does not matter at what age they are killed.
Maybe if there are people like Zeke out there saying we should put post abortive mothers to death. I think they are just hurting their cause, honestly, so I don’t have a problem with this.
Hopefully I’ll find a nice Church barbeque to put up my PETA display. I wish I could get a video player or something, so they could see their meat being sluaghtered and hear it screaming. That should change a few minds.
Jess:
If they can do it, so can you!
Yay!
TR,
The TRUTH about abortion is that unborn babies are killed in a very violent and un-natural manner…it does not matter at what age they are killed.
Posted by: RSD at April 11, 2008 11:40 AM
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No, thats your OPINION. I dont agree you can intelligently or rationally call mindless insensate nonviable oblivious tissue a *baby* and I dont agree that the removal of oblivious tissue from the uterus of a woman who does not want it there can intelligently or rationally be described as ‘violent’.
If the results of a typical abortion don’t look much different than a menstrual flow then explain why someone has the job of counting hands, arms, legs, feet, ribcages and head in the mills. Someone has to make sure all of the baby parts are out, am I right??
Please continue TR.
Maybe if there are people like Zeke out there saying we should put post abortive mothers to death. I think they are just hurting their cause, honestly, so I don’t have a problem with this.
Posted by: Jess at April 11, 2008 11:49 AM
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I tend to agree. Ive heard more than a few antichoicers say that even if they are against abortion they still think its unwise to plaster huge exaggerated pictures in public places. If antichoicers want to shoot themselves in the foot then far be it from me to stop them.
If the results of a typical abortion don’t look much different than a menstrual flow then explain why someone has the job of counting hands, arms, legs, feet, ribcages and head in the mills. Someone has to make sure all of the baby parts are out, am I right??
Please continue TR.
Posted by: Carla at April 11, 2008 12:28 PM
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Where did you hear anyone ‘had’ that job or that ‘job’ existed? I mean a credible source for the information? By the way, its a fetus, not a baby. And those pictures are of the 4% or 5% of abortions not performed by suction curettage or RU486. And no, youre not ‘right’.
That whole Lauterbach / Laurean story was bizarre. She accused him of rape but other people insisted their relationship was ‘cordial’? and no one had ‘any reason’ to think he might want to harm her even though he had supposedly raped her? Military intelligence – now THATS an oxymoron.
Hi again, TR. How are you?
Um…everything I have read from former mill workers. Someone has to put the baby parts together to make sure that all of the baby is out. Otherwise the woman could die of infection from her safe, legal abortion.
Just because I don’t “cite unbiased sources” every time I comment doesn’t mean I don’t have valid things to say. But if I put a percent on here then can we talk? Ok. 32%
TexasRed, the military is desperately trying to cover up rapes and sexual assaults in the military.
Raped and Silenced in the Barracks. It’s a really tragic article.
That same year, the results of a study conducted by Dr. Anne Sadler of the Iowa City VA Medical Center found 28 percent of female veterans having suffered MST while on active duty.
….
A 2004 survey of U.S. service members conducted by the Pentagon
MST is military sexual trauma, btw.
“No, thats your OPINION. I dont agree you can intelligently or rationally call mindless insensate nonviable oblivious tissue a *baby*”
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Only you and the rest of your liberal folk can call a developing baby a “mindless, insensate, nonviable, oblivious tissue”.
I can just hear your conversations:
Q:How’s your “mindless, insensate, nonviable, oblivious tissue”?
A: Oh, I’m gonna have it removed Friday…
“.. and I dont agree that the removal of oblivious tissue from the uterus of a woman who does not want it there can intelligently or rationally be described as ‘violent'”
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Now, that’s YOUR opinion…
Um…everything I have read from former mill workers. Someone has to put the baby parts together to make sure that all of the baby is out. Otherwise the woman could die of infection from her safe, legal abortion.
Just because I don’t “cite unbiased sources” every time I comment doesn’t mean I don’t have valid things to say. But if I put a percent on here then can we talk? Ok. 32%
Posted by: Carla at April 11, 2008 12:48 PM
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As I said, do you have a credible source for your ‘information’? Because it doesnt look like you do. And 32% of what?
Jess,11:51: Hopefully I’ll find a nice Church barbeque to put up my PETA display. I wish I could get a video player or something, so they could see their meat being sluaghtered and hear it screaming. That should change a few minds.
It really bothers me when pro-choicers try to equate killing animals with killing babies, because they aren’t the same; no matter how much you love animals, a baby is a zillion times more valuable.
Wow, I’m absolutely amazed at the denial here. We are FAKING the pictures of aborted babies…why?? Because we make so much money for doing it? Because it will make us so popular amongst celebrity culture? Texas Red, you need to see a psychologist, and soon. I do mean that sincerely. Mindless and insensate? Oblivious? Sounds like you’re describing the pro-choice movement here.
And this: “This isn’t promoting free speech,” she said. “They’re promoting hate. They’re promoting violence.”
So showing images of violence against unborn children in an attempt to stop this violence is somehow promoting violence?”
Hahahahaha. Unbelievable. That must mean that showing pictures of the Nazi slaughters would be promoting violence. Golly, I guess they’re promoting violence in museums now, and at the Holocaust memorial, too.
Facing the truth is the first step to getting HELP. Calling unborn children mindless and oblivious may make you feel better, but it’s just not true, and I believe you know better…somewhere, deep inside you.
TexasRed, the military is desperately trying to cover up rapes and sexual assaults in the military.
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Youre right. And they’ve been doing it that I know of since I was commissioned in 74. I had one Captain who just didnt know how to behave. I finally told him that he could either keep his hand off me because he chose to or because it was going to be in a cast – his choice. Fortunately I didnt have to break his wrist. I didnt have any more trouble from him or from anyone else. But a whole lot of women I knew werent that forceful and werent that lucky. NPR had a story yesterday about a woman who was a civilian employee of KBR – she was drugged, raped and brutalized by two men – one was military. She wasnt taken seriously – she was threatened – intimidated – the same thing happens to women in the military who are subjected to that kind of attack. The military just wants to keep it quiet and sweep it under the rug.
It really bothers me when pro-choicers try to equate killing animals with killing babies, because they aren’t the same; no matter how much you love animals, a baby is a zillion times more valuable.
Posted by: Janet at April 11, 2008 1:17 PM
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What baby?
“.. and I dont agree that the removal of oblivious tissue from the uterus of a woman who does not want it there can intelligently or rationally be described as ‘violent'”
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Now, that’s YOUR opinion…
Posted by: RSD at April 11, 2008 1:05 PM
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Of course it is. What else would it be?
Facing the truth is the first step to getting HELP. Calling unborn children mindless and oblivious may make you feel better, but it’s just not true, and I believe you know better…somewhere, deep inside you.
Posted by: Kel at April 11, 2008 1:20 PM
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Youre the one who cant come to terms with the truth. Whining that ‘you know better …somewhere deep inside you’ just makes you look like youre in denial and not terribly intelligent either. Refusing to face facts about fetal development doesnt change those facts. Refusing to face the fact that an embryo / fetus in a typical abortion is mindless, insensate, nonviable and oblivious makes you look poorly educated, in denial, and unable to deal with the truth.
Only you and the rest of your liberal folk can call a developing baby a “mindless, insensate, nonviable, oblivious tissue”.
I can just hear your conversations:
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Its called reality. And I do wonder if a whole lot you ‘hear’ isnt a product of your own bizarre imagination and simple little mind.
Wow, I’m absolutely amazed at the denial here. We are FAKING the pictures of aborted babies…why?? Because we make so much money for doing it? Because it will make us so popular amongst celebrity culture? Texas Red, you need to see a psychologist, and soon. I do mean that sincerely. Mindless and insensate? Oblivious? Sounds like you’re describing the pro-choice movement here.
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Kel, it looks like you are making a concerted effort to just look stupid. And youre doing a very good job of it.
“no matter how much you love animals, a baby is a zillion times more valuable.”
I believe animals and humans have the same worth. We bled, we feel fear, we feel pain, we love. I believe animals have souls the same as people. You have obviously never had an animal love you. They are very smart, I’m sure they know how you really feel about them.
It really bothers me when pro-choicers try to equate killing animals with killing babies, because they aren’t the same; no matter how much you love animals, a baby is a zillion times more valuable.
What gives it value? That it’s human? That it’s alive? That it can talk?
Probably that it’s human. Like slave traders who told themselves Africans were only animals, so it was ok to torture and kill them.
If you think the Bible say’s it’s ok:
Dominion is not the same as tyranny. The Queen of England has
Jill –
Did Sally Jacobsen get fired for what she did to the display? I don’t remember hearing about her leaving.
But who is to say that other animals, like cats for example, aren’t telling their kittens, “Don’t worry if your pet human dies, you are a zillion times more valuable than they are.” ???
Don’t we just make our own species the most valuable, the most superior, because we are that species so therefore we think we are???
“..Its called reality. And I do wonder if a whole lot you ‘hear’ isnt a product of your own bizarre imagination and simple little mind. ”
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And WE are the ones living in an “imaginary” world? TR always makes me laugh…
Posted by: Jess at April 11, 2008 2:01 PM
It amazes me that you posted that but are “pro-choice.”
RSD,
TR makes me laugh too.
“The Bible imparts a reverence for life, and a loving God could not help but be appalled by the way that animals are treated today.”
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Amen, Jess. Imagine, too, what the Lord is thinking when we kill unborn humans, who are created in His image and likeness.
“..Its called reality. And I do wonder if a whole lot you ‘hear’ isnt a product of your own bizarre imagination and simple little mind. ”
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And WE are the ones living in an “imaginary” world? TR always makes me laugh…
Posted by: RSD at April 11, 2008 2:44 PM
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Laughter without cause can be an indication of mental illness. You might have that checked out … they might be able to help you with your apparent auditory hallucinations as well
“no matter how much you love animals, a baby is a zillion times more valuable.”
I believe animals and humans have the same worth. We bled, we feel fear, we feel pain, we love. I believe animals have souls the same as people. You have obviously never had an animal love you. They are very smart, I’m sure they know how you really feel about them.
Posted by: Jess at April 11, 2008 1:51 PM\
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If I had to choose between saving a puppy and saving a child Id save the child. If I had to choose between saving a puppy and saving a petrie dish with six fertilized eggs in it, Id save the puppy. Antichoicers would have us believe that a fertilized egg is ‘just the same’ as a child. Its not.
Amen, Jess. Imagine, too, what the Lord is thinking when we kill unborn humans, who are created in His image and likeness.
Posted by: RSD at April 11, 2008 3:11 PM
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So why dont you give us all the book, chapter and verse – old testament or new – where god made his position clear on that – his position, or the position of the men who wrote the bible – and where abortion is condemned and the punishments are listed for people who have abortions and people who perform abortions. There are verses which detail what to do with feces. There are verses which detail what a man is supposed to do after a wet dream. Those matters are important enough to mention and detailed instructions are written out. Abortion wasnt even that important. Thats fact, not opinion whether you like it or not. And the bible DOES make clear that the value of even a wanted fetus is NOT equal to that of a person. Causing a woman to abort a supposedly wanted fetus only results in the punishment of paying a fine.
RSD,
TR makes me laugh too.
Posted by: Carla at April 11, 2008 2:53 PM
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Faux laughter doesnt fool anyone
No faux.
TR: If I had to choose between saving a puppy and saving a child Id save the child.
Thank you for admitting that a human has more worth than a puppy.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
It really bothers me when pro-choicers try to equate killing animals with killing babies, because they aren’t the same; no matter how much you love animals, a baby is a zillion times more valuable.
Edyt: 1:51: What gives it value? That it’s human? That it’s alive? That it can talk?
Jess: Probably that it’s human. Like slave traders who told themselves Africans were only animals, so it was ok to torture and kill them.
No, it’s not like that, Jess, because I’m not saying humans are like animals, you are, and I’m not saying we should torture and kill humans. You have it backwards.
Jess:If we have dominion over animals, surely it is to protect them, not to use them for our own ends. There is nothing in the Bible that would justify our modern-day practices, which desecrate the environment, destroy entire species of wildlife, and inflict torment and death on billions of animals every year. The Bible imparts a reverence for life, and a loving God could not help but be appalled by the way that animals are treated today.
http://www.peta.org/about/faq.asp
I don’t mean to be crass, but if God meant for us to be best friends with animals, don’t you think they’d be able to talk to us, a la Doctor Dolittle? Some societies have no other available food source other than animals. Would you have had these people all starve to death 5,000 years ago?
You have obviously never had an animal love you. They are very smart, I’m sure they know how you really feel about them.
I think the biggest emotion they sense in a human is fear. I try to let an animal I don’t know know that I don’t fear it so I don’t get bit. Other than that I don’t care what an animal thinks of me.
I’m positive an aborted baby knows how the aborter really feels about them. That’s what’s really sick.
What makes you so sure? I don’t recall hearing about any studies of the sort.
Even studies on the unborn, on pain sensation, on the ABC link wouldn’t be enough to convince the anti-life crowd. Now would it? No, because MY rights are more important than anything else. If we were discussing the embryos of some sort of animal here, I think it’d be another story. If we were to abort cats before they were born, the outcry would be ENORMOUS. And no, I am not against those who wish to save animals.
TR, I don’t whine. Now I believe YOU are the one hearing things.
The hurling of insults at me must mean that you cannot carry on a civil conversation so you have to resort to calling me stupid. Whatever it takes to make you feel okay with yourself. Have at it.
What I really find unbelievable is this: no matter what facts we might present to the anti-lifers, you refuse to believe in the humanity of the unborn even when it’s staring you in the face. Even a child knows that the picture of an aborted baby is a BABY.
Edyt:
I assume you are addressing me… If you are talking about aborted babies, I think they know they’ve been rejected One moment that are connected to their mother and the next moment she’s gone. In my opinion, they forgive their mothers who express sorrow for having aborted them and are praying for them from heaven. No studies, of course, I feel that in my heart. I don’t expect everyone else to feel the same way, obviously.
Edyt: Correction. (Sorry, it’s late.) It should read:
“….they know they’ve been rejected.(period) One moment they are connected…
Jess,
If you think the Bible say’s it’s ok:
Dominion is not the same as tyranny. The Queen of England has
Jess,
I’m sorry, I gotta agree with MK here. If animals have the same rights as humans, then what you said should apply to them as well.
I’m positive an aborted baby knows how the aborter really feels about them. That’s what’s really sick.
Posted by: Janet at April 11, 2008 6:29 PM
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Would you like to explain how you fantasize it would “know”? Because your fantasies and your bizarre fabrications are all youre working with here. Just how could something with only a functional brain stem “know” anything? Thats one of the most moronic comments Ive heard an antichocier make and Ive heard some spectacularly stupid remarks.
TR, I don’t whine. Now I believe YOU are the one hearing things.
The hurling of insults at me must mean that you cannot carry on a civil conversation so you have to resort to calling me stupid. Whatever it takes to make you feel okay with yourself. Have at it.(you need to make up lies to feel better about your ignorant statements – why is that?)
What I really find unbelievable is this: no matter what facts we might present to the anti-lifers, you refuse to believe in the humanity of the unborn even when it’s staring you in the face. Even a child knows that the picture of an aborted baby is a BABY. (there are no ‘antilifers’ – thats one more lie from the antichoice side – and anyone with any intelligence knows how dishonest the antichoice pictures typically are and knows the difference between a baby and a fetus)
Posted by: Kel at April 11, 2008 10:19 PM
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Kel Im not the one responsible for the ignorance or idiocy of your inventions and fabrications.
RSD: Doug, Abortion IS genocide..
from wiki: “a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as “any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group “
RSD, if you want to go with legal definitions, fine and dandy – abortion is legal in the US and thank goodness – it is better that women have the freedoms they do, rather than those who want to tell them what to do in the matter of continuing pregnancies or not have their way.
In the US, the majority of pregnancies are already willingly continued, so there’s no “intent to kill all the unborn,” wipe them out as a group, etc. Being for women’s legal right to make their own best choice isn’t anything like that.
A given woman may want to end a pregnancy, but do you really think it’s in order to “wipe out the human race,” etc? Heck – of course that doesn’t play a part. If you see a serious danger of no pregnancies being continued due to the presence of legal abortion, then let’s hear your case.
The reality is that more babies are being born on earth than at almost any other time in history. This too is due to the individual decisions of people – it’s hardly the case that people are choosing to continue or to end pregnancies based on all the unborn as a group.
TexsRed: If I had to choose between saving a puppy and saving a child I’d save the child. If I had to choose between saving a puppy and saving a petrie dish with six fertilized eggs in it, I’d save the puppy. Antichoicers would have us believe that a fertilized egg is ‘just the same’ as a child. Its not.
Well said, Iva.
PIP: Jess, I’m sorry, I gotta agree with MK here. If animals have the same rights as humans, then what you said should apply to them as well.
I imagine that Jess sees the difference between the unborn and the born for animals as well as for people.
It’s very silly to equate induced abortion with genocide. The differences are too obvious to begin listing.
TR said: “Kel Im not the one responsible for the ignorance or idiocy of your inventions and fabrications.”
No, you would be responsible for your own actions and your own disregard for human life. I’ve not invented any pictures of abortions, nor have I fabricated anything.
And you would rather slander the pro-life side by saying that we “fabricate” all these pictures of abortions,etc, ad nauseum…would rather deny the humanity of that which is in front of your very eyes than acknowledge that a human life has been taken. I would say that makes you anti-life.
Hey, if you want to believe that what comes out of a womb during a late-term abortion looks like nothing resembling a child, that’s your decision. Any 3-D ultrasound before the fact would prove you wrong. I just don’t see how anything has been fabricated here. What do pro-lifers stand to gain by fabricating photographs of aborted babies, and what lies did I make up?
Doug,
I wasn’t defining the legality of abortion…I was using the WIKI definition of what Genocide is: “…acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part..”.
Whether legal or not, abortion (at today’s rate)
IS already Genocide.
RSD, taking something from Wikipedia, which contradicts other definitions in this case, isn’t proof of much at all.
A woman’s choice is an individual deal, not necessarily related to the unborn as a group, in the first place.
How many women do you really think are saying,”I’m going to have an abortion because I want to destroy the unborn as a group”?