22 Weeks screenings
UPDATE, 10/28, 7:40a: WorldNetDaily.com has more info on 22 Weeks, including the fact a screening before Congress is planned January 22, 2009, the 36th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision.
_______________
I began writing about the death of Baby Rowan soon after it happened in 2005, having received a call from his distraught mother, who had an instant change of heart when seeing her baby.
He was aborted in an Orlando, FL, abortion clinic toilet and survived for several minutes. The Born Alive Infants Protection Act should have protected him but didn’t. State and federal prosecutors failed him. Clinic workers went so far as to turn away EMTs at the mill door who the mother had called to help her baby.
Now a short movie has been made of that tragedy, 22 Weeks. Here’s the trailer…
I’ve previewed 22 Weeks. It is excellently directed and acted and is a devastating story to watch, particularly when knowing it really happened.
22 Weeks will be screened twice in the coming days…
October 28: East Coast screening
Regent University
1000 Regent University Dr
Virginia Beach, VA 23464
1st screening: 7 PM
2nd screening: 9 PM
Cost: Free. Ticket are required – Contact the Regent U box office.
October 31: West Coast screening
Ken Cinema
4061 Adams Avenue
San Diego, CA 92116
(1 day before TheCall, 1 mile from Qualcomm Stadium)
3 PM (Seating is limited to 400 – come early)
Cost: Free. Love offering will be received.
To request a screening in your city, go to www.22weeksthemovie.com and/or call 787-461-9006.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
This movie trailer is chilling. A must-see for anyone who calls them self pro-choice.
It’s chilling because it’s true.
Open your eyes, open your hearts.
Barack Obama is a monster.
“The Born Alive Infants Protection Act should have protected him but didn’t.”
So. the law wasn’t all it was cracked up to be.
Gee Hal, you don’t even upset me with comments like that anymore. You just disgust me.
Kristen, for months and months I’ve been reading here how evil Obama is because he didn’t support that law. Now we find out the law isn’t very effective. I’m sorry, but I feel compelled to point out that all those posts now seem rather extreme.
Really Hal?
Apple Doesn’t Fall Far from the Anti-Family Tree
With one week to shore up support for Proposition 8, our friends in California got a much-needed boost from best-selling author and pastor Rick Warren. Nationally known for his book The Purpose Driven Life, the popular founder of Saddleback Church announced his unequivocal support for traditional marriage in a video message to supporters. In it he says, “We support Proposition 8. And if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. …[T]he universal, historic definition of marriage [is] one man and one woman, for life. And every culture for 5,000 years and every religion for 5,000 years has said the definition of marriage is between one man and a woman. …This is not even just a Christian issue, it is a humanitarian and human issue, that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love and procreation. I urge you to support Proposition 8 and to pass that on.” Not to be outdone, same-sex “marriage” advocates celebrated their new alliance with Silicon Valley last week. Technology heavyweights Apple and Google are among the many hopping on the corporate bandwagon to defeat the marriage amendment. Living up to its rainbow logo, Apple joined jean giant Levi Strauss, which already donated $25,000 to the opposition. Mac and iPod lovers will be disappointed to learn that Apple actually quadrupled Levi’s gift with a $100,000 check to the “No on Prop 8” campaign last Friday. In the final stretch, every dollar matters. Please log on to http://www.protectmarriage.com to view the group’s latest ad warning voters how counterfeit marriage endangers parents’ rights. And for more on how California’s amendment could change the complexion of marriage across America, check out my quotes in today’s New York Times piece, “A Line in the Sand for Same-Sex Marriage Foes.”
To: Shadegg Friends
From: John Shadegg
Last night, I was on the air discussing the presidential race and I commented that, “much of what is being done right now is being done to demoralize conservatives from the mainstream media and to convince them this race is over.”
“Public opinion samplings that attempt to predict the winner in an election contest are utterly useless to a candidate and an unnecessary waste of money.” At least that’s what my dad Steve Shadegg said 40 years ago.
I still agree.
The McCain – Palin race, our race, in fact, no close race is over until the polls close on Election Day. And, I believe in the end, Senator McCain will win and so will many of the Republicans the mainstream media is working overtime to convince you have already lost.
Don’t get discouraged. Barack Obama does not have a tremendous lead over John McCain in the presidential race. It’s important to remember that far more polls are wrong than right. Had they been right in 1980, Carter would’ve had a second term and Reagan would’ve stayed in California. If they were correct in 2000 and 2004, Bush never would’ve been in the White House.
An AP poll conducted from 10/18 to 10/20, 2004 showed John Kerry leading George W. Bush by 3 percentage points. Even a FOX News poll conducted from 10/30 to 10/31 in 2004 showed Kerry up by 2 points.
I realize this isn’t 2004, but the key to any major political contest has always and will always be timing. The last two weeks of an election are the most critical, and that’s why John McCain, Sarah Palin, and every Republican need your help in the final push. Acceleration is crucial. It doesn’t really matter where a candidate stands in the arena of public opinion at the beginning or the middle of a campaign. What matter s is that your candidate gains new supporters every day.
The last few years have been rough for us all. Many of you have told me that it’s hard to be motivated this election cycle, but you have to be! The stakes are simply too great! Get to work! Talk to your friends. Send e-mails, put bumper stickers on your car, your kids’ cars, your friends’ cars; we have plenty! Put a yard sign in your yard, in your family member’s yard, in your friend’s yard. Work our phone bank or one for McCain-Palin.
It’s not going to be a walk in the park we have a major fight on our hands. But if we work non-stop from now to election day, we CAN and we will win this election.
Don’t let the media or anyone else convince you otherwise.
“Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, neverin nothing, great or small, large or pettynever give in” – Winston Churchill
Where can I watch the whole movie after it comes out? There’s no way I could ever get to either of those locations.
Hal’s right. The BAIPA act turned out to be a dud in practice, because nobody cares enough to enforce it.
God willing that will change with Palin in Washington.
HisMan, I understand you views on Abortion. Don’t agree, but understand. I don’t think I’ll ever understand your opposition to gay rights.
Hal, I think you are correct. I think this clearly demonstrates the fig-leaf/symbolic nature of BAIPA. The fact is for most of these induced labor abortions, even if the fetus/baby is still alive at the point of delivery, the likelihood of its survival is slim to none. And this is not because the fetus/baby isn’t being “saved” by the doctor, it is because the fetus/baby isn’t viable.
If you dig through the “sources” on this story (mostly Stanek, WND, and other anti-abortion sites), you will find no legitimate news sources reporting on this story. What you will find is that despite the woman’s tale to Stanek, the medical examiner found no indication that air ever entered Rowan’s lungs.
BAIPA’s purpose isn’t to “save babies”. BAIPA’s purpose is to put pressure on both women and doctors to avoid late-term abortion. Doctors would be more likely to avoid it, because (at least the IL version) had as part of the trio of bills, a provision for serious liability for any doctor who failed to “save” an pre-viable fetus. Women would be more likely to avoid late-term abortion because doctors would be less likely to provide them for fear of lawsuits.
Anyway, as a related aside, it seems as though the real reason that the Obama/BAIPA smear can’t gain any traction on a national level is that people recognize that the bill was about chipping away at abortion rights, and not about “saving babies”.
“The Born Alive Infants Protection Act should have protected him but didn’t.”
So. the law wasn’t all it was cracked up to be.
Posted by: Hal at October 27, 2008 6:46 PM
easy enough for you to say, you didn’t die. :-P
easy enough for you to say, you didn’t die. :-P
Posted by: Patricia at October 27, 2008 7:35 PM
Can you point to any life that was saved because of the Act? Even one?
Rae,
we can’t understand that, what does it say?
@Jasper: Amanda told you, but somebody deleted it.
Yay! It lasted 25 minutes!
Kristen, for months and months I’ve been reading here how evil Obama is because he didn’t support that law. Now we find out the law isn’t very effective. I’m sorry, but I feel compelled to point out that all those posts now seem rather extreme.
Posted by: Hal at October 27, 2008 7:06 PM
____________________and this too…………
Can you point to any life that was saved because of the Act? Even one?
Posted by: Hal at October 27, 2008 7:51 PM
_____________________
There are many ineffective laws Hal. That doesn’t mean we don’t fight evil. There are laws against robbery and murder but people still steal and destroy. In your Hal-loves-Obama world should we legalize murder and stealing? Oh, sorry, Obama’s already for the murder of innocent children in the womb and already born but condemned babies. He’s the ultimate racist. He’s a racist against a whole class of babies who just because they were concieved but not wanted are deemed unworthy of life. And you can’t see how evil this is you excuse for a man.
Just think Hal, if abortion weren’t legal you’d have 4 kids and not just 2. You have brought violence upon your family Hal and you will receive what you deserve.
Oh don’t tell me, you would have broken the law had abortion been illegal because you were damned and determined to kill off your first 2 kids? Why do we even give you the time of day?
And no Hal, you have no idea how I feel about abortion, you have no idea how passionate I am against it. You have no idea how disgusted males make me that not only don’t take resposnibility for the kids they fathered but rather seek to slaughter their offspring. You had the power to change your wife’s mind Hal and instead you were a wuss, a freaking wuss, a coward, a lame excuse for the leader in your home.
As for gay rights…….you mean the right to be perverted and take as many people to hell with you as possible? Yep, I’m against those rights, you bet.
You know what Hal, if you were my son, and you did that do my grandkids, I’d kick your ass and give you a beating you’d never forget and you’d be begging that God would have mercy on you.
Of course Hal, that would never happen because my sons were all brought up to fear God and they would never even think of being such a pervert wimp.
Saying that BAIPA shouldn’t be passed because someone got around it is like saying that murder should be legalized because OJ Simpson got away with it.
The person who deleted mine has no idea what I wrote do they? I know exactly what Amanda and Rae wrote, and if you had any type of critical thinking skills you would know too. And if you did know you wouldn’t have deleted it.
Jess, Rae,
Please use english so we can understand it.
Jess:
Rae:
Studying Arabic – ready to become dhimmi’s?
@Jasper: There are multitudes of free translation programs on the internet that you have at your disposal.
What’s with the Bird?
@Chris: That’s about right, the tricky thing with online translators is that they tend to not translate meaning- just words. It’s supposed to say something along the lines of “protecting life, God willing John McCain will win the election in 8 days”.
^_^
It was from a pro-life Arabic pro-McCain website.
isn’t the born alive infant protection act for comfort care and not an actual “anti abortion bill”– That was my understanding…but it gets so misunderstood…
Correct me if I am wrong.. just clarifying..
“Studying Arabic – ready to become dhimmi’s?”
You mean they aren’t already?
Lol Chris you WON! You can pick up your prize at your local post office!
@Chris: Actually, I’ll suck it up and deal with my execution due to refusing to convert to Islam.
Anyway…I still think Arabic is a pretty language, just like I think Marathi and Russian are pretty languages too.
I was teasing them John.
Oooh Rae Russia is such a striking country, majestic landscapes and an intense and ancient culture. We should go! Road trip!
@Chris: No you weren’t.
Wow, now gay people are perverted wimps? Or were you just calling Hal that because of abortion? I am confused, but either way you called homosexuals perverts.
HisMan, your ignorance is ASTOUNDING.
I kind of can’t wait to get to heaven and meet all the fabulous gays there. It will be a lovely day I believe. :)
Hal, I think you are correct. I think this clearly demonstrates the fig-leaf/symbolic nature of BAIPA. The fact is for most of these induced labor abortions, even if the fetus/baby is still alive at the point of delivery, the likelihood of its survival is slim to none. And this is not because the fetus/baby isn’t being “saved” by the doctor, it is because the fetus/baby isn’t viable.
If you dig through the “sources” on this story (mostly Stanek, WND, and other anti-abortion sites), you will find no legitimate news sources reporting on this story. What you will find is that despite the woman’s tale to Stanek, the medical examiner found no indication that air ever entered Rowan’s lungs.
BAIPA’s purpose isn’t to “save babies”. BAIPA’s purpose is to put pressure on both women and doctors to avoid late-term abortion. Doctors would be more likely to avoid it, because (at least the IL version) had as part of the trio of bills, a provision for serious liability for any doctor who failed to “save” an pre-viable fetus. Women would be more likely to avoid late-term abortion because doctors would be less likely to provide them for fear of lawsuits.
Anyway, as a related aside, it seems as though the real reason that the Obama/BAIPA smear can’t gain any traction on a national level is that people recognize that the bill was about chipping away at abortion rights, and not about “saving babies”.
Posted by: what does BAIPA actually do at October 27, 2008 7:19 PM
…………………………………………………….
This is exactly the case. Jill and her supporters wish abortion to be illegal and damn the consequences. Any and all consequences would conveniently and irresponsibly blamed upon ‘satan possessed’ political liberals.
But Chris, what’s going to happen when Obama-ism clashes with hardcome Islam? Muslims aren’t as stupid as we Christians; they know that Obama is not Mohammed, and they’re going to be ticked off that people are worshipping him.
Hi Rita,
HisMan cares for the unborn. The unborn that die everyday because of abortion. He speaks for himself, not for Jill or anyone else here. I think in time if you read long enough you would find quite a few people that CARE. A LOT.
If you are looking to get informed about what is going on in the war against abortion, there is no better place to be than here. Welcome.
You might want to take what you can from some commenters and leave the rest. :)
On February 27, 2007, Barack Obama was interviewed by The New York Times, in which he said the Muslim call to prayer is “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth.” He then recited it “with a first-class [Arabic] accent,” according to The Times.
The opening lines of this prayer:
“Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
So Sally… the terrible consequence of BAIPA is that… sometimes…. corrupt government officials don’t prosecute someone for violating the BAIPA. OK!!!
Hal,
Can you point to any life that was saved because of the Act? Even one?
BAIPA protects a baby born alive after a “botched abortion”. How many abortionists are going to report that they’ve botched an abortion? None. His job is killing babies so if he reported it he might jeopardize his job, don’t you think?
@Jasper: …point?
Rae, the point is that everyone knows that Obama is supreme, not Allah. Obama committed blasphemy against himself in reciting that prayer.
@John: Cleeeeeeever. Not.
Oh, I’m just mentioning it Rae.
You can decide for yourself what to make of it.
@Jasper: Gotcha.
Anyway…gooooooo Nader!
*fistpump*
BTW, a week or two ago, an Obama supporter in Philadelphia called for Sarah Palin to be stoned to death. Now another suggests that she should be hanged:
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/27/can-you-imagine-if-an-obama-effigy-were-hung-from-a-noose/
What’s next? The threat of genital mutilation?
Rae at October 27, 2008 9:00 PM
I wasn’t teasing you? Really?
@Chris: Actually, I’ll suck it up and deal with my execution due to refusing to convert to Islam.
Actually from that response, I can tell you really don’t understand dhimmitude, so how would you know I was teasing you?
We’ve strayed quite a ways from the thread…
I’ve got to leave – time to assist my daughter with school work.
@Chris: I’ve read what you have previously said about Islam and the fact you have friends who are “undercover” missionaries in Islamic countries and that if you reveal what country they are in they will be executed by the Islamist governments in which they are working in. And that’s what would happen here if the Muslims ever became a majority- either convert to Islam or die, I believe was what you said.
So I used the power of cognitive inference to make that assumption. Clearly I misunderstood- so perhaps instead of being condescending about it, you could have just corrected me and pointed out I was in error for what I said.
But I believe Jasper’s real point is that Obama laughably claims to have never been a Muslim, and yet he can perfectly recite a Muslim prayer in an Arabic accent. He was a Muslim, just like his father. Too bad he’s ashamed of his family.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/27/obama.plot/index.html
@John: I would be too if people thought that people who followed said religion were all terrorists.
easy enough for you to say, you didn’t die. :-P
Posted by: Patricia at October 27, 2008 7:35 PM
Can you point to any life that was saved because of the Act? Even one?
Posted by: Hal at October 27, 2008 7:51 PM
as I said Hal, it’s easy to play fast and loose with someone elses life.
Note: all the people in favour of abortion are already born. Interesting, eh?
Neo-Nazi imbeciles caught trying to murder black people, what else is new? I wonder if warrantless wiretaps got ’em? Wouldn’t that be ironic?
And people think all Christians are terrorists, too.
@John: Count me as a person who does NOT think Christians are terrorists.
@Patricia: You can’t have an opinion in utero- lack the cognitive faculties to have an opinion…
So Sally… the terrible consequence of BAIPA is that… sometimes…. corrupt government officials don’t prosecute someone for violating the BAIPA. OK!!!
Posted by: John Lewandowski at October 27, 2008 9:07 PM
………………………………………..
The terrible reality is that you don’t know what you are talking about John. Violate BAIPA exactly how? You can’t even pretend that viable preemies are not provided with medical assistance when available and appropriate. You simply wish for later term abortions to be illegal and damn the consequences.
Sally,
are you willing to trust an abortionist with a premie? when the intent of the abortionist was to kill the premie in the first place?
We are holding our “40 Days for Life” prayer vigil on the sidewalk in front of an abortion clinic here in Sacramento which proudly advertises in the yellow pages and on their website that they offer abortions up to 24 weeks. It is unnerving to see what is happening behind those walls. This movie trailer is absolutely chilling.
Lord, have mercy on us all, as this killing goes on right across the street from a large regional shopping mall, with people busily going about their day, either ignorant of or apathetic to the atrocity within our community.
Just today, we met women who had laminaria inserted, preparing for abortions tomorrow morning. We pray to the Lord~
Please everyone join the nearest “40 Days for Life”, now through Sunday, November 2nd, praying for life and compassionately offering women loving assistance so that they are better able to choose LIFE for their unborn child. See the national website http://www.40daysforlife.com for the vigil nearest you!
oops, sorry, i forgot to fill in the name before i hit send
oops, sorry, i forgot to fill in the name before i hit send
Jan, may I ask why you decided that you needed to abort? And do you think that if your experience had been more typical of a 22 week abortion, you would have had the ‘conversion’ that you experienced?
Sally,
are you willing to trust an abortionist with a premie? when the intent of the abortionist was to kill the premie in the first place?
Posted by: Jasper at October 27, 2008 9:47 PM
………………………….
Let’s take this really slow and logically Jasper. What is an abortionist? What does their real world training and education consist of?
Sorry Liz:
It is not I who is ignorant. You hate me because I don’t put forth the politically correct version of God’s Word and you simply cannot handle it.
As much as you wish for such, there won’t be any unrepentant gays in heaven. Take it up with God. Pay special attention to verse 27 in the passage below. Perhaps you chose to rip that page out of your Bible? If you really loved gay people you would forget about yourself and all the rejection you would experience in warning them of what would really happen to them if they did not repent from the sinful lifestyle, perhaps, just perhaps, you might meet a few of them in heaven, that’s assuming of course that you make it despite being totally ignorant of God’s Word. Wishful thinking does not replace sound dotrine. Verse 29 describes many of those that post on this site and I for one will not water down God’s Word nor will I stop posting the truth.
STOP DISSING GOD’S WORD AND LIVING FOR YOURSELF AND HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL THE TRUTH – ALL OF YOU WHO CLAIM TO KNOW CHRIST!!!!! IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE HIS WORDS WHY EVEN BOTHER? YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE GOD’S MIND, HE’S NOT GOING TO BEND TO YOUR FANTASIES. IT’S HIS WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.
Romans 1: 18-31 “18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”
Yes, supporting and promoting abortion is simply what results when people don’t know the truth nature of God.
Tell me this Liz. How many gay friends have you led to Christ and, as a result, have abandoned their sinful lifestyle? Or do you simply enable them in their sin, thereby becoming complicit in their perverted behavior – an enabler? I see a lot of this on this site. People who claim to know God but have no backbone, who don’t have a clue what “stand firm” means.
Yes, the more I read this blog, the more I realize how far gone this country and world are. I am sorry that my generation let you down. We failed to teach you about God and now we are reaping the whirlwind.
Oh please HisMan- spare us the hysterics.
A Letter from an Independent Voter
Dear Friends:
My name is Joe Porter. I live in Champaign, Illinois. I’m 46 years old, a born-again Christian, a husband, a father, a small business owner, a veteran, and a homeowner. I don’t consider myself to be either conservative or liberal, and I vote for the person, not Republican or Democrat.
I don’t believe there are “two Americas” but that every person in this country can be whomever and whatever they want to be if they’ll just work to get there and nowhere else on earth can they find such opportunities. I believe our government should help those who are legitimately downtrodden, and should always put the interests of America first.
The purpose of this message is that I’m concerned about the future of this great nation. I’m worried that the silent majority of honest, hard-working, tax-paying people in this country have been passive for too long. Most folks I know choose not to involve themselves in politics. They go about their daily lives, paying their bills, raising their kids, and doing what they can to maintain the good life. They vote and consider doing so to be a sacred trust.
They shake their heads at the political pundits and so-called “news”, thinking that what they hear is always spun by whomever is reporting it. They can’t understand how elected officials can regularly violate the public trust with pork barrel spending. They don’t want government handouts. They want the government to protect them, not raise their taxes for more government programs.
We are in the unique position in this country of electing our leaders. It’s a privilege to do so. I’ve never found a candidate in any election with whom I agreed on everything. I’ll wager that most of us don’t even agree with our families or spouses 100% of the time. So when I step into that voting booth, I always try to look at the big picture and cast my vote for the man or woman who is best qualified for the job. I’ve hired a lot of people in my lifetime, and essentially that’s what an election is — a hiring process.
Who has the credentials? Whom do I want working for me? Whom can I trust to do the job right?
I’m concerned that a growing number of voters in this country simply don’t get it. They are caught up in a fervor they can’t explain, and calling it “change”.
“Change what?”, I ask.
“Well, we’re going to change America”, they say.
“In what way?”, I query.
“We want someone new and fresh in the White House”, they exclaim.
“So, someone who’s not a politician?”, I say.
“Uh, well, no, we just want a lot of stuff changed, so we’re voting for Obama”, they state.
“So the current system, the system of freedom and democracy that has enabled a man to grow up in this great country, get a fine education, raise incredible amounts of money and dominate the news, and win his party’s nomination for the White House that system’s all wrong?”
“No, no, that part of the system’s okay we just need a lot of change.”
And so it goes. “Change we can believe in.”
Quite frankly, I don’t believe that vague proclamations of change hold any promise for me. In recent months, I’ve been asking virtually everyone I encounter how they’re voting. I live in Illinois, so most folks tell me they’re voting for Barack Obama. But no one can really tell me why only that he’s going to change a lot of stuff “Change, change, change.” I have yet to find one single person who can tell me distinctly and convincingly why this man is qualified to be President and Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful nation on earth other than the fact that he claims he’s going to implement a lot of change.
We’ve all seen the emails about Obama’s genealogy, his upbringing, his Muslim background, and his church affiliations. Let’s ignore this for a moment. Put it all aside. Then ask yourself, ‘What qualifies this man to be my president? That he’s a brilliant orator and talks about change?’
CHANGE WHAT?
Friends, I’ll be forthright with you I believe the American voters who are supporting Barack Obama don’t have a clue what they’re doing, as evidenced by the fact that not one of them — NOT ONE of them I’ve spoken to can spell out his qualifications. Not even the most liberal media can explain why he should be elected.
Political experience? Negligible.
Foreign relations? Non-existent. Achievements? Name one.
Someone who wants to unite the country? If you haven’t read his wife’s thesis from Princeton, look it up on the web. This is who’s lining up to be our next First Lady? The only thing I can glean from Obama’s constant harping about change is that we’re in for a lot of new taxes.
For me, the choice is clear. I’ve looked carefully at the two leading applicants for the job, and I’ve made my choice.
Here’s a question — ‘Where were you five and a half years ago? Around Christmas, 2002. You’ve had five or six birthdays in that time. My son has grown from a sixth grade child to a high school graduate. Five and a half years is a good chunk of time. About 2,000 days. 2,000 nights of sleep. 6,000 meals, give or take.’
John McCain spent that amount of time, from 1967 to 1973, in a North Vietnamese prisoner-of-war camp.
When offered early release, he refused it. He considered this offer to be a public relations stunt by his captors, and insisted that those held longer than he should be released first. Did you get that part? He was offered his freedom, and he turned it down. A regimen of beatings and torture began.
Do you possess such strength of character? Locked in a filthy cell in a foreign country, would you turn down your own freedom in favor of your fellow man? I submit that’s a quality of character that is rarely found, and for me, this singular act defines John McCain.
Unlike several presidential candidates in recent years whose military service is questionable or non-existent, you will not find anyone to denigrate the integrity and moral courage of this man. A graduate of Annapolis, during his Naval service he received the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. His own son is now serving in the Marine Corps in Iraq . Barack Obama is fond of saying ‘We honor John McCain’s service…BUT…….’, which to mei s condescending and offensive – because what I hear is, ‘Let’s forget this man’s sacrifice for his country, and his proven leadership abilities, and talk some more about change.’
I don’t agree with John McCain on everything — but I am utterly convinced that he is qualified to be our next President, and I trust him to do what’s right. I know in my heart that he has the best interests of our country in mind. He doesn’t simply want to be President — he wants to lead America, and there’s a huge difference. Factually, there is simply no comparison between the two candidates.
A man of questionable background and motives who prattles on about change, can’t hold a candle to a man who has devoted his life in public service to this nation, retiring from the Navy in 1981 and elected to the Senate in 1982.
Perhaps Obama’s supporters are taking a stance between old and new. Maybe they don’t care about McCain’s service or his strength of character, or his unblemished qualifications to be President. Maybe ‘likeability’ is a higher priority for them than ‘trust’.
Being a prisoner of war is not what qualifies John McCain to be President of the United States of America — but his demonstrated leadership certainly DOES.
Dear friends, it is time for us to stand. It is time for thinking Americans to say, “Enough.” It is time for people of all parties to stop following the party line.
It is time for anyone who wants to keep America first, who wants the right man leading their nation, to start a dialogue with all their friends and neighbors and ask who they’re voting for, and why.
There’s a lot of evil in this world. That should be readily apparent to all of us by now. And when faced with that evil as we are now, I want a man who knows the cost of war on his troops and on his citizens. I want a man who puts my family’s interests before any foreign country.
I want a President who’s qualified to lead.
I want my country back, and I’m voting for John McCain.
I kind of can’t wait to get to heaven and meet all the fabulous gays there. It will be a lovely day I believe. :)
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriellas Momma) at October 27, 2008 9:01 PM
they may be there, but none of their kids will :0)
Elizabeth, what mak,es a homo a homo? Is it the sex or the love they share for one another?
PIP,
Maybe you could give that one a shot too? What makes a homo a homo. Is it the sex or the love they have for one another. Is it possible to be a celibate homosexual? If so, then how is that different then brotherly love?
To all new Arabic enthusiasts a reminder that I don’t allow foreign language posts.
To all Born Alive Infants Protection Act disparagers, a reminder to read my posts in total. I wrote, “The Born Alive Infants Protection Act should have protected him but didn’t. State and federal prosecutors failed him.” The death of Baby Rowan could have and should have been prosecuted but wasn’t either due to bias or missing gonads.
Oh, and Sally, you’re banned. Your comment to Rowan’s mother was, as typical, below the belt. But enough.
Hi JAN. Nice to “see” you again :)
How bizarre is it that there have been arabic posts on this blog? Really, it’s quite strange.
To Jan: I am sorry that you had the experience that you did. Even though Rowan died, he led you to the truth, as do our children usually! I know after the birth of my first child, being a mother and being responsible for him changed me forever.
Your witness to the truth is wonderful, but I’m sure it is heart-rending at the same time.
Hello again, JAN! Thank you for sharing your story and your heart here.
Change YES. Obama NO.
Just Look: Cardinal Egan Compares Abortion Crimes to those of Hitler, Stalin
By Edward Cardinal Egan, Archbishop of New York
October 27, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) – The picture on this page is an untouched photograph of a being that has been within its mother for 20 weeks. Please do me the favor of looking at it carefully at http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/oct/08102701.html
Have you any doubt that it is a human being?
If you do not have any such doubt, have you any doubt that it is an innocent human being?
If you have no doubt about this either, have you any doubt that the authorities in a civilized society are duty-bound to protect this innocent human being if anyone were to wish to kill it?
If your answer to this last query is negative, that is, if you have no doubt that the authorities in a civilized society would be duty-bound to protect this innocent human being if someone were to wish to kill it, I would suggest—even insist—that there is not a lot more to be said about the issue of abortion in our society. It is wrong, and it cannot—must not—be tolerated.
But you might protest that all of this is too easy. Why, you might inquire, have I not delved into the opinion of philosophers and theologians about the matter? And even worse: Why have I not raised the usual questions about what a “human being” is, what a “person” is, what it means to be “living,” and such? People who write books and articles about abortion always concern themselves with these kinds of things. Even the justices of the Supreme Court who gave us “Roe v. Wade” address them. Why do I neglect philosophers and theologians? Why do I not get into defining “human being,” defining “person,” defining “living,” and the rest? Because, I respond, I am sound of mind and endowed with a fine set of eyes, into which I do not believe it is well to cast sand. I looked at the photograph, and I have no doubt about what I saw and what are the duties of a civilized society if what I saw is in danger of being killed by someone who wishes to kill it or, if you prefer, someone who “chooses” to kill it. In brief: I looked, and I know what I saw.
But what about the being that has been in its mother for only 15 weeks or only 10? Have you photographs of that too? Yes, I do. However, I hardly think it necessary to show them. For if we agree that the being in the photograph printed on this page is an innocent human being, you have no choice but to admit that it may not be legitimately killed even before 20 weeks unless you can indicate with scientific proof the point in the development of the being before which it was other than an innocent human being and, therefore, available to be legitimately killed. Nor have Aristotle, Aquinas or even the most brilliant embryologists of our era or any other era been able to do so. If there is a time when something less than a human being in a mother morphs into a human being, it is not a time that anyone has ever been able to identify, though many have made guesses. However, guesses are of no help. A man with a shotgun who decides to shoot a being that he believes may be a human being is properly hauled before a judge. And hopefully, the judge in question knows what a “human being” is and what the implications of someone’s wishing to kill it are. The word “incarceration” comes to mind.
However, we must not stop here. The matter becomes even clearer and simpler if you obtain from the National Geographic Society two extraordinary DVDs. One is entitled “In the Womb” and illustrates in color and in motion the development of one innocent human being within its mother. The other is entitled “In the Womb—Multiples” and in color and motion shows the development of two innocent human beings—twin boys—within their mother. If you have ever allowed yourself to wonder, for example, what “living” means, these two DVDs will be a great help. The one innocent human being squirms about, waves its arms, sucks its thumb, smiles broadly and even yawns; and the two innocent human beings do all of that and more: They fight each other. One gives his brother a kick, and the other responds with a sock to the jaw. If you can convince yourself that these beings are something other than living and innocent human beings, something, for example, such as “mere clusters of tissues,” you have a problem far more basic than merely not appreciating the wrongness of abortion. And that problem is—forgive me—self-deceit in a most extreme form.
Adolf Hitler convinced himself and his subjects that Jews and homosexuals were other than human beings. Joseph Stalin did the same as regards Cossacks and Russian aristocrats. And this despite the fact that Hitler and his subjects had seen both Jews and homosexuals with their own eyes, and Stalin and his subjects had seen both Cossacks and Russian aristocrats with theirs. Happily, there are few today who would hesitate to condemn in the roundest terms the self-deceit of Hitler, Stalin or even their subjects to the extent that the subjects could have done something to end the madness and protect living, innocent human beings.
It is high time to stop pretending that we do not know what this nation of ours is allowing—and approving—with the killing each year of more than 1,600,000 innocent human beings within their mothers. We know full well that to kill what is clearly seen to be an innocent human being or what cannot be proved to be other than an innocent human being is as wrong as wrong gets. Nor can we honorably cover our shame (1) by appealing to the thoughts of Aristotle or Aquinas on the subject, inasmuch as we are all well aware that their understanding of matters embryological was hopelessly mistaken, (2) by suggesting that “killing” and “choosing to kill” are somehow distinct ethically, morally or criminally, (3) by feigning ignorance of the meaning of “human being,” “person,” “living,” and such, (4) by maintaining that among the acts covered by the right to privacy is the act of killing an innocent human being, and (5) by claiming that the being within the mother is “part” of the mother, so as to sustain the oft-repeated slogan that a mother may kill or authorize the killing of the being within her “because she is free to do as she wishes with her own body.”
One day, please God, when the stranglehold on public opinion in the United States has been released by the extremists for whom abortion is the center of their political and moral life, our nation will, in my judgment, look back on what we have been doing to innocent human beings within their mothers as a crime no less heinous than what was approved by the Supreme Court in the “Dred Scott Case” in the 19th century, and no less heinous than what was perpetrated by Hitler and Stalin in the 20th. There is nothing at all complicated about the utter wrongness of abortion, and making it all seem complicated mitigates that wrongness not at all. On the contrary, it intensifies it.
Do me a favor. Look at the photograph again. Look and decide with honesty and decency what the Lord expects of you and me as the horror of “legalized” abortion continues to erode the honor of our nation. Look, and do not absolve yourself if you refuse to act.
Edward Cardinal Egan
Archbishop of New York
Jan, God be with you.
Thank you for bravely telling your story. You know, opening yourself up for the inevitable ridicule that Satan heaps upon repentant post-abortive mothers is the mark of a true hero. As a post-abortive mother, I know what it’s like and I admire you for taking a stand, even when you are mocked by those who call themselves “pro-choice” in order to shake your faith in God. I know that you won’t let that happen.
If you’d like to read my blog about my experience with abortion, please click on the green link below at PJMama. I would also love to correspond with you about your post-abortive experience, as I have yet to gain the confidence to deal publicly with my mine.
Again, God bless you for telling your story, even through the difficult attacks that you have and will continue to experience. God is with you and will keep you strong, so that you can make Baby Rowan’s short life make a difference to stop abortion forever.
JAN, I am so sorry that you were attacked. Thank you for being strong enough to share your story, so that it may help others.
Hello Jill
I too fell into the lies of abortion. And years later I still repent and ask the Lord to forgive me for what I have done.
But It is now the fault of us the women that make the choice. I was lied to, I was told the baby was just a smear of blood. After
learning about you and your stories, I have come to realize that I too fell in the trap.
22 weeks trailer made me weep and cry endlesly, I know how she feels I know what she felt, i know because I lived it. Oh Dear God.
Abortion should be illegal. People need to be educated. More documentaries with real information in regards to the child’s development should be made public. The abortions clinics have counselors but is all in the favor of the abortion, since they are the ones who tell you that the baby is just a blood smear at 3 month. This is not true. I have been deceived. I have been lied to.
I would love to be part of your organization. But you are so far away and I am in Miami. God bless you. Marina Cruz, Miami,FL.
P.S. I have written a beautiful song called “Broken Dolls, Munecos Rotos” based on the silent pain I have felt for years. I know realize that each time I have been pregnant I have needed emergency therapy sessions for what is known as a Post Partum Depression the only thing is that I have this condition while I am getting pregnant not after the pregnancy. The Lord has made me see that what I need is therapy not Killing of my unborn child. I ask the Lord for forgiveness for our killings of babies.
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PJMama: my fav line in Cardinal Egan’s piece:
If you can convince yourself that these beings are something other than living and innocent human beings, something, for example, such as “mere clusters of tissues,” you have a problem far more basic than merely not appreciating the wrongness of abortion. And that problem is—forgive me—self-deceit in a most extreme form.
I think he was being too charitable.
Elsa Marina, I am so very sorry for your pain and for your loss.
Elsa,
Welcome, and thank you so much for sharing. Know that your sins are but a drop in the infinite ocean of mercy of our Lord. I would love to hear your song. God love you.
I agree Patricia. I have an image of those who call themselves “pro-choice” as literally having no eyes. Mere shells of human beings; Zombies.
You know, all criminals believe that what they are doing is justifiable, even if they know it’s not “right”. The most common self-delusion is in viewing their victims as “less than human” (slave-owners, and even the U.S. Supreme Court once defined black people as “3/5ths of a person” in the Dred Scott decision http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford )
Please go to the following link to read excerpts from the book “The Crime of Destruction and the Law of Genocide: Their Impact on Collective Memory” by Caroline Fournet.
Of specific interest to me is Chapter 2 beginning on page 13 entitled “Dehumanizing Intent and Destruction”
http://books.google.com/books?id=mAn-ExeN_p8C&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=dehumanization+of+victims+of+crime&source=web&ots=STX3j92rZx&sig=lZqIXztoCQ8JzX7i_SBpwd_Gsa0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result
Elsa,
I was lied to as well and am so glad you commented! You are not alone in your experience with abortion. PJMama and I stand with you!! There is much healing and hope for those that have been hurt by abortion. You will be in my thoughts and prayers today, Elsa.
God hears and heals. He is the only reason I can speak out about the pain that abortion brings.
God bless you!!
Elsa, let not your heart be troubled. God is there for you and He forgives you simply because you believe in Him and because you have realized your error. If He can forgive us, how can we be justified in not forgiving ourselves? Don’t mock His love by refusing to love yourself, as he loves you. Take heart and comfort in knowing that your repentance is all that He asks for, and you have given it. Jesus absolves us and tells us to “go forth and sin no more”. I will do that, and so will Carla and so will you and so will all of the other post-abortive mothers who accept Jesus Christ into their hearts. Cry, not for sadness, but for joy, for you are saved and your baby sits at the right hand of God Himself as we speak.
In Christ,
Michelle
a.k.a. PJMama
Elsa,
It is also tempting to blame others for misleading us, but the real sin of abortion is in failing to lean on God and turn over our futures to Him, regardless of what lies other people tell us.
Trusting in God means following Him, even unto our own deaths. Remember that unwavering allegiance to God and His teachings can lead to much persecution and suffering in this life. So God-loving people EXPECT to be lied to and tempted to take the easy way out in order to avoid suffering and pain. Even Jesus was tempted before his death and during His time on the cross. It is human nature to want to avoid strife, and that is where you and I failed. Even in the face of possible difficulty in raising a child, God commands us to put our faith in Him and we did not do that.
Don’t get me wrong…the abortionists and abortion supporters of this world are out to do evil’s bidding, but it is our job as followers of God’s word to resist their empty promises at all costs.
Since realizing that my abortion was the ultimate rejection of God’s promise that He will care for me, I am doing my best to live each day by “turning it over to God”, knowing that my reward may or may not come during my life her on earth, but that it will definitely come in the next.
Elisa…… *hugs*
oops, I mean Elsa. Sorry, I misread your name.
Hal,
Can you point to any life that was saved because of the Act? Even one?
BAIPA protects a baby born alive after a “botched abortion”. How many abortionists are going to report that they’ve botched an abortion? None. His job is killing babies so if he reported it he might jeopardize his job, don’t you think?
Posted by: Janet at October 27, 2008 9:08 PM
So, tell me again why this law was so very important. You say it is unenforceable. Other laws, although not perfect, result in some prosecutions now and then. This law seems fatally flawed, and designed that way.
Hello Jill
My name is E. Marina Cruz, I am a licenced early childhood educator and childcare director in Miami, FL. For many years I too fell into the lies of abortion and womens’ “right choice.”
Based on my true life experience and after years of having performed abortions. I have come to the understanding that I have committed murder to my unborn child.
But the silence has been broken. It took Years of courage for me to tell you what I am telling you know. Or to even tell anyone my change of heart. Since people immediately judge you.
Like for example when I told my cousing about my opposition to women’s abortion choice. My cousin was the first one to point the finger and say ….”but you did it” yes, like I told him I did it. And this is why I feel so strong about this issue. And unless you have been there, and perform an abortion and live with your choice your eternal life you really have no basis to know what I am talking about. Yes and I did it . And now I have to live with the “Pro” death choice my eternal life.
I repent and have asked the Lord to forgive me for what I have done.
But It is NOT the fault of us the women that make the choice. It is the Law.
I was lied to, I was deceipt in a time of desperation. Yes, I was desperate. And the Abortion Therapist lied to me, everyone lied to me, time and time again they tell their patients that the unborn child is nothing but a ta smear of blood, and with a pen draw a little spot on a paper. This is not true. Science and videos have proven time and time again the baby’s brain development and heart development at early weeks in pregnancy.
After learning facts from other sources, I have come to realize that I too fell in the trap.
22 weeks movie trailer made me weep and cry endlesly, I know how she feels I know what she felt, i know because I lived it. Oh Dear God. Finally some has spoken out! Finally the truth is emerging. Abortion should be illegal. People need to be educated. More documentaries with real information in regards to the child’s development and real pictures, should be made public.
Yes, The abortions clinics have counselors but is all in the favor of the abortion, since they are the ones who tell you that the baby is just a blood smear at 3 month.
I would love to be part of your organization. I have written a beautiful song called “Broken Dolls, Munecos Rotos”. I would love to devote my life to this wrong doing that I took fell into. God Bless people like you. Please direct me to the office here in Miami, FL where I can help. Meanwhile know that people all over the world love you for what you are doing. And all the unborn children are grateful.
Your Always, Marina C. / Miami, Florida
Elsa: be at peace. God loves you and sees your pain.
Thank you for having the courage to share your story and your hurt.
I think PJMama you are quite correct about abortion being about our lack of trust in God. But for some, it is not about that. It is just because they want to live a certain way period.
I will check out the link later today. I have to go earn my keep now! :-D
God bless
BAIPA protects a baby born alive after a “botched abortion”. How many abortionists are going to report that they’ve botched an abortion? None. His job is killing babies so if he reported it he might jeopardize his job, don’t you think?
Posted by: Janet at October 27, 2008 9:08 PM
So, tell me again why this law was so very important. You say it is unenforceable. Other laws, although not perfect, result in some prosecutions now and then. This law seems fatally flawed, and designed that way.
Posted by: Hal at October 28, 2008 9:54 AM
Hal!….Hal?I?…are you there…heellloooo? What part of “abortion is untouchable” don’t you understand? It’s people like you who have made “the right to abortion” so sacred, so fundamental, that you’ve succeeded in creating the backalley abortion scenario that was so shamelessly exploited in the early 70s to legalize the killing. Now, abortion is such a hot-button issue, that no District Attorney wants to touch it for fear of the wrath that will be brought down on their heads for having the nerve to question these abortionists who only exist to “serve women”. B.S.
So, the back alley abortion horror that actually didn’t even exist in any real numbers before Roe v. Wade has, ironically, been CREATED by this “hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil” environment that pro-aborts like to call “progress”.
You’re a delusional creep who holds no values whatsoever. Please crawl into a hole somewhere and search your soul. God can help you. He loves EVEN you. I’m having a hard time doing the same, brother.
I understand abortion is “untouchable.” I don’t understand why one man’s position on an ineffective law a few years back is such a huge issue to some of you. The law doesn’t work, can’t work, and that must have been obvious when it was in Committee. Let’s give it a rest. Obama is pro-choice, can’t we just hate him for that? [no, becuase that won’t mislead the American public, which is also generally pro-choice. We have to make him “the most extreme anti-life candidate ever in the history of the nation.”]
Hal,
So, tell me again why this law was so very important.
I’m done trying to explain. Since you don’t feel that abortion is morally wrong, I’m afraid you will never understand why BAIPA was needed.
“Needed?” It isn’t even useful. Even if you are against abortion, you have to view BAIPA as a useless diversion.
Hey there everyone. Thank you so much for the kind words. :u)
BTW, I don’t really mind the verbal attacks, I learned early on to expect them.
Erin, you asked “why” I chose to terminate? Well, I was raped. I had a stalker of sorts. I went to my local Police department about this person repeatedly. He was rather cagey and never quite broke any laws. His grandfather is a fairly prominent citizen here. I just kept being dismissed, told not to worry, etc. I even had my boss go with me once because he would lurk around outside our offices. ..Finally, he raped me.
I didn’t even bother with being dismissed and humiliated again. I also had a mandatory meeting with several County Supervisor’s arranged the next morning, caterers and all. My boss was not going to be there and this was a multi million dollar deal. I HAD to go, I was in charge of the entire project. I just went to the meeting in a daze.
Next thing you know? I am pregnant.
I honsetly confess, I was a little bit excited. I hated it at the same time but… a baby…they are so wonderful and amazing. I already had two children at the time.
I didnt tell anyone at first but the worries were consuming. I mean, the guy who was the bio-dad would surely figure it out. How would I ever be free of him? How would the child? What will this do to my other children…etc, etc.
By the end of my first trimester, I still planned to hide the pregnancy until I had a solution. I went to a counselor. She was a Christian lady. She saw the difficult decisions at hand and she expressed concerns about the bio-father causing me further harm. A so called trusted friend told both my fiance and the rapist, I was pregnant.
All manner of he77 broke out from there. The guy got an attorney. My fiance called my mom. Everything began to spiral out of control… Pressure from the therapist to abort, to keep my other children safe. Pressure from the fiance who didn’t want a stalker come rapist in our lives because of a child. My Mom fearing for everyone, all 3 children and her daughter too.The rapist’s grandfather hired an attorney. He threatened for me to abort, or he would break me financially until he seized custody of the child.
It was all surreal and heartbreaking.
I told my ex husband. He didnt want the children around if the rapist would be fighting me for the next year or two in a dirty custodial battle. He did not think it was safe…now? I’m looing at losing 3 children. (I understood everyone’s fears…I had them too, but it all got overblown in hindsight.)
No matter how I sought alternative solutions, I just felt like I was drowning…and like all the people who claim they loved me…they were just standing on the shore…watching or walking away.
It’s really hard to explain to someone who hasn’t been there.
So? I caved. I wrote the letters to my child that the therapist assigned me as “homework” I named my son. I chose verses. I researched, at her suggestion, various methods of termination.
Everything seemed so abominable, and so hopeless. I made an appointment, bought a plane ticket, resevered a room…and basically, I went on serious auto pilot.
To be really honest with you? I almost felt relieved. No one was harrassing me or pressuring me anymore. My family and fiance, they began to return to ‘normal” if you will. They had done an about face.
I was really afraid. Heartbroken. Still, I deferred to the wisdom and wishes of everyone I either loved, depended on me or paid for “expert” advice.
Erin, and anyone else who reads this? I din’t want to end my son’s life.
Therefore, there was no “conversion.”
When I went to the clinic the second day, there was no doctor. I was dropped off by taxi. I was told there would be no doctor present when, my contractions were between 5 and 6 minutes apart.
I couldn’t have walked anywhere to save my life. I just waited for the nurse to return and take me to a delivery room. (ha ha) It’s not funny, mind you but now, I have to laugh…they were NOT nurses, they had no medical training…and there was no delivery room. Women in scrubs, wearing nametags…that’s all they were. Of course, they aren’t going to tell you this before hand right?
When Rowan was born, I thought that God was answering my prayers at the eleventh hour. He was showing me that I needn’t fear everything and everyone that I had worried over before….somehow, now, it would all be okay.
I remember holding him, and his precious face turning toward the sound of my voice as I sang to him. I was desperately afraid but felt very blessed…I did not want him to sense my fear.
I placed my piny finger in his hand and he wrapped his tiny fingers around me. It was just a time thing… we could have made it to a hospital, if Violene or Debbie had called the ambulance for us.
Would he still be with me today? Who can say? Did he have the right as a now separate and individual human being, to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Yes, he did.
I think that he would have survived. At least for a time. Another hour? Another day? a hundred years? We will never know because the clinc staff refused to allow the EMT’s into the building…
I am not converted. I would never do it again. I know what losing your child feels like. I had a hand in his death. I was wrong, yes…but I was not alone in my accountability.
That’s the thing about abortion. most women, don’t want the crisis..true.. but the grief? It hangs with you, even when you don’t see what I saw.
Ask any woman who has terminated, (with whom you can have such a conversation) and she will tell you that had there been another reasonable solution, she would not have made that “choice”
I hope that explains it.
a
I’m crying for you and Baby Rowan right now. I am so sorry for all that you and your son went through. Thank you for telling your story. I know it is difficult to talk about…I admire your courage in telling the truth.
Maybe if the world hears enough of our stories of abortion and how it solves NOTHING, things will change for the better. Maybe then, we will actually begin to love both the mother AND her baby, even when things get that difficult. There is always another solution than abortion; it simply involves caring for and supporting one another.
God bless you, Jan
“Needed?” It isn’t even useful. Even if you are against abortion, you have to view BAIPA as a useless diversion.
Posted by: Hal at October 28, 2008 10:41 AM
Hal, could you try to see something from someone else’s standpoint? Or at least respect my opinion? Thank you.
Thanks for sharing that, JAN, it was very enlightening. (((((hugs))))) for you!
Jan,
Heartbreaking. I am so sorry for all that you have been through. Please know that you and Rowan are loved!!!
Hal, could you try to see something from someone else’s standpoint? Or at least respect my opinion? Thank you.
Posted by: Janet at October 28, 2008 11:29 AM
Janet, did anyone ever try to respect Obama’s opinion on this issue? I think not. I have never seen so much venim directed at a candidate for what appears now to have been a fairly minor issue. I’m sorry if the truth is offensive, but the truth is that this act has not, will not, and cannot, save any babies. That’s not my analysis, that’s what I read here. I’ll respect the opinion of anyone who can say “sure we supported this law, but we won’t demonize those who didn’t.”
I cannot respect anyone who equates opposition to this useless law with “infanticide.” Not now, not ever.
Your rapist should be executed Jan. His Grandfather should be put in prison for a long, long time for threatening you.
Thank you, Carla, Erin and PJMama.. :)
Please, will you pray for Angel Manuel Soto Vazquez today? Please pray for the viewers as well.
I finally received a copy of the film and watched it. It is very moving. (Not just because it was our truth, but because of the way in which Angel has framed the story.)
It is not a pro life movie at all. It will be well received by pro lifers for the obvious reasons…but…I let a couple of people watch the movie…who incidentally did not know it was about me…and they were tearing up. One is a grown man, non christian, liberal minded and intelligent human being. He is also pro choice.
The movie asks the question, “what would you do?” It does not aply solely to the mother in the film…it means in each persons given role on that day…It sort of confronts you with who you are(or would be)in an crisis/emergency situation.
Angel, will undoubtebly be asked some difficult questions, and they won’t be limited to movie making.
Please pray for him to be able to feel confident in his convictions as he prepares to speak his heart and beliefs to students this evening.
Pray for his honesty to cause others to examine their own beliefs and and seek self enlightenment, no matter what they learn from the film.
He and I have become friends…of all the things imaginable, huh?
It is my hope for him to do well and use his gifts to reach the hearts of others, no matter what the subject matter of this movie, or others he has in the works.
God takes talent and uses it for goodness when we allow Him to do so.
Anyway, please pray for Angel.
Thanks,
a
The question I have Jan is how can we put your rapist in jail? We have to make sure he can’t hurt anyone else.
Jess,
Hey..I just saw your comment.
David (the guy) will live an imprisoned life of some sort, I am sure.
He knows what happened. He actually tried to contact my parents for about a year afterwards. he is a pretty demented fellow. The therapist I couseled with when pregnant with Rowan called him a “Malignant Narcissist” with strong sociopathic tendencies. She jokingly nicknamed him, “Scott Peterson”.
Living the life of a person in perpetual fear of who and what they are, with no self identity, only a mask…it must be like prison. He stands for nothing, contributes nothing to society, has been abandoned by his family and moves from state to state. It must be awful to be David.
Even worse than it is to be Rowan’s mom, I suspect.
I am also, a Mom to other children, and I love being able to stand up for what I believe in, even when it hurts to do so. Accountability and self identity, they have their benefits. :)
I better get back to work. Thank you, Jess.
PS, In case you have not noticed, I can NOT type! LOL
Hey Jess,
Apparently, when I am posting you are posting…I am always 2 behind you and when I check..I’ve responded to the post before..LoL
You can’t, the statute of limitations is up. There is no longer any legal recourse.
I will pray for Angel, JAN. :)
JAN,
Did you wind up getting married to your fiance? (The one who wanted you to have the abortion) Again, I’ve talked to you before and told you how very sorry I am for all you have had to endure in your life, but I would just like to say it again. I can feel your pain in every post you write. I hope speaking out about it helps a little bit of that pain heal.
HisMan,
That must be why I’m sure you have soooo many gay friends..because you’re leading them to Christ. Mmhmm. *eyeroll* It really isn’t my job to lead anybody to Christ. If they want to find Him, all they have to do is go look for Him, and I’ll gladly support them in that if that’s what they wish. But as far as bullying and predicting their doom that may not even happen (since ya know I’m not God and *I* don’t say who goes to Hell or not, and neither do YOU) I don’t really bother. They’re adults and can make their own choices, and I’ll still be there for them and support them in the best way I know how.
P.S. Get over it—God loves everybody, even teh evulllll gayzzz.
P.P.S. I don’t hate you..I just don’t want people getting the wrong impression who have never been here that all pro-lifers are homophobes..like yourself.
Hal,
Janet, did anyone ever try to respect Obama’s opinion on this issue? I think not.
I don’t like to break questions into bits and pieces like this, but I will so I answer you completely. I assume you are talking about pro-lifers here. I can’t respect Obama’s opinion, although I respect his right to HAVE an opinion. Same with you.
I have never seen so much venim directed at a candidate for what appears now to have been a fairly minor issue. I’m sorry if the truth is offensive, but the truth is that this act has not, will not, and cannot, save any babies. That’s not my analysis, that’s what I read here.
I dispute your statement that this law is a minor issue or that it has not, will not, and cannot save babies. Laws can act as deterrents to bad behavior. A nurse could report an illegal act of an abortionist who does not try to give care to a born-alive aborted baby. Knowing how unregulated the abortion industry is, I doubt anyone is keeping statistics. I feel the burden of proof is on you to show that it cannot save babies.
I’ll respect the opinion of anyone who can say “sure we supported this law, but we won’t demonize those who didn’t.”
Personally, I wouldn’t say Obama is a demon. Your respect for any of us is less important to us than your respect for the unborn.
I cannot respect anyone who equates opposition to this useless law with “infanticide.” Not now, not ever.
Who besides you says this law is useless? I suspect what is being referred to with the accusation of “infanticed” is moral culpability.
Posted by: Hal at October 28, 2008 12:10 PM
Who besides you says this law is useless?
Posted by: Janet at October 28, 2008 3:04 PM
You, for one:
BAIPA protects a baby born alive after a “botched abortion”. How many abortionists are going to report that they’ve botched an abortion? None. His job is killing babies so if he reported it he might jeopardize his job, don’t you think?
Posted by: Janet at October 27, 2008 9:08 PM
and then there’s PJMama:
What part of “abortion is untouchable” don’t you understand? It’s people like you who have made “the right to abortion” so sacred, so fundamental, that you’ve succeeded in creating the backalley abortion scenario that was so shamelessly exploited in the early 70s to legalize the killing. Now, abortion is such a hot-button issue, that no District Attorney wants to touch it for fear of the wrath that will be brought down on their heads for having the nerve to question these abortionists who only exist to “serve women”. B.S.
and, of course, Jill, who admits that there have been ZERO prosecutions under this law.
Thank you Carla. :-)
Elizabeth, no I did not marry him. We speak now and are even friends in some odd…I’ve known you for a decade, fashion…but…I could not STAND to see his face, after Rowan. It drove us apart. he wanted me to just get over it…and not talk or think about it… my grief was an inconvience to him.
To be fair, he did the best he could, you know? To this day, I think he believes I did the right thing…just had a bad experience.
Sigh… that kind of narrow mindedness and lack of personal accountability and even denial…. nahhhhh…I can’t marry that. That’s a recipe for disaster! LOL
You mention me sounding like I am in pain… I just want you to know, I am not someone sitting in front of her puter wasting away, kleenex, remote control and a bag of m&M’s at her side…sobbing…bleeding raw emotion, 24-7. ha ha
I do plenty of normal stuff too. :-) I work, like my job, spend time with my son and daughter…hang out with the dog…shoe shop, garden, just like regular folks! LOL
Commenting about Rowan does hurt but I’m not always so morose! :-p
Like now,for example…I am about to run to Lowes to pick out slate, light fixtures, ceiling fans…alll for a renovation/flipping project I am overseeing.
After that? I am coming home shopping online for tibetan singing bowls… some cool hip chairs my child wants for his apartment in LA and wrap the presents I bought last night…then this weekend, I’m going to a college football game..renting a house and just chilling out.(I swear, I am even semi normal!! ROFL)
hugs,
a
“Hal, Who besides you says this law is useless?”
Posted by: Janet at October 28, 2008 3:04 PM
You, for one:
“BAIPA protects a baby born alive after a “botched abortion”. How many abortionists are going to report that they’ve botched an abortion? None. His job is killing babies so if he reported it he might jeopardize his job, don’t you think?”
Posted by: Janet at October 27, 2008 9:08 PM
Hal,
You are taking what I said out of context. And that is your only response to my whole post?
I was replying to your question: “Can you point to any life that was saved because of the Act? Even one?”
I stand by my first answer, just for you – my new answer:
No, I can’t. I wouldn’t know where to look for that kind of information. (I think it’s above my pay-grade.)
Try asking your friendly neighborhood abortion doctor friend. Is he in favor or against BAIPA? Is he voting for Obama? Actually, it would be nice to hear his opinion on FOCA too and all the restrictions on abortion that will fall by the wayside. Maybe Jill could interview him. Frankly my head is spinning because I know that no matter what I say, it will not change your mind that you are right and we are all wrong. You beat me today. I’m tired. You win.
Janet, I understand the symbolic benefits of that Law. I know why you guys support it. I’m fine with all that. Heck, I said I would probably have voted for it. I just am so angry about the hysterical reaction to Obama’s position. It doesn’t make him a supporter of infanticide. Reasonable minds can differ on whether this law is 1) effective, 2) needed, or 3) wise.
It really isn’t my job to lead anybody to Christ. If they want to find Him, all they have to do is go look for Him, and I’ll gladly support them in that if that’s what they wish.
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) at October 28
And Jesus was silent on abortion too. Which means you really have no Christian reasons to support being against the pre-destined death of human beings in the womb, or outside the womb.
Why, in fact, when one loves the creation more then the creator, one has become a typical sinner, advancing their sins to the great washing away of sins, that cometh from loving Jesus and his Father.
Tell me, just who is sent into the bottomless pit for eternity Liz? I suggest nobody goes to a place outside heaven. All murders,rapist, and homosexuals who killed each other through the love of themselves, infecting another human being with death by a virus, should be unrepentant, and raised to being a Archangel of deathsex.
But, since everyone goes to heaven, what words might be appropriate, of a person that caused a slow death unto the one he said he loved, when they meet again in the self made, democratic heaven, which you really believe in Liz?
Im sorry for the slow death I gave you from being ignorant? It was just a accident of my ignorance, or knowingly being unable to stop the drive for pleasure which God created in me. Soo, dead lover from my sexual actions, welcome to Heaven, and in the end it was God that made me do it to you.
Hmm, same reasons one gives for a abortion in truth.
Remarkable Insights into the Nature of Homosexuality
In his description of the unnatural passions that rule over the sodomite, Damian reveals an extraordinary degree of perception regarding the narcissistic, promiscuous and compulsive psychosexual aspects of homosexual behavior.
“Tell us, you unmanly and effeminate man, what do you seek in another male that you do not find in yourself?” he asks. “What difference in sex, what varied features of the body?” he continues.
Then he explains the law of life. “For it is the function of the natural appetite that each should seek outside himself what he cannot find in his own capacity. Therefore, if the touch of masculine/feminine flesh delights you, lay your hands upon yourself and be assured that whatever you do not find in yourself, you seek in vain in the body of another,” he concludes. [42]
And for Bobby, “may I have another” when I question the rationale of a person posting here, who is supposedly pro-life Christian, and writes such tripe as “It really isn’t my job to lead anybody to Christ”.
Tell me Liz, is a homosexual act, a sin against, which pains, which offends, which drives another nail into the body of Jesus, or not?
Since you are the resident expert on homosexuals Liz, do homosexuals think their homosexual acts are a sin against Jesus?
Since your a expert on abortion.
When a mainline Christian gets a abortion, does that Christian think they have sinned against Jesus?
Which one is the true follower, filled with the Holy Spirit of Jesus’ words and life, upon which one is to base their life as a “imitation” of Christ life?
Oh Jan, I didn’t mean to imply that I think you’re wallowing in your own grief, but I know that we all have our moments about the things we’ve done in our life that cause us pain. I know I sure do. :)
yllas,
I don’t bother with your blathering on. When I said it isn’t my job to lead anybody to Christ, I meant it isn’t my job to FORCE anyone to be lead to Christ. If they want to do it, and want my help with it, I’m more than willing to offer my hand in help. I’ll just leave the condemnation and ridiculous predictions of someone else’s future fate, of which you have no REAL knowledge of, to you and HisMan. :)
Hal @ 4:52,
Janet, I understand the symbolic benefits of that Law. I know why you guys support it. I’m fine with all that. Heck, I said I would probably have voted for it. I just am so angry about the hysterical reaction to Obama’s position. It doesn’t make him a supporter of infanticide. Reasonable minds can differ on whether this law is 1) effective, 2) needed, or 3) wise.
I understand your frustration. It’s been a long hall, this election has.
Professor Hadley Arkes is a professor who spoke at the FRC Blogs for Life 2008 Conference that Jill was at early this year. He worked on the BAIPA bill with Jill. Very smart man. He gives his perspective on the politics of the Bush presidency and BAIPA. He doesn’t give all the answers but makes you think. I think you’ll be able to relate to him.
http://www.frcblog.com/2008/01/blogs_for_life_video_hadley_ar.html
Hal,
If you don’t have 30 minutes to watch the whole video, start when the countdown reaches about 14:00 minutes.
Janet, I will indeed watch the whole video. It might take me a day or two as I’m finishing a project.
Hal, Good luck with your project!
I was a politician known for my eloquence and ability to inspire with my speeches. I used it to unite my people at their time of greatest peril.
I see much of myself in young Barack, in his abilities to inspire, unite and lead. And I too know the prejudice leveled at one who is not “pure” blooded – ridiculous term. My mother after all was an American, while my father was British.
I wish Obama well and would vote for him today if I could.
Elizabeth… hey I didnt think that you were implying anything! :-)
I just wanted you to know…I really am semi normal…not a circus freak, a martyr or completely off my rocker! ROFL.
Have a good evening everyone1
a
Mr. Churchill! How wonderful of you to stop by the blog. What’s the after-life like? Does everyone get their own harp or do people have to share?
isn’t the born alive infant protection act for comfort care and not an actual “anti abortion bill”– That was my understanding…but it gets so misunderstood…
Correct me if I am wrong.. just clarifying..
Posted by: Nancy f at October 27, 2008 8:53 PM
No Nancy, that is not correct – the idea that comfort care should be provided was Obama’s – which Jill didn’t respond to (or admit). Then, when the hospital she formerly worked at put in a comfort room (for all non-viable infants) she used that as another way to vilify the hospital. Though just why that room shoudl be seen as some sor tof eeidence against the hospital has always escaped me.
BAIPA is and was clearly ONLY about making an abortion more difficult for a woman to obtain.
Hal, good point – why not just disagree, why the hate? I think the reason the anti’s hate Obama so much is not that he’s pro choice, it’s because he saw through their ploy and called them on it. It made them look underhanded and sneaky – which is what they were being, but now everyone could see through the do-gooder facade to the womb-controlling, misogynistic hypocrites they are.
Phylosopher, I’ve seen it in the past – I think it starts with a candidate just being Pro-Choice and the next thing, be it Clinton, Kerry, Obama, etc., they’re the Antichrist….
Some of it may be as you say, but I see a good bit of it as really wanting (being desperate?) to just “be against” somebody.
The BAIPA, in theory is a very important law. To date, it has not been tested by prosecution.
In the process of a labor and induction abortion..
Once a child has been born and thusly separated from his/her mother (which it is)….
If the child is indeed a homosapien,(which it is)..he/she is entitled to the same rights as any of us here. (We are all homosapiens here, right?) ;)
If we as a society, denied life saving medical care to 6yr olds because their parents did not want them…would that fly?
What is the difference?
It is simple logic.
Is this of issue because it is tied into the abortion debate? Really?
Logically, it CAN’T be…the abortion has been granted…the woman’s legal rights have thusly been preserved. (Can anyone here say I was denied my right to choose abortion?)
I am more of an incrementalist than an absolutist…saying that… Why not simply mandate that the the abortionist inform his patients of the likelihood of a live birth; and ask her to sign and to state her wishes regarding external medical assistance, should the situation arise?
It would not be any different than filling out any other forms one must sign at any physician’s office, prior to a surgical procedure.
I know both sides will argue the merits of this… but…both should agree that this is NOT an additional burden to the attending physician…(when one is ACTUALLY in attendance.)
Informed consent, is one of the many problems we face under current abortion laws. True informed consent and the same standard of care one receives at a veterinary clinic or dentists office SHOULD be federally mandated..it is simple logic.
It won’t threaten Roe v. Wade in the least to implement any of the above.
The BAIPA won’t threaten Roe either.
Some day, someone will be prosecuted under the BAIPA. (Perhaps in the Baby Shanice case?) Until then, we cannot call it “useless” or “a threat”…it simply has not yet been tested on the federal level.
a
Mr. Churchill! How wonderful of you to stop by the blog. What’s the after-life like? Does everyone get their own harp or do people have to share?
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at October 28, 2008 7:26 PM
Call me Sir Winston, please. AS my good friend Mr. Clemens has pointed out in one of his most entertaining tomes, humans are rather confused in their afterlife fantasies, envisioning it filled with harp music and time for abstract thought, a solemn place, devoid of laughter. A state of affairs which they spend their time avoiding while on earth, spending at most an hour or so per week in such a place and activity.
Wise words from a wise man.
“One ought never to turn one’s back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!” -Sir W
….
“Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival”-Sir W
..
“You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.” -Sir W
I am quite capable of looking up my own words on Wikipedia, young man, so to you I say:
“A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.”
I beleive that suit fits quite as well as even my tailor would like.
Phylosopher, I’ve seen it in the past – I think it starts with a candidate just being Pro-Choice and the next thing, be it Clinton, Kerry, Obama, etc., they’re the Antichrist….
Some of it may be as you say, but I see a good bit of it as really wanting (being desperate?) to just “be against” somebody.
Posted by: Doug at October 28, 2008 7:36 PM
What in the world are you talking about, Doug???? Do you think we have nothing better to do with our time, so we look for PC’rs to pick on? You SO don’t get it.
I just am so angry about the hysterical reaction to Obama’s position. It doesn’t make him a supporter of infanticide. Reasonable minds can differ on whether this law is 1) effective, 2) needed, or 3) wise.
Posted by: Hal at October 28, 2008 4:52 PM
Hal, There is NOTHING reasonable about voting against this law. Your messiah tried everthing from constitutional grounds, to already a law on the books, to it would mean overturning Roe; all of which were shown to be unreasonable.
1) The law is enforceable, we just need the authorities to begin enforcing it. Maybe if a nurse like Jill could get a video of born alive infant being killed on a cell phone one of those bastard killers would go to prison.
2) The law is needed so that those bastard killers can be brought to justice.
3) What is unwise about stopping the killing of viable babies that are already born?
Hal, you have issues and you support Obama’s radical stance because it makes your choice to kill your children less barbaric because they weren’t delivered yet. You cope by keeping yourself in a state of dementia where babies lives really mean nothing to you. Lord have mercy.
I’ll just leave the condemnation and ridiculous predictions of someone else’s future fate, of which you have no REAL knowledge of, to you and HisMan. :)
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) at October 28, 2008 5:02 PM
****************************************
HisMan quoted Scripture. The Bible. The book that, as Christians, we’re supposed to believe.
Just how would one acquire “real” knowledge of the future fate of a sinner (that’d be ALL of us)?
Shall we take the Lord’s Word for it, or shall we insert our own beliefs and create a god in our own image, of our own choosing, who winks at our sin?
As for the term “homophobe” I’m pretty sure you have to be afraid of homosexuals to be one. Phobia=fear. I highly doubt that anyone here is actually afraid of homosexuals. I’ve cried with several in my lifetime and been through my share of heartbreaks with at least two of my friends who are gay (and yes, I’ve prayed for them to receive Christ and spoken to them about Him as well, but not simply because they are gay). I have no hatred or fear of homosexuals, but I can’t ignore the fact that Jesus died for their sins as well as mine. If they don’t repent of their sexual immorality and of all their sin and trust in Christ (as defined in Scripture), then what will be their fate, according to Scripture, Elizabeth?
(And just stating an opinion here, but posting things like “OMG, teh gayzzzz” doesn’t make one look very rational, especially when you’re accusing HisMan of being irrational and he’s posted nothing even remotely resembling that.)
By the way, I’ve always thought it was unusual for those in the gay lifestyle to say “I’m gay” as if it somehow embodies their entire being. I don’t speak about myself and say “I’m hetero.” It just appears to me that those in the gay lifestyle often place far too much emphasis on placing their identity in…well, a sex act. *shrug* Also, I think far too many Christians, even, place “being happy” at the top of their priority list. If it “makes me happy” then it must be “God’s will.” That is so twisted, I don’t know where to begin. Sin feels good, but it’s still sin, as we all well know. Ok, Elizabeth, I’m done “blathering” about it now. ;)
JAN, your account about holding Rowan brought me to tears. God bless you. My friends and I all wish you well, and think you are incredibly strong for telling your story. Thank you.
I’ll just leave the condemnation and ridiculous predictions of someone else’s future fate, of which you have no REAL knowledge of, to you and HisMan. :)
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) at October 28, 2008 5:02 PM
Condemnations?
I ask simple questions about people meeting in the dead zone of Heaven, and what a person that took the life of another by the pursuit of pleasure, might say to the one he killed by ignorance, or being unable to control their pursuit of pleasure given by God.
It’s a parable of abortion, little Liz.
If it is too emotional Liz, thinking about homosexuals and the deathsex they spread to each other, then make it what a person might do, and say to the person they killed by accident, and their meeting in heaven.
Why Hisman, nor I, are “FORCE(ing) anyone to be lead to Christ”.
But, your entertaining Liz, in avoiding questions, because you actually have decided psychologically and spiritually, that no one is denyed eternity with God. Simply because of the few recorded words of the Son of God telling you what is a right action, or what a wrong action is, in this life.
Come on Liz, I condemn homosexuals to what they desire. They desire the creation, not the Creator.
Is that condemnation Liz? Give um what they want,
the desire they really worshipped and believed in, forever and ever into Eternity. Is that not Heaven?
Their future, is their future, to wander about Heaven, or the trash dump(hell), thinking about the good Earthly days devoted to sexual pleasure. Remembering when they had a body and offering up their sexual pleasures to Jesus, if homosexual love is actually a rightous act, from and to God. Should homosexuals not offer up their sexual acts to Jesus, Liz? Yes or No. Is that not Heaven Liz for homosexuals?
Soo, Liz, are homosexual acts, a rightous act from God, which builds upon more sex, and more sex, until one becomes a Archangel of homosexual sex in Heaven when they die, and should be remembered on Earth by the body of Christ, via his places of worship(church), remembering and praying to a person who was the “greatest homosexual known to mankind”?
Now, remember Liz, it’s a parable,Christian abortion believers pray to the same Jesus as you do, and should remember and pray to the “greatest Christian abortionist known to mankind”.
Seems the Christian abortionist should erect a house of worship in rememberence to a great Christian theologian, such as Bishop Shori, or Bishop Gene Robinson.
Why Liz, you might be more comfortable praying to Jesus for more Christian homosexuals in the church named; “St. Gene the Great, Homosexual of Jesus”.
To modern?
So Liz, what are you doing here, denying on one hand, Christians that pray to the same Jesus that you do, for a rightous, God approved abortion, and condemning those actions, while defending homosexuals that are a parable of abortion?
Both are united in the common bond of loving the creation and not the Creator.
Tell me Liz, is a homosexual act, a sin against, which pains, which offends, which drives another nail into the body of Jesus, or not?
Since you are the resident expert on homosexuals Liz, do homosexuals think their homosexual acts are a sin against Jesus?
Come on Liz, answer the questions and make a rational argument to those questions asked you.
HisMan quoted Scripture. The Bible. The book that, as Christians, we’re supposed to believe.
You mean that book that has several different interpretations and MANY religions stemming from those different interpretations? Oh okay, I could see how one could throw some Scripture out there and that would be that considering we all interpret it the SAME. (not)
Also Kel, I didn’t imply that YOU were a homophobe. I implied that HisMan was a homophobe..and I firmly believe he is one. Anyone who has to call gays perverted wimps so that he can feel better than them is a homophobe to me. Okay? That’s my opinion, I’m entitled to it, you don’t have to agree with it.
And wouldn’t it THEN be true that if we ALL didn’t repent for ALL our sins, then we’re all going to Hell? Isn’t that the POINT? So why do we have such an emphasis on homosexuals? Because their sin is so much more out there than ours? I don’t think so.
And I say omg teh gayzzz because I’m mocking HisMan. It’s the only way I know how to handle someone like him without losing control of myself and flying off the handle. So I make a little funny here and there. Sorry.
And lastly, I don’t know about you, but the first time I’ve ever met any of my gay friends, they’ve never opened with “I’m gay.” In fact, my lesbian roommate never even told me she was gay, even though I knew she was. So the gays I have met don’t do that, maybe the ones that you know or have seen portrayed on TV do. But that has not been my experience, and I was a musical theatre major in college, so there was no shortage of gays in my field of study. :)
One more thing Kel,
I have no problem if people feel personally a certain way about homosexuals. I will never agree, but they are entitled to their own opinions. WHAT I have a problem with, which HisMan seems to be obsessed with doing lately, is throwing homosexual out there like it relates in any way to abortion or pro-life issues. It does not. So every time he’s going to bring it up and throw it out there with abortion/being pro-life, I am going to counter it. Because I feel it is important that people who come here who are new need to know that not ALL of us spout awful things about gays, and don’t even agree with HisMan, but are STILL pro-life.
Because their sin is so much more out there than ours? I don’t think so
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) at October 29
Is abortion no more out there than breaking the word of God as expressed in “thou shalt not steal”?
You mean that book that has several different interpretations and MANY religions stemming from those different interpretations? Oh okay, I could see how one could throw some Scripture out there and that would be that considering we all interpret it the SAME. (not)
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) at October 29
And so we have the principle/beginning of “moral relativism” being actually from “bible readers” and the personal interpretations of the bible.
After five hundred years and millions of personal theologians, trying to justify their vices as virtue, you arrive at the person known as Liz, defending nothingmore then vice for Jesus.
Which is also the basis, of “biblical moral relativism”, and how abortion became a virtue of Christians also. Read your bible, and justify before Jesus your killing his creation in the womb.
WHAT I have a problem with, which HisMan seems to be obsessed with doing lately, is throwing homosexual out there like it relates in any way to abortion or pro-life issues.
Because they are related. Abortion, homosexualism, are connected by deathsex.
They are related as a parable.
In the end Liz, you have no rational reason for being against abortion, you just think you do.
In the end Liz, you have no rational reason for making a vice a entry into heaven either, you just think you do.
Come on Liz, answer the questions asked of you. Defend your Christian ideas which are no more then your personal proclivities for vice, and defend your Jesus who loves the acts of homosexuals.
And if Jesus doesn’t love those sexual acts of homosexuals, then he must be a homophobe too. Right Liz?
Philosophically, your defending evil, which is a “lack of good”, and your defence of vice is the same defence that abortionist use as their apologetics for abortion.
“HisMan quoted Scripture. The Bible. The book that, as Christians, we’re supposed to believe.”
You mean that book that has several different interpretations and MANY religions stemming from those different interpretations? Oh okay, I could see how one could throw some Scripture out there and that would be that considering we all interpret it the SAME. (not)
****************************************
Do you consider yourself to be a Christian? Perhaps I misunderstood you, or just made the assumption that you were. If so, I apologize.
In any case, we’re not only talking about the Old Testament here, HisMan quoted the writings of Paul, who wrote the largest portion of the New Testament.
People like to interpret Scripture how they wish for largely self-serving purposes. If they can find a loophole (in their opinion) through which to justify their own sinful behavior, they will do it. Such is sinful human nature. But God isn’t mocked.
I have a testimony here by a man named Matthew C. Manning. Here’s a site where you can watch it if you’d like:
http://www.matthewcmanning.com/media.asp#toptext
(The homosexual establishment has chosen to vilify this man for being an “ex-gay.” No surprise. People don’t ever like to hear that we are “sinners” who need to turn from our sins and trust in the grace of Jesus Christ. We never want to hear that there’s a way out, because our sin feels “natural”–it is–and so much easier.)
“And wouldn’t it THEN be true that if we ALL didn’t repent for ALL our sins, then we’re all going to Hell? Isn’t that the POINT? So why do we have such an emphasis on homosexuals? Because their sin is so much more out there than ours? I don’t think so.”
That’s it, you’re absolutely right. But my question remains…why do THEY place such an emphasis upon it? They are the ones who have parades about their sex acts through city streets, not heterosexuals. What is the point of that? They’ve made themselves into a specialized minority class based on a sex act. Rapists could do the same, since that’s the way they have sex (and they believe they cannot help it…some have even said they were “born to rape”), and so could those who practice bestiality, or pedophilia, etc.
The truth is, we all have a condition, and we’re all born with it: sin. In my family, the sin of overeating happens to play a very large role among all members (just being honest here), and I myself struggle to overcome this. I don’t know why it’s my particular cross to bear, it just is.
In one of my friend’s families, the sin of excessive alcohol consumption happens to be prominent. Does that mean we should just say, “Hey, you’re happier stuffing yourself or drinking yourself into oblivion, so go for it! Even though it will lead to your own death/destruction and affect lives around you, we don’t believe those things are really sin.” Of course we don’t. We try to get HELP for these issues.
But the sin of homosexuality isn’t viewed the same way, though it SHOULD be. When anyone suggests “help” for that particular sin issue, they are lambasted as being “intolerant bigots.”
I could just as easily argue that I was “born this way” and I “can’t help my condition of overeating.” But common sense really needs to prevail. It might feel impossible to me as I struggle against my fleshly desires, but Christ has proven that with His help, it is not impossible. In the same way, it is not impossible for those who struggle with other sins, including that of homosexuality.
I have seen some in the Christian community who view this sin as larger than others. I am not one of those people. Yet I do not think we should turn a blind eye to it, either (because we as Christians know the Cure). If we refuse to offer them the Cure because we either don’t think it’s something they need or because we’re too afraid to be labeled as bigots, then we are not at all compassionate. We are to speak the truth in love. I know that many in the church have not spoken in love, and that must be remedied. But to accept the sin and bless it as being godly is not beneficial to anyone.
I posted this and it was, legitimately, deleted because I hadn’t put a name in. Anon posts are annoying, and I’d assume that’s why it was deleted, so sorry for the confusion.
Wasn’t there someone posting a while back about this video, and how the woman in it was tricked somehow into giving the story, or hadn’t given permission to use her name, or something along those lines? Jill deleted the posts; they were pretty difficult to decipher anyway, but they were gone when I next checked the blog. So, what’s going on here? Is Jan the woman the video refers to and the other woman, who I believe went by the SN of Angel, was fake? Or are these two completely different videos?
HS,
I am the woman portrayed in the movie 22weeks, I am Rowan’s mom.
The deleted and somewhat difficult to decipher posts are of no consequence now. Yes there was an issue…but it is resolved.
I hope that answers your question.
Thanks,
a
Kel, such nice posts.
What was the issue? I’m glad to know I’m not completely missing something, but now my curiosity has been raised. Those posts were very, very angry, and I find it difficult to believe that so much has changed in the space of so few weeks.
Kel,
I am Catholic. But I will admit to you that I am constantly on a journey in my faith and trying to learn more. I have questions just like many other young people my age. Anyway, that does not take away from the fact that different religions interpret the Bible differently. Catholics aren’t Bible literalists as some other Christian denominations are. That may be why some literalists have problems with Catholics. When it comes to homosexuality, I really have no problem with it. Maybe it comes from my diverse lifestyle as being involved in the arts and meeting people from VERY different walks of life.
If somebody is struggling with homosexuality, and doesn’t want to continue with that lifestyle anymore because it has done bad things for their life, then I support them in their efforts to no longer remain in that life. If somebody is gay, and is completely fine with being gay, it’s completely fine to me. If God does not approve of it, then it is something that person will have to take up with God, not with me. I’m sure they know this as well, as their is no shortage of hatred for gays in this world telling them that God will send them to Hell. If God really has a problem with me showing compassion towards my gay friends or not constantly smiting them for being gay, well then God can take that up with me. Also, if someone is engaging in reckless activities, whether they be gay or straight, I would advise them as their friend that doing so is not a good thing for them. But as far as homosexuals engaging in a monogamous relationship and loving each other…nope..it doesn’t bother me.
As per your other points: Maybe gay people feel the need to have parades and proudly make themselves a spectacle because they have been so shunned by society, and just want to celebrate with each other. I don’t really know. Straight people haven’t been murdered, fired from their jobs, or beaten up for being straight. Gay people have, so maybe they just want to thumb their nose at people. While I can’t say that reasoning is something I agree with, I can certainly understand it.
As a straight person living in this society, it makes me absolutely infuriated about hate crimes against gays, and homophobia, so I can only IMAGINE how angry it makes a gay person. I also think homosexuality has nothing to do with abortion. Gays aren’t going out by the thousands every day to murder their unborn children..so leave them alone I say.
Anyway, this a reallly long post, but I hope I answered some of your questions or clarified my feelings on the issue for you. If I have not, feel free to ask more!
P.S.- I am appreciative of the ACTUAL DISCUSSION you have engaged in over this topic with me Kel. That would be why I have responded to your posts, and not Yllas’s. So, thanks. :)
JAN,
I would hesitate to give HA anymore info about what you already said has been resolved.
Just me wanting to protect you and Rowan. :)
Thank you Carla… I appreciate you looking out for us.
HA, Honestly, it does not matter at this point. It is resolved.
Thanks,
a
Hi again Elizabeth,
“If God really has a problem with me showing compassion towards my gay friends or not constantly smiting them for being gay, well then God can take that up with me.”
God has ZERO problem with you showing compassion! :) But one can show compassion, as Jesus did, by stating the truth in love and saying as He said to the woman in an illegitimate relationship: “Go and sin no more.” He did not condemn her to death, yet He expected that she would leave her life of sin after her life had been spared. I think the greatest thing that gay people need to know is that there is freedom for them, but it’s only in Christ (just like it is for all of us), if they’ll receive it and leave their life of sin. They need to know He LOVES them with an everlasting love…but just as God does not condone the sin of adultery, fornication, abortion, or even lying–God does not condone homosexuality.
In this life, we are faced with a choice: to take up our cross daily and follow Him, or to follow our own fleshly desires. I, and other Christians, hopefully strive to forsake those fleshly desires and follow after Christ. The whole idea of “putting on Christ” when we become Christians is that we become less and less ourselves and more like Him. We have to lose “our” lives to truly find life in Him.
“Maybe gay people feel the need to have parades and proudly make themselves a spectacle because they have been so shunned by society, and just want to celebrate with each other. I don’t really know. Straight people haven’t been murdered, fired from their jobs, or beaten up for being straight. Gay people have, so maybe they just want to thumb their nose at people. While I can’t say that reasoning is something I agree with, I can certainly understand it.”
The problem is that parading around half naked on city streets and sometimes committing acts of indecency in public won’t exactly win over society. On one hand, they seem to want to be “accepted” and seen as “normal” by society, they want to be “married” to each other and to adopt children…but then they kind of shoot themselves in the foot by parading around screaming, “We’re here! We’re queer! Get used to it!” Ya know? But maybe that’s just how I see it.
By the way, EX-gays have been threatened, killed, fired, etc…it’s becoming more and more common. So apparently, right now it’s more acceptable to “come out” than it is to LEAVE that lifestyle.
I think that hate crimes against ANYONE are horrible. Do I think we should have special hate crimes legislation? No. I think that anyone committing such acts should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but hate crimes legislation is just too reminiscent of “thought crimes” for me.
I’m going to share this here, because I feel like I should: A few years ago, I was at my local Walmart behind a man in line and I looked at him and I knew that he was gay (don’t ask, I have no idea how I knew, lol…maybe it was his manner or appearance). You may think I’m nuts (I sure thought so at the time), but I clearly heard God speak in my heart “Tell him I love him.”
I froze. “Here? In LINE? Are you nuts, God?” :D That was going through my mind, of course. I saw the name on his checkbook and remembered it, and I was getting ready to open my mouth, but he swept up his groceries and walked out the door. I was kicking myself and felt just awful for not being braver. I mean, telling someone Jesus loves them…how hard is that?? Ha. I guess harder than one would think! ;)
Anyway, I remembered him and prayed for him for about three months or more. Then one day my husband wanted to go to the mall to look at cell phones, which wasn’t in our evening plans, and I didn’t want to go.
We got there, and guess who was the manager in the mall kiosk? Yup. Same guy from Walmart!! I started shaking, because I KNEW that God had given me a second chance to tell this young man that God really loved him. I thought for a second, “What is the big deal? He’ll probably think that’s so cheesy–‘Jesus loves you.’ What possible difference could that make?”
Anyway, after wresting mentally with God for a good ten minutes, I looked at my husband and he said, “Are you going to obey God this time?” :D *sigh* So, I walked to the booth and got the guy’s attention. I said, “This may seem really weird to you, but…I’m a Christian, and I believe God wants me to say something to you.”
Well, the man’s expression immediately turned cold, and I thought, “Oh no. Bad idea.” But I went ahead anyway. He said, “Oh, really?”
I said, “Yes. He wants me to tell you that He loves you, and there is freedom for you, but it’s only in Christ…and that you are precious to Him.”
What happened next stunned me…this man’s eyes welled up with tears and he practically lunged across the counter at me, grabbed me and hugged me and whispered, his voice shaking, “Thank you.”
This man may never know how God pursued him for months (at least) from the Walmart, and led me to him again, just to tell him something that he obviously desperately needed to hear. I still get weepy thinking about it…how merciful and loving our God is, and how He longs to set us all FREE from the chains of sin that bind us…and how He pursues all of us with a love beyond what we could ever dream.
Anyway…Elizabeth, I just want to see the homosexual community TRULY set free in Christ. I’m not trying to bash or humiliate anyone. It is possible to love someone and yet to not agree with their actions. (I am a parent, so I know it’s possible. :D)
Thanks for the discussion. :)
P.S.-Thanks, Bethany. :)
I love you, Kel. Wonderful post.
Love you, too, Carla! :) And thanks.
“Some of it may be as you say, but I see a good bit of it as really wanting (being desperate?) to just “be against” somebody.”
What in the world are you talking about, Doug???? Do you think we have nothing better to do with our time, so we look for PC’rs to pick on? You SO don’t get it.
Janet, the “not getting it” is you – I didn’t say that every pro-lifer was that way.
Psychologically, I’d say it comes from a need to solidify one’s position or convince oneself that they are “in the right,” so a construct is made, one that can be “the bad guy,” and then the individual is against the construct. Certainly doesn’t have to be about abortion, either, you see it all over the place.
A few years back, there was a woman online who had quite the crusade against “compressed .wavs” – .wav (sound) files, often humorous, widely traded among people. I never really found out what her objection to compressing the files versus sending them uncompressed was, but man, she was fired up about it. She had a “cause.”
Er, it’s not as though I particularly care where the person lives, or what the issues were. I’m curious. As there’s no way for me to verify that this person actually exists, or that the issues are resolved, my default stance is to disbelieve it anyway. Give me some proof or don’t, I don’t have any passionate reaction, but it’s pretty easy for someone to set up a fake identity on the internet and go about claiming to be someone else.
It’s not difficult at all, and in this case, I can see it happening. I’m not saying it is, I’m saying that I’m assuming a position of disbelieve until it’s proven true. I’m not some dangerous stalker trying to ruin whaserface’s life, but I would like some sort of substantiation of claims other than: “I say it’s true so it is.”
Human Abstract,
Why do you even care? If you’re not going to believe it, you’re not. It isn’t angele’s job to prove anything to you as she doesn’t know you from a whole in the wall. She said it’s resolved, and she seems to be in better spirits in her recent postings, so it’s resolved.
Kel,
Thank you for the discussion. And as for your story about the guy in WalMart, that was very touching! I can’t say I’ve ever felt like God was actually talking to me in that way, or maybe I did and didn’t know it. But it was wonderful you reached out to someone who you didn’t even know, and received such a good response. :)
Also Kel,
The people who infuriate me are not the people who are compassionate to gay people while still disapproving of their lifestyle. That’s fine. There are plenty of things people do that I don’t agree with but am still there for them. The people who infuriate me are HisMan and Yllas with their whole “deathsex” and “perverted wimps” in refernce to gays. It really just burns me when it’s done over and over and over again. That to me just propagate homophobia and ignorance about homosexuals. IMO of course.
Doug @ 1:06,
Phylosopher, I’ve seen it in the past – I think it starts with a candidate just being Pro-Choice and the next thing, be it Clinton, Kerry, Obama, etc., they’re the Antichrist….
Some of it may be as you say, but I see a good bit of it as really wanting (being desperate?) to just “be against” somebody.
“What in the world are you talking about, Doug???? Do you think we have nothing better to do with our time, so we look for PC’rs to pick on? You SO don’t get it.”
Psychologically, I’d say it comes from a need to solidify one’s position or convince oneself that they are “in the right,” so a construct is made, one that can be “the bad guy,” and then the individual is against the construct. Certainly doesn’t have to be about abortion, either, you see it all over the place.
A few years back, there was a woman online who had quite the crusade against “compressed .wavs” – .wav (sound) files, often humorous, widely traded among people. I never really found out what her objection to compressing the files versus sending them uncompressed was, but man, she was fired up about it. She had a “cause.”
Someone who knows there is moral truth does not need to create a construct because the truth is real, not an invention of the mind.
I recently heard someone on the radio call your way of thinking “secular Calvinism”. The legality of something is what makes it right or wrong. That pretty much sums it up for you, right?
Kel,
Thank you for the discussion. And as for your story about the guy in WalMart, that was very touching! I can’t say I’ve ever felt like God was actually talking to me in that way, or maybe I did and didn’t know it. But it was wonderful you reached out to someone who you didn’t even know, and received such a good response. :)
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriellas Momma) at October 30, 2008 4:29 PM
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It’d be great if I could say that I heard God speak to me that way ALL the time, but no. That’s why it’s so surprising to me when it happens (which isn’t often). More often, I find He speaks to me through His Word, through learning experiences in my life, and through the godly wisdom of those around me.
Also, I think maybe I’d “hear” His voice more clearly if I could learn to stop and take time to actually listen for it. Life has a way of cluttering up one’s thoughts, or at least I find it’s that way with me. ;)
A few years back, there was a woman online who had quite the crusade against “compressed .wavs” – .wav (sound) files, often humorous, widely traded among people. I never really found out what her objection to compressing the files versus sending them uncompressed was, but man, she was fired up about it. She had a “cause.”
Janet: Someone who knows there is moral truth does not need to create a construct because the truth is real, not an invention of the mind.
No, some people who believe that still create constructs too.
There certainly “is moral truth,” but it resides in the mind, in minds, not external to them.
…..
I recently heard someone on the radio call your way of thinking “secular Calvinism”. The legality of something is what makes it right or wrong. That pretty much sums it up for you, right?
No. In no way will I necessarily agree with a given law.
Doug,
No. In no way will I necessarily agree with a given law.
“Right or wrong”, meaning not just for you, but for anyone.
In other words, “as long as it’s legal, it’s a morally permissible choice”. Right?
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