Parties of death and their leaders
I’ve thought the world of Archbishop Raymond Burke for years for strongly upholding the sanctity of life wherever he served, one of too few stalwarts to refuse communion to known pro-abort politicians. I’ve been happy to see Burke rewarded for his steadfastness with a steady stream of promotions, most recently to Rome. From there Burke still strongly speaks, stating in a recent interview, “At this point, the Democratic Party risks transforming itself definitively into a ‘party of death’ due to its choices on bioethical issues.”
Burke was quoting from Ramesh Ponnuru’s book, The Party of Death: The Democrats, the Media, the Courts and the Disregard for Human Life.
Coincidentally, the banner ad at the top of my blog showcases Ponnuru as a speaker at next week’s Americans United for Life gala.
Ironically, AUL received this anonymous graphic in a response envelope, equating AUL, its new prez Charmaine Yoest, and Ponnunu with another party of death…
That makes sense: equating pro-lifers as killers. That’s the schtick these days, accusing the enemy of that for which they accuse you, no matter how ridiculous, or claiming you stand for exactly that for which your enemy stands.
Speaking of, I was reminded of yet another party of death leader when viewing this creepy video of children singing tribute to Barack Obama, entitled Dear Leader. (Watch it while you can. YouTube keeps pulling it.) Compare it to brainwashed “little potatoes” singing their allegiance to Lenin…
Confederate Yankee has a listing of the Hollywood types behind the brainwashed Obama babies video.
I’m happy to report even Obamamaniacs are unnerved by Dear Leader for its exploitation of children. Pro-lifers are creeped out because Obama aggressively stands for the “choice” of killing every child singing in that video prebirth.
Here’s a little video its creator Jamie emailed to me. In the middle is a cut of Obama speaking eugenically of the high rate of teen pregnancies in the Latina and African-American communities and the “good news… [of] the decline… in part due to the outstanding work of Planned Parenthood,” the United States’ largest abortion provider. I like Jamie’s jarring twist on the term “silent scream” at the end…
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Children singing to the “great leader”.
Shades of Josef Stalin and Hitler!
Maybe they should be singing “Obama” to the tune of “Hosanna”.
Jill, could you e-mail me these videos?
So I guess no conservatives are allowed into that school? Watching those brainwashed kids and their beaming parents makes me sick to my stomach :(
I suppose next we’ll have “Quotations of Chairman Obama”.
Jill,
this is chilling. Thanks for sharing.
Another Catholic calling abortion an “unspeakable evil” comes out to back Obama:
http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/an-antiabortion-catholic-suppr.html
And it seems only 6 sermons warranted complaints, at least according to the watchdog group that went over the sermons. Complaints were filed with the IRS, and it seems the majority of Americans don’t want churches discussing/endorsing candidates.
http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=358
The really pathetic thing about this is that this has been the same Democratic Party we’ve seen for the past 30 years. Ever since I’ve been alive, the Democratic Party has been the same anti-American, anti-God, and anti-sanity Party of Death. Some of us realized it more quickly than others; I myself only recognized it for the first time back in 2001.
Barack Obama is nothing “new” – he’s the same old leftist Democratic Party nonsense, but he’s just more of an extremist about it.
Democrats have been promising “change” for 30 years. If elected, Obama will do nothing. He won’t even be able to enact his radical socialist economic policies because those policies would turn our current recession into a Depression. Actually, he’ll probably pull a Clinton – he’ll spend the first year of his presidency trying to do his thing economically, and it will fail miserably. Then he’ll have no choice but to go back to the conservative economic plan, just like Clinton did. And, just as in the case of Clinton, you leftist dingbats will mindlessly lap it up and talk about how great Obama is to throw all of his campaign promises in the trash. But I’ll be happy about it, absolutely, if Obama abandons economic insanity.
So, really, conservatives, we don’t have much to fear from Obama in terms of the economy. What we do have to worry about most of all is judges. If he can get away with it, he’ll nominate young radicals for lifetime positions on the courts. Expect at least two of the four ultra-liberals on the Supreme Court to retire soon after Obama is inaugurated. We must demand that the Senate reject any extremist activist judges.
“Ever since I’ve been alive, the Democratic Party has been the same anti-American, anti-God, and anti-sanity Party of Death.”
Party of Death, sure. But anti-American?
::yawn:: Wow, nothing to say about last night’s debate?
This “party of death” stuff is laughable.
Pro-choicers believe in letting doctors save women’s lives. Anti-choicers believe in letting women die along with their unwanted fetuses.
Pro-choicers believe in letting people use birth control to prevent abortion. Anti-choicers believe in discouraging birth control so people wind up having abortions.
Pro-choicers believe in assisted reproductive technology that allows couples to bring new lives in to the world. Anti-choicers don’t.
Pro-choicers believe in letting scientists and doctors save people’s lives with stem cells. Anti-choicers don’t.
It’s obvious which party is the party of death, and it’s not the Democratic party.
“Expect at least two of the four ultra-liberals on the Supreme Court to retire soon after Obama is inaugurated.”
There are no ultra-liberals left on the court. (and I’m not sure there ever were. Maybe Douglas.) It would be nice if our court didn’t go out of it’s way to protect corporations like Exxon from verdicts by juries.
Nicholas Cafardi’s “justification” for voting Obama proves that he’s nothing but a Democrat Party hack, just like about half of all the people in this country who call themselves Catholic. How perfect that his article appeared in the “National Catholic Reporter”, which is actually a Democrat publication, not a Catholic one.
The “Reporter” is fake; the “National Catholic Register” is a real Catholic paper. If you doubt me, go to the website of each one. The “Register” website is always covered with information about prayers, saints, and clergy. The “Reporter” website is all about how much George Bush sucks and why you should vote for Obama.
Just look at Cafardi grasping for incomprehensible reasons to vote for Obama. He says that McCain supports torture? Give me a break! McCain has a decades long record of opposing torture. He made one vote which could be interpreted as pro-torture, but he himself explained that he was NOT voting for torture. So yeah, let’s crucify McCain over that vote but ignore Obama’s long history of anti-life, pro-abortion, and pro-infanticide votes. Or, to be even more hypocritical about it, let’s accept Obama’s explanations for his NUMEROUS unacceptable votes but NOT accept McCain’s explanation for his ONE possibly unacceptable vote.
But I like Fr. Frank Pavone’s reply to the phony Catholic Nicholas Cafardi:
Cafardi bases his endorsement on two points — claiming the pro-life movement has “permanently” lost the abortion battle and saying voting for Obama can be justified on other political issues.
Pavone, the head of Priests for Life, tells LifeNews.com he takes exception to both claims.
“If you think the battle against abortion has been lost permanently, then you are asserting that the battle for America and civilization itself have been lost,” Pavone says. “So don’t trouble yourself one way or another about this election.”
“In a case like that, as the bishops state in Living the Gospel of Life, the American experiment would ‘no longer be worth conducting,'” Pavone says.
Pavone also rejects the view that Catholics can support Obama based on other issues apart from abortion — saying “this analysis overlooks the fact that permitting abortion makes the common good impossible.”
“You cannot be right on other issues while undermining their foundation,” Pavone says — expressing the notion that other rights and freedoms are worthless if someone is killed before birth via abortion.
Pro-life advocates say that Catholics like Cafardi need to be reminded just how pro-abortion Obama really is — that his policies will result in 35 more years of 50 million abortions with his pledge to only appoint pro-abortion judges to the Supreme Court.
Obama has promised to sign legislation that would overturn every pro-life law across the country and cause 125,000 more abortions a year.
http://www.lifenews.com/nat4389.html
Meanwhile back in the real world, polls show a strong shift for Obama in the swing states, meaning McCain must “run the table” to win.
“Pro-choicers believe in letting doctors save women’s lives. Anti-choicers believe in letting women die along with their unwanted fetuses.”
No pro-lifer advocates that. Pro-lifers advocate the protection of the life of the mother and her child. Pro-aborts advocate only the life of the mother. Stop lying.
“Pro-choicers believe in letting people use birth control to prevent abortion. Anti-choicers believe in discouraging birth control so people wind up having abortions.”
Pro-lifers do not advocate unplanned pregnancies. Pro-lifers advocate self-control and chastity outside of marriage. Catholic pro-life advocate National Family Planning within marriage. Stop lying.
“Pro-choicers believe in assisted reproductive technology that allows couples to bring new lives in to the world. Anti-choicers don’t.”
Pro-life believe in using infertility treatments to help couples have biological children, and believe in adoption. Stop lying.
“Pro-choicers believe in letting scientists and doctors save people’s lives with stem cells. Anti-choicers don’t.”
Pro-lifers believe in using adult stem cells, which have actually cured people, and not embryonic stem cells, which have yet to cure anyone. Stop lying.
Dan, from the first link:
While I have never swayed in my conviction that abortion is an unspeakable evil, I believe that we have lost the abortion battle — permanently.
I’m not Catholic, but isn’t that awfully close to despair? I mean it doesn’t deal with the soul of the speaker himself but it does indicate an active abandonment of hope, and giving up on God’s will. Surely that has to be at least somehow considered wrong.
Moreover, how does one permanently lose a battle like that? I mean unless every single child were aborted, thus rendering the issue (and all others) permanently settled.
I actually do think that pro-life people can vote in good conscience for Obama — I know several who are — but that sentence sounds like crap reasoning to me. The people I know are very clearly voting in spite of Obama’s stance on abortion because of his other positions, not because they’re throwing their hands up in the air about the whole abortion issue.
Honestly, the rest of the stuff he says sounds like what most pro-life Obama supporters I know agree with. They tend to feel that Obama will put into practice economic policies that will lower the pressures to abort, which will in the long term help create a culture that is more receptive to a challenge on the legality of abortion. That one quote jumped out at me, though. I mean, I know atheists who would consider it absurd to just say, “Well, the battle for gay marriage has been permanently lost” — and they don’t even believe in a force more powerful than a group of people all voting and working together.
You’re right, Anonymous – Cafardi is despairing. That seems to contradict Obama’s message of “Hope”, doesn’t it?
He’s saying that the battle for a Culture of Life is LOST. Of course, if it has indeed been lost, it would have been lost to people like Obama.
Therefore, by Cafardi’s justification, voting for Obama would be like voting for someone who just killed your family. Because, well, the battle to save your family has already been lost – why not vote for the person who killed your family? Especially if you like his health care plan.
Reality: ::yawn:: Wow, nothing to say about last night’s debate?
I had it on TV but was playing a computer game so didn’t pay much attention.
IMO it was a “wash.” Lots of people agree.
John L,
Thank you. Awesome post!
How about this one:
Pro-lifers advocate controlling the most intimate aspect of any human’s life (their sexuality) by limiting birth control, controlling who marries who, and forcing their religious beliefs with regards to family planning into the law the land.
Why the hell is who I sleep with and when any of your business?
Anon-
join up, Anon posts aren’t allowed. We don’t bite..usually ;)
As for losing the battle-
In terms of outlawing abortion across the nation-
Until technology develops to remove the fetus from the mother and keep the fetus alive until birth, abortion will reslult in the fetus’ death.
And until the technology develops, abortion as we know it will always be legal. Roe has stare, making it difficult to overturn on a legal basis. Second, if it is in fact overturned, it goes to states. There will always be some states with legalized abortion (again, until technology develops to please everybody). As long as people are able to travel, abortion numbers will not change. I’m sure if Roe is overturned orginizations such as PP will likely implement travel services so it is still an option for those most likely to get abortions, and states cant exactly ban transportation to get an abortion, as it would penalize the mother which a majority of pro lifers are against.
As for those voting for Obama despite the abortion position, I’m one of them. I dont consider the battle lost per se, nor is it my reasoning. However one can make an argument that until this country makes some scientific leaps, its going to be happening regardless. Sad, but true.
As for the battle for gay marriage, that is far from over. MA legalized it, I believe Cali has as well (for now) and I THINK VT is on its way to recognizing civil unions and out of state marriages as civil unions in their state.
The issue is much of the abortion has little to do with voting. It has to do with a movement that eases the cost, restrictions, etc many associate with pregnancy and pushing for the remove of the pregnancy stigma, etc. It has little to do with trickle down and more with rising up.
Reality: ::yawn:: Wow, nothing to say about last night’s debate?
Doug, that’s not the topic of the thread.
I had it on TV but was playing a computer game so didn’t pay much attention. IMO it was a “wash.” Lots of people agree.
Very compelling argument you have there.
Doug-
Any idea why Palin’s good and fair are inverted?
Doug-
nevermind, its ranked on percentages.
Doug, let’s not pile on. The Conservatives are licking their wounds this morning. Palin supports full equal rights (short of marriage) to gay partners. She avoided serious missteps, but didn’t change the game. Obama/Biden continue to rise in the polls. McCain, the King of Over-reaction, is likely to try another Hail Mary.
RCP has Obama with 264, McCain with 163 electoral votes.
If no toss-up states are left out, it’s
Obama 353, McCain 185.
Obama needs 270 to win, so even should McCain “run the table,” at this point Obama has almost got it in the bag.
Things can change fast, of course, and I keep thinking that McCain’s popularity will at least blip back up….
That video is very scary, but the thought of a Barak Obama dress isnt very encouraging either.
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/10/barack-obama-dr.html“
“I had it on TV but was playing a computer game so didn’t pay much attention. IMO it was a “wash.” Lots of people agree.”
Very compelling argument you have there.
Thank you, Janet. I’ve never been much interested in political speeches.
McCain, the King of Over-reaction, is likely to try another Hail Mary.
Hal, a month and a day until the Election, and for the past month McCain’s trend has been decidedly “down.” I was thinking that McCain’s people are gonna have to try something “big,” yeah….
Not saying that McCain will lose, but the evidence continues to mount.
Dan,
Please talk to a Catholic priest who follows the Magesterium of the Church before voting. Otherwise, you may regret your vote. Not that my opinion matters to you, but I think you take abortion too lightly. It’s like saying gang violence is never going to go away, so lets move on to another issue that we can make a difference with. If the Chief of Police in my city made a comment like that, I think you’d call it a cop-out (no pun intended).
Who are the “miracle workers” that Obama has in his ranks who will save our economy once he gets elected? Can you name names of these people you are basing your vote on? I really want to know who they are and what their plans are. Apparently Biden is going to be side-by -side with Obama all along the way for the next four years if Obama wins. He said that last night at the debate. Do you suppose the Dems felt forced to say that because they know he lacks the credibility to stand on his own?
Doug,
Sorry about my last comment. I’m a bit snarky today. :(
Janet, from Bloomberg:
May 10 (Bloomberg) — Senator Barack Obama portrays himself as a new kind of leader who transcends conventional politics. Judging by the economists he has enlisted in his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, he may just be.
Obama’s economic brain trust — a blend of up-and-coming academics and former officials in President Bill Clinton’s administration — displays a fondness for backing innovative solutions to the nation’s problems. Among them: offering ailing U.S. automakers aid in return for increased investment in hybrid cars and rewarding doctors for the improvements they make in patients’ health.
“They bring to the campaign some fresh thought on approaches that are non-status quo,” says Alan Blinder, a Princeton University economist and former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Obama, 45, is a freshman Illinois senator who, thus far, has been known more for soaring oratory than policy specifics. His surging candidacy, which has made him the chief rival to the Democratic frontrunner, Senator Hillary Clinton of New York, and the decision of many states to move up their 2008 primaries and caucuses, put pressure on Obama to begin filling in the blanks.
Three academics — Austan Goolsbee, 37, a University of Chicago professor and columnist for The New York Times, Jeffrey Liebman, 39, a pension and poverty expert at Harvard University, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and David Cutler, 41, a Harvard health economist — form the core of Obama’s economic team.
`Top-Notch Economists’
“They’re all top-notch economists,” said Greg Mankiw, a Harvard professor and former chief White House economist for President George W. Bush. “Their views are left of the political center, as one would expect, but only slightly.”
A trio of seasoned Washington hands bolsters the academics: Karen Kornbluh, policy director in Obama’s Senate office; Daniel Tarullo, a professor at Georgetown University in Washington, and a former senior economic adviser in the Clinton administration; and Michael Froman, the chief of staff for former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin who now works with his old boss at Citigroup Inc.
Obama’s economic cadre, like the candidate himself, is still evolving. The candidate is shopping for a big-name macro economist to join the group, perhaps one with the cachet of former Bush economist Glenn Hubbard, who recently joined the team of Republican candidate Mitt Romney.
It’s like saying gang violence is never going to go away, so lets move on to another issue that we can make a difference with.
Janet, I think that for most pro-life Obama supporters I know, it’s more like: Gang violence is bad, but you have someone who wants to put harsher prison sentences on gang members on one hand, and someone who wants to reform the reasons that people become gang members on the other. They don’t see it as giving up or moving on, just focusing on a separate approach to the problem. Most of the ones I know would prefer an anti-Roe candidate who had Obama’s social and economic plans, if they had their pick. But they don’t.
Oh, the Anonymous was me, by the way, Dan. Sorry! And I don’t have an intense interest in seeing Roe overturned so it’s not like I’m saying that the guy is going to hell or anything. I just thought it was really odd to say that anything is permanently lost, especially if you believe that God is on your side.
I know many people who want to see Roe overturned but don’t think that our current culture will respond positively to efforts to do so until we make some other changes first — so it’s not like I don’t understand that point of view. Kind of like how I knew pro-lifers who opposed the last SD abortion ban because they thought it was too early to bring the issue before the Supreme Court, and felt that doing so would have only further solidified Roe as legal precedent.
Human Abstract,
Pro-lifers want to control who you have sex with and when? Good to know.
*eyeroll*
I as a pro-lifer actually just want people to stop murdering their children. End of story. Have sex with whoever you want to, just don’t kill your unborn kids.
I and other pro-lifers like me (www.godlessprolifers.org) will not be ignored, HumanAbstract.
I do not care if you are gay.
I do not care if you want no children, good on ya.
I do not care if you have a god or not. I don’t.
I JUST WANT THE LEGAL KILLING OF ALL THOSE LIVING HUMANS IN THE WOMB TO END. THAT. IS. ALL.
Jill:
The unforgivable sin of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the sin of so often and so consistently refusing God’s will that in the end it cannot be recognized. It’s usually expressed by people who demonize good.
All we can do is keep showing love and light to those that hate us and maybe, just maybe in that they will see the light.
Abortion is an affront to the creative nature of God, it negates God as Creator,
Abortion denies the power of God to right a wrong, it negates God as Redeemer,
Abortion makes that which is good, the birth of human life, into that which is evil, the death of human life, and then calls it good, the very definition of blasphemy,
Abortion negates the resurrection power of God as it takes flesh that is alive in it’s earthly abode (the womb) and kills it, while God takes that flesh which is dead in it’s earthly abode (the grave) and desires to make it alive,
Abortion’s desire is to take that which was composed from the chaotic array of elemental molecules into a symphony of life infused with an eternal soul, and turn it back to the entropy of randomness, chaos, nothingness, uselessness.
Abortion is against all that is hopeful, all that requires faith for success; for it’s solution; annihilation, it’s goal; death, it’s dream; breaking God’s heart, it’s vision, Satan’s ultimate power.
Abortion is a counterfeit, for the clawprints of Satan are everywhere to be found in its performance;
Abortion disguises hate as love, bondage as freedom, choice as maturity, sin as righteousness, political correctness as wisdom,
Abortion pits men against women, mothers against their children, fathers against God, Yes, abortion is Satan’s feeble attempt at killing God Himself, for abortion is a metaphor for Satan; it is his coat of arms, his family crest, his logo, his brand, it belongs to him……for he laughs at its willing proponents as they craft their own self-destruction, mantled in self-deception.
Copyright 2007, 2008 by HisMan
Sorry about my last comment. I’m a bit snarky today.
Janet, truly – no problem, and Hal’s point about not piling on is well-taken.
I’m not all that sure he was serious, though….
Speaking of not being serious (?), here’s a funny one, though lots of PROFANITY involved, so don’t watch this 73 second video if you can’t take the “F” word.
Jasper, I figure you’ll like this one.
“Bat Day”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp5rBiP15Dk
But Alexandra, many Obama supporters are ignoring that McCain DOES support other means of changing the culture. He just thinks it should be done PRIVATELY by CITIZENS rather than government. Given the current debacle in congress, I don’t see how anyone can argue with the position. Did you watch the presidential debate? McCain went on at length about the good works that can be and are accomplished through large non-profit orgs.
Yeah, x, I did see it. My point wasn’t meant to be in support of Obama but just to point out that the pro-lifers I know who are voting for him don’t seem to be abandoning the issue of abortion, as Janet suggested they were. They see where he and McCain differ on addressing the root causes, which they think are key to eventually criminalizing it — and they think for a variety of reasons that Obama will be more effective. Whether they’re right or wrong is another issue entirely.
Another Catholic calling abortion an “unspeakable evil” comes out to back Obama:
http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/an-antiabortion-catholic-suppr.html
Posted by: Dan at October 3, 2008 12:00 PM
Another fine example of a lawyer rationalizing his decision to promote or do evil.
Thanks Dan!
Doug: all the press up here is stating that Palin looked very good. She seemed to appeal to Canadian’s (who aren’t voting, I know) and the press seems to think that at the very least she held her own, with a folksy, yet savvy attitude.
Well, well, well,
What have we here. At least seven felons, convicted of crimes including cocaine possession and robbery, were recruited in Milwaukee by The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN). No law-abiding citizens could be found and recruited?
All were designated as special registration deputies, which allows them to solicit and keep voter registration applications before turning them in to local election officials. There is a concern about voter fraud.
This group describes itself as the nation’s largest grass-roots community organization of low and moderate income people.
This is the same organization Obama worked for and which has been sited in the past for voter fraud. Sounds like they need to do a little more housecleaning.
BTW, Hal, are you posting from your car?
WE can’t do anything about the video.
It’s just okey if the children are brainwashed.
What is not okey is the fact that many adults have been brainwashed by Obama. That’s sad.
Let’s vote already. Sheesh.
Patricia, no. Not the car today. I’m yacthing.
Alexandra,
My gang analogy was a direct comment to Dan’s giving up on the abortion issue, not a characterization of the average pro-life Obama supporter. After reading your “Anonymous” comment, I can say we are pretty much in agreement.
Let’s vote already. Sheesh.
Posted by: Carla at October 3, 2008 1:58 PM
Not yet Carla! There are too many great stories yet to be uncovered.
Did you read Mary’s comment @ 1:43 about ACORN in Milwaukee?
How can people continue to support Obama when his associations become more questionable every day?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Hal, Interesting article, but I’m sorry to say I’m not encouraged by Obama’s choices of economic advisors, more a gut feeling than anything else. Many of the names have probably changed since May when the article was written. At that point it stated that Obama was still looking for a Macro economic advisor. Has he found one? That’s probably the most critical decision he needs to make in terms of economic policy for his administration, IMO. The economic crisis needs to take precedence over everything else. A plan has been approved, but making sure we are dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s will be the most difficult part in the next several years.
Patricia, no. Not the car today. I’m yacthing.
Hal, like this?
Janet-
I don’t agree with the lawyer’s view on the abortion issue (that it was lost) I said that in my post. I was simply playing devil’s advocate saying the case could be made.
I’m more interested in ending it via programs to help promote giving brth, easing the strains of motherhood/pregnancy on low-income families, etc. As I said on my blog’s “Conversion Factor” post, it’s unlikely either side will really have my vote for whatever reason until I feel this country actually has addressed the root cause of abortion rendering it obsolete or unnecessary (as we know it) via technological advances.
Janet-
I don’t agree with the lawyer’s view on the abortion issue (that it was lost) I said that in my post. I was simply playing devil’s advocate saying the case could be made.
I’m more interested in ending it via programs to help promote giving brth, easing the strains of motherhood/pregnancy on low-income families, etc. As I said on my blog’s “Conversion Factor” post, it’s unlikely either side will really have my vote for whatever reason until I feel this country actually has addressed the root cause of abortion rendering it obsolete or unnecessary (as we know it) via technological advances.
At least seven felons, convicted of crimes including cocaine possession and robbery, were recruited in Milwaukee by The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN).
Mary, an acorn, while indeed an oak, is not a tree.
From Milwaukee itself….
Patricia: Doug: all the press up here is stating that Palin looked very good. She seemed to appeal to Canadian’s (who aren’t voting, I know) and the press seems to think that at the very least she held her own, with a folksy, yet savvy attitude.
P, I think she did well – better than McCain against Obama.
The AOL poll I saw gave her a slight lead in the debate performance. I know, I know – AOL polls, but still, this was over 200,000 people voting.
CNN Biden 51 Palin 36
CBS Biden 46 Palin 21
Fox Biden 61 Palin 39
Non-random (unscientific) polls on AOL and MSNBC web sites show Biden winning 48 to 45 and 78.6 to 18.9 respectively.
http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2299
Dan, your position is like saying that murder during a robbery is ok, at least until everyone has as much money as they need. Ridiculous and unacceptable.
Dan, I feel like I’m spinning my wheels on this thread. I assumed you agreed with the article you linked to because you didn’t state otherwise. Although you said you don’t think the abortion issue is lost, your prior points don’t support that opinion. So why (again) is abortion not the issue for you? If you want to make abortion rare, as I assume you do. How is Obama going to do anything to make that happen?
Mary, an acorn, while indeed an oak, is not a tree.
But the very second that that acorn BEGINS TO GROW, it IS a tree…the very second.
May, 2007. Many present-day bioethical arguments, although intellectually fashionable and trendy, nevertheless remain flawed in their reasoning. An impressive example of this can be seen in a recent Boston Globe article by Professor Michael Sandel, who teaches at Harvard. He begins with a reasonable analogy between acorns and embryos, but quickly confuses his terms and ultimately draws an incorrect conclusion:
“…although every oak tree was once an acorn, it does not follow that acorns are oak trees, or that I should treat the loss of an acorn eaten by a squirrel in my front yard as the same kind of loss as the death of an oak tree felled by a storm. Despite their developmental continuity, acorns and oak trees differ. So do human embryos and human beings, and in the same way. Just as acorns are potential oaks, human embryos are potential human beings.”
The error in this passage can be summarized simply: embryos are not potential human beings; rather, they are human beings with potential. Embryos are potential taxpayers, potential pianists and potential bank robbers, but the only reason they have all that remarkable potential (and so much more besides) is because of what they already are, namely, human beings.
http://www.ncbcenter.org/FrTad_MSOOB_23.asp
a sapling is just a very young tree. it is still a tree, despite the term “sapling” being applied.
After the Obama and McCain debate, one of the polls showed something like 75% Obama and 25% McCain. Afterwards we learned that only 20% of those who voted in it were actually Americans.
And if you want to list all of the polls, why not list the Drudge Report’s poll, which had over half a million people vote in it and has Palin at 70% and Biden at 28%?
Wow. Did you guys know Obama is actually pro-life? Where have we been misled?
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/455982.aspx
Yep, Obama is pro-life! And McCain fought for the Nazis in the Civil War while napalming Santa Claus’ workshop when he was 50 years old, back in 1776.
Drudge, ha. That’s like polling PA Watercooler.
The non-scientific polls don’t matter at all. The scientific polls matter only a little.
John L, why did Gov. Palin lie about the Sudan?
“I walked out of that hearing livid,” Gara recalled of the February meeting. Because of the Palin administration’s opposition to the bill, “We could not get a vote in that committee,” he explained.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5948944&page=1
Nah, polling Drudge is more like polling CNN or MSNBC.
Hal, why did Biden lie 22 times?
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTVhMThlNjRkZGFlMmUwOWFkNDZkZjk0MzBiY2JiYmY=
John L 3:56PM
Do you study from the same history book as Joe Biden? :)
Mary, if anybody knows history, it’s Joe Biden. Joe Biden knows who was president when The Great Depression started. Joe Biden knows when TV was invented. Joe Biden knows what Article I of the US Constitution deals with. Joe Biden knows all about how we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon. Yes, if there’s one thing Joe Biden knows, it’s history.
Yes, John, Biden once said “TV” when he meant “radio.” Because of that, he should not be elected.
Hal,
Of course he meant radio when he said TV and he certainly meant President Hoover when he said President Roosevelt, who wasn’t elected for another 3 years.
Right, Hal. Because that’s the only mistake/lie Biden has ever made/told.
Interesting sidelight: Louis Farrakhan calls Obama “The Messiah” at about minute 8 of this video:
The remark comes at about minute 8 in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT9nYjqTL10
but how many minutes before Ferrakhan calls Obama The Messiah? 8?
Farrakhan, the racist anti-semite. Didn’t Obama’s minister issue him some kind of award? I’m sure Obama is as blissfully ignorant of this as he is as to what his minister said, even though Obama sat in the pews for 20 years.
Mary, if anybody knows history, it’s Joe Biden. Joe Biden knows who was president when The Great Depression started. Joe Biden knows when TV was invented. Joe Biden knows what Article I of the US Constitution deals with. Joe Biden knows all about how we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon. Yes, if there’s one thing Joe Biden knows, it’s history.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at October 3, 2008 4:11 PM
AND, apparently Joe Biden is an authority on the teachings of the Catholic faith (his faith) and of course has correctly informed his conscience of such teachings….
John Lewadowski: “why did Biden lie 22 times?”
SG: It doesn’t matter … Listeners perceived him as more competent. Joe makes them ‘feel’ safer than Sarah.
Sne(r)d
Mary, an acorn, while indeed an oak, is not a tree.
But the very second that that acorn BEGINS TO GROW, it IS a tree…the very second.
Posted by: mk at October 3, 2008 3:17 PM
not only that mk, it has all the DNA of an acorn tree
it develops into an acorn tree the same way we DEVELOP from fertilized egg to zygote to blastocyst to fetus to 2 month old baby to toddler, to adolescent to mature adult to elderly adult….
our DNA stays the same, all that is us was there from the beginning – our eye colours, our personality, our height, our soul…..
Hal is arguing from a functionalist point of view…a person is only deemed aperson based on his/her level of functioning…
I think the Nazi’s had similiar ideas….
Here’ what Sarah was up against:
Obama/Biden …. 264 ….. 171 Solid …. 93 Leaning
McCain/Palin ….. 163 …… 158 Solid …. 5 Leaning
Toss Up ………….. 111
She did stop the hemo(R)(R)haging but did nothing to change these numbers…
Snerd
“Hal is arguing from a functionalist point of view…a person is only deemed a person based on his/her level of functioning…”
I think you meant Doug. I haven’t had anything interestng to say today. Just changing the subject and enjoying the post debate bump.
You pro-aborts keep saying that you have a whole new set of polls which show the state of the election post-VP debate? That’s funny; RealClearPolitics doesn’t have ANY polls listed for today. It’ll be a few days before we will see the effect of the VP debate on the polls, if there is any.
“I think you meant Doug.”
You gotta admit, it’s hard to tell the difference. I think you might be the same person. I know you are in my mind.
Ya, for once your right Hal, but it might as well have been you writing it.
Oh actually your right a second time too –I haven’t had anything interestng to say
keep driving around the block in that car of yours…..
Doug is much nicer. And has more inteligent things to say.
as for polls,I was talking about polls about the debate, not the effect on the election. I doubt the debate will be a game changer in any way. Obama’s drift upwards will continue or level off.
Here’s the only poll I could find today:
10/03 New Hampshire Obama +5.8
P.S.
President Obama is going to save a lot of babies.
Oh… my… God… reality and Hal, you people are such complete frauds. I think I would shoot myself in the head if I was as dishonest as you are.
THIS ISSUE MUST GET OUT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!
Please Spread This Far and Wide!!!!
Berg Confident Obama & DNC Motion To Dismiss Will Be Defeated
http://www.obamacrimes.com/
Obama IS NOT QUALIFIED to be US President!!!
Our website obamacrimes.com has received 17.1 + million hits. We are urging all to spread the word of our website – and forward to your local newspapers and radio and TV stations.
ty James,
Obama doesn’t have smooth sailing ahead!
“In the middle is a cut of Obama speaking eugenically of the high rate of teen pregnancies in the Latina and African-American communities and the “good news… [of] the decline… in part due to the outstanding work of Planned Parenthood,” the United States’ largest abortion provider.”
ObamaNation
I can’t remember how Hitler came to power(not sure if it was covered in History class) but Obama thanking Planned Parenthood for ‘reducing teen birth rate’ is very scary.
Rita, you first.
Love, John
Question: Do we need to wait until after the inauguration to begin the impeachment of Obama, or can it start immediately after the election is over?
Ah, Rita – you’re a breath of fresh air on this board full of dishonest liberal trash. You’re honest enough to wish death on me. And I must say, I respect that very much. Kudos to you.
John L: McCain fought for the Nazis in the Civil War while napalming Santa Claus’ workshop when he was 50 years old, back in 1776.
Oh come on – he’s WAY older than that….
Yeah…everyone knows it was the Battle of Hastings!
Let’s just rip the mask off of this conspiracy of silence – everybody knows that John McCain enslaved the Hebrews in Ancient Egypt. At about the same time, he invented the Y2K Bug, Solent Green, and Barney the Dinosaur.
Reality 5:37PM
Will this be before or after he heals the planet and lowers the level of the oceans?
John, the only person sick enough, and evil enough to invent Barney the Dinosaur was Hitler.
And with that, I’ve done-gone pulled a Godwin.
Rita’s comments removed.
Dang, Jasper. Where’s the fun in that?
don’t usually use Wikipedia, but it says that Hitler had charismatic oratory
Hmmm, sounds like Obama to me. And instead of Jews, he wants to continue to exterminate the unborn.
“Dang, Jasper. Where’s the the fun in that?”
Yea..I suppose Rita should be left exposed for how she thinks…quite despicable comments.
Dear All:
Just thought I’d give everyone an update (that knows what’s been going on in my life)
Papa slipped into a coma Thursday morning. I arrived at my parent’s house at 3:13-ish this afternoon and held his hand. One minute later he passed.
Thank you for everyone’s thoughts and prayers through out the months; it’s really meant a lot to me.
I’m watching priests for life on EWTN and they have a running tally of the world-wide abortions commited during that episode.
It’s up 2200 abortions in 20 minutes…
Midnite,
I’m sorry about your Papa..
May God welcome him with open arms…
Hey Jasper, I just sent you an email if you could check it out, please.
Midnite-
I’m sorry to hear about your loss. You’ll remain in my thoughts and prayers.
X and Elizabeth, I was specifically respond to John L.’s post. I’m aware but not all pro-lifers are like that, but then are all pro-choicers exactly as John described?
X-
No, my position is saying all life must be promoted protected in a way such that abortion becomes obsolete/unnecessary/etc, also taking into account limiting (though preferably ending) the death penalty, helping low-income mothers/families, further sex ed with an emphasis on abstinence, and investing in the technology to help render abortion as we currently know it as obsolete.
that stuff is all well and good, dan, but I think saying that all life should be protected rings hollow if you’re not willing to go that extra mile and also say that elective abortion should be considered a criminal act. Like, yeah, it’s wrong, yeah, it’s taking a life, but that life isn’t good enough to be protected by law until its mom gets her stuff straight. How does that make any sense?
Hey Dan,
Just thought you should know you should check out your link for your blog..i think you may have written a comma in there when you wrote the web address cause it took me to a search page when i clicked your name!
Midnite,
I’m so sorry. :( I will be praying for you and your family.
Human Abstract,
I in now way think that all pro-choicers are the same. There are of course the extremists within any mindset, and then there are people who are more moderate and willing to compromise. Contrary to what you may think about pro-lifers, I don’t see things in all black and white, beeeelieve me I don’t. I’ve experienced the whole unplanned pregnancy drama and know what the feelings that go along with that are. I just happen to come to a different conclusion on the issue than you because of my experience with it.
Elizabeth-
Thanks, all fixed :)
X-
I think it should be banned eventually, but it needs to be worked at via treating the cause, not just an outright immediate ban.
Hi midnite: I’m sorry about the loss of your papa.
May he rest in peace and may you be consoled.
Midnite, I’m sorry to hear about your dad. That is a very heavy thing.
Sorry Midnight. Let it all out.
Your Papa met a loving and merciful heavenly Father who loves him more than we could imagine.
Isaiah 49:
15 “Can a mother forget the baby at her breast
and have no compassion on the child she has borne?
Though she may forget,
I will not forget you!
16 See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me.
midnight, I know we don’t know each other very well, but for what it’s worth, you have my condolences.
Midnite,
I am very sorry to hear of your Papa’s passing. My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family.
that is why, dan, when advocating a personhood amendment/bill/whatever, stuff like adoption reform and the other things you mentioned would be included, otherwise, the move would only end up garnering support from hardliners, and would fail. If provisionslike that were included, would you support such a measure?
x-
provisions as such are unlikely to get into an amendment. the detail I would want would be unlikely be in a single amendment, it would take a slew of laws and successful programs.
If somehow it is able to do all that than yes, but it is HIGHLY unlikely. I’m detailed obsessed if you havent noticed when it comes to law, religion etc ;)
…….in a recent Boston Globe article by Professor Michael Sandel, who teaches at Harvard………….”…although every oak tree was once an acorn, it does not follow that acorns are oak trees, or that I should treat the loss of an acorn eaten by a squirrel in my front yard as the same kind of loss as the death of an oak tree felled by a storm. Despite their developmental continuity, acorns and oak trees differ. So do human embryos and human beings, and in the same way. Just as acorns are potential oaks, human embryos are potential human beings.”……………
Posted by: mk at October 3, 2008 3:22 PM
____________________________
Did an Oak Tree ever experience the throes of a crisis pregnancy? Did the mighty Oak ever feel the acorn kick? Did the tree ever have morning sickness? And can squirrels be considered abortionists? Does this mean that SoMG is a squirrel? This too, this guy can’t be a tree hugger and a Liberal simultaneously can he? I mean he’s anti-acorn….. after all?
Professor Michael Sandel actaully gets paid for his insane reasoning? Harvard has just too, too much money to waste. Perhaps there’s a silver lining in this economic crisis after all as I’m sure that Haaaaaaaaavad Endowment Fund lost a few billion last week. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
This guy is living, walking, talking, breathing proof of Proverbs 1:7 which states “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline” since he has neither the fear of the Lord or knowledge.
Sow, reap, sow, reap, sow reap…..sow Liberalism, reap Harvard Professors.
the we don’t have a problem and can be BFFs. ^_^
“charismatic oratory”
Uh, oh, I heard that MLK used charismatic oratory. Good thing someone shot him.
Seriously? Charismatic oratory is actually a good thing. Just because Hitler exploited it doesn’t mean that every charismatic orator is the next Hitler.
I also heard he used drugs–uh oh, I guess all of our inane celebrities are on track to be the next Hitler as well.
Hitler’s youth were taught to be healthy, take care of their bodies, stop drinking coffee and alcohol, get 9 hours of sleep, etc.
Our USDA better watch out.
Midnite,
I am so sorry to hear of Papa. I will be thinking of you and praying for you in your sorrow. God bless you.
screw charismatic oratory. I’d rather have a repulsive, babbling stutterer that does the right thing and protects their people. If Obama is elected, I’m ready for the following hardship. I’ll just move back here to AR permanently, barter for livestock and grow a garden. Everyone who is dumb enough to vote for the form-over-substance empty suit that is Obama deserves what they get.
“screw charismatic oratory. I’d rather have a repulsive, babbling stutterer that does the right thing and protects their people.”
Amen X.
Hitler also was admired by the founder of Planned Parenthood.
That’s what I am talking about.
And if Martin Luther King, Jr was alive today, he’d be siding with his prolife brothers and sisters. He’d be outraged at the amount of abortions that blacks have (3 times the amount that white women have).
Maybe I should have said that Obama is a ‘smooth talker’ and reminds me of a certain serpent in a Garden.
Liz,Jasper, and X,
Tyrants are great orators. Cult leaders are great orators. Dangerous sociopaths are smooth and charasmatic talkers.
That’s what make all these people so dangerous, and successful.
You’re right, Mary. Look at the people who follow that insane Fred Phelps or who followed David Koresh. *shudders*
I can even think of a certain fictional character from a certain movie series that I LOVE: Palpatine. Palpatine convinced people that Jedi were the Tyrants.
Liz,you missed my point. I wasn’t talking about abortion here just the idea that someone is “scary” if they are a great speaker. Sure, some bad people exploit that skill for their own gain, but some of the greatest people in history were great orators.
But I can understand if you really did mean “smooth talker,” because it references an aspect of his speaking in a different way than saying he is bad because he is a great orator.
Also I don’t think Fred Phelps is a good speaker, he just rambles like a beligerent (sp?) madman
I was just reading through here and finally focused on the topic and then my dad decides to come show me a picture of a dog he saw at the dump. There is no way to explain what goes through my mind, but dogs are not trash and they aren’t mean’t for target practice. I totally love Jill Stanek for her stance on life. This is the moment when all those hateful pe ta people come to mind. Calling me a hypocrite for choosing Palin who supposedly killed every living creature in the universe and yet these people don’t care about little babies. Ack! This drives me nuts! To me, it’s the same thing and that is why I fight more these days for the pro-life bloggers because God sent his son to die for humans who were created in his image. Obviously, that is where my priorities are. This happens every day. grr
PIP,
You may want to read my Oct.3 1:43PM post. An interesting article in our local paper concerning ACORN.
Midnite,
My very sincerest sympathy to and your family.
JamieNov81
You should ask those PETA folks if they have any clue what animals do to each other? Animals eat each other alive, steal each other’s food, kill their young, kill each other, pounce on young, old, and disabled animals, and fight off enroachers on “their” territory. My cat loved to torment mice before she finally ate them.
I in no way condone cruelty to animals and support any efforts for the humane treatment of animals. I do not like to see such magnificent animals as tigers and elephants doing circus tricks.
But nature is cruel and merciless, a brutal struggle for survival, not a Disney movie.
it doesn’t matter how beautifully a charismatic orator can speak if everything that comes out of their mouth is a lie.
Mary
There is no point in arguing with those people because they believe what they believe. Palin is a great woman and I will vote for McCain and Palin. When you have to choose between killing infants who were born alive after abortion OR killing animals WHEN IT HAS TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER according to the animal freaks, I choose protecting the babies born alive. I love animals and I believe people who vote for palin love animals too. I love animals, but nothing is more precious than a life created in God’s image. Human life
X 12:54PM
So true. But people don’t care about the lies. Its only how beautifully they are spoken.
Mary: Animals ….steal each other’s food
Those doighty rats!
Jamie, I have a good bit of Native American and Native Mexican tribe blood on both sides of my family. Just because someone eats meat, and has the capacity to properly prioritize their life with regard to the lives of humans and animals, does not mean that person doesn’t REALLY care about animals. The native traditions teach that one should love and honor the animals who sacrifice their lives for our health. I don’t think that the meat industries in their current states do this, and that should be fixed, but saving the lives of the thousands of babies a day who are killed by abortion takes precedence
and there isn’t anything wrong with hunting if it is done respectfully, humanely, and without waste (using all of the animal). trophy hunting is a different story, and there is a difference between hunting primarily for a trophy, and primarily for meat to feed your family.
I really don’t want to be mistaken. I totally agree with you, xalisae. I’m veg not because of animals but because of religion and it doesn’t help that I am obsessed with peanutbutter. I love to fish and I eat fish.
trophy hunting is too hard to comprehend. I hope that isn’t what palin does, but if it is, it is no worse that obama killing babies for trophy of whatever he gets out of it. There is no compassion in his speeches against jill staneks testimony and people who disagree with him.
I don’t think she does, Jamie, because I saw an interview with her mother, and she was talking about how to prepare moose stew.
why does obama have a google donate button on his youtube account, but mccain doesn’t? I’ve wondered that for the longest time.
Jamie,
good point, we know from the recent court case that Google is pro-abort, so maybe that explains it.
we know from the recent court case that Google is pro-abort, so maybe that explains it.
Posted by: Jasper at October 4, 2008 7:58 PM
How do we know that Jasper?
Hal,
Google reversed its previous position on banning ads that mixed “abortion and religion-related content.” The Christian Institute, a pro-life British organization, had filed a suit against the internet giant for rejecting its ad, which read: “UK abortion law: Key views and news on abortion law from the Christian Institute.”
http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/aggregator.php?entry=585523
JamieNov81: I am obsessed with peanutbutter
And you’re ingenuous and a sweetheart. Yes, you and I are on opposite sides, in general, in the abortion debate, but Welcome, Jamie!
The Peanut Butter Tip:
To get gum out of a carpet, scrape up what you can, using an ice cub to stiffen it if necessary. Then rub a small glob of peanut butter into the fibers, and wipe up the whole mess with a cloth. To get rid of any left-behind PB, just dab it up with a mixture of 1 tsp of dishwashing liquid in 1 cup of lukewarm water.
Thanks Jasper. I read their statement from the link you posted. It doesn’t sound to me like their “pro abort.” Sounds like they’re trying hard to be fair and balanced.
“The issue of abortion is an emotive subject and Google does not take a particular side. Over the last few months we have received a number of representations about our abortion ads policy and we decided to conduct a review to make sure it was fair, up to date and consistent with local customs and practices.
“Following the review we have decided to amend our policy, creating a level playing field and enable religious associations to place ads on abortion in a factual way.”
John L: McCain fought for the Nazis in the Civil War while napalming Santa Claus’ workshop when he was 50 years old, back in 1776.
“Oh come on – he’s WAY older than that….”
Erin: Yeah…everyone knows it was the Battle of Hastings!
You’re saying MK is older than Johnny Mac? (uproarious laughter)
Oh, you’re a real barrel of monkeys Doug.(9:35PM)
Mary, I was once called “a walking brewery.” Is that better than a barrel?