Sunday funnies
Dec.14, 2008 6:10 am |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Its funny that you would talk about tackiness…really your low shots at GLBT folk combined with your piece on animatronic fetish dolls are the essence of non-substantive, tabloid-esque pseudo-journalism. Its like opening the pages of Parade Magazine. No one reads parade magazine anymore…Its like wasting your life.
[ to Yo La Tengo ]
Anyone that does NOT see that these are tacky is blind! Is a baby a commodity? I think not. I would not think that you were when were a foetus!
Weren’t you a person when you were about, let’s say, 3 months old? (and I mean, 3 months from conception)
Abortion means that the unborn have just acquired a sort of barcode so that their killing can be purchased all in the name of “convenience”. I wonder how one who stock take in this instance? My mind bloggles!
[ to Jill Stanek ]
Great blog! You are on my Google Reader!
God bless!
Stephen (facebook)
It’s easy to be for abortion if you have already been born, isn’t it YLT?
Its funny that you would talk about tackiness…really your low shots at GLBT folk combined with your piece on animatronic fetish dolls are the essence of non-substantive, tabloid-esque pseudo-journalism. Its like opening the pages of Parade Magazine. No one reads parade magazine anymore…Its like wasting your life.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at December 14, 2008 7:00 AM
Notice in this idiot’s,YLT, own words that Stanek’s articles “are the essence of non-substantive, tabloid-esque pseudo-journalism. Its like opening the pages of Parade Magazine. No one reads parade magazine anymore…Its like wasting your life”.
Think about it. YLT is wasting it’s life here.
Since your wasting your life here, reading her articles, and then wasting your life here, trying to become a editor at her site, your really a waste of your own life YTL.
Take that dunce hat off and take a real good look at it, it has your name on it YLT.
Yllas “it’s” means “it is”. You meant to say “its”.
“Tacky” holiday gifts? People should be happy they receive any gift on Christmas, Christmas should be about the birth of Jesus, or at least being together with family and friends not raping those family and friends for goodies.
And what is your problem with fruit cake? I feel bad for the poor person who gets “your majesty” socks for Christmas.
Hang onto that coal…
~~”And what is your problem with fruit cake? I feel bad for the poor person who gets “your majesty” socks for Christmas.”
Posted by: Jess at December 14, 2008 8:35 AM
LOL, Yllas definitely doesn’t have a problem with fruitcake!
@ Jess.. good point.
@Stephen.. okay, you’re right.. babies don’t have barcodes. Neither do breast and pelvic exams though, and some people can’t afford those by themselves. I guess they just don’t deserve them. :(
During the Vietnam War there was an anti war slogon that went something like this, ‘War is good for business, invest a son.’
(Of course now it would be politically incorrect to use the gender specific term ‘son’. I suppose you could substitute the term ‘child’.)
Todays equivalent in terms of the left’s advocacy for the freedom to choose to kill not only your own child/grandchild, but your parents/grand parents as well, would be something like this.
‘Abortion is good for the economy, sacrifice a grandchild/grandparent, but find some way to at least make it appear dignified.’
Perception is reality.
yor bro ken
yor bro ken
Sunday quote
Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation.
Christ is the one through whom God created everything in heaven and earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see – kings, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities. Everything has been created through him and for him.
He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.
~ Colossians 1:15-17, New Living translation
——————————————————–
Works for me.
yor bro ken
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at December 14, 2008 7:00 AM
‘Its funny that you would talk about tackiness…really your low shots at GLBT folk combined with your piece on animatronic fetish dolls are the essence of non-substantive, tabloid-esque pseudo-journalism.’
——————————————————
‘And one of the lawyers said to Him [Jesus] in reply, “Teacher, when You say this, You insult us too.”
yor bro ken
Yllas, you want a “dunce,” bring out the mirror.
YLT evidently likes it well enough here to post. Do you expect people not to discuss and debate? Do you think Jill wants no discussion, just “preaching to the choir” and an “Amen” chorus? Grow up and get real.
And you think the liberals are greedy, the conservatives on here are going “Gimme gimme gimme! And it BETTER be something good!”
Josh,
I like choirs. If I want freakish liberal ignorance I’ll read the MSM.
Ok, look PP can say that they offer general health exams, but believe me they don’t do so.
They offer exams when they dispense birth control and abortions so that they can skew their numbers to look like they’re providing far more non-controversial services than they really are.
When I was a teenager my mom (huge PP supporter) took me to PP because I had a yeast infection. I guess she thought I had an STD or something, I don’t know. I was virgin, but my mom’s never one for details. Anyways, I just told the PP doctor that I had been having yeast infection symptoms and that my mom decided to take me to her. I was berated and told that there was no way I was telling her the truth and that I needed to be honest with her. Talk about a horrible first gynecological experience. Oh, and btw, I did JUST have a yeast infection.
I was even asked “why are you here just for a yeast infection?” and given birth control pills despite my saying I didn’t need them.
It was obvious that this particular PP did not handle many problems that did not involve STD’s or pregnancy.
Jess, what are you talking about?
Everyone on the face of the planet jokes about fruitcake being a “bad” gift. I’m sure we could dig up lots of liberal cartoons that use the same joke.
It’s not a matter of the evil greedy conservatives not being thankful for someone’s generosity. Of course, you know that you’re just trying to be a jerk for no other reason than to be a jerk.
Good video of Bob Enyart interviewing a leading pro-abort woman who is pushing FOCA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-khY8SsTAc
…These pro-aborts are most dishonest SOB’s in the world.
Jess: This proves my fruitcake point.
http://www.naturalnews.com/021338.html
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.
My confession:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees.. I don’t feel threatened. I don’t feel discriminated against. That’s what they are: Christmas trees.
It doesn’t bother me a bit when people say, ‘Merry Christmas’ to me. I don’t think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn’t bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu If people want a crïeche, it’s just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don’t like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don’t think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can’t find it in the Constitution and I don’t like it being shoved down my throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren’t allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that’s a sign that I’m getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to..
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it’s not funny, it’s intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham’s daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her ‘How could God let something like this happen?’ (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, ‘I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we’ve been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?’
In light of recent events… terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O’Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn’t want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn’t spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr Spock’s son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he’s talking about. And we said OK.
Now we’re asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don’t know right from wrong, and why it doesn’t bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with ‘WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.’
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world’s going to hell Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send ‘jokes’ through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing yet?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you’re not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us..
Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it… no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don’t sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.
My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,
Ben Stein
Only part of that is attributed to Ben Stein….
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/ben-stein-christmas.htm
The Sunday quote…
“Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation.
Christ is the one through whom God created everything in heaven and earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see – kings, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities. Everything has been created through him and for him.
He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.
~ Colossians 1:15-17, New Living translation”
Please go to the following for more relevance and be patient in wathcing th eentire video, God Bless:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e4zgJXPpI4
Eileen:
So what? What is said is totally true.
Fine lauren I guess I’ll just throw the fruitcake I got you for Christmas in the trash. *mumbles angrily*
And if cranberry juice helps prevent yeast infections, so does yogurt. The next time you get one you don’t need to go to a doctor, there are plenty of over the counter stuff you can use as long as nothing is weird about it and you don’t get them often (I’ve only had three, once after using cheap bath bubbles, once while using antibiotics and a random one a few months ago).
This is what you’re missing out on lauren:
http://www.flowerstolebanon.com/ProdImages/PO-FRUITCAKE.jpg
Posted by: HisMan at December 14, 2008 11:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e4zgJXPpI4
————————————————–
Neat video clip. Thanks for the link.
yor bro ken
Hisman
The photo of the actual image from the electron microscope looked more like a human figures I have seen depicted as suspended from a cross than an actual cross.
But that is more consistent with the quote of the day. It is not the instrument of the crucifixion that holds all things together and through whom all things came to be. It is the one whom we crucified.
yor bro ken
Jess, if you don’t get why people don’t like fruitcake, you have never seen “National Lampoon’s Vacation” and heard the line from Aunt Edna about the fruitcake she got for Christmas.
Hisman: So what? What is said is totally true.
Just fyi….I didn’t say I didn’t like the message….
But that is more consistent with the quote of the day. It is not the instrument of the crucifixion that holds all things together and through whom all things came to be. It is the one whom we crucified.
yor bro ken
Posted by: kbhvac at December 14, 2008 1:13 PM
______________________
The point is that the cross IS the sysmbol for Christ himself. If laminin resemebled a human face or feature that’s all it would be.
1 Corinthians 1:17-19 (New International Version)
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Christ the Wisdom and Power of God
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
It’s easy to be for abortion if you have already been born, isn’t it YLT?
Posted by: Jasper at December 14, 2008 7:25 AM
Actually, my mom was given the option of having me aborted. She said no. But I’ve told her it would have been okay. I love my life, but services for those of us with disabilities are lacking in post-bush america.
It used to make her mad that someone offered her the option of abortion, but now she sees it as a valid optionm, just not one that she has chosen.
Posted by: yllas at December 14, 2008 7:55 AM
Posting on a message board does not confer validity or agreement upon it.
I dont think I would ever waste my life being a mod in a virtual space. I like real friends not virtual ones. What this space is good for though is a quick shot of humor.
Posted by: yo la tengo at December 14, 2008 4:27 PM
——
[redacted by the author]
Posted by: Jasper at December 14, 2008 10:50 AM
——
Interesting.
Don’t know why it’s a difficult decision…if it (what is it?) is not alive until after birth…
…and she doesn’t even know what it is!
The word “abortion” and the question “What is it?” will be avoided like crazy by the pro-aborts. She even slipped and called it a baby at first, before she caught herself. They are so morally corrupt, it’s close to insanity.
And they are now so bankrupt the only option left is to say the child is a woman’s property she has the right to kill because of the natural location.
Oh good – violence against humans is permissible: Mom’s have the right to kill their children.
As pro-aborts learn to avoid debate, they’ll resort to persecution. When logic fails, force follows.
Actually, my mom was given the option of having me aborted. She said no. But I’ve told her it would have been okay. I love my life, but services for those of us with disabilities are lacking in post-bush america.
It used to make her mad that someone offered her the option of abortion, but now she sees it as a valid optionm, just not one that she has chosen.
Why didn’t you tell your mother thank you for what she did for you?
Why tell your mom it would have been okay for her to kill you, when obviously she wanted to keep you (or else she would have had the abortion- and she wouldn’t have been originally mad that someone suggested abortion)?
Do you think it would be okay for your mother to kill you now if your disability is a burden to her?
you can really tell people when people have a poor outlook on life when they say it would have been okay for their mother to abort them.
As Bethany said, you should THANK your mother for giving you life.
Don’t know why it’s a difficult decision…if it (what is it?) is not alive until after birth…
Chris, big straw man there.
Jess: Fine lauren I guess I’ll just throw the fruitcake I got you for Christmas in the trash. *mumbles angrily*
Jess, you’re beautiful when you’re angry.
And some of us like fruitcakes (fresh ones, anyway).
Posted by: Doug at December 14, 2008 9:32 PM
Doug, that’s known as sarcasm.
Posting on a message board does not confer validity or agreement upon it.
I dont think I would ever waste my life being a mod in a virtual space. I like real friends not virtual ones. What this space is good for though is a quick shot of humor.
Posted by: Yo la tengo at December 14, 2008 4:31 PM
I don’t care about your friends. It has nothing to do with what I wrote about you wasting your life here reading Stanek’s articles. As you admit and wrote; “Its like opening the pages of Parade Magazine. No one reads parade magazine anymore…Its like wasting your life.”
You really have a problem with reality when your own words are given back to you, and you wander off into mods, validity, agreement and other issues which are irrelevent to you wasting your life here posting at the Parade Magazine equivalent, known as Jill Stanek, Pro Life Pulse.
Isn’t Stanek LIKE Parade mag, or not Dumbo?
To which you may contradict yourself and make another post about, agreement, validity, and other non issues you may deflect to, Yo No Nada.
Its funny that you would talk about tackiness…really your low shots at GLBT folk combined with your piece on animatronic fetish dolls are the essence of non-substantive, tabloid-esque pseudo-journalism. Its like opening the pages of Parade Magazine. No one reads parade magazine anymore…Its like wasting your life.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at December 14, 2008 7:00 AM
Make your mind conform to your own reality at least, Yo No Nada. It’s your words idiot.
Posted by: Jasper at December 14, 2008 10:50 AM
My thoughts at my new site:
http://www.thrufire.com/blog/2008/12/common-evidence-what-is-it/
In an apparent attempt to justify wasting her time and ours, Yo La said: “What this space is good for though is a quick shot of humor.”
Only a true proabort baby killer would look for, or find humor on a website dedicated to the abolition of abortion.
There is nothing funny to us about dead babies.
Doyle, some of the more extreme views expressed here are indeed very funny.
In view of the main topic, Hal, I fail to see how anyone of good conscience could find humor in anything on this forum. The deaths of over 4,000 unborn babies a day to elective abortion casts a pall over anything that might otherwise, under other circumstances, be “humorous”. But maybe that’s just me?
I think fruitcake is a little like liver. You either love it or hate it, probably more people hate it though.
I’m one of the few who loves it. Especially homemade- or from the Amish bakery.
Doug, that’s known as sarcasm.
Chris, I stand corrected. She should have said, “Yes, the fetus is living.”
Bethany, I’ve had some good fruitcakes too. Fresh is good.
In Jamaica they call it “spiced bun.”
That sounds good! Here is one I made two years ago:
http://bethany.preciousinfants.com/2006/12/27/fruitcake.aspx
http://bethany.preciousinfants.com/2006/12/27/fruit-cake-fully-cooked.aspx
Not as good as the ones with fresh ingredients but it was still pretty good.
B, I didn’t mean the fruit had to be fresh – isn’t it always “candied” in the first place?
I just meant not some old hard, too dried-out thing that’s been passed around.
Yours looks great. You didn’t pour any of that bourbon into you while cooking, did you?
Ok, look PP can say that they offer general health exams, but believe me they don’t do so. They offer exams when they dispense birth control and abortions so that they can skew their numbers to look like they’re providing far more non-controversial services than they really are.
Posted by: lauren at December 14, 2008 10:36 AM
That’s a lie.
I won’t contend with the rest of your post because its based on your option on the level of service you recieved, but it is not true that PP does not offer exams. They do, all day every day. Plenty of women come in to fill rx, get annual paps or STD screens and then go home. There are other services that are available besides abortion.
option = opinion, sorry
Those fruitcakes look wonderful Bethany! I’ve never seen those kind of cherries before but they look delicious.
And to all the pro-lifers who whine about people not posting your ads look at what PETA is trying to post (to the dismay of many):
http://blog.peta.org/archives/2008/12/airport_securit.php
Thanks, Jess and Doug!
:) Oh and the fruitcake that I’ve gotten from an Amish place had really fresh fruit in it and it also had brown sugar and pecans and really didn’t taste like any fruit cake I’d ever had before. I don’t think any of it was candied. It was soooo good. I wish I could find a recipe for that particular cake because it was awesome.
Danielle, no it’s not a lie. I said that PP boosts their numbers by including the exams performed during std screens and prior to providing birth control as well as the std screen and birth control itself. By doing this, they are able to say a smaller % of their business is from abortions, though the actual numbers are quite different.
They’re counting the same patient 5 times because they gave her an exam, a std screen, a pack of pills, pregnancy counseling, and an abortion when she comes in for an abortion. That way the abortion itself only accounts for 1/5 of the total services received, even though her reasons for being at the clinic to begin with was for the abortion.
As for general health services, the PP in Arlington, TX acted like they had never done test that wasn’t for STD’s. Like I said, they actually asked me “why didn’t you go to your primary care doctor?”
Posted by: lauren at December 15, 2008 7:00 PM
Lauren – actually it’s common clinical practice to show services broken across various clinical functions. Has to do with resource management, and somewhere along the line, more people are involved and it’s good for the economy…(ha!) I think the health care companies came up with it, so they could have more cost-centers… and charge more.
As for your own experiences…you’re the expert there.
“Danielle, no it’s not a lie. I said that PP boosts their numbers by including the exams performed during std screens and prior to providing birth control as well as the std screen and birth control itself. By doing this, they are able to say a smaller % of their business is from abortions, though the actual numbers are quite different.They’re counting the same patient 5 times because they gave her an exam, a std screen, a pack of pills, pregnancy counseling, and an abortion when she comes in for an abortion. That way the abortion itself only accounts for 1/5 of the total services received, even though her reasons for being at the clinic to begin with was for the abortion.”
Posted by: lauren at December 15, 2008 7:00 PM
-Perhaps Chris summed it up more succinctly than I can, but I’m struggling with where you’re finding shady business in the scenario you described above. Of course they would count all of the different services one patient would’ve received, because they’re individual services! It doesn’t matter if its the same patient. They were services rendered. And how are you jumping to the conclusion that this patient was coming in ‘all along’ for an abortion? Are you referring to a specific case, or assuming? There are indeed patients who originally came in for one service and return later (weeks, months, years) for another. But that doesn’t mean that she came in for an abortion all along and ultimately, that person should’ve only been marked down as receiving an abortion.
‘As for general health services, the PP in Arlington, TX acted like they had never done test that wasn’t for STD’s. Like I said, they actually asked me “why didn’t you go to your primary care doctor?”‘
Posted by: lauren at December 15, 2008 7:00 PM
-This incident did not strike me as controversial, either. A) The exams they provide are sexually related/reproductive in nature – you wouldn’t be in for an annual check up – which is why it would be less likely to have a patient who wasn’t coming in for an STD issue and B) PP is a public clinic. It would be understandable that the staff would need to keep track of and report why people were coming to them for care vs. going to a GP (insurance, access, etc).
Danielle.DING DING DING.
You nailed it exactly when you said “he exams they provide are sexually related/reproductive in nature – you wouldn’t be in for an annual check up – which is why it would be less likely to have a patient who wasn’t coming in for an STD issue ”
Bingo! This is not about poor woman getting routine healthcare. Planned Parenthood presents themselves as something other than they are. They are a sexual health clinic. Fine. Just don’t pretend to be something else in order to get more government funding.
Hey, did you guys know that flying planes into buildings and shooting women for going to school is just a tiny part of what al Qaeda does? They also help the widows of suicide bombers! So you pro-aborts had all better support al Qaeda. What, you don’t want to? Why do you hate widows? :(
@Lauren…
Planned Parenthood obviously doesn’t do things like check lungs and reflexes. That would be ridiculous… that’s nothing to do with the business. You wouldn’t go to the hardware store for haute couture, would you? :) However, they DO do routine stuff. Pap smears? Breast exams? I go to school with girls who are not on birth control and not sexually active, but they go there for their “girlie checkups” and breast exams..
Posted by: Bethany at December 14, 2008 9:01 PM
Actually I have a perfectly balanced idea of my life. I’ve suffered because of my disability. How many here can say that. And yet you would sentence a person to lifelong ridicule, heartache and disappointment. Thats not my life, but for those i know who are more disabled it is. You give a crap only in passing. The disabled are not political kewpie dolls to be posed and politicized at the whim of the abled.
My mom is a nurse. She has seen babies that are “given a chance” more for the mother and father than for the child. Babies that live but for technology, forever dependent upon machines to breathe, eat, communicate (those that are lucky enough to be sentient). I think God understands when we let go. It is not right when people are forced to live, just as it is not right when people are forced to die. A fetus is not yet alive, yet we take mere fetuses hook them up to a machine and call it a life. Some parents really are selfish. Speaking as a disabled individual I think sometimes abortion is more humane than life. What is better – a soul with God or a life in living hell?
Actually I have a perfectly balanced idea of my life. I’ve suffered because of my disability. How many here can say that. And yet you would sentence a person to lifelong ridicule, heartache and disappointment. Thats not my life, but for those i know who are more disabled it is. You give a crap only in passing. The disabled are not political kewpie dolls to be posed and politicized at the whim of the abled.
I’m sorry this has been your experience, but it is completely unfair to paint everyone with the same brushstroke because you have been hurt by others. How do you know that we don’t care about the disabled?
And how am I sentencing someone to a life full of ridicule, heartache, and disappointment, by allowing them the chance to live?
Joseph Merrick, the Elephant man didn’t give up on life, and he was one of the most ridiculed people on this planet. In fact, he was able to find love on this earth.
Take a look at this guy, Nick V, who has no arms and legs, and listen to HIS philosophy on life. And then you tell me that people with disabilities can’t rise above them and have a life full of joy!
In fact, even without disabilities, you could say ANYONE is sentenced to a life full of ridicule, heartache, and disappointment. Has anyone in this world ever not experienced such things? Some more, some less?
You make people with disabilities sound so helpless.
I don’t think they are, yo la tengo…you are willing to give up on them- I’m NOT! I think they are people just like everyone else, and I think that in many cases, their disability is a gift to them (yes you read me right), because it challenges them to push harder and make something of themselves.
Take Brad Cohen, who has Tourette’s for example. Read his story about how he rose above it and made something of himself.
Take Joni Eareckson-Tada, who was paralyzed from the neck down in an accident, and became an artist by painting with her mouth!…read her story!
Do you care about the disabled people as much as you say you do, Yolatengo…if you do, you have a strange way of showing it. They don’t want or need your pity. They need encouragement and to know that they can rise above their challenges!
“If you’re going to be ridiculed or have to endure disappointment in life, best to be killed”…is that your philosophy, really?
Running away from your problems?
Here is my advice: Stop feeling sorry for yourself and make something of your life!
Look at your disability as an opportunity- an obstacle which you can overcome!
As long as you look at yourself as disabled and pitiful, that is how others will see you too.
Start looking at yourself as a person who CAN instead of someone who CAN’T. THEN you’ll be making progress!
Here are some quotes from Helen Keller, the deaf and blind woman who learned to read and write, and even speak:
*******************************************
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all. Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature.
• When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
• One cannot consent to creep when one has an impulse to soar.
• The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen, nor touched … but are felt in the heart.
• When indeed shall we learn that we are all related one to the other, that we are all members of one body?
• Keep your face to the sunshine and you cannot see the shadow.
• I long to accomplish a great and noble task, but it is my chief duty to accomplish small tasks as if they were great and noble.
• I seldom think of my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
• What we have once enjoyed we can never lose. All that we love deeply becomes a part of us.
• When we do the best that we can, we never know what miracle is wrought in our life, or in the life of another.
• Everything has its wonders, even darkness and silence, and I learn, whatever state I may be in, therein to be content.
• Be of good cheer. Do not think of today’s failures, but of the success that may come tomorrow. You have set yourself a difficult task, but you will succeed if you persevere; and you will find a joy in overcoming obstacles.
• Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it.
• Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without hope or confidence.
• Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold.
• Faith is the strength by which a shattered world shall emerge into the light.
• To keep our faces toward change, and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate, is strength undefeatable.
• Knowledge is love and light and vision.
• As selfishness and complaint pervert the mind, so love with its joy clears and sharpens the vision.
• No pessimist ever discovered the secret of the stars, or sailed to an uncharted land, or opened a new doorway for the human spirit.
• We can do anything we want to if we stick to it long enough.
• While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was done.
“”I sometimes think my head is so large because it is so full of dreams”
— Joseph Merrick
Joni Eareckson Tada
“Sometimes God allows what he hates to accomplish what he loves.”
“I’ve had a very good life, filled with love and family and faith. You can make life good or you can make it bad.”
Diane Odell
Patrick Nicholson, who has Down Syndrome…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfEUOiAeyTI
When asked “what do you want to be when you grow up?” “I want to be a football coach”.
Amanda Bagg (autism)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc&eurl=https://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/02/a_different_ang.html
And if the above people wanted to end their lives at some point, they should be allowed to.
Why would you want them to, Hathan?
And obviously, these people would never want to die. They know that life is worth something, and they want others to know that too.
So your idea that ‘if they wanted to die’ is a completely irrelevant thought and shows that you missed my point entirely.
You nailed it exactly when you said “he exams they provide are sexually related/reproductive in nature – you wouldn’t be in for an annual check up – which is why it would be less likely to have a patient who wasn’t coming in for an STD issue ”
Bingo! This is not about poor woman getting routine healthcare. Planned Parenthood presents themselves as something other than they are. They are a sexual health clinic. Fine. Just don’t pretend to be something else in order to get more government funding.
Posted by: lauren at December 15, 2008 10:34 PM
-Lauren, no. Sexual health – STD screening, pelvic and pap smears, HIV screening, pg tests, ARE are part of routine healthcare, no matter poor or rich. There’s no ‘a ha’ here. PP provides routine services, like any gvt funded clinic would.
Posted by: Jasper at December 14, 2008 7:25 AM
Actually, my mom was given the option of having me aborted. She said no. But I’ve told her it would have been okay. I love my life, but services for those of us with disabilities are lacking in post-bush america.
It used to make her mad that someone offered her the option of abortion, but now she sees it as a valid optionm, just not one that she has chosen.
Posted by: yo la tengo at December 14, 2008 4:27 PM
No matter how you dice it, for you it’s EASY to say you’re for abortion…YOU ARE ALIVE!
And no amount of parcing words, detaling your life, your mom’s life, your experiences, your disabilities, etc. will ever change that fact.
YOU ARE ALIVE….it’s entirely too late for you to come on here and say “it’s okay mom, you COULD have killed me”!
Do you deal in reality at all, ever?
Hey Hathan, SHOULD any of the above people want to die, in your opinion?
Anyone want to tackle that question?
So your idea that ‘if they wanted to die’ is a completely irrelevant thought and shows that you missed my point entirely.
Posted by: Bethany at December 16, 2008 7:17 AM
Hi Bethany,I think you’re missing the point. If these people didn’t want to die, their stories are not relevant to a discussion of what to do with the wishes of other people who do want to die. Not everyone wants to die, but those who do certainly have that right. Don’t they?
Hal, read Yo La Tengo’s post, then mine.
His point was that allowing a person to live who might be handicapped is “sentencing them to a life of ridicule, disappointment, etc”, and he referred to his own experiences (I refer to YLT as a he because it is easier than saying he/she). He was implying that we don’t care about people with disabilities, and I was also refuting that point.
My points were really about Yo la tengo himself, and to show him that he has worth, not just in my own eyes, but inherently within himself.
If you and others missed that, you missed the entire point of my post.
I hope that Yolatengo was able to see what I was talking about. I hope that he encouraged to overcome his obstacles instead of feeling defeated by them.
. Not everyone wants to die, but those who do certainly have that right. Don’t they?
Everyone has the right to die naturally.
Okay Bethany. I agree YLT has worth. We all do. But we also have autonomy. If you deny the right to make life and death decisions to a person you are denying their autonomy. There are many, many reasons I don’t want to die. If my life was much harder, painful, or unhappy, I still wouldn’t want to die. However, if I were faced with certain conditions, I might want to die. In that situation, I’d way the pros and cons and make a decision. Life for life’s sake alone makes no sense to me.
Okay Bethany. I agree YLT has worth. We all do. But we also have autonomy. If you deny the right to make life and death decisions to a person you are denying their autonomy. There are many, many reasons I don’t want to die. If my life was much harder, painful, or unhappy, I still wouldn’t want to die. However, if I were faced with certain conditions, I might want to die. In that situation, I’d way the pros and cons and make a decision. Life for life’s sake alone makes no sense to me.
This isn’t what I’m talking about, Hal- not right now. I am trying to encourage YLT to overcome his obstacles instead of giving up. If you ever faced obstacles that tempted you to want to die, I would encourage you as well.
Okay Bethany. I agree YLT has worth. We all do. But we also have autonomy.
Where does YLT’s worth come from, Hal?
Well, now we know where Tengo is coming from. He thinks that in some cases – actually, in millions of cases – that death is better than life. That in millions of cases, despair is better than hope, failure is better than accomplishment, and surrender is better than victory. His justification for this is that he has personally suffered, so other people should have the choice not to potentially suffer. He seems to think that only “disabled” people are capable of suffering as well.
That kind of attitude is the antithesis of Christianity, so it’s no surprise that Tengo has become a bitter ex-Christian.
Bethany, Hal will probably say that Tengo has worth because his mother opted not to kill him.
He seems to think that only “disabled” people are capable of suffering as well.
That’s the part that really gets me, John. That is quite an assumption, isn’t it!
“Why would you want them to, Hathan?”
Don’t you get it Bethany? It’s not what we want, it’s what they want. Imagine the worst pain you were ever in, now imagine living with that 24/7. You can’t walk, talk, think because of the pain. Some people don’t want to live like that. You can say, “Oh well you’re a person and I love you” but that really doesn’t help anything. If I had to spend my entire life in a iron lung I would rather be dead. I don’t care what you think I wouldn’t want to live in a box my entire life. Don’t you get it? Some people don’t want to suffer in a box their entire lives.
Yo La Tengo,
“I’ve suffered because of my disability. How many here can say that.”
I can.
I can too.
Jess, if you’ll notice what Hathan had said, he was referring to the above examples I gave.
Which of those people I mentioned was in such extreme physical pain 24/7 that they cannot walk or talk because of the pain?
Hathan was advocating letting a person be killed by assisted suicide because he has down syndrome, letting a person be killed because she has autism, letting a person be killed because she is paralized, and letting a person be killed because he is missing limbs. Or letting a person be killed because she is blind and deaf.
Where is the limit? Where do you people draw the line with “suffering”? Who would you NOT allow a doctor to kill?
What about Erin or Enigma? If they told you today that they want to kill themselves because of their disabilities, would you not try to convince them to change their minds? Would you just say, oh yeah, sure…go ahead…it’s your choice, right! Hope you find the doctor who’s willing to help you kill yourself!
Bethany,
Okay, I did not say that so that you could start using me as an example to support your argument. Thank you for that, by the way.
Don’t you know when to stop?
Do you realize how insulting and demeaning it is to try and tell someone who’s disabled that their lives can have value and meaning, and that there is great opportunity in the struggle? Not because I don’t believe that those things are true, but because of how you’re saying them. You’re trying to preach this with nothing to back it up. The few case histories that you can pull out don’t mean a thing.
Give people the time to find the answers on their own; shoving them down someone’s throat proves nothing. No one ever believes because someone has forced them to; people believe because they have reached the point where they can.
Do you realize how insulting and demeaning it is to try and tell someone who’s disabled that their lives can have value and meaning, and that there is great opportunity in the struggle?
No, Enigma…I sure don’t. Can you please explain to me how that is demeaning,
and somehow the idea that a disabled life is most likely going to be meaningless and depressing is not?
Not because I don’t believe that those things are true, but because of how you’re saying them.
How am I saying them, Enigma? With conviction and passion? Like I actually believe what I’m saying? What is wrong with the way I am saying it.
You’re trying to preach this with nothing to back it up. The few case histories that you can pull out don’t mean a thing.
Why not? What do you mean by “nothing to back it up”?
Bethany,
I should warn you, this is difficult to explain.
“No, Enigma…I sure don’t. Can you please explain to me how that is demeaning, and somehow the idea that a disabled life is most likely going to be meaningless and depressing is not?”
They both are, actually.
“How am I saying them, Enigma? With conviction and passion? Like I actually believe what I’m saying? What is wrong with the way I am saying it.”
Like a healthy, fully-abled (yes, I know that’s not a word) person who’s trying to tell a disabled person what their life either means or could mean.
“Why not? What do you mean by “nothing to back it up”?”
You’re saying it without empathy.
Enigma, you don’t need to feel empathy in order to believe that life is superior to death, and that every human being has an intrinsic value.
But also, Enigma, Bethany and I refuse to abandon people to death simply because they are disabled. You are telling us that people should have a right to choose death over disability. We disagree.
Everyone suffers in their lives. The answer to such suffering is for us to take care of each other and help each other, not kill ourselves.
“You are telling us that people should have a right to choose death over disability. We disagree.”
Nice how you take away people’s rights John. Maybe
Maybe it’s not a good idea, maybe people need more options, but don’t take away someone’s rights.
Bethany,
Like a healthy, fully-abled (yes, I know that’s not a word) person who’s trying to tell a disabled person what their life either means or could mean.
Are you saying that I cannot possibly believe your life has worth unless I know your particular struggles personally?
You’re saying it without empathy.
Enigma, I think you are confused by the way I was responding to Yo La Tengo, because I did not respond to him with sympathetic words about his disability.
This was intentional. I did this purposely because Yo la Tengo has said many times in the past that he resents it when people treat disabled people with such pity.
Yet, at the same time that he implies and suggests that he wants no pity, he expects us to look at disabled people as weaklings who would be better off dead than to go through struggles.
My point in responding to him the way I did, Enigma, was to help him to stop feeling sorry for himself, and hopefully give him a kick in the hiney and motivate him to make something of himself instead of resenting himself his entire life.
YLT is not his disability.
Let me repeat: He is not his disability.
I was not talking to a “disabled person”, Enigma. I was not a healthy bodies person talking to a disabled person. I was a person talking to another person who happens to have a disability.
A disability is something that happens to you, it is NOT who you are!
Why do I get so passionate when it comes to this topic? I can’t explain it all today, but all of my life I have been extremely inspired by characters like the ones I brought up- Helen Keller and Joni Eareckson-Tada were my HEROES. I wanted to grow up to overcome my struggles (oh did I mention I had struggles? Imagine that. A healthy bodied person having struggles to overcome…) and make something of my life!
To think that I have no empathy for these people is to completely misunderstand me. My goodness, the thought of having to deal with such burdens makes me cry sometimes…I remember watching Nick Vujicic’s video for the first time, and crying my eyes out that someone could go through so much, and still have such a positive outlook on life. He is such an inspiration to me.
Enigma, you couldn’t be more wrong that I feel no empathy for the struggles these people face as a result of their disabilities. However, I do not think that they are less than people, or that they would be better off dead because of their struggles.
However, I do not think that they are less than people, or that they would be better off dead because of their struggles.
Posted by: Bethany at December 16, 2008 10:19 PM
Those are all wonderful thoughts Bethany, but at the end of the day, it’s their decision. Not yours. You decide your life, they decide theirs. However, your compassion and assistance might very well make a difference when they have to face that dilemma.
Thanks Hal, that is very kind of you. I really do hope that I can help someone some day.
I agree that they could very well take their life into their own hands, and obviously, they have the right to do that, as bad as I hate it that anyone would choose such a thing for themselves (assisted suicide is what I consider murder- suicide on it’s own is a totally different topic, in my opinion)
I know actually more than just a few people who have tried to take their life into their own hands. In each case, it was a person who was in despair and didn’t know any other escape from their situation.
Miraculously, many did not die from their suicide attempts. One good friend of mine had actually slit her wrist in her high school years, and taken a whole bottle of pills, and laid on her couch, ready to die (this is while she was in her teens)- she was depressed and felt that the entire world hated her and that she had no friends, and she saw no other way out of her misery. By some chance (she and I believe it was providence), one of her school teachers called- someone who had never called before. He was wondering if she was doing okay. At that moment, she realized that someone CARED about her. She realized she wasn’t alone. She began desperately bandaging up her wrists as she called 911 for an ambulance. She had her stomach pumped and miraculously, she did not die. She says many times that she owes her life to that teacher who cared about her life and called her just in time. She now has a family of her own and is very happy.
There are so many stories I could tell you. Each one ends with the person choosing life for themselves because someone cared enough to check on them and tell them they loved them.
I think that the vast majority of human beings who are at the depth of despair and choose to kill themselves don’t do it because they want to die- they do it because they are helpless, scared, and don’t know what to do- they don’t feel that anyone cares about them. They don’t want to hurt other people and they think dying will help someone other than themselves. When it comes down to it, they don’t want death though- they want a solution to their problem… yet they just don’t know any other way out of it.
Please understand- I know this simplifies things and I know it is more complicated than that and that every story is different and complex. I’m just telling you that from my experience with people who have tried to commit suicide, this was their reality, in the simplest of terms.
I think that is terribly tragic that people choose to kill themselves, I don’t deny that is their choice to make. I mean, what kind of penalty can you give to someone who commits suicide? Obviously, there’s really not anything you can do.
My problem (when it comes to legalities) is with the assisted suicide. I think it is murder when the doctor not only confirms the patient’s idea that his life is now worthless due to his disibility/disease, but also gives him the cocktail of death and encourages him to drink, and then the person dies as a result of the other person who kills him. That is murder and I just can’t see any way around that.
This is what bothered me about the video the most…Craig Ewert’s wife sitting there, looking at her husband as he drank the cocktail of death, which his doctor encouraged him to drink through the cute little pink straw- She patted him on the head and said “I love you” quickly as possible, then gave him the brisk kiss of Judas as she pulled back, staring at him, and allowed him to die in a cold environment full of nonchalant people with atta boy! looks on their faces, and not tearful sorrow for their loss.
Ugh, I just can’t even imagine it. It hurts me to really think about it.
Can you at least imagine how this appears to me?
Enigma,
“Are you saying that I cannot possibly believe your life has worth unless I know your particular struggles personally?”
Absolutely not! Everyone has a story. What I am saying is that being disabled gives you a different perspective that someone without a disability could never have.
“This was intentional. I did this purposely because Yo la Tengo has said many times in the past that he resents it when people treat disabled people with such pity.”
Good for him. I feel the same way. In my opinion, sympathy is always useless.
“Yet, at the same time that he implies and suggests that he wants no pity, he expects us to look at disabled people as weaklings who would be better off dead than to go through struggles.”
Depends on the disability, I think.
“My point in responding to him the way I did, Enigma, was to help him to stop feeling sorry for himself, and hopefully give him a kick in the hiney and motivate him to make something of himself instead of resenting himself his entire life.”
And that is what I object to. Coming from you, it comes across as condescending. You can’t motivate someone; it comes from within.
“YLT is not his disability.
Let me repeat: He is not his disability.”
You have no idea how nice it is that someone draws that distinction.
“Why do I get so passionate when it comes to this topic? I can’t explain it all today, but all of my life I have been extremely inspired by characters like the ones I brought up- Helen Keller and Joni Eareckson-Tada were my HEROES. I wanted to grow up to overcome my struggles (oh did I mention I had struggles? Imagine that. A healthy bodied person having struggles to overcome…) and make something of my life!”
Commendable.
“To think that I have no empathy for these people is to completely misunderstand me.”
Not according to my understanding of empathy in this sense. Many words are overloaded in the english language (it’s always great fun when the argument boils down to, well, I’m using the word this way, and you’re using the word that way). Here, I’m defining empathy has having gone through it yourself. And no, I’m not claiming that I have experience with every possible disability on the planet (I don’t and, in retrospect, mine is probably fairly mild…well, now anyway). But I am claiming that having a disability gives you a different perspective fundamentally gives you a different perspective than someone who has not.
Nice how your worship Moloch, Hal. I would appreciate it if you would stop calling suicide and killing a matter of “choice”. But, you can’t, because you worship death.
You are so committed to people’s “rights”, and yet you support socialist political candidates. Too bad you’re no so committed to “rights” when it comes to something like your right to keep the money you earn instead of having it stolen by politicians. Nah, you support “rights” only when it reinforces your pro-death agenda.
John L,
“Enigma, you don’t need to feel empathy in order to believe that life is superior to death, and that every human being has an intrinsic value.”
I never said that you did.
“But also, Enigma, Bethany and I refuse to abandon people to death simply because they are disabled. You are telling us that people should have a right to choose death over disability. We disagree.”
That is not the point that I was addressing in my earlier post to Bethany.
“Everyone suffers in their lives. The answer to such suffering is for us to take care of each other and help each other, not kill ourselves.”
Depends on the suffering.
Enigma, I would appreciate it if you would stop using disabilities as an excuse to kill people. But, you can’t, because like Hal, you worship death. It’s a fundamental disagreement and irreconcilable difference between us. There’s really nothing more we can or should say to each other.
Speaking as a disabled individual
Posted by YLT.
Now we know the source of this pessimist.
Luckily we’re becoming a more fatalistic culture and the disabled will be left behind to deal with their disabilities on their own.
Taking the year 1AD, medical knowledge was equal in knowledge between Western and Eastern civilization.
Moving forward in time, Western civilization advanced in technology and knowledge to the point that by the 20th century almost all advances in care of a “disability”, such as the disability of diabetes, to cardio-vascular diseases, were coming from Western civilization through scientific inquiry.
Proof of the Western civilization advances in the medical arts is easily found in patents recognized by all civilization of the world.
Why did this occur?
Because we did not believe in euthanasia or suicide as a civilization, as a medical, or societal solution to problems of disabilities, such as that pessimist YLT has.
Why did Western civilization reject suicide and euthanasia in general moving forward in time from 1AD?
Religion changed.
Luckily we’re becoming more fatalistic and will have less YTL’s around to slow the progress towards a civilization where disabilities are eliminated by eliminating those that are such pessimist towards their hopeless disability.
But even if they are not pessimist at first, our society will convince even the most optimistic among those disabled, that their is no answer to some disability they have, and end up a pessimist like YTL.
Science has no answers for YTL. Thank goodness, we will begin to progress to less science and more fatalism towards the hopelessly disabled.
Enigma, I would appreciate it if you would stop using disabilities as an excuse to kill people. But, you can’t, because like Hal, you worship death. It’s a fundamental disagreement and irreconcilable difference between us. There’s really nothing more we can or should say to each other.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at December 17, 2008 3:39 PM
Not sure I “worship” death. But there are fundamental disagreements between us.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at December 16, 2008 10:46 AM
I’m not ex-anything. I left Christianity about 15 years ago, but I think thats long enough to have insightful distance about its pluses and minuses, bitterness long since gone.
I’m okay with your anti-abortion stance. It works for you. But its not for me.
I am fortunate enough to have been born in a place with decent enough socialized early education and physical therapy to make my life better. Had it not been for these government services I would have been up a crick without a paddle.
I am fortunate enough to have been born in a place with decent enough socialized early education and physical therapy to make my life better. Had it not been for these government services I would have been up a crick without a paddle.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at December 17, 2008 5:46 PM
Your health was secured by force. The force of taxation.
You will never get any better, and the resourses spent on you are pro longing your suffering from your disabilities.
Thank goodness wiser minds will eliminate such wasted efforts on the disabled by their own actions or genetics, and from knowing that it is time to accept that many disabled are not contributing to the greater good.
More efforts should be made in promoting euthansia and abortion should be mandated by income.
A more healthy society will be the future, when those with disabilities are self convinced to be compassionate to the healthy, and euthanize themself sooner, rather then latter.
Yllas – your response typifies the pro-life movement, reactive rather than pro-active. Taking things to an illogical extreme that was neither suggested nor implied by that which you are reacting against. Rather than offer solutions you offer only reasons why your movement should be disregarded as null and devoid of consequence.
Come on YTL,
I’m not being anything but logical.
More efforts should be made in promoting euthansia and abortion should be mandated by income. Yes or no?
All matters eventually become matters of finance.
Yes or no?
Your health was secured by force. The force of taxation. Yes or no?
A compassionate person would simply sacrifice their pain and suffering to society by euthanizing themself if unable to have the honor to just commit suicide, for the greater good of society.
Sepeku is honor. You state that pain and suffering are conquered in one last bold effort at restoring lost honor to a disability.
Have compassion YTL.
This pro life issue which you bring up about me, is amusing that many have suggested I’m a secret pro abort like you.
When I suggest that you have compassion and increase the greater good of society, you reach out for some ad hominem that ignores the logic of my arguments.
This suggest that your a hypocrite who doesn’t believe a word you preach YTL.
No one ever believes because someone has forced them to; people believe because they have reached the point where they can.
Posted by: Enigma at December 16, 2008 8:02 PM
Now there is a joke.
Castro owns their life from birth to death. What they think is pre determined by years of not forcing them what to think, but by creating a love for freedom revealed by the joy of being a child of Castro’s love.
Enigma is a toady of all those thoughts directed at Engima, to end in Enigma being a willing stooge of what she thinks is freedom.
No one ever believes because someone has forced them to; people believe because they have reached the point where they can.
You can’t motivate someone; it comes from within.
No, you can’t force anyone to believe anything, but one can be motivated by another person’s love, compassion, friendship, concern, and inspiration. I disagree that motivation only comes from within- sometimes it takes another person to plant the seed of encouragement.
Bethany,
“I disagree that motivation only comes from within- sometimes it takes another person to plant the seed of encouragement.”
It’s your prerogative to disagree; however, you haven’t addressed my point that, in this case, you aren’t the one who should be offering encouragement.
That’s because it makes no sense to me, Enigma.
Should I refrain from encouraging a victim of domestic abuse to get out of the situation- because I have not personally been abused by my husband?
Should I refrain from encouraging a person facing a financial crisis on ways that he/she can get out of debt, because I have not personally been in debt?
Should I refrain from encouraging a person to go to a rehab clinic, who is addicted to heroine or any other dangerous drug, because I have not personally been addicted to heroine?
I am sure that in each of these cases, the person involved would have a unique perspective which I would not have, but that does not mean that I automatically cannot offer them advice or encouragement, simply because I have not personally experienced what they are experiencing.
Bethany,
Do you remember once when you were talking with someone else on the blog about how people without children couldn’t possibly understand how it felt to have children? It’s the exact same thing.
The examples you cited above are fundamentally different but it’s not the kind of thing I can explain.
Probably because I’m trying to explain something that I should know better than to expect other people to understand.
Do you remember once when you were talking with someone else on the blog about how people without children couldn’t possibly understand how it felt to have children? It’s the exact same thing.
I know what you’re saying, Enigma, I just disagree.
As a person who doesn’t have children, you’re right, you cannot have the particular perspective that I have on children.
However, I would never stop you from encouraging me if I needed it regarding my children. For instance, say we’re close friends and you come over to my house, and it’s a total wreck and the kids are bouncing off the walls, and I’m looking absolutely miserable. I tell you that I’m at the end of my rope and I just don’t know what to do because the kids are uncontrollable- or something like that.
Would you refrain from encouraging me and telling me that I can overcome it, that things will get better, etc, give me ideas of what I might be able to do to relieve some of the tension- just because you do not have the unique experience that I have in actually having children?
I wouldn’t expect you to say nothing. In fact, I’d think if you did refrain from trying to help, there would be something awfully strange about that.
Enigma, should a person disabled by blindness ever encourage a person disabled by spina bifida? Or a person with no arms try to encourage someone with autism?
Would it be wrong for them to try? If so, why? If not, why not?
Enigma, also, some people suffer physically, and some suffer emotionally. We all suffer in different ways.
Should a person who was emotionally abused by their family ever be able to encourage a person who was physically abused by their family?
If so, why?
Bethany,
Could I get back to you later on this? I absolutely HAVE to edit and rewrite my paper. It’s my last final.
Yes, actually I was hoping to be able to get off here and clean the living room. Noah has just dumped a whole box of toothpicks on the floor and I need to pick them up. lol :) Have a good day and good luck on your final. :)
Thanks. After the last one, I’ll need it.
I think I figured out how to explain what it is that is wrong with this logic you are presenting. I don’t expect you to answer right away because I know you are busy, so don’t feel pressured.
What you are essentially asking me to do is to discriminate against disabled people, although I’m sure that’s not what you mean to do. You’re asking me to treat disabled people as different than me- as not “normal”.
Because the fact is that I would try to encourage ANY human being who felt that death would be better than life, in the same way, but refraining from encouraging YLT or someone else with a disability would be like pretending they was “different”, “abnormal”, not like me…
I want to treat a person affected with a disability the same way I would treat any person.
Yallas – you jump to conclusions so far off the illogical deep end that it is pointless to even entertain your questions much as it is pointless to discuss solar energy with an oilman.
Bethany,
I’m still not done, but things are going well. The paper topic makes me happy :)–so much better than those assignments you don’t get to choose.
“However, I would never stop you from encouraging me if I needed it regarding my children. For instance, say we’re close friends and you come over to my house, and it’s a total wreck and the kids are bouncing off the walls, and I’m looking absolutely miserable. I tell you that I’m at the end of my rope and I just don’t know what to do because the kids are uncontrollable- or something like that.
Would you refrain from encouraging me and telling me that I can overcome it, that things will get better, etc, give me ideas of what I might be able to do to relieve some of the tension- just because you do not have the unique experience that I have in actually having children?”
I’d compare the situation we’re talking about more with me giving you advice on how to discipline your children. General encouragement is fine; however, when you’re getting into specifics of how disabilities really aren’t that bad and can be overcome, then I’d say that you’ve strayed into territory where you don’t belong.
“Enigma, should a person disabled by blindness ever encourage a person disabled by spina bifida? Or a person with no arms try to encourage someone with autism?”
As I alluded to earlier, there are certain commonalities of experience among those who are disabled. You can relate to someone else’s experience in a way that you can’t if you aren’t disabled and can offer forms of encouragement you wouldn’t be able to if you didn’t have that shared experience.
“Enigma, also, some people suffer physically, and some suffer emotionally. We all suffer in different ways.”
Yes, but some forms of suffering can relate better to others. I’d almost like to make the “not all forms of suffering are created equal” argument, but with a stipulation: suffering is personal, and no one’s suffering should be viewed as any lesser or greater because of what someone else has gone through. (And yes, I am aware that I’m semi-contradicting myself–welcome to my world.)
“Should a person who was emotionally abused by their family ever be able to encourage a person who was physically abused by their family?”
Of course. I don’t say that people shouldn’t encourage each other (and if that’s the impression that you got, I apologize), but that we should be aware of the limitations of our own understandings and how that can hinder us when trying to encourage another.
In this case, I would also say that they have both suffered emotionally, since physical trauma is often accompanied by emotional effects.
Yallas – you jump to conclusions so far off the illogical deep end that it is pointless to even entertain your questions much as it is pointless to discuss solar energy with an oilman.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at December 19, 2008 5:10 AM
The questions asked of you are simple and easily answered by a intellectually honest person.
Supporting those questions are statements by me
which are easily understood by anyone with the honesty of inquiry.
More efforts should be made in promoting euthansia and abortion should be mandated by income. Yes or no?
All matters eventually become matters of finance.
Yes or no?
Your health was secured by force. The force of taxation. Yes or no?
A compassionate person would simply sacrifice their pain and suffering to society by euthanizing themself if unable to have the honor to just commit suicide, for the greater good of society.
Sepeku is honor. You state that pain and suffering are conquered in one last bold effort at restoring lost honor to a disability.
Have compassion YTL.
When I suggest that you have compassion and increase the greater good of society, you reach out for some ad hominem that ignores the logic of my arguments.
This suggest that your a hypocrite who doesn’t believe a word you preach YTL.
There are no conclusion being jumped to YTL.
I’m waiting your answers to logical questions and statements by me, YTL.
None will be forth coming, from your being a person that doesn’t believe what you preach for others, in the final conclusion.
Pro this, anti that, or whatever excuses you make to not answer simple questions asked of you YTL.
I’m still not done, but things are going well. The paper topic makes me happy :)–so much better than those assignments you don’t get to choose.
I’m glad you’re getting there, Enigma. Those can be very stressful, especially when you have such a short time to get it done. You’re a good writer so I am sure you’ll do very well.
I’d compare the situation we’re talking about more with me giving you advice on how to discipline your children. General encouragement is fine; however, when you’re getting into specifics of how disabilities really aren’t that bad and can be overcome, then I’d say that you’ve strayed into territory where you don’t belong.
You definitely misunderstood me if you felt that I was saying disabilities aren’t difficult or bad.
I agree with you that this would be inappropriate, if I were to say that, but I never made such a suggestion.
I said it was possible to overcome it, but I never, ever suggested or implied that disabilities are easy to deal with, and it would be extremely ignorant to do so.
As I alluded to earlier, there are certain commonalities of experience among those who are disabled. You can relate to someone else’s experience in a way that you can’t if you aren’t disabled and can offer forms of encouragement you wouldn’t be able to if you didn’t have that shared experience.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean that a non disabled person is not allowed to try to help a disabled person in whatever way they can.
If only the disabled can help the disabled, then that would mean only the poor can help the poor, only the depressed can help the depressed, and on and on and on it goes.
It’s great to get support from people who have been there and understand exactly what you’ve been through, but support is not limited to those who have been there.
I have been encouraged and helped through my miscarriage by some people who have never experienced one.
Yes, but some forms of suffering can relate better to others. I’d almost like to make the “not all forms of suffering are created equal” argument, but with a stipulation: suffering is personal, and no one’s suffering should be viewed as any lesser or greater because of what someone else has gone through. (And yes, I am aware that I’m semi-contradicting myself–welcome to my world.)
I agree that not all forms of suffering are the same. Like you said, no one’s suffering should be considered lesser or greater. We shouldn’t compare sufferings and feel like somehow superior because we’ve suffered any more or less.
You don’t know how much suffering an able bodied person has been through, and you don’t know how much suffering a disabled person has been through.
Even people who are disabled in the same way can have different sufferings and different perceptions on their disability.
All we can do is try to empathize as best as we can and try to be an encouragement to all who are suffering.
Of course. I don’t say that people shouldn’t encourage each other (and if that’s the impression that you got, I apologize), but that we should be aware of the limitations of our own understandings and how that can hinder us when trying to encourage another.
In this case, I would also say that they have both suffered emotionally, since physical trauma is often accompanied by emotional effects.
Yes, but see the one person could say, “I have suffered more than you, because I have been physically as well as emotionally scarred- and you have only been emotionally. Therefore you have no right to tell me I can overcome this. You have no right to try to act like you understand what I’ve gone through.”
BTW YTL,
Are you going to deny the honor of sepeku by thinking that sepeku is illogical too?
Sepeku is the conquering of a disability, by ending that disabilty with the fact you have regained your honor lost to that disability.
Well, unless you think your disability is a honor, which then makes you a hypocrite by ending your life by a appeal to kill yourself from that disability, and then disgracing the honor of that disability.
yllas
sepeku…umm sorry. I think you’re alone on this one.