Bristol Palin’s mixed message as this week’s People cover story
Bristol Palin and baby Tripp are featured on the mixed-message cover of this week’s People Magazine.
The photo is of a happy high school grad mom with her beautiful baby, while the caption reads, “Gov. Sarah Palin’s daughter talks about her life with baby Tripp. ‘If girls realized the consequences of sex, nobody would be having sex,’ says Bristol. ‘Trust me. Nobody.'”
There surely must be a better way to convey the combination abstinence/anti-abortion message.
The captions leading into the cover story are no better….
“‘This is hard…. I don’t think anyone realizes that it really can happen to you – like, in an instant.’ – Bristol Palin” “Breast-feeding before classes, staying in on prom night – the Alaska teenager graduates from high school and talks frankly about the highs and lows of her new ’24-hour-a-day job.'”
The highs are mentioned less frequently than the lows, although I realize care must be taken not to glamorize teen motherhood.
Bristol’s message to teens is also mixed, “a sort of abstinence-first strategy, backed up by education about birth control. ‘Abstinence is the safest way, but kids should know about everything else too,’ [said Bristol].”
I, too, think teens should be educated about contraceptives – that the Pill is composed of artificial female steroids that wreak havoc on a developing girl’s body and render long-term health consequences such as breast cancer and stroke; that all contraceptives have a pregnancy failure rate, particularly high among teens; that most contraceptives offer no barrier to STDs, some of which are incurable; that the 1 that does, the condom, has a high pregnancy failure rate and is not a sureproof guard against STDs either.
The problem with secular liberal news organizations covering this issue is they don’t delve into the multi-faceted reasons to deter sex until marriage, including the emotional scars of premarital sex, which predominantly exploits women, whose chemical make-up and rationale for sex are far different than men’s.
Without exploring the other facets, a story such as this gives more the message not to be stupid and use precautions when having sex, and if impregnated, abort to avoid such consequences as Bristol must endure.
That said, the article does state, “Bristol has said she never considered having an abortion,” which is important. And, of course, baby Tripp is testimony to Bristol’s decision to honor life. I also appreciate Bristol’s willingness to not only learn from her mistakes but attempt to educate others.
The story includes a sidebar, “Teen pregnancy on the rise.” The reason?
“[S]everal possible factors, including evidence that teens these days are less concerned about sexually transmitted diseases. Studies suggest that teens are having more sex and using less contraception….”
The proper message should be that teens are not animals who cannot control their sexual impulses. The abortion industry, of course, sends the opposite message. With good reason.
Interestingly, Bonnie Fuller at Huffington Post thinks the cover story photo spread is a “total promotion for teen pregnancy!… The inside article, with dreamy full page photos, might as well be titled, ‘I’m 18, a mom and HOT…and you can be too!'” It is true the photos alone send a different message, as I indicated at the top of this post.
[Photo attribution: People.com; HT: proofreader Laura Loo]

Tripp is a real cutie.
I say ‘whatever’ to all these people who think that if teen pregnancy is exposed that it will make other girls want a baby.
Guess what?! There are those girls out there who WILL get pregnant just for the ‘fun’ of it. I’ve seen and heard of this happening.
Those young ladies who choose to listen to the messages of those who have walked a mile in a teen mom’s shoes, like me, will benefit from these types of stories.
Bristol Palin is hardly an example for teens of what teen pregnancy and motherhood in America is like. Except that she is single. There must be a better way to impress upon vulnerable teens not to get pregnant.
Why is it with teen pregnancy stories the possibility of adoption is never raised?
It’s either keep the baby or have an abortionist kill it.
Meanwhile there are still thousands of couples who would give anything to have a child. A young teenager giving her child up to a loving home is doing an unselfish thing for the child.
They don’t stop and consider when they are only 30 or so they will already have a teenager!
uh, parents, this is not a girl thing.
You have to teach young men that they have to support their families. I have seen Bristol’s boyfriend and he easily looks healthy enough to work two maybe three jobs to support his family.
Sex is normal as are babies.
Abandoning your family is not normal.
Joanne, it’s not teen pregnancy that is the problem in and of itself. It’s unmarried teen pregnancy. Throughout time 30 something mothers have had teenage children.
For the past 30 years, we have raised our teens to be more like toddlers than adults. So instead of being ready for marriage and parenting at 18, our teens aren’t even ready to balance a checkbook.
This couples with the mess of single parenthood, and we have an “epidemic.” The reality is that teens are simply doing what they have always done in terms of having sex and children. The difference is that this no longer occurs within the bounds of a responsible marriage.
Honestly, I don’t know what to do with society as a whole. I will teach my own children to hold themselves to a responsible standard as teenagers and explain the role of sex within life. I’m not sure that message can be taught by a failing school system.
I just want to clarify that I know not ALL teen fit the discription I laid out above. There are loads of teens who are responsible. I’m just talking about general trends that are causing sociatal problems, not any particular individual.
Bristol Palin is hardly an example for teens of what teen pregnancy and motherhood in America is like. Except that she is single. There must be a better way to impress upon vulnerable teens not to get pregnant.
Posted by: Emma at May 27, 2009 2:30 PM
Why is Bristol a poor example of teen pregnancy….? Is it because she didn’t have an abortion, or because she’s “famous”?
Nine months ago the MSM told us her parents and their lifestyle were quite average at best. What better example for American teens.
Up until 35 or 40 years ago, our parents told us not to have sex outside of marriage if we didn’t want to be burdened with an unwanted pregnancy and abortion numbers were low before it was legalized. Just say “NO”.
When I’m 32 I’ll have an 18 year old…you do the math.
I wasn’t always a responsible parent, I have the cahoonies to admit that but what I don’t get is when people are always put down these young ladies can’t they think back to a time when they had children and you didn’t balance your checkbook right, when you raised your voice a little too loud, when you didn’t keep your kids sparkily clean all day, when you fed your kids take out food instead of the healthy food you had in your fridge, when you had an argument in front of your kids…I think this list could go on and on with not so perfect parenting skills.
But guess what? We’re all mothers, no matter what age you are. No matter what relationship status you are. Instead of talking down to all those misguided ladies why don’t you encourage them to do the best they can? Why do you always have to be so harsh just because they weren’t married, didn’t get their degree’s they wanted to, didn’t do things in perfect order?
Its amazing what one kind word will do for another mothers self esteem, take that moment to say ‘good job’ when you see a young mom handle a situation properly. If your a parent then I’m sure you’ve heard of positve reinforcement….
Posted by: hippie at May 27, 2009 2:47 PM
Here, here! Have you ever seen Bill Cosby talk about this issue? He’s great.
…when you didn’t keep your kids sparkly clean all day,
Posted by: AK Krystal at May 27, 2009 3:19 PM
I love it when they are filthy by the end of the day! That means it was a day well spent.
*correction, I didn’t do my math right…maybe it was because I was singing the ABC’s to my 2 year old…when I’m 33 years old I’ll have an 18 year old…**
AK Krystal, I was 17 when I had my oldest. I am right there with you! However, my point still stands. I’m not trying to bash teen parents. I know many who do a wondeful job.
My problem is with how society views teens and how this has affected those teens, not the teens themselves.
I applaud the teenagers who are responsible, but that doesn’t change the fact that today’s teens are expected, and even encouraged, to be irresponsible.
Sorry if that wasn’t clear in my original post. My point isn’t that teen parents are bad, but rather that our view of young adults is so low in our society that we have created a “problem” of what has historically been normal behavior.
I know many people think that there is something wrong with women who want to be moms when they are young, but scientific evidence shows first pregnancy from age 18-20 to be healthier than delaying childbirth.
For example, breast cancer risk rises the longer a woman delays childbearing.
If you enter your info on the breast cancer risk calculator, and then just change your age at the birth of your first child, you can watch how your risk rises the older you are when you have your first baby.
http://www.halls.md/breast/risk.htm
Now if delaying childbirth were healthy, breast cancer would not be more prevalent among those who wait and we wouldn’t mature sexually till later. However, that is not the case.
Since breast cancer is already very prevalent, anything that increases risk so significantly deserves serious attention. As a society we do just the opposite, we encourage women to wait and risk their health and their lives.
We need to get back to nature.
Yeah! Go teen pregnancy!
Yeah! Go snide remarks that do nothing to further conversation!
“Yeah! Go teen pregnancy!”
It’s better than abortion.
Emma, I can see the rude slime dripping off your comment. But as Janet said it IS better than abortion. Sure not all kids get the kind of tv fantasy life that America wants but you know what?
God has put all of us here for a reason, I guess some people see that while others don’t. Its all about choice right?
Oh and Emma, please bring something contructive to this blog rather than snide, immature comments. Those types of comments make people here think your a troll and just here to ruffle the feathers of others or worse they might think your comments are empty. Bring you A game to this blog Emma.
Great words of Carla, Don’t Feed The Trolls!
But not as good as not being pregnant in thefirst place.
Jill,
Your point here is an excellent one:
I, too, think teens should be educated about contraceptives – that the Pill is composed of artificial female steroids that wreak havoc on a developing girl’s body and render long-term health consequences such as breast cancer and stroke; that all contraceptives have a pregnancy failure rate, particularly high among teens; that most contraceptives offer no barrier to STDs, some of which are incurable; that the 1 that does, the condom, has a high pregnancy failure rate and is not a sureproof guard against STDs either.
Through my job, I occasionally give chastity talks to teens, and when I do, I cover information like the points included here.
That’s why I always find it laughable when our opponents accuse us, with a straight face, of deliberately denying kids “lifesaving information”.
John, I also agree with Jill’s point here I just think Bristol is either not informed about birth control methods properly or she is saying this to try to save face.
Who knows…this is just all frustrating me to in a way. While I will be teaching my boys about waiting for marriage I know that I can only educate them, I won’t be around for every little life problem. But I think if you tell your teen how much you care for their safety, how much you love them and how disappointed you would be if they were to engadge in these behaviors I think this would help the teen sex/pregnancy thing. Teach the teens about their bodies and the primary functions of it, tell them from a medical and spiritul side. Talk, talk, talk.
If you know of a teen who doesn’t have parents like this and you know they look to you for parental guidence then talk with them too! It takes a village to raise a child and this rule applies to teens too.
Ever remember when your parents said that ‘i’m very disappointed in you’ words and look, didn’t it make you want to crawl under a rock a cry a while?
I haven’t read this article or seen any of the pictures other than the cover one, but the impression I get from Bristol Palin is that, while she loves her son very much, she recognizes the ways in which having a baby as a teenage single mother has complicated her life. I think it’s important for teengers to recognize that having a baby as a teenager can have both good and bad aspects. If they don’t realize the good, they’ll immediately decide to have an abortion if they do get pregnant, and if they don’t realize the bad, they’ll get pregnant on purpose.
I recently attended classes regarding teen pregnancy and learned some alarming facts.
1 out of every five sexually active teenagers has an STD.
85% of these teens don’t know they are carrying an STD so therefore keep infecting others.
As Jill stated, condoms are not proving to be any type of safeguard against STDs or pregnancy. Prior to putting a condom on, there are plenty of ways STDs are passed on just by skin to skin contact. This little tidbit of information seems to get lost somewhere.
Due to oral sex, doctors are now seeing young women getting throat cancers like never before.
More teens are using condoms, but pregnancy rates are still on the rise. So much for promoting condoms as a “safe sex” method.
Sandy, I heard the rate of teen STD’s was 1/4.
But not as good as not being pregnant in thefirst place.
Posted by: Emma at May 27, 2009 4:08 PM
Emma,
Not being pregnant in the first place is what increases your risk of cancer. I understand some people don’t believe in science and don’t understand math, but the science and the statistics demonstrate that it is better to be pregnant in the first place.
I personally know people who waited to have children till they were 30 and got breast cancer, and died before they were 50 and never got to see their kids graduate, nor see their grandkids.
Would they have gotten cancer anyway, I don’t know but the statistics show that 60% of their risk was waiting. So probably, no.
Would they have had their kids sooner if people were telling the truth about the risks and if society weren’t glorifying delaying marriage and babies? I don’t know, but statistically the answer is yes.
When people know the risks, most (not all) make better decisions.
That is why people wear seat belts.
Hi Lauren,
I had heard that too, but the doc said 1of 5 teenagers are carrying an STD, but then it evolves into 1 of four adults who are carrying an STD.
What does the future hold? I feel sorry for singles trying to navigate through the world of relationships.
oops. I should clarify 1 of every 4 sexually active teens are carrying an STD.
oops. OK, one more time
1 of every 5 sexually active teens are carrying and STD.
More teens are using condoms, but pregnancy rates are still on the rise. So much for promoting condoms as a “safe sex” method.
Posted by: Sandy at May 27, 2009 4:27 PM
Contraceptive failure rates are higher for teens because they are more fertile. Nature planned for them to get pregnant.
Yeah! Go teen pregnancy!
Posted by: Emma at May 27, 2009 3:56 PM
This from the person who posted a bunch of half-truths on another thread then refused to discuss them when she was called on them. Yeah! Go ignorance!
Emma, might I point out that we are discussing the health benefits of 18-20 year olds having a first pregnancy? These are ADULTS. They, like Bristol, generally have or at least finish a high school diploma when they hold off on pregnancy until that age. In fact, they may even GASP! have an associate’s degree or higher by that age. (I started college at 15 while attending high school, as did my daughter… who at 16 has 22 college credits to her name.)
I had my eldest at 20… I turned 21 when she was 3-1/2 months old. The only thing it prevented me from doing was viewing the “drinking/bar scene” as a productive and enjoyable thing to partake in (as I wasn’t old enough prior to her birth and frankly, she was more fun that what my friends were doing drunk once I was.)
I am grateful for the health benefits. I, like the other nurses I work with who are in their late 30s/early 40s who began childbearing and rearing in their late teens/early 20s are often commented upon as looking far younger than our years… our kids keep us young! (In fact, most of us have over the “allowed” 2.1 children each… and we all have kids that cause others to be jealous of how well behaved and goal-driven they are.) Our kids have watched most of us go through nursing school and understand how hard we have worked to provide a good future for them… and it has paid off.
Breast cancer runs in my family. The statistics showing that delaying pregnancy can be a risk factor are highly important to me… as are the statistics about abortion and breastfeeding. My mother had breast cancer, as did her sister, her mother, her aunts, and her grandmother! Sorry, but I’ll take every shred of assistance that I can. Amazingly, what science is showing to “work” is utilizing the human body the way it was originally designed!… In other words, because I avoid hormonal birth control, I have had multiple children beginning in my early 20s, I have breastfed them all, and I haven’t murdered any of them… I will likely escape my family “curse”. My cousins delayed childbearing until their late 20s, early 30s (depending upon which cousin). We’ll see if that proves to be a differential factor. (We all have five or more children… I have no clue if my cousins had abortions and I have no idea if they breastfed.)
I have absolutely NO regrets. Because I had Alison at 20 my mother (a closet proabort who has a hard time even admitting it to herself) years later told a friend whose daughter had a baby at just-turned-15 that she knew EXACTLY what that friend was going through. Hello? World of difference between a college educated self-sufficent 20 year old and a dependent 15 year old (although to her credit, that young lady is now a paramedic working her way through nursing school and she is an excellent mother. I was privileged to attend the birth of that child, as well, and have been thrilled by the growth that young mother has evidenced in the past 4 years.)
My father was shocked and said, “Honey, don’t you want to accomplish a little more in life before you have a baby?” (Was there really an option at that point? I deliberately delayed telling my parents until 5 months along due to my mother’s threats of forcing me to have an abortion when I was a teen.) I said, “Dad… I’ve played at Carnegie Hall, I’ve toured Europe several times as a singer, I’ve had my work as a photojournalism printed as a full page spread in a major metropolitan newspaper… what precisely did you want me to accomplish first???”
As I feel my seventh child, and third son, kicking vigorously inside of me, I am once again in awe at how much I can love someone I have not even “met” yet. My three year old daughter cuddles against my belly and kisses all over, “I’m kissing my baby brother!” she says… My children know full well that children are humans from conception on… and we celebrate each and every birth. Although they occasionally get on each other’s nerves, they adore each other most days, have no conflicts that could be termed “sibling rivalry” and are not upset in the least when news of a new sibling comes to them… in fact, my eldest son (13), said a dinner prayer right after we found out the gender of this youngest and said, “Dear Lord, thank you for this food and for each other, thank you for our new baby brother, and could you send another one in a couple of years so that we’re finally even?”
I think perhaps Bristol made the statement that is on the cover because now she realizes what has happened to her life by not waiting until she was married to become sexually active.
And I’m sorry she didn’t consider adoption. She would have given her child a chance at a two-parent family and herself time to regroup and get her life in order.
I just think things will be so much harder for her now. But I’m very glad she didn’t abort her baby.
Thanks for that, Elizabeth. I had also graduated highschool and was in college when my son was born. I didn’t graduate early in order to start a family, but my decision to graduate early made things much easier when I became pregnant.
I won’t say that graduating highschool at 16 and starting a family is right for everyone, but it was right for me.
I’m not necessarily “sorry” she didn’t choose adoption. Yes, there are many couples out there who would love such a beautiful baby boy. However, she is blessed with strong family support that many young moms don’t have, as well as a wealth of experience in caring for children garnered through having younger siblings.
Having a child doesn’t always make it “harder” to regroup and get your life in order. Sometimes it is just the inspiration needed to do just that.
Kristen, don’t even bother. I have no time for you.
Hippie, any small health benefits there may be to giving birth as a teenager aren’t worth it to most women.
Kristen, don’t even bother. I have no time for you.
Hippie, any small health benefits there may be to giving birth as a teenager aren’t worth it to most women.
When Emma says “Kristen, don’t even bother. I have no time for you.” she really means “I am wrong and have no argument, so I’m just going to pretend that Kristen is stupid!”
You’re not fooling anyone, Emma.
Small health benefits? Seriously? Sorry, but for someone with my family history those are BIG health benefits.
Marauder 4:26PM
That was exactly the impression I got from the article as well. Bristol misses being young and free. Her plans for college in a “warmer state” are out the window. Yes she loves her son, but she could have waited 10 years and loved a child just as much.
Instead of partying with friends after graduation as even I the wallflower did, she’s at home getting the baby ready for bed.
She’s involved with legal hassles with the baby’s father and always will be. He sounds pretty low class, discussing his sexual relationship with Bristol on TV. She will always be stuck with him.
I think Bristol wants to get this message out to teens who think babies are something you put in the corner when you’re tired of playing with them.
Marauder, you have no idea the number of teens I have tried to talk out of becoming pregnant. These girls all too often live in a fantasy world.
BTW, Bristol said she was educated on birth control. Apparently this pregnancy was the result of a one time slip up. She and her boyfriend had been sexually active. She argues abstinence is the only guarantee against teen pregnancy.
No lauren, it really means I can’t be bothered with her.
I should have said in my 7:07PM post that this pregnancy was NOT the result of a first time unprotected sexual encounter.
Mary, agreed about the “put them in the corner when you are tired of them” comment.
Did any of you guys watch The Baby Borrowers? When we were watching the promos for that my oldest was laughing her butt off at how uneducated these young women were about what all raising a child entails.
in your family they might be large but to most women they aren’t and they aren’t worth it.
They aren’t worth it to YOU. You do not have the right to make that decision for other people. That is why acknowledging that science shows these changes in risk factor status is important.
How egocentric and arrogant to ASSume that because something isn’t important to YOU it isn’t important to “most women”…
No, Emma, it means you can’t be bothered with the truth.
Of course not… it is just way too much work to actually refute arguments. Making snide comments is so much easier… much less bother.
Are people on here really advocating teen pregnancy as a tool to combat breast cancer? BTW heart disease kills over ten times as many women. Maybe we should serve red wine at school cafeterias.
I also find it funny that people with a political agenda hype up the “side effects” of BCPs(especially when most are associated with higher estrogen pills), and say nothing about lexapro,viagra, and vioxx when all of those are significantly more dangerous. I also here nothing about the fact that the pill reduces the risk of ovarian cancer 6% per year. All drugs have risks, but I see a one sided presentation of the “facts” here. I might add that Yasmin helped me lose ten lbs, get rid of acne, and regulate my cycles.
“Hippie, any small health benefits there may be to giving birth as a teenager aren’t worth it to most women.”
Posted by: Emma at May 27, 2009 6:56 PM
Until it’s too late. Many people say it’s not worth it to quit smoking, lay off the fatty foods, exercise, finish high school, go to college, save money for retirement, you name it, because it’s not easy and takes self discipline. But let’s not be too quick to judge what is “worth it to most women”. I think hippie makes some excellent points.
Kate, the pill reduces ovarian cancer because it reduces the number of times a woman ovulates over the course of her life. Unregulated pregnancy and childbirth also have this effect.
We are saying that there are legitimate reasons for having children at a younger age than is typically recommended to young women of this generation. The problem is unmarried women having children. Married 19 year olds are not the problem. In fact, until the last 30 years or so they would be considered the most normal thing in the world.
That’s what we’re saying.
No, we’re stating that there are worse things in life than 18-20 year olds having children and that science supports the idea that this is how our bodies best function in order to avoid certain types of diseases.
It also illustrates that perhaps one of the “problems” with lumping this age group in with the younger teens and attempting to lower it is that it goes against biology. Biologically, we have either evolved or been created to have optimum health when reproduction begins at this age. Societally, it doesn’t work so well.
We have extended emotional adolescence and dependency to extend, for some people, into even their 30s and 40s. At the same time, improved health and nutrition has not delayed biology, as many women attempting first pregnancies in their late 30s/early 40s are finding out, sadly too late.
Not everyone has the resources economically, medically, and emotionally to give birth as a teenager and have ten plus kids. Times have changed. We don’t all live on the farm anymore. You can’t look at this through a 19th centery lense.
Exactly, Elisabeth!
Kate, as I pointed out, societally, things have changed.
However, biology has not, regardless of what century we are in.
Kate, you’re right. Society has changed to the point where we expect very little from teenagers and young people and they live up to those expectations.
That doesn’t mean that the 18 year old couple who marries out of highschool with a clear plan for their lives should be included in the scare statistics of teen pregnancy. I think that society would be better if more young people followed this model.
Elisabeth,
I never suggested it is wise to wait until the late 30s/40s to have kids. I’m well aware that fertility declines in a woman’s mid 30s. That hardly means it is irresponsible to wait until one’s mid to late 20s(when one has a chance to graduate college and be in a long term relationship) to have children.
I can’t bear to look at baby Tripp and then hear someone use the baby as an example of “why you have to be careful,” whatever that means. The juxtaposition on that magazine cover seems to suggest, “Look at this precious baby! Oh — but having this precious baby was a huge mistake, and, really, this beautiful baby right here never should have existed!”
Blech.
Decreased fertility begins in the 20’s for women. Also, someone who marries in their mid to late 20’s has probably had multiple partners and relationships which increase the odds of STD’s and unplanned pregnancies.
Kate, we are simply pointing out that for the 18 to 20 year old group, it is an individual situation. For some of us, it was the ideal time to begin our families. For others, it is not.
Biologically speaking, the odds were in our favor in terms of healthy mom/healthy baby.
Knowing my own oldest daughter’s goals, I will not be surprised to find that she does not begin a family until at least her late 20s. For me, I had reached a point where I had accomplished all of my major life goals and it was the process of having and raising my children that launched me to my next set of goals and successes.
It’s simply a more complex issue than Emma’s simplistic and snide “Yay for teen moms” comment allows for… which is what we were responding to.
I hope that makes sense.
Women in their late 20s statistically take slightly longer to get pregnant, but the longterm overall pregnancy rate is virtually the same. As for STDs and unplanned pregnancies, that is totally different issue that has nothing to do with egg quality.
Kate, we’re talking about an overall picture here. You can’t talk about sexual health of teenagers and not talk about std’s and unplanned pregnancies.
The healthiest thing for women is to have children early and have several children. Obviously delaying childbirth until the late 20’s does not follow this model.
I’m not saying that everyone should marry early and have children early, but those who choose such a path are choosing a statistically healthier path than those who choose to delay marriage and childbirth.
Right, Emma, you can’t be bothered to answer her factual statement, but you can be bothered to answer me three times. Right…
“Women in their late 20s statistically take slightly longer to get pregnant, but the longterm overall pregnancy rate is virtually the same. ”
Are you saying a woman will have her 2.1 children whether she has them between ages 20-30yrs. or starts later and has them between 30-40 yrs? Is this true?
Emma, just about any pregnant teenager could get on medicaid. So much for your healthcare argument. Unhealthy habits? Really, you have statistics on this?
Delaying childbearing does not lead to an increase in STDs. There is a difference between correlation and causation.
Janet,
I’m saying after it may take
a few months longer.
Lauren,
Here are statistics:
http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/why-it-matters/
So, admittedly, you’re not making an argument that can hold up to any sort of scruitany.
Kate, I never said that it was the actual act of childbirth that leads to lower std rates. It’s the lack of sleeping with multiple partners. Again, we are talking about sexual health as a whole, not simply pregnancy.
Emma,
How old are you? Your arguing like my 6 year on this forum!
Ladies, I in no way would want someone to be a mom when they’re not ready but guess what….it happens.
Not all teen moms have that support network but lets start telling them about those wonderful CPC’s!
I’m getting a headache just reading these ’emma’ comments….
Your article just says what we have been saying. The problem is unmarried, unwanted pregnancy.
We’re not advocating that. At all. We’re saying that getting married and having children in your late teens is not some great sociatal ill. Your article does nothing to disprove this.
I think perhaps Bristol made the statement that is on the cover because now she realizes what has happened to her life by not waiting until she was married to become sexually active.
And I’m sorry she didn’t consider adoption. She would have given her child a chance at a two-parent family and herself time to regroup and get her life in order.
I just think things will be so much harder for her now. But I’m very glad she didn’t abort her baby.
Again, Laura, we are talking about teenagers who are legally adults getting married and having children. We aren’t talking about 14 year olds who were raped by their 24 year old boyfriend.
Well, I don’t know what you “see” and “here” … but what I see and hear, as a registered nurse, goes along with the statistics. Women in the 18-20 year bracket don’t actually require a lot of “care” during their pregnancies… they are naturally healthier due to their age. They are less likely to have blood pressure issues, they are more likely to engage in physical activity which lowers risks, they are less likely to develop gestational diabetes even when they have poor diets…
Prior to working in pediatrics I worked labor and delivery and post-partum. I worked at a Catholic charity hospital and I had moms as young as 12, mostly Hispanic immigrants with little prior attention to healthcare. We had 6000 births each year in our hospital. It wasn’t usually the teens having the health issues… it was the older moms. Every now and then we would have a teen mom with a problem, but there were usually underlying previous health issues. For the most part the teens had an easier time delivering, they had healthier babies and they had an easier time breastfeeding.
Again, no one is arguing FOR teen pregnancy… we are merely acknowledging that this is far more complex than it appears when all “teen” pregnancies are lumped together. Societally, there are hurdles to be overcome for younger mothers. Physically, however, it is usually the easiest time for them to have children.
The younger the girl, the more likely sex was forced. Four in 10 girls whose first intercourse was at 13 to 14 report sex was unwanted. Posted by: Laura at May 27, 2009 8:54 PM
So you’re working hard to get PP and other abortuaries to comply with mandated reporting laws, right?
Laura, those are very true statistics that are completely beside the point. We aren’t discussing the under 18 crowd. We are speaking of 18, 19, and 20 year olds.
No, many teens don’t get and stay married. Society throws up a lot of obstacles to that happening. One of those obstacles is the assumption that they *can’t* accomplish that… in prior generations we expected young men to step up to the plate and support the young family they had created. These days it is expected that the girl will either have an abortion (or that the young man has a justifiable excuse to say, “Hey, I said I’d help her get an abortion, you can’t hold me responsible for THIS, I *tried* to be responsible!”) or that the father will abandon them and they will live the rest of their lives on welfare.
People, including teens, tend to live up or down to whatever the expectations are of them.
If the difference between a 19 year old with a high school degree and possibly college under her belt and a 13 year old who hasn’t even managed to get out of junior high and is completely dependent (possibly upon her abuser) is not obvious, I don’t know what else we can say. At that point it becomes a willful refusal to admit that there are any complexities to this issue that don’t necessarily condemn “teen” moms.
We have clearly been addressing 18-20 year olds. If you go back and read the posts you can see that clearly.
Again, would you care to elaborate on where you “see and here” all of your important observations? Are you a social worker working with teen moms? Are you a nurse? Where are you gathering a large enough experiential pool to draw your conclusions?
I’ve stated where my conclusions come from… I’m a registered nurse specializing in pediatrics who formerly spent two years in labor & delivery, antepartum and postpartum. I’m also a certified breastfeeding counselor and have worked with, literally, thousands of moms of all ages, the majority of them in the 17 to 25 year age range, although I have had patients as young as 12 and as old as their late 40s.
Please cite your sources for that for the 18-20 year old age group.
In addition, “haven’t completed their education” is misleading. What education? The vast majority of 18-20 year olds who intend to get a high school diploma have done so. Even if they haven’t and don’t, it doesn’t prevent them from getting a GED.
I’m a 37 year old married mother of 7. I haven’t “completed” my education, either, nor do I anticipate a time when I will feel that I have. Much of my specialized college work (as opposed to general education requirements which I completed in high school) has been accomplished while having children… the first of which was born when I was 20 years old.
There are plenty of people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, and beyond who get married and don’t stay married. And plenty of them have children, too. With the divorce rate as high as it is, I don’t think teens can be blamed as the only source of divorce or children who deal with divorce.
None of us are advocating FOR people to have children in their late teens. We ARE acknowledging that due to biology there are certain health benefits to having done so and that there is a difference between this group and younger teens that is not being adequately addressed by lumping them all together as “teen pregnancies”.
Obviously, and we have all stated this many times, it is not societally ideal to have children in that age group in the industrialized societies of today.
Perhaps when you’re done building strawmen arguments to refute you might try looking at the arguments that have actually been advanced and addressing THEM. I shan’t hold my breath.
Second hand information and a small sample pool. I supposed as much.
As for what age we were discussing:
Lauren at May 27, 2009 2:57 PM — So instead of being ready for marriage and parenting at 18
hippie at May 27, 2009 3:30 PM — scientific evidence shows first pregnancy from age 18-20 to be healthier than delaying childbirth
Elisabeth at May 27, 2009 6:31 PM — we are discussing the health benefits of 18-20 year olds having a first pregnancy
Lauren at May 27, 2009 7:28 PM — Married 19 year olds are not the problem.
Elisabeth at May 27, 2009 7:31 PM — No, we’re stating that there are worse things in life than 18-20 year olds having children
Elisabeth at May 27, 2009 9:02 PM — Women in the 18-20 year bracket don’t actually require a lot of “care” during their pregnancies
Are you really going to try to claim that you were unaware that we were discussing legal adults… people aged 18 to 20?
I have not stated that they are all married. I have stated that some of them are.
The discussion had nothing to do with younger teens with no high school diplomas, therefore there is nothing for me to address. Nice try, though.
We were discussing that the situation Miss Palin finds herself in, a high school graduate over the age of 18 raising a child with good family support is hardly the end of the world.
We have also discussed that at those ages some people are actually even married and may have some college or even an associates degree.
Once again, you are building up straw-men to refute as you are unwilling or unable to address what has ACTUALLY been stated… yeah, not ideal, and our society certainly doesn’t help… but far from the end of the world and biologically the norm.
Actually, that is ALL the discussion was about until you and Laura came in to discuss, apparently, only young teens in an attempt to refute the biologically correct assertion that (a) there are some health benefits to first pregnancy between 18 and 20 and (b) that there are worse things in the world than first pregnancy at 18 to 20.
The fact that you even CALL me a teen mother is laughable. I was 20, just a few months shy of 21. That is not a teenager at ANY time during my pregnancy.
We haven’t been discussing the entire teen pregnancy/parenthood situation… your snide comments and asides were directed to statements that, as I have clearly pointed out, were made about 18 to 20 year olds.
And really… your sample size is larger than several thousand? My sample size is several thousand FIRSTHAND and you’re going to tell me you’ve had a few discussions with some friends who are social workers and knew a couple of teen moms? In the age group we were discussing?
Perhaps you need to investigate why you are so clearly unable or unwilling to address what was *actually stated*… there are health benefits to first pregnancy between the ages of 18 to 20.
Um, no she is a spokesperson AGAINST teen parenthood.
And Emma, I maintain, that there are health benefits and whether they are valuable enough to any individual woman will depend completely upon that individual woman’s situation.
Unlike you, I don’t pretend to speak for “most women”… that would be egocentric and arrogant.
The fact is, there are statistically significant (that is using the word “significant” as a statistical term, not a value judgment) reductions in risk for certain very serious diseases for women who have their first child in that age range. In addition, there are statistically significant differences in the ability of that age group to conceive naturally as opposed to those in their 30s to 40s, which is the more societally acceptable time frame.
We have been continually pointing out that in this regard, society and biology are working at cross-purposes. Not a one of us has suggested that societally it is preferable to have children early, but we have pointed out that it is not necessarily the worst case scenario that it is made out to be, especially when lumped into the whole “teen pregnancy” problem.
Actually, she IS a teen parent who speaks out quite clearly AGAINST teen parenthood but FOR life.
The picture/article may be a mixed message… but Miss Palin is quite clear in her message.
Your virgin\whore complex over Palin is odd – you pump her up as a pro-life model child and then beat her down for not being exactly who you want her to be. Whats next, going after the Obama girls for not playing with the dog enough. Your constant microscopic criticism of her actually makes her look BETTER. No wonder people don’t want to identify with the pro-life movement… you’re like rabid wild animals – saving other peoples ” children” but thinking nothing of eating your own.
YLT… good drug trip tonight? That’s about how much sense you’re making…
Posted by: Lauren at May 27, 2009 7:03 PM
Thanks Lauren but Emma doesn’t bother me. I really have no tolerance for willful ignorance.
Hippie, any small health benefits there may be to giving birth as a teenager aren’t worth it to most women.
Posted by: Emma at May 27, 2009 6:56 PM
Like I said, many don’t believe in science and don’t understand math. For the person with a family history of breast cancer, earlier pregnancy is not much protection. However for the woman with no family history, it makes up the vast majority of the risk. I gave the examples. I pointed to the risk calculator.
The difference between a 7% risk and a 13% risk is about double.
A 7% risk of cancer is already enormous, and you think doubling that risk is small?
Your risk of ovarian cancer is 1.2%.
A study showed that taking the pill reduced it to 0.8% .
So your risk would go from very small to even a little smaller.
US News ran a story like this would save lives.
US News also noted that the Pill increases breast cancer risk.
The amount of increase in breast cancer risk is of course much larger than the decrease in ovarian cancer risks, but hey who cares these are just women, and selling drugs makes companies $$.
Some people just don’t get math.
The number of teen pregnancies for women 17 and under is very small.
Well over 90% of teen pregnancies are women 18-19.
I pointed to a complete analysis of the trend with charts, data etc.
The more immigrants we get, the more we will see younger moms because they follow their own cultural norms.
The real danger to mothers and children is single motherhood.
I really feel like I’m hitting my head against a wall.
Since some seem to be having problems thinking abstractly, I’ll create a little hypothetical.
Sally and Annie are both “teen moms.”
Sally is 18 abd married her highshchool sweetheart shortly after their highschool graduation and got married a few months later. They had both worked through highschool to save up money for their house, and her sweetheart now works 3rd shift at a factory where he makes decent money and has good insurance. They both plan to go to school once the baby is old enough to be away from Sally for a few hours a day. They have a clear plan for their lives, and their child fits into this plan.
Annie is 14 and became pregnant with her much older boyfriend. She is now taking classes at an alternitive highschool to try to finish up as soon as possible, but will still probably need 2 years to graduate. She and her baby live with her parents who help her with her childcare, but only to a point. The older boyfriend is out of the picture. Annie doesn’t know what she will do once she’s out of highschool, but is trying to plan for her future.
Obviously, Sally and Annie have very different stories. While both or niether may ultimately live happy, successful lives, it is disingenous to pretend that because they are both in their teens, they should be painted with the same brush.
Instead of wringing our hands over Sally, we should be working to figure out how to make sure that Annie is able to best overcome the challanges that lie ahead. That’s the point we’re trying to make.
That should read “got pregnant a few months later” not “got married a few months later.”
Sorry about that!
Emma, we aren’t saying that every woman should have a child in her late teens. We’re saying that for some women it is the best option. I suffer from clinical infertility. I can get pregnant, but it takes me much longer than most women. Had I waited until my mid twenties to start trying, I may never have been able to have a child. As it is, I have two.
No one is promised that they will be able to conceive when they finally feel ready. Because I very much wanted to be a mother, it would have been heartbreaking for me to have waited until my mid twenties or later, only to find that I could not conceive.
It is not so cut and dry as to say that it is always better for a person to wait until x year to get married and y year to have a baby. Life is much more nueanced.
No hippie, it’s not a lack of understanding of math or disbelief in science that’s keeping women from wanting to start having children between 18 and 20 years old. It’s because they realize there are some things that are easier to accomplish before ypu have children, they have other goals, and they may know that their quality of life will be better if they wait.
Posted by: Emma at May 28, 2009 8:25 AM
Quality of life? I addressed that. It’s called marriage.
What goals? The one’s imposed on them by a society that says being a mom is not an acceptable goal. I have plenty of friends who quit jobs in business, engineering, medicine to stay home with kids. Most working moms would rather quit and stay home. Not all but some.
When my mom was in high school, she was a good student and won a full scholarship. Her dad wouldn’t let her go, so she got married. She did her best, but really she would rather have had a career. Personally, I don’t think it’s right that she missed her chance to do what she wanted.
Now it is just the opposite. Colleges are filled with students in remedial classes. There are more women than men in college. And even many professional women leave the workplace to stay home. Personally I don’t think it’s right that women are pushed into careers if they don’t want them.
Women should be able to choose without people looking down on them.
Are some teen moms losers? Sure. And so are some college grads.
The real problem is the anti-marriage attitude and treating adults like children. 18 year olds are old enough to get married.
People used to do it all the time an it was fine. We just traded old problems for new ones. The real problem is men not supporting their families. As a woman, I am so sick of women constantly blamed for everything. You can’t get pregnant by yourself. How about a few more cover stories about the men who abandon their kids? How about shaming the fathers of these babies instead of always slamming mom?
Emma. Listen to us, don’t put a bunch of cotton in your ear. We know that unmarried parenting is the problem. We’re advocating marriage for the 18-20 demographic of parents.
These people do exist. I got married when I was 17. I know many, many couples who also married in their late teens. If more couples married BEFORE they got pregnant, many of the negative aspects of teen pregnancy would be eliminated. Actually, this goes far beyond just teens. More people in general should marry before having children.
Emma,
I showed the math and the science and you called enormous risks, small.
I pointed out numerical analysis of the trend that by far most of teen pregnancies were 18-19 and should more appropriately be grouped as 18-24 (the most fertile group biologically).
Your only comments are that things don’t work out well for teen moms more often than for older more educated women. Actually new studies have come out that show women 20-24 who don’t marry or get educated but get pregnant do about as poorly. It shouldn’t take expensive research to tell us that dysfunctional lifestyles don’t yield wonderful results.
If we convince people to wait, they won’t necessarily be more successful, just older.
Lauren I am not putting cotton in my ears. I’d suggest you are. I agree that single teen mothers IS the problem.
Your case and those you know , however, is not the norm.
Give women who choose education and careers more credit rather than say it is imposed on them and they dont fell free or aren’t wise enough tochoose what they want.
Posted by: Emma at May 28, 2009 9:06 AM
Did you read what I wrote? Many educated women quit working because they want to be moms. If they wanted the career, they wouldn’t quit.
Give women who choose motherhood as a career more credit for being wise enough and feeling free to choose what they want rather than follow what is imposed on them by a society that values work more than family.
Hippie, the quality of life issue refers to the mothers’ and the childrens’. And while marriage can improve that ( or not), teen mothers rarely marry.
Posted by: Emma at May 28, 2009 9:06 AM
In California 22% of teen moms are married, in Texas 27%. I don’t have stats for every state, but about a fourth is not “rare”. 100% would be best.
I bet most of the unmarried teen moms would have been willing to get married, but the loser dad abandoned her.
Before birth control, men were blamed for pregnancy, now women are.
Emma,
Not surprising on the 8%. California and Texas have more immigrants.
I agree that women should have choices and now have more choices. However, there is pressure on women to have careers even if they don’t want them.
It used to be conformist type women got married and had kids not careers even if they might rather have just had careers.
Now conformist types go to college even if only marginally qualified. That is why colleges have so many students in remedial classes.
I think the mistake is in thinking that if women do everything right, society will better and women will be happier, meanwhile not saying one word about how men fit into this situation.
If a woman drops out of high school, yeah that’s her fault.
However, if she gets pregnant, now I am saying it’s time for someone to man up and take responsibility for his family.
You know when some psycho kills his daughter because his daughter got pregnant, no one is saying, oh my my my teen pregnancy ruined her life. They blame the guy for killing her.
What ruins life for mom and kids is dad abandoning her.
Pregnancy itself is normal and healthy.
Men abusing women isn’t.
Hippie,
Interesting article on women and happiness. I’d be interested in your reaction.
http://open.salon.com/blog/rchaynes/2009/05/26/why_are_women_still_so_unhappy
Emma at May 28, 2009 8:49 AM — 2/3 of teen pregnancies are 18 and 19 year olds
Emma at May 28, 2009 9:01 AM — Lauren, we are “wringing our hands” over teen pregnancy because annie IS by far the norm for teen pregnancy
————————————————-
Um, which is it? 2/3 are 18 and 19? Or by far the norm is the under 18 crowd? Pick a statement please.
What is your source for 8% of teen moms are married?
In addition, does that include teen moms down to age 13? If so, how does that work out when you look JUST at the 18 to 20 age group?
Okay, but we aren’t talking about 15 to 19 year olds. We are talking about 18 to 20 year olds. What percentage of *them* are married?
Secondly, in the situation referenced, Annie was 14. This was your statement: “Lauren, we are “wringing our hands” over teen pregnancy because annie IS by far the norm for teen pregnancy ( though not always the extreme of 14 with a much older boyfriend).”
This doesn’t show that a differentiation between married and unmarried teens in the age group old enough to get married! This shows a differentiation between older and younger teens (although as you put it, not *always* the extreme of 14… although 14 is no longer the extreme. 12 is.) And this differentiation is exactly the point Lauren and I (and others) are trying to make here.
In most states 15 and 16 year olds can’t just go out and get married, at least not without parental consent.
So once again, is there a breakdown of 18-20 year olds in that study? If not, how is the statistic relevant when you’re including an age group that cannot make an independent choice to marry?
Since we’re unlikely to get a straight answer from Emma, I did some research myself. First of all… here’s the link so people can check for themselves: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstats.pdf
The last year with full statistics was 2002 (some of the data for 2003 was missing) so that is what I will use.
Total teen pregnancies for 15 to 17 year olds (regardless of outcome) was 4.23%.
This is compared to the 18 to 19 year old age group for which the total pregnancy rate was 12.5% in 2002.
In comparison, in 2002 moms aged 20-24 had a 17.24% pregnancy rate.
And, by the way, Guttmacher doesn’t even ADDRESS marriage statistics, so you still haven’t cited where you pulled those numbers from.
Looking at census data for 2004 (that’s the one I found) http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/marr-div/2004detailed_tables.html
We find that 15 to 19 year old women there have a marriage rate of 2.7%, while the 20 to 24 age group jumps to 26.7%. That is as much of a breakdown as I could get…
But I did find this interesting paragraph from the CDC: “A review of trends in birth rates by age shows strikingly different patterns. During the years 1990–2002, birth rates for unmarried teenagers declined while rates for women aged 20 years and over increased, although modestly (Figure 6 and Table 19). Rates for older women rose 1 to 2 percent per year. Since 2002, rates have increased for women in all age groups 18–19 years and older. The increase for ages 18–19 years averaged about 1 percent per year, with steadily larger annual increases as maternal age advanced. Birth rates for women in age groups 25–29 through 35–39 climbed 5 to 8 percent annually. Rates in 2006 for women aged 25 years and over were at least double the rates reported in 1980 (Figure 6). The sharp rise in nonmarital birth rates for adult women in combination with declines or comparatively smaller increases among teenagers has resulted in a continued shift in the age distribution of unmarried mothers. Whereas 4 in 10 nonmarital births were to teenagers in 1980, by 2006, this fraction dropped by nearly one-half, to just over 2 in 10 (39) (Table 18 for 2006 data).”
So, for children born out of wedlock… 20% are to teens, which includes every age under 20, many of which teens are not old enough to even be married without assistance and permission of their parents. 80% are to women aged 20 and older.
Seems like if out of wedlock births are the problem… then the teens aren’t the issue!
That last citation from the cdc can be found at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_07.pdf
The vast majority of shotgun marriages fail. A child born to a 30 year old single woman with with a $100,000 salary is going be much better off than a child born to 17 year olds who got married because they had to.
Could you guys pick what your issue is?
(And, btw, just how many babies are born to women with $100,000 salaries each year? For that matter, how many women even MAKE $100,000 salaries each year… and how many of them are young enough to still be fertile without massive medical intervention?) Seriously… I work my butt off for $50-75/year depending upon how many overtime shifts I have available that year…
In addition, this is not a listing of teen parents, but of teen pregnancies. Some of these end in miscarriage. Some, unfortunately, end in abortion. Others end in adoption… this merely lists the *pregnancy* rates…
Emma, don’t tell me to “look again”. Post your source.
Kate, it has been shown again and again that single parenthood, regardless of income, results in negative outcomes for the children.
Also, we are not necesarally talking about teenagers who got married because they got pregnant. There are plenty of teenagers who marry right out of highschool before becoming pregnant.
The vast majority of shotgun marriages fail.
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 11:57 AM
The majority of marriages fail period. So what’s your point?
Posted by: Emma at May 28, 2009 12:59 PM
Maybe for that parent. There are studies upon studies that show it is NOT better for the children – especially girls with no father at home.
My point is that a far higher percentage of shotgun marriages fail.
Posted by: Emma at May 28, 2009 1:04 PM
Ever hear of adoption?
Posted by: kate at May 28, 2009 1:06 PM
Source please.
You really need a source for common knowledghe?You don’t even know the difference between majority and vast majority. Also, the majority of regular marriages do not fail. It is 50/50.
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 1:10 PM
Common knowledge? Then it shouldn’t be hard for you to find a source. What’s the hold-up?
I would agree that single parenthood is preferable to some situations, such as those involving abuse.
That doesn’t make it ideal, just less harmful.
However, despite the media hype, the statistics show a very different picture of pregnancy, wed or unwed, teen or adult, in the U.S. today.
As for what I say… I recommend examining adoption as an alternative and building a strong network of support through family, friends, school, community, whatever is appropriate for that mother so that she can have the necessary support should she decide to raise the child alone. Those supports make the difference between a successful outcome for both mother and child and an unsuccessful outcome for either or both.
Also, the majority of regular marriages do not fail. It is 50/50.
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 1:10 PM
“65% of new marriages fail.” This includes 2nd and 3rd marriages too but why shouldn’t they be counted? 50% of FIRST marriages fail. And if your first marriage fails you are more likely to get another divorce. 75% of divorced people get remarried.
Oh, and here’s my source:
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html
Here’s an article on the increased rate of divorce in teen marriage. This includes those who get married by choice, so any intelligent person can figure the rate will be that much higher for those who “have” to get married
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/teenage-marriage-drops-in_n_123846.html
I suspect you’re sending me on a scavenger hunt for academic sources because you realize you’re wrong. Ask any marriage therapist, they all know shotgun weddings are a trainwreck! Even Dr.Phil said that when people are madly in love they have a 50/50 chance at making it, so when they are forced to marry they don’t stand a chance. Thankfully these shams are becoming a thing of the past.
If I’m talking to an unmarried pregnant teenager I try to give her all the resources possible to help her beat the statistics.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t try to help other women avoid the less than ideal situation.
First, why do you assume all teen marriages are shotgun marriages? Remember, we’re talking about legal adults… 18 to 20 year olds (why does that seem to elude you guys?)
Second of all, yes, you’re right, we need to work harder to support people of all ages in their ability to face the hard work that marriage can be rather than just taking the “easy way out” that divorce is advertised as being… only to find it isn’t so easy after all. (Wow, sounds just like the abortion issue… here, just have this abortion and it’s all over… or is it? Apparently not for many, many post-abortive sufferers!)
And Emma, Lauren and I are the ones saying it CAN be done… so why would Lauren be telling teens not to even go there? Sounds more like the logic of a pro-abort to me… you’ll suck as a parent and your life will be ruined so you should go ahead and kill your baby now so you don’t ruin both your lives.
These shams? Are you serious? Here’s a brilliant idea for everyone. Don’t have sex with someone you wouldn’t raise a child with. Pretty simple. If you’re having sex with your boyfriend who you love deeply, it shouldn’t be much of a stretch to get married.
If your having sex with the random stranger you met at the party, maybe you should question who you sleep with.
A marriage is what you make of it. I wouldn’t call anyones marriage a “sham” unless they were literally married only for show and were both sleeping with other people.
I suspect you’re sending me on a scavenger hunt for academic sources because you realize you’re wrong.
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 1:19 PM
Huffington? Really? Come on, wouldn’t you insist on academic support for an argument? This says NOTHING about shotgun weddings and, like it or not, when a child is involved people tend to work harder at saving a marriage.
Your blasé attitude toward providing sources for your comments speaks volumes. Personally I wouldn’t have thrown out a comment like that without being able to back it up with actual facts, but whatever.
Yeah, HuffPo is just so extremely credible.
/sarcasm off
Please note that we are doing our best to substantiate all of our claims with the best statistical data available to us. (And are doing so quite successfully.)
You throw out HuffPo and Emma goes on about info she got second-hand and hasn’t read the original data herself…
Posted by: Emma at May 28, 2009 1:18 PM
My sister gave up a baby for adoption when she was 18. She knew the baby would be better off because the father was a loser and we had grown up without a father present. She knew it would be a better life. She had our support no matter what she decided but she wanted what was best for the baby and our support helped her because she knew we’d be there for her during and after.
What? Do you tell a pregnant teen to kill her baby because she’d be a bad parent?
I never advocated sleeping with just anyone. My point is to not make a bad situation worse by entering a loveless marriage, especially without any resources. This helps no one, including the child. Every situation is different, but a pregnant 17 year marrying a high school drop out isn’t going to be swell for anyone involved! Even if they do beat the odds and stay married, so what? They still will be settling for a life of misery. I’ll take college and marrying the right man(or at least one with a degree) any day over a minimum wage job, life in the trailer park and being stuck with some loser. And yes I would consider Levi Johnston a loser.
Kristen, I don’t tell a pregnant teen what to do. I am prochoice.
Elizabeth, give me a break. Secondary sources are cited here ad nauseum.
Besides all that you could consider my marriage a “shotgun” really, although we were engaged when I found out I was pregnant. We now have 6 beautiful kids and will be married for 15 years in Nov.
Has it been easy all the time? No. I used to say I was ready for divorce for the first five years of marriage. But we WORKED on it and now I’m happier than I could ever have expected. The difference is that I didn’t want my kids to grow up without a parent and my husband was just as committed to that as I was. It also helped that we are both fairly religious and didn’t subscribe to the “what I want now” belief that so many people do today.
Lovely attitude… seriously… they are doomed to a life of misery? There is no way they can further their education or make anything positive out of their lives? Wow, aren’t you just a ball of sunshine.
I’ve seen younger moms and dads use their children as impetus TO succeed. (Love your requirements though… because a degree guarantees a guy isn’t a loser, right?)
Secondary sources are cited here ad nauseum.
Posted by: Emma at May 28, 2009 1:42 PM
Really, you just sound more ignorant every post!
“But a confluence of trends, including contraception and increased career opportunities, has turned forced matrimony into a relic of another era — and certainly not the route to domestic bliss.”
“The combination of unplanned pregnancy and youth raises the risk for divorce, said Stephanie Coontz, a historian at Evergreen State University.”
http://www.ajc.com/health/content/shared-blogs/ajc/parenting/entries/2008/09/09/does_getting_ma.html
I can’t believe there are still people who need experts to believe shotgun marriages are a bad idea.
Secondary sources are cited here ad nauseum.
Posted by: Emma at May 28, 2009 1:42 PM
Really, you just sound more ignorant every post!
Posted by: Kristen at May 28, 2009 1:44 PM
———————————————-
And I didn’t even think that was possible…
Kate, your setting up a false dichotomy. My husband and I were both in college when I got pregnant. So we decided to get married. No trailer park or minimum wage job included. My husband did work a manual labor job for several years until he found a job making better money.
We also are both still college students, even though we are older than most of our classmates. That’s ok.
I know that our situation is unique in that both me and my husband are driven, intelligent people. However, there are many others on this site who also became pregnant outside of marriage who are living happy successful lives.
We don’t all fit into the stereotype of lowclass, uneducated, unfit parents. Our point is that there is hope for people who have children in their late teens. They and their can become productive members of society.
I believe encouraging marriage helps achieve this goal, but I also realize that we need to do a lot of work to teach our teens what marriage means.
Actually, we need you to prove that there are masses of “shotgun” weddings occurring… otherwise it’s just another strawman. No one has said shotgun weddings are peachy keen great! We’re saying that marriage as a whole is not surviving well these days and that it requires work. Whether a young couple is up to meeting that challenge is very individual and is more likely to occur when they have societal support rather than the sniping condescension they receive on a regular basis. (Trust me, Lauren and I know all about that! Anyone who marries young hears all of the horror stories regularly.)
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 1:44 PM
Yet again, no statistic on shotgun marriages. I can’t believe that some people can’t find a source for something that is “common knowledge.”
Posted by: Emma at May 28, 2009 1:47 PM
Yes, I think that would have been best. But again, it takes work just like ANY marriage. It’s not doomed because she was pregnant before they were married.
And I’ll repeat myself: She is a spokesperson AGAINST teen parenthood. What about that is so hard for you to understand?
And she’s a pretty good example of how a good kid can make bad choices… and how what looks like a knight in shining armor can turn out to be a real dud. However, as I have stated, she has good family support and experience with children. She has finished high school. She is a legal adult. There are far worse circumstances the girl could find herself in. Does she now have to work a little harder to achieve whatever her dreams might be? Sure. But she also has someone to work hard FOR.
What happens now is really up to her.
I can’t really speak to her particular situation because I don’t know him or her. I think that it is obvious right now that he needs to mature before he will be a good father, but I don’t think his immaturity necessarally means he will always be a bad father.
I was saddened to hear that they called off the wedding, but again, I don’t know enough about the situation to really make a judgement as to if it is the best for their situation. Statistically, it would be better for them to marry. Of course, as we’ve shown, statistics don’t tell the whole story. I hope that no matter what Levi remains involved in Tripp’s life.
As for Bristol speaking out about abstinance: I think that she is a fine spokesperson. Obviously she can speak to both the joy and hardship of parenthood in a way that is accessible to young people. I think the best message on teen parenthood is an honest one, and she seems to deliver that.
I’ve cited experts. I’ve shown studies that teenage marriages fail. You just keep sending me on scavenger hunts because it is obviously true that shotgun marriages fail. Expecting academic sources is ridiculous when most don’t even appear in a google search! Show me you’re academic sources that shotgun weddings have a high success rate. Expert after expert will tell you shotgun wedding are bad ideas!
I also have to ask if most of the people on here are advocates of abstinence only education considering most didn’t seem to practice it. Were you all not aware of birth control?
Wow. I keep reading and haven’t wanted to hop in…yet. :)
I am not sure why but I get this feeling that there is an absolute sense of entitlement when it comes to marriage, family, children etc. I keep hearing it over and over. I will get my degree and find the right guy and we will get married and have babies and make money. Trials? What trials?
If only life worked out that way. I struggled with infertility, not to mention the after affects of abortion and also had two miscarriages. My husband was laid off when I was about to deliver 2 of our 4 children. We were in debt up to our eyeballs and the pressure to divorce was overwhelming. All in 15 years.
Life happens. I prefer to stick it out and count my blessings, and keep my expectations in check.
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 1:57 PM
I don’t believe I’ve claimed they are any more or less successful than others. YOU made the claim, I’m simply asking you to back it up. Your experts have said nothing to back up your statement. Why is this so difficult for you to understand. You cannot take one statistic and apply it at will to another situation. That’s basic.
I think it’s obvious that between Lauren, Elisabeth, and I that we have worked on our marriages and they are successful. We were all young so our experience speaks the opposite of what you have cited. And AGAIN I say you have cited NOTHING that speaks to your claim.
Why should I not ask for a source?
For those who promote low expectations, read The Master Key System. Life doesn’t have to be a series of struggles.
Kate, I had typed up a rather long explanation detailing my situation, but ultimately decided that the details of my adolecent sex life weren’t really any of your business.
Suffice it to say that I was perfectly aware of birth control and had been on it for some time.
I was aware of the risks I was taking by not using birth control and fully accepted the concequences of those actions. Though our pregnancy was not planned, it was also not a catatrophe.
Kristen,
“But a confluence of trends, including contraception and increased career opportunities, has turned forced matrimony into a relic of another era — and certainly not the route to domestic bliss.”
“The combination of unplanned pregnancy and youth raises the risk for divorce, said Stephanie Coontz, a historian at Evergreen State University.”
Who’s promoting low expectations?
Posted by: Carla at May 28, 2009 2:01 PM
That reminds me of a guy friend of mine! He constantly said he’d never marry a girl without a college degree, that he wanted his “toys” and travel before he had kids, blah, blah, blah.
Well, at 37 he finally did get married. To a woman who had no degree, had a hysterectomy and was unable to have children, and held a minimum wage job. He passed up a lot of great girls and he said, on his wedding day, that he was marrying this woman because it was the best he could do.
Needless to say this guy is a jerk but that’s what you get when you put material things before what’s important. I feel very sorry for his wife and their marriage is not a happy one.
“The combination of unplanned pregnancy and youth raises the risk for divorce, said Stephanie Coontz, a historian at Evergreen State University.”
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 2:07 PM
And she gets this from where? SOURCE PLEASE. I know it’s a difficult concept. This is an OPINION without a source. Is it getting through yet?
And that proves what kristen? I can name you a lot of women who refused to settle and married great catches(succesful, attractive, intelligent). I’m realistic. I know my chances of getting one of this guys isn’t too good if I live in a trailer park, weigh 200 lbs, and have BO. I said getting a degree to contrast a some redneck who makes minimum wage. It really isn’t a strict requirment. Is your point that women should marry whoever because someone else might not come along because I’d rather be alone than married to the likes of Levi Johnston.
For those who promote low expectations, read The Master Key System. Life doesn’t have to be a series of struggles.
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 2:05 PM
Please get off your high horse. Low expectations? Didn’t Lauren say she was in school? Haven’t I said I was happy? Hasn’t Elizabeth stated how happy she is? These are “low” expectations? These are the best expectations you can have in life.
If you want to see an academic source regarding shotgun weddings find one yourself. It’s not too easy using google. Her opinion stands on her merits. She has far more education and expertise than you.
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 2:18 PM
The guy I referred to has a master’s in finance from Northwestern and makes a ton of money. Hardly what people would refer to as a “redneck.” He’s a jerk and had the wrong priorities.
Where would you get he was a redneck if I said he wouldn’t marry a woman without a college degree? Logic would follow he also would be educated.
Wow, Kate, you sure seem like a loving person. Such high regard for those you feel you’re above.
Have you tried “google scholar”?
It’s not too easy using google.
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 2:21 PM
AND THERE WE HAVE IT! No source. Thank you. The fact of the matter is there IS NO STATISTIC about shotgun marriages. (And I did look BTW – when you first made the claim.)
I don’t know about you but I took Logic and Statistics in college. Never would one of my profs let me get away with what you just did.
She’s a HISTORIAN – that hardly gives her credibility with marriage “facts.”
I never assumed that guy was a redneck. I was refering to many of the men involved in shotgun marriages. Levi Johnston was who I was thinking about primarily. Marrying him would be settling. I’d personally prefer someone comparable to Andrea Casiraghi or Bill Hemmer.
I he is a jerk that might explain why he had trouble finding a wife.
It’s not too easy using google. Her opinion stands on her merits. She has far more education and expertise than you.
Posted by: Kate at May 28, 2009 2:21 PM
AND THERE WE HAVE IT! NO SOURCE!
I don’t know about you but I took Logic and Statistics in college. Never would my profs let me get away with what you just did. You can’t make a claim with noting to back it up. There are no statistics regarding shotgun marriages (BTW – I did look when you first made the claim) and you cannot apply the stats of one issue to another.
She’s a HISTORIAN, how does that give her expertise in current marriage and divorce rates?
A Struggle Free Life? Awesome. I gotta get me some uh that.
Oops, thought my post was lost b/c I got disconnected from the net. Mods, sorry for the double post!
Posted by: Carla at May 28, 2009 2:32 PM
LOL! :) Good one Carla!
Bobby, how’s that bambino? I bet big sis’ is just ga ga over her.
Almost all the women in my husband’s family were pregnant before they married, and they were all around age 18-19. (My husband’s parents were the only ones out of all the aunts and uncles who were not, interestingly enough.)
All of them got married, and the majority are still married to their first spouses and went on to have more children who are now grown.
It seems that what has changed over the years is not the fact that people get pregnant, but what they DO when they get pregnant. We’ve erased love and responsibility from the equation.
If today’s teens aged 18 and 19 aren’t mature or responsible enough to take care of the children they create (or place them for adoption), then in my opinion they are not ready to deal with sex and its possible consequences. The problem is the way this culture is treating teens (or rather, 18 and 19 year old young adults).
They’ve been taught they can be “ready for sex” whenever it “feels right” as long as they are “safe,” even at age 14 or younger. Doesn’t seem to be working very well, because they’re not ready, emotionally, physically, or mentally. 1 in 4 (or 5) has an STD. Most of them have comprehensive sex ed in the schools and know how to use birth control, but at age 14, they don’t have jobs or checking accounts, and if they do, they don’t know how to balance their own checkbooks. But they know all about how to put the condom on the banana.
And still, it doesn’t seem to be working. Maybe it’s because we haven’t told them “now is not the time for sex, it’s time to plan for your future goals.”
We’ve set the expectation bar lower and lower, and what we’ve received is lower and lower outcomes. Maybe our parents weren’t so stupid after all. Maybe they had it right: work hard, accept responsibility for your actions, and don’t expect the world to be handed to you on a silver platter.
Yeah, Gianna loves her little sister. She gives her big kisses and pets her head a lot.
Aniela is actually sleeping 3 or more hours at a time at night, which is pretty incredible. And she’s doing great. Perfectly healthy, happy, things are a-ok.
I feel like I haven’t even really begun having children in the sense that I hope I”m just getting started. I simply can not see where this “2 kids is plenty” “how many children are you going to have?” “I don’t want anymore” attitude comes from. No religious claims or anything like that, just from a purely humanistic POV, so far I am bewildered as to why people “stop” after two children. I want to be flooded, I want to fill my house with children. I want them everywhere; hanging from the ceiling, in the cupboards, popping out behind the sofa cushions. Perhaps in a couple months I won’t think this way, but I don’t know…
I completely agree, Kel!
Bobby, I laughed really hard at the idea of a bunch of baby bambinos hanging from the ceiling. :)
I’ve been doing a scholarlly search for the outcomes of young marriages.
So far I’ve found this. It does nothing to further either argument, but it’s interestingish.
Despite drastic changes in the American family, a significant minority of Americans marry early. Using data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (N = 14,165), this study evaluates the prevalence and antecedents of early marriage in the United States. The results indicate 25% of women and 16% of men marry before age 23, and early marriage varies widely across a number of characteristics. Individuals who marry earlier are more likely to be from disadvantaged families, from conservative Protestant or Mormon families, to value their religious faith more highly, to have a high-school diploma but a lower educational trajectory, and to cohabit before marriage. Scholars and policymakers interested in marriage should pay adequate attention to understanding and supporting these individuals’ marriages.
Early Marriage in the United States
Author(s):Uecker, Jeremy E.; Stokes, Charles E.
Source:Journal of Marriage and Family, v70 n4 p835-846 Nov 2008. 12 pp. (Peer Reviewed Journal)
It seems to me they may be looking at two subsets of people here. The more religious individuals are most likely not the ones who are cohabitating prior to marriage. That begs the question of where do the religious youngsters fit into the education/ economic paradigm.
I’ll see if I can find out more.
I am bewildered as to why people “stop” after two children. I want to be flooded, I want to fill my house with children. I want them everywhere; hanging from the ceiling, in the cupboards, popping out behind the sofa cushions. Perhaps in a couple months I won’t think this way, but I don’t know…
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at May 28, 2009 2:48 PM
******************************************
Well, I originally stopped after two because our son is… how can I say this nicely? EXTREMELY strong willed. I’m not talking every day, run of the mill strong willed, I’m talking EXTREME. (I know that God has a purpose for putting that character trait in him so strongly, I’m just waiting to find out what it is… :D ) Plus, when he was born, we almost lost him and it was hard for me to imagine going through such a trying time again. I love him so much and yet he challenges me like no one else in my life ever has. It’s astounding, and often frustrating to the point of tears (from both of us). I hope this doesn’t sound like my son ruined all our “plans” or something. It’s just difficult when you have a child who is as strong-willed (if not more so) as you are, and I know my emotional limits. :D
Took God 7 years to change my stubborn heart, and now our 3rd is due in August. I wish you well, Bobby. We need more godly kids in this world. :)
Ok, this study is from 1988, so take it for what it is, but…
“New studies demonstrate that many teen marriages are more resilient than had previously been believed; current policies promote single parenthood for teen mothers in the face of very little systemic information about young fathers and their potential for being providers, husbands, or parents. Marriage is a feasible option for many pregnant teenagers”
Hasty Marriages or Hasty Conclusions?
Author(s):Vinovskis, Maris A.; Chase-Lansdale, P. Lindsay
Source:Public Interest, n90 p128-32 Win 1988.
And here’s this blast from the past circa 1976
The marital histories of 203 young women who became premaritally pregnant in their early teens and 90 of their classmates most of whom married before pregnancy show that disruption in the courtship process and limited economic resources are the most important factors in marital dissolution. (Author/AM)
Kel,
Thank you so much for sharing. I read something last week that actually made me change my interior disposition the other night when I would have otherwise been brooding and harboring feelings of resentment or frustration. It basically said that because of God’s providence and because everything that happens is in accordance with God’s will, EVERY SINGLE SITUATION you find yourself in is EXACTLY where God would have you be at the moment. You can not submit yourself to God’s will more perfectly than to joyfully do whatever it is that you must do at the moment. So when the baby cries at 4 in the morning and I have to get up with her, there is nothing in the world that God would rather have me doing than that. Absolutely nothing. I need to find the exact quote because he said it just so perfectly, but that was the idea.
And what you said about your son reminded me of the quote. As you know, Kel, God would have your son be no other way, and when he frustrates you, that is exactly the situation that God wants you to be in. Not saying he wants you frustrated, but that you being in a less than ideal situation with him is in accordance with God’s perfect will.
It’s just that in prayer I always say “I just want to do your will Lord, I just want to do your will” but that seems to be about as far as it goes. Having to clean the bathroom when I’d rather watch basketball, getting up in the middle of the night when I’d rather sleep, THAT is God’s will, and yet I grumble and complain about it in my mind. Definietly something I need to change.
I just wanted to share that. :)
And what you said about your son reminded me of the quote. As you know, Kel, God would have your son be no other way, and when he frustrates you, that is exactly the situation that God wants you to be in. Not saying he wants you frustrated, but that you being in a less than ideal situation with him is in accordance with God’s perfect will.
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at May 28, 2009 3:11 PM
Bobby,
I used to pray to God for help with patience. I was really frustrated because I felt like I was struggling with it all the time, especially in regards to my son. My mom finally said God IS helping you. You need practice and God is giving you situations so you can practice. It all made sense then. After that I had a different attitude and my son never seemed to test my patience quite so much. Something I’m sure had nothing to do with him and everything to do with my change in perspective.
Just wanted to say that after our son and daughter were born everyone was thrilled and assumed I was done. After all, we had one of each, boy and girl, perfect.
2 more makes 4. :)
Bobby,
I am looking forward to hearing more about your growing family.
Posted by: Lauren at May 28, 2009 2:54 PM
Lauren,
That’s interesting because every study I’ve seen rates divorce among people that cohabit before marriage to out pace people who don’t by a large margin.
The following is from the site I linked to earlier:
Among the findings in this report: unmarried cohabitations overall are less
stable than marriages. The probability of a first marriage ending in
separation or divorce within 5 years is 20 percent, but the probability of
a premarital cohabitation breaking up within 5 years is 49 percent. After
10 years, the probability of a first marriage ending is 33 percent,
compared with 62 percent for cohabitations.
Posted by: Carla at May 28, 2009 3:32 PM
I heard that too after my first two (girl and boy respectively.) When I was pregnant with my third someone actually said to me “Who has the hot pants?” Can you imagine?
Mmmm, beautiful, Kristen. Amazing what a change in focus/perspective can do :)
I’m with you, Bobby… our house is far from full (although most people would say it was overly full!)… we were just talking yesterday about how we could put another bed into each of the kids’ rooms upstairs and have room for at least 3 more that way…
And what you said about your son reminded me of the quote. As you know, Kel, God would have your son be no other way, and when he frustrates you, that is exactly the situation that God wants you to be in. Not saying he wants you frustrated, but that you being in a less than ideal situation with him is in accordance with God’s perfect will.
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at May 28, 2009 3:11 PM
Bobby,
I used to pray to God for help with patience. I was really frustrated because I felt like I was struggling with it all the time, especially in regards to my son. My mom finally said God IS helping you. You need practice and God is giving you situations so you can practice. It all made sense then. After that I had a different attitude and my son never seemed to test my patience quite so much. Something I’m sure had nothing to do with him and everything to do with my change in perspective.
Posted by: Kristen at May 28, 2009 3:31 PM
************************************
I agree with both of you, that God is trying to change my perspective on things. However, it is not only me that my son chooses to “test.” It’s his dad and grandparents, as well. So maybe we’re all supposed to learn something…lol!
I know he is who he is for a reason, but I also know that defiance is not acceptable, and that is what I deal with much of the time. We have tried many, many things. Some things seem to work for a while and then we have to change our strategy. Things have never been that way with our daughter, but everyone says “wait till she’s a teenager.” :D Ah, yes, how well I remember my “wonderful” teenage attitude…
Posted by: Kel at May 28, 2009 5:13 PM
LOL! I hear you. I agree defiance is not acceptable although I have to admit I was a little to rigid with him. My daughter would do something out of character and I wouldn’t be too hard on her but my son would step one toe out of line and I’d be all over him. I had to ease up too.
I’ve caught myself doing that before. One of my main frustrations with him is (besides defiance), he just refuses to try. We homeschool, and I was almost at the end of my rope this year with him… but I’m going to stick it out and keep going. With God’s help!!
I joke that the problem is, he is a little me, only with testosterone. (Must be that pesky testosterone that’s the issue! LOL!)
Kel,
I have a couple strong willed ones. They will be out there someday DOING what they are so convicted to do and CHARGING up those hills!! Time to break the will and not the spirit. :) So with ya, Kel.
In looking over this conversation, you all must think me horrible! I guess when I tried to answer your question, Bobby, it drew my parenting style under scrutiny. The truth is, no one knows what I deal with here on a day to day basis. No one except me and the Lord. The fact that it’s not only me who has trouble dealing with my son is proof enough for me that I’m not completely at fault for his behavior, which has been difficult from day one. I pray for divine patience every day. Could I use more? Of course.
I recall one holiday when my son was with us at the in-laws’ house, and he would not stop screaming (he refused to nap anywhere but in his own bed). More than twice, my mother-in-law questioned me if he would be alright from crying, or if he might vomit. I was used to him screaming his head off and I said he’d be fine. She continued to question me. After apologizing for having to leave early, I took our son home so he could get some sleep in his own crib. He fell asleep immediately. My in-laws wondered what had gotten into me. What “got into me” was that my parenting was called into question, and the fact that apparently I didn’t know my own child as well as *they* thought they knew my child. That is the only disagreement I can ever recall having with my in-laws, in fifteen years of marriage.
I understand the need and good intentions that many here might have in covertly suggesting that it’s me who is the sole issue in this equation. However, you would be incorrect. It’s very easy to judge and conclude things when you haven’t lived my life and you do not know my son.
I am not a perfect parent, nor do I claim to be. But the fact remains that in the difficulties I encountered with rearing at least one of my children, it kept me from wanting to have a houseful. Those who are great at parenting and want a houseful are wonderful people. I’ve known other families who have many children, and I am continually amazed at the patience of most of the parents.
It took me 7 years, as I said, to even consider having another child, and the viewpoints expressed by many on this site were used by God to help my change of heart.
So, Bobby, there you have it. My reasons for not having a houseful. Take it or leave it, or criticize my parenting skills, but I’m the one who has to live with it. ;)
Thanks, Carla.
Posted by: Kel at May 28, 2009 7:22 PM
Kel, I hope you didn’t think I was criticizing you! I know that I’m not in your shoes and that we all do the best we can. Keep on keeping on. :)
He sounds exactly like my Joseph (now 13) at that age. Extremely difficult to deal with. Joseph has Asperger’s and the least little thing that changed his routine was enough for major meltdowns…
Hugs… I’ve been there, done that… it is NOT easy, but I’ll tell you that at 13 Joseph is just about the most delightful child to spend time with. He still doesn’t like major routine shifts, though! (But he can deal with them…)
Posted by: Elisabeth at May 28, 2009 9:05 PM
My son is 12 and he’s a basket case with change. When we were trading in our old car for a new one he actually stole the keys from the dealer! They went back and watched surveillance tapes b/c they didn’t know what happened and thought some stranger took them. (He was 8 at the time.)
We moved almost 4 years ago and anytime we talk about our old house he’s practically in tears.
It’s so strange because he has a lot of friends and doesn’t seem to have the verbal issues of Asperger’s. The docs have just said “Asperger tendencies.” Doc speak for “I don’t know what the heck is going on.” :)