Chastity Bono becoming Chaz
Those of us who grew up watching Sonny and Cher would never in a million years have envisioned this sad, confused future for little Chastity Bono. From TMZ.com, today:
Chastity Bono, civil rights advocate, journalist, author and musician, is in the early stages of changing his gender – transitioning from female to male….
Bono, the child of legendary entertainers Sonny and Cher, began the process earlier this year, shortly after his 40th birthday….
“Yes, it’s true – Chaz, after many years of consideration, has made the courageous decision to honor his true identity,” confirmed Bono’s publicist, Howard Bragman.
“He is proud of his decision and grateful for the support and respect that has already been shown by his loved ones.
“It is Chaz’s hope that his choice to transition will open the hearts and minds of the public regarding this issue, just as his ‘coming out’ did nearly 20 years ago.
“We ask that the media respect Chaz’s privacy during this long process as he will not be doing any interviews at this time.”
Read TMZ’s description of the sex change process below.
[Attribution for both photos: Getty]
Becoming a Man – The Process
A lot is involved in the sex reassignment process. Here’s the lowdown, according to Dr. Gary Alter from Dr. 90210 – he’s an expert. Here’s what Chastity Bono is going through right now.
First step … A psychiatrist evaluates the patient. If appropriate, the doctor prescribes male hormones. The hormones change the body makeup, which includes hair growth. The clitoris also grows larger. Removal of breasts. Dr. Alter said most states will recognize the person as a male once this occurs. A hysterectomy can also be performed during this process. Dr. Alter said the decision about changing the genitalia can take several years, while the patient is taking hormones. Dr. Alter says most people stop at this point. Dr. Alter says if the patient goes forward, the surgeon often makes a small penis out of the clitoris and a scrotum by joining both labia majors. Testicle implants can then be inserted. The most sophisticated option is microsurgery in which skin, arteries and nerves are taken from the forearm and made into a phallus.
As for cost, Dr. Alter said it’s all over the place, depending on how far the person wants to go. We’ve spoken to people who have had it done, and they say the full deal costs more than $100k.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Wow. Just think about it from a practical standpoint. Hormonal imbalance is wacky enough, and causes so many problems. Why invite physical insanity by giving your body lots of the *opposite* hormones it needs as a male or female? Is it the hope of easing mental anguish that would lead someone to do this?
With all respect to Chastity, I think this elective process seems like really bad medicine.
How many people are really happy when its all over? And what are the numbers for people who try to go back?
Sorry, Chastity, but you’re a female and hormones and drastic surgery won’t change that.
Just noticed the expanded part about the process. ‘Dr. Alter’? Dickens couldn’t have done better.
The elective process costs more than $100K… Think how that money could be used to help the poor, work toward green solutions or finding a cure for cancer, etc. But apparently self-realization trumps all.
Wanting to be a man is not something I can relate to, but who are any of us to judge? We all spend money on things that can be seen as frivolous. She’s not violating anyone else’s rights.
I read that Cher freaked when Chaz came out of the closet. “I’ll never have grandchildren”, she cried I wonder how she is feeling now.
I read Cher’s book. She remains very pro-choice due to her own abortion.
It’s amazing what people will do to try to find peace, with themselves and with others, when they don’t know Christ.
…Look on the bright side, at least now, you can feel “right” with God about her wanting to get married….
lol..
..and why is this article here? interesting..
Who is Von Bruner?
Jill, I think you’re a very nice lady and I appreciate all the work you do for the pro-life movement. And I know this is your blog and you can post what you want. But when a blog is so strongly identified as a pro-life blog and it keeps posting on other issues, it can give the impression to people who are newer with the pro-life movement that being pro-life is only for someone who thinks XYZ about issues that aren’t related to being pro-life.
I worked to start a pro-life group in college (fell through from lack of school support) and the people who came to the initial meeting were just thrilled to find a pro-life group that wasn’t just for religious people, or people who don’t approve of homosexuality, or people who have various other views – a pro-life group that was for everybody. Some of them were just amazed that such a thing was possible. Anybody who quits being pro-life because they disagree with other pro-lifers on other topics clearly wasn’t too committed to begin with, but there are people who, while pro-life, are hesitant to get involved in the movement because they keep seeing the message that other pro-lifers all think the same way about an issue they feel differently about. And who wants to try to work with people who you think aren’t going to like you, or are going to think there’s something fundamentally wrong with you?
As I said, I think you’re a very nice lady. You have the right to express your thoughts and I’ve never seen you be mean to anyone. But when topics unrelated to abortion keep getting associated with the pro-life movement, it starts to look like a movement that’s only for certain types of people, and that’s really unfortunate for everyone involved.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
I think it would be a good clarification for Jill to explain why she blogs on this subject, if she has time. I think she would have good insights on this.
For myself, the connection between ‘life is whatever I say, and I can redefine it’ and ‘one’s sex is whatever I say, and I can redefine it’ is clear. Both attitudes affect the individual AND others, though one has a more immediate tragic ending.
The IVF connection between homosexualist and pro-abort agendas is also apparent. People of the same sex seeking to ‘create’ children must destroy human beings in the embryonic stage in the process.
As an abortion violates the intent of God’s will by terminating an unborn child in the womb, so too does a “genital swap” (not a sex change as this cannot be done by humans), violates the intent of God’s will for a born person.
All of these acts of rebellion have one source, the father of lies, Satan himself, who attempts to take everything God does and pervert it.
The only thing these actions do is join us to Satan and his will thereby joining us also to his eternal destiny,
It does not have to be this way.
Hisman, explain hermaphrodites to me please.
Are they science fiction?
Amazed that you cannot simply love someone for who they are. Have you walked in this ladies shoes?
Typical..judgement and condemnation.
Marauder, it’s called the “enemy of my enemy is my friend. It’s the same principled lacking concept that led us, as a country, to at one point befriend and arm psycho despots like Sadam Hussein or religious fanatics like OBL.
Gay people who aren’t infertile can use IUI to get pregnant. IVF is a fertility treatment, and it doesn’t always involve the destruction of embryos. Not all embryos implant, but that is the case with all methods of conception.
What’s next?
I want to know if the penis “works”! I mean, how on earth?? Just like a fake vagina. You can’t tell me the sensations would even be close to the same! Why do it and screw up your plumbing? Furthermore, I’ve read about transexuals who cannot perform.
It’s obvious Chastity is a lesbian. Will tranforming yourself into a man make it right? I don’t think so! And if you have no feeling, your sex life is pretty much over. It’s almost like self mutilation.
By the looks of her, she won’t? need too much surgery to make the transition.
“The IVF connection between homosexualist and pro-abort agendas is also apparent. People of the same sex seeking to ‘create’ children must destroy human beings in the embryonic stage in the process.”
Not necessarily. You just don’t make very many embryos and implant all the ones you make.
“It’s obvious Chastity is a lesbian. Will tranforming yourself into a man make it right? I don’t think so! And if you have no feeling, your sex life is pretty much over. It’s almost like self mutilation.”
How does having a sex change operation and becoming a man mean you have no sexual feeling anymore?
Maurderer, do you actually support this????
Marauder, it’s not normal to change your sex!! That is an abomination!
Apple, I am not hateful. I am truthful.
Okay. We will have to agree to disagree then.
all the process you can have they will always have the Fallopian tube, “you can’t change what you are, you are just dening your self”
http://www.z-trend.com/
Marauder, Mary Ann: I don’t post on the homosexual movement very often because you’re right, Marauder, it’s another issue. I have enough trouble keeping up with the pro-life issue anyway.
But the goals of the pro-abortion and pro-homosexual pressure groups are the same. They both want illicit sex without consequences. At their core they both are issues of aberrant sexual behavior.
And they’re also related on the procreation issue. The first attempts to avoid procreation unnaturally, and the second attempts to procreate unnaturally.
So every now and then I do post on the homosexual issue, such as yesterday’s post on Thomas Beatie. Learning today of Chastity Bono’s intentions kind of sandwiched with that.
All we know is physically she has female reproductive organs (which may not be functional — i don’t know) — she could very well have X and Y chromosomes — genetically a male — yet somewhere in the mix the genes involved in making her physcially a male were messed up — there are so many chances for things to not come out as it should be. … Read MoreShe may have suffered gender identity due to this and has fought and struggled with this all her life. the fact that she is a lesbian can point to that possibility. Yes, God created her and God created every other person that may look “normal” or “perfect” — but, guarantee this — are not perfect genetically — the fall took care of that. We don’t just sit back and not correct, by medicine or surgery, other birth defects that are the result of genetic aberration, if they can be corrected — the same goes for sex chromosome aberrations.
I want to know if the penis “works”! I mean, how on earth?? Just like a fake vagina. You can’t tell me the sensations would even be close to the same! Why do it and screw up your plumbing? Furthermore, I’ve read about transexuals who cannot perform.
Posted by: heather at June 11, 2009 8:19 PM
________________________________________________
heather, For a sex change from a woman to man the woman takes male hormones which causes her clitoris to grow like a males penis. In utero when we are forming there is a point that the female and male genitals look the same. This is how some babies are mis-took for another gender during the ultrasound exam, btw this happened with my last pregnancy. Anyways, the womans clitoris would be her penis is she were to be born a male. So once her clitoris grows it will start taking the shape and form of a male penis, although it is usually much smaller than the normal male.
She who is now a he once she gets her uterus and overaies out will usually be able to get an erection but rarely will it penetrate.
I’m not sure of the rest of the process of obtaining fake testes but I’m sure its much more complicated than obtaining the penis.
Will tranforming yourself into a man make it right? I don’t think so! And if you have no feeling, your sex life is pretty much over.
While I make no comment as to whether or not transforming into a man (whatever that is defined as for these purposes) will make anything right, perhaps if the process leaves a person with “no feeling” — which I’m not sure is correct — then there is more at play than mere sexual gratification.
It’s time to introduce the world to John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body”.
Jill: So, then, what do you make of pro-life gay people? Also, I’m not quite sure what you mean by “illicit sex without consequences.”
heather: I think if someone has spent their entire life feeling as though they are trapped in a body of the wrong gender, there’s some inherent reason why they feel that way and it isn’t going to change. It isn’t something to be undertaken lightly by any stretch, and I can see where some people would want to be a different gender because of some experience or situation. (For example, if you were raised in a household where you were constantly told that girls were worthless, you might want to become a boy.) But some people have a male mind in a female body or vice versa. They feel the way we would feel if we woke up tomorrow in an opposite-sex body and weren’t able to leave it.
Some people spend years or even decades trying to overcome this, and they can’t do it because it’s hardwired into their mind. No one knows why people are transgender, but it might have to do with being exposed to different hormones while in the womb. A lot of them commit suicide because they’re so desperate to leave bodies that don’t feel like they belong to them.
Despite desperately wanting to be like everyone else and working hard to, they can’t. They didn’t ask to have the feelings that they have, and there is nothing they can do to make the feelings go away. As I said, some people might want to be the other gender for some other reason. But some people have felt from the time they were very small children that they were meant to have a body of the opposite gender. Some of them come from loving and stable homes and have no history of abuse. (Some of them may have been abused, but felt as though they should be the opposite gender before the abuse occured.) It’s just something within them.
What makes this hard to see God glorified in this is Chaz’s entrenchment in the Gay & Lesbian community. There is no “Gay” gene, thus why I tend to separate transgenders from homosexuals — I feel it does a disservice to those who have truly suffered due to sex chromosome anomalies to group them with homosexuals. I am sure there are transgenders who don’t have a genetic basis for their choice — but the process that one has to go thru to change from a “woman” into a “man” is very long and arduous and most of those would not make it to the surgery stage. It is a sad situation all the way around — and it probably hurts the cause of transgenders who had legitimate genetic reasons for their choice — this definitely mucks up any understanding due them.
Marauder, do you think it’s Christian to be so non-judgmental?
Snerd
Jill,
Isn’t thoughtful and considerate of your enemies to set the rules for your web site.
Their ‘concern’ for your reputation and credibility are ‘touching’.
Simply re-posting what is already in the ‘news’ with a minimum of commentary has become a ‘no no’.
These ‘helpful citizens’ are the same folks who have no qualms about killing viable pre-natal children in utero or allowing them to die of exposure should they survive the abortionist firs attempt on their young lives.
But they get their panties all in a wad if you focus attention on the gender bent free spirits.
yor bro ken
Posted by: Soonerman at June 11, 2009 7:08 PM
Amazed that you cannot simply love someone for who they are. Have you walked in this ladies shoes?
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Soonerman,
Don’t you mean combat boots?
You are sounding kind of judgemental and condemnatory yourself.
yor bro ken
Marauder, I disagree with you.
Soonerman:
A hermaphrodite is someone who has diminished male and female sexual organs and incapable of reproduction. This is a definite and observable genetic defect and is rare, very rare. To base an entire societal norm on rare genetic abnormalities is ludicrous.
Chastity Bono is a woman. She has no excuse whatsoever to want to change into a man other than her own selfishness and rebellion. It’s all about her and what she wants. She could care less that her actions will lead many to their own destruction.
And who says I hate anyone? I have never said that. The problem is that when people who don’t know the truth and are told the truth they see it immediately as hate. It’s why Jesus was crucified.
No, in fact, my admonitions are the repeated words of a loving God who does not leave us where we are but challenges us to become better than we could ever imagine by becoming like His Son. This does not include any of the perverted behaviors that the world is being deceived to see as “good”.
Abortion, homosexuality and gender identity issues are all the result of our fallen nature that can only be redeemed by Jesus Christ. If you hate those words it is not me you hate it is Christ Himself you hate.
I wonder if this is HER way of filling that place in her heart that is now void of her father’s place in her life since his tragic death? You have to wonder……
I remember when Cassius Clay converted to Islam and changed his name to Muhamad Ali.
Some people, Howard Cossell, among them refused to refer to the former Clay by his new chosen name Muhamad Ali.
But in time I think nearly everybody honored Ali’s decision to change his name.
Choosing to undergo gender re-assignment surgery does not change your chromosomes.
Indulging your delusion does not change reality.
You are the same person you were before the surgery, no matter what new name you choose or the clothes you wear.
Chastity announces publicly that she is going to have her genitalia surgically altered and at the same time requests that her privacy be honored.
At the risk of sounding sexist, that sounds like something a woman would do.
It is the kind of ‘logic’ that men will never be able to understand.
You know the criticism that feministas love to level at men, “They just don’t get it.”
yor bro ken
You lost me at the end there Ken. I agree with everything you said except for the part that it sounded like something a woman would do.
I guess I could just as easily envision a guy getting the sex change surgery and wanting to establish boundaries of privacy.
Both men and women have done this. Who am I to argue? I guess you really can’t stop them. Go for it if that’s what you believe will make you happy. Tired of the topic already to be honest.
Ed,
It was a not so subtle attempt at sexist humor.
But there was some truth in the observation.
Most men would not choose to go public with a controversial disclosure and then ask for their privacy to be honored in the same breath. These are almost mutually exclusive acts.
Chasitity could have done her thing and not said anything to anyone. She is almost a social non-entity. Her only claim to fame are her parents. One who is deceased and the other who’s career is out to pasture.
yor bro ken
Yeah I forgot that she released a statement through her publicist before she asked for her privacy.
That is pretty funny. But you’re right, not surprising. And she probably has a good reason for doing it that way that makes perfect sense to most women and no sense to most men until they explain it to us about three times then we start to get it sort of.
I think God made it that way so that we’d really have to work on communicating and He could sit back and laugh at the whole process.
I respectfully disagree with the majority of my pro-life kin here, and support Chaz’s decision. The choice to change gender identification is a difficult one, and I echo Marauder’s earlier sentiments. Its not an issue of sex; its an issue of personal well-being and identity.
There is a touching documentary called “Southern Comfort” that was put out several years ago, showcasing the struggles of being transgender. It follows Robert Eads, a transgendered man (female to male) who is dying of ovarian cancer because no one will treat him. Interestingly enough, Robert maintains a religious faith in Christianity, even as he faces impending death.
You can view the entire documentary online and for free at http://www.logoonline.com/video/misc/127961/southern-comfort-part-1.jhtml?id=1600437
If you don’t have the time, you can watch a quick preview here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6JIWD2DNyY
Always great to see posts from you Pro-life Atheist. I’m glad you’re able to endure our oftentimes strong Christian opinions.
I would be proud to walk shoulder to shoulder with you at any pro-life march.
(But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t still try to convert you if I had the chance!) :)
I’m the father of a female to male transgender person. This is an intensely personal decision and really no one else’s business. I can’t believe all the hurtful things that are being said here. There are a lot of vicious comments from uneducated people here. The more education a person gets the more tolerant they are usually. Live and let live and MYOB. More power to you Chaz, may you have a long wonderful life.
A loving, caring, nurturing Dad
Mike, could you educate us more on the issue? How is your child doing as a new sex?
I’m the father of a female to male transgender person. This is an intensely personal decision and really no one else’s business. I can’t believe all the hurtful things that are being said here.
Some of the things posted here really have been hideous; remarks about Chaz’s appearance for example are completely unwarranted.
OTOH, if someone makes a public statement about their sex change, then it’s a public matter to a certain extent. I didn’t even know Chaz *existed* until now. I’d be quite happy letting her lead her own life in peace.
The more education a person gets the more tolerant they are usually.
That is observably not the case, I’m afraid. They’re usually just tolerant about different things.
I don’t see what’s so hurtful. I don’t see anything mean said. It has been a known fact that she is a lesbian. It was something that Cher wasn’t even accepting of when she first told her.
Speaking of tolerance, why doesn’t anyone have any for Christians?
Isn’t thoughtful and considerate of your enemies to set the rules for your web site.
Their ‘concern’ for your reputation and credibility are ‘touching’.
Simply re-posting what is already in the ‘news’ with a minimum of commentary has become a ‘no no’.
These ‘helpful citizens’ are the same folks who have no qualms about killing viable pre-natal children in utero or allowing them to die of exposure should they survive the abortionist firs attempt on their young lives.
Well, Ken, considering most of the people who asked why this is a pro-life topic identified themselves as being pro-life, I’m not sure that last statement is true. Interesting that you consider them Jill’s enemies, though.
I wonder, if we did not have visible evidence of physically intersexed people (hermaphrodites), would people deny the existence of that? Doesn’t the fact that hermaphroditism is possible make it seem presumptuous to insist, with no evidence, that being mentally intersexed is impossible?
Behind that tough, protective exterior still lies the sensitive, fearful little girl. So often these cases go back to real developmental problems with the female (mother) role model or underlying fear of men (again evidence in experiences in family of origin). And in her case, this was pretty wacky. That kind of insecurity can be easily manipulated by others – strangers one trusts, and now, instead of facing that psychological role confusion, she’s led to complicate matters in a greater self destructive method. Lots of internal insecurities and confusion in these types.
Maybe while trying to get my point across, it came out as abrasive. It’s difficult to convey emotions on the computer. I was only pointing out that it goes against God. The second point was this. Once you do something surgical to your private parts, you can’t really go back. What if your sensation for sex is gone? That was really all I meant to say. I actually like Chaz[stity] Bono. She was sweet and comical on the ‘Celebrity Fitness Club.’ I like Cher too.
kc,
It’s very sad. It all goes back to the importance of family, a loving mother and loving father, and siblings. Siblings often aren’t given their due (respect) as an integral part of the family.
Midnight Mike,
“There are a lot of vicious comments from uneducated people here. The more education a person gets the more tolerant they are usually.”
Sorry, I just noticed your comment. Would you please educate us so we can understand?
Speaking of tolerance, why doesn’t anyone have any for Christians?
Posted by: heather at June 12, 2009 8:02 AM
Christianity is a choice. Choices have consequences. You want to call yourself a Christian? Fine. Just don’t expect the rest of us to accept your lifestyle choices.
You want to call yourself a Christian? Fine. Just don’t expect the rest of us to accept your lifestyle choices.
Christianity is a “choice” based on reason because its morality is based on the natural law. It’s those who give no basis to the natural law who are harming themselves as well as those they influence in the world – ergo, more disease, abused innocents, sexual perversion, selfishness in general, immature and irresponsible relationships, etc. to the point now of rationalizing training of children to blow themselves up as part of some fictitious belief system and totalitarian control of whole nations. IOW, calling good evil and evil good.
kbhvac: If you’re implying that I’m secretly some kind of pro-choice troll, that’s completely absurd. Just because we disagree about something doesn’t mean you’re entitled to make false accusations. I’ve been careful to respectfully state my differing opinion and not insult anyone, and I’m sorry to see that you can’t do the same.
Snerd: I think it’s Christian to be kind to people, and if being transgender is a sin, it’s for God to punish and not human beings. Having a sex-change operation does not inflict pain, death, or injustice on anyone. Unlike abortion, it doesn’t end a human life.
This is what I don’t understand about some of the views that have been expressed here; to the people who have made mean-spirited comments about Chastity/Chaz, if you think s/he’s committing a sin, why can’t you feel sorry for her/him? Why don’t you pray for her/him instead of being so nasty? It’s one thing to say, “I don’t think God meant for people to have sex-change operations and I think having one is a sin.” It’s another to behave as though you hate the sinner AND the sin. That’s why I give credit to Jill and Ed for stating their opinions without being rude. (Ed, your comment to Pro-Life Atheist made me smile a little.)
Pro-Life Atheist: Thanks. Are you the same one from IMDb?
Midnite Mike: I hope your child is doing well.
HAL!!!
How are you??
it’s not that transgender is a sin. It’s a disordered state and pretending that it is not is harmful to the person and to society.
Chastity Bono needs psychiatric help not surgery.
Hi Hal,
“Just don’t expect the rest of us to accept your lifestyle choices.”
Did you mean “adopt”?
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”
So, where does that leave hermaphrodites–people who are sexually ambiguous? Are they supposed to consider themselves outside the realm of God’s creation? They are neither male nor female. Some have ambiguous genitalia. Some are chromosomally one gender but externally another. They sometimes need hormones to take on the mature physical appearance of either gender. And, for those actually interested in the science, there is considerable evidence suggesting that one can have the brain of one gender and the body of the other because of in utero hormonal exposure at critical windows of fetal development (there can be telltale external clues in the body (e.g. digit ratio).
We need to be more compassionate and less presumptuous about what God has made and what it means to be made in his image. This is especially disconcerting coming from a pediatric nurse. You ought to know better Jill.
Jeff: you have misunderstood this line of scripture. God has neither femaleness nor maleness. He is genderless. You are reading this line literally as though God has a physical body which He does not. He therefore cannot have the characteristics of a human body.
This line refers more to our spiritual characteristics. Our souls are created in the image of God, made for unity with another (God), in the same way that God is three separate persons in complete and perfect union.
And no those who are born with reproductive defects or have psycho-sexual problems are not somehow “less” in the image of God than those who do not. Just as those missing arms or half their brain, or have extra chromosomes are any less in the image of God.
As Jill stated what Christians (and others) object to regarding homosexuality etc is the following:
“But the goals of the pro-abortion and pro-homosexual pressure groups are the same. They both want illicit sex without consequences. At their core they both are issues of aberrant sexual behavior.”
It is the attempt to normalize aberrant forms of sexual behavior.
ps: Alexandra, I tried to do an analysis of the comments to see if you were correct in your assertion that most of the commenters who questioned Jill’s judgement in choosing this topic for discussion were pro-life.
I would have to know all the posters position and then I would have to analyze their commnents and make a subjective judgement and put then put them in the PL, PC or ? category.
Not really. One person’s name was “pro-life atheist,” and Marauder explicitly stated in his/her first comment on the subject: “I worked to start a pro-life group in college.” I rarely come here anymore and it was pretty obvious to me.
I have no doubt that ‘hermaphrodatitism’ is a present reality, but I am equally sure that an objective test can be done to determine whether the person is male or female biologically.
I doubt there is or can be a conclusive test to correctly diagnose ‘mentally intersexed’. (Is that like having a ‘purple idea’?)
That’s my point. What is the difference, spiritually, between being physically and mentally intersexed, except that we can conclusively verify the presence of one condition? If it’s possible for people’s bodies to be intersexed, isn’t it a bit presumptuous to say that for someone’s mind to have a similar condition is an impossibility, a spiritual illness, etc?
Jill, thanks for chiming in on why you chose this topic. As would be expected, the reasoning behind your choice are valuable. Your assertion that the goals behind the pro-homosexual and PC movement are the same is compelling. Interesting how these movements are most aggressive in (typically affluent) societies where self-actualization is given priority over the common good. Its like many of us have nothing better to do than invent our own neuroses…
I’ll repost your full response here, in case people missed it-
‘Marauder, Mary Ann: I don’t post on the homosexual movement very often because you’re right, Marauder, it’s another issue. I have enough trouble keeping up with the pro-life issue anyway.
But the goals of the pro-abortion and pro-homosexual pressure groups are the same. They both want illicit sex without consequences. At their core they both are issues of aberrant sexual behavior.
And they’re also related on the procreation issue. The first attempts to avoid procreation unnaturally, and the second attempts to procreate unnaturally.
So every now and then I do post on the homosexual issue, such as yesterday’s post on Thomas Beatie. Learning today of Chastity Bono’s intentions kind of sandwiched with that.’
there is no such thing as being spiritually intersexed. Good grief, the ideas (and lack of theology) of some of you people is preposterous.
I have no idea why we are even debating intersex.
The fact is that Chastity Bono is a female. She has certainly had a very difficult life, being the daughter of two rock stars and suffering through the divorce of her parents.
Her sexual confusion is not surprising. What is so tragic about this is that she will never receive the help she so clearly needs.
there is no such thing as being spiritually intersexed. Good grief, the ideas (and lack of theology) of some of you people is preposterous.
No, angel, I did not say that people are spiritually intersexed. I asked, from a spiritual perspective (aka spiritually) what is the difference between being physically intersexed (hermaphroditic) and mentally intersexed, except that one undeniably occurs and the other’s occurence is currently debatable?
Alexandra: Thanks. :)
Posted by: AK Krystal at June 11, 2009 9:31 PM
“I’m not sure of the rest of the process of obtaining fake testes but I’m sure its much more complicated than obtaining the penis.”
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There seem to be a lot of liberal males who have lost theirs, surely there are some available for transplant.
yor bro ken
Alexandra, the bottom line is Chastity Bono is a deeply troubled woman. The path she has taken will NEVER EVER give her the peace and happiness she so desperately desires.
I believe this is what Jill’s post (to get back to the topic) is really about.
I’ve been doing a little research on Chastity Bono. It appears that her dad wanted a boy and would often dress her up in boys clothes. This was very confusing for her. He often mentioned that he wanted her to be the first female NFL quarterback. She also spent a great deal of time around her mother’s lesbian friends who had a significant influence on her in her vulnerable teen years.
Recent research which has been concealed shows that children raised by gay couples are 7 X more likely to develop non-heterosexual preferences.
We need to pray for Chastity. She was not born this way. She is not a man trapped in a woman’s body. She is a deeply disturbed woman.
“Christianity is a choice. Choices have consequences. You want to call yourself a Christian? Fine. Just don’t expect the rest of us to accept your lifestyle choices.
Posted by: Hal at June 12, 2009 3:36 PM”
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Hal:
Then don’t expect God, the ultimate authority, not to hold those accountable who reject His Son.
The Word of God says Christ is the only way to eternal life. It says that those who reject His Son do not have eternal life.
I assume you interpret these words as hate filled. Well, what if they’re true Hal? What if those that reject His Son do not have life eternal? Then these words are the most loving words a person can speak to another person because we keep speaking them despite all of the hate and insults we get for doing this.
We’re going to keep loving you Hal, whether you like it or not.
yeah, right Apple.
I would be laughing if only it wasn’t so sad what is happening here. In the name of tolerance and acceptance.
What IS happening here angel? Old prejudices are disappearing That’s not sad. That’s a good thing.
no old prejudices are not disappearing.
What is happening is that homosexuality is being sold to the public as a legitimate lifestyle and as a normal state of being.
It is not normal. It is aberrant and deviant. A lie repeated often enough becomes a truth in our society today.
This is not healthy for society nor for the people who are homosexual.
Anyone who disagrees with the homosexual lifestyle is now libelled as hate.
Truth is hate to those who hate truth.
no Apple. I do not hate homosexuals. And my position on homosexuality does not necessarily come from any faith. It comes from scientific evidence which has been ignored the past 35 years due to the extreme politicization of homosexuality. Based on scientific and social science data ALONE, I would not support the homosexual lifestyle and would advocate treatment. I also know several individuals who have been successfully treated and are living healthy lives a heterosexual men.
The homosexual movement has been quite brilliant in its strategy to gain widespread mainstream acceptance.
However, whenever I confront people who support homosexual rights, on exactly what takes place during homosexual sex for example, most cannot hide their intense disgust. Even less militant homosexuals admit that this is a serious problem. It is this aspect alone that is glossed over. Of course the coarsening of marital intimacy over the past 40 years has also contributed to the acceptance of homosexuality.
I would say to you that it is the militant homosexuals who exhibit extreme hatred towards Christians. They would slay every Christian if they could.
oh and by the way, I draw a line in the sand when you militant homosexuals tell me that my schools must teach the homosexual lifestyle to my children, when you say that religions cannot preach against the homosexual lifestyle and that government must support you when you involve yourself in a lifestyle that costs millions of dollars to social and health systems through risky behavior.
yes Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.
actually we do have family members who are gay and I also have three co-workers who are lesbians.
I love them dearly and get along just fine with them. They are some of the most wonderful people I know.
If I can”t express my Christian views in public then neither should homosexuals be allowed to. What’s good for the goose is….
While it’s true of the past that many Christians treated homosexuals badly, this is generally NOT the situation today. In fact, it is now reversed.
I have no intention of being sequestered in my home and neither do most other Christians. We are fighting tooth and nail to protect OUR rights too.
We don’t want your view of the world shoved down our throats. Christians have been and still are much more tolerant than the media and militant homosexuals would like to admit. It is this tolerance which is in fact, exploited against us.
My basis against homosexual practice is scientific and social science data.
I keep talking about how my Christian views are being threatened because it is the “gay” lobby that is the main threat to Christianity today. One only needs to see what has happened in Britain to see that this is so. Practicing Christians have few rights left to them thanks to the efforts of rabid gays.
I am against the tactics used by gays who have libeled Christians as hateful because they do not support their lifestyle nor their agenda. The word is libel is most appropriate because that is exactly what is being done here.
Being proabort is not considered “hateful”. Being a supporter of global warming is not considered “hateful”. Being Islamic is not considered “hateful”.
But being Christian and supporting the view that marriage is between one man and one woman for life is “hateful”. No it is not. It is a christian view based on tradition and biblical teaching supported by a large volume of science and social science research.
Since the religious aspect of the debate was jettisoned years ago with relativistic morality, it is now convenient and advantageous to ignore any research data which does not conform to the gay worldview. It is also advantageous to apply such super-rigorous standards to research that anything which does not support the gay agenda can be labelled as invalid.
We’ve seen this done with abortion research too.
As I’ve stated before, like the proaborts, the homosexual movement is not interested in learning the truth. Truth is hate to them. They are interested in aberrant sexual behavior with no responsibility.
Angel, being christian is not, in itself, hateful. But denying equal rights to same sex couples is hateful.
On the first point, yes it is according to most homosexual groups. In fact, homosexual teachers are on record as stating that Christian private schools are “implicitly homophobic”.
On the second no it is not if you believe that a marriage is a special union between one man and one woman and you believe this uniqueness should be protected in society by law. I will say that I think society in general has done a very poor job of protecting marriage over the last 100 years hence the inroads made by the gay community. Easy divorce had undermined marriage as has cohabitation neither of which should have been legitimized.
Gays are very welcome in the Catholic church. It is not sinful to be homosexual. It is sinful to practice homosexuality though. The faithfully Catholic group, Courage ministers to persons with same sex attraction.
Also there are many rights being lost by Christians today. The right to teach, preach, write about and discuss Catholic/Christian teaching regarding homosexuality.
The right for example, to have Catholic children adopted/fostered into a Catholic family and raised Catholic – see the case of a young boy placed with a homosexual male couple in blatant disregard for the rights of the mother in the UK.
The right of a father to protect his family from being exposed to public nudity and sex acts being performed by homosexuals in a park opposite his home. He got charged – they did not even though there are laws against this sort of public behavior.
The forcing of Christian churches to hire homosexual youth directors in direct opposition of their beliefs that these individual’s same sex attraction makes them unsuitable for their work with youth.
The use of Human Rights Tribunals in Canada to silence magazines that write articles dissenting from the current pro-homosexuality position. These tribunals are strong weapons that are used against Christians and anyone to silence opposition to their political and social agenda. Apparently we are to go down like lambs to the slaughter.
I could go on Apple, but really this discourse is getting tiring. The fact is, anything, ANY VIEW whatsoever that is against homosexuality and it’s intended social and political agenda, no matter how charitably expressed, is now defined as hate. The fact that you don’t recognize this demonstrates how successful the homosexual movement has been.