Pro-abort blog encourages pregnant mother to jump off abortion cliff
UPDATE, 8/19, 3:22a: Shakesville has closed off comments due to this post. Following are the last 4. As I said yesterday, blogger Melissa chose her words carefully when soliciting advice for Kirsten, which she verified at the end of the thread (click to enlarge):
[HT: commenter Rachael C.]
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Yesterday “abortion-positive” blogger Melissa at Shakesville posted a request from reader Kirsten, soon to be undergoing an RU-486 abortion, for affirmation with her decision because “she’s a little anxious about the actual procedure.” Careful wording, I thought. Not guilt that she will be killing her baby, just fear of the “actual procedure.”
Anti-choice Melissa didn’t allow any, “Don’t do it; everything will turn out ok” or “I regret my abortion” posts, so I’m hoping commenters here will fill that gap.
Meanwhile, 3 of the comments struck me.
From Red Queen
Since I’m one of “those women who use abortion as birth control” I can totally give you the run down on my experience.
The pill was great. I took one at the clinic, the other at home a few hours later. Sometime after that I had some (relatively) mild cramping and tada. The only thing that was hard about it was that I bled for nearly 3 weeks afterwards….
Surgical abortion (early – like 8 weeks) I have a heart shaped uterus which made the procedure take longer than it should have. It was bad, but it was only bad for a little while. It took so long that the anesthesia ran out and they couldn’t give me more. But as soon as it was over i felt fine. No bleeding, no cramping.
Surgical abortion (late, very late term) this one was rough, but only because I was so far along. I was a 2 day procedure using sea weed lamaria to dilate my cervix. That night was difficult, crampy, exhausted, ect. Having to spend 2 days in a clinic with a (then) toddler was rough. I didn’t have childcare, but the clinic staff were awesome. When it was over I slept for 14 hours straight and then was perfectly fine.
Emotionally, the hardest one was the late one, but only because i felt like a tool for not figuring out I was pregnant earlier. These pregnancies were nothing like when I got pregnant with my son. I knew before the stick even turned that I wanted to be his mom. With the other pregnancies (both before and after giving birth) I didn’t have that overwhelming sense of want that I did for the Kid. So I didn’t have a problem with the abortions. I would have felt much worse bringing a kid into the world that I didn’t want with my whole being.
I read Red Queen’s backstory at the link she provided. Rough life.
From Jadelyn
I had a medical abortion 3 years ago. On Mother’s Day weekend. With my mom taking care of me. We still giggle about my “Un-Mother’s Day” every now and again….
I was 21, in college, busy with my life, and I don’t even want kids at all ever anyway….
Saturday morning came around. My mom had shooed my younger brother out of the house for the weekend to give me some peace and quiet. She made me breakfast, then I went upstairs and took the second set of pills. She had bought and had waiting for me a couple boxes of pads – they tell you DO NOT use tampons for this – and had laid in some of my favorite DVDs and stuff. She had cleared her weekend to take care of me.
At the clinic they’d warned me that it would hurt, like menstrual cramps but worse. Honestly, I didn’t think it was that bad…. I just laid around on the couch all day, watching movies and bleeding and occasionally cramping. By Sunday night, the bleeding had subsided to more or less my normal period level, and I went back to school.
I am so grateful that I had the support I did. My mom took care of me….
Jadelyn is a self-described “pagan feminist, and the name of her blog is WitchWords. Jadelyn’s latest Twitter post:
Aborting on Mother’s Day weekend? Joking about “Un-Mothers Day”? Man.
From phredrika
I’ve had three abortions (2 surgical, and 1 sort of herb-induced miscarriage when I was very young and in college). I have never regretted it. Never. I’ve been trying to write about the experiences and it is difficult.…
Reading all of this just makes me cry, I guess that there is such support. The 1-month anniversary of my last abortion was last week, on my first day of law school – I was in a new place, with no friends and no support physically with me. And it was ok. I am in such a conservative place, and I think I’ve always kept these things secret because when I’ve shared, my friends have not been supportive. And I don’t want to keep this quiet, and I don’t want anyone to be ashamed about having an abortion.
I’m sorry, it sure sounds like phredrika regrets her abortions, despite the brave face. Writing about it difficult? Remembering the anniversaries of the abortions?
The comments were all so heartbreaking. It is not the fault of “conservatives” that pre-abortive mothers fret and post-abortive pro-abortive mothers bury negative emotions and encourage others to be like them, to prop themselves up. Maternal instincts to protect one’s own children and not kill them are built in.
I pray Kirsten changes her mind. Don’t do it, Kirsten.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
We often hear the mantra that abortion is a tragic choice, and never an easy one or one which is made lightly or flippantly by the woman. Some of the writing above, however, seems to contradict that mantra.
Robert Novak died!
Wow…. How does one proudly announce their usage of abortion as birth control?
Can you imagine all the terrible things that woman is – those women are – doing to their bodies? All the consequences they’re going to have to live with? Not to mention the guilt…
Women like this need prayers and love. They are so broken, so torn, that they must constantly diffuse with pride, but look at what they’re really saying, “Be like me. Be broken like me.” I imagine, somewhere deep down, they think it will make them feel better… After all, if abortion is the status quo, then *your* abortions aren’t as traumatizing, right?
Kristen, please, if you read this, don’t do it. It isn’t worth it. You CAN have this baby, and you CAN do it while being IN CONTROL of your life. You can make the choices- raise the baby? Adopt out?-If you have this abortion, conversely, you lose control.
How saddening. Abortion should never be treated flippantly, no matter what side of the discussion one is on.
Man, all I’d have to do is read Red Queen’s comments and I’d run the other way!
I REGRET MY ABORTIONS and I guarantee you WILL too. Perhaps not tomorrow or next year…BUT I PROMISE it will catch up to you. The shame and guilt lie lurking waiting for their moment to strike and they do with a vengeance. When you have your 1st child you will only remember the child you aborted the special moment will be riddled with guilt. I challenge you to take a look at photos of where your child is in development.
There are people who will help you during and after you pregnancy with financial aid and other needs. Please seek them out and talk to them. Please seek out your local Life Center they will help you.
You do not see women out in droves carrying signs or wearing T-shirs I”M GLAD I ABORTED MY CHILD and those that say they do are lying to themselves. Deep down inside they are hurting. What you do see are woman speaking up through “Silent No More” “Rachel’s Vineyard Retreats are full to capacity w/ women who have either had an abortion or assisted in abortion. Those who regret their abortion FAR outweigh those who don’t.
I implore you not to make the same MISTAKE I did~I did KILL my children and I can’t take that back.
It is not just a blob of tissue~~remember you were once at the same stage your child is in now. I promise there are people that want to help you. Consider adoption. It takes GREAT ACT OF LOVE to put your child up for adoption. Your child deserves every chance you have received Give your child the GREATEST GIFT OF ALL~ The GIFT of LIFE
June,
I was thinking that, too, and praying that perhaps these posters will inadvertently open Kirsten’s eyes to the horror of abortion.
I too regret my abortions. I can’t take them back and I should have followed my instinct. I didn’t want to do it and if I would have known to just LOOK, I would have found the help I needed. I wanted to adopt out because I was in college.
You will regret it for the rest of your life. It will haunt you. There’s no question about that one. There will be a disconnect between you and any other children you have because of the abortion. Therefore, those children will suffer as well on a different level.
Abortion not only hurts physically (those that are telling you it wasn’t so bad are lying), but it hurts emotionally, mentally and spiritually. There is nothing positive about it.
Please… talk to women that have had abortions and regret it. They are the ONLY ONES that will NOT lie to you.
I will pray for this young lady and pray she makes the right choice.
A letter to the daughter I aborted.
Dearest Aubrey,
You should be here. You should be 18 years old. Driving, working, studying, babysitting your siblings. Laughing with me. Loving me. I picture you with long, brown hair like your sisters and big, blue eyes. On September 5th, 1990 you died. I was distraught even as you grew. I was distraught before the vacuum suctioned your body from mine. I was distraught after. Regret hardly conveys the depth of my emotion. A grief and a sorrow that consumes me at times. I can hardly bear it because I did not fight your life. Fight to protect you. Fight for your right to live, and grow and be. I did not place your life before my desperate thoughts of self-preservation. I was deceived into thinking you were a clump of cells, a lump of tissue, you were nothing, you were not even a baby.
I know what I have done. I carry it. I own it. I live with it. I would give ANYTHING to go back there though, and tell them all to go to hell, walk out that abortion mill door and embrace your life.
The grief I feel is hardly as big as the love, Aubrey. The love I have for you knows no bounds. The joy I have in knowing that I will see you one day. The hope I feel in telling others about you. You are my daughter and I will honor your short life in every way that I can, as long as I live.
I love you, Aubrey.
Mommy
Please don’t do it. Your circumstances will change and you are strong enough to reach out to others that will help you. Abortion WILL hurt you in more ways than they will ever tell you about. You will regret it one day. The killing of your precious child can never be undone. Please don’t have the abortion.
Perhaps Melissa doesn’t realize that in God’s eyes it would be just as if she’d pull the trigger.
The number of young people that have been lost to this insanity is truly unbearable.
There is a God in heaven and He would never allow a baby to be conceived that He wasn’t ready to take care of. It is only through human neglect, greed and mismanagement that children suffer. And if a child suffers for other reasons it is only for a greater purpose of which we are unaware.
Do not sin against your Maker by having an abortion.
I feel SO SORRY for all those women who are hurting because they had an abortion and regretted it! They truly are ‘the walking wounded'(as one pro-life group puts it). I have lost three babies through miscarriage (not abortion). It was not my ‘choice’ not to have my babies.I would give ANYTHING to have my children, but I would GLADLY have taken any of those babies these women aborted. I’m just one of those people who was ‘born to be a mother’. That’s what people have been saying about me since I was five. I pray that I will have the opportunity to be a mother to another child, and to lavish as much love on THAT child as I do my precious daughter.
Pamela,
I have found grace and forgiveness at the foot of the cross! Jesus rescues and heals! He is the only reason I can share my story with others.
My regret is the consequence of the sin of abortion. God is using my story in so many ways and I am thankful for that.
God bless you, sweet momma!!
Okay, Carla, thanks for ripping at my heartstrings.
You are so very welcome, Carder. :)
Today is my son’s Adoption Day! Adoption has brought me two out of my three children, and can be a great blessing for child, adoptive parents, and birthparents. Though it is not always easy there are great rewards. Read my blog to learn more about the adventure that is Adoption. Follow the “Adoption” tag on the menu bar to learn all about the glorious craziness of my son’s adoption one year ago!
Please, Kirsten, if you ever get a chance to read this, learn more about the self-less love that is Adoption. My first child, my daughter, was almost aborted–saved literally because her birthmom didn’t have enough money for the procedure. It makes me sick to think that my daughter might not be here today just because five years ago her birthmother panicked and tried to undo her pregnancy rather than actually deal with it. Speaking as someone who has herself panicked and then dealt with an unplanned pregnancy, it will get better. Don’t give in to fear now. You have nine months to figure out how you will handle it, and there are lots of people out there who want to help you.
These women make my heart hurt.
Carla:
We are all victims of the lies of Satan who only comes to kill, steal and destroy. Thank God you were rescued and someday you will see your baby who is doing very well by the way, right now.
Does abortion kill?
Does abortion steal?
Does abortion destroy?
Who is the author of abortion?
It ain’t God.
No, God came that we could have life, yes LIFE. Shout at the mountains…..LIFE.
If only the world would trust Him for He is trustowrthy.
The Prince of Darkness is the author of abortion, the covenant with death.
They overcame him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony. Revelation 12:11
“We still giggle about my “Un-Mother’s Day” every now and again….”
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Dang…I was with my wife in the ER when she miscarried and there is no way I can think about it and ‘giggle’…these are some very heartless folks.
Good point, RSD. I’m sorry about your baby. Let’s ‘dissect’ her words: when she says ‘We still giggle about my “Un-Mother’s Day” now and again..’So, if she says she is an ‘un-mother’, then she is admitting she was a MOTHER i.e., she had a CHILD. When she says ‘We still giggle about my ‘Un-Mother’s Day’…’ what she is really saying is ‘We still giggle about the day I had my child murdered’. Wow. That’s BEYOND heartless. She needs prayer.
Pamela, RSD,
Not heartless. Heartbroken.
She just doesn’t know it. Well, her brain hasn’t accepted it. But her soul knows.
Pray for her conversion, that she might accept the Truth before it’s too late.
I checked RedQueen’s profile from the link, and I felt even worse that she is in the education industry. I won’t wonder at all what she’s teaching her students. But we pray for all of them.
These women make my heart hurt.
Posted by: xalisae at August 18, 2009 2:45 PM
the sad thing is that there are SO many of these women.
And the sadder thing is how many of them lead other women onto and into this…..
I agree MaryRose, they are heartbroken but just don’t know it yet.
They can be healed and forgiven thru Jesus. Please say a prayer for them…
Reading the stories… “I use abortion for birth control”… “giggling about un-mother’s day”… “I never regretted it”…
I feel so cold inside.
I’m sorry that they are fooling themselves with this kind of stuff. They’re only leading themselves down a very hard road, as some of you ladies know personally. Sad.
“Don’t they know what causes this?!?!?”
(Forgive I couldn’t resist that one.)
Sex must be as informal as shaking hands.
So why should we subsidize these repeat offenders elective surgery?
Or if these waifs should chose not to murder their child, why should we be forced to subsidize their irresponsibility.
How did we get involved in their decision to have sex?
There is no indication that these children were conceived as the result of rohibnol cocktail or date rape or just plain rape.
These adult females made knowing willful choices to play hide the weenie and it does not seem they made any attempt to avoid conception.
Do you think they are playing some kind of sexual russian roulette hoping they will bed some dude who has enough resources to justify establishing paternity and child support or, heaven forbid, even marriage and a membership at the local country club.
Could it be they are just unbridled hedonistic bohemians?
I think they are just doubling down on dumb and losing money on the instant replay……again.
yor bro ken
Ken,
Great comment. Especially this:
“How did we get involved in their decision to have sex?”
I don’t know the answer to that, but since it’s “none of my business” I shouldn’t have to pay for it.
Unfortuantly I don’t think the individual the post is intended for will come over here as the posters over at Shakesville have warned here not to listen to or trust us, calling us “lying liars” (as if that’s substantial :P ) and the comments over there are closed. Just keep praying for open mind and hearts and keep sharing your abortion stories.
*I ment to say “her” not “here”
I encourage people to check out abort73.com for some good information. I found the site extremely eye-opening.
If someone really is pro-life – they would also cherish the life of the woman who struggles with an unwanted pregnancy. In spite of the science, conception continues to be a mystery. What exactly causes one egg to implant firmly and others to wash away? When does life begin? At conception? Then we should hold funerals for miscarriages. We do not, we just flush. Do you want to terrorize the women who have had a miscarrage as well?
I find your attack on this woman to be savage. You have no idea what circumstances played into her decision. And worse yet, you don’t care. You’ve found a target for your hatred.
Jesus warned “Judge not least you be judged.” Like all the sinners throwing stones, you are guilty of a crime far worse than hers. God grant you the wisdom to see that self-righteous and righteous are not the same.
Only when women stop attacking each other – will we begin to care for the children who die of hunger every day. The children who are beaten to death by teenage parents. The children who are sold into sexual slavery. When so very many of them are in dire need of help – it is such a shame to waste your energy punishing women you could not bear to add to those numbers.
Rachael C., 11:22p: Good eye. Will post update.
Hi Sharon.
“If someone really is pro-life – they would also cherish the life of the woman who struggles with an unwanted pregnancy.”
Yes, we do, hence all the concern for the women who have had abortions and all the work done by people like Carla who are helping women who are struggling after their abortions. It is a tired old cliche to claim that pro-lifers care nothing about the women nor about the babies after they are born. This is absurdly false, as there are something like over twice as many Crisis Pregnancy Centers as abortion mills in the US. Some pro-lifers adopt many babies as well. But suppose we did nothing, absolutely nothing to show care or concern for women and born babies. What does this prove? Absolutely nothing. For do you fault a doctor trying to cure cancer for “ignoring” and not caring about finding a cure for AIDS? If I stand up against spousal abuse, must I then be morally obliged to marry the woman being abused? Or if I tell you that you can not steal food from me, am I morally obliged to find an alternative way for you to obtain food? It in no way follows that if we say something is wrong and evil that we must provide an alternative outlet.
“In spite of the science, conception continues to be a mystery. What exactly causes one egg to implant firmly and others to wash away? When does life begin? At conception?”
Yes, science is very clear that an embryo is a human being. It is equally clear that you and I began our existence as an embryo. This is clear from an embryology text, as the following few quotes convey.
“Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote). … The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual.” (Carlson, Bruce M., Patten’s Foundations of Embryology, 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p.3.)
“The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.” [Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]
“Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zygtos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being.” [Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]
“Although human life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed. … The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity.” (O’Rahilly, Ronan and Müller, Fabiola. Human Embryology and Teratology, 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29).
“the term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops. It is synonymous with the terms fecundation, impregnation and fertilization … The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life.” (J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Freidman. Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers, pages 17 and 23.)
“Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being.” [Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]
“Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus.” (Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146.
“every time a sperm cell and ovum unite, a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition.” (E.L. Potter, M.D., and J.M. Craig, M.D. Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant (3rd Edition). Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975, page vii.)
“Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism…. At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun…. The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life.” [Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]
So science is patently clear. The issue is being obfuscated by philosophical queries about the “meaning” of life and what is life. This is quite disingenuous, however, since it is clear that you and I constitute human life and are alive. Because you can not kill us now, it would have been wrong for us to be killed at any moment, including that time when we were an embryo. Finally, suppose we don’t know when life begins. Suppose we are living in the 17th century and are completely ignorant of science. Because we can’t say for sure that it ISN’T a human being, does that give us the right to kill? If I am not positive if a building is clear of humans, may I blow the building up? If I am hunting in the woods and see the bushes move, may I shoot?
“Then we should hold funerals for miscarriages. We do not, we just flush.”
Yes, we should. So at best what does this prove?: That pro-lifers are hypocritical. This, however, is an ad hominem attack, one that does absolutely nothing to refute or even address a single argument put forth by a pro-lifer for the humanity of the unborn. There are also practical considerations to take into account for not holding funerals for miscarried babies. But it simply does not follow that because we do not hold funerals for babies that are miscarried that they are therefore not worthy of life and can be killed without any justification.
“Do you want to terrorize the women who have had a miscarrage as well?”
No because they do not directly and willfully kill an innocent human being. There is all the difference in the world between a natural miscarriage and killing someone.
“I find your attack on this woman to be savage. You have no idea what circumstances played into her decision. And worse yet, you don’t care. You’ve found a target for your hatred. Jesus warned “Judge not least you be judged.” Like all the sinners throwing stones, you are guilty of a crime far worse than hers. God grant you the wisdom to see that self-righteous and righteous are not the same”
I’m not really sure what the words of Jesus of Nazareth has to do with abortion. If we’re simply going to quote Jesus at each other, he also said to treat others the way you wish to be treated. I’m sure none of us would like to be chemically burned, have poison injected into our hearts, ripped up, sliced up, suctioned up, or any of the other gruesome methods that abortion does to a fellow human being. But your argument is self refuting, for you are judging us for judging, and in fact, saying that our crime is worse than hers, which is a judgment of the heart. You have just judged our hearts and our motives, not that we are objectively saying that an action that this woman undertook was wrong. You are judging us for judging, and in the worst way.
“Only when women stop attacking each other – will we begin to care for the children who die of hunger every day. The children who are beaten to death by teenage parents. The children who are sold into sexual slavery. When so very many of them are in dire need of help – it is such a shame to waste your energy punishing women you could not bear to add to those numbers. ”
What’s wrong with beating a child to death? If it was sick, hungry, poor, or living under dire conditions, then it won’t have to suffer anymore. Same goes for those children born into sexual slavery. We should just simply kill them to avoid their life of misery. Unfortunately, you beg the question once again as to the humanity of the unborn, implying that we should have killed these children in utero to save them from this tragedy. Either that or you are saying that we should worry about them and not the unborn, but again, see what I said about focusing one’s efforts in one area and not others. What you need to argue is that the unborn is not worthy of life in the same way that you or I are. Not confuse the issue with bringing up other great tragedies in the world, but concentrate on the unborn. What is it and why can we kill it?
Thank you, Bobby. Always spot on.
Hi Sharon,
I had services for my miscarried baby boys and for the daughter I aborted.
I think that giggling on your unMother’s Day(the day you killed your child)is quite savage.
I echo everyone else in saying Please Pray for These Women.
“Then we should hold funerals for miscarriages. We do not, we just flush.”
You’re beyond cruel. To think that you would fault a family for grieving the loss of one of their own is absolutely barbaric. My mother had a miscarriage at 7 months once. My brother Christopher was cremated, and we didn’t “just flush”. We have his ashes safely here at home and think of him often. We grieved for days over his passing. You people have no heart.
When does life begin? At conception? Then we should hold funerals for miscarriages. We do not, we just flush.
It is actually more common than you realize that women bury their miscarried babies. I know several women who have done so, and my husband and I also buried ours.
Do you want to terrorize the women who have had a miscarrage as well?
Want to terrorize a woman who has had a miscarriage? Minimize her experience and tell her her baby was worthless.
I find your attack on this woman to be savage. You have no idea what circumstances played into her decision. And worse yet, you don’t care. You’ve found a target for your hatred.
Where do you see hatred? I see many people reaching out to this woman to help her.
Jesus warned “Judge not least you be judged.” Like all the sinners throwing stones, you are guilty of a crime far worse than hers. God grant you the wisdom to see that self-righteous and righteous are not the same.
It seems that you are throwing stones at us.
Only when women stop attacking each other – will we begin to care for the children who die of hunger every day. The children who are beaten to death by teenage parents.
The majority of abused children are wanted, not unwanted. Abortion does not solve child hunger or abuse.
When so very many of them are in dire need of help –
Why do you think there are so many pregnancy resource centers where everything that an expecting mother or a mother to a child could ask for is provided for them, free of cost (over twice as many as abortion clinics- most of them privately funded)? I don’t see pro-abortion centers which donate food, clothing, shelter, transportation, gas, furniture, etc to pregnant women…only abortion or birth control.
Is abortion the only way to help pregnant women, in your opinion?
Red Queen stated that she WANTED to be her son’s mom. But the other children she didn’t EVER want so she aborted them. I am really confused how wanting or not wanting someone changes their biology!
So if the homeless are unwanted and forgotten by society its okay for me to go out tonight and put a bullet in each of their skulls? Because being wanted by another person determines your humanity, right? How can these pro-aborts not realize how utterly ridiculous their decision making process is?
I have a toddler son and i want him right now. So he’s human. But if I ever DIDN’T want him I could just kill him, right? Because at that moment he isn’t human anymore….
I have posted before I have many friends who’ve had abortions. The grief is so deep and so raw…it chills me to the bone. They try to deny that the abortion ever affected them but then in the next breath they are pouring out their guilt and sorrow for their babies.
One friend was going to have another abortion but I talked her out of it. I told her abortion was a FINAL solution to temporary problems. Her family all pressured her to abort. She made the appointment. Then she fretted and cried how she didn’t want to do it.
She finally decided to have her baby. And once she said she was NOT going to abort her family came around and today love that little baby girl more than anyone!!!! She thanked me over and over for talking her out of the abortion. In the hospital she held her newborn and sobbed ” I can’t believe I almost threw her away” I have never forgotten that moment.
and all the situations that existed went away. This girl is married to the baby’s father, back in school, has a nice little home, her family is behind her 100%…it all worked out and this baby girl is a doll and the apple of her mommy’s eye.
Abortion doesn’t solve any problems it just creates more.
Sydney,
Good points, girl!!
Also, I am so proud of you for talking your friend out of an abortion!! So many friends think that standing by and saying nothing while a baby dies and a woman is wounded is being “supportive.”
My heart aches for the women who really do regret what they have done and don’t know where to turn. There are so many abortion recovery resources and I hope and pray that all hurting women who have chosen abortion get the help they need.
National Helpline for Abortion Recovery
1-866-482-LIFE
Please email me if you or your friends need anything. :)
At the very least – please don’t prevent women for getting tested for cancer, heart disease or diabetes because you’re scare mongering for the Health Insurance Companies.
Health Care Reform WOULD NOT cover abortion.
The Hyde Amendment would prevent any federal money from being used for abortion.
Bobby Bambino at August 19, 2009 6:26 AM
Bobby, thank you for explaining this so well…
I have done it. I was already quite ill when it happened. It wasn’t even a decision about which one of us would survive. My lung disease had progressed to the point where I didn’t have enough oxygen to keep me alive. The fetus would be dead. The only question was whether it would take me with it. Still, I anguished about the decision, waiting for a miracle. Waiting, and risking my own life for each day I delayed. Praying for God to intercede and take the burden from me. As each day passed, I knew that the fetus was slowly dying. I could do nothing to save it. My body was barely keeping me alive. Finally, I could postpone it no longer.
Before abortion ripped this country apart, this would have been a medical decision, a medical procedure. A woman in my circumstance would have been admitted to the hospital. I would have had my own doctor and nurses to guarantee my safety and to help me grieve. That is no longer possible. So in spite of the extreme danger to my health, I had to make the long three hour drive into the city to find a clinic. I cried all the way there in the car. I was heart broken. I was heartsick.
When we arrived at the clinic, the words “Baby killer” had been scrawled on the crosswalk in red paint. As I walked to the door of the clinic, anti-abortion activists descended on me like vultures on a dying carcass. They hurled insults and pamphlets at me. I fought my way through them, nearly hysterical. When I went to grab the doorknob, it was dripping with red paint. I pulled my hand back in horror. Somehow I managed to get inside before I broke down in sobs. A kind woman came from behind the reception desk and put her arms around me and held me until I was able to stand on my own. “Is it always like this?” I asked. “Some days it’s worse. Some days we need a police escort. But don’t worry; you’re safe in here” she said, as she took my coat. I signed in at the reception desk and found a seat in the waiting room.
There were other women scattered about the waiting room. They ran the gambit of age and social standing, of religion and education. A well dressed older woman sat alone in the corner tapping her manicured nails on the table. Thank goodness she left quickly. Her nervous tapping was setting my nerves on edge. A frazzled housewifey looking woman sat near the door. Her shoulders hunched forward, she looked like she was ready to bolt. She wore no make up, her hair was uncombed and she had huge black circles under her eyes. We shared a glance, a knowing, painful desperate glance. Across the room, in the seat closest to the reception desk, was a little girl who looked no more than fifteen. She looked like a little broken doll. The fear in her face was palpable. I looked for a parent, a friend, someone to comfort her. She was alone.
I spent most of the day with these women. By the time we left, we knew each other’s stories. We knew each other’s pain intimately. The well-dressed woman was mid-menopause. She had three gown children; finishing college and having families of their own. She had been married twenty five years. Her life was settled and her change of life pregnancy was not welcomed by her family. She had the amino done and it showed that the child would be challenged. Her husband had threatened to leave her if she didn’t terminate the pregnancy. She tapped nervously with her elegant nails all day long.
The housewife woman, was a single working Mom with two kids and two jobs. Caught off guard when her car broke down on her way home from the graveyard shift, she had been violently raped. She knew that no matter how hard she tried, she could never love this child. Some do. Some can go beyond the brutality and the violence of the conception. Some have faith so strong they can do that. But she knew in her heart she could not. Her mental state was fragile. She was still unable to sleep, to drive alone, and to bear the sound of her own thoughts. This child would know her anger. In her womb, it would feel her anger. For its sake, for her children’s sake and for her sanity, she chose to end the pregnancy.
The little girl was the victim of incest. One night, when her parents were out and she was babysitting her younger sisters, her uncle showed up. Her mother’s brother, her favorite uncle, found her asleep in her bedroom. She woke with his hand over her mouth as he said, “Don’t scream! Don’t wake your sisters!” And he pulled up her nightgown, took her childhood and shattered her life into a million pieces. The brutality to her body was only the beginning. She hid her injuries as long as she could. Finally, she went to a clinic for treatment and found out about the pregnancy. They told her about abortion. They told her little else. She went home to her mother and sisters. But she could not speak. She did not scream. She stayed silent until now. Now she screamed. Now she could not stop screaming.
We spent the day together, the 13 of us. First we each had an interview with a social worker. She explained the procedure, warned us about possible complications. She told us that we were not obligated to stay. We could change our minds at the very last minute and leave. During the day, we were all given numerous opportunities to change our minds and cancel the procedure. I considered it but the crowd stationed outside terrified me. Those people who came to “save the babies” may have actually had the opposite effect. And the pamphlets they were hurling at me like missiles were given to us by the staff of the clinic.
Next we got a preliminary exam with the nurse. Finally we undressed and waited in a line on a gurney. Thirteen gurneys lined up in the hallway. One by one we were pushed through the double doors to the procedure room. I was number eight. Time seemed to stand still in that hallway. Finally, when my turn came, I looked at the doctor, took his arm and said, “I hope you’re not tired.” He gave me half a smile and said, “Don’t worry. You’re safe.” I couldn’t help myself, I said, “Why do you do this? How can you do this?” The same vultures that attacked me that day would be waiting for the doctor. They slashed their tires, keyed their cars. The clinic staff must have known about the people who had been killed. The clinics that had been bombed. So I asked again, “Why do you do this?” “My mother” he said, “Raped when I was 13 and butchered in a back alley abortion. My mother deserved better and so do you.”
I hate abortion. No, let me make this point perfectly clear, I hate abortion the way only someone who has been through it can. It is a ghastly procedure. You know what bothers me more? Newborn babies in dumpsters, five year old rape victims, and babies battered and bruised by the ignorance of teenage parents, children discarded on our streets or sold into sexual slavery, that’s what really gets me. Child warriors in Africa with their arms chopped off. Children dying for years in Darfur because we owe China money. Children who become suicide bombers because their lives are full of never-ending despair. Children orphaned by an AIDS and crippled by land mines. That’s what gets me. Know what else I don’t get? If life begins at conception, then why are there no funerals for miscarriages? Or is the toilet flush burial at sea? No last rites? All this wringing of hands and in the end, it’s a toilet flush either way.
On this planet, there is no shortage of children. They are everywhere. There is however, a historic shortage of people who care for children. Where are they? Where are the great Mothers? Who’s minding the kids? Who speaks for the children? And we sit silent and fill our lives with American Idle. That’s what gets me.
Why is it that those people who attacked me in the parking lot – are the same ones who deny funding for unwed mothers? The ones who ignore the plight of children across the world? Why do they only care about them when they are in the womb? Once they are born they discard them. Why is that? I want to find an alternative to abortion. I want to lend my voice to those who want to find a solution. I want an end to the culture wars for the sake of our children. But just like their insults kept me from leaving the clinic, their intolerant attitude has kept me silent on this issue. I want to speak but I do not want to join their club. I will not join any club that forces a child to give birth to her cousin. Or a club that makes a woman live with the daily reminder that her body has been intimately violated and the demon left part of himself inside. Or even that a child is born into a family who blames the dissolution of a family on its birth.
I want my own club. I want a grown up woman club where we get to discuss this without the gory pictures. I don’t know when life begins. But we know when it’s viable, when it becomes able to live outside the womb. Let’s start there.
The other day I got an email for a woman who was one of those people outside the clinic. She said she had no idea. She told me that she was sorry that she had added to my pain. She told me why she had devoted so much time to ending abortion. I must say we opened each other’s eyes. I might question her tactics but her intentions and her motives were as loving and caring as can be. She genuinely believed that if women were just given hope they would change their minds. She wanted to save them not hurt them.
We can find the things we agree on. We can agree that little girls should never go through this alone. We can agree that there is an optimum time for this procedure. Maybe that’s at the “quickening” as St. Thomas Aquinas said. We can agree that late term abortion is dangerous and should only be done under extreme circumstances. There may be other things we can agree on but I still defend the right to make the choice. I do not want the government in my womb. I do not want them to tell me that I must or that I can’t have a child. Once we give them that right, they will use it. In China they force abortions. It’s the other side of the same coin. Only the woman who will live with the decision should make the choice. It is now and always has been about Choice.
actually I believe it was Saint AUGUSTINE that said “quickening” but we all know the TRUTH is that life begins at CONCEPTION. Some just like to deny that because they don’t want to believe it.
Rape: A baby doesn’t choose to be conceived that way. Why should he/she be punished for the crimes of the father? Same with incest. Too bad that girl didn’t report her uncle to the police.
You may be the same kind of woman who would have stoned Mary for being pregnant out of wedlock. You have no idea what God has said to those women. And beating up on them will not ease your pain. It only makes you numb.
Sharon,
All of these cases you speak of are so sad. And don’t think for a moment that we don’t care about each one of these women! I ask, do you think that the abortion done by these women ended their pain? Do you think that little girl was able to go home and forget about her uncle, just because that part of him was gone from her physical body? Imagine if we treated all cases of child abuse this way. If the child was abused, then kill them to end their missery. Neither the little girl nor her child asked for their pain. But both of them were asking to live.
The woman whose husband threatened to leave her. Do you think that all was well then she returned home? Was that killing a fix to the problem. She very obviously has a problem in her marriage! Marriage is no place for “do this or I leave.”
There is someone there to TRUELY help everyone of these women if they only will look. They won’t rip her child from her and never see her again. Allowing abortion is certainly no way to end child abuse and starvation in our world. The problem with all of it is a simple…utter disregard for life, young or old, born or unborn. To hurt a human in any form is disgusting. That all there is to it. Stop it all! Don’t try to fix abuse by way of murder.
Then would you have all women who have had a miscarriage jailed for manslaughter? If live begins at conception – then is sperm sacred? Would masturbation be considered mass murder?
Only God knows when life begins. I do not want the government in my womb. I do not want them telling me that I must have a child or (as they do in China) that I must abort a child. Once you give them that right they will most certainly abuse it.
True pro-lifers do not want to stone anyone, woman or child. Don’t blame all for the actions of a few. We want to cherish the sanctity of ALL life!
Sharon, will we then say that we do not want the government in our home? We may do with our children what we want, within our own home? Sperm is sperm, it is not a fertilized egg. Miscarriage is not something we do willfully. Abortion is willful, purposely done.
Sharon,
If you were deathly ill with lung disease, why weren’t you in the hospital instead of driving to the abortion clinic? A hospital would have made every effort to save your life and your baby’s life.
Yes, Janet, I struggled with the fact that a hospital would have sent her home on her death bed, to go have an abortion in a clinic.
God knows when life begins and He has told us so we can know that as well. Life begins at conception.
For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother’s womb. Psalm 139:13
Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139:16
Sharon,
I am sorry for what you have gone through. I am sorry that prolifers were so frightening and “in your face.” I am sorry that the best the proabort crowd has to offer is killing our children.(Yours and mine) How did abortion solve anything in the lives of these women? How does abortion help? How does it heal?
My two sweet babies, Jamie and Lee did not die because of me. I miscarried them both early in the pregnancy and did nothing to cause their deaths. God had His own reasons. He allowed the miscarriages to happen so I can help others who grieve their babies.
To Kirsten:
I know what it is like to lose my unborn child. I have not had an abortion, but I have had a miscarriage. It hurt a lot physically–but that was nothing compared to what I felt emotionally. It felt like the lining of my uterus was being flayed, but my heart and soul felt worse. She had been conceived three weeks before, and I loved her. That was the time I was sure. I have also lost other children, I believe, but I am not sure. And while I know that I will see them one day, and that they cannot be–could not have been–here in this lifetime, I also know that they should be. That this was not what God intended. That one day all children will be born whole and healthy. One day I will meet all of my children. Until that day I will miss them and mourn them. Not all the time–not even every day–but when I think about Joseph, Isaiah, Elisha, Enoch, Simon Hosea, Ruby, Maranatha, Michael, Joy, and Ebenezer, I wish them and I miss they were here. The pain is like nothing else.
I have a beautiful fifteen-month-old baby girl, Hannah, who is always learning and doing new things. She loves to climb into my lap, to bring me a ball or a stuffed cat, to wave bye-bye as she heads off to another room. And I have a baby boy, Peter, who God willing will be born in December. I often feel him kicking or doing somersaults inside me, and I can’t wait to meet him. I cherish feeling him move inside me, and every day I tell them both, “Mommy loves you.”
And one day they (and my other children) will know how much I love their brothers and sisters that went before them as well. Because they are my children too.
Please do not make this decision. So many people have chosen life, and none regret their choice. Because for those who chose life, it’s not a choice anymore–it’s about a little boy or girl whom they love. And so many who made the decision not to have their child mourn him or her, as several here have mentioned. To them that child is still a boy or a girl, but one that they will never meet on earth. You are already a mother–I pray that you would choose to be a mother of a child that you can have or hold, to this little boy or girl who is growing and moving inside of you, whose heart is probably already beating, who yet knows nothing but warmth and safety–nothing but you.
Sharon: Science knows when life begins. Your argument about masturbation being considered mass murder is nonsensical because sperm cells are just that, cells. Everyone is made of cells, but the cells of an unborn child have an entirely different DNA pattern from either of the parents. An unborn child is a separate entity. He or she may be in a woman’s body, but he or she is not genetically part of that woman’s body.
Your abortion sounds like it was horrible, and I’m sorry that you found yourself in such terrible circumstances. Clearly you would have rather not had one.
Having an abortion didn’t change the fact that the middle-aged woman’s husband was the sort of man who would leave his wife if she had a mentally retarded child. I think their marriage is probably doomed no matter what unless he has a serious change of heart and seeks her forgiveness. Having abortions didn’t unrape the woman and girl who were raped. It wasn’t some sort of magic operation that could make them forget the whole thing ever happened.
No one here is claiming that women should be forced to raise children they don’t want to raise. We’re claiming that it is morally wrong to kill those children, and we think it’s terrible that these women felt as though having their babies would ruin their lives when in fact having an abortion will ruin them.
My boyfriend’s aunt had a funeral for her miscarried twin girls. She named them Mary Catherine and Mary Elizabeth.
“Rape: A baby doesn’t choose to be conceived that way. Why should he/she be punished for the crimes of the father?”
Exactly. Frederick Douglass’s father was a white man and probably his master. Clearly the relationship between his parents wasn’t consensual, but think what a great writer, activist, American, and human being the world would have missed out on if Frederick Douglass had never been born.
The other day I took the van to the doctor’s office. I am in a wheelchair and the city provides van service for those of us who can’t ride the bus. On this particular day the driver was overtly hostile and abusive. I told him that his behavior was unacceptable. Actually I was much more vocal than that. He was being a bully and I was “speaking out for all those disabled people who can not speak for themselves.” Or so I thought.
Later, as I was waiting for my ride home, I saw a young woman with a baby sitting on the side walk. She looked a little scared. I rode up in my chair and stopped to talk a bit. Normally I’m not terribly extroverted – but young women with babies’ kind of pull at my heartstrings. I asked why she was sitting on the sidewalk. She was waiting for a ride too. As we spoke I saw the tension relax and she started to smile as she spoke proudly of her baby.
When I got home, the first thing I did was report the driver. Not happy with a simple complaint, I asked for his supervisor. I was so insistent that they told me he would be given an official reprimand and put on disciplinary probation. I hung up the phone feeling like a superhero. I had vanquished the villain and comforted the children. Yea me.
Then I said a little prayer to let God know how wonderful I was (just in case he wasn’t watching). I was only three seconds into the prayer when it hit me like a lightening bolt.
When my kids were little and they’d get into those stupid never-ending arguments, I used to say, “Do you want to win the argument or solve the problem because you can’t do both.”
As I was praying, I realized that I had won the argument but I had not solved the problem. In fact, I probably made it worse. I remembered the words of Mother Teresa, who said, as she worked with the poorest of the poor in India, that she saw only the face of Jesus. I realized that both those people, the angry man and the frightened mother, were the face of Jesus.
Without knowing anything about him, I had demonized the driver. He could have been a man with a spotless employment record who was dealing unbearable back pain form a recent accident where he saved the lives of several disabled people. He could have just received the news that is son was killed in Afghanistan, or that his wife was diagnosed with cancer. I didn’t know and I didn’t care to know. I had found a target for my anger and I took aim. My only concern was proving I was right.
He was hostile but my attitude only fueled his anger. If I had been righteous and not self-righteous I would have known that. If I had truly been listening to God then I would have seen him as another child of God in pain. Just as much pain as the young woman.
You have done the same. You intruded uninvited into a conversation about facts. In your quest to deny a young woman facts, you demonized another young woman, without bothering to try to understand her pain. No wonder she had turned her back on you. You do not wish to solve this problem, you only wish to win the argument. Your demonizing of her plight is ghastly. What if I took that name of someone on your blog, and made them a target? I can post their name and a photo, investigate them, incite people to fill there hearts with hatred. Then if some crazy person decided to do them harm – how would you fell. (At least take down the photo, if this woman is harmed you are guilty of murder)
The name of Christ is antithetical here.
This is not the way to solve the problem. It’s a way to punish someone else for your sins. When you say you will pray for someone, you only mean you will pray that they find out that you are right. Oh sister, you are not sinless and yet your hands are full of stones.
There is no light here.
Sharon,
Suppose you are correct and that all pro-lifers are the most hypocritical, judgmental, maniacal, fanatical, egotistical, self-righteous people on the planet, and that we hate all born people with a passion and women in particular. How does it then follow from this that abortion is not the taking of an innocent human life?
Open blogs are invitations, we have denied no facts, in actually, tried to give fact. We have demonized no one, some have demonized themselves. Many of us do understand her pain, that is why we are here. We do not wish to win the arguement, we wish to win the war on children, aborted, abused, starved and neglected in any way shape or form. God is love and just, he wants us to love and to win that war, to fight the battle for those that can not. To sit by idly would be horrific.
Sharon:
“If someone really is pro-life – they would also cherish the life of the woman who struggles with an unwanted pregnancy.”
Yes. Enough that they want better for her than violation with surgical instruments, better for her than losing her unborn child. Enough that they don’t want her going into a shack that proves that making abortion legal didn’t bring it out of the back alley. Enough that they don’t want her treated by worst-in-class med students or those who just would sell their soul for enough money, but doctors who care about their patients and who live by the oath they took to do no harm.
I have never heard anyone say that abortion should be illegal when the mother’s life is in legitimate danger.
“In spite of the science, conception continues to be a mystery. What exactly causes one egg to implant firmly and others to wash away?”
Sometimes, defects in the uterine lining, often caused by past or present use of birth control. Often, genetic defects in the newly created baby. Sometimes, a condition that the mother has which affects her ability to conceive a child and/or carry him or her to term. No, we don’t always know, but often it is known or can be known. Does the existence of SIDS change the value of a newborn?
“When does life begin? At conception? Then we should hold funerals for miscarriages. We do not, we just flush. Do you want to terrorize the women who have had a miscarrage as well?”
Sharon, you are without a doubt the one who is terrorizing women who miscarry. You are the only one who has suggested they bear the responsibility for the tragic event, let alone that they should go to jail for it. Never on a pro-life site have I ever seen anything but respect and understanding and love offered to a mother who miscarried, or even a mother who aborted and regretted it.
I devoutly wish I could have had a funeral. I wish I could have buried my children. I wish they could have had respect and love from someone other than my husband and I. But I was afraid of someone like you. I was afraid of hearing things that started with “at least.” At least you hadn’t bonded yet. At least it was early. At least she is not in pain. At least it wasn’t a real baby. To this day my own family does not know. Because I would rather hear nothing, and bear this alone, than hear my baby treated like a piece of meaningless tissue.
“just flush.” That is the most insulting, demeaning, awful, hurtful thing I have ever heard. When I knew I was miscarrying I tried to save her remains. I put them in a ziploc bag in the refridgerator. I didn’t know what else to do. I wrote her name on it. I wasn’t even sure that what was in the bag was her, but I tried. I tried to give it to the doctor, who didn’t believe I had miscarried. She said something like “ew, no.” I would have buried her myself. She deserved that. But it was winter. And yes, I flushed my daughter. Because I had no choice. Because I had no one who understood. Because I could not just keep her.
I can’t remember the last time I cried this much. Is that why you say the things you do? To make women cry? To make them relive losing the children they dearly loved? Her name was Ruby, and she was my daughter. At three weeks I already loved her. She was alive, and she died. She was loved, and she was lost. And because I cannot say why, because I had so little support and was afraid of what I would find if I looked, I should stand idly by and say nothing while others kill what I so desperately wanted to hold on to? Because I had no choice, I should support others’ choices which I know to be evil?
“I find your attack on this woman to be savage. You have no idea what circumstances played into her decision. And worse yet, you don’t care. You’ve found a target for your hatred.”
I saw no attack–only desperate pleas for her child’s life. You seem to be the one doing the attacking. The closest I saw was one man who wondered why she had made her choices and did not think we should bear responsibility for them.
“Jesus warned ‘Judge not least [sic] you be judged.’ Like all the sinners throwing stones, you are guilty of a crime far worse than hers. God grant you the wisdom to see that self-righteous and righteous are not the same.”
I saw very little judgement. And we are quite willing to be judged for what we have said. Why is it wrong to think we are right? Do you think you are right? If not, why do you speak? Have you asked God for wisdom? He gives generously to those who ask. And we are commanded to be discerning, to judge what acts are right and wrong. We are not to judge the sinner, but in a democracy, where we elect those who make the law, we are absolutely to judge which actions should be against it.
“Only when women stop attacking each other – will we begin to care for the children who die of hunger every day. The children who are beaten to death by teenage parents. The children who are sold into sexual slavery. When so very many of them are in dire need of help – it is such a shame to waste your energy punishing women you could not bear to add to those numbers.”
Please do stop attacking us. Why is it okay to fight hunger for the born, but not to fight against drugs which prevent the unborn from receiving nutrition? Why is it okay to fight when children are beaten to death, but not when younger children have poison injected into their hearts? Why should we work against the sexual exploitation of born children, but not against the violation of a woman’s womb to rip an unborn child to pieces? What is the difference? No woman in the US–and that is where we are talking about–is forced to sell her children into slavery, or beat them, or cannot get food for them. I would gladly help anyone avoid such a thing. How many hungry, abused, or exploited children have you helped? How many pregnant women have you taken in when they were in hard situations, and had nowhere else to go? Are you immune from criticism on this front because you would just have killed those children to eliminate the problem?
“I hate abortion. No, let me make this point perfectly clear, I hate abortion the way only someone who has been through it can. It is a ghastly procedure.”
Good. But if that time comes–I think it will–will you really advocate against forced abortion? Will you protest if prenatal testing becomes mandatory, and those who “fail” are offered compensation for abortion, but not for birth? Will you take to the streets when “infertility” isn’t covered, and that includes drugs to save the lives of naturally conceived children? Will you carry a sign when a “vaccine” to “prevent pregnancy” becomes mandatory for women in certain fields? Or will you be more like those who were against the war in Iraq when Bush was fighting it, but not now that Obama is? Those who deplore so-called “forced childbearing” but praise China’s “responsible” policies?
“You know what bothers me more? Newborn babies in dumpsters, five year old rape victims, and babies battered and bruised by the ignorance of teenage parents, children discarded on our streets or sold into sexual slavery, that’s what really gets me. Child warriors in Africa with their arms chopped off. Children dying for years in Darfur because we owe China money. Children who become suicide bombers because their lives are full of never-ending despair. Children orphaned by an AIDS [sic] and crippled by land mines. That’s what gets me.”
And none of us wants to stop you from working to end these things. But you aren’t working to end these things. You’re just working to ensure that these children can die earlier. And did it ever occur to you that many of these children who are now child soldiers, or dying of starvation, or AIDS orphans, or crippled by land mines, were wanted? That some are still wanted, by someone?
Many people here–myself included–would gladly take in any of those children. Would have taken them gladly before their situation became so desperate. Would be thrilled to accept into their home a baby who would otherwise have been beaten, or abandoned. Would be delighted to welcome a child whose father raped his or her mother, incest or no, a child born with a disability, a child born in a country where there were few options other than prostitution, whether or not these children’s mothers ever considered having them sucked out of their wombs and shredded. But adoption is a long, expensive, invasive process, and many who would lovingly welcome an adopted child cannot shell out 15-30 thousand dollars to do it, or don’t qualify for other reasons. What are you doing about that? Other than advocating that death would be better?
“On this planet, there is no shortage of children. They are everywhere. There is however, a historic shortage of people who care for children. Where are they? Where are the great Mothers? Who’s minding the kids?”
There are a great many. They are barred from taking in those children who need them. Why are there some people waiting years to adopt if there is no shortage of children? And why advocate killing babies when they are ones most likely to be adopted?
“Who speaks for the children?”
We do.
“And we sit silent and fill our lives with American Idle [sic].”
You’re projecting.
“Why is it that those people who attacked me in the parking lot –”
If your story is true, it is deplorable that you were treated that way. Some have already pointed to a few inconsistencies. I have no doubt that you exaggerate the resistance you encountered if you did have an abortion, for whatever reason.
“are the same ones who deny funding for unwed mothers? The ones who ignore the plight of children across the world? Why do they only care about them when they are in the womb? Once they are born they discard them. Why is that?”
There is a difference between denying funding and denying government funding. Some do not believe that giving people money for everything is the role of government. Most of those do believe it is the role of the church and/or charity and/or individuals. And they put there money where their mouth is by donating to charity.
No, it is the pro-ripping-babies-apart crowd that discards children. They discard them when they are deemed unwanted. They discard the mothers when they do want their children, or they regret their abortions–they got their “help” when they were offered the “choice” of killing their baby–and that “choice” alone. They discard the children that are born alive, despite an abortionists’ intent to kill, leaving the child in a biohazard bag until he or she stops crying. They discard the children who are born, and then, it is determined, unwanted due to some defect. And when children are beaten or abandoned or neglected, they say, “See? That one should have been killed before birth.” And that is their compassion.
“I want to find an alternative to abortion. I want to lend my voice to those who want to find a solution.”
What do you have in mind? The pro-life side has lots of suggestions. But the pro-poisoning-prenatal-people groups just suggest throwing more money at birth control (which hasn’t worked) or killing the children even earlier.
“I want an end to the culture wars for the sake of our children. But just like their insults kept me from leaving the clinic, their intolerant attitude has kept me silent on this issue.”
If you are silent, by your own words, you are culpable. If a pro-lifer does not simultaneously work to end all forms of hunger and abuse, while personally helping damaged women and children, he or she is not really pro-life, according to you. So certainly for you to be silent, no matter how much you disagree with other voices arguing the same point, is unacceptable. Thus you are not really against abortion.
“I will not join any club that forces a child to give birth to her cousin. Or a club that makes a woman live with the daily reminder that her body has been intimately violated and the demon left part of himself inside. Or even that a child is born into a family who blames the dissolution of a family on its birth.”
Which of those three fetal human beings is responsible for his or her circumstance? Why should he or she be punished? Why is adoption never an option? Would you support these women if they did want to keep their children, or if they wanted to find those children homes where they would know love? Or is it only one choice you want them to have access to?
“I want my own club. I want a grown up woman club where we get to discuss this without the gory pictures.”
They’re out there. What about pictures of cute babies? Living babies in utero? Are those offensive too? Why aren’t men allowed in your club?
“I don’t know when life begins.”
Yes, you already have shown you don’t know science. Or is this a religious question?
“But we know when it’s viable, when it becomes able to live outside the womb.”
So you don’t believe in late-term abortions? Even in all of those hard cases you mentioned, like a baby’s disability, a family splitting up, rape, incest? I don’t believe you, frankly. Not to mention that “viability” is different for different children, and keeps getting pushed earlier. Most pro-killing-fetal-humans-ers have stopped talking about viability, because it’s getting so early. And I have no doubt it will get earlier (unless the new health care plan simply forbids saving more and more premature infants).
“We can find the things we agree on. We can agree that little girls should never go through this alone.”
Yes, little girls and boys should get to stay inside their mommies for as long as possible… oh, wait, you don’t care about those little girls. Don’t tell me you’re in favor of parental notification? How would this be implemented? I absolutely would take in a girl who needed a place to stay. I would not support her through an abortion. If that makes me a bad person in your eyes, so be it.
“We can agree that there is an optimum time for this procedure. Maybe that’s at the “quickening” as St. Thomas Aquinas said.”
I assume you mean before quickening? No. There is not. There is never a time it is okay to kill a baby.
“We can agree that late term abortion is dangerous and should only be done under extreme circumstances.”
See, I knew you didn’t really think there was a problem with it. Now, why would there be a need to do an abortion after viability?
“There may be other things we can agree on but I still defend the right to make the choice. I do not want the government in my womb.”
I don’t want the government in my womb either. That’s why I’m so afraid of socialized medicine. So if you agree abortion isn’t always right, why do you always defend it? If a daughter is born breech, can they kill her once they realize she is not a son, before she is completely born? If it’s too quick, can they kill her before the placenta is delivered? How about after?
“I do not want them to tell me that I must or that I can’t have a child. Once we give them that right, they will use it. In China they force abortions.”
Yup, in total agreement. Where we disagree is that I know a pregnant woman already has a child, and I simply want that child to have a right not to be killed. You want her to have a choice of a dead child or a living child.
“It’s the other side of the same coin. Only the woman who will live with the decision should make the choice. It is now and always has been about Choice.”
What about the father? Does he have a choice? Grandparents? Siblings? Siblings not yet born? Aunts and uncles? Will they not all have to live with the choice? And then there is the baby… only one choice he or she can live with.
“Then would you have all women who have had a miscarriage jailed for manslaughter?”
Science (of which you think so highly and know so little) has shown that miscarriage is rarely the fault of the pregnant woman. This isn’t like accidentally running over someone–more like someone dying while borrowing your car. Unless you sabotaged the car, there’s no way you are at fault.
“If live begins at conception – then is sperm sacred? Would masturbation be considered mass murder?”
Do you even know what conception means? Sperm is alive, but it is not a human being. I wouldn’t kill sperm myself, but I wouldn’t make it a crime. Even sex resulting in pregnancy leaves thousands of dead sperm. Conception is the joining of sperm and egg, neither of which has a lifespan beyond a few days on its own. The zygote–a union of the sperm and a fertilized egg–is the living human being. And yes, it is alive and growing and needs only time and nutrition and a supportive environment to become what we can all recognize as a baby.
“Once you give them that right they will most certainly abuse it.”
But abortion used to be illegal.
“I devoutly wish I could have had a funeral. I wish I could have buried my children. I wish they could have had respect and love from someone other than my husband and I. But I was afraid of someone like you. I was afraid of hearing things that started with “at least.” At least you hadn’t bonded yet. At least it was early. At least she is not in pain. At least it wasn’t a real baby. To this day my own family does not know. Because I would rather hear nothing, and bear this alone, than hear my baby treated like a piece of meaningless tissue.”
YCW, If I haven’t mentioned it before, I am so sorry for the loss of your child. It never ceases to tear at my heart. You have a little treasure in heaven waiting for you. God love you.
The other day I took the van to the doctor’s office. I am in a wheelchair and the city provides van service for those of us who can’t ride the bus. On this particular day the driver was overtly hostile and abusive. I told him that his behavior was unacceptable. Actually I was much more vocal than that. He was being a bully and I was “speaking out for all those disabled people who can not speak for themselves.” Or so I thought.
Later, as I was waiting for my ride home, I saw a young woman with a baby sitting on the side walk. She looked a little scared. I rode up in my chair and stopped to talk a bit. Normally I’m not terribly extroverted – but young women with babies’ kind of pull at my heartstrings. I asked why she was sitting on the sidewalk. She was waiting for a ride too. As we spoke I saw the tension relax and she started to smile as she spoke proudly of her baby.
When I got home, the first thing I did was report the driver. Not happy with a simple complaint, I asked for his supervisor. I was so insistent that they told me he would be given an official reprimand and put on disciplinary probation. I hung up the phone feeling like a superhero. I had vanquished the villain and comforted the children. Yea me.
Then I said a little prayer to let God know how wonderful I was (just in case he wasn’t watching). I was only three seconds into the prayer when it hit me like a lightening bolt.
When my kids were little and they’d get into those stupid never-ending arguments, I used to say, “Do you want to win the argument or solve the problem because you can’t do both.”
As I was praying, I realized that I had won the argument but I had not solved the problem. In fact, I probably made it worse. I remembered the words of Mother Teresa, who said, as she worked with the poorest of the poor in India, that she saw only the face of Jesus. I realized that both those people, the angry man and the frightened mother, were the face of Jesus.
Without knowing anything about him, I had demonized the driver. He could have been a man with a spotless employment record who was dealing with unbearable back pain form a recent accident where he saved the lives of several disabled people. He could have just received the news that is son was killed in Afghanistan, or that his wife was diagnosed with cancer. I didn’t know and I didn’t care to know. I had found a target for my anger and I took aim. My only concern was proving I was right.
He was hostile but my attitude only fueled his anger. If I had been righteous and not self-righteous I would have known that. If I had been listening to God, instead of my own need for validation, then I would have seen him as another child of God in pain. Just as much pain as the young woman.
You have done the same. You intruded uninvited into a conversation about facts. In your quest to deny a young woman facts, you demonized another young woman, without bothering to try to understand her pain. No wonder she had turned her backto you. Your demonizing of her plight is ghastly. Your targeting her should be criminal.
What if I took that name of someone on your blog, and made them a target? I can post there name, investigate them, post a photo, incite people to fill there hearts with hatred and send them hate mail. What if some crazy person decided to do them harm? Am I to blame? At least take down the picture. Your need to target others says more about you than your pro-forced childbirth stance.
The name of Christ is antithetical here.
This is not the way to solve the problem. It’s a way to punish someone else for your sins. When you say you will pray for someone, you only mean you will pray that they find out that you are right. Oh sister, you are not sinless and yet your hands are full of stones.
This was previously posted and deleted. HUM. censorship.
Sharon,
You posted the same thing twice.
“This was previously posted and deleted. HUM. censorship.”
Are you talking about the 11:59 am post? Because it is there, and was always up, never taken down, and frankly I don’t know why anyone would have taken it down or why you would make such a claim when it has been up the whole time.
In fact, my 12:14 PM post is in response to your 11:59 am post.
Drat, I should never read without those bifocals. Sorry ….(see how easy that was?)
It seems you’ve been busy demonizing me. So chew on this for a bit. A few years ago I was told that to survive I had to have a lung transplant. I want no part of any organ transplant. I think I want to greet God with my original equipment. My choice. I find this “medical procedure” every bit as barbaric as abortion. It is just Horrid. Unjustifiable. And yet, in the media it is glorified. Poor people rarely get transplants in time to survive. Yet rich people always do. Poor countries are just storage for spare people parts. Men sell kidneys to feed their kids.
Should I demonize all those who live on the organs of the dead? Picket and boycott and get names and publish bios and target those who use people’s bodies as spare human parts?
Oh that would be cruel eh? St Thomas Aquinas said that life begins at “quickening” and for thousands of years it was accepted. Yet now, if I mention that usually miscarriages are just flushed away – no ceremony, no death certificate – then I am a horrid person.
Manufactured outrage won’t solve real problems any more than an faked Kenyan birth certificate will undo a democratically elected president.
I’ve done a bit of research on this blogger. WOW. She’s part of the Obama Kenyan Birth Certificate group. Talk about “know them by their fruits” She uses “pro-life” as a hammer against anyone who isn’t “corporate friendly.”
They give us weapons to kill each other in the name of the sanctity of life.
Thank you, Bobby.
Sharon,
you are mixing science, religion, and philosophy…you’re all over the place, kiddo.
Honestly, that thing you posted about having an abortion sounds like a bit of copy/pasted pro-abortion rhetoric that smells pretty fishy to me (I think I might report it to Obama).
(and on a side note, I do think it’s pretty funny that you seem to list “5 year olds being raped” as possible candidates for having been aborted right after you mention a 13 year old seeking an abortion after being raped by her uncle…If that’s such a horrible way for a child to live, why didn’t you “abort” the teenager right where she stood?)
I would attempt to refute the rest of what you say, but BB, Carla, and everyone else have done a smashing job of that already, and since you seem to be trying to use religion against the people here, I’ll leave it to the experts. ;)
I will say though that if what you say has happened to you has actually happened…Just because you feel as though you had to do that doesn’t make it right, and the same goes for the other women there. Abortion isn’t help. You should’ve sought another opinion, perhaps a doctor or hospital who would’ve respected you AND your baby. The other women there didn’t need the fostering of weakness that is abortion. They needed help to be strong for their children.
Did anyone notice the Red Queen praising her “awesome school councilor” for helping her get an abortion without anyone else knowing? She’s in education now? How many girls has she “helped” by being “awesome”? Women like this need help. They’re trying so desperately to convince themselves that what they did was right by trying to make abortion the normal thing to do…They hurt so many more women. After reading this…and a recent exchange I had with someone on a YouTube video posted here…it’s a wonder there’s anyone left to see abortion for what it is anymore. Friends, sisters, mothers…they’re all having abortions, and rationalizing it to themselves and to their loved ones is perpetuating all this pain and bloodshed.
Sharon,
The difference between you refusing an organ transplant, and abortion, is one VERY important thing:
By refusing a transplant, YOU are the only person that is harmed.
By aborting, ANOTHER HUMAN LIFE IS ENDED BY A WILLFUL ACT.
it’s like pearls before swine.
i am done here. i just can’t live on the lunatic fringe.
Take the picture down and stop targeting people who don’t agree with you. How many people will you kill in the name of “life”?
I’m working on a website of my own. With pictures.
Oh yea, I’ll be praying for all of you stone throwers. Jesus loved fallen women.
It would seem that you came here Sharon to target people who don’t agree with you.
Good luck with your website.
This isn’t “the lunatic fringe”. I’m a moderate.
Nobody is being targeted here. Contrary to the propaganda machine, ordinary pro-lifers have no desire to harm other people. It’s funny that people assume that kind of stuff about us, especially when you compare us to…say…animal rights activists that do things like…bomb animal testing facilities on a regular basis or something.
xalisae
I am not surprised that you think that I should have died. You think that in spite of the fact that the fetus was dying inside me and putting my life in jeopardy – you think I shouldn’t have terminated the pregnancy. Thanks!
Once the pregnancy was terminated, my health improved in tiny incremements. It seems that God had other plans for me. I see this time as a gift and I have tried to use it as God wishes me to. I do not for a moment take my faith lightly. I do not feign my devotion or use God as an excuse for my actions. I have been blessed with the presence of God in my life and his guidance lights my path.
The story of the abortion clinic is an old one. It happened many years ago. The van driver was last week. The events, the words are all my own.
It takes a man (sperm) and a woman (egg) to create a fetus. But only God gives it life. Only God decides which on survives, which one is healthy, which one has extra burdens and which one has gifts. Terminating a pregnancy before it has been quickened by God is not murder. Once God has placed his spirit in that fetus and given it life that’s different. My fetus never quickened. It was never touched by God. Refusing treatment to a woman just to avoid removing a dead fetus is murder.
Before I read this blog I had some doubts about terminating a pregnancy. You vitriol has convinced me. Women who consider the lives of other women as “expendable” (as xalisae has mine) are not “pro life” at all. They are simply anti-woman. I no longer have doubts.
Mixing religion and philosophy? That’s like mixing sun and sky. I move between these worlds effortlessly.
With my whole heart, I ask God to guide your footsteps, fill your heart with his spirit. Oh great creator, bless those who have grown bitter from their suffering and grant them peace.
Carla
“I think that giggling on your unMother’s Day(the day you killed your child)is quite savage.”
I didn’t say this. Mine is a much different story. Please don’t lump everyone together so you can demonize en’masse.
Each woman is unique, each pregnancy is unique and each child is unique.
Hate generalizes.
xalisae
“This isn’t “the lunatic fringe”. I’m a moderate.
Nobody is being targeted here”
You have targeted the blogger and posted her picture. Take down the picture and I’ll believe you.
xalisae
Seven months is NOT a MISCARRIAGE. It’s a live birth. QA permature birth but a live birth. My first child was born at six months, he didn’t survive. He had a death certificate and a burial service. My nephew was born at seven months and was in the neonatal unit for months.
A miscarriage is usually during the first trimester. Most people don’t announce pregnancy till the end of the first trimester because of the possibility of miscarriage. A miscarriage does not require a death certificate and sometimes doesn’t even merit a hospital stay.
Hi Sharon,
Jill Stanek is the author of this blog. Maybe you’ve noticed other pictures of other people and other posts about other people as well. They are not targeted.
Jill has not given anyone else the authority to take down pictures or edit her words.
Something about your writing seems vaguely familiar to me. Hmmmmm…
Life begins at Conception. Study Embryology. Heart beats pretty early on (around 18-21 days), brain waves are detected around 40 days. Me thinks you’re confused, sharon.
And I am sure it wasn’t Thomas Aquianus. You’re mixing up quickening with ensoulment.
“Something about your writing seems vaguely familiar to me. Hmmmmm…”
TexasRed?
LOL Hooves. No, every other word isn’t an insult and we never saw the words “stupid”, “mindless tissue”, or “misogynistic.” Wow, I’m surprised you remember TR. Good for you :)
When did I ever say I wanted you to die? When have I said that I didn’t feel your life was important? Personally, I wouldn’t have taken “no” for an answer when it came to my child…I’d have gone to at least a few doctors before deciding that I couldn’t take any more and that my life was at risk. However, you’ll find most of the pro-lifers here (myself included) consider cases such as yours necessary. Just because I would’ve put up more of a fight doesn’t mean that the doctors wouldn’t have arrived at the same conclusion, and I wouldn’t have done the same thing in your place. If a person’s body cannot sustain another life, it just can’t (as in your case AND the case of some miscarriages), and neither myself nor anyone I know would advocate your death because of a medical condition. You want to hate me, so you are reading things that are not there. I’m sorry. If your life is in danger, what “choice” is that? You didn’t exercise your right to choose. You were forced. There is a difference. Instances like your case, miscarriages, and abortions are all very, very sad. The only difference is elective abortion is done solely at the urging of the mother, and for no other reason than her not wanting a child.
I haven’t targeted anyone. You’ll find I hate generalizations as much as you do, and I agree with the person who owns this blog almost as much as I disagree.
My brother was dead before he was born, Sharon. He died inside my mother. She had to have him taken out of her, much in the same way your baby was dying and you had to have him/her taken out to preserve your life. I don’t think you are evil. I don’t think my mother is evil. But we grieved my brother, all of us, as a family. You might need to grieve as well for yours. It’s ok to grieve. Don’t ever let them tell you otherwise.
But, as I said before, cases like this aren’t abortion, as we are talking about abortion. You’ve bought a lie, sweetheart. I wish you could let it go.
Oh wait… Hooves-in-Maw??? Nice to “see” you again.
Just an observation, moderator, this person “Sharon” does seem to offer a very long diatribe on the “need for abortion” on her supposed visit to an abortuary, where every person she met there had a “hard case” reason for their abortion. Someone here should post the statistics for “hard cases” for abortions, I don’t remember exactly but I think it is less than 5-10%, with only 1% due to rape or incest and the vast majority for elective reasons and convenience. I would think it very unusual to meet so many “hard cases” at one time. Sharon, if what you are reporting is true, then I do apologize for my skepticism but you seem to protest too much and some of your post do seem familiar. Regardless of whether you are telling the truth or not I will pray for you.
“Oh wait… Hooves-in-Maw??? Nice to “see” you again.”
Guilty…how ya been BB?
You’re right ProLifer L! Hard case like the older woman being threatened if she didn’t abort a special needs child, the incest case, etc.
But I am suspicious about the social worker saying it was “okay to leave”. That’s not what PP does. They *rarely* let women change their minds. And the giving of the pamphlets….from what I’ve seen outside my city’s local abortuary (praying silently, not causing a scene), the escorts do NOT want the women getting the pamphlets, so I doubt workers INSIDE would allow them to have such a thing.
Sharon,
You have lots of unresolved issues and you are speaking out of your woundedness.
That does not automatically mean that you are wrong, though most of what you have written will not hold up to any objective analysis.
It’s like you read a book entitled, ‘100 answers to refute pro-life arguments’, but you never actually engaged your own rational mind to determine if these ‘100 answers’ were true.
I promise you I will NOT pray for you unless the ONE who gives us both breath and life prompts me to do so.
From my perespective you have not yet successfully completed the current course of instruction that the LORD has enrolled you in.
You aint quite done yet.
The LORD may turn up the heat or HE may let you stew a little longer at the present temperature.
I was impressed with you taking the time to visit with the young lady with the baby. That ability to connect with strangers is a spritual gift from God that not only benefits others, but you as well. I would encourage you keep doing that.
You will experience healing in that place.
Peace, love, dove.
yor bro ken
No misrepresentation – facts noted in the story: “there were 13 of us that day” I told you of a few that haunt my memory. It seems they haunt yours as well and all this hysteria does nothing to prevent the situation that sent them to the abortion clinic to begin with. The others I didn’t get to know them or their stories.
xalisae
Well make up your mind. Last time you thought I should just die. Now you say the rules don’t apply to me. AGAIN and again you are WRONG. I am exactly the kind of woman who would be denied necessary medical care if you manage to outlaw pregnancy termination.
None of the doctors in my little town would perform the procedure. They had received death threats and no one wants to be targeted by the Pro-forced childbirth advocates. After the murder of Dr. Tiller can you blame them? As I stated, in the past my doctor would have done the procedure.
I did consider every possible option, and as i said in the story “My lung disease had progressed to the point where I didn’t have enough oxygen to keep me alive. The fetus would be dead. The only question was whether it would take me with it. Still, I anguished about the decision, waiting for a miracle. Waiting, and risking my own life for each day I delayed. Praying for God to intercede and take the burden from me. As each day passed, I knew that the fetus was slowly dying. I could do nothing to save it. My body was barely keeping me alive. Finally, I could postpone it no longer.”
And just for general info – that trip to the clinic – with all those hateful women pouncing on me and calling me names – changed me from pro-life to pro-choice. It is your tactics, and not your right to you opinion that I find abhorent. As for pictures, did you get Red Queen’s permission to use her picture? Did she agree to be targeted for hate mail form your group? How exactly to you preach sanctity of life when you attack without mercy.
Ken, I just tune out when men lecture me on losing weight after pregnancy, menstrual cramps, and terminatating a pregnancy. You decide if about prostate cancer. Leave my body to me. I don’t want a man deciding for me and I damn sure don’t want the government deciding if and when I give birth.
xalisae
don’t call me sweetheart. i’m older than your granny.
Never got involved in this stuff till now. I am new kid on this block. But I’m tired of my faith being dragged through the mud and used by corporate bullies. I’m tired of our country being run by “the Family” and their cronies who have as much in common with Christ as Charlie Manson and his “family.” http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secret-Fundamentalism-Heart-American/dp/0060559799
BTW Jill seems to be scared of me and blocks my posts on her other posts.
So – Soujourners – for people of faith who wish to find answers. http://www.sojo.net
Hey this is Sharon
Jill seems to be scared of me and blocks my posts
No misrepresentation – facts noted in the story: “there were 13 of us that day” I told you of a few that haunt my memory. It seems they haunt yours as well and all this hysteria does nothing to prevent the situation that sent them to the abortion clinic to begin with. The others I didn’t get to know them or their stories.
xalisae
Well make up your mind. Last time you thought I should just die. Now you say the rules don’t apply to me. AGAIN and again you are WRONG. I am exactly the kind of woman who would be denied necessary medical care if you manage to outlaw pregnancy termination.
None of the doctors in my little town would perform the procedure. They had received death threats and no one wants to be targeted by the Pro-forced childbirth advocates. After the murder of Dr. Tiller can you blame them? As I stated, in the past my doctor would have done the procedure.
I did consider every possible option, and as i said in the story “My lung disease had progressed to the point where I didn’t have enough oxygen to keep me alive. The fetus would be dead. The only question was whether it would take me with it. Still, I anguished about the decision, waiting for a miracle. Waiting, and risking my own life for each day I delayed. Praying for God to intercede and take the burden from me. As each day passed, I knew that the fetus was slowly dying. I could do nothing to save it. My body was barely keeping me alive. Finally, I could postpone it no longer.”
And just for general info – that trip to the clinic – with all those hateful women pouncing on me and calling me names – changed me from pro-life to pro-choice. It is your tactics, and not your right to you opinion that I find abhorent. As for pictures, did you get Red Queen’s permission to use her picture? Did she agree to be targeted for hate mail form your group? How exactly to you preach sanctity of life when you attack without mercy.
Ken, I just tune out when men lecture me on losing weight after pregnancy, menstrual cramps, and terminatating a pregnancy. You decide if about prostate cancer. Leave my body to me. I don’t want a man deciding for me and I damn sure don’t want the government deciding if and when I give birth.
xalisae
don’t call me sweetheart. i’m older than your granny.
Never got involved in this stuff till now. I am new kid on this block. But I’m tired of my faith being dragged through the mud and used by corporate bullies. I’m tired of our country being run by “the Family” and their cronies who have as much in common with Christ as Charlie Manson and his “family.” http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secret-Fundamentalism-Heart-American/dp/0060559799
Soujourners – for people of faith who wish to find answers. http://www.sojo.net
A blast from the past!!!
Hey Hooves!! I laughed out loud when you mentioned Texas Red! Thanks, I needed that.
My pleasure Carla…..how could I forget my favorite nemesis?! (TR–not you!)
Posted by: sharon at August 19, 2009 9:57 AM
a nice piece of fiction that occupied a lot of people for a long time
Nevertheless it did bring out some really interesting posts by Bobby, Bethany, YCW and others.
Same old proabort logic once again: hard cases for a law that is used mostly for “convenience”.
You don’t need a lung transplant Sharon, you need a double transplant: a new brain and a heart.
Prolifer L, that had occurred to me as well. Out of 13 people, one had a disabled fetus, one was raped, one was a victim of incest, and one’s life was in jeopardy? And then they all talked to each other and told their stories, because they’d all shown up as soon as the place opened, even though they’d be having their babies killed at different times?
I think, Sharon, if your story is true, no pro-lifer would deny you the right to an abortion. Everyone agrees that abortion should be a choice if it comes down to the choice between mom’s life or the baby’s. But these very rare cases are cases when medical science has failed. If it were me I would not have done it, but that’s my choice, not one I could make for someone else. (And something tells me that a few more options would present themselves in a lot of cases after you refuse the “treatment” of abortion).
Why is it that you can be offended by us saying that abortion is wrong, but I have no right to be offended when you call my sons and daughters useless hunks of tissue that were never alive?
Quickening was used as the point of beginning of life before science allowed us to see in the womb. Anyone with any sort of knowledge about fetal development nowadays knows that quickening is not a good point for determining life. The time of quickening changes with the mother’s weight, with whether the pregnancy is a first pregnancy or a subsequent pregnancy, and with the position of the placenta. One woman might quicken at 15 weeks, but another might not until 22. Does that mean when both fetal children are 17 weeks, one is alive or ensouled and the other is not? Ridiculous. A better argument would be that it happens not when the mother feels movement, but when the fetal child begins moving–but that would push it too early for your comfort, I’m sure. Or, you could actually use the Bible for your arguments, instead of a scholar who (however Godly) did not have access to the science we do today. How about “the life is in the blood”–the heartbeat, starting less than a month after conception, would be a logical conclusion. Or there is David’s lament that he was “sinful from the time his mother conceived” him–how can something which is not alive and have no soul have a sin nature? What about John the Baptist, before his birth, reacting through God’s presence to the prenatal Jesus, likely before Mary had felt quickening? Much more common are statements from earlier Christian thinkers speaking out against birth control because they did not know when ensoulment occurred than those saying abortion was okay because they did not know when ensoulment occurred. (Which I doubt St. Augustine was saying.) When we do not know, we err on the side of life. You don’t shoot a gun into a dark room because you don’t know whether a child or a bear is inside.
But you don’t really believe what you say about quickening or viability. Those are excuses, excuses that work for you, but they don’t work for everyone, and you still have no problem with an abortion at 7 or 8 months if someone else’s excuse is good enough. You assign no value to my son, who at 22 weeks has most definitely quickened, and you will have no more respect for him as he reaches the cusp of viability. You probably still would not respect him when he was born if there were a good excuse–if he were disabled, it would be okay to not feed him and let him die. If he were born in an abortion clinic, there would be no reason to try and save his life.
I don’t want to take away anyone’s rights. On the contrary, I am fighting for the rights of my children. Both my children who were never born and never will be, and this child who, God willing, will be born, and any children God may grant me who have yet to be conceived. And I am fighting for the rights of children who were never born because their mothers did not recognize their right to exist. And I am fighting for children who someday, praise God, will be born because it will be illegal to kill them and they will have a right to life. Yes, perhaps I have some vitriol–against people who say that my children have no rights, are not people, did not deserve better than flushing. Wouldn’t you be angry if someone said that about your children? And any child not wanted by his or her parents, I would gladly love that child as my own as well–so I also mourn those children I might have had, in a different world. If their mothers and fathers will not love them, I will. And that is what Jesus would do–love those no one else was bothering to love. Both born and unborn. He said “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Getting an elective abortion is not being like Jesus. Advocating for the killing of the defenseless is not being like Jesus. Sharon, when you meet Christ, you will tell Him that you advocated killing children in His name, and you worked against those who wanted them to have rights in His name. He will tell you, “Away from me, you evildoer! I never knew you.” And He will cry over the children in whom you saw no value.
Please continue to learn more about God and His character. Pray for wisdom. You are wrong. He can set you free.
YCW you make some good points. There are now numerous situations of women who have carried their baby to term or close enough to term for the baby to survive and the mother to undergo treatment for her illness.
And sometimes carrying a child to term has had unknown benefits to the mother, even though she be very ill.
I am thinking of a specific case I read of where a young mother deathly ill with TB decided not to abort.
The growing baby closed a huge cavity in her abdomen that was caused by the TB bacteria. This saved her life and cured her TB. Who knew?!!
Doctors have now determined that it is safe for a woman to undergo chemo after the first trimester without any harm to the unborn baby. So women no longer have to abort when receiving a cancer diagnosis.
The super-rationalization done by people such as Sharon is quite incredible and sad. I’ve no doubt that the circumstances of some women are less than ideal for a pregnancy. But if we are true feminists, we know that women are not a bunch of pansies. It takes some measure of courage to have a baby even in the best of circumstances.
It’s difficult to make an “informed” decision when you are not given all the information you need to make a serious medical decision and when the abortion industry repeated fights laws that would allow for such informed consent.
I think most women KNOW intuitively what is the right thing to do but society offers them what appears to be an easy solution.
Abortion is not the solution. It always leads to the death of a baby.It is harmful to the mother and it hurts men. No one wins in an abortion.
Sharon—are you serious? Quickening is when the MOTHER first FEELS HER BABY. The baby has been moving for weeks and weeks before that moment. You do know we have modern technology now that allows you to see the baby in the womb moving? My son was moving on ultrasound weeks before I ever first felt him.
In the Bible Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant with John the Baptist. Mary had JUST CONCEIVED CHRIST!!!! When Mary walked into Elizabeth’s presence John the Baptist leaped in his mother’s womb. First, it shows this FETUS was spiritually aware. Second, it shows that CHRIST WAS PRESENT IN MARY…although she was probably only a week or two pregnant. God had already touched the embryo Christ even though Christ had not quickened yet.
So to prevent child abuse you think we should kill children in the womb? huh? Thats like saying to prevent people from dying from cancer we should just shoot cancer patients in the head…at least they won’t die from the cancer! I’ve heard your arguments before from many in the abortion crowd and they have never made any sense.
Jesus loved fallen women. correction. Jesus LOVES fallen PEOPLE. And He came and died on the cross to save us from being fallen people. He wants to save you (and me) from SIN and from the HEARTACHE of sin! Jesus doesn’t want any to make sinful decisions and then to suffer because of it. He doesn’t want us to spend an eternity in hell cut off from Him. He offers forgiveness and eternal life to all who ask.
That being said, Jesus also said Christians are to be the salt of the earth, the light on the hill etc…we are to be judges. Not of sinners because I am just as evil as anyone but we are to speak out and JUDGE SIN. We are NOT to sit back and not say anything as sin goes on and on. So stop taking scripture out of context.
I’ve read so many stories about how prolifers don’t care about children after they’re born, etc. Well, I’m an adoptive mom. My adoptive son is 18 and has a 19 year old pregnant girlfriend. The girl wanted an abortion but I told her I would help her as much as I could. She is Caucasian and my son is black and when her family found out they disowned her. So now she is living with me.
It’s not a good situation. The girl is the child of alcoholics and has some, well, issues. My son foolishly dropped out of school. I told her if she doesn’t have a place to go after the baby is born, she can still stay with me. It is very hard dealing with this situation, especially in terms of finances. I am just taking it day by day.
I’m not trying to make myself out to be a martyr, but the point is, many of us DO care about both the pregnant woman AND her child, and I am tired of us being maligned as “anti-choice fanatics” who just want to harrass and hurt women and make them feel terrible. I don’t picket, judge, march, or anything like that — I want to be that voice that says — “if you need help, if you want to have your child, I am here for you.”
I hope your situation works out for the best. It usually does, and you should be proud that you’re able to help a young couple through such a hard time. I wish someone like you would’ve been there for my then boyfriend/now husband and I when we were just starting out and scared to death of a new baby. As hard as it can be at times like this, it’s still a time for congratulations, so, congrats…And even though this is a bit of a delay, keep in mind it’s never too late for your son’s education, but people can only bear children for so long. ;)
I wish the best for you and your growing family.
My last three posts have been blocked …
About Christ and John the Baptist – Christ was never a fetus. He was divinely conceived. At six months – John knew him in the womb. At six months my darling daughter decided on what we’d have for dinner and how much sleep I’d get. (BTW she loved spicy food in the womb)
About embryos having feelings – tomatoes scream when you slice them and eggs have heart attacks. These are facts that my vegetarian friends don’t like to admit. Have a nice Omelet.
My husband’s grandmother was arrested for going door to door and passing out condoms. Her husband was a doctor and she had seen too many women (who were subject to the desires of their husbands) give birth to a baby a year. They died in childbirth far too often. And yet it was illegal to even give them information about birth control.
I thought this was a blog that was pro life. It is anti information. You wish to keep women barefoot and pregnant and ignorant. Whatever you tell yourself, you targeted a woman for giving information. That’s not only unAmerican, it’s unchristian. God’s not afraid of the facts. Remember – He invented them.
My concerns are these:
1) I want to decide. I do not want the government to tell me that I must continue a pregnancy or that I must terminate one. Once you give the government that right – we become China. To control the population growth, the government could force abortions. Or force low income women to abort babies. I think that the only one who can make those kind of decisions is the woman herself. I trust women to make good decisions if they are given all the information. (Also, not everything that is immoral is illegal – Adultery, Divorce, Gambling,)
2) I seriously doubt that when the woman whose answer and picture you have stolen would give you permission to abuse her like this. Forget the fact that some extreme elements, like Operation Rescue, have actually assassinated people and remain unrepentant and believe that they kill stop murder by killing. You have in essence put this woman in a virtual pillory for public humiliation. You posted her picture and then invited all of your readers to throw stones at her. It is barbaric.
How exactly is this Pro-life? It is just vent your anger. And I hear so much pain here, so much personal regret or disappointment. It seems that to ease your own heartache, you have targeted this woman for vengeance. I don’t think that she has personally wronged any of you. Yet you feel entitled to use her so savagely.
How does this advance your cause? I know it makes you feel very superior but does it win over a single woman to your way of thinking? Or does it make then step back a bit like it did to me? Have you sacrificed the possibility of converting a soul to your need for an emotional vent. You are in a sense, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Besides the fact that this is exactly the type of stone throwing that Jesus warned us about. All this dancing around the “judge the sin” is just a heaping pile of “rationalization.” Like saying the devil made you do it. In your heart you must know that hated never brings anything but more hatred. Remember his humility even in the face of death. When everyone had abandoned and betrayed him. Even then he spoke of forgiveness.
This Sydney is for you.
The scriptures are not your property they are mine too.
Matthew 7 (Do Not Judge)
1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
4Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
find me and facts here – a place to talk. http://mselaineyus.blogspot.com/
I seriously doubt that the woman whose post and picture you have stolen would give you permission to abuse her like this. You have put this woman in a virtual pillory. You posted her picture and then invited all of your readers to throw stones at her. It is barbaric.
How exactly is this Pro-life? It is just an excuse to vent your anger. And I hear so much pain here, so much personal regret or disappointment. It seems that to ease your own heartache, you have targeted this woman for vengeance. I don’t think that she has personally wronged any of you. Yet you feel entitled to use her so savagely.
How does this advance your cause? I know it makes you feel very superior but does it win over a single woman to your way of thinking? Or does it make then step back a bit like it did to me? Have you sacrificed the possibility of converting a soul to your need for a public hanging? You are in a sense, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
This Sydney is for you.
This is exactly the type of stone throwing that Jesus warned us about. Saying you are just going to “judge the sin” is just a heaping pile of “rationalization.” You contradict yourself. In your heart you must know that hated never brings anything but more hatred. Remember his humility even in the face of death. When everyone had abandoned and betrayed him. Even then he spoke of forgiveness.
And by the way Sydney – the scriptures are not your property they are mine too.
Matthew 7 (Do Not Judge)
1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
4Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
If anyone wants to step away from the lunatic fringe – find me here.
http://mselaineyus.blogspot.com/
Your last three posts were not blocked. Any post with a few links in it goes into spam.
I am wondering if you are friends with a certain poster that is banned? Your comments are now verging on a very familiar yet hysterical ranting.
Yes, abortion is barbaric. Tearing apart babies in the womb is barbaric. Posting a picture and links to a woman that is public domain, is not barbaric.
You have a beef with a certain comment, then call that person out by name and DISCUSS and READ, ASK QUESTIONS and LEARN something. Who are you talking to, specifically??
Christ was a fetus before that, he was a zygote.
None of your posts have been deleted but I will now take the liberty of doing just that if you continue to come here to rant. Oh, and please remember that you are always welcome to leave.
“I am wondering if you are friends with a certain poster that is banned? Your comments are now verging on a very familiar yet hysterical ranting.”
She reminds me of my daughter, Bethany. And if she’s anything like her, then your demonizing her will only harden her heart. You will not only keep her firmly in the pro-choice column but also agnostic. Christ forgave sinners and welcomed them. I doubt that he would tie them to a whipping post as you have done here.
“None of your posts have been deleted but I will now take the liberty of doing just that if you continue to come here to rant. ”
Now that I know who’s running this blog (Jill? Carla? Are you the Carla from the Terry Schiavo incident?) Please at least take down the photo. Please do not target a young woman who could very well be your daughter or mine. This is a dangerous tactic and if she is harmed there will surely be blood on your hands. (Or is there blood already? Did you cheer the man who murdered Dr Tiller?)
I want to end abortion. I also want to end the situations that sends young women to the clinic. Your path will not accomplish that. It is just a political hammer that you can use to demonized people you disagree with, whether it’s a President or a young woman. Your path leads to more death, more grief. By keeping the fight going, by inciting this hatred, you keep your followers armed and ready. A Constitutional ban on abortion is the LAST thing you want. You do not want a solution, you want a never-ending war.
I know you will have to silence me. I’ve seen through your facade. You rely on keeping women ignorant and fearful – just like the men who jailed granny for passing out condoms. Women are just collateral damage in your war on facts.
You did delete several of my posts and the link to my blog. But left the link for the young woman. why?
Sharon,
“You did delete several of my posts and the link to my blog.”
Comments with links get automatically sent to spam and we do not know about them unless someone (the poster) points them out to us and asks us to fish them out of spam for them which I have happily done. Your posts are up now.
This is the second time you have falsely accused us of “censoring” you.
So next time a post doesn’t come through, write a quick post with no links in it letting us know.
“Now that I know who’s running this blog (Jill? Carla?)”
Jill is the one who runs the blog. We (Carla, Carder, Bethany, Chris, Jasper, Bobby) are moderators; we just manage the comments.
Dear Sharon,
I am not Carla Sauer-Iyer. You posted my picture on your blog. I would like you to remove it immediately.
Sharon, please remove the picture of Carla from your blog- she is not the Carla you assume she is, and there is no reason for it to be there.
Your posts really seem to make no sense- you write many copy and pasted quotes and wild, outrageous stories from who knows where, you talk and talk at no one in particular, and you accuse us of censorship when your posts are very obviously open and available for everyone here to read.
What are you really here for? Do you need support? There are many people here who have reached out to you in compassion, who would be willing to help you.
Sharon, 2:51…
Are you not judging the owner of this blog for things you believe are wrong? Remove the mote from your eye, Sharon.
“You will not only keep her firmly in the pro-choice column but also agnostic.”
I’m agnostic/almost 100% certain atheist. I’m also pro-life. What does this have to do with anything?
I’m familiar with the whole “don’t judge other people, because if you do, you’ll be held to the same standards you use to judge.” I’ve also been in a crisis pregnancy situation. I’ve also never had an abortion/had a baby of mine killed. So, I’ll judge as I please all day long.
This blog does not censor people. Anyone. I’ve had my share of disagreements with just about everyone who moderates this blog, and even Jill who runs it. I have NEVER been censored. I’ll tell you were I HAVE been censored though:
Pro-choice YouTube users pages and video comments.
Numerous pro-choice blogs on blogpot and livejournal.
The Anchorage Liberal Examiner by Alexa Dobson
-just to name a few of the more recent instances I can remember.
Nobody’s life will EVER be 100% worry and trouble free. But just because your life is 100% worry and trouble free does not mean you should be allowed by law to kill your child (who, by the way, you’ve been degrading this entire time, as evidenced by our outrage that someone would even suggest that Jesus went through a fetal stage of development just as every other human in the history of the world has done), ever.
Good post, Xalisae!
Thanks, Bethany. These are some wild accusations though! lol
I couldn’t agree more.
Sharon, please remove Carla’s photo from your site? You can leave mine up, that’s fine. It’s fair. I run this blog, I post the photos.
Red Queen proudly posted her photo next to her post. There’s no problem here. She hasn’t emailed me and asked me to remove it. She even posted after I posted (http://is.gd/2vhoL) and didn’t complain about the photo being here. Her “About me” says: “I’m the coolest cat in the litter box with an ego the size of Texas.” She’s not minding this attention, Sharon. You’re projecting.
Thanks in advance for removing Carla from this debate, Sharon. She has nothing to do with any of this. Fight fair, please.
Sharon…I have MANY GIRLFRIENDS who have had abortions! I love each of my friends and never judge THEM for what they did but I do judge WHAT they did.
I also have an immediate family member who is a rapist. I love him but I JUDGE HIS SIN. I condemn rape! I condemn abortion! I condemn any act whereby an innocent person is hurt. There is nothing unchristian about standing up for those who are defenseless. On the contrary I know someday I will stand before God to answer for all the deeds of my life and don’t you think He will ask me why I didn’t speak out on behalf on children being slaughtered. I speak out on behalf of children who are BORN and being abused and slaughtered. I defend all innocent people from being attacked, abused and slaughtered.
Again, Christ admonished Christians to be the salt of the earth. the light on the hill. We are to guide others to HIM. Yelling hateful things to women going into abortion clinics (and I believe you because this happened to one of my friends) will never serve any good purpose. But standing outside a clinic and showing that abortion IS MURDER and that there is ANOTHER WAY is the right thing to do. The Bible instructs you to stand before a person going to slaughter to try and save them…don’t have my Bible right here to find the reference but its in there.
“Christ was never a fetus.”
Blasphemy is not allowed on this blog. What do you think Christ was before he was born? I think it makes absolute sense that he was a zygote, a blastocyst, an embryo, and a fetus, just as he was an infant, a boy, and an adolescent.