Weekend question 8-15/16-09
PBS is asking this poll question:
Are disruptive town hall participants acting unpatriotically?
Of course liberals initiated this spin to intimidate average Americans from displaying anger and rabble rousing in the healthcare debate. Liberal audacity knows no bounds, particularly on this topic. Loud, disruptive, vitriolic dissent has been a liberal staple since the Vietnam War protests. Speaking of the LSD era, here are a couple flashbacks.
Hillary, 2003…
Nancy, 2006…
So what is your response to PBS’s question?
[HT for Pelosi video: Illinois Review]
Aug.15, 2009 7:44 am |
Weekend question |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
In answer to the question, No. I don’t think it is unpatriotic to voice your opinion!! I don’t think it is unpatriotic to be a disruption either. Forgetting your manners? Rude? Yes. People are angry and upset and want to tell their reps about it. Why is that unpatriotic??
Also,
Youtube stops clips at some very unfortunate times but Hil’s clip made my day!! Hilarious.
I don’t think it is unpatriotic to say your part at a town hall meeting. I do think it is unpatriotic to try to prevent others from doing that same thing. I think anyone on either side who tries to “shout down” another person, or who just wants to disrupt the conversation so that it simply can’t take place, is — well, “unpatriotic” wouldn’t be my first choice of words, but discussion is crucial to democracy, so I’ll let that accusation stand, I guess.
If it’s not unpatriotic now, why was it unpatriotic when liberals were doing it during the Bush era? It’s one or the other, unless you do some pretty amazing rationalization.
No doubt Carla, those pics are too funny!
I agree with Alexandra – there’s a need for a civil process, with basic decorum.
However, there are times when disruption is called for – for instance, with Sheila Jackson-Lee taking a phone call while a cancer-surviving constituent is pouring out her sincere viewpoint, or a representative is flat out wrong in terms of stifling discussion, or is playing ignorant with a direct question.
I’ve experienced that with my own Congressman – James Langevin when he held a Town House Meeting in the oldest active town hall in the US. I was directly invited to attend by his office. Yet, when I asked him a direct question, he didn’t answer me. Throughout the meeting he avoided a lot of good direct questions. He’s going to hold 2 more public meetings -one in a police station!
I think most people want to hear good questions, and if they disagree, they can refute and respond, but no one wants to be shut out of having a say. That’s the kind of thing that angers people the most – then they do something stupid to call attention to their viewpoint.
A good public debate requires people to sincerely voice their opinions, but
Voicing one’s opinion was, in part, how and why this country came into being. Now, in a civilized society, these shouldn’t be out of control, but these protestors have every right to speak their minds (whether protesting President Obama or President Bush).
It’s not unpatriotic to voice your anger and frustration. It was widely accepted during the Bush administration (anyone remember Sheehan camping out at Bush’s private residence to get her point across? How about Code Pink?) and Bush even said they have their First Amend rights.
But what we’re seeing right now is a massive groundswell of people getting PISSED at being told to shut up and sit down, or having watched Greta the other night TRY to interview Jackson-Lee but JL wouldn’t shut up herself and during her diatribe, told the American people that the Obama Administration knows better than they (the American citizen)do about what’s good for them health-wise. This insane condescension is making people have high blood pressure because it’s proving that Obama and his followers think the rest of us are too stupid. And we do NOT like to be treated that way!
Yes, decorum, manners and etiquette are all proper and good, but sometimes you have to scream at someone to get them to shut up long enough to LISTEN to what you’re saying. Manners and respect have never seemed to come from the liberal left when it comes to “democratic discussions”. Ad hominem attacks abound nearly immediately and the dismissive attitude of what we’ve seen from Dem’s is what’s pissing alot of us off. The more of these townhalls that take place, the more they prove our point of being incapable of having a honest, true, respectable discussion of ALL the FACTS.
If it’s not unpatriotic now, why was it unpatriotic when liberals were doing it during the Bush era? It’s one or the other, unless you do some pretty amazing rationalization.
Posted by: Human Abstract at August 15, 2009 10:48 AM
Good thing I never said any of those people were unpatriotic. As a matter of fact, I stood up for anti-war protesters against my dad in debate more times than I can count. I didn’t agree with them, but I told him that if they don’t have the right to voice and outwardly stand up for their ideals and beliefs, none of us will. Without really realizing it, I think, those protesters were helping to protect the rights we’re enjoying now as pissed-off conservatives. ;)
In the words of Laura Ingraham “Power to the People!!”
For the first time I am feeling that our fellow Americans are waking up and realising they better get busy for the sake of their childrens future. Life as we know it may change and at least they will know they we fought for them instead of doing nothing. ( Although right now my kids think I am crazy of course)
The shouting match we’re having comes down to two questions that the country is struggling with during this administration:
1) Is each individual human life immeasurably valuable?
2) Does someone else get to decide that question for our lives?
The debate revolves around those two questions.
They are also the same basic questions that are posed for abortion.
Imagine that.
It’s not “unpatriotic” to act like an imbecile at a town hall meeting, but it’s certainly unwise and counterproductive. Conservatives should learn their manners from George Will, not Rush Limbaugh.
“If it’s not unpatriotic now, why was it unpatriotic when liberals were doing it during the Bush era? It’s one or the other, unless you do some pretty amazing rationalization.”
Posted by: Human Abstract at August 15, 2009 10:48 AM
If you are referring specifically to war protestors, it was one thing to protest the war, but another to disrespect the men and women who serve in the armed services.
* * * *
Chris,
The Dems at these town meeting aren’t answering questions because they haven’t read the bills. Most don’t have answers.
As an aside, the CEO of Whole Foods, John Mackey, is proposing his own alternative to ObamaCare (see the WSJ online) in “The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare”.
Read it, Janet!! The Dems are calling for a boycott!! I keep forgetting that there is only one right opinion. Theirs.
Huck,
Yep.
Sheila Jackson Lee certainly acted like an imbecile at the town hall meeting when she answered her cell phone in the middle of someone’s question.
President Obama, The American people put you thre, and We the American people, can put some one else in your place! e
So what is your response to PBS’s question?
My response is that it’s a bad question that doesn’t get at the heart of the matter. Whether one’s method of expressing dissent meets another’s definiton of patriotism is irrelevant and diverts attention from the actions in Washington that prompted the dissent.
The real issue is whether congress acts responsibly when it attempts to pass legislation that makes sweeping changes affecting every American without first having the kind of national debate we’re now having.
The PBS question sidesteps the fact that the Speaker and others in the House tried to pass legislation before the break, making any constituent contact with representatives over the break a moot point. A better question would have asked whether our elected officials have a duty to seek constituent input before voting on legislation of this magnitude.
Dirtdartwife 2PM,
A great point about condescension. Didn’t Chris Matthews, who gets tingles up his leg and Sen. Barbara Boxer make some comment about the “Brooks Brothers” demonstrators?
Apparently “real” Americans don’t dress well or fashionably. Does she expect all Americans to dress like the union thugs Obama called upon?
The same Barbara Boxer who treated Harry Alford, the president and CEO of the National Black
Chamber of Commerce like he was the “colored boy”. That according to Alford, not me.
Alford also referred to her treatment of him as “1945 Mississippi” and “the most vile Jim Crow”.
Speaking of decorum and manners, is speaking on your cell phone while someone is addressing you decorum and good manners?
Human Abstract:
Can you please give an example of a Bush era public official calling anti-war protesters unpatriotic? Or Nazi-like? Or Klan-like? Or paid, manufactured outrage? Or insincere? Or racist?
There is a tremendous difference between private citizens (pundits, news anchors, bloggers, editorial authors, etc) questioning the opposition’s patriotism and government officials questioning the patriotism and sincerity of their constituents. I personally never found anti-war protesters to be unpatriotic, but even if I had, my statements do not carry the national influence of the speaker of the house or senate majority leader.
When our government does evil we have a right and duty to not only speak up but speak up vociferously.
We made the mistake with Roe v. Wade about being civil and having decorum and where did it get us? 50,000,000 dead babies is where it got us.
Tell me what decorum was shown to those children as we decorumites stood by and let them be dismembered, mutilated, and murdered?
Decorum is for wimps when one is battling pure evil.
My vote for tranparent hypocisy of the highest magnitude is the democrat congresman who required photo ID’s for entrance to his town hall meeting and this same congressman had voted against a proposed law to require photo ID’s to vote.
I do not know it is possible to have a negative approval rating but ms Pelosi and her company of democrat clowns are certainly capable of achieving that notorious distinction.
Of course this is all George W. Bushes fault.
Compared to them Bush looks like a genuis and a saint.
yor bro ken
I think you guys are debating the wrong thing. Obamacare is about entrenching medical orthodoxy … This style of medicine is too much like a religion … doctors ARE THE HIGH PRIESTS … and are too often even poor scientists. They fool you into believing that they know 98% of all there is to know.. I’d be very surprised if they knew 3% of medicine.
Try Preventative medicine … you CAN prevednt cancerz, heart attacks, strokes, etc NOW – is it worth the effort?
Agreed, John. Let’s seek HEALTH!!
Posted by: John McDonell at August 16, 2009 10:44 PM
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John, one has to wonder what’s truly going on now with the government, and you’re right the story goes way back to understand a few things. During the 70’s there was advocacy for “eating healthy” which turned out to be carbs oriented – the nation, since following those guidelines has ballooned, and subsequently, Big Pharma has come to the rescue with lots of medications. Now we have this huge backroom deal by the Obama administration with Big Pharma, and nothing has changed.
There’s big money in keeping people sick and victimized. That’s why pregnancy is sold as a sickness, so money can be gleaned from abortion. It plays upon people’s base desires. (Eating unhealthy items is one of those things. )
On a personal note – I was diagnosed with Crohn’s and the doctor put me Prilosec – the cure was worse, my condition got awful. I weaned myself off, changed my diet and lifestyle. The doctor insisted I take Nexiuum. (Patents for Prilosec expired, so the company created a new patented product that treated the same conditions…) I ditched the doctor and drugs, and have had excellent results.
I’d rather spend money on better, healthier food, than to pour dollars into drugs.
2nd story – my mother had a heart attack a few years ago. When she got out of rehab, they had her taking 18 medications. My sister-in-law, who is a highly qualified nurse, worked with her primary physician to reduce that to 3. Without my SIL fighting for her, my mother would still be doped up.
Incompetence? Maybe. But more likely just a mindset to throw pharma at the problem because good diagnosis takes time, and reduces the potential payoff.
This is what happens when morals decay.
Hi Chris, Hi John,
What’s the plan when organic farming, natural remedies, herbs and vitamins become illegal?
Carla – same plan as we have now.
Look up and call upon the name of the Lord. If it gets down to that kind of control – worldwide, then we know the end is here.
So when that happens along with forced vaccinations of H1N1…I will carry on. Come quickly, Jesus.
What’s the plan when organic farming, natural remedies, herbs and vitamins become illegal?
Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 17, 2009 7:24 AM
Really? Illegal? Where’d you read that?
A link from the Facebook page Americans Against Obamacare. When I joined there were 10,000 now up to 17,000 fringe folks.
Hal,
guess you’ve never heard of Codex Alimentarius? Google it, and be afraid – very afraid!
Chris and Carla – a good START!
Back in the 1960’s, Dr. Watson (of Crick/Watson fame) wrote a book that decribed ALL BIOLOGICAL reactions this way: A + B —> X + Y Above the arrow are catalysts … ENZYMES & CO-FAACTORS . And BELOW the arrows, he putt a Greek ‘delta’ sign … for ‘energy’. THIS IS ALSO A CATALYST … and is the most overlooked segment of this equation to this day.
Energy is of many, many types … not just heat!
How this seemoingly trite chemistry works is very profound! For instance both foods & us live seasonally … our climate/energy changes seasonally. So just as a tropical-based plant would not survive an artic winter, why do we eat bananas in winter?
We are tied together by our energy. Our physicality MAY be different, our energy is NOT. When we kill a child via abortion … we kill us all!
“We are tied together by our energy. Our physicality MAY be different, our energy is NOT. When we kill a child via abortion … we kill us all!”
Posted by: John McDonell at August 17, 2009 12:02 PM
This makes sense to me. It reminds me of temperament theory which is said to explain moods, emotions and behaviors of different people based on bodily fluids – There are four types of “humours” that correspond to personality type (sanguine, choleric, melancholic, and phlegmatic). Have you ever been around a phlegmatic personality? The energy level in the room can drop to zero when you’re around them very long. (On the positive side, the phlegmatic personality is compassionate and has many friends.) There are many other temperament theories as well, but I find this one interesting because it dates back to the Greek doctor Hippocrates, around 400 BC.
Posted by: Hal at August 17, 2009 9:03 AM
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Hal – look up H.R. 875 and S.425.
These are being proposed by, who else – Big Farma!
Posted by: HuckFinn at August 15, 2009 9:30 PM
“Conservatives should learn their manners from George Will, not Rush Limbaugh.”
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I have never heard or seen Rush Limbaugh be ‘rude’ to another person in a an interview or as a guest on Letterman or whatever.
I have listened to Limbaugh off and on since he went national on the radio. There have only been a handfull of times when he was blunt with a caller.
Limbaugh is far from perfect, but you are going to have to come up with a better example of a ‘rude’ conservative ‘leader’.
Speaking the ‘truth’ is rude to liberals when they are the ones who are the object of the revelation. If it is a conservative of Christian who is being insulted or slandered then liberals love that.
It’s not fascism if liberals do it.
yor bro ken