This is all the information I can find, posted today…
and the linked photo’s obviously no close-up…
… but if it’s true Chelsea Clinton has become an abortion advocate like her parents, it’s really so sad. What a legacy.
Violations will be deleted and you may be banned.
Threats will be immediately reported to authorities.
Following these rules will make everyone's experience visiting JillStanek.com better.
Our volunteer moderators make prudent judgment calls to provide an open forum to discuss these issues. They reserve the right to remove any comment for any reason. Jill's decisions on such moderations are final.
Go to gravatar.com to create your avatar.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Did you know that today is Human Rights Day? Ay, never see this in the news. :(
But, anyways, celebrate Human Rights Day! Yay!
Fetal rights, anti-genocide works, and improved literacy rates, I say.
It’s sort of sad that people get together to knock back human rights (EMILY’S List, I’m talking to you) on this day. Sadness. :(
They are grooming her to be the next generation of candidates. They cannot let go.
How ironically sad her older half-sibling was killed in an abortion.
I can’t believe anyone born after 1973 could support abortion. I was born in 1980 and I know it is only the fact that my mother was/is pro-life that I survived Roe V Wade. Especially since I was the youngest of a HUGE family (four kids, can you believe such a thing!) and my mother was almost 40 when I came along…so many reasons to abort. And I know all these abortionists talking about how important women are would have had no qualms about ripping off my arms and legs when I was inside my mother. I am now only “important” because I am a woman and can PAY them money to kill my child. When I myself was an unborn child I was nothing to them. I never forget this when dealing with the pro-aborts.
yeah, because population growth totally halted the moment roe v wade was passed. you people are ridiculous. props to chelsea clinton for supporting womens rights and seeing that the issue of abortion is far from black and white.
Ask a pro-abort why they don’t support equal rights, human rights, for the preborn and they’ll answer with some haphazard, “It violates a woman’s right to choose.”
Then stare silently, without a word, until they realize just what it is they just said.
because a developing embryo/fetus can not live outside of a womans body, you are essentially forcing the woman into maternal slavery by making her carry and delivery something that she doesnt want, and may not have been in the position to even prevent (in the cases of rape and incest). a fetus does deserve to have human rights, in the same way that your bone marrow (which contains stem cells capable of development into any kind of tissue) does not deserve human rights. they probably stare silently because preborn is a manipulation of language and not a scientific term.
excuse my mistake, does NOT deserve to have human rights in the same way that your bone marrow does not deserve human rights
MATERNAL SLAVERY? Have you even HAD a baby? Well I have. It is not maternal slavery. I am so FED UP with these nuts who think children are the cunning, crafty, dangerous enemy ready to KILL them in childbirth and make them MATERNAL SLAVES. Was that YOUR intent when you grew in your mother’s womb? Were you out to get her? HUH? Were you? Give me a break already! Thanks for the sexist idea that being a MOTHER is LESS. Thanks for the sexism that the woman’s ability to carry a child is some kind of CURSE. It isn’t! And I am proud of my ability to have conceived a BEAUTIFUL little boy and carry him to term and give birth to him and now to raise him. I refuse to be ashamed of loving motherhood just because some anti-social (and in desperate need of therapy) individuals want to pooh-pooh on it all. And I hope I am pregnant again right now as I type this…can’t wait for some more maternal slavery!
if you dont want a baby, then it is maternal slavery. im not saying that being a mother is “less”, im saying that being FORCED into motherhood is a crime. no one should be forced to go through the psychological trauma of bearing a child they dont want and never intended to have in the first place. maybe you should have read what i said before going on your tirade? i wasnt talking about maternal death rates, or how my own mother felt about having me. its pathetic that you people dont even bother trying to critically think about what you read. you argue only by picking out a word or phrase that you find offensive and holding onto it for dear life without even attempting to understand what was meant by it. no one is talking about being “ashamed” of motherhood. i think you are a little oversensitive, and perhaps in need of some therapy yourself.
Sydney, I was thinking along the same lines. Had Chelsea’s mother been anyone other than Hillary, she would likely have been aborted, yes, as was her half-sib.
what??? that is absurd logic. because every woman except for hillary clinton and the anti-choice people are just itching to abort every embryo that implants inside of them. i cant believe that you, or anyone, could be so delusional as to seriously believe that.
l,
You make a few errors in terms of your developmental biology and medicine. First, preborn is not strictly a scientific term, but preterm is. They mean the same thing.
Second, Dr. Scott Gilbert of Swarhtmore College has written what is arguably the definitive text on Developmental Biology in the field. Consider the following quote from Developmental Biology, 6th Edition:
“Traditional ways of classifying catalog animals according to their adult structure. But, as J. T. Bonner (1965) pointed out, this is a very artificial method, because what we consider an individual is usually just a brief slice of its life cycle. When we consider a dog, for instance, we usually picture an adult. But the dog is a “dog” from the moment of fertilization of a dog egg by a dog sperm. It remains a dog even as a senescent dying hound. Therefore, the dog is actually the entire life cycle of the animal, from fertilization through death.”
Note how Gilbert sets off “dog” in quotation marks to stress the essential identity of the animal at every stage of the life cycle.
Now, if this is true for dogs, it’s true of all vertebrates, including humans. Take the word dog out of the quote and substitute the word “human”. See how it reads. That isn’t pro-life propaganda. That’s hard core science.
But then our very human issues get in the way and we trivialize the momentous and complicate the obvious.
This much is scientifically for certain: Gilbert shows us that identity is fixed at the moment of conception, and that all of life exists on a continuum thereafter. Consider another quote from the same page:
“The life of a new individual is initiated by the fusion of genetic material from the two gametes—the sperm and the egg.”
With science clearly on our side now as opposed to 1973, we are in the stronger position of asserting that human dignity is intrinsic to being, which starts at conception. Especially for secularists who chase God from the equation, the science teaches us that organismal identity starts at conception.
That leaves secularists in the no-win position of defending the repetitive mistake of history: that whole classes of humans can be defined in and out of the human family at whim, based upon personhood status which they define to suit their needs. Specifically I refer to the issues of slavery, genocide against Native Americans, the sterilization of the developmentally disabled, and the Nazi Holocaust which targeted Jews, Catholic Clergy, Gypsies and Homosexuals.
It isn’t ‘just a clump of cells’. Science has spoken powerfully and definitively. You read it here first.
“I can’t believe anyone born after 1973 could support abortion. I was born in 1980 and I know it is only the fact that my mother was/is pro-life that I survived Roe V Wade. ”
Sydney M.,
I am happy your mother chose life.
If one of three women have had an abortion, then one in three adults under the age of forty probably has a sibling they’ll never know unless they meet one day in Heaven.
* * * * *
It’s no surprise that Chelsea Clinton is pro-choice. She may even be the next President of Planned Parenthood if she plays her cards right. Woo hoo.
just because you chose to use the word preborn to substitute for a scientific word does not mean they mean same thing. one is loaded and the other is not. a developing embryo may be human in the sense that any human tissue is human, but, as i said in a previous post, you people grab onto one word or term and argue about it without even considering what is being said. you use scientific texts while at the same time denying the fundamental basis of science, which is critical thinking. It is a clump of cells… of human tissue. Its preposterous to say that a mass of cells without fully developed anything is the same thing as a fully formed human being, even if those cells are made of human tissue. but its all semantics anyway, which you people use as a defense mechanism and a way to avoid understanding or critical thought.
l, if a woman doesn’t want to be a maternal slave then DON’T HAVE SEX, dear.
Why should the unborn baby be executed because YOU selfishly decide after the fact that you don’t want to be a mother.
Get a grip!
wait Chelsea Clinton had a HALF sibling? Did I miss something here?
I’m not surprised that’s she’s pro abortion. After all, she campaigned for her mother’s Presidential Campaign. However, she’s also an only child, so I wonder if she ever got lonely, wishing for a brother or sister?
first of all, many women dont have a choice about whether or not to have sex. 1 out of 4 women in our country will be a victim of sexual violence at some point in their life. secondly, many people engaging in intercourse responsibly take precautions to prevent pregnancy. third, many of those who dont take precautions werent given the tools to make responsible choices as a result of abstinence only sex ed policies (which im sure you support, angel). finally, its not an unborn baby, because that phrase is an oxymoron.
you dont need to get a grip, just an education
l at December, Chelsea Clinton’s father was a womanizer (yeah, he really put the needs of women above his own selfish, sexual needs. What a champion!) but I digress. Bill Clinton impregnated his girlfriend Jennifer Flowers. She then has an abortion so as not to ruin his political career. Hillary didn’t want children but felt she had to have at least ONE to further both she and Bill’s political prospects. She felt if she had one then she could connect with female voters who were mothers and seem less threatening to families (afterall she is a Marxist which can be alarming to families).
Chelsea’s sibling died because he/she’s mother was a bimbo and nothing more than a sex toy to Bill Clinton. Chelsea lived because her mother was Bill’s ally and had political aspiration.
And to respond to your post, I think its a crime to force a child to die against her will.
then what do humans give birth to? Unborn cows? Unborn fish? Unborn dogs? Unborn Cats?
I seem to recall seeing an unborn baby when my sister and sister in law showed their ultrasound pictures. That wasn’t an unborn elephant!
Humans give birth to human babies and before you were born, you were an unborn child. Everyone was. You started out as a tiny embryo and grew into you in the nine months in your mother’s womb.
You didn’t start out as an unborn baby fish and then suddenly become a baby. There’s no “magic” thing that turns you into a baby, you were always a baby, before birth.
also, its selfish to push your black and white ideology on people with complex lives that you (apparently) couldnt possibly understand
no, when you give birth, something is born, and that is a baby. before birth it is a zygote, then an embryo, then a fetus. you were not a baby before birth. it isnt an issue of magic, we are talking about scientific definitions.
but, again, more clinging to a single word without understanding what is being said or what you are even arguing against
l,
I’m a molecular biologist. We in the scientific community have arrived at the truth in the above quote precisely by using the critical thought you mention. When one approaches objective reality, established through the rigors f the scientific method, with an agenda, then one is no longer employing critical thought. By definition, one is in denial. Wanting something to be so does not make it so, no matter how ardent one’s desire.
As to preborn. If it is loaded, it is (pardon the pun) pregnant with meaning arising from the reality of who and what is about to be born. Preterm refers to the term, or period, where development takes place in utero.
“Its preposterous to say that a mass of cells without fully developed anything is the same thing as a fully formed human being, even if those cells are made of human tissue. ”
Again, the problem here is your lack of understanding developmental biology.
A neonate is no more a fully formed woman as a fetus. Again, read carefully Gilbert’s quote. What we consider an individual is in reality just a brief slice of the life cycle. Gilbert is telling us very clearly that the individual exists at EVERY stage of development.
The Zygote is fully human in form and function FOR THAT STAGE OF ITS LIFE CYCLE.
The Blastocyst is fully human in form and function FOR THAT STAGE OF ITS LIFE CYCLE.
The Gastrula is fully human in form and function FOR THAT STAGE OF ITS LIFE CYCLE.
The Fetus is fully human in form and function FOR THAT STAGE OF ITS LIFE CYCLE.
The Neonate is fully human in form and function FOR THAT STAGE OF ITS LIFE CYCLE.
The Infant is fully human in form and function FOR THAT STAGE OF ITS LIFE CYCLE.
The Toddler is fully human in form and function FOR THAT STAGE OF ITS LIFE CYCLE.
Again, that’s NOT pro-life rhetoric. That’s hard core science that pro-choice advocates are desperate to deny and explain away.
l at December, if a woman is raped the chances of her conceiving are almost NONE. You need to educate yourself on rape. I learned this from my lesbian, “women’s studies major”, hard-core pro-abort employee that most men do NOT ejaculate when they rape. There are many reasons for this that I won’t get into (because I don’t remember all of them). Secondly, many men rape with foreign objects and not their genitalia. Can’t get pregnant from a foreign object, sorry.
Even if a man DOES ejaculate in a woman during a rape her body has defense mechanisms that shut down ovulation. Her heightened adrenaline works as a spermicide too–we learned that in my Freshman biology class.
Women are normally fertile only 1 day out of the month anyhow, and sperm can live in the vagina up to 5 days so really, the chance of a woman who WANTS to conceive actually conceiving is small let alone a woman being raped.
No one is saying a baby being born out of rape is the best of circumstances, in fact it downright sucks for mother and child. But the solution is to STOP RAPE not kill the baby! I mean, if it was discovered that my dad was a mass murderer (he has been dead now for 25 years) would it be FAIR that I should be put to death for my father’s crimes? We don’t even put rapists to death and you are proposing that this is what should be done to children who are unfortunate enough to have a rapist for a dad!
” It is a clump of cells… of human tissue. Its preposterous to say that a mass of cells without fully developed anything is the same thing as a fully formed human being, even if those cells are made of human tissue. but its all semantics anyway, which you people use as a defense mechanism and a way to avoid understanding or critical thought.”
Posted by: l at December 10, 2009 4:52 PM
Here’s a simple example of biological development. A farmer plants an acre of corn in the spring for harvesting in late summer. The rows of seeds go in the ground, are watered, fertilized, and begin to sprout and grow. Some mischievous teens go out for a ride on their motor bikes one night and tear up the field, destroying the crop. What was destroyed? Stalks? Pre-corn? No. Corn, right? The developmental age is irrelevant to defining what is lost. Same with a human who is aborted. Whether you want to call it a lump of cells or something else, it is human and a human life is lost when a woman has an abortion.
We have BABY showers, l. we don’t have Fetus showers.
My brother and sister in law are expecting baby #4. my nieces know their mom is having a BABY. In fact my 5 year old niece told me the other day that her mom is “having a baby”.
Fetus is a term in Latin meaning “little one”. So, nice try, but pro lifers know the truth. And we use science. Science shows us the human child before birth.
Look at 3D and 4D ultrasounds.
l at December, you are playing at semantics here. It doesn’t matter WHAT you call the unborn human. You can call it a fetus or a baby, its NAME doesn’t change what it IS.
When my friends lost their son in the fifth month of pregnancy the doctor didn’t say “i’m sorry, your fetus has died.” He said “I’m sorry, your baby has died.” But even if the doctor has said “I’m sorry, but your lulllyballywahoo has died.” it wouldn’t change what happened and what IT WAS that died in her.
When a KKK member calls a black man the n word he does so to try to dehumanize the black man and make him seem less human. So too does the pro-abort crowd calling unborn children “fetus” and “product of conception” to try to dehumanize them. But just like in the case of an angry KKK racist, calling the black man a racial slur doesn’t change what HE IS, a HUMAN BEING. So too, calling an unborn baby any term does not change what the baby IS, a HUMAN BEING.
l said: “a developing embryo may be human in the sense that any human tissue is human…”
***************************
Hi again, “l.” It isn’t human in the sense that any tissue is human. It is a distinct human being with its own DNA unique from the mother’s.
l said: “you use scientific texts while at the same time denying the fundamental basis of science, which is critical thinking. It is a clump of cells… of human tissue.”
*************
You know, I’m thinking it’s requiring much more “critical thinking” on your part to completely disregard the biological fact that a human embryo is much more than a “clump of cells of human tissue.” If we must whip out a dictionary, then here we go…
From the Free (online) Dictionary:
embryo
[em?br?·?]
Etymology: Gk, en, in, bryein, to grow
1 any organism in the earliest stages of development.
2 In humans the stage of prenatal development from the time of fertilization of the ovum (conception) until the end of the eighth week. The period is characterized by rapid growth, differentiation of the major organ systems, and development of the main external features.
An organism is composed of cells. A bone marrow cell, which you referred to earlier, does not have or develop major organ systems.
If you believe in killing living human beings who are yet unborn because you believe a woman has the right to do so (and “might makes right”), then at least be honest about that. But your “scientific” arguments just don’t hold water.
Kel,
Great comment. To which I would add that the bone marrow is mere tiisue, while the embryo is a whole organism intrinsically ordered toward continued organismal development.
Thanks, Gerard. Agreed. And lest we be accused of making up our own definitions:
From dictionary.net:
Organism-2. (Biol.) An organized being; a living body, either vegetable or animal, composed of different organs or parts with functions which are separate, but mutually dependent, and essential to the life of the individual. [1913 Webster]
Don’t fight with L. You can’t change all of the ignorance in the world or its flaws or its bigotry. You can only try and focus on the good in the world and the little things that you can do to make it better yourself and find happiness.
Sydney:
I’m glad that you’re here, though. You’re very warm and very concerned with children’s rights. Your mom is a very strong woman. :)
A few thoughts come to me…….
And the spirit of sin continues, but for a mere short time, before eternal judgment!
God is not mocked!
You reap what you sow!
Repent before your death.
“l” must think that bone barrow has its own unique DNA, as well as its own beating heart (which an embryo has beginning a mere 21 days after conception, before a great many women know they are pregnant, let alone have an abortion). I thought that the “clump of cells/tissue” BS was a thing of the past, since we now have much greater knowledge of what goes on inside the womb from the very beginning of pregnancy – but I guess there are still some people who are too ignorant to know even basic biological facts about human embryonic/fetal development. Ignorance is essential when you love abortion. It’s very ironic when someone who compares an embryo or fetus to bone marrow calls those of us who actually know biology ignorant.
1 at december, I guess, I would be one of those who were forced into maternal slavery. I was in Europe, dating for 4 months. And yes, I DID NOT want to be pregnant and I wanted to end the relationship. My FIL did not talk to my partner for 7months. My MIL just refered to the problem!!! I had no family. More than once, I DID NOT want to be pregnant. The situation was anything but simple.
Yes, I was asked to have an abortion.
The desire of want changed during the pregnancy. 9months later, when he came he was very much wanted. My MIL held him dearly and cried when I left to go back home.
Despite this unwanted pregnancy, my son is a beautiful, kind, lovable, trilingual (French,Spanish,English) little boy who enjoys
learning violin.
To place the value of a human being on WANT is very……. (help me find the word here guys…!)
The citation that stayed with me during my pregnancy was : It is great poverty that a child must die so that you may live as you wish.
Even now, 5 years later, when I hug him, I think of how close he came to have been dead and I cry.
From my experience I realized, how much being pro’choice is not prochoice when you feel that abortion is your ONLY CHOICE.
You need caring people to give you hope and to believe in you and your unborn baby.
Abortion is nothing more than a lie that you have to convince yourself that is true.
Prolifers show what is true and real. It is pro’choicers that must lie and twist words to convince themselves.
I guess “I” doesn’t realize that some of us here are mothers, and have seen ultrasounds of our babies, and have heard the tiny heart beating, and have felt the movements of our growing babies.
******************************************
Keep posting all you want to “I”, but the more you post the more ignorant you sound of even the ‘basic’ FACTS. Do some REAL research, THEN post.
Thank you, Chantal for making the point that just because a baby may not start out being “wanted” very often, as the pregnancy progresses, they end up being so. And anyway..just because the mother/father does not want that baby doesn’t mean he/she is an ‘unwanted’ baby. Believe me, there is always SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE who wants that baby.
That’s right, Pamela!
Ultimately, it was GOD who wanted that baby or else that baby would not have been conceived in the first place!!! :D
Luke 1:41
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
ONCE AGAIN I will present the obvious response to “the case of rape or incest”. Survey hundreds or thousands of women who were impregnated that way and either had abortions or had the baby.
FIND OUT THE REALITY OF RAPE, INCEST AND ABORTION before you leap to the conclusion that abortion is the “merciful” answer!!!!
L., I’m excited for you, because I can tell you’ve never taken any sort of course in biology or human development. Oh, the wonders that await you when you find out that human embryos are, scientifically, human beings, and that we weren’t actually brought here by the stork.
Many issues have shades of gray; others are black-and-white. THIS issue IS black-and-white — because DEATH is black-and-white.
Thanks so much for your nice words Vannah! That made me feel all warm!
Chantal–what an amazing story! Thankyou for sharing it.
It IS true that many kids start out being unwanted but that changes when they are born. I posted before on another story about my friend whose mom made her abort at 19 and then who went on in her 20’s to get pregnant again and had her baby girl despite the pressures of her family pushing for another abortion. That little girl was NOT wanted when everyone first found out about her. Her mother was distraught and terrified, the father was ambivalent, and the grandmother was pushy and angry. When that little baby girl was born her grandmother and mother held her with tears streaming down their faces and cried thinking how they “almost threw her away!” Those were their exact words and I was visiting my friend in her hospital room and witnessed this scene and it will ALWAYS stick with me. It was one of my greatest “pro-life” moments to think this baby was scheduled to die in Planned Parenthood on June 22 and now here she was safe and warm in her mother’s arms as snow fell outside the window. It was magical! Her wantedness or unwantedness did not change her humanity…as you can see humanity is fickle. Thank God my worth is not dependent on others “wanting” me. As a wife I can say there are moments I don’t “want” my husband. Has he then lost all worth as a human life? Can I then take a frying pan to the back of his head?
Good post Sydney M. and fellow prolifers. The culture of death has brought all kinds of lies into our world, thank you for exposing the lies about “wanted babies” being the only ones deserving to live because their mother’s “want” them, the dehumanization of human pre-born and A.A. slaves in our country and many other “lies”.
1, you are a cliche, a pro-abort, pro-death has-been…a dinosaur feminist who believed the lie that children are a burden, a clump of cells, non-sensient mass of tissue, parasites, a choice, etc. Yours is the very definition of a tragic life, someone who has based their whole life on a lie. What a waste.
Really, I just wish you pro-death, pro-baby killing maniacs would just get it or simply dissappear. It’s so tiring to try to convince your type that you’re simply wrong especially when everything in the Universe declares it loud and strong, implicitly, explicity. You and all like you are without excuse and will spend eternity trying to figure out why you screwed yourself.
Please just go away.
“if you dont want a baby, then it is maternal slavery. im not saying that being a mother is “less”, im saying that being FORCED into motherhood is a crime.”
Yes, drats to those darn baby invaders the world over, just sneaking their way into uteri and invading poor, unsuspecting women’s minds with their terrible superpowers of control! For shame at them! It’s not as though they are placed there through no will of their own by participants in an action which is well-known to cause them to be there or anything…
(By the way, you might want to revise that bit of your post, because you said “baby” instead of “clump of cells”, “tissue”, or whatever other dehumanizing euphemism you’d prefer.)
Ken’s paraphrase of the ‘book’.
“It will be difficult [but not impossible] for an adult to deviate from the behavior his/her parents modeled for her/him when she/he was a child.”
Prov 22:6
Life is not fair, but nothing is impossible for GOD.
Pray for Chelsea, she has had the disadvantage of growing up in a dysfunctional family and the notion of ‘right and wrong’ are alien concepts to her, not to mention growing up in a fish bowl envrironment like the White House.
Chelsea’s ‘normal’ setting is quite different than most folks.
yor bro ken
Posted by: l at December 10, 2009 5:08 PM
“no, when you give birth, something is born, and that is a baby. before birth it is a zygote, then an embryo, then a fetus. you were not a baby before birth. it isnt an issue of magic, we are talking about scientific definitions.
but, again, more clinging to a single word without understanding what is being said or what you are even arguing against.”
——————————————————-
l
Are you smarter than a fifth grader?
We shall see.
When your mother was pregnant with you what species of embryo/fetus was resident in her uterus?
[Hint, not feline, canine, bovine, equine.]
yor bro ken
X:
I love your post. ^.^
A pregnant woman is already a mother, that is why over 80% of women regret their abortions….that is not spin, that is a fact.
ok kbhvac. learn how to spell. im not saying that the developing embryo is forcing the mother to do anything. its really sad that you cant see the forest for the trees and that you devote your lives to opposing something that is not going to change instead of actually fighting to do good (ie working against poverty, institutionalized racism, etc) things that might reduce the number of abortions. oh wait, you believe that all sex is for conception and dont actually care about the people whose uteruses you want to control. i really feel bad for all of you sad pathetically delusional people.
abortion is nothing more than a lie? actually its a lot more than that as it is a fully legal medical procedure. im in medical school and i honestly wish that i felt confident enough to be a surgeon so that i could provide desperate women (who, contrary to your twisted propaganda, rarely regret their abortions) the services that you so desperately want to deny them.
way to personally attack a stranger instead of making any valid arguments to prove your points.
also, i wouldnt go consulting my 5 year old niece for scientific terms. would you go to her for a breast exam too? or how about a colonoscopy?
wikipedia — Biological parents consist of the male who sired the child and the female who gave birth to the child.
websters dictionary —
Main Entry: 1moth·er
Pronunciation: \?m?-th?r\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English moder, from Old English m?dor; akin to Old High German muoter mother, Latin mater, Greek m?t?r, Sanskrit m?tr?
Date: before 12th century
a female parent
hence you become a mother once your child is born. meaning it IS spin to say someone who is pregnant is a mother, unless the pregnant woman already has children.
What about a surrogate carrying another woman’s child who births it for her?
moth·er1 (mr) KEY
NOUN:
A woman who conceives, gives birth to, or raises and nurtures a child.
American Heritage had that to say about your post L.
The greater point is who cares? A fetus is a person, just like every other human being, regardless of mental capacity. In addition, a fetus has the right to be sheltered and provided food and water at the temporary and partial sacrifice of an appropriate caregiver’s rights, just like every infant and invalid. Finally, the conflict of bodily integrity between the fetus and mother is best resolved in a delayed operation, which saves boths lives, versus a more immediate operation, which necessarily takes one of the lives.
Its simple really.
“A person is a person, no matter how small.” The pro-life culture is growing and maturing within the arts community – the is the key to changing our culture to love life more than death. http://aweband.com/lyrics/curse-of-blood
Actually, I think Chelsea is starting to out-pace her parents in supporting abortion rights. You won’t see Hillary at a pro-choice or Planned Parenthood rally anytime soon. When you become a Secretary of State, you essentially become a conservative military official. Meanwhile, Chelsea has decided to pursue a Masters Degree in Public Health from Columbia University. Since family planning and abortion are public health issues, it is excellent to see Chelsea getting more involved and finding her own voice in this very important issue.
Believe it or not, Bill Clinton was a stronger supporter of abortion rights than Obama. It was Bill Clinton who lobbied for and signed The Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act, the last federal law related to abortion to be passed. After the murder of Dr. Tiller, NAF and supporters like me lobbied Congress and Obama to consider making the harassment and murder of providers a federal crime. We were met with silence.
And like l, I have to respond to comments like this:
Hillary didn’t want children but felt she had to have at least ONE to further both she and Bill’s political prospects. She felt if she had one then she could connect with female voters who were mothers and seem less threatening to families (afterall she is a Marxist which can be alarming to families).
That’s a really hateful thing to say. So Chelsea only exists to get her mom and dad elected? What nonsense. Chelsea was planned and wanted from day one. Where’s your evidence to the contrary? You just assume the Clinton’s are evil. Well be sure to think fondly of 1993-2000, because that’s the last economic great expansion we’ll ever see.
Chelsea’s parents showed her off now and then, but never paraded her around when she was little, say, like Sarah Palin showing-off Trig at the RNC.
I can’t believe anyone born after 1973 could support abortion.
Well, you have a point there. The girls becoming sexually active today were born in the early 1990s. They have no idea what was required to obtain an abortion between 1945 and 1973. They simply haven’t read the accounts of older women or thought of a country where abortion is criminalized. But if they do educate themselves, you’ll be surprised that a lot become supporters. The best abortion providers in the country are all women now, and we need women born after 1973 to become doctors. And most of them also become mothers, just like most of their patients. Fancy that.
Ask a pro-abort why they don’t support equal rights, human rights, for the preborn and they’ll answer with some haphazard, “It violates a woman’s right to choose.”
The better answer is this, IMO. We don’t support rights for fetuses because the rights of the woman weigh more. The fetus can grow and develop to become a newborn, which then has equal rights under the law. But under no circumstances should a fetus have equal or more rights than the woman carrying it. Period. We will not stand for such a twisting of human rights.
Supporting human rights means supporting the post-born. Arguing that fetuses have human rights is a twisting of the definition, and ends-up violating the rights of women. Therefore, pro-aborts are the human rights supporters in this issue.
I read a biography on Hillary Clinton written by a man who was at the White House during the Clinton years and personally observed the first couple. Don’t ask me who the author was, I don’t know. I read this book over two years ago. Anyhow, this author seemed to have more respect for Bill and none for Hillary. He was the one who said Hillary really had a distaste for motherhood but felt she had to have at least one for political credibility. Bill actually wanted lots of kids but Hillary would only have one. So thats why I said that.
All of our economic woes can be traced back to Carter. He signed the Community Reinvestment Act which forced banks to lower their standards for loans so people who had no business getting a mortgage (cause they could never pay it back) got approved.
Bill Clinton then added to that act and further lowered the standards and put pressure on the banks. Franklin Raines who was a member of the Clinton Administration was put in charge of Fannie Mae by Bill Clinton. Raines falsified records at Fannie Mae to hide failing loans bought by them and thus collected $90 million in undeserved bonuses in five years!!!!
Janet Reno threatened legal action against financial institutions to persuade them to keep lowering their standards for loans.
Senator Chris Dodd fought George W. Bush when the Bush administration tried to get to the bottom of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac’s finances and stop the corruption. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae in turn gave money to Dodd’s political campaign.
Barney Frank, head of the House’s Banking Committee also fought Bush and denied the corruption at Mac and Mae.
And good ole Barack Obama. When he was still a lawyer he filed lawsuits on behalf of ACORN to force banks to give loans to people who could not pay them back. And Obama, as a senator, also wrangled with Bush to continue the bad loans being lapped up by Mae and Mac. And it all combusted into the economic turmoil we have now. Yeah, THANKS DEMOCRATS! And those poor people who had no business getting houses in the first place are now having their homes forclosed on and have lost tons of money so they are in a worse position than before the Democrats “helped” them.
IT WAS SOCIALISM (Democrats) that caused the collapse of our economy NOT CAPITALISM (repubs)
And no, I am not a rich homeowner. I do not own my own house yet. My husband and I will hopefully one day buy, but we prefer to do it without the help of Democrats. If we let them interfere we could end up in a cardboard box in an alley somewhere.
You’re blaming the financial crisis on poor people. it was the bankers and their radioactive derivative products that got us into this mess. It wasn’t Democrats encouraging home loans to dark-skinned people. It was banks being pressured by big financial firms like my own Lehman Brothers to increase the number of mortgages lent out. They knew by increasing the number of loans, they would increase the leverage and profits for themselves and the big investment banks.
I do blame Clinton for helping to repeal Glass-Steagall, which was the ‘chinese wall’ between investment banking and equities that prevented financial meltdowns.
It was unchecked capitalism that caused the collapse of our economy. And the UK, which has the most American-like form of capitalism, is headed down the same path.
We could go back before 1977. A key year for the economic decline of the USA is 1973. That’s the year that wages began to lag behind American worker productivity. Once paychecks stopped growing, the middle class in this country became threatened.
References:
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=dont_blame_the_community_reinvestment_act
http://mediamatters.org/research/200809300012
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5303590.stm
Who is the racist, huh Dhalgren? I never mentioned dark skinned people. Funny how you ASSUMED it was blacks who didn’t deserve loans.
PULEASE. There were a whole lotta white people who got greedy for houses they COULDN’T AFFORD and then defaulted on their loans. And the banks would never have approved them for the loans if it wasn’t for the pressure put on them by Carter, Clinton, Reno, Frank etc… Its the curse of our “entitlement” society. I am ENTITLED to try and work to achieve the means to buy a house but I am not ENTITLED to a job or a house. Its called, life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness…the PURSUIT of it, not the guarantee you’re gonna get it.
Middle class in this country is threatened by the socialist/communist/marxist philosophies of the left. In communist countries 1% of people (the communist elite who set up the system) are rich and 99% are living in poverty. The average Cuban worker makes THIRTY DOLLARS a MONTH while the average American makes $4,000 a month. YEAH GO COMMUNISM! GO SOCIALISM!
Its a real swell idea but guess what Dhalgren? ITS BEEN TRIED BEFORE. IT DOESN’T WORK!!!!!!
Sydney M.,
“In communist countries 1% of people (the communist elite who set up the system) are rich and 99% are living in poverty.”
This is the connection between abortion, euthanasia, birth control, environmentalism, and the marxist orientation of the left. It’s all about dominance and control for these people. They wish to be the lords and masters over all. No small wonder that the same Democrat Party defended slavery to the point of civil war. The same Democrat party has supported the failed Great Society programs PRECISELY because they have failed and keep whole swaths of the population in a perpetually weakened and dependent state. CONTROL is the buzzword.
please stop using dr. seuss quotes to support your belief that fetus = fully formed human being. its just wrong and it makes you sound like you really dont understand the issues you are trying to argue about.
also, the democrats are such “socialists” that they basically put goldman sachs and jp morgan in charge of the treasury. neither party is socialist. both are pathetically manipulated by the big capitalist powers. in socialism the people have control, which is exactly the opposite of what either party wants.
please pull your head out of horton hears a who and do some actual research.
also, dahlgren, i appreciate your elegant response to the comment on human rights and abortion. its so true.