Weekend question 1-30/31-10
Two questions:
Do you think CBS will cave to pro-abort pressure and reject Focus on the Family’s ad featuring Tim and Pam Tebow or stand strong for another week and air it during the February 7 Super Bowl?
and
Which advocacy group is the ultimate winner of this controversy, pro-lifers or pro-aborts?
Here’s backdrop if you need it, first a report by Fox’s Shannon Bream and then a debate between Bill O’Reilly and Jehmu Greene of the Women’s Media Center…
CBS will air the Tebow spot; it is all about the ad dollars, not the issues. Winners? Those who support pro-life causes. Exercising their rights to pay for the right to express their opinion, something pro-abortion groups have done for decades.
All this publicity is good for the pro life movement. It shows the pro abortion advocates to be intolerant of anyone who does not bow at the altar of abortion on demand and that the only choice they celebrate it the choice to abort. It shows them on the ropes. They are running scared.
They will air it and so many more people will WANT to see it because of the hullabaloo.
Proaborts only believe in one choice. Abortion.
I think they’ll air it. Because of the controversy, even the CBS news is covering it and saying it will air, there are many more people aware to watch for it and will watch for it.
If the ladies of NOW check their TV remote controls they will discover they have “power”, “channel”, and “mute”.
This makes the choice of listening/not listening to this ad very simple.
Since they expound on the wisdom of women in making their own life decisions, then certainly we have the capacity to use the remote control as we see fit.
Actually CBS has offered to sell an ad to the feminists so they can also pay to peddle their point of view. They have not come forth.
xppc,
Exactly. They have the same right to buy ad time and give their point of view. Were PL or conservative people to object to this, the liberals and NOW would howl like banshees about the importance of tolerance and free speech.
What are these people so afraid of? What are ads but someone promoting a viewpoint be it in support of a certain product or political opinion.
When the abortionist pigs don’t get their way, they snort and snort until they do, but this time, God fearing, God loving pro-life Americans get to have a voice! So keep on snorting, because you’ve lost this one! The pro-lifers have their turn now! RJ
I love that the pro-abortion groups have actually created more interest in this ad than would have ever been there otherwise.
They have actually been very effective in promoting the video, quite the opposite of what they would like to have achieved by their protests!
I think it will air!
I also love the fact that more and more people have to ask themselves “WHY” the “pro-choice” people are so afraid of this video. The answer is so very clear. They only support one choice- abortion.
There is no other explanation.
Bethany hit it right on the head – FotFamily could pull the ad now and it would still be a huge success from the publicity.
Winners? CBS first and foremost. What is it – $3 million? I’m sure it’s a good PR thing and will get people thinking, but not sure how many women who were going to drive to an abortion clinic will now think twice because they might be carrying the next Tim Tebow.
What’s the deal with the gay dating website ad rejected though – have seen a little bit about it this morning, and it seems in part to do with financial reasons (maybe the offer was less money?) – but that will be the debate point I’m guessing.
I love how O’Reilly kept asking her if she has SEEN the ad??? That’s a no.
Ex GOP
What I hope and pray is that yes people will start thinking!! And talking and realizing that all life is precious. If women who are abortion minded see the ad and think twice that is good, no?
89 babies have been saved by watching the movie Bella…you never know.
Carla – can you put a link where I can watch the ad?
If you can, then I agree with O’Reilly taking that stance.
If you can’t, and the ad isn’t out there to view, than what are ANY of us to do on anything that has never been released?
I haven’t been able to find the ad out there, but only searched for about 20 seconds.
HA HA HA. That Jehmu Greene COULD NOT defend her position! She couldn’t even articulate one argument against the ad. She tried to duck questions by reciting pro-choice mantras and slogans in a monotone voice. She knows she IS offended (as are all pro-aborts) that Tim’s mom gave birth to her son and didn’t have Tim ripped out of her womb in pieces.
Lets be honest, Jehmu. Thats what you really wanted. You wish Tim’s mom had aborted him, because the fact that Tim is alive and a wonderful human being flies in the face of your lies about “choice” and abortion.
Jehmu couldn’t even explain how this ad is taking choice away from women. What an idiot.
There was no debate between Bill O’Reilly and Jehmu Greene, only a “debate”. The abortionists only ever have “debates” with supporters of human rights because all their “arguments” are fallacies and are easily refuted and so they have nothing, and I do mean absolutely nothing, to say.
Any movement which continually feeds us for 40 years mind-numbing drivel and doublespeak like “choice”, “choose”, “decisions”, “who decides?”, “women’s health” and “reproductive” “health”, is a weak movement which is empty of ideas, has nothing but fallacies to offer, has no true arguments and has a “position” (if you can call it that) which entirely lacks any philosophical or moral foundation.
I would have much greater respect for opponents of unborn human rights if they would ever try to speak the truth, using plain English, and try to make serious arguments explaining why it is not a crime to kill all human beings in the first nine months of our lives and deprive every one of us of our entire human lifespans.
And if taking away an entire human lifespan is not a crime, just exactly what is?
I’m struck by the fact that an African-American woman is so riled by this ad celebrating life.
Planned Parenthood operates 80% of its clinics in inner-city neighborhoods in an obvious campaign of genocide aimed at minorities in general, and African-Americans in particular.
Comprising 11% of the total population, African-Americans have 37% of the abortions: 18 Million since 1973.
25% of American girls by the age of 19 will contract a sexually transmitted disease. That number soars to 48% for the African-American Community.
70% of African-American children are born out of wedlock.
25% of African-American males, without fathers to guide them will either be dead or in prison by age 30.
And Jehmu Greene spits contempt at Focus on the Family!!
Evidently not all Klan sympathizers are white and wear hoods. Jehmu Greene epitomizes the essence of what it means to be a traitor. She gets a nice salary, gets to go on TV and seem important and be Queen for a Day. All while over a thousand Black babies are slaughtered every day.
Jehmu is the worst of all creatures-a willing dupe in the service of those whose genocide against her people has achieved orders of magnitude more destruction than the Klan’s wildest dreams and aspirations.
Ex,
If Jehmu hasn’t seen it why is she so offended by it? Why is she upset?
I am not offended by real stories about real people and their lives.
Carla, exactly. i’m not even offended when a pro-choicer gets up and says “I had an abortion and I don’t feel bad about it.” Whatever…they’re entitled to feel how they feel and to say what they wanna say.
I just wonder why pro-choicers always trying to take away our free speech when we don’t try to muzzle their voices. Cause put a pro-choice story and a pro-life story side by side and the pro-life story will always win. And they know that.
The reason she is so riled is because Jehmu Greene is not so much Black as she is an abortionist.
People with a particular psychology or mentality tend to be attracted to abortionist activism, something which people such as ourselves who clearly perceive the truth would find repulsive.
They tend to have a psychological compulsion to support abortion violence and they cannot stand certain things. This ad would be one of those things.
They cannot stand the ad, I believe, because it implies that “choosing” not to kill a child is the right “choice” and morally superior, while killing a child would be very much the wrong “choice”.
Noooz! Soon all women and children from troubled backgrounds will think that they can achieve their dreams, too! They’ll forget their places! :O
Claims that the ad is divisive are silly. No one has even seen the ad! The people who are being divisive are the so-called women’s groups that are having an unnecessary tantrum over the free speech rights of Focus on the Family, Pam Tebow, and Tim Tebow.
Vannah, that comment cracked me up.
I don’t think CBS will pull the ad at this point. The Super Bowl is only…one week and one day from now. They’re finalizing things, not debating what to stick in or leave out at this point.
That said, I’m nervous anyway. But I hope they keep it. I frequent an internet forum filled to the brim with liberal pro-aborts. So far, I don’t think any of them have heard about this kerfluffle. I’m certainly not going to tell them. I’m hoping they all watch the Super Bowl, go bonkers, and I’ll get to watch. :)
I have a friend who is pro-choice, and she tells me, “RJ, their are both sides to every story!” We’vn’t even heard the dearn add! The pigs are Mad, all because its a regious group! Keep snorting… you’re loosing! RJ
Carla – she’s probably mad because of the unknown, and because it has a bit of a political tone to it. Let me ask you this. Let’s say that a pro-choice organization ran an ad that basically said this:
18 year old was raped – was able to get an abortion, and then she went on to college and helped start a program for kids with disabilities. End of it has a simple black screen with words like “Keep Choice and option”.
Would you be 100% fine with that being in the super bowl?
I think that’s the issue, and if a person can answer that they would be 100% fine with it, then pro-choice folks should be 100% fine with the Tebow ad.
“Lets be honest, Jehmu. Thats what you really wanted. You wish Tim’s mom had aborted him”
Oh look, Sidney must be a fan of Bill O’Reilly’s because he(?0 echoed just Bill’s question to Ms.Greene. That’s probably one of the most ridulous arguments I’ve heard from the “forced childbirth” crowd. As a staunch pro-choicer, I don’t wish that Tebow’s mother aborted him. Conversely, I don’t wish that anybody should not have had an abortion. We pro-choicers respect a woman’s choice regarding what she wantsto do with her body. We are not “afraid” of the ad. What we are offended by is that CBS is promoting a political aganda from a virulently anti-choice and homophobic organization. If NARAL were doing an ad using the testimony of somebody who was maimed, during an illegal abortion (and yes, they did occur) I’m sure your side would be howling. The ad seems to be making the point that if you trust in Jesus, you don’t need to trust in your doctor and that’s as irresponsible as the cigarette ads that are no longer played on TV. And while the forced childbirth crowd says that this ad reflect choice – it doesn’t. Abortion is still illegal in the Phillipines. (the lack of abortion and contraceptives is why there are armies of street children living on garbage dumps in the Phillipines, not that the Catholic Church cares about that…) Mrs. Tebow was being given an option not available to Phillipino women.
And RJ Sanderfur – Your rhetoric about pro-choice “pigs” really doesn’t reflect well on the ability of your side to make points without the use of ad-hominems. That’s what we used to call cops back in the 60’s. I suppose you would find it approprate to call a pro-choice priest (Episcopolian), minister (UCC, Lutheran, Methodist, Unitarian), or Reformed rabbi a “pig” to their faces. Your rhetoric shows that you, Scott Roeder and all the other domestic terrorists might have something in common. But “pig” – I’ve been called a “lesbian” and a “whore” by your “sidewalk counselor” – but never a “pig.” Nice talk…
I have a friend who is pro-choice, and she tells me, “RJ, their are both sides to every story!”
Posted by: RJ Sandefur at January 30, 2010 11:32 AM
Does your friend enjoy being called a “pig?”
Ex-gop, that would work if we the ones claiming to be “pro-choice”. We’re not. We never claimed that we support both choices. Pro-abortionists do. Therefore, they should be perfectly fine with an ad supporting the other choice.
“All while over a thousand Black babies are slaughtered every day”
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at January 30, 2010 10:28 AM
I love how the anti-aborts are constantly braying about black “babies” being “slaughtered.” That implies that black women are stupid, mindless children who have no will of their own and who are, consequently, being “lured” into having an abortion. Although I am no longer a Catholic, I was taught, in Catholic schools, that everybody has “intellect and free will” so the idea that black women aren’t capable of making their own decision is very offensive if not borderline racist. The irony of this meme is that the white folks who are decrying this “slaughter” are those who would cut programs that aid poor, minority women who do give birth. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t, I guess.
Bethany – okay – so maybe a pro-choice organization should just run a commercial afterwards about a difficult pregnancy where a woman was having many mental issues, was on all sorts of pills, but decided to have the baby. That baby grew up to be Jeffrey Dahmer. I suppose since pro-lifers can’t respect the pro-choice position, that would be the flip side of the commercial – where somebody chose life and it didn’t work out so well.
I think though you can understand why pro-choice groups aren’t pleased – because you said it straight out – for pro-lifers, there can be no acceptance of the other side’s views – so it is quite fitting for a pro choicer to see an ad from an organization that would like to take away that choice, and say that the group is “on the other side”.
Therefore, they should be perfectly fine with an ad supporting the other choice.
Posted by: bethany at January 30, 2010 11:54 AM
How ironic is it that this ad which “support choice” (it doesn’t) is from a group which seeks to deny choice to American women. Focus on the Family also opposes contraception. They would bring us back to the “good old days” when women happily (they didn’t) were barefoot and pregnant. Let’s do the time warp again.
HOw about this:
If B.O.’s biological mom was still alive and it was she and B.O. doing the commercial would these same mindless liberal lasses still be cying foul?
What if B.O. and his mom were advocating the continued de-criminalization of pre-natal homicide and mom said, “My son just as easily turned out to be a terrorist liked Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.”
[The ‘l’ in lasses was not an addition that was the result of fat fingering a key, though the desription would still be completely accurate.]
yor bro ken
Bethany – okay – so maybe a pro-choice organization should just run a commercial afterwards about a difficult pregnancy where a woman was having many mental issues, was on all sorts of pills, but decided to have the baby. That baby grew up to be Jeffrey Dahmer. I suppose since pro-lifers can’t respect the pro-choice position, that would be the flip side of the commercial – where somebody chose life and it didn’t work out so well.
I say, bring it on! I’d love for them to run this ad right bedside the Tebow ad. I wonder which one you think would be more convincing?
@Artemis: The irony of this meme is that the white folks who are decrying this “slaughter” are those who would cut programs that aid poor, minority women who do give birth. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t, I guess.
[citation needed]
You make a lot of generalizations about pro-lifers. Prove them. I dare you.
As to how it’s “white folks” decrying this slaughter, I guess I’m just imagining the African-American pastors who spoke at the March for Life and on MLK Day in Houston. Or Alvida King, who was interviews on EWTN. In fact, I don’t recall anyone even mentioning this statistic who wasn’t Black at the March for Life at all. And don’t come back with some lame, unsupported assertion that “It’s mostly white people!” You don’t know that, you can’t prove it, and just spouting off stuff that you can’t prove isn’t an argument, it’s a temper tantrum.
I think though you can understand why pro-choice groups aren’t pleased – because you said it straight out – for pro-lifers, there can be no acceptance of the other side’s views – so it is quite fitting for a pro choicer to see an ad from an organization that would like to take away that choice, and say that the group is “on the other side”.
Of course they aren’t pleased! What they want is abortion, abortion, abortion. It has nothing to do with “choice”. It is ABORTION they want. They sure aren’t pleased with women who make the CHOICE to keep their babies.
The irony of this meme is that the white folks who are decrying this “slaughter”
Oh you liberals and your fixation on race. I love it. I laughed at this comment just like I laughed at Chris Matthews recent comment that he “forgot Obama was black for an hour tonight”. LOL
By the way, I am Cherokee Indian.
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 11:50 AM
But “pig” – I’ve been called a “lesbian” and a “whore” by your “sidewalk counselor” – but never a “pig.” Nice talk…
——————————————————–
RJ,
I am shocked, SHOCKED.
How dare you.
How insensitive.
How rude.
You should apologize immediately………to all pigs, lesbians and whores everywhere!
yor bro ken
BTW, CBS rejected an ad from a gay dating organization. It was an amusing ad no different from “Go Daddy” or any of the other Super Bowl ads. It was even a “position ad” but an amusing promo for a gay dating service. Interesting…
kbhvac, lol!
We Cherokees have to stick together.
yor bro ken
“What they want is abortion, abortion, abortion. It has nothing to do with “choice”. It is ABORTION they want. They sure aren’t pleased with women who make the CHOICE to keep their babies”
Nice bit of “projection” there, Bethany but it shows that you don’t know jack about the pro-choice movment. Obviously, you don’t believe (because you choose not to believe) that we advocate that women make their own choices. And as pro-choice liberals, we support programs for pregnant teens and poor mothers.
Posted by: Keli Hu at January 30, 2010 12:05 PM
Try reading my comment more carefully. I said the white folks who decry the “slaughter” are the ones who oppose increase in social spending for those social, public programs which support women in need. Minorities are almost totally on board with these types of programs whether they are pro-life or pro-choice. 90% of blacks are democrats and it’s the democrats who make sure that public assistance programs are maintained. It’s the republicans (a mostly white group) who would defund these efforts to help women.
Nice bit of “projection” there, Bethany but it shows that you don’t know jack about the pro-choice movment. Obviously, you don’t believe (because you choose not to believe) that we advocate that women make their own choices. And as pro-choice liberals, we support programs for pregnant teens and poor mothers.
Oh yeah that’s right! I have seen just how well PP and other pro-abortion organizations have accepted CPC’s who help women make another “choice” and also help provide poor women with resources, food, shelter, and clothing. Yep. Extremely supportive!
And I’ve seen with this whole Tim Tebow ad just exactly how approving pro-abortionists are of the other choice.
Words are nice, but actions are what really say it all! :)
Then WHY is Jehmu so upset? Why is she on O’Reilly?
We can read between the lines you know. Abortion is big business and an ad showing a woman choosing life in the face of a poor prenatal diagnosis might
hurt the biz. Can’t have that, now can we??
I second Bethany’s BRING IT ON!! Let’s see the ads that the proaborts are considering airing.
I don’t think the pro-choice folks really need to run ads – public opinion is pretty strong against overturning r v wade, and when it has come to a vote in a couple of states, people aren’t interested in a ban. So CBS gets a few million, Focus gets some publicity, and all goes back to normal the Monday after.
“Oh yeah that’s right! I have seen just how well PP and other pro-abortion organizations have accepted CPC’s who help women make another “choice” and also help provide poor women with resources, food, shelter, and clothing”
That’s not their job. They provide medical care (abortions under 10% of their functions) to women. Women who choose to have babies have resources in the community. Many pro-choice social workers refer their clients to services run by religious groups who work in tandem with public agencies. Abortion is serious matter both psychologically and medically. That you think that we “worship” it is a testimony to the strength of the propaganda pushed by the anti-abortion movement.
I don’t think the pro-choice folks really need to run ads – public opinion is pretty strong against overturning r v wade, and when it has come to a vote in a couple of states, people aren’t interested in a ban. So CBS gets a few million, Focus gets some publicity, and all goes back to normal the Monday after.
The clearly expressed intimidation of pro-abortion groups towards this ad speaks otherwise. I think the public view towards Roe is shifting big time!
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 12:15 PM
“And as pro-choice liberals, we support programs for pregnant teens and poor mothers.”
Arttheeblitzed,
‘pro-choice liberals’ is a both redundant and oxymoronic.
But what else could one expect from dunces and morons.
You preferred and demanded method of support for pregnant teens and poor moms is with someone elses money.
If you had any money of your own that you earned actually producing something of value in the free market, I doubt you voluntarily contributed anything from your own pocket to any program that assisted pregnant women who ‘chose’ not to kill their prenatal child.
You are cold and ruthless female.
You have purged your heart and soul of both your humanity and your femininity.
Is it still an ad-hominen attack if the statement is true?
yor bro ken
That’s not their job. They provide medical care (abortions under 10% of their functions) to women. Women who choose to have babies have resources in the community. Many pro-choice social workers refer their clients to services run by religious groups who work in tandem with public agencies. Abortion is serious matter both psychologically and medically. That you think that we “worship” it is a testimony to the strength of the propaganda pushed by the anti-abortion movement.
You’re right- it’s not their job, or their business what CPC’s do, is it? So why do they spend so much of their time and effort working to put a stop to CPC’s, if they are truly supportive of women making up their own minds about abortion? Oh that’s right- women are stupid and easily manipulated if they walk into a CPC, but they are smart, intelligent and capable people if they walk into an abortion clinic. ;-)
Arttheemissed,
Does your voice always get this shrill when you are confronted with your folly?
I intially mistook the shreaking sounds my neighors siamese cats make when they are breeding.
Is your fur flying too?
yor bro ken
Said this before on another thread; didn’t get an answer (hmmm….)
Artemis: if the pro-choice-to-kill-babies crowd is really as open-minded as you say, and they really are only interested in people making the choice that is best for them, and they really are okay with whichever choice is made….
Show me just one pro-choice-to-kill-babies website where everyone respects Michelle Duggar’s right to have her nineteenth child, and to possibly have more, and no one implies she has made a wrong decision in continuing to have children.
At least we don’t try to pretend that we think all choices are equal.
ycw,
I am sure the fur is flying now.
yor bro ken
An excellent point, YCW!
kbhvac, it is…I can feel it!
@Artemis: So you’ve opted for the “throwing a temper tantrum” route. Okay, cool.
I said the white folks who decry the “slaughter” are the ones who oppose increase in social spending for those social, public programs which support women in need.
[citation needed]
Minorities are almost totally on board with these types of programs whether they are pro-life or pro-choice.
[citation needed]
90% of blacks are democrats and it’s the democrats who make sure that public assistance programs are maintained.
[citation needed]
It’s the republicans (a mostly white group) who would defund these efforts to help women.
[citation needed]
Then Elijah turned to the prophets of Baal. “You first,” he said, “for there are many of you; …call to your god;…
So they prepared one of the young bulls and placed it on the altar; and they called to Baal all morning, shouting, “O Baal, hear us!” But there was no reply of any kind. Then they began to dance around the altar.
About noontime, Elijah began mocking them.
“You’ll have to shout louder than that,” he scoffed, “to catch the attention of your god! Perhaps he is talking to someone,
or is out sitting on the toilet,
or maybe he is away on a trip,
or is asleep and needs to be wakened!”
So they shouted louder and, as was their custom, cut themselves with knives and swords until the blood gushed out.
They raved all afternoon until the time of the evening sacrifice, but there was no reply, no voice, no answer.
—————————————————
Their baal gods were as unresponsive as artemiserly and her gods.
yor bro ken
“You preferred and demanded method of support for pregnant teens and poor moms is with someone elses money”
You’re calling me a “dunce and a moron.” I could call you a f&#cking asshole; but so far, I’ve tried to be polite as are most of those who post here. How dare you pass judgement on what I donate my money to. I donate to Planned Parenthood (in addition to Episcopal Charities despite the fact that I’m not a member of that church) because it is a health resource for women which provides an array of health services/education for women and teens. I spent a good deal of my career assisting families in need as well as working with children who were sexually and physically abused. Perhaps the saddest case we had was a 10 year old who was raped by her father and who brought the child to term. The local right to life groups weren’t too helpful with that one. I am glad that my tax money goes to programs that assist children and families. If it were left strictly to the private sector, these folks would be begging on the streets. If others choose to support “Right to Life” groups, that’s great because they do provide assistance where it is needed. Unfortunately, the Catholic home for unwed mothers provides no contraceptive assistance. That is where PP is a valuable resource for those lower income women, with no family or no resources, who have enough to handle with one child and don’t need to get pregnant again. And yes, they do provide referral sheets, to public and private agencies, for new moms who utilize PP for their pap smears, mamograms, and contraceptive needs.
And one more thing, Ken. Seeing that you did a “virtual psych” diagnosis for me, I’ll do one for you. (And yes, I have a Masters Degree which, in the real world, allows me to do actual psych evals.) You really seem to have some major anger issues especially towards liberal, independent women. I wouldn’t be suprised if your “personality profile” has a lot in common with guys like Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder. Just saying…
Artemis….I actually don’t watch Bill O’reilly. I find his demeanor annoying..but what if I did? Is this your argument…that I like Bill O’Reilly therefore the ad should not be aired?
Wow. you’re a dunce like Jemhu Greene. GREAT arguments…keep em coming!
Perhaps the saddest case we had was a 10 year old who was raped by her father and who brought the child to term.
You mean the fetus/embryo/zygote?
Perhaps the saddest case we had was a 10 year old who was raped by her father and who brought the child to term. The local right to life groups weren’t too helpful with that one.
So…lets see.. What action plan did you have to help this girl recover emotionally from what her father did, besides give her an abortion and send her back home?
Aretmis…read the book “The Big Black Lie” by Kevin Jackson. He is a black man who has a blog the Black Sphere where he chronicles it is actually the DEMOCRATS who are racist. The democrats were the white slave owner and in our day and age its the democrats who would like to see black peoples numbers controlled by abortion and enslaved to welfare.
We do not oppose helping those who are poor and in need. Birthright helps women once they give birth. But we help them find good housing, jobs, education so that they can SUCCESSFULLY parent not just exist on welfare.
The government does NOTHING effectively so how can we expect the government to affectively care for single moms and fatherless children? We as a charitable people should be doing that. I have had women working for me on welfare. They are miserable. They are unhappy. They feel resentful and stuck. That is not help.
All you liberals want to do is abort women’s babies and if they give birth stick em on the welfare rolls and just forget about them. you don’t want to actually invest yourself in another human being and help them make good life decisions. Its the pro-lifers who invest ourselves in the lives of women not just hand them a quick fix.
This I know from experience Artemis.
Posted by: Keli Hu at January 30, 2010 12:43 PM
The “citations” that you seek are numerous. A cursory review of voting records of politicians shows that democrats are more in favor of social service programs than are republicans. During the Bush administration, the S-Chip program was opposed by depublicans; but it subsequently passed when the democrats took over the house.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15548.html
“Many people presume blacks will support national insurance because blacks have traditionally supported social service spending.”
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/2/1/2/7/7/p212778_index.html
“large percentage of blacks are poor or working class and blacks vote overwhelmingly for Democrats”
http://article.nationalreview.com/303261/whats-the-matter-with-harlem/peter-kirsanow
It should be noted that although the majority of blacks vote democratic, many of them are socially conservative.
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 12:46 PM
“You really seem to have some major anger issues especially towards liberal, independent women. I wouldn’t be suprised if your “personality profile” has a lot in common with guys like Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder. Just saying…”
——————————————————-
artthepissed,
I said pro-choice liberals were dunces and morons.
If that is your chosen label then wear it proudly.
So the money that pays your salary comes from taxpayers and what do you produce to earn it?
What is the fruit of your labors?
Give us one success story and the amount of other peoples money that was expended to attain it.
What percentage of your own free time and money did you invest in someone elses life?
A masters degree. Impressive.
[Wow, I have a high school diploma, just barely.]
What is your field of study.
Psychology?
Sociology?
Womens’s Studies?
Who pays for that expertise?
‘virtual psyche’ evaluation.
No, not hardly.
I do not require any training or education to recognize a wounded and angry women when I encounter her.
I do not have issues towards independent women, especially women who are successful.
It is liberals in general with whom I have ‘issues’.
I particularly like to poke fun at the pretentiousness of female liberals who have very overinflated opinions of themselves.
yor bro ken
Posted by: Sydney M at January 30, 2010 1:04 PM
And I know “from experience” because my “experience” was working for a state welfare agency which assisted women in getting off welfare. Are you aware that “TANF” mandates a time limite for welfare. During that time, women (and men) are required to first obtain training for employment and then find employment. If they do not comply, their benefits are cut. Teen moms are required to be in school. Many of the CNA’s who work in nursing homes received their certificates from our programs. Many of our culinary school grads work in local restaurants. I remember the children of the clients who were so proud when their moms graduated from either high school or a jobs program or the two year community college. Many of these women were the first in their families to do so and were quite proud to be self sufficient. For you to see we “stick em on the welfare roles and forget about them” betrays a woeful lack of understanding of the welfare programs – certainly not the one in my state. And this business of liberals wanting women to abort is just bizarre…I don’t understand the logical basis of that belief. Perhaps there is no logic.
Artemis,
The statistics don’t matter in the least to me, but I have to question your using of the link where you obtain the quote
“Many people presume blacks will support national insurance because blacks have traditionally supported social service spending.”
First of all, the quote is from the abstract, not the actual paper itself. Second of all, the VERY NEXT LINE reads “However, the distrust of government intervention established in the public opinion literature provides a theoretical reason to question this assumption of unilateral blacks support.”
Again, because this is the abstract, we have no way of knowing the conclusion that the author reached without reading the ACTUAL paper. And again, it doesn’t matter in the least to me what his findings were. I am pointing this out as a professional scholar, not as a pro-lifer.
This is one of the unfortunate drawbacks of everything being on the internet- it creates a false sense of scholarship. Do a quick key word search for whatever topic you’re interested in, find some scholarly articles on them, and poof, there’s your evidence. No need to read (or even have) the actual paper, because here’s a nice little quote. Unfortunately, I fear that this trend will only continue to grow…
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 1:15 PM
I don’t understand the logical basis of that belief. Perhaps there is no logic.
—————————————————
arttheeprissy
Perhaps the flaw is not with the ‘logic’ but with your understanding or lack thereof.
I find that most liberals primary dysfucntion is that they routinely reject the answer that logic provides because they dislike the answer.
yor bro ken
“What is the fruit of your labors?
Give us one success story and the amount of other peoples money that was expended to attain it”
When I worked for Child Welfare, I handled a number of cases. Perhaps the most successful was case managing a situation in which a 15 year old girl was raped by her father. The judge in the criminal case against her father did not, initially, believe her. My support of this girl, which included a number of psych evaluations used in court, allowed her to have the strength to testify against her father. At the same time, her younger sister also came forward with credible allegations of sexual abuse. Daddy was sent to jail for over 50 years. But this kind of thing is routine for all child welfare workers who are paid from “other people’s money.” (Would you abolish this department?) And as a supervisor in both geriatrics and family services, my workers had lots of “success stories” as far as assisting those in need. I have also done volunteer counseling (my degree) at a battered women’s shelter as well as escorting at PP. I also lobbied, years ago, for gay rights legislation which was one of the first in the nation to pass. You know – liberal stuff which, I’m sure, you despise.
Your turn. What have you done professionally or personally to help others?
Just watched the video. Oh please.
No, CBS is NOT going to pull this ad. The backlash against them would be tremendous.
I haven’t had time to read all the comments here, but, IMHO, this controversial ad is one of the best things to happen to the pro-life movement in a long time. People are talking about it on both sides. The pro-aborts’ arguments are looking scripted and irrational.
O’Reilly asks Jehmu why she is offended by this ad and she says its undermining women. It’s obvious that the pro-life stance and stories such as Tebow’s invalidate the choices of post-abortive women in their own minds. It is easy to see why they are frazzled over it. I have total compassion for grieving post-abortive women and pray that they find healing and forgiveness. Jehmu and the other pro-choicer/aborts are not helping women; in fact, they are perpetuating the myth that abortion empowers women.
So…lets see.. What action plan did you have to help this girl recover emotionally from what her father did, besides give her an abortion and send her back home?
Posted by: bethany at January 30, 2010 12:54 PM
Didn’t you read where I said that the girl gave birth as that was the decision of her mother. We, at no time, recommended abortion. She was connected to a myriad of social and psychiatric services. She had “parenting classes” at the hospital where she delivered. The VNA (whose funds have been cut back recently) were going to be visiting her on a twice weekly basis. Her case was going to be managed by our department until the court deemed in ready for closing at which point a community organization (whose funds were cut recently) would be looking after her. The father, meanwhile, went to jail. Anything else you want to know.
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 12:46 PM
And one more thing, Ken. Seeing that you did a “virtual psych” diagnosis for me, I’ll do one for you. (And yes, I have a Masters Degree which, in the real world, allows me to do actual psych evals.)
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arttherapyst,
With any do respect I have grave doubts about your ‘clinical detachment’.
But I am sure you will fare well as a bureaucrat in B.O.’s hellth scare scam should it ever survive the overwhelming public rejection it is now experiencing.
The mental hellth scare field will no doubt be one of the few segments of our economy that experiencing real growth.
Liberal mental hellth scare ‘professionals’ such as yourself will be working overtime examining, diagnosing and treating fellow liberals who are cilnically depressed and even suicidal after experiencing the utopia they have help to create.
Then there will be all those mentally ill conservative christians and pro-lifers whom you will have to institutionalize for their own protection as well as yours.
It will take a long time and a lot of very powerful psychotropic pharmaceuticals before you can get them into a condition were they will agree with you that 2+2=pink.
yor bro ken
So you worked for the WELFARE DEPT…I actually worked with the women ON welfare. They were NOT HAPPY.
They got free checks and free healthcare and still bitched and moaned. They were promiscuous, they were verbally abusive to their children, they smoked pot in front of their kids. There was no accountability for the poor decisions of their lives, just free birth control and free money every month.
These women were not stupid. They were VERY intelligent. I was frustrated to see such brains go to waste.
I volunteer at Birthright. I use MY OWN MONEY of MY OWN FREE WILL (not be forcibly removed from me by government against my will where I have no say where it goes). I buy supplies for Birthright, I spend my time helping the mothers get what they NEED free of charge.
I have driven singe moms to and from work. I have picked up single mom’s drunk baby daddies from the streets in the ghetto where there is tons of crime to drive them to a shelter. I don’t think in hindsight it was that smart but I had a desire to help these women and be there when they needed me.
I actually care enough to see these women make good decisions and smart decisions that put their health and emotional wellbeing at risk.
You sit behind a desk and get paid to pretend you care. You go Artemis! Go girl!
I meant DON’T put their health and well-being at risk. Sometimes I type too quickly and don’t proof read.
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 1:37 PM
The father, meanwhile, went to jail. Anything else you want to know.
—————————————————-
Yes!
How long before you and your ‘dead babies r us’ folks will be joining him?
yor bro ken
Didn’t you read where I said that the girl gave birth as that was the decision of her mother. We, at no time, recommended abortion. She was connected to a myriad of social and psychiatric services. She had “parenting classes” at the hospital where she delivered. The VNA (whose funds have been cut back recently) were going to be visiting her on a twice weekly basis. Her case was going to be managed by our department until the court deemed in ready for closing at which point a community organization (whose funds were cut recently) would be looking after her. The father, meanwhile, went to jail. Anything else you want to know.
Sure..how about an actual answer to my question.
What would YOUR plan of action have been to help that girl recover emotionally? None of what you said had anything to do with my question.
And you didn’t suggest abortion? Why not, out of curiosity.
“in fact, they are perpetuating the myth that abortion empowers women.”
Posted by: Janet at January 30, 2010 1:35 PM
The myth here is what you allege is the thinking of those who support choice. It’s not abortion, itself, that “empowers women.” It’s reproductive choice; i.e. the freedom to decide when or if to reproduce. Prior to contraceptive technology and abortion, women’s lot in life was proscribed and limited. Things are different now. And it’s women’s reproductive freedom that seems to be so threatening to the forced childbirth crowd chief among them “Focus on the Family” which definitely proscribes the role of women. I hope the ad airs because it will continue a very vital discussion about why we can’t turn the clock back to pre-Roe days.
I hope the ad airs because it will continue a very vital discussion about why we can’t turn the clock back to pre-Roe days.
LOL you amuse me.
Didn’t you read where I said that the girl gave birth as that was the decision of her mother. We, at no time, recommended abortion. She was connected to a myriad of social and psychiatric services. She had “parenting classes” at the hospital where she delivered. The VNA (whose funds have been cut back recently) were going to be visiting her on a twice weekly basis. Her case was going to be managed by our department until the court deemed in ready for closing at which point a community organization (whose funds were cut recently) would be looking after her. The father, meanwhile, went to jail. Anything else you want to know.
So be specific about the pro-life role in this. Did they hinder the father going to jail? What did they do to make sure that she did not get counseling or support? How did they stand in the way, as you have implied.
“What would YOUR plan of action have been to help that girl recover emotionally? None of what you said had anything to do with my question”
I was in total agreement with the case plan developed by my co-worker. The child’s emotional recovery was being taken care of by all those services to which I alluded. I don’t know what else you want me to say.
“And you didn’t suggest abortion? Why not, out of curiosity.”
That would have been professionally inappropriate and quite possibly unethical. A social worker/counselor should never “recommend” either an abortion or childbirth. Despite the child being in state custody, her mother was allowed to make the decision to either have the girl terminate or carry to term. It was a sad case. The girl kept the baby, too, which is why a support system was so vital.
@Artemis:
“Many people presume blacks will support national insurance because blacks have traditionally supported social service spending.”
“We’re guessing about something that might happen in the future, but we don’t know yet.”
“large percentage of blacks are poor or working class and blacks vote overwhelmingly for Democrats”
Here you’re saying African-Americans tend to vote for Democrats. Previously you claimed that Republicans are predominantly white. Interestingly enough (and blindingly obviously), those two claims have nothing to do with each other! So most African-Americans vote Democrat, so what? What does that have to do with Republicans being mostly white? And what does any of this have to do with the Tebow ad? You’re so far off topic here, it’s mind-boggling.
It should be noted that although the majority of blacks vote democratic, many of them are socially conservative.
Again, this wasn’t your claim. You made claims about Republicans/Conservatives. You are not supporting those claims by citing information about Democrats/Liberals. And again, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Abortion crime has destroyed the lives of FIVE HUNDRED MILLION (500,000,000) women around the world in the last 20 years. How can abortionist sympathizers like Artemis ignore the vast destruction of human life that this represents?
Abortionists want to make life easier for women (and men) who are already born (translation: themselves) at the expense of killing off huge numbers of members of the next generation. This is the ultimate in tyranny and selfishness.
Posted by: bethany at January 30, 2010 1:55 PM
Other than providing a crib and some diapers, the local “right to life” didn’t have anything elso to offer. But that’s pretty standard. They don’t have infinite resources. And regarding the “emotional recovery,” the organizations to whom the girl was referred provided counseling. While she was in court custody, the department paid for a child and family therapy with a psychologist.
I was in total agreement with the case plan developed by my co-worker. The child’s emotional recovery was being taken care of by all those services to which I alluded. I don’t know what else you want me to say.
So what did you do that a pro-lifer would have opposed? Or would have hindered?
That would have been professionally inappropriate and quite possibly unethical. A social worker/counselor should never “recommend” either an abortion or childbirth. Despite the child being in state custody, her mother was allowed to make the decision to either have the girl terminate or carry to term. It was a sad case. The girl kept the baby, too, which is why a support system was so vital.
Same question. How did pro-lifers hinder any of your efforts to help the girl, since you obviously didn’t suggest abortion?
Posted by: Keli Hu at January 30, 2010 2:00 PM
I was responding to the tired anti-abort meme that black babies are being “butchered” by Planned Parenthood. I pointed out that white republicans (many of whom support this notion of “genocide”) don’t support public assistance programs (for the “post born black children)that democrats do. The majority of blacks do vote democratic so it can be, I think, safely inferred that they support social service programs. But that is, as you say, off topic. My main point is that it is very insulting to say that black women are being “taken advantage of” when they have abortions at Planned Parenthood. It is a decision that they make freely and to say otherwise is very offensive as it implies that they are either stupid or very childlike. Obviously, they are not.
We pro-lifers don’t have infinite resources like say…planned parenthood because we don’t force taxpayers to fund us? Is that your point Artemis?
We DO have infinite resources Artemis because God,as the Creator of life, is on the side of life. He owns everything in this world. There is nothing pro-lifers can’t buy if it is God’s will. Our local Birthright has never been short on donations…GENEROUS donations and we have helped countless women. And we helped them without killing their children.
Read the story of the National Memorial for the Unborn in Chattanooga TN. They had a bidding war with the abortionist for the property and didn’t think they’d ever have enough money to buy the old clinic but money poured in. God laid it on His people’s hearts and they responded and they won on the last possible bid they could have afforded to make.
The abortion industry is fat and rich off the blood of women and children. congratulations.
Artemis 1:46 PM,
Excuse me, I should have said “reproductive choice (not abortion) empowers women”.
I don’t think the word you are looking for is “proscribed”, but I get your point.
Definition: to condemn or forbid as harmful or unlawful : prohibit
— pro·scrib·er noun
I agree with you that a woman’s life (choices) were limited before contraception, but contraceptive technology was only a tiny part of the reason why. You make it sound like contraceptives were the only live-changing invention of the last one hundred years. (Look at electricity, the automobile, the refrigerator/freezer, the computer, etc…. All of these inventions have transformed our society so that it is barely recognizable from what it was 100 years ago. Women and men worked much harder physically and much longer days than they do now. Was the life of a home-maker and mother all that horrible? I don’t think so. Those who thought it was are the noisy minority. I don’t doubt that some women had (and have) lousy circumstances in their lives but that doesn’t mean society needed to be turned upside-down as the feminists believed.
Things were bad pre-Roe? You make it sound like there was blood puddled in streets and alleys and kitchens in small towns and cities across the country. Not so. Abortionist Nathanson has stated that the numbers of these abortions were greatly fabricated by those who wanted to promote the abortion industry.
How has women’s “reproductive freedom” improved your life in a meaningful way? Are you male or female, by the way? Just curious.
Posted by: bethany at January 30, 2010 2:05 PM
“Pro lifers” had nothing to do with the case other than providing some stuff for the child. When I said that “they were not too helpful” I meant that what they provided was limited. But as I say, I don’t know how much more they could have given.
And re abortion. As far as I recall, the little girl was way into the pregnancy and at that time (1986) late term abortions were not, to my knowledge, available. But in case you’re wondering. If I had a 10 year old child who was pregnant as a result of a rape, she would have an abortion. Oh, NOOOoooooo. Right, I’ll be cast into the Lake of Fire (where I have a lakeside condo all set up and where I’ll be hosting fabulous parties).
You can curse at Ken all you want ARtemis, BTW I called you a dunce too because no matter what “master’s degree you hold” (big deal, I could tell you how many PH.D’s I am blood related to, would you care? I could tell you my SAT score 1400…do you care? WHO CARES? ) You still can’t argue a thing with any shred of intelligence!
Abortionists have medical degrees…BIG DEAL. Your high level of education means you’re good at school, not that you have ANY common sense whatsoever which is proven by your blabbering over abortion rights and pregnant ten year olds. NO COMMON SENSE.
If I had a 10 year old child who was pregnant as a result of a rape, she would have an abortion. Oh, NOOOoooooo. Right, I’ll be cast into the Lake of Fire
No, but you sure shot your whole freedom of choice argument down the drain with that comment. Your daughter gets no say in what happens to her body? For shame.
How has women’s “reproductive freedom” improved your life in a meaningful way? Are you male or female, by the way? Just curious.
Posted by: Janet at January 30, 2010 2:18 PM
It has absolutely improved my life. I was able to have relationships without the fear of pregnancy. After Roe, I knew that if I did become pregnant I wouldn’t need to douche with physo-hex like a friend of mine did and which caused all kinds of problems. Prior to my taking the birth control bill and prior to Roe, I relied on “rhythmn” (as taught to me by my mother) but that isn’t always reliable. When I had a little problem, I made creative use of a turkey baster (finding an underground abortionist was impossible) and that seemed to take care of things which was fine because “daddy” was not exactly rowing with both oars. Having the pill and abortion available made life so much easier. But as a staunch pro-choice woman, I say that each woman needs to make decisions based on what’s best for her. I don’t judge anybody who either has a baby or an abortion. None of my business.
Late term abortions have ALWAYS been available Artemis. See what I mean about ignorance despite a master’s degree?
1860’s there was a case of a doctor and a lover performing an abortion on the mother in the sixth month of pregnancy and she died. And yes it was illegal but it was still performed by a DOCTOR just like today. See the Cemetery of Choice for that story.
Gianna Jessen was aborted in the seventh month of pregnancy by her teen mother. That was 1977. She is alive today.
Inglewood California…an abortion clinic’s dumpster was reposessed for non-payment. It was so jam packed full of rotting dead babies that the winch broke! They found COUNTLESS babies in the second and third trimesters mutilated within that dumpster. You can see photos of the babies. And they were taken by the CORONER’S OFFICE not by pro-lifers. Some of those babies were aborted in 1980 which I take offense to because I was a fetus for half of 1980, thankyou very much and I would have not appreciated someone dismembering me.
More photos taken of 6 month old babies found outside a Houston abortion clinic. This was a photo that I found at 8 years old and it made me pro-life. It is a photo of a baby’s ripped head being held by forceps over a jar.
George Tiller M.D. is on camera bragging he has aborted babies in the 9 month.
familiar with Doe V. Bolton since you know oh so much about abortion, Artemis? It legalized abortion throughout all 9 months of pregnancy.
Posted by: Mary at January 30, 2010 8:48 AM
If the ladies of NOW check their TV remote controls they will discover they have “power”, “channel”, and “mute”.
This makes the choice of listening/not listening to this ad very simple.
Since they expound on the wisdom of women in making their own life decisions, then certainly we have the capacity to use the remote control as we see fit.
——————————————————-
Mary,
Well, not so much.
At the risk of resorting to sterotypes to make my case I would suggest that unless the NO[SL]W, (National Organization of Some Liberal Women) are homosexual, not married or not in relationship with benefits with a male, the misseys will find it tough sledding attempting to persuade the ‘MAN’ to relinquish control of the remote.
All except for Harry Reid’s spouse and Nancy Pelosi’s eunuch.
[NOWSLW is not a sterotype. NOWSLW’S membership is overwhelming liberal with a heavy concentration of female homosexuals]
The sterotype is men and remotes.
yor bro ken
So Artemis you self-aborted your baby because the father was not “rowing with both oars” but yet had no such discernment when you chose to link genitals with him? See what I mean about having a master’s doesn’t mean you have intelligence?
I can proudly say I have slept with one man my entire life. It was HARD to stay a virgin as a teen as I had some hot boyfriends who pressured me endlessly to give in but thank God I had some common sense. I knew about STD’s. That scared me enough to say NO WAY.
my husband and I gave each other our virginity. No need to worry about disease, no need to abort embarrassing pregnancies. And when I did unexpectedly become pregnant ( I was on the pill. Took it every day, no antibiotics involved and yet it failed me. Don’t take that deadly pill anymore!) my husband and I welcomed that little life with joy, fear, uncertainty and butterflies in our stomachs. And today our little boy is the light of our lives (though he is EXTREMELY cranky today)
As a former fetus I find abortion offensive. As a mom I find abortion offensive. I was a life in the womb. My son was a life in the womb.
Why is that so hard for you to accept, Artemis?
“Having the pill and abortion available made life so much easier.”
Artemis,
So in the grand scheme of things, an easy life is your goal?
How’s that going for you?
Posted by: bethany at January 30, 2010 2:30 PM
I would argue that a 10 year old is not capable of making an informed decision about a pregnancy or an abortion. That’s why, in this case, the mother of the child made the decision which, I think, was a poor one given that the body of a 10 year old is not really equipped to handle a pregnancy. But again, the decision was up to the mother who was going to be providing suppport for her daughter and grandchild.
I would argue that a 10 year old is not capable of making an informed decision about a pregnancy or an abortion. That’s why, in this case, the mother of the child made the decision which, I think, was a poor one given that the body of a 10 year old is not really equipped to handle a pregnancy. But again, the decision was up to the mother who was going to be providing suppport for her daughter and grandchild.
Case in point. When it comes right down to it, the “pro-choice” crowd always wants ABORTION. If they can prevent a birth and cause an abortion, they will do whatever it takes to make it happen!
So Artemis you self-aborted your baby because the father was not “rowing with both oars” but yet had no such discernment when you chose to link genitals with him? See what I mean about having a master’s doesn’t mean you have intelligence?
Right on, Sydney.
I am very glad to hear that CBS is (probably) going to air this spot. Because something very similar happened in my own family and it signals a problem people need to be aware of.
My mom already had 8 living children (and one who had died from SIDS) when she realized she was pregnant again at age 42. My dad was in the hospital with health problems at the time. Mom told my Dad’s doctor, “I think I’m pregnant; I don’t know how I’m going to tell my husband.” She didn’t think Dad needed any more pressure at the moment. (Their oldest kids then were my brother, age 22, and me, age 20).
The doctor suggested she confirm the pregnancy, and when she did, he immediately urged her to have an abortion, saying that because of her age there was so much greater risk of having a child with Down Syndrome. Plus, her last pregnancy had been the first (out of nine!) where the baby had been RH positive and she had been “sensitized.” The doctor predicted that this baby would have dire complications because of that. My mom told him flatly that she would never agree to an abortion.
When my dad found out, and had gotten over his shock, he was actually tickled to find out he was going to be a father again at age 45. My mom fortunately had a good pro-life ob-gyn who supported her all the way. My dad recovered and my mom gave birth to a perfectly healthy baby girl. Erin is the joy of our whole family, a talented artist and is now happily married with two beautiful kids of her own.
The thing is, doctors are often wrong, and urge abortions for “medical reasons” on women when they are completely unnecessary. True, this was back in the days when ultrasounds, amniocentesis and other diagnostic aids were less common than now, but you still see this type of thing. I seriously think that many doctors would rather have a child aborted than risk a malpractice suit if the child turns out to have complications that damage his or her health. It’s not always done out of good medical judgment, but out of sharing the abortion mentality.
So, the question is not “trusting Jesus’ over your doctor, Artemis; it’s a real medical question of whether all the abortions that are said to be medically necessary really are. I hope that women will take this away from the ad and be sure to get a second opinion if something like this happens to them.
Late term abortions have ALWAYS been available Artemis. See what I mean about ignorance despite a master’s degree?
Posted by: Sydney M at January 30, 2010 2:32 PM
In the late 80’s, in my state, late term abortions were illegal unless to save the life of the mother. I believe that statute still stands. The decision was made, by the child’s mother, for her daughter to give birth. Had she desired for the child to abort, she would have arranged that on her own and our involvment would have been to ensure that the predator had no access to the girl and that she received counseling. And I do love all your “pro-life” horror stories – ripped heads in jars could make for a great horror movie plot. Do you have any “citations” from local press reports?
For heaven’s sake Artemis,
Before you blow a gasket remember my words:
My TV remote control has “power”, “channel”, and “mute”. Look at your remote and you will likely find the same. It should do wonders for your blood pressure to know you will be in no way forced to endure this ad.
FYI, for years there were PA ads and bumper stickers and no one whined about “divisiveness”.
Maybe you should have started a campaign to take donations for a PA ad in time for the SuperBowl and you’re just PO’d you missed the chance.
Sorry about the double post. Don’t know what happened there. I was informed the first one had failed due to “internal server error.”
Posted by: Lori Pieper at January 30, 2010 2:51 PM
Excellent and well written defense of the ad. What you say about a second opinion is so true – not just about a pregnancy but about any “life threatening” situation. But I do suspect that the focus of the ad will be on the “trusting Jesus” aspect – given that it is done by a Christian group and the Tebow’s are evangelicals. In this case, the second opinion was faith and that doesn’t always produce positive results. Certainly the fact that Mrs. Tebow was in a country where the environmental conditions were less than perfect contributed to her doctor’s concern. But you make a valid point and I enjoyed reading it. Glad to hear that your mother’s pregnancy worked out well.
Artemis, I am so sorry you felt like you had to kill your own child. I don’t claim to know how you felt about it, but as a mother, I know that being in a position where I felt the only way out was to kill one of my children, it would have torn out my soul.
I understand from what you say that you did not want that child, and still don’t want that child. I am also reading between the lines to guess that this happened prior to 1973 (at least) so your child would have been older than I am, had he or she lived. But God has laid a burden on my heart for children who were aborted. So while this probably seems a very odd request to you, I must ask–may I adopt your child, whom you did not and do not want?
Because I agree with Planned Parenthood about one thing–every child should be a wanted child; every person should be wanted by someone. Everyone–you, your child, your child’s father–everyone deserves love. God loves you, and Jesus loves you–he loves you so much he was willing to die a brutal and painful death so that you would not have to suffer the consequences of your sin. I am very glad that Jesus has taken the punishment for my sin; there is no way I could be good enough to make up for the evil that is inside me. And because Jesus–who never sinned–died for your baby, I have confidence that he or she, like the children I have lost, is in heaven with God. Jesus wants you to become part of our family, to be forgiven and healed. I urge you, please, to take him up on his offer.
But if you choose not to–I would ask you to please let me pray for your child who was never born, to offer to that child a mother’s love, as best I can from Earth while he or she is in heaven, and one day in heaven to meet him or her as my son or daughter (though he or she is already my brother or sister). Does your child have a name? If not, would you like to choose one? If not, may I?
I will not seek to follow you around or bother you. I will not use this in any way (though I would inform my husband). I will pray for you and your child regardless of your answer. You probably think that I am crazy, and I don’t care–I care what my God thinks of me. But if you do not believe in anything beyond this life, you have nothing to lose. The Spirit of the Living God compels me to offer this.
I hope this ad changes hearts, changes minds.
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 1:28 PM
You What have you done professionally or personally to help others?
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Arttheleast,
Let me fist dispose of the ‘professional’ part of your inerogatory.
Prostitutes are ‘professionals’ who require money before they provide their services. They don’t care where or how the money originated but they will not offer their gifts without it.
Personally,
My favorite is prempting homeless people and asking them if I can buy them a meal before they have the opportunity to ask me.
Then I try to engage them in conversation and see if I can determine anything I can do to change or better their lot in life. I like to hear their ‘story’ , not the one written on the piece of cardboard, but who they really are.
I have invited some home to share a meal, take shower, and enjoy a clean bed for the night. I have payed them to help me with my work when there is work available.
I have taken druggies into my home who were making an honest effort to get their life in order. They have stayed for months and when they thought ‘they’ were ready they left even when we disagreeded with their decision.
When my immigrtant neighbor was sick and dying with cancer, I gave him money, took his sons to little league, went to his childrens school functions, repaired his a/c, drove him 250 miles one way for chemotherapy, drove his wife and children to see him when he was in last days.
Each year I make multiple trips, averages about one every two months to the border of Texas and New Mexico to provide material and financial support for children and adults in Acuńa. I do this all at my own expense and on my own time.
Right now I and some fellow strangers are providing material, financial and emotional support for a single un-wed mother in Del Rio, Texas. All at our own expense.
I am doing all this while providing for my wife and five children, four of whom are in college.
I just received my W-2 form from work. Last year I grossed less than $48,000.00 which I earned by producing something of value.
I just spent a weekend replacing a retired pastor’s A/C system in his house. I provided the equipment at my cost and donated my labor.
I have done all this by the grace and strength that the LORD provides, not the government.
I have no reason to brag, but I do boast in the LORD Jesus.
I take credit for none of this but I do take great delight in doing and seeing it done.
You asked the question.
I have given you a partial answer.
Before Jesus intervened in my life I was murderer, rapist, thief, drug dealer, womanizer, racist and liar.
All my crimes and sins have been forgiven.
It was the free gift of GOD.
How about you?
yor bro ken
Artemis 3:02PM
So what? Why should you care? Get a second opinion from who or whatever you want. We have freedom of religion and speech in this country. The Tebows can say and believe what they want and are free to say this anyway they want. Live with it.
Why don’t you take up a collection to put an ad of your own on TV and stop obsessing over this one.
Remember what I said about the remote control. Are you having trouble finding the “power”, “channel” and “mute”?
Mary,
She may need a ‘man with both oars in the water’ to show her how to use a remote.
I don’t get the feeling that she is the type of person who cares for professional fooball.
She is just howlin at the moon or barkin at passing cars.
yor bro ken
Mary,
She may need a ‘man with both oars in the water’ just to show her how to use a remote.
I don’t get the feeling that she is the type of person who cares for professional fooball anyway.
She is just howlin at the moon or barkin at passing cars.
yor bro ken
Lori Pieper
Thank you for sharing your family’s story.
* * *
Artemis,
You are right, that “trusting Jesus” does not always produce what we might consider “positive results” at the time. But we trust in God’s love to guide us. We trust that God’s way is not always the easy way.
Whoooooooaaaaaa!
Man I got to get that tremor looked at.
yor bro ken
“Excellent and well written defense of the ad. What you say about a second opinion is so true – not just about a pregnancy but about any “life threatening” situation.”
So glad there is something we can agree on, Artemis!
“But I do suspect that the focus of the ad will be on the “trusting Jesus” aspect – given that it is done by a Christian group and the Tebow’s are evangelicals. In this case, the second opinion was faith and that doesn’t always produce positive results.”
My mother does indeed trust Jesus, being a good Catholic. But she is also a very smart lady who knew enough to know that one doctor didn’t necessarily have all the answers. Faith made her strong, and strength is an advantage in any situation. It helped her not to get scared when the doctor was trying to pressure her, and helped her stick to her guns and use her intelligence. Religious belief and intelligence can go together, in spite of what you think. What you said is pretty demeaning to all Christians.
Besides, since neither you nor I have seen the ad yet, how do you know what it’s going to say?
However, you do sound more reasonable than usual today, so I guess we’re making progress.
Here’s my proof Artemis.
http://www.abortionno.org/index.php/abortion_pictures/image_full/238/
My son just woke up from his nap. Gotta go!
What the nags of NOSLW really crave is remote that will control men.
yor bro ken
Hi Ken,
To think of the aggravation and blood pressure elevation a simple remote control can spare someone. I hope Artemis figures it out in time.
Artemis,
I am getting in on this exchange late, but have a question for you.
If your pro-choice side is so concerned about offering reproductive choices, and claim to care so much about women’s physical and emotional health, then why why why did NARAL Pro-CHOICE America blatantly and actively protest a bill that was offered in my state that would ensure women who were diagnosed with miscarriage the right to know their options for fetal disposition.
Many women who miscarry and have a D&C come to find out later that their babies were tossed away in an incinerator with all of the medical waste.
This has been devastating for women and their families. Had they been given informed CHOICES they would be much better off emotionally during this distressing time.
Why not support this choice? Be honest.
I’m sorry, but this just kinda struck me as odd:
“Unfortunately, the Catholic home for unwed mothers provides no contraceptive assistance. That is where PP is a valuable resource for those lower income women, with no family or no resources, who have enough to handle with one child and don’t need to get pregnant again.”
If they are an unwed mother, doing everything they can to take care of their children and somehow support them…when are they finding the time to have sex? You act as though women just randomly become pregnant on their own without reason.
I would honestly think that a woman in a bad situation who already has a child or children she is having a hard time taking care of with little or no support from the child’s or children’s father(s) would not be that interested in sex, considering that is what got her into the mess in the first place…Did you ever give the advice of “Hey…maybe a physical relationship is not the best idea right now, huh?”
You make it sound as though women are dumb animals incapable of saying “No.”, rolling around like a cat in heat. Is your opinion of us really that low?
Also:
“The myth here is what you allege is the thinking of those who support choice. It’s not abortion, itself, that “empowers women.” It’s reproductive choice; i.e. the freedom to decide when or if to reproduce.”
You misunderstand us, I’m afraid. I do not care in the least about when/how/where/with whom a woman chooses to reproduce. The problem is, Artemis, that once abortion becomes an option, a woman has already reproduced.
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 3:02 PM
“But I do suspect that the focus of the ad will be on the “trusting Jesus” aspect – given that it is done by a Christian group and the Tebow’s are evangelicals.”
————————————————–
‘suspect’?!?!
I understand you can buy software that will analyze audio streams and automatically delete or mute offending word and phrases.
If you are suffering from anxiety over the probability of hearing the J word or G word, but you cannot resist watching this commercial to validate your anti-christian bigotry, then have some more reolutely atheistic or paganist person view it for you and provide you with a second hand sanitized paraphrase of the 30 second piece of potentially subversive propaganda.
We all know, “You cannot un-ring the bell.”
Once you have heard the ‘peal’ it is permanently and irrevocably etched in the chemistry of your brain.
Once exposed there is the real possibility that you will become infected and pass the affliction on to other UN-‘suspecting’ souls.
yor bro ken
being pro-choice is about advocating CHOICE, not abortion. we support any woman’s right to have children, just as we support any womans right to not not have children.
ycw- you said you wanted to see a pro-choice blog standing up for the duggars? here you go:
“Not satisfied with mocking plus-sized people or objectifying women, PETA has started in on the Duggars. Their new billboard reads “Doggies multiply faster than Duggars.” PETA’s official blog says they have no problem with the Duggars, and {obviously, it was just a joke}.”
the bracketed part is italicized on the website, its towards the bottom of the page:
http://jezebel.com/5458742/sorority-girls-arrested-for-hazing-advertisement-takes-aim-at-duggar-family
and here is another liberal block speaking out against a hospital that sterilized a woman without her consent:
http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2010/01/05/forced_sterilization/index.html
‘suspect’
Reminds me of a line from the Ray Stevens song, ‘The Streak’.
“Don’t look Ethyl!”
Too late, she’d already been ‘mooned’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpRCDpyqack
yor bro ken
Ken, I respect you, but I will ot do such a thing! I almost died as a baby, and all the proaborts want is abortion, abortion, abortion!!! But let a woman change her mind, she’s made fun of, and remember that doctor that foriced that woman to continue with the abortion, When she said, “I don’t want to do this?” Will some one please look up the word choice in the dictionary, and post it on here? What does the word choice mean? Now if you can find a word I can use besides Pig, that I can use, in order to show my udder discust, I’ll be more than happy to start using it! Artmis, You are personally are not a pig. You are only mis-guided. RJ
Liberals add a whole new meaning to that well known song, “Jesus, there is just something about that name.”
dyuh thanek em libs nose mor n theighs letin awn.
yor bro ken
RJ,
Forgive me if I overstepped the boundaries.
It is just that I know ‘pigs’, ‘lesbians’, and ‘whores’ have feelings too.
And unlike ‘lesbians’ and ‘whores’, ‘pigs’ have no choice whatsoever.
They cannot change.
They are what they are.
[By way I can not speak for RJ, but for myself I only use the word ‘whore’ in a non gender specific way.]
yor bro ken
Two questions:
1. Do you think CBS will cave to pro-abort pressure and reject Focus on the Family’s ad featuring Tim and Pam Tebow or stand strong for another week and air it during the February 7 Super Bowl?
and
2. Which advocacy group is the ultimate winner of this controversy, pro-lifers or pro-aborts?
1. Standing firm is not a phrase I would use to describe CBS or any other member of the lame scream lap dog media.
CBS will NOT capitulate as much as their little humanistic, panty waiste, politically correct, pea pickin hearts might want.
2. No winners. The losers are the progressive/liberal/humanistic feministas. They went for the ‘tar baby’ and they are in it up their bony elbows.
yor bro ken
Ex-GOP: “Bethany – okay – so maybe a pro-choice organization should just run a commercial afterwards about a difficult pregnancy where a woman was having many mental issues, was on all sorts of pills, but decided to have the baby. That baby grew up to be Jeffrey Dahmer.”
The argument that we should abort children because they MIGHT grow up to be serial killers is no different from the argument that we should kill eight-year-olds because THEY might grow up to be serial killers. That amounts to preemptive capital punishment, yo, which I imagine most people would be against.
Artemis,
” ‘All while over a thousand Black babies are slaughtered every day’
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at January 30, 2010 10:28 AM
“I love how the anti-aborts are constantly braying about black “babies” being “slaughtered.” That implies that black women are stupid, mindless children who have no will of their own and who are, consequently, being “lured” into having an abortion. Although I am no longer a Catholic, I was taught, in Catholic schools, that everybody has “intellect and free will” so the idea that black women aren’t capable of making their own decision is very offensive if not borderline racist. The irony of this meme is that the white folks who are decrying this “slaughter” are those who would cut programs that aid poor, minority women who do give birth. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t, I guess.”
I’m usually inclined to generosity in the face of ignorance and stupidity, but you are neither. You are venal, vicious and small. So I’ll skip the decorum and just get to the heart of the matter.
First, as to your charges of racism, I worked with unwed minority teens at Covenant House, a shelter for homeless teens in NY’s Times Square for five years in the 1980’s. So you’ve pulled that pro-abort crap on the wrong man.
As for black girls being stupid and uninformed, lured to aborting their babies. Yes, actually, that sums up the case for quite a few of these girls who dropped out of school in junior high and have a fifth grade literacy level.
Yes, they are told that the child within their wombs is nothing more than a blob of inanimate tissue, a clump of cells by nasty, rotten people such as yourself. And these people have medical degrees, doctorates as do I. They know better. Which is why they don’t show the mothers the image of their baby struggling to avoid the suction catheters, forceps and needles. They don’t show the images of muted agony for a very god reason-all the while speaking soothing reassurances that this is mere tissue.
Yes, I agonize for women who don’t know better. I agonize even more for young girls who are fed lies by the likes of you. That they need to hear honest men and women such as myself and the pro-lifers here called racists suggests that you are in on the genocide.
The only braying here is the sound of a jackass trying to excuse away the genocide of a once-great and noble people who placed family ties above all else.
That would be you.
Think twice before you ever play the race card with me again.
Artemis: “I pointed out that white republicans (many of whom support this notion of ‘genocide’) don’t support public assistance programs (for the “post born black children)that democrats do.”
Artemis, if group X said it would do everything in its power to keep me from being killed, but wouldn’t give me a penny, and group Y said it would give me plenty of financial aid but fight to keep the “right” to kill me legal, guess which one I would support.
By the way, I think the gay dating service ad should be allowed, as well as the Tebow ad.
And I don’t use animal names as insults, including “lousy.”
Artemis: “I pointed out that white republicans (many of whom support this notion of ‘genocide’) don’t support public assistance programs (for the “post born black children)that democrats do.”
But the Democrats also fund the genocide. By that rationale, if I murder 1/3 of all a family’s extended relatives, but dole out money and food stamps, I’m a virtuous individual who’s done nothing wrong?
Remember, all the empty doublespeak about “reproductive choice” and “women’s health” is just that, empty doublespeak. The abortionists do NOT have ANY philosophical or moral arguments, NONE whatsoever.
The abortionists are supporting violence against unborn children for selfish reasons.
Killing human beings, including unborn human beings, is a crime and should be, must be, prohibited under law.
This is not about making someone’s life “easier”. It is about safeguarding and protecting human life and human rights.
Dena Schlosser
DeAnna LaJune
Andrea Yates
The NOSLW nags could use these women to justify a woman’s decision to kill her prenatal child.
Or
They make up testimonials from these mothers about what monsters their now notorous sons turned out to be.
Richard Speck
Charles Manson
Ted Bundy
B.O.
If I had the money I would pay for the ad myself.
yoe bro ken
The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round…..so its the same with her arguements. I would expect a woman who has such a high position in that kind of organization to have better debate tactics. Sheesh.
New bumper sticker…
“Don’t like Pro-life commericals. Don’t watch one!”
Have not read all the posts so don’t know if anyone penned this yet.
Posted by: kbhvac at January 30, 2010 5:43
So Ken. If I had a picture of you, should I put it up with Scott Roeder, Eric Rudolph, Michael Griffin, John Salvi, and James Kopp. Like you, they were doing “the Lord’s work.” Right? Justifiable Homicide, right? But here’s the thing, Ken, you can keep killing the abortion doctors but until the law of the land says that abortion is illegal, then it still exists for women who don’t want guys like you to have their grubby hands in their uteri.
And Stephanie – The “debating” that I see here is all “abortion is murder” blah, blah, blah. Too bad for you that the law doesn’t see it that way. And how are those “personhood” thingies working it. Digame, por favor!!!!
And Dr. Nadal. You have an impressive CV. But that your are loyal to the regressive “Magesterium” is interesting. As an ardent champion of the “pro-life” movement, you are a minority in the scientific community. Science should not be chained to religious dogma; but if that’s what you chose to believe, go for it.
Artemis, re: the Duggars: Not quite. No one is commenting on Michelle’s choice either way. Granted, this shows unusual restraint for a pro-choice-to-kill-babies site, but it is not the same as actually supporting her choices.
But here’s the thing, Ken, you can keep killing the abortion doctors but until the law of the land says that abortion is illegal, then it still exists for women who don’t want guys like you to have their grubby hands in their uteri.
Artemis, I think Sydney made an excellent post regarding this at 2:32 PM. You must have missed it.
Oh, and Stephanie. As far as lucidity, you might want to check out the rants of those “sidewalk counselors” who harass women going into Planned Parenthood. I have an advanced degree in counseling and screaming at women isn’t exactly the best environment for a counseling session. Not only do they scream; but they try to push pamphlets into their hands as well as strange fetus tchotkes. You aren’t winning minds and hearts here. But abortion is muuurddderrr. Yeah, whatever.
Remember the “Life. What a beautiful choice.” ads? They went ballistic over those, too. Anything that paints having a child in less than ideal circumstances as a positive thing gives them apoplexy. Probably because they aborted in much less difficult circumstances, and other women’s triumph over greater adversity is proof that their own abortions weren’t necessary.
Artemis, I think Sydney made an excellent post regarding this at 2:32 PM. You must have missed it.
Posted by: bethany at January 30, 2010 6:18 PM
Syd’s post was a little strange – but typical. I asked him for some press reports regarding the headless fetuses; but he didn’t respond. But right, abortion has always been an option – but until Roe it was underground and anything sub rosa can be problematic. Let’s keep it safe and legal because driving it underground doesn’t, as Syd pointed, stop the “murder.”
Oh, and Stephanie. As far as lucidity, you might want to check out the rants of those “sidewalk counselors” who harass women going into Planned Parenthood. I have an advanced degree in counseling and screaming at women isn’t exactly the best environment for a counseling session. Not only do they scream; but they try to push pamphlets into their hands as well as strange fetus tchotkes. You aren’t winning minds and hearts here. But abortion is muuurddderrr. Yeah, whatever.
It’s amazing how many times I have heard pro-abortionists make this claim, and never have I seen a video proving this.
However, I have seen multiple videos of abortion supporters attacking peaceful pro-life protesters.
Are abortion clinics not equipped with video cameras where they can capture all of this evidence?
other women’s triumph over greater adversity is proof that their own abortions weren’t necessary.
Posted by: Christina at January 30, 2010 6:22 PM
More “projections.” Sad, really. But if that’s what “floats yer boat,” go for it. Lots of women had abortions – lots of women don’t regret it for a minute. Deal with it.
Syd’s post was a little strange – but typical. I asked him for some press reports regarding the headless fetuses; but he didn’t respond. But right, abortion has always been an option – but until Roe it was underground and anything sub rosa can be problematic. Let’s keep it safe and legal because driving it underground doesn’t, as Syd pointed, stop the “murder.”
Sydney quickly provided you with clear, accurate photos of what she claimed. The sources for these photos is documented and available online.
Lots of women had abortions – lots of women don’t regret it for a minute. Deal with it.
Lots of men rape women. Lots of men don’t regret it for a minute. Deal with it.
Posted by: bethany at January 30, 2010 6:30 PM
Rape is against the law. Abortion isn’t. Deal with it.
Rape is against the law. Abortion isn’t. Deal with it.
Slavery used to be against the law. Many people owned slaves and beat them. Legally. Many people didn’t regret it for a minute. Deal with it.
should have read, “slavery used to NOT be against the law.”
Posted by: bethany at January 30, 2010 6:33 PM
Slavery involved fully acutualized human beings separate and apart. Abortion deals with “potential life” inside and dependant on the body of another Deal with it.
Slavery involved fully acutualized human beings separate and apart. Abortion deals with “potential life” inside and dependant on the body of another Deal with it.
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 6:36 PM
rubbish!
prove that these unborn children are “potential life”
and what the hell does that phrase mean anyway?
either something is alive or it is dead.
Prohibiting every crime drives it underground. Every law in history has been violated by someone. So what?
The question is not whether the law will be violated but whether the activity in question is a crime or not.
We don’t allow unspeakable crimes like murder, rape and armed robbery because people will “do it anyway”.
We should not allow an unspeakable crime like killing unborn children simply because some mothers, fathers and criminal abortionists will break the law.
Artemis: “Abortion deals with ‘potential life’ inside and dependant on the body of another Deal with it.”
Let us know when you meet up with your first biology textbook. A human being’s life begins at fertilization, and you don’t need to be a higher power to comprehend that scientific fact.
By what grounds is a growing child “potential life” rather than life? When does he or she become alive? Birth is a rather silly answer. By that, a child born two months early is alive, but an identical child who is unborn is not alive. If anything, the unborn child has a better chance at a full and normal life. A child born at term would be alive, but a child who went past his due date would not be alive at nine months. In fact, anything but fertilization makes very little sense as the point when life begins, but the things most used by those in favor of abortion–birth, quickening, and viability–are inconsistent and unpredictable, and thus particularly poor choices.
If you truly feel the main issue is the dependence on the mother’s body, there is no reason for late abortion–if mom wants baby out and her body back, deliver the baby early and give him or her a chance. But you’ve already stated your support of that choice.
Also, in circumstances where the woman consented to the act which created the child, she has already made a choice, and the baby had none. Not very pro-choice if you ask me. Myself, I’m pro-choice on lots of things–taxes, religion, boxers or briefs, paper or plastic–just not baby-murder. I’ve also noticed that if those who are pro-choice on murdering babies think there might not be enough or any doctors or pharmacists willing to assist them in killing their child or children, they want to make sure that those professionals either can’t choose to refuse complicity in murder or can’t choose to enter or stay in their chosen field. I wonder if that’s why I’m having so much trouble exercising my choice in finding a doctor who respects life from the beginning. But, of course, you don’t care whether I have that choice.
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 6:08 PM
“But here’s the thing, Ken, you can keep killing the abortion doctors but until the law of the land says that abortion is illegal, then it still exists for women who don’t want guys like you to have their grubby hands in their uteri.”
—————————————————-
arttheemistaken…..again,
Maybe your use of the ‘you’ as in ‘you can keep killing’ is a general ‘you’ as in every person who has ever killed an abortionist or maybe you menat to include every pro-lifer in your indictment. Either way, ‘I’ have never killed an abortionist.
The only person whose murder I was complicit in was my own son.
Are you sure you want to go there, because if you do it will not go well for your ownn emotional welfare.
“women who don’t want guys like you to have their grubby hands in their uteri.”
I do not have a college education so I could be misaken about female anatomy, but I am fairly certain the only way I could get my hands in a woman’s uterus would be if I was an abortionist and there are plenty of women, including you, who want exactly that.
Though I sometimes have ‘grubby hands, I am but a humble mechanic and the only blood on my hands is my own, one of the hazards of the trade.
Who’s bloold is on your hands?
yor bro ken
knock..knock..
Artemis,
You still haven’t answered my post @3:55
Bethany…you are hot today!!!
arttheelivid,
Are you sure you want to keep comparing resumés with me.
You are only making yourself look worse than you really are.
To understand the context of the photos you would have to read the comments of The View co-host Joy Behar:
“[H]e [Tim Tebow] could just as easily become some kind of a rapist pedophile.”
explaining “[t]he only argument” against CBS airing an ad during the Super Bowl featuring Tim and Pam Tebow telling her story of being counseled to abort Tim, who grew to become a Heisman Trophy winner, during a life-threatening pregnancy and choosing not to.
How do you think the leftist feministas would have reacted if some one suggested that Stanley Ann Dunham’s son could have just as easliy become some bumbling buffoon of a president like Jimmy Carter?
But wait all indications prove that to be a false statement.
B.O. is exceeding Jimmy Carter in his ineptness and blundering.
But thankfully Joy Behar is your bigot, not ours.
She represents you and not us.
yor bro ken
arttheeheeheeheehee,
When your mother was pregnant with you what species of embryo/fetus was present in her uterus?
I know you were just an embryo but Helen Reddy says you were still a woman and you could ‘roar’.
yor bro ken
Artemis,
“And Dr. Nadal. You have an impressive CV. But that your are loyal to the regressive “Magesterium” is interesting. As an ardent champion of the “pro-life” movement, you are a minority in the scientific community. Science should not be chained to religious dogma; but if that’s what you chose to believe, go for it.”
The human identity of the zygote is a well-established FACT in the scientific community. See these post from my blog with quote after quote from the texts:
http://gerardnadal.com/2010/01/07/more-from-the-scientific-community-on-the-identity-and-status-of-the-human-embryo/
http://gerardnadal.com/2010/01/05/the-identity-and-status-of-the-human-embryo/
Where scientists depart is at the brink of insanity. After identifying the species of the embryo as human, beginning at the zygotic stage, and after identifying that embryo as a separate and distinct human organism, they then begin drawing arbitrary lines in the sand relative to what developmental criteria qualify that new human organism for PERSONHOOD STATUS. Such a status is a legal and moral status describing the rights accorded to an organism based upon the KIND of organism it is-e.g. human vs. nonhuman.
As such, scientists are not trained in matters moral and ethical, save for one seminar or course in graduate school which more deals with regulatory affairs than actual discussions of metaphysics, theology and jurisprudence.
And that’s where the Magisterium of the Catholic Church excels.
I agree that science ought not be chained to religious dogma. It isn’t. Nor should science chain itself to genocidal institutions such as the abortion industry.
Science has spoken consistently and well on the organismal and species identity of the human embryo and fetus. They chain themselves to shameful ignorance and pride when they then pronounce in areas where they are not trained:
Philosophy
Ethics
Theology
Law
As a theologically and philosophically trained scientist, I make these assertions from the depths of training in all three disciplines that I have pursued for over 24 years.
arttheeheeheeheehee,
If Gerards comments are too complex for you to understand, read my abreviated version.
Even a fifth grader is smart enoght to understand.
yor bro ken
Aww thanks Sandy! BTW, I appreciated your post at 3:55 very much! :)
Slavery involved fully acutualized human beings separate and apart. Abortion deals with “potential life” inside and dependant on the body of another Deal with it.
“Fully actualized” LOL
I think that slave owners in the day would have disagreed with you on that. It was legal and it wouldn’t have mattered how many times you said a slave was a person – you think they would have agreed with you? Slaves were considered to be only 3/5 of a person on exactly the same kind of arbitrary criteria as you use on the unborn child for being a “non person”. How would you have convinced someone of that day who maintained that slaves were non -persons that slaves were “fully actualized” persons?
Artemis, I ugh, clearly stated I was a mom. that would mean I am female. Use that master’s degree much?
I already posted the link, but here it is again. I know how easy it is to skip over parts of the debate you can’t win so I am more than willing to oblige you.
http://www.abortionno.org/index.php/abortion_pictures/image_full/238/
Sydney,
A fool convinced against her will is of the same opinion still.
For artemissesthemark to concede the obvious would mean that she would have to take responsibility for not only what she has done to her own child, but for all the other children’s deaths she with whom she has been complicit.
No arguement no matter how truthfull and perfectly crafted will be able to de-construct the impenetrable walls she has erected in her heart and soul to protect her from her own guilt.
Only the gentli and powerful revelation of a loving GOD can liberate her from the prison of her own making.
I should know. HE set me free.
yor bro ken
“I agree that science ought not be chained to religious dogma. It isn’t. Nor should science chain itself to genocidal institutions such as the abortion industry.”
Go, Gerard!!
Baby Shanice was killed outside the womb! Deal with it! RJ
Posted by: Artemis at January 30, 2010 2:04 PM
“Other than providing a crib and some diapers, the local “right to life” didn’t have anything elso to offer.
But that’s pretty standard.
They don’t have infinite resources.”
————————————————–
arttheemeasily,
I will infer an implication from your assertion that ‘pro-lifers don’t have ‘infinite’ resouces, that liberal beaurecrats, such as yourself, assume that your resources ‘ARE’ infinite, because you have the power of the state at your disposal to reach into our paychecks and extract our money to salve your conscience.
If you would restrain yourself to spending only that money which you donate yourself and/or receive from willing benefactors, then we pro-lifers and conservatives would have more disposable income to invest in our families and in the people and institutions we choose. [You know as in freedom of ‘choice’.]
It would be far more effective and far more efficient and the institutions would be far more accountable to us in the way the money was used.
If I have both the liberty and the ability to give as I see fit then I also have the liberty and the power to withhold as I see fit.
That is a powerful incentive to the both the institutions and the individuals to whom I choose to contribute to be careful how they disperse the resources with which they have been entrusted.
yor bro ken
So how was abortion even an option for Mrs. Tebow since all forms of abortion have been illegal in the Phillipines since 1930? Just curious…
I’m sure they would have just told her to fly to the States and have one. This is not as big a deal as it’s being made out to be.
Many people simply could not live without their Chi straightening their hair would be crazy! That versatility, ease of use and great price means that this straightener hair is very popular and will probably continue for some time to come. The Chi straightening tends to be slightly less expensive than other flat irons, but it still ranks in the top ten best hair straighteners, making it an excellent purchase.
http://www.chihairstraightener.biz
Ann Marie,
Swear that was going to be my post but I’ve been so enjoying
this thread that I didn’t get it done before you. Ha!
Ken, you are on a real roll . . .
Hey Chi,
You pro life? One gets lots more customers if they
are allowed to escape the womb!
Don’t you just love it how African American women in these pro abortion groups (as shown on the video clips) belong to organizations that promote a practice that was introduced in the early part of the last century as a method of reducing the African American population as well as other “undesirables” – and where most “family planning” clinics or abortuaries are in inner city minority neighborhoods where African Americans live. If that is not a self hating culture of death with a death wish – I don’t know what is!
And you know there are a lot of African American clergy that vote Democrat and are actually on the board of these so called womens reproductive right organizations.
ycw– by saying that the peta ad is reprehensible for making fun of the duggers, the website you so callously refer to is, in fact, supporting her choice to have her many children. take a look at the other article i posted as well. choice isnt about forcing women to have abortions, it is about respecting all woments reproductive freedom and making services (from contraception to abortion to prenatal care to POSTnatal care) available so women can actually exercise their rights to their own bodies.
anti-choice, “pro-life” people are the ones reprimanding others for the way they live their lives and the choices they make with regard to reproduction. make no mistake, it is NOT the other way around.
l:
If you don’t want to call me “pro-life,” fine. I will gladly accept anti-choice-to-kill-babies or pro-fetal-rights.
I posted earlier about how I don’t have the “choice” to have a health care provider for my unborn children who recognizes their right to life. I am less likely to seek care because I don’t feel I can trust my doctors. But I’m not demanding that a pro-life doctor be magically provided to me, because I believe that everyone has a right to their own beliefs, though I don’t always believe it should be legal to act on them. And about how those who are pro-choice on murdering children often want to restrict the choices of doctors and pharmacists–either their choice to enter those fields or their choice to not be complicit in the murder of children. And then there’s the children–they don’t get a whole lot of choice either, do they? And then there’s how much respect there is for parents who choose not to have their children receive vaccines created using the bodies of other children who were murdered.
I do believe that every child deserves competent medical care. I believe this right begins at fertilization. But it seems that more so-called “doctors” are interested in the value of children for medical experiments than their value even as “potential life” for the first week or so.
If it’s about women deciding what to do with their bodies, and not about the unborn human person, why is embryo research okay? Those human beings are separate and “independent.” Why not insist that they be given to women willing to bring them to term whenever possible?
I have never claimed that I considered all choices equal or even good. I have never claimed to be pro-choice on whether it’s okay for a woman to have her unborn child removed partway from her uterus, stabbed in the back of the skull with scissors, and have his or her brain removed. I do criticize the choices of those who choose such an option, and I do it without shame or reservation. Whether someone chooses to reproduce or not is up to them. I am fine with non-abortive forms of contraception (male pill, condom, diaphragm, spermicide) being legal and available. I would never use them or recommend them, but I don’t want to restrict access to them. I am actually “pro-choice” on most issues; I lean libertarian.
I missed the part where the pro-choice-to-kill-babies crowd said the ad about the Duggars was reprehensible, or that they supported Michelle’s right to make the choices she did. Please point it out more specifically. Any time there is a main-stream-media article about the Duggars, there are all sorts of comments about how they are horrible people. My suspicion is that the Duggar-haters just didn’t come out because it was buried in such a large post and other posts (http://jezebel.com/5424247/hey-nineteen)
(http://jezebel.com/5356506/is-a-womans-body-made-for-19-kids) (http://jezebel.com/5350154/hey-nineteen) (http://jezebel.com/5114470/fertility-field-guide-debunking-the-duggars) are where they got out their Duggar hate. Because if you suggest that her choices are poorly motivated, that there’s something wrong with the way she thinks, that her body wasn’t meant to do what it is doing, that somehow her decisions are not her own–why can’t we posit those same things about women who choose to kill their children?
Did you know that 70 percent of blind people in this contry, are not employed, or under employed? What do you think about this? John MCCane a repubolican, and Criss Dod a Demacrat, are trying to change that. Google The blind persons to work act of 2010 and you’ll see what I’m talking about. RJ
“And Dr. Nadal. You have an impressive CV. But that your are loyal to the regressive “Magesterium” is interesting. As an ardent champion of the “pro-life” movement, you are a minority in the scientific community. Science should not be chained to religious dogma; but if that’s what you chose to believe, go for it.”
OH. My. Goodness.!!
Do you even think for yourself, A?
Did you KNOW that the Catholic church’s encyclical, Humanae Vitae predicted all of the fallout we are now seeing from the so-called sexual revolution?
It so happens that FACT supports FAITH in the instance of human unborn babies being “fully actualized” persons.
Whatever “fully actualized” means.
Good point, Bethany. :)
Ycw,
http://jezebel.com/5114470/fertility-field-guide-debunking-the-duggars
Wow, that Jezebel site sounds so supportive of the Duggars in that post, doesn’t it? I wonder how they think that post is any less offensive than the PETA ad?
YCW:
You “lean libertarian”?
I am a libertarian. I also like the arguments you make with regard to the rights of the unborn. You really know how to cut through abortionist fallacies.
In which part of the country are you located?
the jezebel website is strange:
Using words like “spawning” for bearing children. uh huh.
The comments are pretty interesting though.
Yes, Christians sell their daughters into slavery.
And to link the birth of a child with the starvation of another is reprehensible.
What about getting Bill Gates and Oprah to spread around all their wealth?
And while I don’t necessarily agree in total with all of the Quiverfull movement’s ideas, I do support their right to have the children they want – even if it’s 15 or 20.
By the way, the Washington Post has a guest column in the Sunday paper today written by Kate Michaelman (formerly of NARAL) and Frances Kissling (formerly of “Catholics” For “Choice”) commenting on the Tim Tebow Super Bowl ad.
It is, of course, loaded with abortionist doublespeak and fallacies (as it would have to be), but it makes an interesting read.
Perhaps Jill would like to write a quick piece on it.
I am planning to send in a letter to the editor responding to it, but I doubt it will be printed. The WaPo does not like hard hitting letters in support of the unborn.
Wow, a lot of comments here…
First of all, I think we need to separate out a few things.
The work of PP and the work of those who deal with those receiving government assistance are separate issues. I support there being a base level of assistance available to families who find themselves in dire situations.
In times past, welfare moms made a lifelong and multigenerational “living” (if you could call it that, but they were willing to live on minimum resources as long as they didn’t have to do anything for it) off of the system.
Now, however, it is very true that in order to receive or continue receiving benefits, the participants must be working towards moving themselves off of the system and there are time limits involved.
With those new requirements in place, I wholeheartedly respect and appreciate the efforts of those working to help low-income families (mostly headed by women) to achieve self-reliance through effort and further education.
Artemis, for your role in that position in our society, I thank you.
In regards to the woman in the clip above with O’Reilly, however, she definitely speaks to the mindset of many (I’m sure not all) of the “pro-choice” crowd who find that any mention of someone “choosing” life is offensive. I believe that if the “pro-choice” crowd wanted positive press and to change the impression (that they claim is false) that they are merely pro-abort, not pro-choice, they should have come out in FAVOR of this ad, making the statement publicly through multiple news outlets that they are thrilled that Mrs. Tebow was able to exercise her choice and that it turned out to be such a positive one. If they said nothing but that, it would go a long way towards causing many Americans who really don’t have an opinion on this topic to remain personally undecided but politically pro-choice. The “well, I don’t think I could do it but I want the choice to remain available” crowd, if you will.
Artemis, you would have a bit more believability here if you didn’t make it sound as if pro-life groups were out to make life harder for the little girl in question… the fact that they gave what they had, no matter how little it may have been, does not indicate that they were in any way hard of heart towards her or her situation.
As has been pointed out, in your official capacity you have access to tax dollars that CPCs don’t have. And PP has access to many of our tax dollars to push their viewpoint. I would be happy merely to see PP have to stand on their own two feet… they are just as much an advocacy group as any CPC and do not deserve my tax money. I would far rather choose for myself (that pesky choice word that too often means choice for thee but not for me) where my dollars go in terms of social agenda and would love to give those dollars to a CPC had the government not confiscated and given them to PP….
If you click all the way through until you get to the PETA blog itself the following comments are listed:
those people should spay and neuter themselves. this behavior is NOT sustainable.
Posted by: jen
omg, I’m sorry but I really REALLY hate people who have a lot of kids. What is their problem? people who think it’s a good idea to do that don’t realize what they’re getting themselves into. And yes, the billboard is completely true and I hope they see it
Posted by: dratini
People overpopulation causes far more problems then dog, cat or other companion animal overpopulation.
Therefore, it be nice if these Duggars would also be spayed and neutered.
They do seem to share common properties with our unaltered companion animals:
– They lack the intelligence to use birth control, such as condoms.
– They breed regularly and continuously without being responsible enough to stop.
– Their minds are too primitive to think of the consequences of overpopulation.
Posted by: Ms. Stolte
Love the billboard idea, but hate what the Duggars are doing. Such behavior is not environmentally sustainable, and a lot of their family practices (such as making some of the children responsible for the care of others) are quite reprehensible ( i mean, they are denying the older children a proper childhood when they essentially force parenthood on them).
Just my thoughts. I think the world would be a better place if each couple had no more than 2 children. Enough to replace them in society without increasing the overpopulation problems facing the world today. Note, however, that I do not think we should FORCE anyone to do this, just that I think people should be educated enough to choose this for themselves.
Posted by: Alyssa
Yes, that’s so positive… ick.
I think the world would be a better place if each couple had no more than 2 children. Enough to replace them in society without increasing the overpopulation problems facing the world today. Note, however, that I do not think we should FORCE anyone to do this, just that I think people should be educated enough to choose this for themselves.
Posted by: Alyssa
I think the word Alyssa is misusing here is “educated”
Maybe she should substitute “brainwashed”.
Ah, well, as I’m still waiting for the appropriate time frame to determine if I’ve acquired a particularly long-acting non-febrile version of the stomach flu or perhaps little one number eight is on the way…. I’m sure I would not be a favorite of any of those particular posters.
Because of course, the fact that my children are well-cared for, supported without tax dollars, loving and giving, perform many hours of volunteer service each year, and have less of a carbon footprint than many of my friends’ families who have only one or two due to our environmental practices…. yup… we’re obviously just too stupid to use a condom….
The positive thing is that in a few generations we will definitely outnumber them!
Yeah, the pro-death crowd is going nuts over this one. Too bad! Have they forgotten it’s a free country and that all must see it their way? Joy Behar is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. The woman is a lunatic. At least Ron Paul argued her down in an abortion debate on the view, and she did HAVE TO admit, “Well, that’s murder.”….when an 8 month old fetus is killed in an abortion. Whoopi maintained ” the right to choose” stance. I hear Kirsti Ally wants to bash Joy in the face. Not sure why. I’m sure she’d have to take a number on that one.:]
Not in the face… here’s the quote:
“and WHY has Joy Behar turned into such a self righteous cooz head? OOOOooo that’s right…..FOREVER!!!,” Kirstie tweeted earlier this month. “CHEATING is between a husband and wife. Not TMZ and Joy Bewhore…God, I want to bash her in the vagina with her microphone.”
Not sure how stable Kirstie is these days either, although I agree with her about Joy Behar
What Tim Tebow’s Super Bowl ad can teach the pro-choice movement
By Frances Kissling and Kate Michelman
Sunday, January 31, 2010
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/29/AR2010012902505.html
“So here’s our Super Bowl strategy for the choice movement. We’d go with a 30-second spot, too. The camera focuses on one woman after another, posed in the situations of daily life: rushing out the door in the morning for work, flipping through a magazine, washing dishes, teaching a class of sixth-graders, wheeling a baby stroller. Each woman looks calmly into the camera and describes her different and successful choice:
having a baby and giving it up for adoption,
having an abortion,
having a baby and raising it lovingly.
Each one being clear that making choices isn’t easy, but that life without tough choices doesn’t exist.”
————————————————–
mss Kissling and Michelman,
In the second of the three proposed ‘choices’, what became of the baby?
Are you so blinded by your chauvinism that you would attempt to equate the three outcomes?
And you need to have at least one more woman on whom the camera focuses.
The post abortent mother who has lost one or both breasts and has been emaciated by the chemo therapy, lying in her lovely pink upholstered coffin.
yor bro ken
more from the champions of ‘choice’:
“We have seen a dramatic shift in attitudes toward “pro-life” and “pro-choice.” In 1995 Gallup asked respondents for the first time whether they considered themselves “to be pro-choice or pro-life.” Only 33 percent took on the pro-life label. In 2009, 51 percent considered themselves pro-life, and pro-choice had dropped from a high of 56 percent to 44 percent.
Neither movement can take full credit or blame for the change.
[Well the ‘dead babies r us’ folks cannot take any credit for educating the public about the humanity of the pre-natal child. Most that responsibility has fallen at the feet of ‘pro-lifers’.]
Science played a big role, making the [HUMAN]fetus more visible [and more obviously a human being].
[It is not the scientists who are carrying placards containing color photos of pre-natal children or paying for full page photo spreads in the nations newspapers and is not the ‘dead babies r us’ folks.]
Today, the first picture in most baby books is the 12-week 3D ultrasound,
and Grandma and Grandpa have that photo posted on the fridge.
[I wonder if Grandma and Grandpa keep photos of the ‘grand fetus’ (before he/she was aborted) posted on the fridge.]
We read about successful [human] fetal surgery;
[If you asked the surgeon who his primary patient is during that procedure, how would she/he respond?]
we don’t read about women dying in pools of blood on their bathroom floors after botched abortions, as we did when the procedure was illegal.
[No, now we read about women dying in pools of blood in the abortionists office after the butcher has botched the ‘legal’ procedure.]”
—————————————————
mss Kissling and Michelman,
Please run that ad.
Even without my corrections and additions.
We pro-lifers will continue to correct your misinformation on our own nickel.
yor bro ken
Ken, you bring up an interesting point. My cousin, apparently suffering from a lack of media interest since her dismissal from Fox News last year, went on The View (I could kill her for this!) to announce her decision to have a radical double mastectomy due to the fact that our grandmother, my mother and her mother all had breast cancer.
What she fails to mention is: 1)No female in our family has ever died of breast cancer (the spot implies both our grandmother and my mother, who is still alive, died of breast cancer); and 2)she tested negative for the breast cancer gene mutations and has had not a single suspicious mammogram. A very radical decision based upon basing one’s life around fear.
In fact, I’m a little surprised she found a surgeon willing to do it (although money can buy pretty much anything) because the guidelines for the surgery are two first degree relatives with breast cancer. My mother and our grandmother are considered second degree relatives. She may have convinced a doctor based on her father having prostate cancer and feeling that was a link….
Which brings up my next point. Where does it stop? If she feels genetically susceptible, all of the genetic causes that raise your risk of breast cancer also raise your risk of ovarian, uterine and colon cancer. Is she going to have all of those removed, too? Frankly, ovarian cancer is far scarier than breast cancer these days as it is so difficult to detect and by the time they find it treatment is so ineffectual.
And of course, she doesn’t look at any of the commonsense methods of lowering one’s risk of breast cancer. Breastfeeding, having children, NOT having abortions, eating properly and getting exercise ALL have effects on breast cancer rates. None of them pose the risk of going under the knife.
Elisabeth,
Well put. I hope your sister finds the healing delievrance and restoration she so desperately needs.
I agree with your assessment. Her decision is motivated primarily by fear, not caution. She is also craving attention.
Humans are stupid. I should know. I am one of them.
Forgive me for the bluntness of my rhetoric. I am not insensitive to women and their families who have endured the struggle against breast cancer with them.
yor bro ken
Elisabeth, thank you for clarifying that quote for me! Yeah, Behar needs her mouth taped shut! I really almost pity the lady. Ken, how true! Also, Christina Applegate[actress] had a double mastectomy [breast cancer which is also hereditary in her family, and she was stricken with the illness} Now she is doing adds for Susan Komen. Too bad they fail to recognize the abortion/breast cancer link.
Just for clarification… my cousin. I do understand what it’s like to grow up under the shadow of cancer. My mother has had three separate cancers… malignant melanoma, thyroid, and then the latest was breast cancer.
Because my mother is a fanatic about exercise and eating right she did VERY well after all surgeries. She chose against chemo/radiation after her breast cancer surgery and after a partial course of Tamoxifen (which she eventually could not tolerate taking) and high dose vitamin C therapy she has been cancer free for about 8 years now.
I was nine when my mother developed the melanoma. I can kind of understand Applegate’s stance… she actually HAD cancer. If I were to develop breast cancer I would do just like my mother… surgically remove anything that needs to go and then high dose vitamin c and other nutritional therapy, MAYBE tamoxifen. I’ve put a lot of thought into this after growing up with it.
My cousin? Honestly, I can’t understand what she’s doing or why. If it makes her feel better, fine, I guess… but it seems unjustified according to standard medical protocols.
Re; Applegate…I understand it too.
CBS News legal analyst Jan Crawford has written an article on the CBS News blog criticizing the pro-abortion campaign, saying, “According to the women’s rights groups, Pam Tebow shouldn’t be able to talk about her choice.” Crawford adds: “They won’t even allow the discussion. And that shows just how much the issue of abortion has been taken out of public discourse. Because of the Supreme Court’s ruling in Roe v. Wade, you can’t even talk about it. That point of view is not allowed to exist.”
Good – lets get the debate out in public. Lets talk about what abortion REALLY is.
second interesting item about this ad:
But the pro-abortion National Organization for Women (NOW) and company are continuing to pursue the matter full-steam ahead, with headline-grabbing feminist lawyer Gloria Allred now trying to bring down the ad with the threat of legal action and claims that the Tebows’ story is untrue.
In a letter to Les Moonves of CBS, available at RadarOnline.com, Allred says she wants the ad pulled because it is allegedly guilty of “misleading advertising.”
Allred, who has not seen the ad, charges that when Tebow’s mother was being advised by doctors in the Philippines to consider an abortion, it was illegal there to have one. Allred says that the ad should disclose this information, otherwise it is “misleading.” She implies that Tebow’s mother has in fact falsified the story of her son’s birth, referring to the story as the “purported story.”
“If this ad airs and fails to disclose that abortions were illegal at the time that Ms. Tebow made her ‘choice’, then I intend to file a formal complaint of misleading advertising with those federal commissions,” Allred concludes.
whether abortion was illegal in the Philippines then is irrelevant.
the FACT is that Tim’s mother was offerred an abortion just the same as my mother was offered an abortion for one of my siblings due to danger to her health.
In both cases, the mothers chose life.
We all know that abortions were done in hospitals even though they were illegal.
In these times, abortion WAS rare and illegal.
Michelman, Kissling and other women’s “rights” advocates should run a Super Bowl ad stating the following:
“We believe in killing ALL women in the unborn stage.”
That would nicely sum up their abortionist mentality.
Even if abortion were illegal in the Phillipines at that time, exceptions may have been made for the life of the mother. Otherwise, why would the doctor even recommend it? Was Mrs.Tebow living on a military base? Could she have been flown to the US because of medical concerns?
Exactly what is the story?
who cares Mary? The point is that she was offered the abortion and she chose life.
That is the point.
Ms Allred, simply doesn’t want the prolife message told. Period.
There is only one CHOICE that is acceptable to people like Gloria.
That choice is abortion.
To chose LIFE is always the WRONG choice to these evil evil women. :(
Hi Angel,
I only question it because Allred and others brought up that abortion was not legal in the Phillipines.
This argument has no basis if abortion was allowed under Filipino law to save the woman’s life. If it wasn’t, would Mrs.Tebow have had to fly to the US or did she live on a military base with access to American military health care?
All I want to do is get the facts straight and point out that the Phillipine law argument may be an invalid one.
Below is the information from the Philippine Penal Code book:
Art. 256. Intentional abortion. — Any person who shall intentionally cause an abortion shall suffer:
1. The penalty of reclusion temporal, if he shall use any violence upon the person of the pregnant woman.
2. The penalty of prision mayor if, without using violence, he shall act without the consent of the woman.
3. The penalty of prision correccional in its medium and maximum periods, if the woman shall have consented.
Art. 257. Unintentional abortion. — The penalty of prision correccional in its minimum and medium period shall be imposed upon any person who shall cause an abortion by violence, but unintentionally.
Art. 258. Abortion practiced by the woman herself of by her parents. — The penalty of prision correccional in its medium and maximum periods shall be imposed upon a woman who shall practice abortion upon herself or shall consent that any other person should do so.
Any woman who shall commit this offense to conceal her dishonor, shall suffer the penalty of prision correccional in its minimum and medium periods.
If this crime be committed by the parents of the pregnant woman or either of them, and they act with the consent of said woman for the purpose of concealing her dishonor, the offenders shall suffer the penalty of prision correccional in its medium and maximum periods.
Art. 259. Abortion practiced by a physician or midwife and dispensing of abortives. — The penalties provided in Article 256 shall be imposed in its maximum period, respectively, upon any physician or midwife who, taking advantage of their scientific knowledge or skill, shall cause an abortion or assist in causing the same.
Any pharmacist who, without the proper prescription from a physician, shall dispense any abortive shall suffer arresto mayor and a fine not exceeding 1,000 pesos.
However, to my mind it simply doesn’t matter what the law says.
Abortion was illegal in the 1950’s and yet my mother was offered an abortion by her doctor. In fact, she was pressured to abort my sibling. She did not because another doctor came forward to encourage her that she would indeed survive the pregnancy. She did. :)
There are illegal abortions in the Philippines.
Would someone ask these obnoxious pro-aborts about their own past abortions? They need to come to terms with their past, one way or another. The million dollar question: Why are you so defensive about abortion???
Angel,
Thank you.
Abortion was illegal in the 1950s yet exceptions were made for the life of the mother. Some states also made exceptions for rape, incest, and fetal defect, which was not easily or always accurately diagnosed at that time. Y
I’m thankful things went well for your mother. Her doctor may have in fact exercised what he thought the best judgment, being there was not the technology or diagnostic tools that are available today.
I’m still curious as to what Mrs.Tebow’s circumstances in the Phillipines were. Was she a military wife? Was she the American wife of an overseas employee, A Filipino citizen?
This would determine whose laws she was subject to.
Curious. Is MZZZ. Allred implying that when abortions are illegal, they don’t happen?
Why, I DO declare, she has painted hersef into a quite a corner…(snicker)
Mary here is a brief over view of Pam Tebows experience.
—————————————————
http://drewfarr.com/2009/07/04/pam-tebows-story/
Pam and Bob Tebow were serving as missionaries in the Philippines when Pam became very ill.
Somehow, she contracted amoebic dysentery which caused her to fall into a coma. As she was being treating with strong antibiotics, doctors discovered that she was pregnant. They urged her to abort the baby, explaining the medicines had caused irreversible damage. She refused the abortion.
The doctors “didn’t think of it as a life, they thought of it as a mass of fetal tissue,” Pam said. While pregnant, Pam nearly lost their baby four times but refused to consider abortion. She recalled making a pledge to God with her husband, ”If you will give us a son, we’ll name him ‘Timothy,’ and we’ll make him a preacher.” Pam ultimately spent the last two months of her pregnancy in bed and, eventually, gave birth to a health baby boy August 14, 1987. And her baby boy has indeed become a preacher – in prisons, in hospitals, and around the globe. But he also plays football.
—————————————————-
Not only did Pam NOT ‘choice’ her child, she made a covenant with
GOD
to name her child Timothy
and [shudder all you progressive liberal humanists and pagans]
to train hm to be a ‘preacher’.
[And all the pagans and humanists alike shouted in unison, “satan save us!]
————————————————-
Wait Pam’s husband and Tim’s father Bob has his side of the story to tell.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1158168/index.htm
The man on the other end of the line is calling from the Philippines. He has taken time from his missionary work to reply to a reporter’s e-mailed questions. Now Bob Tebow has a question of his own: “Have you heard the story of Timmy’s birth?”
Even if you have, it’s worth hearing from the mouth of his father: “When I was out in the mountains in Mindanao, back in ’86, I was showing a film and preaching that night. I was weeping over the millions of babies being [aborted] in America, and I prayed, ‘God, if you give me a son, if you give me Timmy, I’ll raise him to be a preacher.'” Not long after, Bob and Pam Tebow conceived their fifth child. It was a very difficult pregnancy. “The placenta was never properly attached, and there was bleeding from the get-go,” Bob recalls. “We thought we’d lost him several times.” Early in the pregnancy Pam contracted amebic dysentery, which briefly put her in a coma. Her doctors, fearful that medications they had given her had damaged the fetus, advised her to abort it. She refused, and on Aug. 14, 1987, Pam delivered a healthy if somewhat scrawny Timothy Richard Tebow.
“All his life, from the moment he could understand, I told him, ‘You’re a miracle baby,'” Bob recalls. “‘God’s got a purpose for you, and at some point I think He’s going to call you to preach.’
“I asked God for a preacher, and he gave me a quarterback.”
The Tebows moved from the Philippines to Florida when Tim was three. He grew up country strong, doing chores on the family’s 44-acre spread outside Jacksonville. All five of the Tebow children were homeschooled by Pam, the daughter of an Army colonel. To meet Pam is to understand where Tim gets much of his mental toughness. Pam emphasized selflessness and compassion—lessons underscored during the kids’ annual summer visits to the Philippines, where they worked in their father’s ministry. Founded in 1985, the Bob Tebow Evangelistic Association boasts a staff of 45 Filipino pastors who have preached the Gospel to more than 15 million. The ministry has also helped start 10,000 churches and opened an orphanage that houses more than 50 children.
————————————————
Now, if you have just a little bit of discernment you will understand why the seed of the serpent is so apoplectic about the seed of the woman, particulary this woman and particularly this seed.
Pray for the Tebows this little skirmish is going to get nasty.
yor bro ken
One last parting shot:
“On July 21, in fact, Tebow and Williams planned to head to the Florida State Prison in aptly named Starke. There, Tebow hoped to be allowed to speak to the 30 or so prisoners awaiting execution. The more incorrigible the inmate, the more Tebow relishes the chance to save him. “Sometimes it’s those guys at rock bottom who are the ones looking for a change,” he explains. If Lawtey was an early-season nonconference opponent for Tebow, death row was akin to Death Valley, as LSU’s Tiger Stadium is known.
This is in keeping with his father’s disregard for danger in his quest to serve. Bob Tebow regularly takes his message to islands where he is not necessarily welcome. “I quit [reading] the State Department’s advisories a long time ago,” says the man who joked that he asked the Lord for a preacher and got a quarterback. The truth is, he got both.”
You go guys!
yor bro ken
Curious. Is MZZZ. Allred implying that when abortions are illegal, they don’t happen?
Why, I DO declare, she has painted hersef into a quite a corner…(snicker)
Posted by: Michelle a.k.a. PajamaMama at January 31, 2010 6:45 PM
Michelle, excellent point! I’d love the opportunity to see someone ask her that question, and her reply.
This is a small victory in a vast media war.
The ad will air. The tide is turning.
Life wins!
Where, oh where did Artemis go? Oh… right… Gerard is here! :)
I really do hope that Artemis does respond to Gerard. I’m looking forward to the answer.
Joe: I am in Massachusetts, believe it or not. My main reason for saying that I am not libertarian is that they are generally not pro-fetal-rights. Anything else is a minor issue.
Bethany: Yes, at 6:19 I included links to quite a few articles on that site that were very much not supportive of Michelle’s perfectly legal, personal, well-thought-out, informed choices. Not everyone was critical, and some are willing to extend tolerance in the name of being pro-choice–but certainly not the kind of unquestioning kowtowing to the strength, knowledge, wisdom, and decision-making abilities they would extend and expect us to extend to a scared, pregnant sixteen-year-old who, told by a PP representative her child is a clump of cells, decides to have the baby killed so her 25-year-old boyfriend won’t leave her.
Hmm — this black woman is prolife, and I decry the high rate of abortions among black women. There are quite a few of us out there, and the numbers are growing. Unfortunately, Artemis is right when she says SOME Republican politicans oppose programs for poor women and children. But I am not a Republican, I’m an Independent. I vote for the person whose views I most agree with, not their party.
YCW:
ALL Libertarians support unborn human rights. If you support the killing of human beings, you are not a libertarian.
The Libertarian Party supports killing unborn children and therefore is NOT a libertarian party.
Go to the website of Libertarians For Life (a true libertarian organization to find out more):
http://WWW.L4L.ORG
By the way, I live in a very blue state (Maryland) and an ultra blue county (Montgomery). I know how you must feel.
Segamon,
I too look forward to Artemis responding. Let’s hope all is well and that our friend returns soon.
Curious. Is MZZZ. Allred implying that when abortions are illegal, they don’t happen?
Why, I DO declare, she has painted hersef into a quite a corner…(snicker)
Posted by: Michelle a.k.a. PajamaMama at January 31, 2010 6:45 PM
Michelle, excellent point! I’d love the opportunity to see someone ask her that question, and her reply.
Posted by: Bethany at January 31, 2010 8:34 PM
yes this does seem quite the contradiction?
I thought millions upon millions of women were dying whenever abortion is illegal?
Shouldn’t the situation be the same in the Philippines?
I wonder if we can sue Ms Allred for misinformation on abortion?
And thank you Mary. yes everything turned out fine for my mom and that sibling is an outstanding scientist today. :)
Joe: Great website–I love their arguments. Equating the prenatal support of children to child support is a wonderful idea, and something I had not thought of. I also liked the points that the parents had endangered the child (and thus are responsible for his/her dependent position), and that even an abortion by elective premature delivery must result from an act taken (essentially) against the child. (And a bit more eloquent than “she could have kept her legs shut.”)
Re: Allred. I don’t know if anyone knew this, but Allred is also a post abortive mom claiming that her own abortion followed a rape.
I agree with the other pro-lifers here. The “Pro -CHOICE” crowd is deserving of a new label. It’s called PRO-DEATH! Folks, they want death at ANY price!! Education, can’t be bothered, too young, too old, DS baby, want out of their relationship, save your figure, we’ll pay for it! It’s only a choice as long as your choice is death!