Now, we reached out to the fetus to see if he or she wanted to come on the show, but it did not say anything, because it does not have a mouth. But if it could talk, I’m pretty sure it would say, could you please get out of my mother’s uterus.
~MSNBC host Cenk Uygur commenting on the Ohio bill that would forbid abortions as soon as a baby’s heartbeat can be detected, Newsbusters, March 2
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Wow, I didn’t think it was possible to out creep Keith Olbermann, but this guy does exactly that. What a nasty man.
What a nasty man.
God help him.
Ditto what Zilla said.
I’m sure the baby would tell the abortionist, “Get out of my mother’s uterus!”
His last sentence at least is true! He didn’t mean it that way, but he’s right: the baby would say, “Get out of my mother’s uterus!”
I never knew having a mouth was the definition of personhood or the basis for bestowing rights. This guy’s a jerk.
Once again, not surprised. I heard that there were proaborts making light of them not being able to detect a heartbeat at the Ohio bill testimony. Now THAT is low.
uyghur? anybody willing to explain to him there are less uyghurs b/c of enthusiastic chinese abortionists? that he’ll never have a homeland to get hopped up about? never get to feel comfortable in a place where lots of people look like him and his cousins?
they abort 8/12 month old uyghur infants and throw them into boiling pots of water. al=jazeera thinks it’s messed up. if aljazeera thinks you are going to far….maybe…..you….might…..possibly…..want to rethink.
So it’s not a “baby”, but it has a mother.
Didn’t the mother of the baby volunteeer to have ultrasound footage used? Is he saying that what a fetus wants – or “wants” in his imaginary scenario - should triumph over what his or her mother wants?
Typical MSNBC trash. Nothing on that channel is worth watching.
they dont them mslsd for nothing losers
actually the mouth is already formed as teeth buds begin forming. We are the Voice for the Voiceless in the pro life movement.
the libs are really making themselves look dumber than usual-i didnt think it was possible good riddance to helen thomas and keith blowharderman as they hang themselves one by one
the entire abortion monster has spun out of control. abortion is a dirty word and i recall back when women were so ashamed they would whisper it. whatever happened to safe legal and rare….now instead of it being a sensitive issue we are mocking women and their dead babies. like the new signs “no fetus can beat us” or “hos before embryos” trash i say pure trash
I live in Ohio, and I think this law is sort of inane. First, being able to “detect” a heartbeat all depends–on your equipment, etc. The heart can be beating and the doctor might not be able to see it. Plus, how is that enforced? An abortion doctor can just lie and say they couldn’t find it. There won’t be anyone there to confirm that.
Shouldn’t matter if there’s a detectable heartbeat or not (though how would folks like it if we just banned abortions starting at the 3 week mark to be safe?).
Ashley, you’re right. The abortionist can lie, or the equipment can be less than ideal. And none of it should matter, imo, because a child is a human being from the moment of conception.
I think pushing laws like the heartbeat bill is more beneficial in exposing the humanity and development of the unborn child than it is in having any real practicality.
heather says:
March 4, 2011 at 9:42 am
the entire abortion monster has spun out of control. abortion is a dirty word and i recall back when women were so ashamed they would whisper it.
(Denise) In “Splendor in the Grass,” Deanie’s mother says of a local “bad girl” that “she had to have one of those awful operations.” She whispers this in a kind of horror. Deanie never needs that kind of operation but goes insane and loses 2 1/2 years to a mental hospital. That seemed to be what happened to girls in the past: the sexually active ones were brutalized through abortion or stays at the unwed mothers’ homes and the virtuous ones were repressed into insanity.
Right on, Ashley!
Personhood Now!!
Keep in mind that the bill doesn’t ban abortion when there IS a heartbeat, only when you can find one. It seems like a very arbitrary way to determine which babies you’re allowed to abort.
His attitude is so nasty and rude. Such an obvious lack of character, tact, and honor in his speech. His words were dripping with sarcasm.
If you ask me, he seems a little threatened by the idea of this tiny baby with a beating heart. Maybe he doesn’t want to face the reality of choices he’s made in his life…
hokay, heather. back up on your excitable passion for fiction being considered a documentary. Get ahold of your Stephanie Coontz. For that matter, grab the Caro Graglia.
Statistically- sexually active women married at a fairly high rate, even in the repressed fifties. if you need fiction, try back to the future, with the hottie teenage future mom. even in pilgrim times- knocked up brides were fairly normal, says Stephanie Coontz. I’ve seen family genealogies, mine and others, so I’m not sure she’s right, but still…..not your splendor…….
and repressed? are you kidding? statistically, even today, the highest satisfaction rates are reported amongst religious, married women with a minimal number of partners. Usually the daughters of what would now be called “over-protective, authoritarian” fathers. I’m counting on it, for my daughter.
As for sexually active, unrepressed….anybody seen the latest interviews with Lady Gaga? Or other girls? Ever read Tucker Max from the girls POV? These are not happy sex warriors. These are unhappy, preyed upon, vulnerable, sad young women.
Get real. Get real numbers. It’ll make for a more happy, more mindful, careful life.
ari
Well it’s easy to just make fun of your opponent’s arguments, I guess that is all you can do when you have nothing substantial to say. Scientific evidence has shown that the fetus is a human being. So abortion supporters have to try and mock and belittle that evidnece because they can’t refute the facts.
They were happy they couldn’t find a heartbeat? Isn’t that a sign of miscarriage? Classy.
Still, I thought the whole idea of “fetal testimony” was silly and weird…doing a live ultrasound on the House floor. I wouldn’t want to be that woman.
to the pro aborts say whaaaaaaaa
liberals so open minded their brains fell out
Even a one-two year old couldn’t “speak” Of course the baby has a mouth and my 7 year old has a mouth but doesn’t speak I know he is next on your list to say “Well, he can’t testify let’s kill him.”
Yep, if there is a “mother” it IS a “child”.
Fools~
Ecclesiastes 12:14
Don’t we wish Cenk Uygur didn’t have a mouth? As it is, he doesn’t have a BRAIN..not a WORKING one, anyway. ;)
This same person also commented on a Bill in Georgia which allows women to protect herself and her unborn baby, even if it meant killing the attacker. Him and the woman from Mother Jones Magazine said that it would allow women to kill abortionists and that it would overturn Roe Vs Wade. When is truth in media going to be restored?
it’s all in in the words. If this newsman just switched the word and said baby, it would sound so different. the only way we can live with ourselves is to call it a fetus, or mush or something. If they were truthful and called it what it truly is. When you go to the doctors and the doctor tells you your having a baby, your thrilled if you want it. But if you don’t want it, what does the doctor do, he calls the baby a fetus, they remove everything connected to making the baby personal. When you want a baby your friends all say when is your baby due, they don’t say, when is your little sweet fetus due. When we run out and get an ultra sound we show it to everyone and say, Look at my little baby! Am I right, now be honest with yourself. I know I am, I speak the truth and the truth is hard. We like to lie about this when we don’t want it. We need to get honest so we can combat this problem and stop killing babies and let them live and adopt them out and give them life if we feel we can’t raise them. If it was me, I would give my baby life.
in conclusion to what this newscaster said, the baby would say or should we say, Scream, Please don’t kill me, Mommy! Stop that doctor from hurting me.
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking..” -The Scarecrow from The Wizard of Oz
I’m starting to think if we just be quiet and let idiots like this one keep on ranting their insane dribble, they’ll win this war for us.
Hearbeat starts at 21 days, ie when the a woman with an average menstrual cycle is one week late for her period.
We do see women at our PRC who are less than a week late on their period, occasionally even before their period is due, but it’s probably not more than 10% of the time.
A human mouth is visible less than a week after the heart starts beating. So the baby that this guy is going on about DOES have a mouth at this stage in development.
Gender is determined AT CONCEPTION. Just because “we can’t tell” if it’s a girl or boy yet without invasive testing, that human being is already male or female, according to their DNA.
At my PRC, we fairly reliably pick up heartbeats from embryos in their fifth week of life- when the mother’s menstrual cycle is a little more than two weeks late. We only offer abdominal scans, otherwise we would be able to detect the embryonic heartbeat a few days earlier. The factors that influence whether we are successful in detecting a heartbeat have far more to do with the mother- how full her bladder and empty her bowel is, how thin she is, and whether or not she’s had any full-term pregnancies before.
I agree that this legislation would be very difficult to enforce, unless it a specific gestation was named, because otherwise we’re depending on the quality of the scan, and the honesty of the scanner. I believe the debate, however, has tremendous value in educating more people about the rapid development of unborn humans. Maybe someone will tell this guy that a seven week old embryo does have a mouth, and ears, and fingers, and if she’s a girl, the cells that will later become the eggs which have the potential to become her children, are already forming.
I’m waiting for PP Ohio to hand out signs that say “They’re just heart TONES not heart BEATS” LOL
I’m also curious if the Personhood purists will fight this law on the basis that it would only save 90% of unborn babies, and thus assert that the law’s supporters are purposely throwing the other 10% to the dogs.
But wait – did he say baby? Did he say – mother? I thought the mantra was “My body – my choice” ! Seems he mentions two people involved here … That’s a liberal no-no.
ari says:
March 4, 2011 at 2:24 pm
hokay, heather. back up on your excitable passion for fiction being considered a documentary. Get ahold of your Stephanie Coontz. For that matter, grab the Caro Graglia.>>
(Denise) I wasn’t saying legalized abortion is good. Heather recalled a time when “abortion was spoken of in whispers.” That reminded me of the scene in “Splendor in the Grass” in which Deanie’s mother says of the local “bad girl” that “she had to have one of those awful operations.” This mother has been filling Deanie with a terror of sexuality. She has also been telling her that “nice girls” don’t have sexual feelings. After they are married, they just allow the husband to enjoy himself because it’s a wifely duty and so they can become mothers. “Splendor in the Grass” is a classic because it contains many basic truths. One of those is that it is not at all easy to raise females to a healthy, well-adjusted adulthood. Puberty — and powerful sexual feelings — may be present as young as 12 but it is years later that they are have society’s sanction to express those feelings. In the past, there was even a tendency to deny that females EXPERIENCED these feelings.
<<Statistically- sexually active women married at a fairly high rate, even in the repressed fifties. if you need fiction, try back to the future, with the hottie teenage future mom. even in pilgrim times- knocked up brides were fairly normal, says Stephanie Coontz. I’ve seen family genealogies, mine and others, so I’m not sure she’s right, but still…..not your splendor…….>>
(Denise) We may have to make a cost-benefit analysis. Would you rather have a daughter who has an abortion or a daughter who has severe mental problems? Those are bad choices. But they may well be the choices intrinsic to having a daughter come of age.
<<and repressed? are you kidding? statistically, even today, the highest satisfaction rates are reported amongst religious, married women with a minimal number of partners. Usually the daughters of what would now be called “over-protective, authoritarian” fathers. I’m counting on it, for my daughter.>>
(Denise) Maybe so. I hope your daughter doesn’t have an abortion and enjoys her sexuality. I just wouldn’t count on either. It’s not easy.
<<As for sexually active, unrepressed….anybody seen the latest interviews with Lady Gaga? Or other girls? Ever read Tucker Max from the girls POV? These are not happy sex warriors. These are unhappy, preyed upon, vulnerable, sad young women.
Get real. Get real numbers. It’ll make for a more happy, more mindful, careful life.
ari
(Denise) Ari, I’m not promoting abortion. This was triggered by wanting to return to hearing abortion spoken of in whispers. You hear that in “Splendor in the Grass.” I have to admit I strongly identify with Deanie.
@ frebus you are soooo right why are we calling a pregnant woman a mother if the baby in her womb isnt human. why arent libs just saying blob as they always do loony liar libs
@ari i still have yet to meet a woman proud of her abortion. it will never be accepted no matter how many of these hollywood has beens you have sign a petition or get to a podium. i just boycott their movies when i find out they are pro aborts.
Our oldest daughter just told us she and her husband are pregnant again. This baby will be their 5th! They announced it in such a sweet way. Daughters 2 and 3 stood whispering to each other and in walks daughter #1 with an obviously big tummy (towel) and they all huddled together as she told them something and they all started jumping up and down in excitement! I started crying because I got it right away, it took Papaw a little longer but he finally figured it out also. lol. My point I am so blessed to have 2 daughters who so value the sanctity of life and they are passing that on to their children. Their babies are never fetuses they are given fun nicknames from the start and are part of the family even before they are born! What happy families they are! I am so proud and happy to have our 7th grandbaby on the way! BTW, I sent balloons to the Ohio House promoting this bill. I sent them to honor my grandbabies who we know were people from the moment of conception not because they have mouths or not but because they have a soul!
susan says:
March 4, 2011 at 5:00 pm
We need to get honest so we can combat this problem and stop killing babies and let them live and adopt them out and give them life if we feel we can’t raise them. If it was me, I would give my baby life.
(Denise) I find abortion grotesque. However, there is a reflexive tendency to make adoption seem like the automatic solution to a problem pregnancy. Before Roe v. Wade, an adoption criminality advocate said, “The choices aren’t just legal and illegal abortion. There’s adoption.”
Adoptees are 2-3% of the population. They are 16% of serial murderers. They are 15 times more likely to kill their parents than other people. On a more prosaic level, these figures suggest adoptees may have major feelings of abandonment. I’ve talked to people who say most adoptees they know are disturbed or “head cases.”
This doesn’t argue for abortion. Rather, it argues against having adoption as the instant default suggestion for problem pregnancies.
Perhaps we need to be far more creative in finding humane ways — ways that don’t cripple young females or drive them mad — that will prevent pregnancy from being a time of panic when it should always be welcomed as a time of joy.
i know plenty of well ajusted adopted grown kids who are not killers besides adoption is better then killing your kids
ronald regans oldest son was adopted as was faith hill yep they are serial killers huh @@ eye roll
h says:
March 5, 2011 at 11:21 am
i know plenty of well ajusted adopted grown kids who are not killers besides adoption is better then killing your kids
(Denise) Of course, most adoptees are serial murderers or parricides but the disproportionate number of adoptees who are indicates this group faces very special issues. I personally hope that many of those issues will be addressed through open adoptions.
Part of my point is that we must recognize that if the law forces girls and women to complete their pregnancies, the vast majority will not be relinquished. They will be raised by females regardless of how they felt about the pregnancy.
Abortion is a horror. It will stop when problem pregnancy stops.
with the exception of rape and incest, no one FORCED those girls to have sex….they chose to do that on their own. Some may have been pressured and believed the lie “if you love me, you’ll do this”.
I find it offensive that you are suggesting that adopted children are more likely to be serial killers. I am not adopted, but I have two different cousins (two different aunt/uncle families) who are adopted. One is married and he and his wife are trying to start a family. I am pretty sure the other is either in his last year of college or he’s out of college and working. Neither are serial killers.
Melissa Gilbert is adopted. And I didn’t see anything on the news about HER being a serial killer.
Denise, if you’re going to offer statistics on adopted children being serial killers and such, I’d like to see your sources, please.
http://www.crimemagazine.com/adoption-forensics-connection-between-adoption-and-murder
That article discusses the connection at length.
David “Son of Sam” Berkowitz shot females in lover’s lanes so they wouldn’t conceive pregnancies that would result in a baby given up for adoption. Berkowitz was an adoptee.
Joel Rifkin, serial murderer of 17 streetwalkers, has said, “My whole life is about adoption.” He feared he might have been conceived in an act of prostitution.
MOST adoptees are not murderers. However, the fact that they are so disproportionately likely to be both serial murderers and parricides suggests the group has special problems.
LizFromNebraska says:
March 5, 2011 at 12:50 pm
with the exception of rape and incest, no one FORCED those girls to have sex….they chose to do that on their own. Some may have been pressured and believed the lie “if you love me, you’ll do this”.
(Denise) You’re making a basic mistake about my point. I’m not saying that once a female is pregnant the law should NOT use force to make her carry to term. There is a valid case for compulsory carrying of a pregnancy to term. The government uses force in all kinds of ways. They may use force on people who are victims as so many — but not all — females with problem pregnancies are victims.
LizFromNebraska says:March 5, 2011 at 12:50 pmwith the exception of rape and incest, no one FORCED those girls to have sex….they chose to do that on their own. Some may have been pressured and believed the lie “if you love me, you’ll do this”.
(Denise) Would this indicate that a key to reducing the horror of abortion is to reduce the sexual victimization of females?
nope serial killer j dahmer was a very loved child and came from a 2 parent home. you cant paint everyone with the same brush
heather says:
March 5, 2011 at 3:40 pm
nope serial killer j dahmer was a very loved child and came from a 2 parent home. you cant paint everyone with the same brush
(Denise) I DON’T paint everyone with the same brush. However, there are certain things that correlate with being a serial murderer or a parricide. Being adopted is one of them.
“Many specialists, including Douglas (1996) have agreed that the most crucial factor in the development of the serial rapist or killer is the role of fantasy. It has been suggested that the escalation from fantasy to reality in these instances, can be attributed to pornography.”
http://www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc5.html (But, see, people don’t like to connect the two because, well, porn is just so much more “in” and “popular” than adoption, y’know…)
Also, animal abuse: http://canada.myletsadopt.com/2011/01/28/the-link-between-serial-killers-and-animal-abuse/
http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/17627 “What Makes Serial Killers Tick”
P.S. – Open adoptions can solve a lot of the “rejection” issues that many adoptees in closed adoption situations have suffered in the past.
I DON’T paint everyone with the same brush. However, there are certain things that correlate with being a serial murderer or a parricide. Being adopted is one of them.
One of a whole HOST of other factors. You seem to have come here to paint adoption as some sort of evil. Are you pro-life?
Denise,
Kel already addressed this a bit, but: you do know that “correlation does not imply causality”, right? For example: there’s a striking correlation between the consumption of ice cream in New York City and the murder rate in New York City; did you know that? By the reasoning you suggest, here, we should become extremely nervous about the sale of ice cream (at least, if we value human life), yes?
Or, just maybe, both the increase in ice-cream-eating and murder are both correlated to something else… such as the hot temperatures of summer.
Do you see the point?
Kel says:
March 5, 2011 at 4:48 pm
“Many specialists, including Douglas (1996) have agreed that the most crucial factor in the development of the serial rapist or killer is the role of fantasy.
P.S. – Open adoptions can solve a lot of the “rejection” issues that many adoptees in closed adoption situations have suffered in the past.
(Denise) I strongly favor open adoption. I think growing up knowing the bio mother means the adoptee is less likely to fantasize in extremes: that she is either a good goddess or a prostitute.
Kel says:
March 5, 2011 at 4:49 pm
I DON’T paint everyone with the same brush. However, there are certain things that correlate with being a serial murderer or a parricide. Being adopted is one of them.
One of a whole HOST of other factors. You seem to have come here to paint adoption as some sort of evil. Are you pro-life?
(Denise) I’m not painting adoption “as some sort of evil” but am pointing out that it is a flawed system with at least some results that are negative.
You don’t need to advocate adoption to argue that pregnant females must be legally forced to carry to term and give birth. It is perfectly reasonable to see no dichotomy between “having” and “raising.” The carrying and giving birth can be seen as the start of raising.
Also, adoption can be available without it being advocated as a kind of default result for problem pregnancies.
I’m not really on either side of this debate. I believe Roe v. Wade must be overturned. After that, the first step to reducing — and eventually I hope eliminating — the barbarism of abortion will be to compel girls and women seeking them to learn exactly what the fetus is like at their stage of pregnancy. There are many other measures I believe in to stem abortion and too many to go into here.
He’s one of the “Young Turks”. More like a “mad Turk”.
So adoption causes 0 psychological effects on a mother, yet every woman who gets an abortion is a “post abortion syndrome” sufferer? Amazing.
The women I know that chose life and put their precious daughters up for adoption went through with counseling and are still checking in with those involved in their case. They pursue help when they need it. Oh, and they were both open adoptions and they see their girlies ALL THE TIME. So, seeing your baby growing and happy and ALIVE might be just the thing a mother needs to get through adoption and be at peace with it.
As opposed to abortion where our babies were killed inside of us and sucked out a vacuum tube. What post abortion counseling did you receive at the mill, Megs? Did they call you to follow up? Would they be there for me now if I said I regret my abortion?
Oh and you can call yourself whatever you would like. I prefer Mom.
So adoption causes 0 psychological effects on a mother, yet every woman who gets an abortion is a “post abortion syndrome” sufferer? Amazing.
Um… would you care to quote where someone said that? Or implied it? I guess I missed that in this thread.
Actually yes, the intake counselor I initially talked to called me a week after the procedure to see how things were going. Was it the most fun thing I’ve ever been through? No. Duh. But putting a kid up for adoption, at least for me, would have been 3 trillion times more painful. It isn’t productive to sugarcoat adoption as a completely painless process. A woman I spoke with in August put her twins up for adoption when she was 19 and tried to commit suicide twice afterwards. And then there’s my old boss, who was a teen mom pre-Roe and says she’s totally fine sending out a birthday card once a year to her daughter and that’s it.
I think we both could provide a million anecdotes, by the way. Just shows how unique reproductive experiences can be.
Painting adopted children as likely future serial killers is really sick stuff.
The comments give evidence and corroboration to our observation: pro-choice advocates are actually pro-abortion.
ninek says:
March 6, 2011 at 2:07 am
Painting adopted children as likely future serial killers is really sick stuff. The comments give evidence and corroboration to our observation: pro-choice advocates are actually pro-abortion.
(Denise) I’m horrified by abortion. My point is not that adoption is bad or should be unavailable. I’m just saying it need not be a kind of default position regarding problem pregnancies.
It’s not sick, it is factual that adoption correlates with certain horrors such as serial murder and parricide.
Most girls and women who give birth because abortion is unavailable will raise their resulting babies.
yes denise i thought you were a pro abort too. however i really am trying to process your beef with adoption. lets face it without adoption there would be more abortions. murderers come from all different backgrounds.i have never heard that adoption was a cause.
heather says:
March 6, 2011 at 3:05 am
yes denise i thought you were a pro abort too. however i really am trying to process your beef with adoption.
(Denise) I don’t HAVE a beef with adoption. I was pointing out that there are problems with it. Refer to that article I pointed to in a previous post. Adoptees are 2-3% of the population. They are 16% of serial murderers. They are 15 times more likely than other people to kill their parents. I think that indicates very strongly that this is a population with special problems.
I wrote an essay in which I proposed that giving the baby up for adoption be MANDATORY if a baby survives an abortion. I think it’s absurd that girls and women can get abortions and if, against all odds, a baby survives, they can go home with it.
<<lets face it without adoption there would be more abortions.>>
(Denise) Relinquishment is available NOW and there are a million and half abortions a year in the US! I never proposed eliminating adoption.
However, it would be possible for both abortion and (for the most part) adoption to become things of the past: if all pregnancies were desired by the pregnant female and if only mature females — women rather than girls — got pregnant.
murderers come from all different backgrounds.i have never heard that adoption was a cause.>>
(Denise) Yes, murderers “come from all different backgrounds.” However, certain things correlate strongly with becoming a murderer: single motherhood, poverty, abuse or neglect in childhood, and adoption.
Did you hear of the “Son of Sam”? He shot females in lover’s lanes because he believed he had probably been conceived in the back seat of a car and wanted to prevent others from being so conceived — and “abandoned” to adoption.
Have you heard of Joel Rifkin, serial murderer of 17 prostitutes? He has said, “My whole life is about adoption.” He feared he had been conceived in an act of prostitution.
I’ve never had an abortion nor have I ever given a baby up for adoption. I’ll say again that I find the idea of abortion horrifying.
Megan,
It’s the difference between life and death. I know you don’t understand that. I have patience for you and hope that one day you will.
Abortion kills a child whether you want to believe that or not. It’s a fact.
Adoption allows a child the right to life and the chance to grow up in a family.
Adoption isn’t without pain. No one has said that. Is there a Silent No More group about adoption that I am missing??
I imagine if I hadn’t had my daughter killed in my abortion and put her up for adoption she would be around 20 years old now and a very unique part of my family. THAT is the burden I bear.
Megan,
PS
If I had been called one week after my abortion by the mill I would have told them I was fine too.
As it stands the average woman after her abortion stays in denial about the death of her child around 7-9 years.
Would have never dreamed of calling the mill then. Wonder what they would have said? Hmmmm. I think I should make some phone calls and report back here.
I wanted to tell you that I am glad you are here. I do not mind in the least that you and I disagree about so much. You do it with honesty and respect for the most part. Thank you.
Cenk does have a mouth, and we see that it hasn’t done much for him. Sometimes greater truths are spoken without uttering a word.
Cenk is living proof.
Well, I’m an adoptive mom and here are some characteristics of serial killers I got from Dr. Phil’s website. Being adopted isn’t one of them:
http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/188
Adopted kids do tend to have more behavioral problems, which I can certainly attest to, and people should be more aware of this, but does that mean they should never have been born?
Megan, you say that your friend placed her children for adoption and later tried to kill herself. Do you think that she really would feel better knowing that her children were destroyed and discarded along with the medical waste that was going out that day? At least she has a chance at reconciliation, just as my son, with all his problems, has a chance to straighten things out and get his act together some day (BTW, he’s a pain in the behind, but he ain’t no serial killer).
A girl in the Ukraine was also born without a mouth:
http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/21-08-2007/96184-girl_without_mouth-0/
Guess she was not a person either.