Killing is cheap; buying diapers is expensive
We spend $60 a week on formula. We spend $40 a week on diapers….
An infant will likely cost $160 a month to diaper….
An infant will likely cost $50 a month for creams, wipes, bottles, blankets, carriers, swaddles, strollers, bouncers, books, toys, rattles, shoes, clothing, pacifiers, soap, washrags, bathtubs, spit up cloths, changing pads, cribs, pack and plays, etc. Yes, you can get many of these things cheap, or as hand-me-downs. You’ll never get them all, though, and that’s why it will be at least $50 a month.
An infant costs $50 a month in laundry. You will do laundry every day. The baby will soil numerous outfits. Not just baby outfits, but mommy outfits. If you have a washer and dryer, expect your water and electricity bill to jump at least $40 a month. If you do not, you will be looking at spending at least that amount at the laundromat, plus extra for transportation. Or, you could buy more clothes to do it less often, which then ups the amount of your monthly incidentals….
An infant costs between $500 and $2000 a month to care for. By the time he or she has made it through the first year, the expenses will run anywhere between $6000 and $24,000 – all before the actual costs of medical care or giving birth.
Is every “sidewalk counselor” and anti-abortion politician ready to really take on the financial commitment that an infant represents? Or do they want to continue saying a car seat, a jug of formula and a box of Pampers is all a woman really needs?
~Robin Marty, who apparently only does her baby shopping at incredibly overpriced stores, and who now seems to believe pregnancy resource centers don’t do enough to help women, RH Reality Check, April 18
[HT: Jivin J; image via thefreshxpress.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I just don’t know how we’ve managed to raise our children when they apparently cost us more than we were earning at the time! Oh wait…
1. Breastfeeding is best for baby and mother, and FREE.
2. Unless I am really out of touch with the cost of diapers, where the heck is she shopping, or is she changing her baby every ten minutes? Ever heard of cloth?
3. “An infant will likely cost $50 a month for creams (didn’t even finish all the samples we got from the hospital) wipes (used wash cloths) bottles (didn’t need) blankets (bought at a yard sale for pennies) carriers, (why plural?) swaddles (blankets again?), strollers (gift from grandma, and $20 at a yard sale), bouncers, (again, why plural?) books, toys, rattles, shoes, clothing (library, yard sales, gifts and hand-me-downs,) pacifiers, soap, washrags, bathtubs,(again, why plural? how many bathtubs does one baby need? My kids bathed in the sink!) spit up cloths, changing pads, cribs, pack and plays, (more with the plural! Why the need to exaggerate! I’m amazed that she hasn’t suggested you’ll need a bigger house to hold all this junk!) etc. Yes, you can get many of these things cheap, or as hand-me-downs. You’ll never get them all, though, and that’s why it will be at least $50 a month …$6000 to $24 000 for the first year
(YEAH…RIIIGHT!)
My first two children were born while we were college students, working minimum wage jobs around our classes. Our second child slept in a laundry basket for the first three months of his life. He’s now taller than me and on a full scholarship at private school- so apparently the experience scarred him for life. :o)
Now I run a group of pregnancy resource centers, where we give OODLES of baby gear away, every single day.
We had the pleasure of helping a family this morning whose baby was discharged from the hospital today (she born back in December at 24 weeks gestation, and is going home two weeks after her original due date, with no apparent health problems.) We gave them clothes, bedding, a bassinette, a bouncer, a stroller, a sling, and some toys and additional clothes for their 2 year old. They can come back for more when they need it.
We have so many strollers at the moment that we’re putting extras on Freecycle. We help about 500 families each year with free baby gear, and we still have oodles.
I’m the last person to minimise how much it takes to raise a child. However, this lady’s post is just fearmongering. And then, again, with the “if you don’t let me kill my child, you’re responsible for clothing and feeding him” argument. Gah.
Thank you Michelle for your work. I only wish I had known back in 1983 there was a Center for Life…by the grace of God my child would be a young man today.
Some of this stuff a baby doesn’t need at all. Bouncers are way optional (you can bounce your child yourself, Robin, you know that’s allowed, right?). Not every kid likes pacifiers. Not every kid likes rattles. And on. And on.
I can’t believe, though, that she is essentially coming out and saying, “Yes, the unborn are people with value, just like every born person. But they’re really expensive, so it’s totally okay to murder them sometimes.” It’s one thing to have that buried in a talking point somewhere so deep down that the person using it may not even notice. It’s quite another to come so close to saying it in exactly those words that it’s hard believing the person saying it does not realize what they’re saying. I’d like to give her the benefit of the doubt, but this is a really disturbing and cold post of hers.
Ok abortion in 1983 $200.00 boyfriend paid
Life after abortion
Alcohol and drug use $1,000’s of dollars
Missing work because of alcohol and drug use…$1,000’s of dollars.
Therapy..3 years twice a week…$1,000’s of dollars (oh yeah she finally told me I had to learn to live with it after she threw up her hands)
Depression and despair leading to be unworthy of having a better life….$1,000’s of dollars missed out on a better job, or asking for a raise.
Anti-depressants and anti-anxiety pills….$1,000’s of dollars
Bless you, Ann Marie.
Your list is what comes to my mind when a woman calls to ask how much an abortion costs. I often want to reply “How long is a piece of string?”
Diapers, clothes, furniture, all cost money, but how much is a hug and a laugh from your baby worth? Can you put a price on the pleasure of seeing a child learn to crawl, walk, draw, read, grow, run, play, fly?
An abortion may seem cheap at first, but how much is your self-respect worth? What would you pay for the nightmares to stop? What price for your tears?
Ask any of my post-abortive friends how much money they would give to get a “do-over.” I think the US national debt would pale in comparison.
What utter nonsense. I, also, raised two children when my income was less than her yearly total, LOL. Yet I paid rent, car payment, insurance, etc. on top of that. The second time around I knew that even the newest baby outfit doesn’t stay that way long & what I hadn’t saved from her older sister, I got at Once Upon a Child. Stroller from the baby shower and my carrier (singular) was like-new second hand, too. Breastfed & neither would ever take a bottle (though I had them) & no pacifiers. The only thing bought new for girl #2 was a car set–oh, wait, that was a gift from a friend, too!
The bottom line is no one’s value lies in how much they cost to keep alive, ever. Just as I could never put a dollar amount on what my children have given to me. I agree with Michelle: this is just fear-mongering.
I have two in diapers and I don’t spend $40 per week. I suppose if you buy brand-name organic biodegradable designer diapers you might spend that, but I can get a box of 200-ct size 3 generic brand diapers for $32.78 at Sam’s Club, and that amount lasts me several weeks. Of course, it’s even cheaper if you’re able to use cloth.
Formula is unnecessary if you breastfeed. I had to use it from 6 months on with my last two because my supply failed, and I can get 48oz can of generic brand at Sam’s Club for $21.98. That also lasts me several weeks (more now that my daughter is past age 1 and I’ve started transitioning her to cow’s milk).
I rarely buy any baby clothes or baby items brand-new; I scout thrift shops, secondhand stores, and rummage sales. Plus I contact friends who have children (the benefit of knowing many large Catholic families) and inherit or borrow their used baby things.
So, Robin, your numbers are way way off — and yes, pro-lifers are ready and willing to help with the financial responsibilities that come with having a child. Ever hear of CPCs?
Everyone has pretty much said it but have to chime in with more of the same:
Breastfeeding: FREE
co-sleeping: FREE
EC (elimination communication): FREE or
Cloth Diapers: (could probably be obtained free) $100 initial cost, lasts for multiple kids
Toys: donated or gifted for FREE or spend $5 at charity 2nd hand store.
Car Seat: donated or gifted for FREE or spend $25 for used (but still safe)
Clothes: donated/gifted for FREE or spend $25 for 6 months worth @ 2nd hand store.
Food: the food you’d usually toss off your plate/leftovers. (No reason they can’t eat normal food!)
Sorry, unless you formula feed, buy preprepared baby food, shop only at high end specialty stores, and buy enough to put the kid in a materalistic coma…it’s just not that expensive to raise a kid. People throughout history all over the world have been doing it for practically nothing for thousands of years. And being poor isn’t a death sentence, it’s not even necessarily a negative. I always felt sorry for my rich (upper middle class and up) peers growing up. Their priorities and wants/loves always seemed so messed up to me. And their inability to just go have fun without spending money was very saddening. Sometimes the only thing that money brings is…money. very little of what children need can be obtained with money.
Oh dear. What a quandry!! Put a pricetag on the babies head.
At my first baby shower, whoopsies I mean FETUS shower I pretty much had it all covered.
And here’s a reminder-by the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th child you have everything you need. They come cheaper by the dozen I’ve heard.
Wants vs. Needs 101
Sorry, Robin. Your little rant isn’t going to discourage prolifers from having children. You are only trying to convince yourself and your proabort friends that killing your own was the way to go.
I absolutely concur with AnnMarie about the costs of booze, drugs, antidepressants and counseling to “get on with my life” after abortion.
“Is every “sidewalk counselor” and anti-abortion politician ready to really take on the financial commitment that an infant represents? Or do they want to continue saying a car seat, a jug of formula and a box of Pampers is all a woman really needs?”
Such a bad argument. It does not address the claim that the unborn is an innocent human being who cannot be killed. Rather, it completely bypasses that claim and argues that “If you tell me I can’t do something evil, then you have to provide for the consequences of not performing the evil action.” It’s such a strange way of arguing. In what other situation can one claim that a certain action is evil and then be assumed responsible for the consequences of someone not performing an evil action? Oh, but you don’t believe abortion is evil? Ah, that is the real question then, isn’t it? Then why wasn’t the argument about how abortion is not evil to begin with? No interest in what the pro-life side claims, no familiarity with what the debate is about, simply regurgitated talking points.
What whinners these females are! GEEZ!
One of them says a childs smile and hug are a “cold comfort” when you can’t pay for stuff. REALLY??
They brought these lives into being and they ought to “WOMAN UP”!
You don’t have the money, don’t sit on your behind and complain that you haven’t got what you need, make do, or get out there and do something about it.
Go to a church and tell them you’ll clean the restrooms for grocery money if you have to. Swallow some pride and build some character! PARENTS MAKE SACRIFICES WILLINGLY AND HAPPILY for their children. That’s what ADULTS do. THEY do what is necessary to provide for, protect and care for the lives they hve been entrusted with.
GROW UP, RH “REALITY”!
Bobby,
You’re spot on. I mean, her argument is almost like the National Lampoon cover:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/Natlamp73.jpg
Except in this case, it’s “If you object to abortion, you better be prepared to personally shell out $20K/year for every baby that isn’t aborted.”
I mean, even if you accept her prices for rearing a baby (and as everyone else has pointed out, these are waaaayyyy exaggerated) and believe that no one should have a baby until they can afford these levels of expenditures, the question still isn’t “Do I kill the baby or live in poverty?” Instead, a woman (and her partner, which should be her husband) should ask themselves, “Can we afford to have a child right now?” If the answer is “no,” then don’t have sex! As Janet Smith says, “Why are you on the train to Minneapolis if you don’t want to go there?”
Of course, having children is much more than an economic argument and should not be reduced to one as such.
Yep, my brother used five cribs a week, and three tubs, then when I came along, I needed three new cribs a week plus two tubs. Yep. Boy, my parents were so sweet not to kill us when we became too expensive.
Well, she’s panicking after reading a parenting magazine. Notice how her list is fairly abstract? It’s things we’ve seen the advertisements for. And, well, since magazines have served us so well to this point- seventeen, glamour, cosmo or bride- how would you know that maybe, this time, the magazine stumbled. It’s rather like believing the nerdy girl when she says you don’t need that necklace. Sha-ah. If you want to look cute, follow the style guide exactly!
I mean, my first, I really thought I needed a crib and a swing and a rocking chair. I was nearly consumed with envy when my neighbor had the perfect nursing rocker with the coordinating footstool. I paid $70 for a three yard bit of cloth, and then $20 for the perfect diaper pattern, and $80 for a nursing in public dress. I didn’t know any mothers. When you talk about friends, and family, and church, you are talking about “social capital” which is invisible to economists, or people out of the loop. She has a point, for the “financial capital” she has been informed that she needs- including safety plastic baths for the infant, so s/he won’t drown in a pan of water. Which there are articles in magazines about. She’s not being unreasonable. She’s working from a different information base than you.
She’s making a pretty common economics argument, and then linking it to a moral argument. There are two separate arguments going on here. Children are brutally expensive. The comparison is buying a house. A house is touted as the most expensive item one will ever pay for. When, really, a child is. For most families, the tipping point for poverty is two children. Famillies with two children are the largest group in bankruptcy, in the US.
The thing is, economists are limited to both what they can imagine, and what they can measure. Like, Amartya Sen made his career when he noticed how much he sent home to India in remittances. He looked around, and realized that nobody had counted this money. He then measured it. Transfer payments by workers to their families ( note, not gov’t to gov’t) are the largest chunk of money in some moribund countries. They were “invisible” before. Now, in the Phillippines, transfer workers returning via airlines, are greeted by the country’s president, on occasion. They are the wealth generators in their country, and they are recognized as such. Wire transfer companies are now being scrutinized for “fairness.” Banks are attempting to muscle in on the cash transfer business. They had tried to leave it, when they were being scrutinized for drug cartel cash laundering.
So, a child is a huge upfront cost. Now,will this child fall prey to drugs and gangs, and continue to be a cost? Or will the child be channelled into school, college, a high-paying career? Will the child care for you in old age, even doing things like feeding you in the hospital, when you are ill with cancer, and the nurse hasn’t the time or patience to coax you into feeding? Will the child follow in your footsteps, building bridges and tunnels, and showing family pride, building America from the ground up? Will they accumulate what you learned on your job, and apply it further, master and apprentice style?
Social capital built Europe. The visible form was the master/ apprentice system. We’ve got “star wars” as the last little bit of that notion, among the “visible.” I doubt anyone other than nurses have noticed the value of feeding you in the hospital- I’ve run across mentions of it in books- the best guarantor for surviving cancer is family visiting the hospital- but I doubt it will show up as measurable, unless someone were calculating the cost of euthanizing little old ladies in Belgium. How can you measure the value of a little old ill grandmother taking the time to listen to every word, and then praying over you? How do you measure becoming human, or remembering your tribe, by caring for the weak?
I am grateful, really, that the Internet “visibilizes” private, and small information, of no use to office workers- which is what editors of women’s magazines are. the internet has your reactions of “balderdash!” It has websites on how to make cheap diapers. It has lists of essentials and not essentials. I’d rather it had more information, rather than less. and more accessibility.
But wait, there’s more, Robin! (She’s being short-sighted.) Don’t forget the cost of college down the road, which by the time baby grows up will be, like, a gazillion dollars!
Well, at least that’s what my in-laws were concerned about when we were on maybe baby #3 (we’ve just been blessed with #6). Our response was that we give our children the gifts of life and siblings, we shop smart and live modestly to provide for them on one income, but we do not owe them college. We will help where we can, and there are always scholarships, grants, loans, and community colleges if they choose that path.
It’s not that we don’t want the very best for our children. My husband and I are both well-educated, he with a Ph.D. that he doesn’t do much with, as he’s sacrificed a higher income (and benefits) for a job he enjoys that allows him to work from home (the best benefit of all). But as has already been said, children cannot be measured in dollars and cents. They are priceless. And those intangibles will far outweigh any monetary cost.
Money comes and goes. Children are forever.
What a sick justification for the killing of a child. You don’t need designer diapers and strollers. People are more than willing to help, too…..If I could have a baby on NOTHING and still be able to survive, then her argument is invalid. Sorry we can’t all be Gwyneth Paltrow and be born into millions, but that’s no excuse to kill your child. I seriously, seriously can’t believe she wrote this. I’m so livid I’m not even making sense.
*HEAD DESK*
and, well, economists can be very morally inept on the matters of parenthood and familial obligations. Honestly, sometimes they scare me, just reading even laudatory profiles. Mr Krugman, and his wife, and Mr Greenspan, and his wife- on both sides- neither have children, nor do they want to be entangled with human passions. They don’t seem to “hear” what other people do, at church, or at lunch, or anything. I don’t know that they won’t get old and ill, and decide to Hemlock themselves and their wives. The only people I know who sound like them, in my life, have been people who have the Hemlock book on the shelf. I don’t know that their wives are safe. I’m not being melodramatic. I’m really worried about them feeling the urge for suttee, or gotterdamerung when they get creaky. Susan Sontag and that professor were glamorized in magazines at their suicide, the sort of magazine that interviews these people.
While I’m at it, it was a common scare tactic in the 70’s and 80’s in high school, to emphasize how expensive kids were. She’s just retreading her high school brainwashing with numbers. I’d wish she’d be original.
Endless kisses and hugs and smiles and cooing and laughing and stealing your heart…….PRICELESS!!!!!
and, really, we didn’t know what ya’ll think is commonplace. You keep referencing crowds, and helpful families. What if the family isn’t helpful, or the crowd is inept or clueless? I mean, we attended a church, and it was basically old people, and they never bothered to mention that they had a veggie garden for gleaning- this was when I was drinking coffee enough to stave off hunger pains- and the family said to use disposable diapers, rather than cloth- and insisted on expensive portrait packages for presents- and left us to buy strollers, and clothes, and everything else. We have been paying off the credit card that was used to buy diapers for ten years. I did belong to a playgroup, eventually, with mothers who had unbelievably complex imported fancy diapers. I couldn’t copy them at home, without buying specialized machines. Finally, on our third child, at the city-run school- a mother gave me her cloth diapers. another mother gave us diapers given by the gov’t. My mother showed up, and bought groceries for us this year. we changed churches.
my husband has an advanced degree, and a job in an industry that has been tanked. I’ve both worked, and stayed home. Nearly every item of clothing I own is frayed, spotted, or worn to threads. It’s not fun living this way. I get where she’s coming from. I try to imagine my life, and I imagine an office job at decent pay, with a car, and stylish new clothes. We had kids by accident. But the thing is, I know middle-aged women who worked to not have kids- and they are miserably unhappy. Middle-aged women with children? Fulfilled. I’d rather be fulfilled in life, with children, than unhappy. It’s all about the long ball game, not the first inning.
Like a dummy, I went over to check out that RH Reality site. Wow. There is some serious anger over there. I had to come back here and read all the comments here again. I still think I need a shower just for visiting that site. And I love the way their comment section works. Yes, I could not help myself. I had to comment. Then the readers of the site rate comments. Any with ratings 2 or less on a scale of 1 to 5 are hidden. And the description for a 1 rating is “troll.” So if they don’t like what you have to say, they rate you low, and bingo, they don’t have to deal with you any more. Kind of the same way they see abortion and children.
I agree with all of you. I don’t know where this lady is coming from, but she isn’t in the real world.
As to cloth diapers, I used them for both of my kids. Now I use them for dust rags. Just spray them with End Dust and they are better than any you can find. I bought these diapers 41 years ago.
You can also go to these dollar stores and get a lot of things, including some name brands.
Keep the Prolife movemtne going.
Bryan,
I don’t think you are a dummy for going there. I go there. I leave incredibly sad.
I no longer comment though as it is completely pointless as you found out. :)
Robin is a narcissist. If she had said that about born babies she would have been labeled a sociopath for those kinds of worth. Sadly folks are right- that is the norm of that unreal blog.
I wanted to comment on the website of the original poster, but it is not the sort of website I want any of my information going out to and they require a registration.
That all past, I think the artcile is appalling in so many levels. First of all, the sheer attempt to make the life of a child an issue of cost in the first place is intensly problematic. Human life is priceless; we know this at the core of our being, no matter what our feelings on abortion. Look at the rare positive and hopeful stories we see on the news. Many of them involve saving the life of someone at what usually is enormous personal or governmnetal cost.
To the practical though, where in the world does she get these numbers?!? I have four children under 5yrs old. Three of them are still in diapers and with a baby-sitter, the eldest is in pre-school, and the youngest is still on formula. I spend NO WHERE near those amounts to feed, clothe, change, and educate all four of them.
When reflecting on this the two issues become intimately linked. When it becomes about one’s own expectations of comfort, children become a commodity, and this is a shameful act of dehuminization. Since when does a name-brand tag become more valuable than the life of a child?
I guess for me, I have no one to thank but my parents for raising me free of the materialism and comfort of society. However, I don’t even know how we got to this point. What happened to the hippy baby-boomers who didn’t care what they wore and were willing to risk their lives for what they believed in the 60’s? How did they become the greedy, intellectual elite that has formed their own children and educated them in the classroom for the last two generations? (rhetorical stereotype…i know this does not speak for everyone; my parents were “good hippies” and still are).
guess how long it took for me to get a “1 (troll)” rating?
Less than 30 seconds.
ari,
Thanks for sharing your point of view.
You’re right- not every pregnant woman has friends and family who have the time or the inclination to help. It can make pregnancy a lonely, scary time for her… this situation made worse if the father is out of the picture. Sometimes her situation isn’t obvious from the outside looking in so it’s important that we women stick together and make the move to help each other without being asked (like they did in the good-old days). Baby-sitting her other children while she goes for her OB appointments, picking up groceries, a prescription, being a sympathetic ear to listen, are really simple, but awesome ways to help out!
Great comments by everyone! Does anyone have a book recommendation covering these money-saving ideas? It might be a great gift idea for a new mom, presented to her waaay before the baby shower, so she can figure out what she does and doesn’t need to buy brand-spanking new.
Robin has evidently not heard of COSTCO or BJ’s. She also doesn’t clip coupons for diapers and such. She also doesn’t go to outlet stores.
Laundry daily? REALLY??!! Robin, you need to give up the Suzie Homemaker washer that Santa left you as a child and buy a Maytag. You’ll find that one load per week does the job in a big people’s machine, so that reduces the laundry bill to 1/7.
As most of the items under $50/month materialize at the fetus shower (as Carla has noted) Robin needs to understand that just a dot of Desitin is used when changing the diaper.
But Robin’s assertion needs to be tackled head-on. The proabort challenge to us is to pay for raising every unplanned baby who is unwanted, or accept abortion. That makes sense only when one understands the true nature of narcissism. The world must accept responsibility for the unplanned, untoward consequences of the narcissist’s behavior. And of course, the answer to Robin is “NO.”
No, you may not murder a baby so that you may live as you wish.
No, you may not raise the child with the proviso that society pays your biills.
No, you may not have sex wherever, and with whomever, and demand that society accept responsibility, either by approving the child’s killing, or picking up the tab.
It’s called accepting responsibility, which is a lethal challenge and insult to the raging narcissist.
Furthermore let’s turn the abort argument on themselves. They and us are in agreement that abuse of born children is wrong. So by their logic they mud pick up the tab for every abused children in this world and adopt and all that. Or else let the abusers have their way with kids.
Taking care of old people is expensive. Let’s just take them out and shoot them once they rack up too many bills. [/snark]
As far as I can tell, what babies essentially need is to be healthy, engaged in their surroundings, and not pooping all over the house. At least she had the sense not to add “Baby Mozart DVDs” into her list of “essentials”…
My parents gave me baths in the kitchen sink.
Janet, I don’t know of any books, but Feminists for Life offers an excellent magazine: Raising Kids on a Shoestring.
When I had my daughter I was 19, alone, unemployed and broke, broke, broke. I had no support from my mother, either emotionally or financially, and my friends weren’t any more well off than me.
I survived. My daughter’s crib was $8.00 at a thrift store, and most of her clothes came from there as well. It was a struggle to buy diapers and formula sometimes, but we managed. We still struggle, but we made it (my daughter will be 18 this year!).
As someone who has “been there and done that,” I would like to respectfully point something out to those of you who are quick to recommend breast feeding and cloth diapers to struggling young moms:
In our society, both breast feeding and cloth diapering require a certain amount of privilege that young single moms often don’t have. Breast feeding is next to impossible when you have to go back to work as soon as you can. While employers are required to allow moms to pump at work, at lots of low-paying jobs it is next to impossible to do so, and a young woman might not feel empowered enough to speak up and press the issue. A good breast pump is very expensive, and even cost-prohibitive to rent if you’re on a tight budget. Inexpensive ones are unpleasant to use and can quickly cause a mom to just give up.
Cloth diapering is next to impossible without your own washer and dryer. Single working moms don’t have the time or energy to trek to the laundromat every day. We are tired and time-strapped enough! If the baby has to go to day care while mom works, many of them are disposables-only.
Young moms who may have been through it before, or know people who have, are aware of this. Please don’t tell them to “just breast feed. It’s free!” or “Cloth diapers cost next to nothing!” because that’s not the reality of it for a lot of struggling moms. Nothing is worse than getting what sounds like smug advice from someone who is speaking from their own, more privileged experiences. I know that is not the intention at all! But when you are stressed and feeling hopeless already it kind of stings.
Ann Marie
I am right there with you. I had an abortion at 15, then again at 20. There is not a day that goes by that I do not think about them, what they could have been, if they forgive me for what I did to them. I have also spent many, many years in the grasps of alcoholism and self destruction -I am 40 now. God has blessed me with 3 beautiful angels -11. 4 and 2. I don’t know why I deserve to even have them -but if I could go back in time I would do it all different with those other 2 poor innocent babies. I wish I knew then what I know now. Children are priceless. I thank God every day for giving me another chance x 3!!
In our society, both breast feeding and cloth diapering require a certain amount of privilege that young single moms often don’t have.
Len, you’re right. I was able to breastfeed and use cloth diapers, but that was because I had fairly good maternity leave behefits and was able to stay home with my daughter. When we adopted my son, we were able to hire someone to watch him (at some sacrifice, I am not and never have been rich)! If you’re working a minimum wage job and have to get back to work right away, breastfeeding is very difficult. But I agree with what the other posters were saying. The author of this article must have been reading all the chichi parenting magazines featuring designer baby clothing and $500.00 diaper bags. I got much of my children’s clothing from friends and thrift shops. Babies don’t care about being fashionable, they just want to be clean and comfortable!
Thank you for that, Len!!
Nicole,
I just sent you a message.
Yeah, we know, kids cost money…so does the majority of things in the world. Houses can cost anywhere from $50,000 to over a million dollars (depending on what house you get and its condition) and you can spend the next 20-30 years paying a mortgage (depending on how you pay).
But it’s not all about the money. Yes, having money makes things easier in terms of being able to provide, but not everything you provide to a child costs money. It doesn’t cost anything to kneel beside a kid and dry his or her tears. Doesn’t cost one cent to give said child a hug, kiss or a word of love/comfort (I suppose if you injure yourself in the process it, might but not because the act itself costs money).
Yes, you might end up doing laundry more depending on how much clothes you have for your kid and how many blow-out diapers and spit up jobs you deal with. Grown-ups generally have enough clothes to last them a few days to a week, so I wouldn’t worry too much about that laundry.
The medical bills are high, but we paid them off within the first year. (Of course that depends on your source of income).
Nobody ever said kids were cheap and nobody ever said kids weren’t without worry/concern for the parents. What we have always said is that life is precious and abortion isn’t right. We said while cost can be high and things can be hard, it’s worth it all. There are resources for parents, and like people said, places that don’t charge an arm and a leg for things. In fact, there is WAY MORE available to parents NOW than there was when I was born (as far as I can see, anyway).
Great comments! Yep, more money was spent on “getting over my abortion” (monetary and emotional-wise) than raising my 3 boys. I breastfed, we didn’t buy expensive diapers, we buy affordable eco-friendly products from Melaleuca so we didn’t need all the rash creams, we shop at thrift stores (my boys only get underwear, socks, and shoes new), and we received lots of hand-me-downs for the things not received from baby showers. For our groceries, we buy through the church through Angel Food Ministries. We spend $130 to $150 monthly to fill the refrigerator and freezer with food. Despite all this, we qualify for the earned income credit from our kids although husband and I work, so we get a decent refund from the IRS.
Regarding college, my kids will apply for scholarships, and my husband works at a university so the kids have their first four years of college tuition covered.
If anything, having children has definitely motivated me to become very resourceful in keeping our family fed, clothed, in a home, and I couldn’t be any happier. I can’t imagine life without them.
Kelsey says:
April 19, 2011 at 11:35 am
“Janet, I don’t know of any books, but Feminists for Life offers an excellent magazine:Raising Kids on a Shoestring.”
Thank you! And just a “click” away!
“ Nothing is worse than getting what sounds like smug advice from someone who is speaking from their own, more privileged experiences.”
No, nothing is worse than being sold an abortion and then living with the regret for the rest of your life. Oh, wait, I’m wrong, there is something worse: BEING ABORTED.
Wow. Um, here’s my tally for my two kids under two…
Breastfeeding – free
Cloth diapering – about $500 (prefolds, simple covers) used by BOTH children
Clothes – found most at thrift stores for $0.50-2.00 each
Toys – found at rummage sales for about $1-2 each and used by BOTH children
Cribs – found at rummage sales for $100 total
Yes, the water bill has jumped some (we line dry to save money) but honestly I have a hard time believing an infant costs $500-2000 a month to care for. I know breastfeeding doesn’t work out for everyone. That’s why we do donate our formula samples we get to women’s shelters and even buy a can or two to help out the food pantry as well. How can she put a price tag on someone’s life??
OK, ninek, I shouldn’t have used the phrase “nothing is worse.” I agree that an abortion would be worse, of course. It was a poor choice of wording. I should have said “It is demoralizing to get smug advice….”
Pardon me.
How, i wonder did my grandmother and grandfather raise 13 children to be loving independant God fearing adults, on a very well below poverty scratch farmer income?
Well, for one, babies slept in dresser drawers on the floor beside the bed.
Christmas, each child recieves fruit, candy and one small present. My g-father killed a hog to sell so that my mother could afford the materials necessary to attend public high school. These were very poor, but proud self-reliant people. And their children will eternally praise them for being wonderful parents. They didn’t see pricetags on the kids heads, they just loved them.
So yeah, these females on the RH blog are self absorbed whiners.
seriously, for resources?
hipmama survival guide, for single moms
better homes and gardens baby care book
parenting from the heart ( from the motherwear catalogue. it’s about $1 on amazon) (not the psychology book by the same title)
martha stewarts baby magazines. It was really helpful seeing beautiful pictures of dirt cheap things, and well- restored second-hand stuff. emotionally, it’s hard to go from reasonably okay and clean and modern, to the carnival of broken and stained and butt- ugly stuff from the thrift store.
online for diaper stuff. jalie has a diaper pattern. mccall’s and simplicity have terrific infant patterns, you can buy them for a dollar. a sewing machine from kenmore , runs from 100 to 300 dollars. a serger is $300. buying those costs less than diapers for a year. most grandmothers can see the logic of at least a sewing machine. kenmore is more durable than other inexpensive machines.
vicki iovine has a mom’s guide. we used about half her list of stuff. but she’s insanely rich, so it helps if you are rich.
land’s end remainders its canvas bags. they last as a diaper bag, if that’s your thing. otherwise, go with gap or sewing pattern stuff, or even target big purses. the diaper bags mostly have changing pads. it helps to see what they are, or what they are good for. the advertisements try to dazzle, you know?
old navy and gapmaternity go on sale on a regular basis.
belly basics influenced Target. they both have liveable pregnancy clothes.
the thing is, that is part of what you imagine middle class life looking like, not stunned and poor, but clean, well- organized, and so on. it’s hard on the soul and the ego. You can’t just discount that learning curve. be kind, even to the foolish. they are trying , in their own way, to find a good path.
I mean, like, I still don’t go to thrift stores, b/c it has been such a trainwreck. my oldest son has three tee-shirts, one pair of shorts, and one nice shirt. but, there aren’t any nice shirts at the thrift store. they look shabby, at best. it’s hard to go, and spend the day in transit on the bus, to find nothing, or one thing, and then have to tell the child you can’t spend 50 cents on a wretched toy. multiply by three children, 100+ temperatures, and $1 each way per person ( that would be 8 dollars, and hours with no bathroom) to feel a little bit enterprising. I don’t kick moms for saying ” it’s too much.” Relying on social capital- I give the baby clothes to a mom at the park, she gives me clothes from her daughter. I give clothes at church, just for karma- those moms can’t give back, but i took from moms that I couldn’t give to, as well. that is a form of capital exchange. I am mindful that it’s not always replicable for everyone.
It is hard, it is expensive, it takes resourcefulness and endurance and it is character building whether you like it or not. Saying that it is only for the wealthy and established, however, is a monstrous statement. that’s where she goes terribly, terribly wrong. insisting that those giving are obligated to give, or that people will always be on the dole, or at the mercy of others, is bluntly a-historical. Whoopie Goldberg herself, went from multiply aborted, on the dole, to one child on the dole and finding the grace to pull herself up. I don’t think she’d have done that without that last child.
Thanks Ari, for mentioning sewing! I used to make quite a few things for my children, especially special occasion outfits for Easter, school plays, etc. It was not only cheap, but fun! I I am looking forward to making my daughter’s wedding dress someday!
Ari. I am sorry that you are having such a hard time. I agree about thrift stores lots of their stuff is nasty-looking. In many cities there are secondhand stores run by hospitals, etc., and they tend to have nicer clothing than the Salvation Army, etc. Check out your local CPC, they probably have some nicer things available also.
Also, don’t ignore discount stores like Marshall’s. They often have high end baby clothing cheap, and they also have sales. I bought a very nice layette set for my grandson for $8.00.
I have had great luck at thrift stores, but I am lucky that there are several nice ones near me. My daughter has always had a nicer wardrobe than me, and most of it second hand. It is also something I enjoy doing, kind of like a treasure hunt, so it is worth it for me. On the other hand, I really dislike sewing and I’m not good at it. The amount of time and frustration one outfit would take me would would completely negate any money I might be saving!
the thing is, that is part of what you imagine middle class life looking like, not stunned and poor, but clean, well- organized, and so on. it’s hard on the soul and the ego. You can’t just discount that learning curve. be kind, even to the foolish. they are trying , in their own way, to find a good path. – This is so true. You can’t blame any mom for wanting nice things. Everyone wants the best for their child, of course, and it is shocking when you aren’t prepared for everything. But it can be done! My mom never stopped telling me that I couldn’t afford to raise a child, that we would be living in poverty forever and having an abortion would be the best thing. I managed to finish college, finish grad school and go on to have a solid career. We have never been wealthy, and we still shop second hand, but we manage.
And what does your mom say now about her daughter and granddaughter??
No problem, Len, I just couldn’t resist! ;>) !
But seriously, the pro-aborts think a lot of things are worse than dead children: eating ramen noodles, eating mayonaise sandwiches, not having an ipod, not having designer clothes bought first hand at the mall… I guess they could come up with a new bumper sticker: “Better off dead, than not richly overfed!”
Which leads me to my final irony of the day: Michelle Obama, who’s husband is the most pro-abortion president in history & considers their future grandchildren to be a burden and a punishment, Michelle Obama thinks OBESITY is the biggest problem children have. Disconnect, anyone??
Great article by James Taranto in WSJ to explain pro-choicers thinking and their impact:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704004004576271811083131734.html?mod=djemBestOfTheWeb_h
Seems it’s a matter of subtraction.
No wonder their thinking is always in the hole.
They need to go green.
Baby formula, diapers etc aren’t just expensive, they are wasteful.
I am assuming folks have washing machines. It is cheap and easy to wash diapers.
And free and easy to breastfeed.
You can always get baby stuff at garage sales because kids don’t use them for long.
This notion that babies are so expensive that they should be killed instead is so depraved.
I am assuming folks have washing machines. It is cheap and easy to wash diapers. – I have never had my own washer and dryer. Would be nice…
And it is not always easy to breastfeed. See my post above for some obstacles that a mom might face.
Carla – My mother has never forgiven me for becoming pregnant. She loves my daughter and is kind to her, but I am often reminded about how much I shamed her in the eyes of her family and fellow parishoners. If I ever make the mistake of mentioning a difficulty I am having or complaining about finances she will use it as an opportunity to to say “I told you so!” If something goes well for me she refrains from expressing happiness. I sometimes think she might enjoy watching me suffer or struggle.
Bizarro article.
She says that two kids in day care equals her husband’s salary.
And she barely makes enough to cover part time day care.
It is just crazy.
Why have the kids in daycare at all?
Her story sounds like baloney.
I had trouble with breastfeeding and used an Avent hand pump 5x a day for 18 months. Total cost $40 for the pump and $20 for used bottles at garage sales and resale shops. The chick needs to learn some home economics. Life is expensive when you are incompetent.
I’m so sorry about that, len. I have a mother like that. Thank goodness she is no longer a part of my life. I am very proud of you for how you have made a life for you and for your daughter! You have worked hard! Your daughter is worth it.
I often wonder what happens when parents push abortion on their children but those grandchildren arrive on the scene. Do they apologize? Do they figure no one will remember they advocated for the death of that child??
@Hippie — all this time I thought you were a “he!” These expenses sound like they are for a couple from the Main Line or Rittenhouse Square in Philly, or the Upper East Side in NYC — not for average people.
Len, I shamed my family because I was four months pregnant when I got married. I’m not proud of it, but things like this happen. But now they adore their granddaughter.
My mom is also very critical and can be cruel, which is why I keep her at arm’s length. I still don’t think she’s come to grips with having a 2nd trimester abortion which she really didnt’ want. She never talks about it.
I often wonder what happens when parents push abortion on their children but those grandchildren arrive on the scene. Do they apologize? Do they figure no one will remember they advocated for the death of that child?? My mother has never apologized. Her attitude is “I love my granddaughter, but everyone’s life would have been so much easier and better if you had not had her.” She cannot get past the fact that I had sex outside of a marriage. That was the biggest sin, and an abortion would have made sure no one ever knew.
I don’t think she is incompetent, hippie. I think she feels entitled.
‘Nothing is worse than getting advice from people speaking from their own more priviledged experienace’
That’s really insulting, why in the world would you think any of this advice was coming from a ‘more priviledged’ position? Given what I’ve read of replies on previous posts many people posting here were either raised poor and ‘underpriviledged’ or raised their own children on a shoe string. What people are expressing are options for cheaper raising, not a ‘must-do’ list. If something doesn’t work for your situation….use one of the other options. For instance I have/am breastfeeding 2 kids but I use disposables, not because I want to but because my specific situation cloth just didn’t work out. Yet i’d still recommend cloth to a struggling mom, I know other poor women who have made it work very well. With my 1st we did some EC, but wasn’t able to with my 2nd. Sure, there have been some ‘how can we afford diapers?’ weeks, but you manage to make it work. Life is opertunities, death is the end of opertunity. A new birth brings unlimited potential, regardless of circumstance, while an abortion brings NO potential, NO new opertunities, and a great many dead ends.
Oh, and I can always find some nice, clean, and decent clothes at the Salvation Army. You just have to look. Especially in the children’s section. They grow out of stuff so fast the 25 cents shirt at Salvation Army for my 1 year old looks just as good as an $10 one at Target. Not that I would ever spend $10 on an article of clothing!
If you think an infant is expensive just wait til she grows up to be full fledged woman.
If you think childbirth is painful just keep feedinum til they become teenger.
Babies really smell bad a lot til you get them potty trained but if you keep feedinum it starts all over again and males never seem to get potty trained.
Did you read anything I wrote in any of my comments here beyond that one particular line, Jespren?
Great link, Chris. It also lead me to some of his other articles, where I found his very astute observation that the Democrats were willing to shut the government down in order to keep funding their darling, PP. Which means, the Republicans may be pro-life but not as much as the Democrats are pro-abortion.
Len-
When I was in college, working for $6 an hour and raising 2 babies who arrived within 14 months of each other, I lived in an apartment complex with a coin-operated shared laundry which was down a steep flight of stairs, and I still did cloth diapers, because that was all I could afford. I occasionally saved a few quarters by washing a load and then drying them on a line on our patio. I remember being called out of church one day to come to the nursery because they didn’t know how to change my child and assumed she was in cloth because of allergies. I laughed and said no, we’re just poor, and you’re welcome to use the church’s disposable diapers on her if you’d like!
I also breastfed by expressing with a $25 pump I got at Walmart and having hubby bring my babies to work for a few minutes each day so that I could feed them on my lunch break. We worked opposite hours so that we didn’t have to get a sitter. We had no family for 500 miles and didn’t use daycare ever.
It was all tough, but we survived, and are stronger for the experience. It’s that experience in part that fuels me to offer help to the mothers I meet every day at our PRCs.
I am who I am today because of those experiences. Fifteen years later, I wouldn’t change a thing.
I worked and decided against cloth diapering (we have a terrible wash room in our apt complex and the idea of having to use it for cloth diapers was overwhelming at best), but I did nurse both of my sons, both until they weaned themselves (to be fair, both of my boys were done nursing at about 11 months). I used a hand pump rather than an electric because the motors on electric pumps in my price range are awful! However, I know that if you are a struggling parent who is wanting to nurse and work, WIC has programs that offer a wonderful double electric pump. It’s a need-basis thing, however.
Also, I shop the sales. Rarely do I even pay as much as $5 for a new baby item. Old Navy, Target, and The Kid’s Place have some really great deals fairly regularly. There is also always hand-me-downs/craigslist/etc.
My husband and I bought strollers used and the most we spent was $25 on a nice umbrella stroller which has become our go-to stroller. We got a double full size stroller for $20 when we had our second, and a single full size stroller for $15 when we first were starting out.
Carrier/carseat: we did not skimp here. We purchased a nice carseat/carrier for about $80 if I remember correctly and it was probably the most painful expense for us. But the most important in terms of safety!
I don’t know where Robin Marty shops for diapers, but even Pampers and such don’t cost $160/month unless you’re changing your baby too often. Also, many name-brand diapers run coupons constantly. I personally have found an off-brand diaper which I prefer to every other name-brand I’ve used. It’s “Comforts for Baby” and I’ve yet to have a diaper of this brand “explode.” I spend probably $30/month on diapers. $60 maximum.
Washrags, a bathtub (HIGHLY overrated!), blankets, books, toys, a bouncer, etc are all easily obtained at your local goodwill or hand-me-down from friends/family. I have on numerous occasions told people to STOP buying my sons blankets. My linen closet is full of blankets/swaddlers/etc. My husband and I need desperately to throw out some of our sons’ toys. We purchased a big box of books for $30 used, including but not limited to many Dr. Suess, some Busytown, some Eric Carle, and a lovely Peter Rabbit set. When we purchase gifts now, we tend to buy books because they are such an excellent way to spend time with our boys.
I’m not sure where Ms. Marty gets her figures, but $500/month would be very difficult for my husband and myself. While babies cost, they simply aren’t that expensive unless you have some very unique circumstances.
“She cannot get past the fact that I had sex outside of a marriage. That was the biggest sin, and an abortion would have made sure no one ever knew.”
Uh, what? You would know! and that is far worse than anyone else knowing!
Your conscience is with you night and day forever!
You can avoid condescending jerks. Anyway, isn’t that almost like being materialistic by wanting everyone to think she was perfect, and neither she nor her kids ever made a mistake? I mean we all make mistakes. What is with the irrational pride?
That’s great that you have such a supportive husband who is willing to help you Michelle! It would have brought me so much joy to be able to see my daughter for a few minutes during the work day when she was a baby. I would have liked to used cloth diapers as well, but the subsidized daycare center that I used while in college had a disposables-only policy. And to be honest, I didn’t have the energy to go to the laundromat every day with an infant. It was two blocks away! There were coupons in the newspaper every week for diapers, though, and while I don’t remember how much they cost, it was nowhere near the amount the person who wrote this claims to pay. There was no PRC where I lived, that I knew of anyway.
I am who I am today because of those experiences. Fifteen years later, I wouldn’t change a thing. – I say the same thing, but make it 17 years.
Yes Len (Jen, I can’t tell with the type on my cell), I did. Previous and/or further comments does not mean I didn’t find that one offensive. I probably should have put a space break in my reply, as only the first part was really a direct response then I got going on a related topic and ended up somewhere different (which really wasn’t applicable to you). I ramble at times, and doing this on my cell doesn’t make editing easy.
Jespren,
Then you should know that when I said “more privileged” I didn’t necessarily mean financial privilege. A single woman doesn’t have the privilege of a husband to help her, to bring the baby to her work, to do a load of laundry while mom feeds the baby. That is privilege, too.
So is having a job in an industry that is supportive of mothers rights and allows for time for pumping and baby care. Yes, legally all jobs are supposed to, but many low paying jobs are not supportive and will go out of their way make it difficult because it is not advantageous for them to have nursing mothers on the payroll, and the positions they hold are easily filled. A mother with a degree or job experience under her belt has the privilege of support on the job.
By privilege I did not mean money. I meant opportunities and abilities, some of which money can buy. Some it can’t.
Sorry if what I said offended you.
Haven’t read the rest of the comments yet. Bout to do that now.. but I just had to comment first. My husband and I are POOR, POOR, POOR! We don’t have money 2,000 bucks to throw away each month! We don’t even have 50. First, don’t people still have showers? I got everything I needed at my shower. And if you have a bunch of knucklehead friends and family guess who will throw you a shower? CPC’s and pro-lifers! Seen it firsthand!
Diapers are expensive and so is formula so if you can breastfeed, breastfeed! its free! But spending THAT much money on diapers? What a lie! And who is buying that much diaper rash cream? You don’t have to buy a new rattle every month. And this stuff does NOT cost 50 bucks.
Sydney, your comment made me think of a “Rattle of the Month Club,” which made me laugh.
No one threw me a shower, but you know what? I didn’t need half that stuff. I’m still not sure what a “swaddle” is. I have an idea, but I think your baby will be ok with a plain receiving blanket. The hospital gave me two!
I only used Vasaline on my daughter’s butt. Worked fine for us.
Carrier/carseat: we did not skimp here. We purchased a nice carseat/carrier for about $80 if I remember correctly and it was probably the most painful expense for us. But the most important in terms of safety!
Yes, you’re right. You shouldn’t skimp on car seats and be very careful about buying used cribs. They may not fit today’s safety standards.
There are many programs here available for low-income moms, such as WIC. Unfortunately, our “pro-life” Republicans in Congress like to cut funds for such programs, which I find reprehensible.
By privilege I did not mean money. I meant opportunities and abilities, some of which money can buy. Some it can’t.
Like I said, I am not rich, but I was fortunate to have a job which offered paid maternity leave — only for 12 weeks, but I was lucky because my husband had a flexible job and was able to stay home with our daughter for almost two years. It was a wonderful experience for them both!
I am assuming folks have washing machines.
That’s a pretty big assumption. The only people I know who have washing machines are middle-aged or older, and most of them are fairly wealthy.
There are a lot of big assumptions going on in this thread, as has already been pointed out. I am the last person to ever buy into commercialism and “gotta have this”-itis, but it’s very dismissive to say things like that breastfeeding is easy and free. For lots of women it is very hard, and expensive, given that it would require them to lose their income.
That pile of money in front of the baby in the picture? It’s nothing compared to what he or she can earn in a lifetime, and nothing compared to the taxes he or she will pay over a lifetime.
The cost of raising a child has a special name: it’s an INVESTMENT.
“The cost of raising a child has a special name: it’s an INVESTMENT.”
Yes, but in modern states the return on that investment goes not to the parents but to the community. Phillip Longman of the New America Foundation has written on the consequences of this new structure. When folks can expect no retirement benefits from the state, they take a more active approach to recouping their investment directly.
I am assuming folks have washing machines.
“That’s a pretty big assumption. The only people I know who have washing machines are middle-aged or older, and most of them are fairly wealthy.”
Ah, yes, let the nitpicking begin.
I assume they have access to washing machines.
Or do only the wealthy wash their clothes?
“A single woman doesn’t have the privilege of a husband to help her,”
No offense, you seem very kind and sincere.
However, a husband is not a privilege.
A marriage is a contract between two consenting parties. A spouse is not like a parent. For good or bad, we cannot choose our parents. We choose our spouses.
I understand, hippie. I didn’t mean that a husband is a privilege.
I was responding to the context of the Reality Check article, where the author is criticizing pro-lifers for not financially helping pregnant women, and the comments here in response. A husband is not a privilege, but there are benefits and opportunities that come with having a husband when you have a baby. A single girl or woman who finds herself pregnant would be very likely to visit a CPC or abortion clinic where she might encounter a sidewalk counselor. When she expresses concern about money, telling her that breastfeeding=FREE or cloth diapers cost less, while those statements might be true for many, might not be helpful to someone who doesn’t have a partner for support. Not just financially, but for an extra hand and emotional support, too. For example, eariler commenter Michelle told us how her husband brought her baby to her work so that she could breastfeed her. I would consider that a privilege. Something like that couldn’t happen for an unmarried woman working for an unsupportive comany or boss. That’s what I meant by privileges that come with being married, not that the husband himself is a privilege. Though I know some men who seem to consider themselves as such. ;)
Not to get completely off topic, but you can wash cloth diapers without using a washing machine. Of course people had to do it before disposables and washing machines even came about! Plain cotton flats or prefolds would be the easiest to clean (and the cheapest to purchase).
http://www.zany-zebra.com/washing-cloth-diapers.shtml
“not that the husband himself is a privilege. Though I know some men who seem to consider themselves as such.”
LOL, well, yeah, that is true!
I assume they have access to washing machines.
Or do only the wealthy wash their clothes?
Having access to a washing machine is way different than having a washing machine. When I’m at a home that has a washing machine, I can throw a load in and go do other things, come back to it quickly – it doesn’t eat up my whole block of time. Going to the laundromat is another story. I live in a 4th floor walk-up so I have to get everything together, schlep it downstairs, walk a couple blocks, sit there with my book, fold it, walk it back, schlep it back upstairs. I barely get the energy to do it as it is, and I don’t have an infant or a young child to worry about. Doing it every day, with a kid, would probably be, like, a no-go.
It’s not nit-picking to point that out.
Alexandra, you do it now for yourself don’t you?
I grew up in a house that didn’t have a working washing machine all the time… the bathtub became it many days. While in my 20’s broke and no washing machine near me…the bathtub became my only way to wash clothes. Why is it some of you think that modern life is the only life that ever was? Why is it some of you think hardship is not having your life so convenient that heaven forbid you would actually have to put yourself out there to get something done…tell someone in the slums of India how bad you got here…having to walk down a few flights of stairs to walk a few blocks to a washing machine and dryer to get your clothes clean.
A layer of my guilt I had to deal with after my abortion is…I lived a hard life already, I was already doing it for me. I could have done it for my baby and I know I would not have gone down the road of self-destruction I did go down. My baby would have given me a reason to do better and be better.
I have a friend who had two abortions…the second one was twins. She found out she was pregnant for the 3rd time she was determined not to abort this baby. She had gotten a crib from a friend but it needed a mattress. She tells the story of how she carried, carried a baby mattress on her back for a couple of miles through the streets of downtown Minneapolis because she didn’t have a car but wanted her child to have a bed.
I just went to the shoe store and brought a pair of shoes from that baby today. She is 16 beautiful, talented , smart and yes she has always lived in a one bedroom apt with her mom. There were days when she sold her little toys and stuff to her friends so that her mom had laundry money for the washing machine inside their building. Her mom didn’t ask her to do this, she didn’t even knew she did, she did it out of her own will.
So yeah…I guess if you can get over yourself you can bring a baby into this world and have a beautiful life.
You know what else Ann Marie? Children that have everything handed to them often grow up to be self-centered adults who don’t know how to make do with less and change the world for the better. Having less toys or not living in a huge house has not hurt any children. My son is growing up in a small space and he is not the worse for it. I can’t say he has less toys as his grandparents seem intent on buying every toy on the market ;-) but I try to keep my son focused on the things that really matter.
Alexandra,
I have two children. I do laundry most days, but not all. I have a poorly functioning washer/dryer which is meant to function for my family and our 3 neighbor families, but I choose to “schlep” over to the laundromat. I enjoy the privilege of a car, but often my husband and I opt to walk with our two little guys to the laundromat which is about 4 blocks away. It has yet to kill or even mentally damage us. ;)
$40 a week on diapers? Is she buying Ralph Lauren? And $60 a week on formula? Come on. I spent about $35 a month on formula and probably $40 a month on diapers.
I don’t even spend near $2000.00 a month to feed 9 people, even with the incidentals she lists. And I still have one that needs diapers, wipes, creams, etc…
Alexandra, you do it now for yourself don’t you?
Obviously. But if you read my post you will see that I barely muster up the time and energy to do it once a week. If I had a child and had to do it every day just to cloth-diaper, with the child in tow, I would bristle at the CONSTANT description in this discussion of cloth-diapering as a reasonable substitution for disposable in which the only difference is money saved. I support cloth diapering 100% and would hope to be in a position to do it myself should I ever have a child – but it is VERY privileged to think that it’s just interchangeable for many people. Having the time and ability to wash diapers every day is not a position all mothers are in. It is dismissive and willfully blind to act like these choices are the same for everyone.
Mary Rose, I don’t know many people who could fit in a DAILY walk with children to the laundromat, unless they were stay-at-home parents. Which, as has already been pointed out and IS MY POINT AS WELL, is a position not all mothers are in.
Now, whether or not one is able to cloth diaper or must spend money on disposable diapers, that’s still not a valid reason to have an abortion. There is just nothing gained by pretending that these choices are all manageable and feasible for all parents. Different options work best for different people, and some options are more expensive or more difficult, and it’s not a bad thing to realize that. It changes nothing about abortion.
Yes – life is hard, and life as a parent is hard – but we can all help women in need with little and big things. We can help give that woman hope. A good friend is so valuable – and many people make friend with a neighbor, etc. who helps out now and again.
Killing children via abortion because life is hard is not an answer. Being a friend to someone in need is valuable beyond measure. Everyone needs hope and encouragement – especially when people feel life is impossible.
Kindness is never wasted, especially to young mothers.
Stay with me, say baby is peeing and pooping away in cloth diapers, Mom has no machine.Time to hear painted priviledged toes curl…enter a pair of rubber gloves, a dirty diaper, a long wooden stick with a cuphook on the end, a few swishes in a toilet, a 5 gallon lidded bucket and some clorox. wait a few minutes, then a hand wash in a bathub with gloves, followed by drying on a line. Don’t gasp, lots of people either have to, or choose to do this, and the procedure has been around for decades.
Long story short, it ain’t pretty but it sure is do-able, and it won’t kill you. And babies can potty train fairly early with no adverse reactions if given the chance.
No machine, no excuse.
It is a smokescreen blown by some RH females who can’t be bothered, but simultaneously feel the need to justify themselves.
I rather hear them tell the truth and say their children aren’t worth the work.
How do you think women handled children 60 years ago? Get creative, inventive even.
Figure out a way.
I firmly believe all women have within them the ability to adapt, and change thing for the better. One of those ways is to invent, create. The best of those creations is LIFE.
Neccessity was called the Mother of Invention for a reason.
Choose Innovation not Destruction……
Ari, Len, and all the struggling mothers on the board, I wish you lived around me. I would babysit for you and help financially when and if I could. Babies are a challenge even when you have a supportive partner. I admire you and wish you all the best!
Thanks, Phillymiss. My daughter is 17 now and starting college next year! The challenges never end, they just change.
No machine, no excuse.
I don’t know why you think that pointing out that it is HARD to cloth-diaper in some situations is MAKING EXCUSES (for what?). It would be HARD to hand-wash soiled diapers every single day, too. That doesn’t mean it’s not possible – it means IT’S HARD. Things being hard is not an excuse for anything.
The pro-life movement gains nothing by dismissing the very real complaints and difficulties of women whose parenting experiences fall outside what we conventionally think of as “average.” Recognizing those complaints and difficulties does nothing to hinder one’s opposition to abortion. If there were a single mother here who did not have a laundry machine and did not have the time to spend a couple hours a day wrangling her baby over to the laundromat and back, but who found diapers too expensive, I wouldn’t say, “Cloth diaper! After the initial investment it’s virtually free!” I would find out where she’s getting her disposable diapers and point her in the direction of either better shopping choices or a community group that can help.
It is not a fallacy to point out that cloth diapering is not a viable, feasible option for some women. It is not whining and it is not complaining. It is reality. It IS a fallacy to use the fact that cloth diapering is not a viable option as an excuse for abortion. Which no one here has done.
Whoops, Len — I guess she doesn’t need a sitter anymore!
Alexandra,
You’re absolutely right that cloth diapering can be a challenge. It isn’t a challenge I chose to take on. ;)
But I think most of the posters weren’t arguing that cloth diapering is the ultimate solution to abortion. I think the argument was more along the lines of, cloth diapering is a better option financially and not an impossible suggestion. Maybe I’m misinterpreting though.
MaryRose – I was initially responding to hippie’s assumption that most people have washing machines. That’s not a valid assumption, and when you get to people who are really counting every penny and thus feeling the sting buying disposables, it’s even less likely to be applicable. And while it IS possible to cloth-diaper without a washing machine (thank goodness! I hope to be able to do it myself someday, if I ever have kids!) it is also not as simple a solution as I saw being assumed.
Only a small minority of kids on this planet have ever been diapered with disposables. Ironically they are also the kids whose parents have the best access to sanitation like washing machines, detergents, flush toilets, etc.
Even cloth diapering families use paper diapers sometimes, because they are more convenient for travel, etc.
Still, a contemporary family with toilet, sink and tub still has better ability to launder than the very many families in the world and history that don’t have those facilities.
Probably harder than lack of laundry facilities on families in poor nations is the brokenness of so many families in the affluent countries. I think most of us would rather be part of a loving family than to be isolated if we had to choose.
I definitely agree with your last comment, hippie!
Is every “sidewalk counselor” and anti-abortion politician ready to really take on the financial commitment that an infant represents? Or do they want to continue saying a car seat, a jug of formula and a box of Pampers is all a woman really needs?
If the baby doesn’t smoke or drink, some savings are realized right there….
LOL Doug thanks for bringing some humor!!!
$24,000 a month? That’s a yearly salary for some people!! Clearly this person has their figures all wrong. (Unless they’re shopping like celebrities – gold lined diapers anyone?)
Amber,
While her figures are still way off, the original quote was 500-2000 a month and 6000 to 24000 a year.
This article reflects the pure nonsense of what we have become. Then I reflect over my life and compare it to the lives of my foreparents. We have more modern conveniences than most of the world in the US. The poorest people in our nation are considered blessed and “rich” compared to most of the world. My great-grandparents, grand-parents (some of them may have had a 6th grade education if that much)and my parents were considered “dirt poor” but they NEVER considered killing their unborn “a civil right” or the answer to solving their “poverty problem” because they knew it wasn’t right to do so, no matter how poor they were. Most developed countries of the world including the US consider it a “woman’s right” to kill her unborn child for any reason yet we consider ourselves so “enlightened and educated”. What a crock! What an appropriate title for this article “killing is cheap; buying diapers is expensive”. Good grief. May God help us. Our priorities are so screwed up. Talk about a “poverty of values” we definitely have it. “CHOOSE LIFE, that you and your seed may live. Many pro-aborts consider it better to be dead than to be poor, poor is circumstantial and often can be temporary, dead is irrevokable and permanent.
For some of us, her figures are much closer to our actual expenses. There are families I know who have children with special needs, and their therapies, medications, etc. are very expensive. We have adopted two of our six children, and we are paying back a 401K loan (taken out to cover some of the fees) to the tune of several hundred dollars per month. Breastfeeding isn’t always an option; I induced lactation with one of my adopted children, but it didn’t come close to what he needed for very long. Some of the little ones I know who were both with Down syndrome weren’t able to latch on well.
I am not saying these things in order to argue. I am 100% prolife. I just think that some of the comments above ignore the serious realities facing some families and babies. In response to the original article’s comment about every pro-lifer being willing to shell out $20K for each child saved from abortion, I have this to say: my youngest is one of those very children, and it was MORE than $20K that was needed to cover all of the adoption-related expenses. And, we are more than willing to do it again.
Certain family members don’t understand why we adopted babies who look nothing like us, who did not receive the greatest APGAR scores at birth, but who “cost” so much more. I just shake my head at them and thank my Heavenly Father for paying a much higher price to adopt me even though I hadn’t done anything to deserve it. I cannot picture getting to my “retirement” – although I hope I don’t ever have to retire from being a mom – and thinking, “Whew! I am so glad we did not adopt again! This boat is so much better!” I hope that, in time, those who question will gain an understanding of the proper usage of money for God’s Kingdom purposes.
My husband and I cannot imagine a better way for us to use the time, talents, and treasure which God has given to us than to adopt more children and assist others in doing the same, along with giving to organizations who help those families with children who have special needs. Though we will go through life making sacrifices as all parents do, we have no doubt that God’s calling for us to raise children for His glory is worth everything we put into it.
God bless you Eilleen. Thank you and your husband for your prolife mission to special needs kids.