Click to enlarge…
Finally, I’m admittedly not a big fan of abortion (at least not as a tool of simple reproductive convenience – at least I’m glad my mother decided not to abort me), so I am trying to find ways to make this picture OK in my mind.
But let’s be clear: THIS PICTURE IS DISTURBING.
~ Dr. Boyce Watkins criticizing the “picture of a group of teen moms proudly sporting their baby bumps on Facebook,” News One, April 28
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Being pregnant is disturbing?
No – that’s not the problem. Being pregnant without a committed husband is disturbing.
The real problem Dr. Watkins, is the replacement of the biological daddy with the daddy state.
In other words you’re watching “reproductive choice” being turned on you. Those are your children in there. That’s what you find disturbing. You fear having to provide for them.
My prayer is those young ladies mature and become strong and independent, but most of all find the Lord Jesus Christ and learn to walk in his ways.
Chris, right on. Abortion was never part of the equation for these girls, as these are purposely conceived children, but I wonder: how many of these girls had a strong father in their lives to teach them the worth of marriage, fidelity and commitment. My guess? None.
Chris, I think the author of the article agrees with you.
I encourage everyone to read the entire article. Interesting viewpoint.
From the article:
“What saddens me about this picture is not the fact that these women are young mothers. A child is a blessing, no matter how it gets to this earth. What bothers me the most is that these women have no idea what they are getting into, and most of them are too young to realize how the children they claim to love so much are going to suffer for decades because their parents brought them into the world with the odds stacked squarely against them.
Engaging in the powerful act of sex obviously requires education and preparation that we are not taking seriously enough. Wearing protection and being selective about where you share your body are critical parts of the parenting process. If you spread your seed or womb to just anyone because they look good, drive a nice car or say the right things, then you are asking for all the problems that come with creating a life with that person. Few of us make plans to make a baby, but all of us know when we are planning to have sex. So, the first key to parental responsibility is actually sexual responsibility.”
I do have one other serious issue with the use of contraception. Contraception use is disproportionately more of a preoccupation of women. It shifts the decision making of family planning from a joint decision or even the husband’s/man’s decision onto women. This shift in the authority of the decision making for family planning purposes changed the dynamics of the husband/wife relationship. Women need to know that in most scenarios even if they consult with the man about contraception he is going to agree because he has been conditioned by society to treat the issue of contraception as a women’s issue. “Afterall,” he reasons, “men don’t get pregnant.” There has been an utter abdication of responsibility by men in planning their families, and women have been complicit in this abdication because women were enticed by the power/control that contraception gave them. To me, the power/control issues of contraception are not discussed enough in our society. For the most part, there has been no or little popular discussion about this change in the dynamics of the male/female relationship due to contraception. Men in long-term relationships or marriages should not blindly trust a woman who uses contraception. The use of contraception by a woman should be red flag to a man indicating that he needs to have a discussion about family planning with this woman and about whether he is going to ever have any say in the family planning matter.
Now to tie this comment into the above scenario. I believe it is the desire for power and control (which the contraceptive mentality has produced even in women who don’t contracept!) that sometimes influences young women to get pregnant out-of-wedlock. I realize this is completely contrary to the popular notion that these women are victims or naive. Some of these girls may want a family, but sometimes they want to manipulate the young boy in their life and use pregnancy in the hopes to keep him around. The young men/fathers hopefully had conversations with these women before engaging in sex and knew what these girls were planning.
If only these girls had comprehensive sex ed and condoms thrown at them!! Oh right, they wanted to get pregnant, like tons of poor teen mothers.
That being said, pregnancy is not disgusting, it is the most natural thing in the world. Like the other posters stated, it is disgusting that, statistically speaking, these girls grew up without fathers in the home, and they are continuing the ugly cycle for their own children.
Lrning–I think THAT should be the quote of the day!
Sexual responsibility for teenagers is abstinence.
Giving kids condoms or hormonal bc is a mixed message. It is not only inviting them to engage in sexual activity, but it implicitly tells them that pregnancy is bad. It will make them think abortion is ok, or at least better than pregnancy. Conctracepting is the wrong thing to be telling kids.
Tyler- well said. The Nobel-prize winning economist George Akerlof has extensively documented what you said re: contraception becoming a woman’s issue, and has tied it to the rise in abortions and single motherhood. If you haven’t, I suggest reading his work. Very interesting.
Thanks Adair. I will look into reading Mr. Akerlof’s work.
For the record, teaching kids abstinence doesn’t mean teaching kids never to talk about sex. Quite the contrary, it means they should actively talk to their peers about why they believe in abstinence, why they think it is good thing, and what benefits it provides to them. Abstinence is a healthy choice.
Tyler says:
Sexual responsibility for teenagers is abstinence.
Amen.
I don’t expect a lot of agreement with comments about the control issues created in women who use contraception because I know a lot of the women who come to this site consider themselves to be pro-life feminists and not just pro-life women. The difference between a pro-life woman and a pro-life feminist is, IMO, that the pro-life feminist supports the idea of women have complete and sole responsibility for family planning decisions while the pro-life woman is more family oriented and more inclusive of the man’s role in family planning.
Sexual responsibility for teenagers is abstinence.
Abstinence only education is not effective. The states that have abstinence only have the highest incidence of teen pregnancies. The poster child for abstinence only education is Bristol Palin. I attended a Catholic school in the mid 1960’s where we were taught that sex before marriage was a huge sin. By the time we were seniors, most of us were sexually active. If kids are going to be sexually active, they should have all the necessary information relating to birth control – which includes abstinence. They should also be taught about sexually transmitted diseases – which includes a discussion of condoms. If you religious folks out there think that your bible school children are not having sex, you are very, very naive. Oh, and I forgot. The gals at my school who got pregnant were the ones whose boyfriends didn’t use protection!
@Lrning: I agree, it’s an interesting article and well worth a read. The author says a lot of pro-abortion sounding things (he seems to have that “right time to have a baby” mentality that can be so problematic) and I was going to get mad at him for pregnancy-shaming. But he does, eventually, make it clear that the pregnancy is not the issue he wants to address. He gets there kind of sloppily, and I would’ve liked for him to use more cautious language, to avoid even looking like he was pregnancy-shaming, but that’s not nearly so bad as what I was afraid of and a lot better than I’ve seen from many others.
Well folks, it was only a matter of time, I suppose.
CC, you and your sad Catholic school childhood! Wait, let me wipe the tear before I start typing again…….
Ok, I’m back. I am going to clue you in on something: kids may want information, ok, but what they want even more is love expresses thru limitations. They CRAVE structure. They want to know where you stand as a parent or educator, they want to know what you think is important.
Well, I’m a mom and I was once a sexually active teenager, and here’s what I know:
Teenage sex is unhealthy. Condoms, pregancy, bc failure rate, etc…we all get that. What I’m talking about is emotional and spirtitual health. I can say with certainty to every teenager: Sex is a bad, bad idea. Not just for some, but for ALL, in varying degrees. Because for a sexual union to work, it must be mature and just. There is no condom for the heart, there is no PLan B for the regret, remorse and guilt.
We do not do well by our children by giving them condoms. We INJURE them greivously by giving them birth control. Let’s do the hard work, which necessarily entails a healthy education in delayed sexual experience, self respect, and self care.
Please don’t project your own failures upn us, CC.
CC. you talked a lot about your school teaching abstinence. Did your parents talk to you about abstinence? Did you feel supported at school and at home?
+1 to Tyler: “Sexual responsibility for teenagers is abstinence.”
Beyond that, there is the matter of dignity. Present abstinence is part of a future plan to find a partner who is committed to sharing a life with you and creating new life with you…. and being present to share the joys and work of caring for those children.
Sex outside of that commitment is sex without dignity. We need to teach kids not to be so cheap with themselves and each other.
To CC,
Ah yes, the ol “they’re gonna do it anyway” argument. Thats a classic. They’re gonna do it anyway so lets load them up with condoms and pills and make sure they know where to get the abortion when those fail. While we’re at it, let’s get rid of murder laws and lets teach them about the best ways to kill someone born, and we’ll distribute free weapons to all, because you know, they’re gonna do it anyway. And let’s stop locking everything, because people are going to steal anyway. You’re right, lets do that and not teach them to respect themselves and others.
It’s sadly amazing how the same old tired rhetoric just recycles through the mouths of pro-aborts.
“CC. you talked a lot about your school teaching abstinence. Did your parents talk to you about abstinence? Did you feel supported at school and at home.”
My father was a strict Catholic who upheld the church’s teaching. My mother, a business professional, was very progressive and pragmatic and didn’t subscribe to all the church’s teachings. Thus, she taught me about condoms and “the rhythm system” which was great as I was able to have a total relationship with my Catholic college attending boyfriend. I was thus able to teach my friends about this and they were grateful.
“Sex outside of that commitment is sex without dignity.”
You do realize that this kind of statement reinforces the notion that those who are pro-life are seriously deluded. Sex outside marriage can have lots of dignity while at the same time it can be just plain fun. Always was and always will be.
And CWK – care to discuss abstinence in terms of the real data out there instead of making ludicrous comparisons to sex education and criminal laws. And let’s talk criminal, shall we? It’s criminal to let kids loose in the real world without the information to protect them, if not from unintended pregnancy, but from STD’s and AIDS. And if they don’t know how to protect themselves, they will infect others. Let’s talk criminal, shall we. Yeah, keep kids ignorant. It’s worked so well, hasn’t it CWK. But please, explain why the abstinence states have high rates of teenage pregnancy. Please rebut all the clinical data about the ineffectiveness of abstinence only education.
I think that’s the dilemma about the photo of these girls. We sure don’t applaud teens getting pregnant out of wedlock. Yet, as pro lifers, we love babies, we love these young ladies (using that word loosely given their unladylike photo), and we don’t want them to have an abortion. And as a mother I’d even throw in that I don’t want to see contraceptives thrown at them as the Ultimate Panacea to cure all the world’s ills. Abstinence may seem like a panacea, but it has the following features: #1, it works every time it’s tried. Zero failure rate. #2 It is life-giving to the person who practices it. It keeps them out of morass-type relationships. It eliminates from the field of possible mates those who are unworthy of them. #3 It’s better for the psyche. How hard it is to recover from serial sexual relationships! For all these reasons, what I’d like for those young ladies is The Best. I think they can do it. I think their worth it.
Chris, right on. Abortion was never part of the equation for these girls, as these are purposely conceived children, but I wonder: how many of these girls had a strong father in their lives to teach them the worth of marriage, fidelity and commitment. My guess? None.
Probably not very many. And the fathers of these children probably didn’t either. It’s not politically correct to say so, but children need a strong male role model in their lives. Seventy-two percent of black children are born of wedlock, in the sixties is was 20 percent. It seems to be getting worse before it gets better.
CC, I went to a Catholic school that taught abstinence in the late seventies. There was a rumor that one girl got pregnant and had an abortion, but “doing it” was looked down upon back then. This school was so strict that you could be expelled for smoking. So apparently some of that Catholic teaching sunk in.
LMAO @ ‘thus I was able to have a total relationship’. Yeah, no relationship is ever total without sex, huh, CC. Moronic quote of the day.
We don’t want to send our kids out into the world ignorant. Actually, it’s the veryoopposite. Children should know biology, they should know their bodies, they should know what’s waiting for them. They should also know that there are women out there at PP, or ones like CC, who are under the delusion that there is such a thing as consequence-free sex. Abstinence can be a very powerful message to a young woman who is continually deluged by the modern idea that a piece of latex will take care of you, especially since your sexuality is going to be exploited everywhere you turn. Sorry CC, but I am going to teach my daughter her dignity, self worth, and beauty. So when she is approached by any and all guys who tell her “Take your pants down and I’ll show you what real love is,” she can laugh and walk away. Because better things are coming: like trust, commitment, partnership, and life.
Sorry you didn’t ever have anyone to teach you this. It shows.
CC,
As a former Catholic school student, I can assure you then we were taught everything there is to know about sex, contraception, AIDS, etc. You make the false assumption that the information about these things is being hidden by pro-lifers. It isn’t. They’re more than aware it. Criminal? Ha, you’re a drama queen. They’re getting the info. It’s your attitude towards sexuality that separates you and me. Giving your body away to any ol person for a fun hookup completely ignores the fact that the vast majority of pregnancies that result from this Disneyland sex end up in an abortion clinic with a lifetime of regret and pain. Really in the days of the internet and they’re not getting the info? Your arguments reflet that of the bitter 60’s free-love child that you seem to be.
But Courtnay, prochoice doesn’t want kids ignorant either! They were good enough to provide this handy guide to HIV positive teens on how to get laid without revealing your HIV status
http://www.ippf.org/en/Resources/Guides-toolkits/Healthy+happy+and+hot+text.htm
because they understand, like CC, that no relationship is ‘total’ until you’re being used sexually.
What a crazy world we live in.
Engaging in the powerful act of sex obviously requires education and preparation that we are not taking seriously enough. Wearing protection
blah blah blah, just bring in the pp indoctrination and throw condoms at them, sure. 40 plus years of THAT is really working. Working to make Cecile rich that is.
I diagnose our troll with Chronic Abortionitis: the chronic condition of an enlarged love for abortion.
Healthy, Happy and Hot??
How ’bout DEAD??
With the risk of poisoning Courtnay’s cred with my endorsement, I second and support her way of teaching her daughter.
This picture is disturbing to proaborts for one simple reason-these girls are (shriek!) not old enough for motherhood by prochoice standards, but more than old enough for abortion by prochoice standards.
Alice, I think the article does verge on pregnancy-shaming, but offers sound arguments for not turning babies into commodities or accessories. I think the young women should be applauded for wanting children and for not aborting the children, although there are other extenuating factors of to each of their situations that can and do have other moral implications.
The positive attitude to life is something that should be supported and trumpted.
CC,
Fine, let’s talk information for kids. Let’s talk about turning them loose in the world without all the knowledge they need. Let’s start by telling our kids the truth they don’t want to hear; the truth, frankly, the adults don’t want to hear and don’t want to live.
SEX MAKES BABIES. It’s designed to do that. That’s what it’s for. Yes, it’s pleasurable, fun, enjoyable, bonding, uniting, and all of that, but it’s primary function is REPRODUCTION. You cannot successfully separate the procreative aspect of sex from its unitive aspect. Not ever, not completely. CONTRACEPTION FAILS.
You know what doesn’t fail? Self-control. Self-respect. The awareness of another person’s dignity. Respect for human life. These are the real tools our kids need before we turn them loose in the world. Latex is not going to protect them. Artificial hormones are not going to protect them. THEY will protect themselves by using their common sense, good judgment, and most of all, some self-control, restraint and respect.
There’s no such thing as ‘safe sex” if that sex happens outside the marriage bond. Sex is not just a physical recreational past-time. It has emotional, mental and spiritual consequences. None of those effects will be mitigated by condoms or pills. If we give a damn about our kids and their well-being, we’ll start considering them as a whole person, not a “sexual being” with “rights” to explore their sexuality, as though it’s merely a separate category in their lives that has nothing to do with anything else. Promiscuous sex is destructive in so many ways, but we walk around with our eyes and ears covered, not wanting to acknowledge that fact because, heaven forbid, we should have to say NO to our sexual urges.
Our children need to be taught that what they want and how they feel is not the most important thing in the world. There are higher goods; higher rights; and higher obligations. They do not exist merely for themselves and for their own enjoyment. The body is not something to be used by others, but something sacred. SEX IS SACRED. It is beautiful, not dirty; it is holy, not animalistic; it is meant to be treasured, not given away to just anyone.
Condoms and Pills are not the solution to anything. In fact, they have taught our children to use each other for gratification, to engage in sex when they have no business doing so, to risk making babies when they cannot take care of babies, all while relying on “protection” to protect them from their immaturity and selfishness. Wow –what a great plan. Hard to understand why it’s not working.
I definitely would not have used the word “disturbing” to describe the picture.
Great post MQ and Jen.
Actually on this article I think President Obama’s former pastor Jeremiah Wright’s old quote is appropriate “America’s chickens have come home to roost.” Teens are just emulating what main stream media, PP, Hollywood, sexually “liberated” adults like Oprah “shacking up” Winfrey, rappers, their culture and NEA public educationites are demonstrating to them. The messages are: “you have to have sex”, “have sex whenever you want with whoever you want”, “you have reproductive rights” (oops, they mean the right to abort, not to procreate…oh well), be “Healthy, Happy and Hot”, “it’s all about you” ”marriage is just a piece of paper” and ”you don’t need to be married to have children”. Teens get the message loud and clear, if there are no rules and abstinence until marriage is “lame” and marriage doesn’t mean anything they will just take the message and run with it.
Tragic story of young women who don’t know how valuable and precious they are, their future’s are, their body, mind and spirits are nor how precious their children are.
That’s the problem with safe sex: it’s only practiced by responsible people. We can try our best to reach the irresponsible ones before they ruin their lives, but some people will only realize the error of their ways in hindsight. In a few years, each one of these girls will look back and wish she had used protection or had an abortion while she still could. My heart breaks for them.
Oh hello delusion. These girls may regret making this deliberate decision to have sex and get pregnant so young and out of wedlock, but they are not going to look at their children and say, “damn, I wish I had killed you when I had the chance.” This is the abortion lover’s wet dream to fantasize that deep down everyone is as selfish as they are.
As for what works, I do believe that studies have shown that as far as sex education in schools, nothing really works if by “works” we mean affects the spread of std’s and pregnancy. ‘Comprehensive’ sex ed fails just as much as absitence ed. That’s b/c the classroom is a poor poor substitute for the family. That’s where kids really learn these values and incorporate them into behavior. But I’m sure if we just throw more money at sex ed programs, it’ll eventually work, amirite.
“Oh hello delusion. These girls may regret making this deliberate decision to have sex and get pregnant so young and out of wedlock, but they are not going to look at their children and say, “damn, I wish I had killed you when I had the chance.”
This makes absolutely no sense. They won’t look at their children and say “I wish I had an abortion” but they might look at their children and say “I wish I hadn’t conceived at all”? What is the practical difference?
” ‘Comprehensive’ sex ed fails just as much as absitence ed. That’s b/c the classroom is a poor poor substitute for the family. That’s where kids really learn these values and incorporate them into behavior. But I’m sure if we just throw more money at sex ed programs, it’ll eventually work, amirite.”
Okay, your snark has persuaded me. From now on, let’s just tell kids to go learn about this stuff from their parents. And if they have a lousy family life and don’t have anyone they can talk to, then tough. They’ll just have to learn about safe sex from watching internet porn, because conservatives don’t like comprehensive sex education and think it’s a waste of money and a moral abomination.
This is only tangentially related, but I used to go on Yahoo! Answers a lot, and would see posts by teen girls having strong maternal urges and wondering about having a baby. My answer to them was always something like this: “There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a mom. And statistically, the odds are in your favor; if you want to be a mom, you probably will be someday! So be the best mom you can be for those future kids. Right now, that means going to school and setting yourself up to earn a decent income. Think of it as ‘pre-parenting.’ By focusing on your academic endeavors for now and delaying conception, you are being a great mom.”
A lot of girls found that perspective helpful. Maybe it’s something y’all can use in your pro-life counseling :-)
“In a few years, each one of these girls will look back and wish she had used protection or had an abortion while she still could.”
Or each girl could look back and wish she had waited until marriage, preventing the need to protect or abort. Or she could make the best of a bad situation and rejoice in the birth of her child.
As far as the argument, “what’s the difference?” between aborting and not conceiving in the first place, the difference is death.
One is acknowledging that making a deliberate decision to become a single teenage mother was harder than you thought. The other is wishing you had killed your child. Very different.
I’m not trying to persuade you and I’m not against kids learning the biological facts about sex and reproduction. But I’m not going to sit here and pretend that the act of teaching that in a school is going to have a significant impact on pregnancy rates or std transmission. Because I like to dwell in reality. And the reality is that to the extent we have “lousy families” and “broken homes” we are going to have these problems regardless of how much money we throw at sex ed programs. And the more you try to substitute the government (via schools) for the family, the more failure you will have in these areas regardless of whether you’re spouting abstinence or free condom wearing, abortion backed sex. They both fail. So schools should stick to what they can do and teach the biological facts of sex and we should stop wasting money on the rest.
what kind of logic does CC use? it is the easy way to look at things. Do not take responsaiblity for yourself and others..use a condom. don’t want a baby, abort it. i guess as a teenager. you can f88ck around, but without the consequences because there is a pill, a suction tube, saline solution, and a condom to rid of a baby, or prevent a child..i keep wondering about our society where there seems to be moral structure or compass..just do want feels good, because if it gets too real, kill or take a pill.
what kind of logic does CC use?
Trust me, don’t ponder that one too much. It will be hazardous to your health.
what kind of logic does CC use?
She doesn’t use any, logic isn’t important to her type.
Sexing up the kiddies is all part of the abortion lobby’s agenda, as we all know. Feminists wanted their sexual revolution, and they got it-when the inevitable teen pregnancies result, they refuse to own it, except as a tool to increase abortion numbers and profits and further the perpetual victimhood of women. Care and feeding of the resulting human beings that aren’t killed by abortion, they happily leave to those despised taxpayers and Christian charities. Pass the buck and the blame to someone else. Because-the war on women. Uh huh. Where are the defenders of reproductive choice when teenage girls need extra help during their pregnancies? Busy trashing pregnancy centers and offering no alternatives except abortion. Prochoice is a dead end street. Literally.
“In a few years, each one of these girls will look back and wish she had used protection or had an abortion while she still could.”
I don’t know, because in many poor communities, having children at a young age is the norm. If your mother, aunt, sister, etc., had a baby at 15, you probably won’t think there’s anything wrong with it. I have had families on my caseload who have been with the agency for two or three generations. It’s a shame.
“These girls may regret making this deliberate decision to have sex and get pregnant so young and out of wedlock, but they are not going to look at their children and say, “damn, I wish I had killed you when I had the chance.””
We seriously have to stop acting like some women are not going to regret not having an abortion. My mom did, a darn good portion of the street kids I know had mothers who regretted them and wished they didn’t exist. It seems like pro-lifers want to act like that doesn’t happen, like I and other people dont exist. We do, and it’s a problem to be addressed, not ignored.
Want to tell me how putting on or taking off a condom will stop STDs when one of the persons has an STD? Touch a sore and ‘pass it on’. Yikes!!!
http://www2a.cdc.gov/stdtraining/ready-to-use/Manuals/hpv/hpv-notes.pdf
The CDC speaks of Genital Human Papillomavirus Infection in their “STD Curriculum for Clinical Educators” slide 23. HPV locations, “Pubic area, upper thighs, or crural folds in men and women. …
warts … may be secondary to autoinoculation, sexual activity other than intercourse, or spread from a nearby genital wart site” and “warts can occasionally cause lesions on oral, upper respiratory, upper GI, and ocular locations. Patients with visible warts can be infected simultaneously with multiple HPV types.”
http://www.ashastd.org/learn/learn_gonorrhea.cfm
“Gonorrhea > Questions & Answers … How is it transmitted?
Gonorrhea … can be passed when the mucous membrane, the soft skin covering all the openings of the body, comes into contact with the mucous membrane secretions or semen of an infected person. …
Even a woman who has not had anal sex can get gonorrhea in the anus or rectum if bacteria are spread from the vaginal area, such as when wiping with toilet paper.
Eye infections in adults may result when discharge caries the disease into the eye during sex or hand-to-eye contact.”
http://microbiology.suite101.com/article.cfm/oral_herpes_infections
“Herpes infections can be spread from one area to another (autoinoculation). Touching a cold sore can cause herpes of the finger if the virus finds a wound, lesion or other area of damaged skin through which to enter. Herpes of the finger is known as herpetic whitlow.” There is a picture of the area around the eye of a person with herpes conjunctivitis. Oral Herpes Infections Feb. 7, 2008 Judy Arbique
…”we were taught that sex before marriage was a huge sin. By the time we were seniors, most of us were sexually active.”
Yes, and you were just the kind of girl that desparate guys like me were hoping we would meet. After tokin on a couple of joints and guzzling a few beers even the most homely honey looked luscious.
We were just a bunch of slutty whores hoping to hook up with a gal just like you.
We were always on the look out for babes like you cause we wanted to assist ya’ll in exercisin all your ‘reproductive rights’.
We did not go to church buildings when we were on the hunt. We went to more ‘target rich’ environments to find compliant consorts.
Wow, Ken. I always thought that the “Madonna/whore”complex was a buncha pseudoscientific bs, but then you surprise me with a simply amazing textbook example!
I knew plenty of church girls and boys who slept around. There doesn’t seem to be much of a difference.
Ken, lets be honest here. You’re clearly being creepy on purpose. There’s no other explanation.
JB,
Today, in the second decade of the 21st century, you may be correct about ‘church kids’, but in the 50’s and 60’s when I was a student things were not quite so bohemian.
JDC,
Being ‘creepy’ was NOT my purpose.
Today, in this millenium, the playing field has been leveled and gals can be just as opportunistic and predatory as guys when it comes to sex.
But even the most liberated bohemian does not like to be associated with ‘whores’.
[I use the term ‘whore’ in a non-gender specific manner.]
Self control is a virtue that should be valued, not vilified. [One of the ‘fruits of Holy Spirit is ‘self control.]
Being proud of having casual, indiscriminate sex is not a behavior that should be extolled.
cc wants to recruit a multitude to follow her in her folly.
She wants us to bless her bawdiness.
She is free to do whatever with whomever, but we are not obligated to applaud her or remain respectfully silent.
I played the ‘whore’ when I was young and foolish, but even an old fool has more wisdom than a young one.
Prov 9:13-18 13 The foolish woman is noisy; she is simple and open to all forms of evil, she [willfully and recklessly] knows nothing whatever [of eternal value].
14 For she sits at the door of her house or on a seat in the conspicuous places of the town,
15 Calling to those who pass by, who go uprightly on their way:
16 ‘Whoever is simple (wavering and easily led astray), let him turn in here!’ And as for him who lacks understanding, she says to him,
17 ‘Stolen waters (pleasures) are sweet [because they are forbidden]; and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.’ [Prov 20:17.]
18 But he knows not that the shades of the dead are there [specters haunting the scene of past transgressions], and that her invited guests are [already sunk] in the depths of Sheol (the lower world, Hades, the place of the dead). AMP
What is the problem with the picture? A young woman gets pregnant. Others do, too. They share the excitement.
This has been happening throughout human history.
What is “bad” is that “we” educated. liberal elites recognize that “we” will have to support “them.”
“Them:” not-white, and low income.
If that picture looks bad to anyone, it is because we see it thru our lenses of racism and classism.
“We” civilized people know “we” should avoid pregnancy while having sex early in our reproductive years, because “we” are enlightened.
What we really know is that “we,” versus “they,” have a fair guess that, with only a couple children, “we” will likely have our children survive us, be prosperous, and take care of us, and carry on our family name. This is an unprecedented luxury of our recent human history:
A society that rests upon so much wealth that we expect our corner of the world to stay stable enough to predict the future of our offspring decades in advance.
“We” then put our predictions for the future on “them,” and see problems: “they” will require some portion of our personal and collective wealth; “they” will spoil, to some degree, our expectations of future stability and comfort.
I have this discussion with people every now and then. Across human history, it has been normal for females to begin having children in the second half of their teens, and normal to have more than two children.
We are the historical anomaly. But we get to put our lifestyle views on the rest of the world because we can – because we are in the higher classes. We control education, research, elections, policy, etc.
When “they” were slaves, we were happy for “them” to get pregnant – because “we” had more wealth coming our way from that new laborer. Now, we see “them,” and see dependency. Then, we label it as “immoral.” If only “they” saw the world the way “we” do – better build the school curriculum!
“We seriously have to stop acting like some women are not going to regret not having an abortion”
Jack, you’ve talked many times about how painful your childhood was in part (though not exclusively) b/c your mother said she wished she had aborted you. So I say the following hesitantly and with the utmost respect for you. Wouldn’t you agree that women wishing their children were dead, as a consistent desire rather than than a passing thought during a difficult moment, is something of the exception rather than the rule? Not to say that those women don’t exist or that they don’t exist in a higher than normal proportion in the at risk population you deal with, but that on the whole across the population of women, it would be a bit delusional to expect that as a matter of course, women will wish that they had killed their children the way Joan assumes they will? That was my point to her. She says her heart breaks for these girls, but her heart really breaks b/c they didn’t get abortions. Her heart would not break for them in the painful aftermath of that choice. As for the women who legitimately continue to wish their children harm and wish that they were dead, I am fully in support of doing all we can as a society to get those children out of harms way and getting the women help if there is something that can be done to help them. But I don’t think we need to indulge the argument that we can generally expect women facing difficult pregnancies to eventually look at their children and wish they were dead.
http://cregs.sfsu.edu/article/abstinence_only_failure_latest_research_shows
this is the article CC that attempts to claim abstinence only education doesn’t work.
It is really sad that they are linked at all to SFSU!!! But the same university has drag queen fashion shows and is utterly counter-education on many other fronts, expecially in regards to sex-ed. So for them or any one else to state that abstinence only education programs don’t work, speaks to their own experiences with sex and should not be used in blanket statements.
These young women in the picture might not have wedding rings on their fingers, but at least they have a community. They may not have college degrees but they are contributing to American profitability in people profits! They and their fruit are as valued as any rich man and his fruit. It would be nice to see other pictures of young teens who accidentally got pregnant being excited about their choice to bring to term the next generation of young Americans. I wonder if the Radiance Foundation has any outreach to single pregnant teen moms?
What’s really gotten the trolls’ dander up was the 71 likes after the photo was posted on facebook.
Last month I had interesting conversations with two women of color. Both were born to teenage unwed mothers. One became a teenage mother herself. One is the president of a modestly sized college, the other is the CEO of a medium sized but very profitable company. They both had the same thing to say about how they went from ho-hum minimum wage jobs to the success they enjoy today: MENTORSHIP. Each had been singled out by an older woman at their respective jobs who told each of them that they could achieve more if they wanted to. Each woman said that the wisdom and encouragement were by far the single most beneficial thing that propelled them to excellence.
It wasn’t pity or handouts that made the difference. It was the simple act of an older person that said, “Hey, you seem very smart. You can go far in life…” and spent some time helping them realize their potential. Mentorship doesn’t cost anyone any money, least of all the taxpayers. Sure there are mentoring programs out there, but what these ladies had was simple one-on-one interaction with a real co-worker.
And guess what? Their “babies” are now in college themselves getting an education. The rich don’t always stay rich and the poor don’t always stay poor.
My point is, if you see a young person doing a good job, tell her! Tell him! It doesn’t matter what color their skin is or how much money their parents make. Take a moment, give a young woman or man some encouragement.
yeah no relationship is complete unless someone is using you for sex. I was a PP patient for 14 years. I used Depo Provera. Birth control and abortion are both in place for cheap sex ( both sexes}……. it’s for guys who ‘JUST ARENT THAT INTO YOU”!!!!! Many of my sex partners had impregnated women before me and the women had abortions. I prided myself on being the smart one who wouldn’t ever need an abortion. LOL LOL! what a bunch of bunk. I suffered plenty for that cheap sex and living a lie. AND oh yes…. pretty much ALL of these guys told me the did indeed love me. LOL again. Forget it. Heading for the sack is gonna ruin everything MOST of the time. You should meet some of the young girls I talk to today who are sexually active. They have self esteem issues and trust issues. Many are insecure and some even find it funny when they use boys for sex. It hurts both sexes. …..AS for the picture……if these were 4 girls saying “we had abortions and were not sorry” the feminist pro aborts would get RIGHT behind them! They want you to kill your children. Their “CHOICE” doesnt include life.
I cant say Ive ever met a woman who had told me she wished she could go back and have an abortion. I’m sure there might be some out there but I’ve never met one. I liked what His Man told a girl who used to post here. She said ” well if my mom didnt want me I would have supported her choice to abort me.” He told her ” God wanted you.”…..as for people on the street with drug problems ( I just might take a few hits for saying this but I will } yeah MOST addicts have a million excuses as to why they are strung out. My parents this and my parents that. I know a 56 year old man who is on SSI SSD and he is an addict. Hes been on government money since 1985. Hes been blaming his “condition” on his mom since we met. I know people who suffered very horrid childhoods and they go to work and get married. They have families. Many people do become enslaved to drugs or alcohol. Stop whining and get to rehab. I know plenty of people who have been able to maintain sobriety.
Not here to preach about sobriety but remember addicts do a lot of lying ……try to give that story about “my mom didnt want me” to the cops when they pick you up for robbing someones home cuz you needed crack money…… just sayin
Yup, addicts are terrible, terrible humans beings. Totally.
Jack you need to knock it off. Throw away kids…abortion anyone???? I didnt SAY THEY WERE TERRIBLE PEOPLE but treatment is free and it’s out there. BTW why dont you stop your christian bashing????
And you know what Jack? if you are BUYING their excuses YOU need to wake up. Addicts could tell you their parents threw them away. Have YOU gotten every story? Maybe they had families that TRIED!!! Ever see INTERVENTION? Loving families trying everything and their addict kid screws them over. Many people believe as I do……if you WANT to live in the streets then do so by CHOICE!! We have sooooo many FREE rehabs here and anyone can get in. If you choose to use drugs then go ahead and play the blame game and use them. Sober people here tell other addicts to quit with the pity tripping because some of them were the worst of the worst and they managed to sober up. Even Dr. Drew knows addicts manipulate. And some addicts are terrible people.
Like Jacks comments and diggs about ” church girls do it.” and “Christian men pick up prostitutes.” REALLY? have you stopped these men to ask them if they were Christians? Have you spoken to these girls in church? If so then they really arent practicing Christians at all.
LOL you know I don’t support abortion, cut it out.
Christian bashing? Freaking seriously? Now pointing put that Christians aren’t perfect counts as bashing? DAILY on this blog, someone talks crap on non-Christians, I generally don’t say anything but every once on a while I get irritated with the self-righteousness.
As for the rest of your huge overreaction to one snarky comment, you seriously should get over it. I disagree with you, have told you before. It’s a public blog, where your comments are fair game. Make a private blog if you want to rant on about addicts without anyone challenging you or getting offended.
Treatment isn’t free, a lot of times, btw. Mine cost thousands. I know that you think you are an expert because you watched Celebrity Rehab, lol, but the world isn’t so easy or simple like you like to pretend it is.
But…but…everything on MTV/E! Entertainment/Lifetime/TMZ and in fashion/entertainment mags MUST be perfectly accurate depictions of reality!!!!11111one
Pipe down, you guys, or I’ll turn this thread right around!
Oh well Jack then we will agree to disagree. I do believe you use the site to bash Chirstians…and I c X gets your back. I guess she feels she needs to. Oh well to the 2 of you. Jack you need to get ovwer it and sit down!
Oh and Jack..are you saying celebrity rehab isnt real? A few patients have died from addiction who were indeed guests on the show.. AND Xalisae I cant believe you thought Jasper should be banned when you curse and put those stupid jokes through with the F WORD!!!!! maybe YOU should be banned. Jack you dont really sound anti abortion to me. It’s just a site so I dont care if you guys don’t like me.
you want me to make a private blog about addicts Jack . It seems to be that yo’re usually the one here defending every addict. Perhaps you would be better suited to run that site since all you do is talk about what a hard core doper you used to be. I bring it up and you get a chip on your shoulder….WHY? and yes indeed rehab HERE is FREE! I find it hard to believe you dont have any free treatment centers in your area. Okay I’m done. But Jack youve got all the answers anyway dont you???
you sound like you care, heather.
Jack defends addicts because he’s been there, and he knows from personal experience that it is more complicated than you’re making it out to be. I might’ve agreed with you before I met Jack, but now that I have, and have talked to him about things that he knows WAAAAY more about than I do, I see that I was wrong. That’s what intelligent people do. They listen to others who know more about a subject than they do (or study it themselves via resources a bit more academic than Dr.Drew on entertainment channels) , then adapt their thoughts and opinions to reflect the knowledge gained. LEARNING IS FUN!
You might think my jokes are stupid. I don’t, or else I wouldn’t post them. I’m part of the “meme” internet culture, which is all the rage among the young people these days. I’m going to websites frequented by The Young People, and spreading the Pro-Life message, because it’s helpful, and they need it. Also, my sillies tend to get upvotes, so I’m obviously not the only person who thinks they’re funny. And, if anything I post contains expletives, I usually censor or notify in a disclaimer. I don’t do it just to be rude (usually). By and large, I tend not to viciously attack people with spite and malice. That’s the difference between Jasper and myself.
Heather,
Can you think of something that is really close to your heart, that you constantly see people misrepresent and spread misinformation about? You apparently don’t like it when I point out that Christians can sin too, is that because you feel I am being unfair? That’s what you do with like every other post you make about addiction. So, every time you bring it up, I am either going to correct your misinformation or register my displeasure.
Celebrity Rehab is “real”, but its a freaking tv show. You, as a viewer, do not get the whole picture, so not understand what really goes on in treatment or with the addicts. You see what television executives think make a good show.
I didn’t say there were no free treatment centers in my area. They are understaffed and overworked, and are unable to provide very good care. There is a reason I am clean, with my expensive inpatient treatment with a private counselor and such, and most heroin addicts never get there. I am no better, I just got better treatment. A lot of people just end up taking maintenance methadone for the rest of their lives, I was off that in six months after leaving treatment, because I had better treatment. That stuff costs money. The addicts you are talking about don’t have access to that, generally.
I don’t bash Christians, I am married to one.
Have a nice day!
Oh, one more think. STOP implying or saying that I support abortion. It’s offensive, inaccurate, and ridiculous. Just because I am not a conservative Christian and I disagree with you doesn’t mean I am cool with killing unborn babies. Stop it.
Sorry for all the typos, I am on my phone.
Ok, heather you’re showing signs of having anger issues on par with that of some of our trolls. Please calm down, you’re not putting yourself in good company.
Social media can lead to some unsociable things - the kind of thing you used to only see in bars.
Whether it’s these girls on Facebook or people like us on cellphones. We’re all just human, whether it be these poor, silly girls or former addicts, or people who have seen many troubled people in their line of work.
Maybe once in a while, instead of blurting out our frustrations without fear of immediate contradiction, we should just “pull over to the side of the road” and play Pac-man.
Okay, kids? :)
I’m sorry Hans, this is like the fourth time she has accused me of supporting abortion. I can’t even count how many times I have seen the blatant insults towards addicts. I can only be nice so long. But I will shut up now.