Transgender father wants to be breastfeeding counselor
While we don’t know yet what LLL will decide about Trevor and other parents like him, it highlights some of the challenges brought up by our shifting understanding of gender and identity for the women’s health movement. For LLL, the question becomes whether gender is really the most important identity marker through which to be organizing their particular community.
In this scenario, breastfeeding seems like the most important identifier, and regardless of gender, LLL could be a place where breastfeeding parents found support and kinship.
~ Miriam Pérez speculating on the possiblity that the breastfeeding support group La Leche League would accept Trevor MacDonald (pictured “breastfeeding*” his son), a transgender father, as an LLL group leader, RH Reality Check, September 7.
*Trevor, born a woman, had his breasts removed three years ago but not his reproductive organs. He gave birth 16 months ago to son Jacob but had trouble breastfeeding. He achieved success through donated breast milk given to his baby through a narrow tube near the nipple. Trevor now identifies himself as a transgendered homosexual (“Yes, I’m complicated”), married to a man.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I say good for him. Breast milk is best, and having a sex change does not alter that fact. He’s doing the best he can for his baby under some very unusual and challenging circumstances.
At least, Trevor didn’t mutilate her son’s body after she had mutilated her own. But I fear what she is doing to her son’s soul.
That’s not to say that Trevor hasn’t mutilated (aborted) other children. On the one hand, I shouldn’t presume guilt. On the other, Trevor seems a very mixed-up person, especially morally.
Wow. You don’t like transgender people, so you accuse this one of abortion? Stay classy, Jon.
Kelsey, I didn’t accuse Trevor of abortion. Read my comment carefully. I said I didn’t know, but if there was a person likely to take such a desperate, depraved act, she might be one. She has already shown herself to be very mixed up.
I don’t care whether I’m classy or not; I never have. As a Christian, I do care about being holy. Trevor, and perhaps you, too, don’t have a concept of holiness, except as a perception that it is a holier-than-thou attitude. It isn’t. The Lord said that it is not those who are well who need a doctor, but those who are sick. I know a little of my sickness and wish that you and Trevor would as well (of your sickness, too, which is a sickness we all have in common, to a greater or less degree).
This is why I’m no longer a leader or a member of LLL. In an attempt to be nice and inclusive, they’ve abandoned reality! There’s an old bromide out there: A Baby changes Everything! Indeed. And when you have a baby, and you wish to breastfeed that baby, Guess What! There are some things you have to abandon: skydiving, military deployment, nipple rings, and that transgender operation. But LLL is determined to make breastfeeding possible and Laudable in whatever set of crazy conditions the mother sets forth. Those poor founders–many of them are still alive and probably weep for the state of the organization.
So she doesn’t feel like she is a woman, gets her breast removed, then has a baby and wants to do what woman do with their breasts that she originally got rid of and disliked. Artificially accoomplishes that…. Maybe eventually she’ll accept her woman body as she is attracted to the opposite sex. Just goes to show that mutilating our body to what we feel doesn’t make us whole.
Whatever. Life would have been a lot simpler if she had learned to accept her body for what it is.
WOW this poor father/mother is really mixed up.
I know for myself and many other mothers, nursing was on the top of list of the amazing things about being a woman. The feelings and bonding associated with nursing come from the deepest part of a woman’s femininity. Trevor might be able to help a mother with the mechanics of nursing, but he obviously not in touch with his own femininity enough to help a woman while she is connecting with hers. Those first months of life are difficult for a mother and a particularly vulnerable time when nursing becomes challenging.
I do worry about this poor child this man is raising. It is so hard for any child to be different in any way, but this poor child has a large deck stack against him.
He needs prayers because he is confused. First she changed her sex and had her breasts removed. Then she/he had a baby and wants to breastfeed and has to get a tube to feed the baby. Its confusing!
This is mental illness if anything is. I feel so sorry for this family. Just because Trevor seems nice and manages other areas of life competently doesn’t mean this is not mental illness. It is not true that all behaviors are in the normal and healthy range just because they don’t physically hurt someone else. This is straight up mental illness. Trevor needs help.
My heart goes out to Trevor. SHE, YES SHE is a woman who tried to be a man, but is trying to be a woman again, but having difficulty because she had her breasts removed. There is so much consequence to our sin, there are so many ramifications involved. After all she went through to be a man, she is now trying to live out being a woman. I say we pray for her and the child. I’m sure now she really regrets having her breasts removed.
I think child protected services needs to get involved! this person has some real mental issues that in my humble opinion are harmful to a young child.
This is just wrong.
Kelsey, I think that Trevor should be allowed to be part of LLL but I really don’t think he should be a group/team leader, as he wanted to be. Women turn to LLL for help and support in dealing with breastfeeding and I don’t think he would be effective at helping navigate the kinds of problems breastfeeding mothers tend to face, because he has little experience with them.
I first read about this a few weeks ago, and in the article I read, Trevor openly admitted that some women might not turn to a man for help with breastfeeding. If that’s the case, and if he concedes (as he did) that “not many” people may have even thought about the possibility of someone like him being in a position like this, I have to wonder why he WANTS to be a leader? I don’t mean “why” in an accusatory way but just…like, what is the motivation? Helping women? Because I’m going to be honest, everyone I know who’s found LLL helpful has mostly needed it for woman-to-woman affirmation and support from people who know from having DONE. If you want to help women then there are so, so many ways to do that. Leading a LLL group, I think, is one narrow kind of helping that requires a very specific set of skills and experiences. If he wants to offer support to transgender men who are breastfeeding then he is welcome to do that, as he clearly has relevant experience and would be able to offer personal, been-there support. If he wants to support breastfeeding women, though, perhaps advocacy and political action is a better role for him. Helping people is not about “but I want to do this! Let me help!” but rather about, “What can I do that would be helpful?” It does not seem to me that Trevor has ever really asked that question of himself. He wants to be a leader so that he can be a leader, not necessarily because he would be helpful as a leader.
LLL did not, to my knowledge, say that there is no place for this man in their organization; they just said that maybe he’s not the best choice for a group leader. I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable at all going to a man for help with breastfeeding if he could help me in some way, but I WOULD probably feel like a man can’t really help me with breastfeeding. I wouldn’t turn to a woman who’d never breastfed for help with breastfeeding, either. It’s not a judgment. It’s just an acknowledgment that when seeking support, people should have access to those best able to offer the kind of support they’re looking for.
Trevor is a woman. SHE is a female. Only females conceive, carry their young in their uterus, give birth and breast feed!
This makes me so sad.
And I am sorry that Trevor is trying so hard to normalize what she has done to her body by mutilating it so that everyone else must accept her and her behavior as somehow “normal.”
I’m inclined to agree with Alexandra. I have no urge to judge this man, I just don’t think he would have the right experiences for this particular role.
Actually Kelsey, Jon probably hit the nail on the head. Theresa Burke, Ph.D. says in her book “Forbidden Grief” that it is common for post-abortive women to attack their femininity and degrade the things that make them feminine such as breasts. It is a shame that a surgeon mutilated this woman’s body instead of seeking help for her mental illness.
As a breastfeeding woman I wouldn’t want to consult a woman who cared so little for breasts that she had them removed. If she had so little respect for her own breasts why would she respect mine? I would NEVER turn to such a person for advice.
Trevorette- I think we need to pray for her and her little child that they will be ok.
There was a fox news story on another transgendered man who is a homosexual!!
I guess this is what liberals mean when they say gender roles are “fluid”!
It looks like we need to start building some gender dams.
Actually Tyler, I don’t think we need gender dams. I think that we would have far fewer girls who “feel like boys” and vice versa, if we acknowledged that gender is not as rigid as our culture expects.
I am lucky enough to be in preparation to be a step-mother to two beautiful boys. One of them, at age 6, adores “girly” things. On the Wii, he made a girl avatar for himself, with pretty hair and makeup. When we are playing outside, he LOVES when I make him daisy-chain necklaces and crowns. On a recent rainy day he asked his father if they could dress up like princesses and play castle. When we went to a county fair recently, he begged and begged and begged for both a hatches-in-water dinosaur egg, and a pink-streamer headband.
He is a boy, and he loves being a boy. It never occurred to him to think of himself as ‘girly’ instead of just as ‘himself’ until some jerk in his kindergarten class told him that only girls wear pink. Bull. I told him that he is not a girl, and he is not girly. He is HIMSELF and the next time anybody tells him that boys can’t wear pink he should remember that that person is really not thinking very hard, because he IS a boy and he DOES wear pink so obviously they are wrong.
Still, he is learning to hide certain aspects of himself, around all but the closest family members. Is it any wonder that boys like this may grow up to think they “feel like girls?” We TELL them, as a culture, that they feel like girls! How sick is that?
When I was a little girl, my sisters and I frequently pretended to be Indiana Jones, and no one flipped out and thought that we wanted to be boys. Little girls are not hurt by the greater gender flexibility we’ve come to give them – to wear pants, to play-act as boy characters, to play traditionally “male” sports – and it’s time that we gave little boys the same freedom. We might see a whole lot fewer boys who “feel like” girls, if we stopped limiting what it means to “feel like” a boy.
Just my $.02, on erecting greater barriers between gender roles.
First reaction: When is the next off-world rocket due?
One has to wonder if her husband isn’t just as mixed-up as she is. Is he bi-sexual? When in “Trevor’s” transition did he (her husband) become attracted to her?
When you try to have the best of both worlds, I’m afraid you often end up with the worst of both.
Alexandra, stop it.
Society is not telling him that he feels like a girl – you are.
You did not adequately explain to him why the other child said boys don’t wear pink. Pink was traditionally the color to indicate a girl. Was this wrong – no. Colors are colors. It is one thing to be supportive, but it is quite another to be silent.
Uh, where did you see that, Tyler? I specifically told him he DOES NOT feel like a girl no matter what anyone tells him.
He was rejected as a counselor according to this site.
http://www.anglicansamizdat.net/wordpress/tag/trevor-macdonald/
Good.
This person is confused. Why would you need to be in LLL if you don’t breastfeed? Feeding from a tube in a bottle is not breastfeeding. If “Trevor” wants to be married to a man, bear his children and breastfeed, why is she insisting on being a gay man?
This is just bizarre. If you let him/her (who can’t even breastfeed) lead a breastfeeding group, I’m pretty sure most of the moms will stop going. Organizationally, it would be really stupid to put “Trevor” in leadership of such a group.
“When I was a little girl, my sisters and I frequently pretended to be Indiana Jones, and no one flipped out and thought that we wanted to be boys. Little girls are not hurt by the greater gender flexibility we’ve come to give them – to wear pants, to play-act as boy characters, to play traditionally “male” sports – and it’s time that we gave little boys the same freedom. We might see a whole lot fewer boys who “feel like” girls, if we stopped limiting what it means to “feel like” a boy.”
I wonder if the above kind of reasoning is related to the fact that many women don’t want to have a family until they are 35-40, after they have “proven” themselves worthy of a “male” career. I wonder if this line of thinking contributes to our society characterizeing a woman’s fertility as a disease. That is not “nice”, either.
Alexandra you need to “unlearn” everything you went to school for. Sheesh. There has been too much brainwashing in our society.
I don’t think so, Tyler. I think that letting girls and women enjoy the sports, clothing, and activities that they LIKE really affects very little about their lives except how happy they are being women. I say that as one of those women, who has always liked both traditionally female and traditionally male things; who has a strongly male-dominated career and yet who does not view her fertility as a “disease” and who is very family-oriented.
You may need to “unlearn” your belief that pink has “traditionally” been reserved for girls, Tyler. Until just prior to WWI, it was considered a “boy color.” Fortunately most people can realize that it’s just a color and the color a child is allowed (or told) to wear has no bearing on their gender. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/When-Did-Girls-Start-Wearing-Pink.html
What do you think I “went to school for?” I need to unlearn algebra and physics? Those are the big scary man subjects that I use every day at work.
You may need to “unlearn” your belief that pink has “traditionally” been reserved for girls, Tyler. Until just prior to WWI, it was considered a “boy color.” Fortunately most people can realize that it’s just a color and the color a child is allowed (or told) to wear has no bearing on their gender. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/When-Did-Girls-Start-Wearing-Pink.html
Who cares about the friggin colors – Donald Trump wears pink. The appreciation of colors is not on the same level as what Trevorette has done. She mutilated her body when she didn’t need to. She was perfect the way she was born – that is what she needed to be told. Her confused feelings in her head were normal, for all intents and purposes - and she needed to be told that to. The problem is that she doesn’t love herself as she was made. I know you would agree that society can’t break the link between nature and gender roles completely, otherwise, truth is destroyed and people like Trevorette harm themselves.
I *HATE* when the Media refers to transgender people as their “chosen” sex rather than the one they were born with. “Trevor” is a WOMAN. A SHE, A HER! No amount of surgery is going to change that! Pet peeve alert! Especially when their headlines read “first man to give birth”… what a crock of mule muffins!!! She is not a man!
Anyway… even if SHE were to become a LLL counselor you can bet your bottom dollar that should I need a counselor’s services she wouldn’t come near me if she were the last lactation counselor on earth. She’s way too confused and bizarre. She needs help more than the women she intends to “help” by becoming a LLL counselor.
I don’t think so, Tyler. I think that letting girls and women enjoy the sports, clothing, and activities that they LIKE really affects very little about their lives except how happy they are being women.
Talk about conflating issues. How is a woman de-breasting herself the same as a woman playing soccer?
BTW, how many children do you have Alexandra?
Well, Tyler, I’ve had two miscarriages, and like I said, I am taking on a step-parent role for two young boys. I don’t see how that’s relevant.
“Who cares about the friggin colors – Donald Trump wears pink. The appreciation of colors is not on the same level as what Trevorette has done. ”
That was my point, Tyler! Colors don’t matter. Flowers or headbands don’t matter. THEY DON’T MATTER. Girls playing soccer doesn’t matter. But if you tell girls that only boys can play soccer or pretend-play “international explorer,” and if you tell boys that they cannot like pink or play with flowers, you are telling them that these things matter, that these things are things that are wrong with them.
“The problem is that she doesn’t love herself as she was made.”
This is exactly what I was saying! The wonderful little boy I’m talking about – he wasn’t taught to like flowers or pink or whatever. He just LIKES THEM. And I am helping him love himself just the way he is so that he never ends up listening to some jerk who says that he is “acting like a girl” when he’s acting like the boy he has always been.
Alexanadra, you are speaking to the wrong person. You should be telling Trevorette that colors don’t matter, etc.. She is the person who doesn’t understand your point.
Well, I’m speaking to you, because you said that we need to erect dams to keep genders from “flowing” into one another, and I responded to that. I imagine that little girl Trevor likely had people tell her, once upon a time, that she was “acting like a boy” and reading all kinds of meaning into totally meaningless preferences and activities. Kind of like how you just speculated that my sisters and I playing Indiana Jones made us hate our fertility. Personally, I think that saying, “You can’t play the kinds of games you want to play because you’re a girl and that might make you reject your gender” will…make a person more likely to reject their gender. And so maybe one day, after somebody told her yet again to act like a girl, Trevor began to think, “Maybe I keep acting like a boy because I am actually supposed to be a boy.”
I can’t talk to Trevor and say, “Liking boy things, or not liking girl things, does not make you a boy,” but I can tell you that. So I am.
That was my point, Tyler! Colors don’t matter. Flowers or headbands don’t matter. THEY DON’T MATTER. Girls playing soccer doesn’t matter.
To this point – true.
But if you tell girls that only boys can play soccer or pretend-play “international explorer,” and if you tell boys that they cannot like pink or play with flowers, you are telling them that these things matter, that these things are things that are wrong with them.
This is where you go wrong. If they don’t matter, they don’t matter. There are is no double negative here that makes a positive. This is not math class, this is biology class. A person can’t play with fire, they will get burned. There is nothing ”wrong” with them when they get burned, although they were wrong to play with fire! Bering burned by fire is just the natural thing that occurs when people play with fire.
Saying things matter, such as women are women, doesn’t mean you are saying that being a man is wrong or vice versa.
“This is where you go wrong. If they don’t matter, they don’t matter. There are is no double negative here that makes a positive. This is not math class, this is biology class. A person can’t play with fire, they will get burned. There is nothing ”wrong” with them when they get burned, although they were wrong to play with fire! Bering burned by fire is just the natural thing that occurs when people play with fire.”
What are you talking about? I AM NOT TELLING ANYBODY THAT SOCCER OR PINK OR FLOWERS MATTER. Why are you talking about double negatives?
Women are women and that matters. What those women like doing and playing and wearing DOES NOT MATTER and does not affect whether they’re women or not. There is nothing wrong with being a man or being a woman and I’m not sure where you ever got that from….anything I’ve written. What are you even talking about?
I find it interesting. Doctors, who one would think should be in the business of healing, are instead mutilating mentally ill human beings for money. Who are the enemies of the transgender community? Not who they think. Body dysmorphic disorder is an illness. Surgery will not cure it. The body is functioning, it’s organs functioning, then some doctor takes advantage of the person’s confusion and ruins perfectly healthy organs and body parts.
Look, if you’re a female, you don’t have to bake cookies. Men don’t have to play football or watch it if they don’t want to. But when it comes to gender: follow the DNA. A very tiny number of human beings can actually claim to be gender-confused due to DNA. The rest do not have a problem in their sex organs, but rather in their minds. I am as kind as I can be to my “transgender” friends, but there’s a lot of revolving sickness going on in that social group. Doctors who take advantage of them should lose their licenses.
Your body is your own and lovable. Put whatever fabric covering you want over it. But paying doctors to cut you up? Going to far. Just my two cents.
Does having breasts make a woman more of a woman that has no breasts? No. Or if you think yes, you need to talk to women who have had mascetomies due to breast cancer? Does having facial hair make a person a man? No. Similarily, does thinking you are a man make you man? No.
What makes a person a man or a woman or a hermaphrodite is God.
Everyone is perfect as they were born, and as they age naturally.
Don’t mess with your gifts.
I can’t talk to Trevor and say, “Liking boy things, or not liking girl things, does not make you a boy,” but I can tell you that. So I am.
Alexandra, are there “boy things” or just things that boys like? Similarly, are there “girl things” or just things that girls like?
Also what does “boy” and “girl” mean to you Alexandra?
Alexandra I think you may be confusing gender “roles” with gender “identity”.
I think the issues Trevorette has go deeper than confusing her gender role. Although I suspect that does play a part in it as well. But you seem to link a person’s gender identity with how they perceive gender roles. I am not sure if there is a causal relationship between the two. Most likely, but I think the gender identity issues go deeper.
Alexandra and Tyler I think you ought to meet one another. (I do appreciate your cordial manners in agreeing to disagree.)
As a parent, teacher, authority figure we are to be role models and steer these little ones to not what you nor I think they ought to wear, dress, or enjoy. But, who God designed them to be.
There are distinctions that need to be taught and CELEBRATED. I have 7 sons and they each have unique characteristics & passions. Yet, in this age of CONFUSION and acceptance of strange even, bizarre lifestyles we better be steering the young to not just like and appreciate themselves (express themselves) But, more important to be who their Maker created them to be. Always thinking of bringing Him glory not ourselves or man.
I don’t see the teachings of self restraint or self-control because we are a depraved people. And, our hearts are self-centered. We do compliment one another and God says plenty about our roles. We are made in His image to radiate Him to a world of messed up people.
As a nurse who worked with those demanding mutilation of their bodies I see the dangers of the whole selfish “MAKE ME INTO WHO I WANT TO BE.”~
Such a pity, because outside changes never do change your soul. The whole acceptance of transgender has now crept into our culture. And, I wonder are we any better in the last 30-35 years?
Disrespect to ourselves, and more importantly a shame to a righteous deserving of awe, Maker/Designer. (Who really is perfect and makes no mistakes.)
Tyler, I don’t think there are boy or girl things. I think there are things that boys TEND TO like, and vice versa, but I don’t believe the generality is as all-encompassing as we assume it is, and I don’t believe it’s healthy to enforce those tendencies when it comes to kids who don’t fall into stereotypes.
I think gender identity problems go far deeper than gender roles, but I think that rigid enforcement of arbitrary gender roles and expectations can confuse young kids about their own gender identity or exacerbate problems in people already predisposed towards a struggle with their own gender identity. I don’t believe that “gender role barriers” or dams will do anything to help solve gender identity problems, and I think they only hurt people. You tell any woman here that playing sports and wearing pants and climbing trees is a path to rejecting her fertility, and see how many people agree with you.
I am yet again done talking to you because you seem pretty unable to follow a single thread of conversation.
The dams as they relate to gender identity issues is the plumbing that God gave each human person.
I don’t want to talk about gender roles with you, because we would be here all day, suffice to say that your assumptions about my views of gender roles is not accurate.
Alexandra: I am yet again done talking to you….
Whew!
when I was 6, I LOVED HE MAN. I loved pretending to be he-man and my dad was battlecat. When I had surgery that year and had to wear a chest protector, I drew he-man’s chest armor symbol on a piece of paper and stuck it on it. Actually, for some strange reason….I loved most 80s cartoons (and some were, yes, aimed at boys: GI Joe, He-Man, The Smurfs, etc…..but I loved one girly one: JEM&The holograms. I think I liked She-Ra…but not as much as He-Man. But I still prefer girl things, though I could care less about makeup.
This WOMAN has an illness and needs help. Makes me wonder if there were any tragedies in HER life that made her want to become a man,
Well, personally, this whole thing just makes my head spin! What a crazy world we live in.
Liz,
The Smurfs…sorry that’s a girl show!!
Trust me, I know, my brother watched it!!
How come everyone can intuitively make these disintinctions between girl and boy “things” even when we say that we don’t believe in girl or boy things!
Well, personally, this whole thing just makes my head spin! What a crazy world we live in.
Me too. I don’t know what to say or think. Awhile ago I read an article that a small percentage of transgendered people regret their operations,but by then its too late.
I don’t get it. This person was born a woman, then decided she didn’t want to be a woman, so she decided to be a man, then she married a man….so she could be a “gay” man?
I just don’t get it. I don’t think SHE does, either. I agree…this person is mentally ill.
She does need help..praying she gets the help she needs.
(I refuse to refer to this person as “he”..I agree with Carla).
How many delusions are involved in this story?
1) A woman has her breasts surgically removed and takes enough hormones to have facial hair, then presents herself as a man.
2) Then she has a baby, but still presents herself as a man.
3) She marries a man, but presents herself as a homosexual man.
4) Then she wants to breastfeed without lactation ducts, so she arranges for another woman’s breastmilk to be given to her son through a tube on her nipple and says she’s breastfeeding.
Sadly, delusional patterns of behavior most often signal mental illness. I hope Trevor and her family get the help they need to stop pretending things. I don’t see how it can be healthy.
Hey Tyler,
After reading the comments you & Alexandra expressed on this topic, I had the beginning of an idea that might play into the whole abortion phenomenon and so much more. It seems that kids learn gender differences (important for human maturation) by role-playing. Much of this seems almost hard wired like the penchant towards homosexuality; or, being a tomboy; or, being transgender. Maybe macho-ism, criminal behavior are also part of this ‘learning’ process. Ideation is a powerful thing, but the final end is maturation/self-identity.
Could the whole abortion phenomenon be a ‘role’, like feminism? ‘Identity’ of self as a ‘baby-killer’ seems unlikely.
I suppose if I don’t find this perfectly normal, I’m pushing my religion or something. Can this be our exceptional case talking point, or is that wrong?
Not following John.
Take two…
It is not loving to pretend, along with the confused, that a female is male (or vice versa) simply because she mutilates her body and dresses as a male. Is a woman who has a hysterectomy any less a woman? Reality or truth should not be denied by others in order to placate the unreasonable and foolish demands of the confused.
Here is the question with which I wrestle:
When the Trevors of the world are ‘born again’and baptized into the body of Christ how am I supposed to ‘love’ them as a fellow recipient of Jesus gift of grace?
I don’t ‘hate’ gender benders now, but I don’t have to break bread with them and love as Jesus loved me.
But when they are brought near to GOD by Christ and HOLY SPIRIT, then I can no longer choose not to care what they do or have done.
I am forced to deal with it.
Life used to be so much simpler.
“I am yet again done talking to you because you seem pretty unable to follow a single thread of conversation.”
There you have it.
If you dis-agree with these ’enlightened’ folks, it cannot be that they are wrong, but it has to be that you are too stupid to understand the complexity of their reasonings.
If a veteranarian were to surgically alter a mare to make her resemble a stallion [somebody hide Barney Frank’s viagra.] and then the horse gave birth to a colt, no one would try to convince us stallions can now give birth and nurse.
Only a profane modifier can adequately describe how stupid you have made yourselves.
Tyler, I just wanted to note that it might be helpful for you to go back and read Alexandra’s original post that you responded to. Because everything you’ve said in response indicates that you didn’t understand her point. I’m sorry for interjecting myself into the middle, but it’s frustrating to read you so upset with her when she hasn’t said the things that you are upset about.
You did not adequately explain to him why the other child said boys don’t wear pink. Pink was traditionally the color to indicate a girl.
My husband has one pink shirt and one lavender shirt that he loves to wear to work. He’s fathered three children and is all man. Looks pretty darned handsome no matter what color he wears!
Alexandra: “Uh, where did you see that, Tyler? I specifically told him he DOES NOT feel like a girl no matter what anyone tells him.”
This was an insufficient response. You should have at least asked him why he likes the things he likes… perhaps some twisted teacher with her/his agenda is warping your step child’s mind, or perhaps it is an older school kid that is influencing him, or something he say on TV, or perhaps it is completely his own intiative etc…. However, you don’t know without asking him why he is doing what he is doing. To simply tell him he does not feel like a girl is almost as bad as telling him he does feel like a gril… the point is: you are imposing your liberal views on this poor boy and telling him how he ought to feel.
Who would think that a conservative would school a liberal on how to treat people with respect!!
Jess, don’t forget to give him a tulip to wear in his hair, I have heard that doing so accentuates the pink shirt in a fabulous way!!
It is so chic to be a metrosexual these days.
Typically, the men who wear pink do so to deflect attention away from some other obnoxious behavior. Beware Jess.
Tyler, you are a straight-up psycho nutball of the highest order. There’s just no other explanation for the deranged insanity that regularly spews forth from your keyboard. You want to be taken seriously, but you come off as an arrogant, insulting boor. I actually feel kind of sorry for you.
Who cares about the friggin colors – Donald Trump wears pink.
you did not adequately explain to him why the other child said boys don’t wear pink. Pink was traditionally the color to indicate a girl
These are your quotes, Tyler. So, which is it? Do colors matter or not? You first said that colors matter and pink isn’t for males. Then you said colors didn’t matter and even Trump wears pink. Can’t have it both ways, dear.
LizfromNebraska you made me want to go watch 80’s cartoons! They were the BEST! Smurfs, Heman ( I loved it too), shirt tails (remember them?) Getalong gang, Popples, Rainbow Brite… Nothing compares to 80’s cartoons!
Okay, you may now return to your regularly scheduled argument.
“This was an insufficient response. You should have at least asked him why he likes the things he likes… perhaps some twisted teacher with her/his agenda is warping your step child’s mind, or perhaps it is an older school kid that is influencing him, or something he say on TV, or perhaps it is completely his own intiative etc…. However, you don’t know without asking him why he is doing what he is doing. To simply tell him he does not feel like a girl is almost as bad as telling him he does feel like a gril… the point is: you are imposing your liberal views on this poor boy and telling him how he ought to feel.”
Tyler, are you serious? Why would I need to ask him why he likes pink? It’s been his favorite color for years, and he’s only just in first grade. Why does he like flowers? Because they’re pretty. Why does he like dinosaurs? Because they’re cool and scary at the same time. Why is Super Mario his favorite Wii game? Because he likes the different levels and worlds, and because he can team up with me or his dad and tackle the hard levels together. I KNOW why he likes the things he likes. I am not telling him how to feel when I tell him he’s fine just the way he is. Good grief.
Alexandra, I didn’t realize asking questions, expressing interest in a person, was so backward (sarcasm). I thought for sure you would see the benefit of asking questions. Alexandra, you are the one who expressed concern that your step-son was being characterized as girly. I thought you would want to find out why.
These are your quotes, Tyler. So, which is it? Do colors matter or not? You first said that colors matter and pink isn’t for males. Then you said colors didn’t matter and even Trump wears pink. Can’t have it both ways, dear.
They don’t matter. You are the person that is saying they do matter and that pink and lavendar somehow make your husband a real man. I am just tired of all this phoney “open-mindedness” that ends up asserting a worldview no really believes but everyone feels compellted to support because it is the politically correct thing to do. If your husband wants to wear pink, good for him,..I am just saying your openmindedness only goes so far…it seems wearing a tulip in his hair is too far for you.
I looked up He-man – I hated that show too. I remember now – my brother, however, liked He-man too. Now I know why he turned out the way he is.
Tyler, you are a straight-up psycho nutball of the highest order. There’s just no other explanation for the deranged insanity that regularly spews forth from your keyboard. You want to be taken seriously, but you come off as an arrogant, insulting boor. I actually feel kind of sorry for you.
Thank-you.
Jess you should talk to Alexandra because she would probably like it if your husband wore a tulip in his hair.
Good night.
Jess, I forgot to ask does a nose ring go with a tulip in the hair?
They don’t matter. You are the person that is saying they do matter and that pink and lavendar somehow make your husband a real man. I am just tired of all this phoney “open-mindedness” that ends up asserting a worldview no really believes but everyone feels compellted to support because it is the politically correct thing to do. If your husband wants to wear pink, good for him,..I am just saying your openmindedness only goes so far…it seems wearing a tulip in his hair is too far for you.
What? Once again the mayor of Crazytown has weighed in on . . . something.
Thank-you.
You’re most welcome. Anything to help the mentally ill move a little closer to reality.
Jess you should talk to Alexandra because she would probably like it if your husband wore a tulip in his hair.
I should talk to someone I don’t know about my husband wearing . . . oh, forget it. I’m trying to rationally respond to a completely irrational statement.
Jess, I forgot to ask does a nose ring go with a tulip in the hair?
I have no idea, Tyler; you tell me. You’re the one with the brother who might better be able to answer that question.
“Alexandra, I didn’t realize asking questions, expressing interest in a person, was so backward (sarcasm). I thought for sure you would see the benefit of asking questions. Alexandra, you are the one who expressed concern that your step-son was being characterized as girly. I thought you would want to find out why.”
Hey, Tyler, why do you think I have never, ever expressed interest in this child I love and would die for? How do you think I came to know the things he likes, and why he likes them? I don’t need to ask him, one random day, why he likes pink because I KNOW HIM already. I am not “concerned” about him in any way.
I wouldn’t care either way if Jess’ husband wore a tulip in his hair. I honestly don’t understand why you think that me wanting people to love and accept themselves as they were made means that I care what anyone wears. It means pretty much the opposite.
Don’t worry Jess when the socially constructed gender roles change even more in the future (with your latent support) your husband will be wearing a tulip in his hair and a nose ring, and then you’ll be able to tell me if you like it, Probably by that time it will be so “in” you will most likely like it.
Oddly enough, my brother neither likes pink or nose rings!
Jess please refrain from stating any anti-tulip wearing comments in your replies. I will be offended.
Alexandra, how far will you take the absurdity. At what point does this behaviour become a call for attention, and not genuine self-expression?
When will we stop and look to see whether society’s permisiveness might be contributing to harmful behavior?
Alexandra you might want to walk back this statement you made: “I am not “concerned” about him in any way.”
A parent should always be concerned for their children.
I do need toclarify one thing I said earlier on. Trevorette is not born perfect, like the rest. Trevorette is born with original sin just like the rest of us. Our imperfection lies in our wills, not in our bodies.
Don’t worry Jess when the socially constructed gender roles change even more in the future (with your latent support) your husband will be wearing a tulip in his hair and a nose ring, and then you’ll be able to tell me if you like it, Probably by that time it will be so “in” you will most likely like it.
Oddly enough, my brother neither likes pink or nose rings!
Jess please refrain from stating any anti-tulip wearing comments in your replies. I will be offended.
Yet another bizarre post, full of derangement and bile. Keep digging that hole, Tyler.
Freak. freak, freak. How many, many freaks we meet.
Jess you just don’t like tulips do you?
Jess you just don’t like tulips do you?
Love ’em.
Alexandra, he’s six – things change quickly, especially his likes. Don’t expect his likes to stay the same, and when they change I am sure he would appreciate it if you asked him why.
“Alexandra, how far will you take the absurdity. At what point does this behaviour become a call for attention, and not genuine self-expression?”
Tyler, which is it – do colors “not matter” or is it an “absurd call for attention?” You can’t have it both ways. Does it ‘not matter’ if girls play soccer and boys wear pink, as you previously claimed, or is it society being permissive?
I think that from the context – you saying that I am “concerned” that he is being characterized as girly – it is quite obvious that I care about this child but I am not concerned about what a bully in his kindergarten class thinks of him, just concerned about how he is able to react to it. I talk to him constantly and I am fully aware of what he likes on any given day or even any given HOUR. I certainly do not need you to remind me not to just assume that he’s the same today as he was even three months ago. What exactly are you trying to even say at this point?
What exactly are you trying to even say at this point?
Holy cow, that IS the $64,000 question, isn’t it.
“Oddly enough, my brother neither likes pink or nose rings!”
Come to think of it, why did YOU bring him up in the first place? You said something about him “turning out the way he did”, but you didn’t say what way that was. Or was that part sarcastic or something?
Anyways, having read all the posts on this thread I have no idea what is going on. Perhaps I am too tired right now, or this thread has gone insane. Or both.
Good night to all. Perhaps tomorrow morning this will all make sense.
At 7:08 pm on September 21, Ken pondered, “When the Trevors of the world are… brought near to GOD by Christ and HOLY SPIRIT, then I can no longer choose not to care what they do or have done. I am forced to deal with it” (emphasis mine).
But they have repented! There is no more of “what they do,” and if there is, the elders (shepherds, government) of the church will discipline them and bring them either to repentance once again or excommunication. You are not forced to deal with it, not much, anyway. The Trevors themselves and Christ (and the elders, His undershepherds) have dealt with it. Christ alone atoned for it. Amazing grace that saved a wretch like me! The former demoniacs become gentle lambs, and the former Trevors become either submissive wives and honest mothers (if the man Trevor is currently living with will keep her and be faithful to her) or else eunuchs (from then on) for the kingdom of God.
I get your point, though. What a mess sin has made of the world! Especially of Corinth, as Paul reminds us.
Couldn’t any man breastfeed his child in this manner? He is feeding donates breast milk through a tube attached to his nipple. My husband could do that. I know women sometime use this method to help stimulate milk production so they could feed their child but it doesn’t seem that Trevor would ever be able to achieve that so why not just use a bottle full of breast milk. A woman who becomes a man and then gives birth and wants to breastfeed like a woman seems to be very messed up indeed.
Alexandra, your stepson sounds like a delightful child. He’s lucky to have your positive presence in his life.
Now, If Mr. Lunatic Fringe even had kids, that kindergarten bully would probably belong to him.
Oh, and women who step outside of their gender roles and wear pants are whores. And clearly women who excel in algebra and physics are lesbians who want to turn their children into unicorn/troll/amphibian shemales. Just FYI. ;-)
Eh. I was really glad when I had a son, because we get to do all kinds of cool stuff together, like tough-guy contests, arm-wrestling, playing soldiers and Halo and all the things that are awesome and cool.
Granted, I still did/do all this stuff with my daughter, but now I don’t have to do it while enduring all the ghey pink crap.
Needless to say, I’m quite a bit more masculine than my ex-husband. He wanted a girl so they could listen to the same music, watch the same shows, etc. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being girly, I just think girly people-male or female-have crappy taste.
I used to get mad at my cousins when they would come over to play when we were younger, because when we played army, they made me be the nurse, because girls weren’t allowed to be soldiers.
But, I think this conversation was derailed, frankly, because there is a difference-a PROFOUND difference-between preferring “girly” or “cool” things and actually believing yourself to be a different gender based on all the biological evidence to the contrary. The former is just a matter of taste, while the later is mental dysfunction.
“Trevor” is a woman. SHE is female. I’ll never address HER as “him” or “he”, because despite how much SHE wishes it weren’t so, it is. Anyone born with two XX’s, a uterus, ovaries, and a vagina is a WOMAN, and SHE can like it or lump it, but SHE will never be able to change it. Not really.
This is just a flavor of the same denial of Biological Reality that brought us “a fetus is not a human being”.
Before I finish catching up on this thread, I gotta say, who would have thought Tyler would so go off the rails, and ken would contribute a couple restrained, reflective comments? ;)
Tyler went off the rails when he said that colors don’t matter.
Yeah, this definitely derailed. Transgenderism is light-years from likes and dislikes.
I like Broadway musicals. I wish I became a golfer, if for no other reason than to wear Easter egg-colored clothes! I consider myself a pipsqueak compared to my dad, yet he has absolutely no interest in sports.
“Trevor” is way beyond having different likes and dislikes. She’s immaturely “playing gender” instead of “playing house.”
ts,
Actually, I thought he went off the rails when he first said that colors do matter. I guess he might not like that orange is my favorite color.
Wow. So glad I stayed out of this one.
Nothing wrong with a man who thinks pink is his favorite color. But if this man ever starts thinking he looks smashing in pink then padded walls would also be worth considering for my bedroom.
“Oh, and women who step outside of their gender roles and wear pants are whores. And clearly women who excel in algebra and physics are lesbians who want to turn their children into unicorn/troll/amphibian shemales. Just FYI. ”
LOL! That made my day. :)
“who would have thought Tyler would so go off the rails, and ken would contribute a couple restrained, reflective comments? ”
(Eagerly looks out window, in anticipation of seeing a flying pig.)
Oh and Alexandra, it sounds like you’re a great step mom, don’t let the Tyler’s of the world get to you.
Colors do matter. They matter a lot. Just like first impressions matter. People will wear “funny” colors or rings in their lips just to get attention or make a point that looks shouldn’t matter. I look at it as a lesser form of immolation.
I totally look awesome and sexy in pink, truth. True story.
No, really why in the world would it somehow be crazy for a dude to like the way he looked in pink? It’s just a freaking color. In prior times men wore it and it was all good. It’s just recently it’s become this huge deal.
*Tylers
Careful, Jack. I think you are starting to enter this one.
Lol, I know, I know. I’m just annoyed that truth is trying to revoke my mancard because I have a pink hat I like a lot. Oh noes watch out!I must be one of them gays or trannies!!!!
People will wear “funny” colors or rings in their lips just to get attention or make a point that looks shouldn’t matter. I look at it as a lesser form of immolation.
As someone who adores the ring in my lip not to “get attention”, but because it looks good on me and accentuates my full lips in a way that makes them look less goofy, you can kiss my rear.
“Lol, I know, I know. I’m just annoyed that truth is trying to revoke my mancard because I have a pink hat I like a lot.”
That’s got to really hurt given that Tyler has already revoked both our pro-life cards for supporting contraception. We’re all going to have nothing left if we spend to much time around here!
Lol X. I wish I still had my blue hair and tongue ring, I’d send truth a pic. I still have all the tattoos and nipple piercings, but I think a shirtless pic might scare him. Hahahaha!
Trans-colorers unite!
*too
x, I am sure your juicy red lips look beautiful without the ring.
Jack, I’ll keep my eyes out and let you know if I see any pink cowboy hats for sale.
Lolol, and when I was married I was the stay at home and did all the housework and cooking! And I’m a vegetarian! I must secretly wish I was a woman! Whatever shall I do???
Okay, I’m done amusing myself. I’ll stop now. I promise.
Jack, did you ever secretly wish you could breast feed?
Ugh! I had my tongue pierced for about 5 minutes way back when. I couldn’t sing with it in, so I got angry and took it out once I got home. Worst idea ever, and I give you props for being able to put up with it. Still the most painful piercing I’ve ever gotten, to this day.
*dies laughing*
I wished I could breastfeed as much as I wished I could give birth.
X I loved that piercing. Ellie made me take it out otherwise I would still have it. Nipple piercings hurt way way more, btw. Lol
Good to know Jack. That is about the breast fedding not the painful nipple piercings. Kinda proves my immolation point doesn’t it?
My neighbors dog got into it with a porcupine. The dog just kept going back for more. When my neighbor was finally able to restrain his dog the porcupine just continued on his way no worse for the encounter.
The dog’s condition was a different story. His snout was full of quills. It looked like a pin ball.
My neighbor spent at least an hour removing the quills.
I can understand from a human point of view how in the heat of battle when the adenaline is flowing and the fight or fight reflex kicks in and an animal would be oblivious to the pain of the ever increasing number of quills in his snout.
But unlike Mark Twain’s cat that once jumped on a hot cook stove and will never jump on another, hot or cold, my neighor’s dog learned nothing from the first encounter with a porcupine, or the second, or the third…
Observing Tyler and Alexandra locked in combat reminds me of the dog and the porcupine.
Still trying to determine who is what.
I sort of side with Tyler but I believe he is confusing cause and effect.
Wearing pink, watching chick shows and wearing pink does NOT cause homosexuality or gender confusion in males, but it may be evidence of some sort of disorder or dysfunction.
Similarly pretending to be Indianna Jones and playing with electric trains does NOT cause homosexuality in females, but it maybe evidence of some sort of gender bender twist.
A woman who mutilates her body to resemble a man and then subsequently conceives and births a child and still claims she is a ‘male’ can only be descrbed as delusional.
The evidence is “so blantant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.” Thomas Sowell
x, I am sure your juicy red lips look beautiful without the ring.
And I’m am sure your aesthetic opinion doesn’t matter to me, and referring to my lips as “juicy” creeps me right dafuq out.
Really.
Jack, of course you look sexy in pink. I don’t think there is a color you wouldn’t look sexy in. Btw, I am glad I stayed out of this one too!
Jack, good to know! I’ve been trying to convince babydoll to get his done, but now that you say it hurt worse than tongue, I wouldn’t wish it on him for all the tea in China. :(
A full figured girl is voluptuos. So it just followed that full lips would be juicy. No need to freekdafuqout.
Hans Johnson says: September 22, 2012 at 12:41 pm
“Before I finish catching up on this thread, I gotta say, who would have thought Tyler would so go off the rails, and ken would contribute a couple restrained, reflective comments?”
HJ,
Do ‘constraint’ or ‘reflection’ make the commentary any more or less accurate?
The ‘naive’ may merit restraint, but the stubbornly persistent fool does not.
see: dog vs porcupine
See, there you have it truth! You have it from a conservative Christian woman, who actually knows what I look like, that I would look sexy in pink! Your hypothesis fails!
And thanks Sidney, I am seriously blushing.
Truth, you totally missed my joke up there. I have never remotely wanted to breastfeed nor give birth.
This thread is freaking hilarious.
No I didn’t Jack. I got it. That is why I said it is good to know….that you never secretly wished you could breast feed.
I can understand that a woman might think a man looks sexy in pink. What I have more trouble understanding is that a man thinks he has to try to look ‘sexy’ at all. Like Tyler said; people are beautiful/sexy for who they are without even trying.
Can a ‘male’ be a breastfeeding counselor?
Does one actually have to be physiologically able to lactate in order to instruct lactators in the art.
Can a male teach a la maze class?
I would say that men could teach either class equally as well as a female.
My daughter who recently gave birth, said her baby was experiencing ‘nipple confusion’.
She thinks it is due to the pacifier, but it could also be caused by the nipples on the bottles she sometimes uses to deliver the breast milk she has ‘pumped’ previously.
I could only relate to my ‘confusion’ in the 60’s when women cast off restraint and burned their bras. My condition was partcularly accute on cold or rainy days.
JackBorsch says:
September 22, 2012 at 2:10 pm
“See, there you have it truth! You have it from a conservative Christian woman, who actually knows what I look like, that I would look sexy in pink! Your hypothesis fails!”
Get back Jack!
Not so quick.
‘Sexy’ is way too subjective a concept than to conclude on the anecdotal opinion of one woman that a ‘hypothesis’ it true or false.
We need more examples from Sydney of other males whom she believes are ‘sexy in pink’.
Knowing all the bullcrap women have to go through in the “beautification process”, I’ve always LOATHED it, and never understood why a dude, who isn’t expected to undergo such p.i.t.a.’s would ACTIVELY WANT to subject himself to such nonsense. I guess I’ve just been jealous of the expectations placed on men and the values typically encouraged in men versus women and how the genders seem to be valued and more importantly WHAT they are valued FOR…and a man wanting to switch places has always just seemed…ignorant, for lack of a better word.
I upvoted the comment about Jack in agreement. As further corroboration, I submit exhibit A:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/286161/Christian%20Bale/christian_bale_02.jpg
X
perdoname.
My limited mental acuity is failing me. I confess I am unable to understand your point. I am sure the lack is mine alone.
It may be a ‘girl’ thing or I aint ‘gay’ enough, but CB in pink does not strike me as ‘sexy’.
Let me take some time and get in touche with my feminine side. This may be a while. She went to visit a friend.
Could someone photoshop Jack’s head on Bales body?
That might be helpful.
That is sort of what Trevor did.
ken,
I usually enjoy your comments whether they’re “restrained and reflective” or not. Heck, your porcupine and bus stories were good too. (Am I cross-thread-referencing??)
Pink is just light red. Nothing inherently feminine about it. Just a color on the color wheel. Blue-light blue. Red with some white = pink.
Like it or not, it is now associated with femininity – socially conventionalized even. Liking pink does not matter, in the sense that it does not make you feminine. But choosing to wear it, as an adult fully aware of the association, does say something about you. You are fine being associated with a conventionally feminine color either because you are fine being associated with femininity as part of your identity or because you don’t care what the convention is and just like pink and/or because you want to prove that you are secure in your masculinity.
So, colors don’t matter and they do matter. Seeming contradictions sometimes point towards a complexity that is not being worked out or articulated.
Interesting factoid: It could have gone the other way. In fact, in the early 1900s when babies started wearing more than white (bleachable) clothes, blue was more often associated with girls and pink with boys.
(Check out what an article from 1918 said: “The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.”)
ktb at 5:21…you are killing me here
HJ,
Tho I referenced you the comment was not directed at you, but at the ‘persistent fools’.
You were my point of reference, not my intended target.
I know you are one of HIS kids.
Just returned from getting in touch with my feminine side. [someone restrain RaisehellMaddkkoww] and I have decided I am dissatisfied with the experience.
I asked for a hysterectomy, but the surgeon rejected my request saying you don’t have a uterus because you are not a woman.
I would neve have expected such insensitivity from a highly skilled medical professional.
Am I a victim of gender based bias?
That is terrible ktb. Good luck finding a new doctor that understands you better.
Ken, try getting a masectomy. Then you can join Trevor as a fellow breastfeeding counsellor. Those who can’t do, teach.
I keep thinking… He/she felt that he/she is a man and wanted to be a man, have a man’s body and man’s life. So then BE A MAN. I don’t really know any men who wish they could get pregnant, go through labour/birth and breasfeed… Some say they do to make you feel better, but that’s as far as it goes. Now it’s a very mixed up situation – “Oh, I want to be a man, and look like a man, but be able to get pregnant and breastfeed”… What?! Seriously….
I would like to apologize to Trevor, Jess, and Alexandra for going into the gutter, and getting sidetracked
I hope Trevor’s child is always the focus of everyone’s concern.
Alexandra, I think your misunderstanding of my point was due to my poor communication and editing skills. I was the one who incorrectly used the concept of “gender roles” instead of the concept of “gender identity.”
—-
I would like to piggyback on the comments of Lifejoy, because I thought they were good. The reason I say that “colors don’t matter” is precisely because our appreciation of certain colors is often influenced by social conventions. Lifejoy’s clarification that there are also countervailing social conventions/intentions exposes the capacity for human beings to overstate their ability to transcend social conventions. Typically, human beings merely subsitute one scoial convention for another (i.e. pink is not color for men, to pink is a color for “secure” men). However, I have an additional reason why I think colors (social roles) don’t matter and that reason is because social conventions, as long they don’t break his commandments, do not matter to God. What matters to God is how, what and who we love. Do we love others the way He loves us? Do we love others for the right reason which is to hope that they will attain eternal happiness with God. If we love others in God, according to His way of self-sacrifice, following His commmandments, our love will not only be a delight to God, but to ourselves and those we love. It is my concern that when women become transgendered males who become mothers God’s love is obscured, and becomes more self-centered rather than other centered.
Like Jon (a poste to this thread) I was not certain that other centered love was being done here. However, like Jon again, I have to admit that I don’t know the heart of Trevor, and that only God does. I only know Trevor’s actions which, on first glance, do not appear to be about putting the needs of her child before her own, about following God’s commandments. But since I am still learning/struggling to put the needs of others before my own I recognize it is a difficult task and we will need the Grace of God in order to love in this way, and to be made righteous. With that said May God protect her child and, if it is His will, may He create in her a desire to return her appearance back to that of a woman.
Thanks, Kelsey. Trevor and I did talk about our views on abortion before we got pregnant with Jacob. We decided no matter what, we would have and love our baby (not that we decided anything about other people’s choices).
As for religion, since it came up, Trevor and I hope to raise our son to love others as his own self. Just something a teacher of mine said a long time ago.
Do you find some of the comments on this thread go against many of the commenting rules (except for sharing personal information, which my current post does?) Just wondering about that.
Hi, Ian. If you are indeed the person you claim to be, and you have not yourself mutilated your body as Trevor very publicly did hers–there were newspaper accounts of a man giving birth–then you are her husband. Love her and take care of her if she will try to be, in appearance as well as behaviour, your faithful wife. In so doing, you will also be loving your son and providing him with a good example.
You are not concerned for the welfare of your son or your neighbour if you are attempting to spread sexual confusion or normalize homosexuality. And instead of seeking to be a breastfeeding counsellor, Trevor needs a proper sense of shame, or at least, humility. She herself needs counselling, I believe, based on the information given in Jill’s post.
Having followed the good example of my father and mother and sound instruction from a Bible-believing church, I can tell you that sexual intercourse in its proper place–within wedlock of a man and his wife in lifelong covenant–is very enjoyable. It’s meant to point to something better: the amazing love and protection that the Christ has for His Church, even to the sacrificing of His own love–and, in return, the obedience and worship of a great people devoted whole-heartedly to Him, washed clean by Him of every impurity and intent on increasing His glory throughout the world and His likeness in the ranks of His followers.