Stanek weekend question: How does abortion differ from child sacrifice?
There are many references in the Bible to child sacrifice, and how much God detests it. For example, II Chronicles 28:1-3:
Ahaz was twenty years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem sixteen years. Unlike David his father, he did not do what was right in the eyes of the Lord. He followed the ways of the kings of Israel and also made idols for worshiping the Baals. He burned sacrifices in the Valley of Ben Hinnom and sacrificed his children in the fire, engaging in the detestable practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before the Israelites.
People sacrificed (and still do) their children to please or appease their gods.
A god does not have to be a deity. Idol worship can take many forms – love of money, love of power, addictions, obsession over another person, etc.
In that context, is there any difference between ritualistic child sacrifice and abortion? How are the two alike, or not alike?
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I’ve thought this for a long time. They’re not really different. Our culture’s gods are education and a certain standard of living. Although, to be fair, I think women also have abortions sometimes out of a desire not to disappoint their parents.
The link is closer than most people realize. I personally believe that Molech, like other false deities, is actually a demonic spirit whose thirst for the blood of children has never died. That spirit entered this world through Lot’s incestuous union with his daughter (Molech was the god of the Ammonites); that, in my view, answers the exception that some otherwise pro-life people make for incest. The truth is that it was through incest that the spirit of abortion, Molech, entered the world in the first place, and using incest as an excuse for abortion is nothing more than paying homage to Molech.
Child sacrifice is condemed all throughout the Bible.Yet many so called Christians support abortion under the guise of *choice* and *convenience*. They do not look at the human rights being violated,because the fetus is a human being. They do not look at the scientific view [and Planned Parenthood pseudo-science does not count] that according to Biology ; life begins at conception. That is a scientific fact. Or newer evidence that brainwaves are detected 6 weeks and 2 days after conception [a time when many women are not even aware they are pregnant yet]. Psalms 106: 37-42 is proof the LORD hates child sacrifice,and Luke 1 :41-44 is proof the LORD sees the unborn as a child [not a choice].
There is little difference. Child sacrifice was often performed in an attempt to beseech the “gods” for things like a good harvest, prosperity, and so forth. Child sacrifice through abortion is, among other things, supposed to guarantee women a greater chance at prosperity rather than poverty.
We also have no problem aborting disabled or supposedly “imperfect” children in our society. We dispose of ours in medical waste bins, though, instead of throwing them off the side of a mountain.
I have often used Biblical references to Pagan Sacrifices in prolife presentations. Infant sacrifice allowed people to simultaneously murder unwanted children while proclaiming homage to their gods. Today, the parallel act is strikingly performed in homage to political rhetoric and a flawed worldview.
The first thing I noticed about the practice was that the first-born male heir to the throne never passed through the arms of Molech, nor was sacrificed to the Baals. I would extrapolate that the children of concubines and lesser wives were fodder for sacrificial fires. Likewise, abortion is condoned to rid the world of “lesser human beings” — those perceived to be unwanted due to the circumstances of their conception, prediction of disease or birth defects, or the socioeconomic strata of their parents.
David Cannon brought another aspect forward that I had not seen. While we (even pro-choicers, by their claim that it should be “infrequent”) acknowledge that abortion is evil, this insight may reveal the bitter heart of the act.
Abortion is a sacrifice to the great goddess Gaia. The choice argument for abortion is for the naďve; for true believers the secular religion of environmentalism is what underpins support of abortion.
This is my central conflict with abortion. If it is okay to abort, why is child sacrifice illegal? And furthermore, why can a woman abort a child, but let’s say a preterm infant is born–why do the parents have to sustain the baby (warmth, foods, meds) if there are indications the preterm suffered brain damage? The State will come in and force you to maintain that preterm child’s life and that has been challenged in court–State won. But had the mother aborted same unborn preterm baby 1 day prior, that’s perfectly acceptable. And if it is legal to abort any unborn child, than all people in jail for killing an unborn child (car wreck, violent attack) should have their sentence reduced for the killing an “almost person” unborn child. Period. I really have a hard time wrapping my head around these conflicts of laws, rules, standards, morals, ect. Sometimes it a human. Sometimes it isn’t. BS.
I don’t see any important differences.
If you cannot distinguish between child sacrifice, which in today’s terms would be murder, and abortion, which is a legal medical procedure, then you should read more.
A child is a being that has rights because he or she, at any age is an individual protected by the parents and the state.
Fetuses don’t have rights. State after state has rejected giving them rights.
When I choose to have an abortion, I am making the decision that is best for me emotionally, physically, financially. In those respects, that decision is also best for the embryo, fetus, unborn child, whatever emotional term you want to call it.
Comparing child sacrifice to abortion is simply an illogical emotional appeal to stir the masses.
Valid point.
Here are more Scriptures that get even clearer as to exactly what God thinks of abortion:
http://bibleobservations.blogspot.com/2012/09/what-god-thinks-of-abortion.html
Tim
12,907 days
Sko, you know black people didn’t have rights either a couple hundred years ago. Your point then is what? If the government, made up of imperfect humans, doesn’t recognize someone as a person then they aren’t? What a dumb argument. I guess you have the same mindset as the white slaveowners and the nazis who killed Jews. Neither of those 2 groups saw their victims as humans either…and had the law to back them up.
Well let me educate YOU a little bit SKO. I have 2 sons. They were human from the moment of conception. That isn’t rhetoric. That is biological fact. You can look at any medical textbook and it will confirm that I am right. Species only reproduce after their own kind. So we know that humans must reproduce other humans. We can’t reproduce cats or dogs. We know at conception a new human being is formed with unique DNA that is different from both mother and father and has never existed before and will never exist again. This human being grows and goes through it’s natural life cycle which will continue until natural death as an aged adult unless other factors (such as abortion) intervene. A fetus is merely a stage of the life cycle. This stage has no more or no less worth than other stages of life including the adult stage. You act as if “fetus” is a different species. It is not. Fetus merely refers to the stage of development that particular human being is in.
That being said, there is no difference between ancient child sacrifice and abortion. I’ve said it for a long time. The ancients sacrificed to a god so they could have a good harvest or win a war. The modern folks sacrifice their children on the altar of self so that they can have a good career and buy that big house. Whats the difference? Killing children (who suffer terribly) so that the killers can have more things.
Killing your child in honor of yourself is never in the best interest of your child (BTW, not an emotional term; rather, a way to denote relationship).
P.s. It’s not in the best interest of yourself to kill your child, either. Carla, perhaps you could speak to that one.
I think the critical difference is that abortion is done on children that are inconvenient or unwanted, while child sacrifice involved children that were wanted and valued by society (a worthy gift to the gods). Both are wrong for the same reasons, but there is a distinction that can be made.
Abortion is unceremonial. It is more hidden, and people use it to conceal what they have done and are doing. Child sacrifice was ceremonial and out in the open.
The two seem to meet in pro abort rallies or in statements like “Abortion on demand and without apology” Few truly embrace that notion. Generally aborting moms are not happy or proud.
sko’s argument is illogical. Obviously child sacrifice was legal in the days of Ahaz, just as abortion is legal now. Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s OK, as if the rightness or wrongness of an action could be determined by a democratic vote. If you can convince 51% of the people that the sky is green, does the sky turn green?
I sacrificed my child to the idol of self. She died and I have to live with that.
I see no difference.
I have read enough of the accounts of former mill workers doing drugs and making abortion ritualistic enough.
Sko,
There is hope and healing for you in abortion recovery. Your abortion wasn’t any different than mine. We paid someone to kill our children.
hippie hasn’t read some of the websites like Tiller’s who make religious ceremony out of the abortion or the feminist earth-mother circles who support each other.
Michelle needs to acknowledge that the Democrat Platform has changed the “safe, legal and rare” to merely “safe and legal.”
In the most fundamental way, it is the same. But what adds to abortion’s evil is that pro-choice people do not see it as the same. It’s deceitfulness is an unbelievable phenomenon. The parallel of sacrificing to false “gods” is sadly appropriate, and yet, abortion withholds God’s miracles from people rather than giving people’s miracles to the gods, or something …
Tim – What is the 12,907 days?
(Thought since Roe v. Wade,
but doesn’t calc out). Curious.
That’s how old I am. Roe was about four years before me.
Tim
12,907 days
The short answer: not much.
There is not much difference between polytheism and moral relativism - both provide little moral or spiritual direction.
Tim, I like it. I think all Roe survivors should do the same.
Another example of trying to rewrite the TRUTH!!!! HERE IS THE TRUTH: LUKE 1:28-54!!! PLEASE CHECK THE REAL TRUTH OUT IN THESE PASSAGES!
“Another example of trying to rewrite the TRUTH!!!!”
To what are you referring?
sko says
If you cannot distinguish between child sacrifice, which in today’s terms would be murder, and abortion, which is a legal medical procedure, then you should read more.
Child sacrifice, which in today’s terms would be murder, was a legal procedure in ancient Cana, Carthage, wherever Molech was worshipped, and in the Aztec empire.
Infanticide (exposure) for the sake of convenience, which in today’s terms would be murder, was a legal procedure in ancient Rome.
Abortion, which is murder, was made a legal procedure in the US by the decision of a court in 1973 — even the 48 states where citizens wanted to protect the innocent children from harm.
We remembered the Dred Scott Decision, which made slavery legal in all 48 states — even those states that wanted to protect the human rights of Negroes.
“Legal” does not suddenly make an evil action right — not slavery, not human sacrifice, not abortion.
In that context, is there any difference between ritualistic child sacrifice and abortion?
Yes. One that’s much greater than the difference between the average pro-lifer and a Bronze Age theocrat.
“hippie hasn’t read some of the websites like Tiller’s who make religious ceremony out of the abortion or the feminist earth-mother circles who support each other.”
I have read them, but those are fringers. The typical woman who aborts may be a victim of some of those crazies, but she is not one of them. More typically she is being pressured by the guy who doesn’t want to take care of a child because of his own selfishness.
Very true. Baby/child sacrifice and abortion have alot in common. Both are done for the person’s own interests with no regard for the human life being sacrificed. They did abortions legally in ancient Rome before Christianity came. God/Jesus saved Rome and many other countries from doing this awful act among other things. And now that they are taking him away it is happening again in many countries. The further we get away from God/Jesus the more selfish, perverted, and evil we get. After the sexual revolution broke out date/gang rapes increased dramatically. Not only this but LOADS of sexually transmitted diseases came. Its because people wanted to throw their morals they learned from God/Jesus in the garbage. God warns us of this stuff for a reason. We didnt listen and looked what happened. All for our own selfish, perverted, and evil desires.
I have so much respect for the people that regret their abortion, find God, and get his forgivness and love.
It is so easy. Just admit what you did was wrong, ask his forgiveness, repent by being against it and warning others it is awful, and there you go. You are forgiven and healed. God will not hold it against you when you die and are judged. And oneday you will be reunited with your little baby in heaven. It will be a beautiful reunion where you can hold your baby for all eternity. And the both of you will be in God’s love forever and never suffer again. It is something to look forward to. And it is something God/Jesus wishes for you. But the choice is yours and if you want to be so prideful, arrogant, and selfish you wont be able to get the beautiful gift he has planned for you. It is such a shame.
Tim – Love it! Hope you don’t mind I use your idea.
“Teach us to number our days aright, that we may gain a heart of wisdom.” ~ Psalm 90:12
(Seems I am older than you by a bit, and also survived!)
Laura – “LifeJoy”
13,004
Tim and LifeJoy, how are you measuring your age? from calculated approximate date of conception or from birth? Westerners measure their age from their date of birth because it is known, but to make our language more prolife we could add the usual 266 days from conception to birth.
Tim McGhee says: October 6, 2012 at 5:26 pm
That’s how old I am.
Tim
12,907 days
Timothy,
Ps 90:12 So teach us to number our days, that we may get us a heart of wisdom. AMP
Does the total include the days of your gestation or does it only reflect the days since your ‘birth’ date?
“State after state has rejected giving them rights.”
sko, YOU should read more. State after state GAVE them rights, but the Supreme Court took those rights away in Roe v Wade. In any event, what a state does is irrelevant to the biological and moral status of the unborn child.
How does [elective] abortion differ from [ritual] child sacrifice?
Though ‘elective’ abortion and ‘ritual’ child sacrifice may be motivated by different causes, the effect, for the victim, is still the same,…a violent,…premeditated,…and premature,…homicide.
There is NO DIFFERENCE. I would encourage all to watch the DVD “The Abortion Matrix:Defeating child sacrifice and the culture of Death” by the Apologetics Group (Eric Holmberg and Jay Rogers produced. It is an excellent and powerful presentation that traces the biblical roots of child sacrifice. Go to http://www.forerunner.com search Abortion Matrix.
Thank you, groovesmyth for your comment “Michelle needs to acknowledge that the Democrat Platform has changed the “safe, legal and rare” to merely “safe and legal.””
Actually, the Democrat platform changed from ‘safe, legal and rare’ to merely “legal and free’ because Democrats nearly universally shield negligent abortion providers from accountability. We certainly saw this in Michigan.
So let me get this straight, the only defense anyone has brought forward for abortion so far is that it’s legal? A defense that would apply to the child sacrifices of the past as well. Seriously trolls, put some more effort into this one.
hippie,
Planned Parenthood marketed jewelry, shirts etc. etc. that said, “I’m proud of my abortion.” (paraphrased) It would be interesting to see the sales statistics on that. Your “fringe” must be big enough to support the creation of the material.
“Abortion on demand without apology sums up the real notion of radical feminism.
Jan and kenthebirther,
That’s since my birthday. Earlier than that would be getting a bit personal for my parents.
Tim
12,908 days
Not my idea. I have heard: Satan cannot attack God directly. But he can attack the image of God. Either by encouraging us humans to beleive that child sacrifices will please God, or by carrying out an abortion for what is always, at the bottom of it, a selfish reason. Right now in the United States, Satan is able to attack and kill one out of every six images of God that come into creation.
http://abortionmatrix.com
From part 7 of The Abortion Matrix:
Starhawk is a best-selling author and a highly regarded voice within witches’ circles. She is also a licensed minister of the Covenant of the Goddess. Starhawk defended abortion this way:
It is in our encounter with the mysteries of birth and death … that we meet the Goddess. So to take away our right to have that encounter [through abortion], to face that often painful and difficult choice, is to deny a woman’s deepest spiritual self.
Zsuzsanna E. Budapest is a Hungarian-born witch considered to be the “Mother” of the feminist spirituality movement in the United States. She founded the first feminist witches coven here in the 1970s, the Susan B. Anthony Coven #1, which served as a template for other feminist covens across the country. A prolific writer, Budapest has provided spiritual justification for abortion and offered abortion rituals in her books. In The Grandmother of Time, Budapest wrote, “Abortion is the prerogative of the Dark Mother.” (Zsuzsanna E. Budapest, The Grandmother of Time: A Woman’s Book of Celebrations, Spells, and Sacred Objects for Every Month of the Year (New York: Harper, 1989), 127.)
“Dark Mother” is an allusion to the life-taking aspect of the goddess that always accompanies her fertile, sensual nature. Budapest believes abortion is a woman’s “responsibility, making the choice of life and death as much a part of the Goddess as her life-giving good nature.”
As one goddess worshipping witch put it, the goddess “who whets your appetite with sexual pleasure also whets the knife.” (Nevada Kerr, “Abortion as a Sacred Rite,” Snuff It, no. 4)
Ginnette Paris is author of the books, Pagan Meditations, Pagan Grace and The Sacrament of Abortion. She is a witch who currently serves on the Core Faculty of the Pacifica Graduate Institute in Carpinteria, California. In The Sacrament of Abortion, Paris writes:
It is morally acceptable that a woman who gives life may also destroy life … whoever kills a fetus commits a murder…. (a fascinating and sobering acknowledgement of a biblical and scientific truth).
It is not immoral to choose abortion; it is simply another kind of morality, a pagan one …
[O]ne can occasionally resort to abortion when it is necessary to sacrifice the fetus to a higher cause …
In the book a woman is instructed to consider the reasons behind abortion. Paris asks, “To what ideal or what set of values is she sacrificing the fetus?” Her repeated reference to sacrifice is purposeful. Her entire book can be summed up as advocating abortion as a sacrifice to the goddess Artemis. Historically, the Goddess Artemis was worshiped as goddess of birth and goddess of blood sacrifice.
Abortion as a sacrifice to Artemis. Abortion as a sacrament – for the gift of life to remain pure (Ginnette Paris, The Sacrament of Abortion (Spring Publications, POB 222069, Dallas, TX 75222, 1992) pp. 53, 56, 107 & back cover.)
Wow, fascinating and disturbing info, Jay. Thanks.
Thanks, Jay. We humans are so unoriginal. Always trying to copy God. Same ol’ Tower of Babel story. We recognize and desire these wonderful things, but we are too sef-centered to give authority over our lives back to God to simply have these things on His terms.
Hold on…there is a difference between child sacrifice and modern abortion:
In a certain way child sacrifice to the local volcano god was a better than the way child sacrifice is done in America today. Back in the old days when a woman had an unwanted or defective child she could offer it up on behalf of the community. People were grateful for her for doing it. And she could at least take some spiritual solace in the idea that her child’s life was helping to bring in a good harvest for the community. The child’s life had meaning and worth…it brought forth life. The sacrifice calmed a violent unpredictable natural world. (Or so it was believed.)
Now a day’s medical abortion is generally a meaningless selfish waste…the child’s body is thrown out in the trash or worse. Everything about the way abortion is done today degrades the whole of humanity.
Is the end result the death of an innocent human being back in the olden days and today Tommy R?? Is the intent to kill that child?
The DEATH of that child diminishes all of us.
Offer the child to God, Allah, the sun, the moon, the stars, the “volcano god”(a better way according to you) or MTV. And then murder her.
No difference.
I honestly want to ask you if you are high and typing.
Good grief.
Carla,
You are right I should not have used the word “better”.
There is nothing good at all about child sacrifice or abortion under any circumstance or belief system. It always results in a tragic loss of a priceless baby. And nothing good can ever come from it…even if one really did believe in the mighty power of the volcano god. Any sacrifice made to it won’t actually improve anything.
My intention was to point out a difference in social motivations for legal child killing under different belief systems.
The modern abortion system is an attempt to solve a personal problem for the patient and to make money for the abortionist. The practice of offering a child sacrifice to quell the gods has a different complex religious /social /survival agenda beyond the mere “unwanted child” issue.
A few people today may have similar perverse religious beliefs (like the ceremonies Tiller was apparently into) but by and large most pro-choice people just want what appears to be a quick and quiet solution to the problem of an unexpected unwanted pregnancy.
It could also be argued that Secular Humanism, the virtual State Religion promoted in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment holds abortion as its “sacrament” because the adherents of progressivism and feminism are virtually one and the same. (and I believe environmentalism as well as someone already mentioned)
To the original question: Time and place. Nothing else.