by Hans Johnson
This is the second in a series of short pro-life videos released by Fr. Frank Pavone, National Director of Priests for Life.
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
It is not just “your body” when you are pregnant, your unborn child lives, moves, hiccups, yawns, urinates, sucks his/her thumb separately from “your body” with his/her own heart beat, organs, DNA, and may be a totally different sex or blood type as his/her mother.
So what is he saying, that every fetus is jesus? Or that a fetus is a wafer?
The theology is absolutely mind blowing, Reality. this fight-debate is also spiritual warfare. Like many things this is but one of the ‘serious’ aspects of abortion.
If you wish to learn: attempt to place value and life together as STEP I on your ‘journey’. OR ASK JESUS ….
Many things are mind blowing JM, doesn’t mean that they’re safe, legal or logical.
I can’t participate in your ‘spiritual warfare’, thats something you faith folk can only do amongst yourselves.
I spend my life learning JM, its a never ending journey. I’m a sponge for knowledge. ‘Value’, interesting word. What do you mean by value?
Why not ask Zeus?
That message was so STRONG it sent shivers down my spine.
Its a sad world we live in when Christ’s words as used to promote such evil inour world.
From words of Sacrifice to words of selfishness.
God save us!
Of course the irony would escape you, Reality. Christ broke the bread at the Last Supper and said, “This is my body, which is being broken for you.” – referring to his torture and crucifixion in mere hours.
It’s the opposite of all the little bodies that have been broken for selfish reasons.
I ‘get’ the irony Hans. It’s just that its only applicable to believers. For the rest of us it’s meaningless.
That;s it, Reality. THE DIFFERENCE – You = meaningless(ness); or, ‘So what’; or, “Why bother (sponge)? vs meaning to significance ! BIG STEP!!!
You wanna translate that garbled missive into english John?
Reality, I am still waiting for an answer. Sincerely, do you think you will be posting one tonight?
Sorry Reality, at times I use mathematical symbolism mixed with words. EXPLANATION OF ABOVE … in recent posts you have used words like ‘meaningless’ and when I and you talked about learning, you used sponge’. It kinda reminded me of Jean-Paul Sartre’s ‘Being and Nothingness’. To the book, it did nof answer any ‘So what?” or ‘Why bother?” (writing 600+ pages), questions that I had. The ‘So what?’ question has been the hardest one to proceed and do anything meaningful. It has been a nightmare to answer, this side of sanity.
The ‘other’ side of reality is meaningfulness (Thomas Aquinas) and its faith-based constituent: significance. There is likely no more powerful word/notion, for the intellectual than ‘significance’. There is or there isn’t any. If none, then ‘so what’ is still lurking.
I hope this makes sense.
Yes it does John.
I must say I disagree with the concept that faith is required for one to achieve a sense of meaningfulness or significance.
Geeze. I find myself agreeing with Tyler, Jake, and Reality all in the same week. Double yoo tee eff.
I’m a 100% True Christian the believes in Jesus Christ as our Lord and it’s not anyone’s body, your body is a Temple of God and it belong’s to God, he can take it anytime he wants, and with all the evil things being said on here I’m getting off of here, a fetus is a human being, for the Bible say’s that God knows a person even before they are in the womb, so abortion is nothing more than cold blooded murder and my wife and I would take all of the Babies that we could get, so if someone wishes to save their soul and wants to do away with a baby then Please E-Mail us at tjloftis@gmail.com and we would help you and you can sign the rights, and yes God’s children do have Rights, of the baby over to us, but Please Don’t Be A Part Of Committing Murder!
HI X and Reality,
I think perhaps that you do not understand. Belief(faith) is also a PHILOSOPHICAL word/concept. It is not a religious thing to have faith (belief), but logical/philosophical. Religious-based faith is mostly about God and what He says about Himself. It is revelation (pure and simple) and is RELIGIOUS FAITH.
Rights-based faith is PHILOSOPHICAL and as such is about ALL matters of belief … egs. I BELIEVE that the world will continue past my next breath.; I BELIEVE South Africa exists, even though I’ve never been there; or, I BELIEVE my parents named me John;. We humans make hundreds, millions of assumptions all faith-based every moment of every day. Even your refusal to believe is a faith-based lack of acknowledgement in belief. For instance, YOU BELIEVE that your stance is logical enough for me to understand.
PHILOSOPHICAL belief that God exists is not a religious thingy, even though many Christian think these two the same. The knowledge about God via philosophy paints a very different aspect about God than is revealed through scriptures.
I do agree with Tyler ,,, about our value as humans coming from God. If we look at RIGHTS, it is a PHILOSOPHICAL extension of pure logic. If, like Thomas, we embrace that we are ‘TEMPLES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT’ we are investing in RELIGIOUS-faith. BTW a ‘temple’ is a huge space to roam around in. It sure ain’t a tabernacle.
re. A temple being huge…. to me, this is one reason that Jesus keeps saying that ‘He is IN me,and I IN Him”. Wander around and get to know Me from the INside!
OK here’s a little ‘lesson on reality (historically). Draw three intersecting circles and a fourth circumscribing the three. Now picture, if you will, that these are 3-D – like the three are like balloons inside a fourth, larger balloon. Let us label each inside balloon: ONE – PHYSICAL; TWO – EMOTIONS and THREE – INTELLECT. The FOURTH – FAITH.(as above). each in turn has an end/fruition point. For PHYSICAL it is PURPOSE; for EMOTIONS it is MEANING; for INTELLECT it is UNDERSTANDING; and for FAITH it is SIGNIFICANCE.
At the very core where the three intersect, you have: SIGN. With the fourth SIGN becomes SYMBOL. Try waving a bill in front of a dog. A human may salivate, a dog will have no reaction.
Dig it!
In Santa Monica on Saturday at 1 p.m. the SURVIVORS will be having a live NATIVITY SCENES DISPLAY. ANd it’s going to be awsome, so stop by the promenade, have some coco and check it out while your in the ‘hood! d:-D
My body is a temple…pity I’m atheist ;-)
Never mind xalisae, I’m sure you’ll get over it :-)
“Belief(faith) is also a PHILOSOPHICAL word/concept.” – you’ve been listening to Bill O’Reilly!
“It is revelation (pure and simple) and is RELIGIOUS FAITH” – ooo, I disagree that its a ‘revelation’ (especially pure and simple) but I shan’t argue against it having elements of philosophy to it.
“We humans make hundreds, millions of assumptions all faith-based every moment of every day.” – so you don’t truly believe in anything?
“I do agree with Tyler ,,, about our value as humans coming from God” – you’ll understand that I don’t.
“and for FAITH it is SIGNIFICANCE.” – I seriously cannot agree with that.
Hey Reality, like I mean: ‘Have you suddenly developed a serious case of the stupids?’ Your rebutal was not about the content of my words but a foolish rep;eat of what YOU BELIEVE. bill REILLEY MY FOOT. tHOSE FEW PARAGRAPHS REPRESENT DECADES OF INTELLECTUAL WORK,
if you son’t like it just say so/ Just no more mealley-mouth garbage!
Reality is a great moniker, but if it means ‘stupidity’ and ‘dishonesty’, no thanks, I can share elsewhere!
Whoa there John, retract those horns!
My reference to O’Reilly was light hearted banter because he has recently make a proclamation that religion is a philosophy. It wasn’t a dig at you. It is quite obvious that you have invested quite a bit of research and intellectual vigor into this topic.
I agree that faith is a philosophical concept – to an extent. My observation – and I know you may not like this – is that having ‘faith’ requires a larger degree of ones suspension of disbelief than other philosophical bents.
Perhaps you need to expand on what you mean by “it is revelation” for me.
What is your problem with – “We humans make hundreds, millions of assumptions all faith-based every moment of every day.” – so you don’t truly believe in anything? – from what you stated, my question is logical.
And in regards to – “and for FAITH it is SIGNIFICANCE.” – I seriously cannot agree with that.- you’ll understand that I do not agree that we require faith to achieve significance.
II really do like your spunk Reaity, but sometimes the spoofing side coments get lost on the Web.
By the hundreds, milions comment … not just I, buf gou, X, everyone who communicates HAS to make some sort of belief – you BELIEVE that i can understand what you are saying. This is simple faith. Humahs, by their very natures are creatures of faith. Thomas Aquinas had from this 6 proofs fot the exixtence of God. One proof had to do with ORDER. If YOU LOOK AT THE UNIVERSE EVERYTHING IS(HAS AN ORDER). WHY IS THAT SO? I loves the second even more. Everything moves. What/who started things moving?
He was just talking philosophy here. By the end of these six you have a small sense that maybe God does exist and that perhapd you even understand a little about Him/Her.
Aquinas is also a saint in the Catholic Church. He would be one of the first (because Thomas thought of himself, as a scripture-scholar and not-a-philosopher. He gave these six-proofs off-the-top-of[–his-head.) to point out that the God known through reason alone, is quite different than the Being God chooses to self-reveal, through scriptures. He is the same God, but known differently. Its something like you knowing your Dad ‘differently’ than one of his fellow workers, even though he is the same man. This is religious-faith … all faith is not religious.
hope this helps
I partially agree on the whole ‘faith-based assumptions about everything’ thing John. I guess its a matter of degree.
I really don’t have a lot of faith in Aquinas’s ‘proofs’. The claim that everything has an order requires an understanding and knowledge we have not yet achieved for all matters. Chaos theory etc.
John, I am not a young man. I have had my time in belief, faith, whatever. For many decades now I have found that there is nothing that demonstrates or proves the existence of god in any rational way. Its just a choice as to whether to have ‘faith’ or not.
I get it!
Thomas’ proofs have little merit these days because of Chaos … and a pile of theories like string theory (which I do not understand). But there are common everyday phenomena that pose much moel difficulties that make Thomistic views very difficulf to handle … for example, What does ‘zero” or ‘nothing’ mean in our thing-oriented universe? Or, what is a vaccuum in that it gets more powerful, fhe closer to empty it is? And what is ’empty’?
I gues the more uncertian I get, then reliance on faifh makes more and more sense.
“I gues the more uncertian I get, then reliance on faifh makes more and more sense.” – can’t you just accept that there is much that we don’t yet know?
We may require a modicum of faith to accept that some things may be so but there is enough which is apparent to not need to clasp to the concepts our ancient forebears did.
“Thomas’ proofs have little merit these days because of Chaos … and a pile of theories like string theory (which I do not understand).”
This is certainly not teh case. Aquinas’s proofs are metaphysical demonstrations i.e. they are completely and totally immune from any kind of discovery science might make. They do not depend on our lack of ability to explain a certain phenomena (like a “go of the gaps” argument) nor are they a kind of quasi-scientific discussion. They are metaphysical demonstrations from metaphysical first principles. In fact if one is getting the bulk of their understanding of Aquinas’s proofs for God from teh Summa Theologica, then they are looking in teh wrong place because the Summa Theologica is a beginner’s text in theology i.e. it is for those who already believe, not for a skeptic. His arguments for God are much more fleshed out in teh Summa Contra Gentiles, but again, an understanding of his metaphysics is necessary before trying to understand his proofs.
Hi Boby & Reality,
Being a chemist a wee bit of a philosopher and a Catholic seem a suitable mix at first blink, but like reality, i have a huge streak of skepticism.
for instance when Einstein wrote E=mcxc it seems so simple that a small amount of mass (m) could produce a huge amount of energy (E), in fact the speed of light squared. (cxc). This does not tell us what mass is, it only tells us that it can convert into energy. And since mas does not mean any kind of common stuff found an the periodic table, Einstein was talking a bit meta-physically with an emphasis more on the ‘physical’ and less on the ‘meta’
Scriptures talks about God as Creator, and tht the human’s role is to name, I have little trouble with all kinds of theories, and even sophisticated concepts like metaphysics, but the concept of ‘nothing’ and ‘vaccuum’ are akin (I think) to fantasy. even fantacy is more real than ‘nothing”. What does metaphysics ‘do’ with ‘nothing’, or ‘negativity?