Stanek weekend question: At what age should children be told about abortion?
I received this question from reader Rebecca:
I’d like to ask if you could have a weekend question about at what age children are ready to know about abortion. I know this depends on the child but it would be interesting to hear from other parents when and how they told their children about abortion and their children’s reaction. Or if they wish they had waited or told them earlier.
It’s a good question. I’ve never asked it in a headline, although it did come up in the body of the post, “How do you tell children about abortion?”
Your thoughts? Your experiences?
Jan.05, 2013 10:23 am |
Weekend question |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I have a 4, 2, and infant child(ren), and I’ll tell them when they ask. If they are old enough to ask the question, then they are old enough to have ran into the issue and therefore old enough to need and answer. Now obviously my answer for a 4 or 5 year old would be very different than if I was discussing it with a 10 year old or a 15 year old. But it’s just like death, I recently had to explain death to my 4 year old when his great grandma died. It isn’t hard, or traumatic, you just have to be honest, straightforward, and on their level.
If my 4 year old asked me what abortion is i’d tell him ‘abortion is when someone kills a baby while it’s still inside the mom’s belly. It’s very, very wrong, and very, very sad. But mommy and daddy would never let that happen to a baby in mommy’s belly’.
My oldest two are 4 and 6. They have been to funerals and understand about death. They know about miscarriage, stillbirth and neonatal demise. They’ve lost three siblings to miscarriage. We’ve had friends who have had stillbirths. My oldest read a storybook set on the prairie in Canada where the baby was born prematurely and later died.
They have watched me go through 4 other pregnancies and bring forth their sisters that they love so dearly. I have had 6 girls in the last 6 years.
They know about orphans and that some are neglected to the point of death. They have helped us pack therapy equipment to send to a little girl who was redeemed from certain death in Eastern Europe into a lovely family. She has down syndrome and was starved to the point of weighing under 20 pounds at 9 years.
They have spent a great deal of time in Chilren’s hospitals, one of mine has epilepsy. They have seen children sick and damaged and know not all of them will live to adulthood.
They know about murder, Cain killed his brother Able. They know Obama is our president and that he “hurts babies” and we must pray for him and our country.
With all this, I still can not bring myself to tell them that mothers would hire someone to kill their own children before they are born, much less that our country says it is okay to do so. How would they trust me? How would they sleep at nights? How great would be their pain and their grief.
I don’t want my kids to know about abortion for a long time. I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old, and I see no need for them to know before they are at least ten or eleven. If they ask before then I will just tell them it’s something really sad I guess. I don’t know. I just want my kids to be kids and not have to worry about this stuff for as long as possible.
Kindergarten or first grade is old enough. I told my older son when he was first grade and I was expecting. I made it as gruesome and evil as it really is. I told him how the abortionists rip off the arms and legs, cut off the heads while the little one struggles. I emphasized the pain of the child and the evil of so viciously killing the baby. It makes a big impression on a little first grader. Truth hurts and we should be horrified at evil and brutality. It is healthy to feel the disgust and horror at things that are truly horrible. It is very wrong to rationalize and shield oneself from empathizing with the pain others feel.
I think the fact that we do have this child-eating monster in the woods is terrifying to children.
I also think our youth have felt or been forced to not talk about the fact that their elders are not really doing anything about the fact that feticide is being reccommended to their age group–this monster in the woods. It used to be a myth or a fable-that there was a chupacabra or a beowolf, or a something–that was out-there to terrorize children. But now we sacrifice our children’s children to it, without even telling them it exists until it is too late for them to prepare to fight it.
If a child is in a classroom, in 6th grade, and the teacher tells that child if they find themselves in a pregnancy situation they should consider feticide, the child will naturally feel that much less valuable to his community. His children are worthless, then so is he-at least in the fact that he can contribute in the most cultural sence-which is via reproduction. We do everything to shield their eyes from this monster-everything except educate them that this monster is out there, waiting for their 450.00 with the sales pitch their parents did not warn them about-so they didn’t see it coming.
Of course they will get nightmares-nightmares which are equvlent to the reality: abortion is the murder of a child in the womb-call murder by any other name-a dead baby is a dead baby. Adam Lanza saw it in the center of town-A Planned Parenthood on Main Street, only ten minuets from Sandy Point Elementary. What was the difference to a rational child with a sensitive set of morals-who saw that a perfect town, full of perfect families and a perfect church, would do nothing to stop the death machine, that was not just outside the city gates, but in the central shopping district, where everyone went to buy Christmass gifts and have tea after. Where physically inferior children, like him, were genetically assessed, and ‘aborted.’
What did did Adam Lanza think? Babies in the womb. Yes.
He wasn’t killing them. He was releasing them. He was aborting them.
For God’s sake, I hope that when you walk into St. Rose of Lima Catholic Church, there is some sentiment to help the youth in their community deal with abortion. Because one way or another, abortion, feticide, will be dealt with-emotionally coped with, and expressed-our children are too young, their consciences unformed. It is up to us to respect the reality, that Planned Parenthood makes good money off their ignorance and shame when they get unexpectedly pregnant, while under our watch.
I think it’s a factor in why youth doesnt respect age.
After all, what are we doing in our church’s to protect our children’s unborn children???
IN OUR CHURCH’s.
We go after every other ostrosized group, exempting the abortion vulnerable in our own community.
What’s sad is mass murderers know well, that what they do is no different from what the abortion Dr. does. They know that they kill in the same fashion that a pregnant couple does when they choose abortion or feticide. The motives are often times different. there’s a difference between killing from fear, and killing for pleasure. But the results are not unequal-the taking of one human life, at the hands of another.
They know = Why don’t we. ?
“. It makes a big impression on a little first grader. Truth hurts and we should be horrified at evil and brutality. It is healthy to feel the disgust and horror at things that are truly horrible. It is very wrong to rationalize and shield oneself from empathizing with the pain others feel.”
I’m wondering about this and not trying to be offensive at all, but do you describe terrible things in the world to your kids in this kind of really graphic detail, making sure it’s incredibly graphic. I mean, I have talked to my kids about stuff like molestation because I am terrified that if something happened they wouldn’t understand and they wouldn’t tell me about it, but I didn’t describe child rape in graphic detail. I think they need to know about it but they don’t need to be pounded with graphic details of stuff like that until they are quite a bit older. Do you think that abortion is different? I’m just wondering not judging at all.
The best way to tell a child of any age about abortion is to take them with you when you go to witness life at the killing centers. They will learn that babies are killed there before they can be born. They are also the best witnesses to life because of their youth. The local Planned Parenthood is 2 blocks from my house and I’ve seen children there in strollers. It is an excellent reminder to the women who go there about the life they are carrying and it just might be the reason a woman does not have the abortion.
Yeah, I wouldn’t do the graphic detail on molestation because, well, I guess that would seem so terrifying. It is not that I don’t want them to empathize with victims or protect themselves from would be molesters. I don’t have a great answer. Mostly I tell them that strangers that want would try to get them alone or try to get them to go with them alone are going to kidnap them and kill them. I just tell them that no adults ever try to get kids to come with them unless the parents make arrangements with the adults like taking kids to school, friends’ houses, etc. I just use myself as the example and say that dad and I never ask kids to come with us or go somewhere alone with us unless their parents ask us to pick them up or take them and even then we don’t go alone. We bring them with our kids etc. I tell them that no adult wants to take kids alone away from their parents, just like we don’t. Any adult who does will probably take them out and beat them and kill them, so never trust any adult who wants you to go with them alone because because no good person wants to do that only evil ones do.
My decision wasn’t really a conscious thing. My kids asked me what a crisis pregnancy center was and what I used to do there (my oldest was 2 and my middle child not yet born when I left to be a SAHM). So I told them what I did… and they kept asking questions. Finally, I just told them that sadly, not everyone is happy to have a baby, and so forth.
I didn’t go into gory detail about how abortions are done, but the very idea that anyone wouldn’t want their child and would pay a doctor to kill him/her was mortifying to my kids (I think they were between 6 and 8 when we had our conversation). I don’t think that would make any difference whether they were 8 or 18 – they should be horrified. I’m horrified. There is no gentle way to tell children about slavery, the Holocaust, abortion, or any other human injustice. But I’d rather they hear about those things from the perspectives of their parents first.
I’ve still not allowed them to view graphic abortion photos – and they’re several years older now – but they have seen photos of prenatal development.
So far, the only effect learning about abortion early has appeared to have on them is that they have hearts for the preborn.
”
Yeah, I wouldn’t do the graphic detail on molestation because, well, I guess that would seem so terrifying. It is not that I don’t want them to empathize with victims or protect themselves from would be molesters. I don’t have a great answer. Mostly I tell them that strangers that want would try to get them alone or try to get them to go with them alone are going to kidnap them and kill them. I just tell them that no adults ever try to get kids to come with them unless the parents make arrangements with the adults like taking kids to school, friends’ houses, etc. I just use myself as the example and say that dad and I never ask kids to come with us or go somewhere alone with us unless their parents ask us to pick them up or take them and even then we don’t go alone. We bring them with our kids etc. I tell them that no adult wants to take kids alone away from their parents, just like we don’t. Any adult who does will probably take them out and beat them and kill them, so never trust any adult who wants you to go with them alone because because no good person wants to do that only evil ones do. ”
Yeah that makes sense. I think I’ve probably failed on the stranger danger awareness because I am way more scared of them being abused by someone we know, since I was abused by family members its always on my mind. I think your explanation is pretty good. I told mine and will keep telling them that certain body parts are private and no one should touch them, even mom or dad or a doctor, without good reason like if they are sick. And that they should tell me if anyone tries to.
I was mainly asking because I was wondering why you wanted your abortion description to be so graphic. I haven’t decided how I will tell mine, I like Jespren’s sentence on how she would tell her four year old if they asked but I am not sure what I will say. Do you feel like it needs to be graphic so they really understand the horror before the world starts going all pro-choice euphemism “it’s not a baby” on them?
I think all kindergarten classes, by order of the state, should have a day in which they go see a live birth, go view an abortion, go to a funeral home and watch some prep work, and watch live sex in action.
Just get it all over with.
I think that’s the right answer you folks want, correct? If I say things like Jack says about delaying this type of stuff, I’ll be labeled a horrible parent – so yeah, just get it over with right away. Age five. I’m sure they are ready for it.
Oh, they can wind down by watching Saving Private Ryan. It’s real, so therefore, it is good.
EX-GOP, through your use of extreme hyperbole, are you insinuating that any pro-lifer who decides to teach his/her child about abortion at a younger age is a “horrible parent”?
I think it’s up to parents to decide when they want to tell their children about abortion (and other human injustices), just as I did. Telling is not the same as sitting a 6 year old in front of graphic abortion videos. And I’m pretty sure you know that.
Your efforts to paint the rest of us as extreme and evil are really kind of sad.
Kel
Nope Kel – not saying that. I’m saying that through many of these discussions, pro-lifers, in general, believe that they know better than parents and the because of the severity of abortion, that the rights to show images and promote messages is greater than the right of a parent to protect their kids from those messages.
If pro-lifers had their way, and correct me if I’m wrong, but this discussion would take place very, very early because kids would ultimately see TV commercials, billboards, cards stuck in racks at shopping centers, etc…
I mean, this board fully supports tv commercials of almost any abortion content, right?
This board thinks it is super awesome to put abortion cards all over society – in payment credit card slots, pop machines, and store price holders?
This board supports billboards, large signs in public, university and church protests.
So really, why ask me the question. Just say “hey ex-GOP – our goal is to show your kids these images as early as possible in life – and then you can explain it”.
Where am I wrong here?
Where am I wrong here?
Here:
“pro-lifers, in general,…”
“If pro-lifers had their way…”
“this board fully supports…”
The only way you can come to the conclusions you have is to completely ignore the numerous pro-life commenters that object to graphic abortion pictures.
I told my kids pretty young that people sometimes want to “hurt babies” while they are still inside the tummy. We talked about evil in a simple way. I told them “little babies are very powerful. You made me and your Dad much better people. So sometimes evil wants to hurt babies while they are very tiny (inside a Mommy’s tummy) so that can’t help their Mom and Dads love Jesus more after they are born.”
We’ve had pretty advance discussions in our house at a young age between what is legal in a society and what is moral. My young kids get that its very weird that a police man will arrest a Mom if she hurts a baby after it’s born, but it’s okay to hurt a baby while it’s still inside his Mommy’s womb.
We’re a large Catholic family–so being pro-life is huge. They watch me be pregnant with a new sibling often. I’m protective with my kids about bad language on TV and sexually suggestive music videos. Obviously, I don’t think my young kids need to see an abortion done on You Tube. But they know about King Herod’s rule in the Bible. They know there are modern day King Herod’s that are still trying to hurt even smaller babies in America.
I tell my kids the truth about evil– in age appropriate ways –because they are my fellow prayer warriors. We pray to make our American culture kinder to babies.
Lrning
Are you one of those people? I don’t keep tabs…
My daughter is five. She doesn’t know “in detail” what abortion is. All she knows about the subject is “Planned Parenthood kills babies”, because she overheard me discussing PP with my husband, and she asked me later what “Planned Parenthood” was.
I didn’t know what the word “abortion” meant until i was THIRTEEN. Of course, that was a different time. I was very naiive about such things when I was that age, because it wasn’t talked about like it is today.
She has had “bad dreams” just from the few times she has happened to see the news on t.v., so we try not to watch too much of that sort of thing around her. I CERTAINLY am not going to go into detail about what abortion is with her.
She’s old enough to know that killing(babies) is WRONG, though. And she recognizes that a pre-born baby in the womb is still a BABY.
She has never asked anything about the seven siblings she has in Heaven. She knows I have been pregnant, she has seen me take pregnancy tests, but she has never asked “what happened” to the babies, so I don’t think a detailed discussion about abortion is in order just yet.
Elizabeth G.
Please tell them someday that women are lied to, coerced and so much of the time forced to abort. Please tell them that they are deceived and have no idea of the pain that abortion can bring and the lifetime of regret that we live every single day.
They pay an abortionist to kill the baby. True. And that is evil.
There is hope and forgiveness in Christ after abortion.
My children know that full well. They know all about my abortion, they know what abortion does to a baby, they have seen the graphic photos and they also know someday they will meet their sister in heaven. I told them at 10, 8 and 5. The fourth I told when he turned 5. Every time they saw a graphic photo they asked the same thing, “What happened to the poor baby?”
They also know fetal development as they have seen the ultrasounds of their siblings, heard the heartbeats, felt the kicks and believe that life begins at conception.
Your efforts to paint the rest of us as extreme and evil are really kind of sad.
No kidding. I’m just waiting for him to drop the charade of being “Pro-Life” and openly support abortion. Seriously. Any day now. Jack’s comments are serious issues and definitely understandable, and gone about in a completely non-confrontational way. Ex-RINO’s comments are just disrespectful, rude, ignorant, and insulting. I’m just waiting for him to go from “I’m Pro-Life.” to “I’m Pro-Life…Pro-Choice is Pro-Life.” seriously. He already votes the right way for that as it is. At least then his rhetoric will match his actions.
It’s funny to see how hesitant and protective people here are when it comes to showing their own young children graphic abortion images, while at the same time they are fully supportive of yahoos like Todd Bullis in his efforts to set up displays showing the same images to other people’s young children in front of schools and churches.
When they are first being told where babies come from, they should also be told where they sometimes go. Whether that be miscarriage or abortion. It’s the most unpleasant side of the discussion, but they must know the truth from the beginning, along with your opinions on all this.
It’s clear that half the country has never truly come to grips with the good, bad, and ugly of human reproduction, when they can have fantasyland opinions that children are only important at the particular moment YOU care about them.
My daughter just turned 10. It’s been a significant milestone for both of us. I was typing up a personal article about what I went through when I was pregnant with her, and how emotional her birthdays are for me because if her father would’ve had his way, she never would’ve had a birthday from the start, and had put my laptop down, and she found it while I was in the bathroom. She asked me what happened, and after hiding it from her for a decade, I finally told her. Sure, she had asked a little bit about “abortion” and what that meant before then, but I told her that I’d explain to her when she was older, because I felt that a certain degree of the “abortion thing” was inextricably linked to the entire issue of sexual reproduction, and at the time she was much too young for such a discussion. But, at 10 she found the “abortion thing”, and found out it affected her personally in her life before she was even born, and wanted to know more. So, we (her adoptive father and I) began the explanation, and let her know we’d be following up with the rest of the information on how the child winds up where it does in the first place. It was terrible, but like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders. I’d like to wait with her younger brother just as long. I think ten years of bliss is satisfactory for a child. I was younger than that when I first started thinking about the weight of the world. Granted, my parents never told me about abortion or what it was, and I wish they would have, but I watched a lot of news when I was younger, so other things were on my mind.
A lot of it has to do with a child’s maturity level too, though. Mags has been reading at a 9th grade level since around 3rd grade, so that’s rather broadened her horizons as well. To each his or her own. If it affects your child more directly, I think they’re basically ENTITLED to know about it a little sooner. If they’re mature enough to understand things and handle the subject matter, that affects the situation, too. Even a parent’s comfort level should be considered to some degree. Everyone is different.
It’s clear that half the country has never truly come to grips with the good, bad, and ugly of human reproduction, when they can have fantasyland opinions that children are only important at the particular moment YOU care about them.
True, Hans. Or that abortion “prevents” anything other than a human being continuing their life, as if it somehow erases someone from existence rather than the bloody mess it actually is.
It’s funny to see how hesitant and protective people here are when it comes to showing their own young children graphic abortion images, while at the same time they are fully supportive of yahoos like Todd Bullis in his efforts to set up displays showing the same images to other people’s young children in front of schools and churches.
Not really. Most parents don’t sit down with their three-year olds watching footage of 9/11, but they also don’t freak out when the same images appear on the cover of Time Magazine in a grocery store that many people take their young children to.
My son is 6 and he has known about abortion since he was 3 and a half. I think he asked and so I explained. I have not shown him the photos of abortion yet. If he accidentally sees one at a protest, so be it. But I am not going to go out of my way to show him that yet.
Of course my son discusses things like the “physical cliff” (he means fiscal cliff) and we have conversations on the Fed Reserve, Libya etc… my husband calls him Alex. P. Keaton. My son likes to discuss deep things.
I was 8 when I found out about abortion and it really devastated me. I had also seen a photo of an aborted baby. But it also made me pro-life. It made me vow to keep myself chaste when I hit my teen years and I was.
All kids are different and parents know their child best. But I found that when I assured my son that he was always safe in my womb and that I never thought of aborting him he was fine. He was sad that mommies would do that to their babies but he felt secure knowing I would never have done that to him.
Do you feel like it needs to be graphic so they really understand the horror before the world starts going all pro-choice euphemism “it’s not a baby” on them?
Yes, exactly. When you tell kids it is wrong to kill people or hurt people, you don’t have to worry that the kindergarten or first grade teacher is going to be telling them that it is a viable choice, except in the case of people who are not yet born. So, you have to be clear that abortion is a brutal and violent torture and dismemberment and murder of a tiny person before he is born. They need to hear the horrible truth before the candy coating evil liars get to them first. That way, if anyone tries to tell them anything else, they will know better.
I think all kindergarten classes, by order of the state, should have a day in which they go see a live birth, go view an abortion, go to a funeral home and watch some prep work, and watch live sex in action.
Straw man alert.
“It’s funny to see how hesitant and protective people here are when it comes to showing their own young children graphic abortion images, while at the same time they are fully supportive of yahoos like Todd Bullis in his efforts to set up displays showing the same images to other people’s young children in front of schools and churches.”
Pssh, I am willing to bet you that the same people who would be upset about their kids being shown graphic images until later in life are opposed to using graphic images in general (some special circumstances might call for them). I am sure you are quite aware of this anyway.
This back and forth about graphic pictures is exactly why I believe the ‘correct’ age is ‘when they ask’. We live in a fallen world where horrific things of every discription happen every day. Come on, if any of us are being even remotely honest we’d say the ‘right’ time to discuss such things with children is NEVER. No child should ever be exposed to such horrors in an ideal situation. But we’re not *in* an ideal situation. I wish I didn’t have to explain thievery to my then 2 year old when his bike was stolen. I wish I didn’t have to explain death, slavery, murder, fornication, abortion, orphans, etc to my children. But, we live in a world where they *will* incounter these things, and likely at a very young age. It is far, far better to explain that when they incounter it than leave them struggling with it or for them to get an answer elsewhere. So if we went past a graphic abortion sign and my 2 year old asked ‘what happened to that baby?’ And my 4 year old asked ‘why is that baby hurt?’ I would explain. I would not be upset that they saw it, although I would not, at this age, go out of my way to expose them to that. I don’t intentionally show them movies or media with foul language, sex, sadistic violence, etc, but should they come across it I would explain it to them, because obviously they are now of an age when they need that explaination. I’ve already had to explain thievery, death, murder, adultery, slavery and ‘how did the baby get in there?’ to my 4 year old. And 3 out of 6 there were brought up by Genesis Bible study (and slavery by the Moses story via Prince of Egypt). Surely explaining killing baby boys by pharoh (or the last plague for that matter) isn’t more difficult to explain than abortion today, and I can’t imagine any Christians or Catholics on here who would say any child is too young to be exposed to the Bible. (Although there certainly are non-christians who take that stance).
I am fan of “when they ask”.
My kids are 10, 7, 4 and I’m very active in the pro-life movement and none of them have asked, so none of them know. (None of them know about Sandy Hook yet, either. No cable TV and we homeschool.)
When they ask, I will find a very age-appropriate way of explaining it–WITHout pictures AT ALL.
I only have one shot at giving my kids a trauma-free childhood.
My great-grandparents’extended family survived the Holocaust, my grandparents survived the Depression, and my husband and friends survived 9/11 — but they were all adults at the time. I do not see any reason whatsoever to shatter my children’s innocence a heartbeat too soon.
When my family and I walked in a local “Walk for Life” fundraiser for a Pregnancy Care Center (two years ago) my oldest asked what they did, and all I had to say was the truth: they help pregnant mothers and families with their growing babies, inside and when they come out.
The world around us is constantly conspiring to strip the magic and safety of childhood away from our precious kids and I can see absolutely no benefit in conspiring with their eventual disillusion.
“I only have one shot at giving my kids a trauma-free childhood.”
“The world around us is constantly conspiring to strip the magic and safety of childhood away from our precious kids and I can see absolutely no benefit in conspiring with their eventual disillusion.”
This times one billion. My ex-wife thinks I am overprotective and nuts about the subject, but they only get to be kids and blissfully ignorant about how much this world sucks once. I had zero time to be an innocent kid and having that taken from you sucks and can cause some problems. I don’t care if people think I am a bit overprotective, I just want my kids to look back at childhood as a happy carefree time, not a time where they constantly worried about the horrible things that adults can do to children.
I dunno. I remember my biggest fear in first grade being nuclear war. I’m glad I’ve been aware of and interested in goings on around the world from a young age. If anything catastrophic has ever happened, I’ve been much less afraid of it on the whole because it’s not like just being thrust into something terrible all of a sudden unawares. There was a lead-up, and I was always in the know about what’s going on around me. I guess I’ve always been kind of a control freak about myself and my surroundings to an extent. Maybe that’s why hard drugs never held any sort of appeal for me? :/
I just took what G.I. Joe said to heart. Now you know…and knowing is half the battle!
There is good and there is evil.
My children know quite well that we have to fight evil everyday.
The world we live in is a sin sick evil place.
And you can still have a happy carefree childhood with that knowledge.
”
I dunno. I remember my biggest fear in first grade being nuclear war. I’m glad I’ve been aware of and interested in goings on around the world from a young age. If anything catastrophic has ever happened, I’ve been much less afraid of it on the whole because it’s not like just being thrust into something terrible all of a sudden unawares. There was a lead-up, and I was always in the know about what’s going on around me. I guess I’ve always been kind of a control freak about myself and my surroundings to an extent. Maybe that’s why hard drugs never held any sort of appeal for me? :/
I just took what G.I. Joe said to heart. Now you know…and knowing is half the battle!”
Well I see this and understand it, I just think there is a balance between preparing your kids for the world and taking away their one time to be innocent and carefree in any sense of the world. Telling my kids that some body parts are private and they should say no and tell me if anyone tries to touch them is a necessary preparation, in case that comes up. Graphically describing what it’s like to be forced to perform sexual favors would just be frightening and traumatizing them and unnecessary to protecting them.
It’s not like I’m naive and don’t think my kids will eventually need to deal with harsh realities, but I just want them to be able to be kids for at least a little bit. My son and I watched Up the other night and we had a good conversation about what it meant to be old and die, which he probably doesn’t grasp in any real sense at his age but he got some age appropriate information on it. I just think there’s a line between bringing up adult things like abortion and death and rape and stuff like that too early and graphically, or waiting until they have to deal with that stuff with no preparation.
And I am in no way judging or trying to say that other parents are making poor decisions for their kids if they disagree with me. It’s just my personal opinion for how I want to raise my kids. YMMV.
My kids are 8 and 6. Right now they know that sometimes when a woman learns she is pregnant she feels afraid instead of happy, and some people tell those moms that they can have an operation that will kill the baby while it is still so tiny that a lot of people don’t think of it as a baby yet. This knowledge has been gradually waded into. They haven’t seen graphic photos and don’t have a firm grasp of the reproductive system or human anatomy to put a lot of details into the images that these terms bring about. Our emphasis is on helping moms in need and families in general.
In general, I try to cultivate a relational environment where they are free and feel free to talk about anything with me. So far, so good. I figure that as life exposes them (and I am open to that happening whenever and wherever it naturally happens) then I will continue to help them grapple with the information they are learning.
If something pollyanna-ish should transpire and they remain sheltered from the darkness of abortion by the time they are old enough to procreate themselves, then we’ll probably put it in their face more. By then they will be responsible as voices in their own generation, talking to peers who will be facing these issues personally.
I agree, and I totally understand where you’re coming from, too, Jack. Disagreement doesn’t have to equal disrespect. <3
“I agree, and I totally understand where you’re coming from, too, Jack. Disagreement doesn’t have to equal disrespect. <3”
Definitely. I know that if I find it offensive to be told that not showing my kids abortion photos is bad parenting, that I would want to tell another parent that making different decisions is bad parenting. It’s rude and hypocritical to judge like that.
During a Life walk that I (intentionally) brought my older daughter to, she saw the baby feet on our Tshirts, so I told her that our walk helped tiny babies, that some people think that the little ones inside bellies don’t count, but we’re really smart and know that they do. She was five then, and is smart as a whip. As for more detailed discussion, I will certainly wait til she asks.
“I told my older son when he was first grade and I was expecting. I made it as gruesome and evil as it really is. I told him how the abortionists rip off the arms and legs, cut off the heads while the little one struggles. I emphasized the pain of the child and the evil of so viciously killing the baby. It makes a big impression on a little first grader.”
You should have played some horror movie music in the background. That would have really set the mood.
You have taken the first step in realizing that abortion is a horror.
The horror is that this person has children. I feel such sadness for that little, (once) innocent boy.
Then the horror you feel for the children who are actually killed by abortionists should be so intense it makes you rip your own eyes out, then we won’t have to see any of your comments again! Yay!
Blessed Epiphany to everyone!
If we are doing our civil duty — praying on the sidewalks and helping out with crisis pregnancy centers — then our children grow up knowing about abortion in a natural and organic way. Just like children grew up in slave-owners’ homes and in abolitionists’ homes and in slaves’ quarters, abortion is everywhere and there is no reason to hide it.
My pro-life friends with very young children bring them to sidewalk, “to pray for the babies.” As the children reach pre-school age, they begin to ask, “WHY do we come here to pray for babies?” The child is ready to learn more, and the parent can discern what level of detail is best for the child at that time.
I was twelve years old in 1973, when the January headline forced the discussion in our house. My mother couldn’t even pronounce the word properly — she said ’aborption’ for days — because it was not a word that she had ever needed to speak before.
My baby sister was two years old at the time. I could not imagine anyone doing that to a child. I’ve been pro-life since that moment.
Before anyone can answer, one has to determine what is wrong with telling them about abortion at all? If no harm is done, then, by all means, go ahead! Why wait to teach a youth how to read at 8 yrs old, if he is ready at 4? The only problem here is that they are innocent & will have a hard time believing there are that many evil people in the world supporting it. So, if anything, you should constantly remind the innocent youth about how bad most people are & watch out for them. Teaching them about abortion, hence, greatly benefits them. Where’s the controversy?
Thanks Jill for posting my question! It’s been really interesting reading all the comments.
My eldest daughter is 5 and we have Lennart Nilssons ‘A child is born’ lying around. What a wonderful moment it is when she points to the ‘cell clump’ photo and says ‘Look mummy, a baby’. :-)
I reckon that graphic abortion photos are more useful for educating and/or convicting adults who don’t want to face the truth about abortion than kids. Kids will think abortion is terrible but probably won’t start saying ‘But it’s not a baby, it’s just some tissue’ etc etc. They’ll sort of just accept it. But if my daughter were to see a graphic picture somewhere I guess that would be a good opportunity to to start talking about abortion.
Anyhow, whenever that moment comes I just hope and pray that I’ll talk to them about it in a way that makes them angry at the injustice of abortion and lights a fire inside of them that is determined to fight it for the rest of their lives!
Forgot to write that Carla, what you wrote is really important!
About not only talking about the death of the baby but also how not all mothers/fathers want to abort and the pain that can follow. Really important that older kids begin to understand this too.
xalisae -
Of course, option C when somebody doesn’t agree with you “Oh, stop being a fake and admit you are pro-choice”. If I had a nickel…
I’m just saying, there have been NUMEROUS decisions concerning graphic pictures in public before – and when I’ve expressed my concern about exposing children to graphic images before they are ready – I’m typically met with “you are a pro-choicer in disguise” or “you are a terrible father” or “you are a deadbeat dad”. It is really quite humorous then, to me, that the question would even be asked.
Now, it is good seeing some people on this board admit that yes, parents should have some control over when kids are talked to about abortion and exposed to it. That’s a great first step.
It is interesting though if anybody is making the connection and saying that this stance means that you’d have a tough time supporting graphic images in some public places – including outside churches in protests.
Ex I honestly think that in this case it might be the way you come across. Not every conversation, because I think you get unfairly ad hominem attacked and smacked down rudely for unnecessary reasons in some convos, but in the graphic photo conversations I don’t know what it is man. You come across fairly aggressive even when you are the first post on the thread dissenting against the majority. I basically share your views on graphic photos and exposing kids to those in public, but I don’t get even 25% of the crap you do about it and never have. I can really only guess that it’s either that I am a bit more polite about expressing my views on it or I didn’t vote for Obama. Either or.
Jack -
Ha – yes. I agree. Sometimes the things I read on this board – it just boggles my mind, and my style (here at least) isn’t to hold hands, understand each others positions, and find a middle ground of mutual appreciation. I respect many on this board…unfortunately, I’ve had enough runs in with some people that the discussions get pretty screwy, pretty fast.
I just ,overall, think that the pro-life movement reflected on this site isn’t a movement that is going to ease suffering and cause changes anytime soon. I equate it to the animal rights movement. There’s organizations such as humane societies that have made great strides through how they do things. Then there’s places like the Earth Liberation Front or PETA. They make a lot of noise, but the way they go about it isn’t going to make inroads with the masses (in my less than humble opinion).
The only problem here is that they are innocent & will have a hard time believing there are that many evil people in the world supporting it.
I’m far from innocent and I still have a hard time believing there are that many people in the world supporting abortion (and voting for those who enable and promote it).
X at 8:39 a.m. Thanks for the visual! Preach it, Sister!
Of course, option C when somebody doesn’t agree with you
Nah. Jack was pretty astute in his observation. It’s THE COMBINATION of your insulting tone AND your counter-productive actions what does it. Not just that we disagree. As stated in one of my original posts on this thread, I’m perfectly capable of disagreeing with someone but still respecting their opinion and methods. PRO-TIP: don’t be an arse about it.
P.S. Think about if the discussions we have were about slavery. Think about the actual history, the process of abolition, and what happened. What kind of abolitionist do you think you’d have made by your deeds and actions, Ex-RINO? A good one, or a crappy one? Really think hard about it!
I also have Lennart Nilsson’s book and the photos are amazing. When I was pregnant with my second son my first son loved to look at the photos of “products of conception” ;-) and see how big his baby brother was at the time.
My pregnancy also piqued his curiosity about how babies are made, where in the belly do they grow and how does the baby get in there. I found some great books “The Story of Me” and “Before You Were Born” and read them to my son. They are pretty frank about sex but present sexuality the way God views it. That it is wonderful and good and something married husbands and wives do. It talks about the sperm and the egg and my son asked me a lot of questions. I didn’t act embarrassed or upset. I treated my sons questions seriously and answered them .
Kids are exposed to sex all the time. Even watching the evening news suggestive commercials come on. I’d rather my son have a healthy view of sexuality (without being titillating) than learn about it from kids on the playground.
Sorry, off topic I know. It just popped into my head thinking about abortion and how it all ties in together.
Xalisae –
And your contention/belief is that I’m only giving it out, and that I never get flack from others?
I think I’ve made a pretty good pro-lifer to tell you the truth – thanks for asking!
Ex-RINO says: June 10, 2012 at 11:08 pm “For the record, I have three kids, my wife and I would never ever have considered an abortion, and I’m against it as I equate it to murder.”
Ex-RINO says: June 11, 2012 at 7:56 am“…at the end of the day, I’m more likely than not to vote democrRAT…”
Ex-RINO says September 6, 2012 at 8:41pm “I’ve actually started to seriously think about not voting this election.”
Ex-RINO says September 9, 2012 at 8:27pm “I’ve far from decided what I’m going to do this election… I can’t vote for Romney. But beyond that, I’m still deciding.”
Ex-RINO says: January 5, 2013 at 12:58pm “I think all kindergarten classes, by order of the state, should have a day in which they go see a live birth, go view an abortion, go to a funeral home and watch some prep work, and watch live sex in action.”
Ex-RINO says: January 6, 2013 at 11:36 am
“I think I’ve made a pretty good pro-lifer to tell you the truth”…
Finally Ken – nice to see you posting some great quotes – I was afraid you’d be forever caught in the birther movement and the worship of Romney! Did a 12 step program move you past this?
Hi everyone. I’ve been thinking about this question a lot this weekend and I can’t say that I have much of an answer. I honestly have no idea when I found out, it almost feels like I’ve always known about it. I do agree that it depends on the maturity level of the individual child, and that circumstances beyond your control may necessitate the conversation. Other than that, I don’t have much to say other than great comments, guys.
Please bear in mind that as a post abortive mom I am involved in prolife work and have been for a long time. It is personal for me. My children have watched me march and speak at prolife banquets and tell my story at churches and get all kinds of literature in the mail…….they know because it is my ministry. :) And I will have to pass the torch someday to my young prolife warriors.
I appreciate this thread. Very much.
Bottom line when the child is ready they will ask the questions. They want to know the truth and how we present that truth is important. They take their cues from us.
Wonder when and what proabort parents tell their kids?
Perhaps I am too far gone, but in my view children younger than 11 are always PL. They often have a mix of profound curiosity; a huge sense of awe; and, a marked sense of injustice (no complacency here). So the question is framed wrongly IMHO. It should ask whether taking/undermining children’s innate innosence is EVER OK? Is this the job’ of modern-parenting?
Carla says:
Wonder when and what proabort parents tell their kids?
Great question!
No offense Carla & Lrning but, it isn’t WHAT THEY TELL THEIR CHILDREN but do-they-ever-LISTEN (and give credence) to what their children are saying?
“Jack –
Ha – yes. I agree. Sometimes the things I read on this board – it just boggles my mind, and my style (here at least) isn’t to hold hands, understand each others positions, and find a middle ground of mutual appreciation. I respect many on this board…unfortunately, I’ve had enough runs in with some people that the discussions get pretty screwy, pretty fast.”
Yeah, well I get it. There are people here I just refuse to engage seriously because it goes nowhere, but I just kid around because I don’t take them seriously. Anyone I take seriously at all I at least attempt politeness. Different strokes, sometimes a more upfront and aggressive approach works for people. But, regarding that, you can’t really be surprised if someone reacts to your tone and escalates it. Though I do think it’s super rude to call someone a bad parent or whatever just for not agreeing with graphic photos.
“I just ,overall, think that the pro-life movement reflected on this site isn’t a movement that is going to ease suffering and cause changes anytime soon. I equate it to the animal rights movement. There’s organizations such as humane societies that have made great strides through how they do things. Then there’s places like the Earth Liberation Front or PETA. They make a lot of noise, but the way they go about it isn’t going to make inroads with the masses (in my less than humble opinion). ”
Oh I am a vegetarian and animal rights supporter and I despise PETA and their tactics. And I actually get what you are saying. But I don’t give up on animal rights because PETA sucks, I just try to convince my peers that they are going about it the wrong way. Sometimes things tend to the extreme in the pro-life movement, I do agree, and I’m not fond of that. But I don’t see how being aggressive about it helps. I figure that I’ll just say my piece and if I can make people see my point of view I am cool with that. It’s not like I’m going anywhere, I think if the goal is worthy you can put up with some crap along the way. That’s in my less than humble opinion. :)
I am post abortive and I have been taking my kids to pro-life events since the oldest was in 3rd grade. They all know abortion equals the killing of a child. A couple of my kids have run across images of aborted babies and I talk them through it. It is meant to be horrifying but they will never forget it. I do not feel that it has impacted their childhood. I don’t care if others think I am being too bold with my kids. I am ensuring that they will NEVER feel wishy washy or confused about abortion and I want to make it such a horrifying idea that if they ever become pregnant when they aren’t really ready to be a parent, I want abortion to not even be considered as an option.
I have not told them of my abortions yet. I don’t feel it the right time but that the time is coming soon, especially for my oldest now that she is a teen.
Ultimately, it is up to the parents but should be when the kids start asking.
“Then the horror you feel for the children who are actually killed by abortionists should be so intense it makes you rip your own eyes out, then we won’t have to see any of your comments again! Yay!”
There was nothing humorous about either of my comments. Gruesome and brutal, to a 6-7 year old child. All I could imagine, reading that, was my daughter’s sweet little innocent six-year-old face. And then I tried to imagine telling her such things, the look in her eyes.
I do wonder why you take such a mocking tone with those who find that grotesque. Maybe you think it’s cute; I don’t know. I’m not criticizing the prolife movement. I’m criticizing something that I think can be cruel for a child to experience. You’ve mentioned more than once that you have superior reasoning skills, so that shouldn’t have been too difficult to parse. I do appreciate a bit of clever snark; but as I said, I don’t think this is a humorous subject.
CityOfAngels, with all due respect, you don’t know what Adam Lanza was thinking and it’s inappropriate IMO for you to pretend that you do. I understand and to some extent agree that things such as the tragedy in Sandy Hook can speak to a larger disregard for the value of human life, but that point can be made without stating opinions as fact when it comes to the minds and motivations of mentally ill mass-murderers. My gentleman knew the killer’s mother and so did lots of other people and even none of them really make any claims to having insight into his motivations.
There is no Planned Parenthood in Sandy Hook, or Newtown. There is one in the nearest city, Danbury, but they are not the same “perfect town” and they are a short distance on the highway from each other. From my fairly intimate knowledge of the area, given that the 6-year old I love and care for spent most of his life in Sandy Hook and was initially zoned into the first grade classes that were targeted last month, it’s unlikely that Adam Lanza would have been very aware of the presence of the Planned Parenthood in Danbury. I won’t say that he wasn’t, because I can’t know for sure, but it seems unlikely. I know that you would like to make this a very dramatic editorialization, with the Planned Parenthood next to the slaughtered elementary school children next to the complicit church, but you can make those points without incorrectly and inappropriately claiming that Lanza was a “rational,” “sensitive” kid who saw abortion every day as he went about town and took it to its logical extreme. Abortion is too close to home, wherever it is. It doesn’t need to be right next to 20 innocent dead 6-year olds to be a factor.
Why is St. Rose of Lima church being blamed at all? They are actively pro-life:
http://www.strosechurch.com/ministries/parish-organizations/pro-life-and-pro-family/
Ex-RINO says: June 10, 2012 at 11:08 pm “For the record, I have three kids, my wife and I would never ever have considered an abortion, and I’m against it as I equate it to murder.”
Ex-RINO says: June 11, 2012 at 7:56 am“…at the end of the day, I’m more likely than not to vote democrRAT…”
Ex-RINO says September 6, 2012 at 8:41pm“I’ve actually started to seriously think about not voting this election.”
Ex-RINO says September 9, 2012 at 8:27pm“I’ve far from decided what I’m going to do this election… I can’t vote for Romney. But beyond that, I’m still deciding.”
Ex-RINO says: January 5, 2013 at 12:58pm “I think all kindergarten classes, by order of the state, should have a day in which they go see a live birth, go view an abortion, go to a funeral home and watch some prep work, and watch live sex in action.”
Ex-RINO says: January 6, 2013 at 11:36 am “I think I’ve made a pretty good pro-lifer to tell you the truth”…
Please provide us with any adulatory ‘quotes’ of my own concerning Mitt Romney.
Romney once quipped that everyone knew who he was, who his parents were and where he was birthed.
Something no living person can and/or will say about mr. bo-jangles, except his paternal grandmother in Kenya.
Heck, we can’t even identify a female who claims to have had a date with the obamateur, except moochelle.
It was you who dubbed me ’kenthebirther’, a label that I have accepted. You meant it as ridicule, but I am proud to be identied as one who takes the constitution seriously.
Something you do not do except when it suits you…you know, just like mr. bo-jangles.
If there is a fauning, willfully ignorant, boot licking, psychophant among us, it is you.
Four years and counting and the unemployment rate is still floundering at 8%.
Club Gitmo is still open. We still have troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Arab Spring has sprung, the national debt has increased dramatically, and the democRATs are salivating over the prospect of $1,000,000,000,000,000.00 in new tax revenues [That’s a
And mr. bo-jangles has not rested…from playing golf…while an ambassador, a state department employee and two state department contractors are murdered due to ‘sloppiness’ on his watch.
Just who was sloppy the long legged on the down low mac daddy won’t say. [Perhaps it was his ex-gilrfriend or George W. Bush.]
Someone refused to provide ammunition for weapons the Marines carry when they are guarding our embassies. [That is the kind of leadership you get when you vote with your lady parts.]
I have a great idea…let the obamateur stand guard at an embassy with a weapon that is not loaded.
I don’t think this is a humorous subject, either. I don’t like that I have to spend my time fighting for basic human rights for children who should have them by default-who had them and then had them stripped away in a mockery of justice in my country. I would much rather be watching Monty Python and chuckling at Mitch Hedberg. It’s not humor I’m going for, but mocking condescension of someone who seems so caught up in the minutiae of a subject that they overlook the actual horror of the issue itself.
It sucks that I had to explain to my child that we live in a world and in a society that didn’t respect her or protect her rights when she was very young. It’s terrible that her father wanted me to have her killed early in her life and she knows that now because it’s something I struggle with myself to. this. DAY. It sucks that when her younger brother has this talk with us, he’s going to imagine a world without the big sister he ADORES even for one moment and replace her in his mind with an empty room and a tiny corpse that was his predecessor. There’s nothing funny about this.
But acting as though the knowledge, emotion, or any trauma inflicted comes even the SLIGHTEST BIT CLOSE to the actual act itself…just makes your horror and indignation seem…muted…to say the least.
I took my 3 year year old on a Face the Truth Tour and when she asked what the signs were I told her we were using them to raise awareness so people passing by help the babies like the ones in the picture from being killed by bad people. She said she wanted to help and hold a sign.
Pro-aborts would rather children were not exposed to the truth until they can be manipulated into thinking there is justification for tearing babies from their mother’s wombs.
Does anybody have to wonder what Jews with children did during the holocaust? I bet they told them. I bet they didn’t ignore the subject. They had no choice. The children want to know why everyone was acting crazy & nervous & being told not to talk to anyone. Any parent not filling their children in were hurting their chances for survival. It would be a big insult to the kid if something important is going on & the parents don’t trust the kid to know anything as if he was stupid & wouldn’t understand or something. You probably couldn’t inflict more injury into the kid by shunning him from what is going on. The kids want to be included in stuff & feel like they are important enough to be part of the family as if they count. So, ya, same thing with abortion, by not telling them when the issue comes up has more of a negative effect on the kid. Anyone who ignores the truth will live to regret it.
”so caught up in the minutiae of a subject that they overlook the actual horror of the issue itself.”
I haven’t overlooked it. I think that graphic sort of description is too much for my child at her age. Probably for many children. Some of the other ways described here did not seem so brutal.
“just makes your horror and indignation seem…muted…to say the least.”
Muted, with some handy ellipses, is as good a word as any to dismiss and diminish, I suppose.
Pro-aborts would rather children were not exposed to the truth until they can be manipulated into thinking there is justification for tearing babies from their mother’s wombs.
You have found the truth, truthseeker.
Ironically, if you’ve ever been out there holding one of those graphic signs, you would know that children are not terrified by those pictures.
It’s the adults who are supportive, doing nothing or very little to stop the abortion of fetuses, who are upset. And it’s the women who have actually had aboriton, and the men who have encouraged their child’s abortion that get the most emotional.
It’s wrong, the public needs to know what’s going on under their very noses.
If you don’t like how the neighborhood Aushwitz smells, telling your child it’s burnt bread won’t make the smell go away, or make them trust you anymore or any less when they are old enough to be making decisions about where they stand on what’s going in in their neighborhoods and communites, especially when they look to Mom and Dad and see what they did to stop it. Did they look away? Or did they see a wrong, and try to right it?
I enjoy that I wrote a freak out post about how pro-lifers (on this board), don’t care about parents wishes and best judgment about when to introduce subjects like this…and then I got a rush of pro-lifers saying how wrong I was…and by the end, we have a bunch of people saying that no, parents wishes don’t matter, abortion is too horrible and we should expose kids whether or not parents believe their kids are ready for it.
And yet people freak out when schools talk about having sex ed in kindergarten. Same thing. Other people deciding what’s right for my kids…
“I enjoy that I wrote a freak out post about how pro-lifers (on this board), don’t care about parents wishes and best judgment about when to introduce subjects like this…and then I got a rush of pro-lifers saying how wrong I was…and by the end, we have a bunch of people saying that no, parents wishes don’t matter, abortion is too horrible and we should expose kids whether or not parents believe their kids are ready for it.”
Yeah it’s actually fairly offensive. I think I’m going to make fliers of animals being torn apart for meat and burnt up after animal testing, and pass it out to kindergartners. If anyone objects I will just inform them that I know better for their kids.
“Ironically, if you’ve ever been out there holding one of those graphic signs, you would know that children are not terrified by those pictures.”
Lies. I was absolutely terrified of those signs when I was dragged to protests when I was like four or five. All kids are different, some are pretty sensitive to stuff like that. My son is like I was, he cries when he sees a dead bird or anything like that. I can’t imagine him being okay with ripped apart human babies until he is quite a bit older. Parents know what’s best for their kids. I don’t judge your parenting choices how about you step off mine?
Jack
I liked your 8:39 comment, in part, because I know your are smart enough and logical enough not to do that.
Lol of course I wouldn’t. Unlike SOME people I respect parental rights.
What is lost on the two geniuses in theier mutual admiration club is private citizens exercising their first ammendment right of free speech in the market place is not like the government indoctrinating the captive audience of children who are forced to endure the humanist liberal drivel that is foisted upon them as a result of compulsory attendance laws.
Instructing kindergarten age children about homosexuality or heterosexuality has nothing to do with reading, writing and arithmetic.
Those subjects are best left to the children’s parents to determine at what age it is appropriate to discuss with their children.
If and when children see images or are confronted with issues in the public market place that the parents judge are not appropriate have the opportunity to address the subjects at that time or at a later date in a manner the parent deems is suitable to the child’s understanding.
We have all done it when our children witness or hear things we know are still beyond their emotional and intellectual capacity.
It is the parents primary responsibility to determine these things, not mis-guided liberal/progressive/humanist fools who arrogantly and erroneously believe they are superior to the serfs who disagree with them.
Another name for these elitist doctrinaires is democRATs.
I see the libs have trotted out their latest ‘unassailable victim’ to undermine the 2nd ammendment to the Constituion. Former democRAT congressman Gabriel Giffords.
Predictably the media is spot lighting Giffords and ignoring the Atlanta, Georgia mother who used a hand gun to protect her children and herself from a crow bar wielding home invader who picked the wrong woman to mess with.
It’s too bad the mom did not have an assault weapon or a hand gun with a high capacity magazine that would have ensured a quick trip to Forest Lawn Cemetary for the low life fellow who broke into her home.
“What is lost on the two geniuses in theier mutual admiration club is private citizens exercising their first ammendment right of free speech in the market place is not like the government indoctrinating the captive audience of children who are forced to endure the humanist liberal drivel that is foisted upon them as a result of compulsory attendance laws.”
I dare you to show me where I have said that anyone should have their free speech laws curtailed in any way. I’ll be waiting!