Pro-life vid of day: FL judge ok’s three-parent birth certificate
by LauraLoo
A Florida judge recently approved the adoption of Emma, a baby girl that will list three people as parents on her birth certificate – a lesbian couple and a gay man.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kkRAurD9gA[/youtube]
Is this part of the “slippery slope” society claims will never actually lead to further immorality?
Email dailyvid@jillstanek.com with your video suggestions.
Feb.13, 2013 12:00 pm |
Video of the day |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
There is no problem with this. Why is it even the concern of anyone here, really? Is this something prolifers absolutely have to be obsessed with?
Welp.
How many husbands and wives is “too many?” 4 men on the birth certificate? ? 3 women?
Where does it end?
And those that are proabortion and continually comment on a prolife blog seem a tad obsessed to me. :)
Dude’s fakin’ gay to get booty.
Just wait until he has to pay child support – he’s the father of record.
Someone ought to tell the judge he’s not really a guest star on Three’s Company….
I don’t think this is confined to gay people. I know stepparents who want legal involvement in their stepchildren’s lives, but can’t adopt because the bio dad or mom doesn’t want to give up parental rights, for whatever reasons. That could help those people out.
But anyway, I don’t see how this is the worst thing in the world.
And lol you guys always complain about gay adoption “depriving children of a mother and father”. Well, there you go.
Since it takes a village to raise a child, why not include close friends in the community? How about the family pet(s)?
The judge is a dead ringer for Senator Craig, who allegedly played footsie in an airport bathroom. Just sayin’ What am I just sayin’? ;)
Anything they can do to erode Marriage, expect it. Sinners actively seek to defy God.
“Surounded by so much love”? Heck, these 3 are already fighting each other.
To those who have no problem with this arrangement, someday your line will be crossed. Unless you fully accept any and all parental configurations, regardless of gender and gender status (sex change etc.), sexual orientation, relationship of parents, number of parents, and other arrangements we cannot yet imagine, you will someday be seen as obstructing someone’s self appointed rights.
As a father, I object to being marginalized or made irrelevant by those that claim that 2 (or more) women parenting are equivalent to traditional mother-father parenting (this holds for mothers also when discussing 2 men as parents). “2 women = mom and dad” makes me worthless and I refuse to accept that.
Jim said, As a father, I object to being marginalized or made irrelevant by those that claim that 2 (or more) women parenting are equivalent to traditional mother-father parenting (this holds for mothers also when discussing 2 men as parents). “2 women = mom and dad” makes me worthless and I refuse to accept that.
Couldn’t agree more. Be encouraged that there are still lots of folks who see fatherhood- and motherhood as unique and wonderful. Your role as dad is critical and truly irreplaceable. Hug your kids and fight the looniness in part by being a wonderful Father.
” As a father, I object to being marginalized or made irrelevant by those that claim that 2 (or more) women parenting are equivalent to traditional mother-father parenting (this holds for mothers also when discussing 2 men as parents). “2 women = mom and dad” makes me worthless and I refuse to accept that.”
Well, I’m a single father, and I don’t think me raising my kids full time by myself for the most part makes mothers “irrelevant”, that’s just what happened to be best for my family. Two women raising a child doesn’t take away from your family, or from fatherhood in general. Actually, I think the thousands of men who walk away from their children all together or act like a child support check is equivalent to fatherhood does far, far more damage to the concept of fatherhood than lesbians raising a kid could ever do.
“Is this part of the “slippery slope” society claims will never actually lead to further immorality?” – what immorality?
Well said Jack.
jim, how can someone else’s relationship lead to you “being marginalized or made irrelevant”?
This is a good example of how our lack of respect for the rights and dignity of unborn children has blinded us to the needs of our already-born children.
You decide:
The highest divorce rate is among same sex marriages: ie, lesbians with lesbians and homosexuals with homosexuals.
Initially, at the start of this pretend marriage craze, it was the opposite. The divorce rate for same-sex pretend marriage was much lower than for the general population (of married people-heterosexual). Before wealthy lobbyist saw to it that laws were passed to inconvenience those speaking out (both on religious & non religious grounds) against pretend marriages, these same sex marriages had a higher rate of staying together because they saw themselves as “it’s us against the world.”
Now that has changed. Since then, their divorce rate has steadily increased, and the amount of time they stay together is declining whether they have children or not. In addition, after their initial split from their partner, they jump to another partner more often than before all this legalization of pretend marriages and their unhappy children.
Now that a third partner has entered the fray it’s like bringing in your stuffed, pet giraffe to save your marriage. I think the rate of divorce, first low then high will follow the same pattern between same-sex pretend marriages.
For those people without common sense, anything goes, why not marry a giraffe. /……what the heck…………. (heh)
That is going to be one heck of a custody battle, should these folks not all manage to get along together.
Reality,
This isn’t about only me, I’m talking about big picture, macro level stuff. I’d like to get beyond what Thomas Sowell calls “Stage 1 thinking” and look at the consequences lurking beyond the emotional appeal.
Are men and women interchangeable? Do fathers bring anything unique and special to the lives of their children? Do mothers?
If you think that 2 women = mother and father, you are making fathers irrelevant. If you think that a woman can provide everything that I can in an identical way, you are making me and all fathers irrelevant. In other words, why have fathers if 2 women can do exactly the same job? (And, of course, conversely, mothers.)
Jack, everyone realizes that marriage is not always sustainable. Mine was close to failing. If you are a single dad now because the mother of your children died, I offer you my most sincere and deepest condolences. If you are divorced, your kids still have a mother, and even though you are raising them separately, your family didn’t start that way. I don’t interpret your statement to mean that your current situation is ideal for you or your children or that you wouldn’t want things to be different if they could possibly be.
I stole the questions above from 2 Dennis Prager columns. He explains the whole thing much better than I can. I offer you these 2 links.
http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=d9fb0980-9c95-48e8-a493-86b965c7d5ee&url=same-sex_marriage_and_the_insignificance_of_men_and_women
http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=4bd9a8e1-d2e3-4e27-8ff9-13225099eea5&url=why_a_good_person_can_vote_against_samesex_marriage
No, I don’t. I also think it’s a significant mistake for pro life leaders to focus on superflous issues like what choices LGBT individuals make in their own lives. I understand Christian objections to LGBT adoption and marriage, but I believe that those belong to specifically religious discussions and movements. The pro-life movement is, and should, be based on the premise that the unborn child is a person with the basic right to exist and thrive. That has *nothing* to do with homosexuality, and connecting the two issues is alienating to allies who are LGBT themselves or who are LGBT allies. I believe that associating the non-violent choice of gay adoption and parenting with the violent choice of abortion is intolerant and unkind. If prolifers want our movement to survive, we must embrace the rights of *everyone*, gay, straight, born and unborn.
I like what that person said. ^
Just in case some of you aren’t familiar with him yet, this is Robert Oscar Lopez, a man raised by two lesbians. He may have a different perspective to offer on LGBT issues (and pro-life issues) than what you’re used to hearing.
“Just in case some of you aren’t familiar with him yet, this is Robert Oscar Lopez, a man raised by two lesbians. He may have a different perspective to offer on LGBT issues (and pro-life issues) than what you’re used to hearing.”
I have about as much respect for this dude as I do Dan Savage. Which is to say, basically none.
That’s your prerogative, Jack. But that doesn’t mean his opinion and experiences aren’t valid, and just because he doesn’t hold your views doesn’t mean he is as hateful as Dan Savage.
Once again…this has what to do with abortion?
A slippery slope indeed…a man going to court to fight to be part of his daughters life..shocking!
I am constantly amazed and perplexed by the fascination, almost obsession a lot of pro life people have with the private lives of LGBT people.
I honestly sometimes wonder if a lot of people are in this movement, not to save the lives of babies, but to further a social agenda.
Abortion has NOTHING to do with gay marriage / gay adoption / gay marches / gay pop music /gay colour schemes / gay cars and/or gay men married with children and living a lie slowly dying inside because they cant accept that God made them perfect.
Abortion Kills Babies. Focus People!!!
“Abortion Kills Babies. Focus People!!!”
THIS.
Traditional marriages nurture children best. We’re not ashamed to say so.
Hans Johnson says:
“Traditional marriages nurture children best.”
I agree 100% with that statement. But it doesnt follow that anything other than whats best should be against the law.
And my original point is, I really think the pro life figure-heads like Jill Stanek have a RESPONSIBILITY to seperate the issues of abortion and LGBT rights.
Soooo many people think pro-lifers are obsessed with gays, and so many people dont even give the movement a second glance because they associate it with fundamental christianity.
We simply MUST separate these issues, for the sake of the movement and for the sake of the unborn.
Lesbians can raise a child as long as one of them does not ‘pretend’ to be a father.
There is no such thing as a three parent birth certificate regardless of what they may print.
So many serious comments for me to love here, especially those pointing out that our pro-life movement would do well to focus FAR less (if at all) on LGBT issues and concentrate on the killing of the unborn. Also not crazy about people insisting that family configurations not comprised of the “perfect” mix are worthless.
But my favourite comment is still this:
“Dude’s fakin’ gay to get booty.”
LOL! Thanks, xalisae!
“There is no such thing as a three parent birth certificate regardless of what they may print.”
Sorry, that’s just demonstrably false. If a state recognizes three people on the birth certificate, then there is such a thing. Birth certificates are legal documents, not intrinsically unchangeable things. Whatever is legally recognized exists.
I didn’t say he was as hateful as Savage, Kel, and I don’t think he . And his personal experiences are just that, his personal experiences, don’t have an issue with those. I just think he’s a crappy writer, and a crappy pundit.
The states already print fake marriage licenses with two husbands too but that makes a state marriage license useless for tracing familial ancestry. The state can make whatever records they want for themselves but if you accept that as a ‘birth’ certificate then birth certificates are no longer valid for researching geneology.
Jaiya Ma is raising Eamon with 2 boyfriend. Ian is the bio dad but Jon does most of the child care.
Ian and Jon aren’t really “brother husbands” as they wouldn’t be together except for Jaiya. Suppose Jaiya dies. Who would get custody of little Eamon?
“The states already print fake marriage licenses with two husbands too but that makes a state marriage license useless for tracing familial ancestry. The state can make whatever records they want for themselves but if you accept that as a ‘birth’ certificate then birth certificates are no longer valid for researching geneology. ”
Do you think that the legal marriages of infertile couples are also invalid? How about the marriages of “mixed” families, where the children living with the couple are not biologically related to one of them? How about the birth certificates of adopted children, which are a lot of times changed to reflect the adoptive parents rather than the birth parents?
Legal birth certificates are a different thing than the actual biological origins of someone. Someone may have a birth certificate with just the biological mother on it, but it doesn’t mean that there is no biological father, it’s just that he isn’t known or the mother didn’t name him for whatever reasons. It means that there is no legal father, unless his paternity is declared in other ways. Sometimes men, especially married men, are on the birth certificate when they have no biological relationship to the child.
Tl:dr, birth certificates (and marriage certificates) are legal documents and are changed and defined by the state, and don’t always reflect biology. It’s kinda ridiculous to act like a particular form of birth certificate doesn’t exist, because you don’t agree with the family structure.
And about “fake” marriage certificates… It’s certainly valid to state that in the eyes of so-and-so church, some marriages are invalid. But the certificates exist and are legally valid in the states they are issued, it’s weird to pretend they don’t exist.
“Do you think that the legal marriages of infertile couples are also invalid?”
No, but if they adopt kids there names should NOT be on the ‘birth’ certificate.
So let me get this straight. Babies are being legally killed every day, but we’re sitting here discussing how birth certificates are filled out? Oh yeah, we’ve got a real grip on our priorities around here.
For the record, I intended to only give this “story” a facetious one-liner because I felt that was all that it deserved. As JDC pointed out so deftly…PRIORITIES, MAN.
I am not prioritizing birth the protocol for filling out birth birth certificates over abortion. I am pointing out that ‘birth’ certificates are supposed to list the names of the biological father and mother. Acknowledge it and move on.
LGBT people have the same government protected ‘rights’ as heterosexual people. The right to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It doesn’t mean the government should put LGBT couples names together on ‘birth’ certificate because of some PC sense of ‘fairness’. It is absurd.
“Soooo many people think pro-lifers are obsessed with gays, and so many people dont even give the movement a second glance because they associate it with fundamental christianity. We simply MUST separate these issues, for the sake of the movement and for the sake of the unborn. ”
ed, those ‘Soooomany people’ are PLINO’s (Pro Life IN Name Only). They can kiss my @33
The deterioration of the traditional of the traditional family and diminishing of the importance of the roles of a father and a mother play has a lot more effect on society and their acceptance of other non-traditional things like abortion.
Lol, abortion is as traditional and long-lasting as murder, rape, and every other thing that has been around since the beginning of the human race. Abortion was used with infanticide for basically the same reasons that it is used today thousands of years ago in different cultures. It just isn’t correct to act like it’s a new thing, and to act like it wouldn’t exist if we could just suppress homosexuality enough.
Nobody is suggesting that suppressing homosexuality will end abortion Jack. Quit with the straw men. At the risk of repeating myself…what I said is: “The deterioration of the traditional family and diminishing of the importance of the complimentary roles of a father and a mother has a profoundly negative effect on the value our culture places on children (the product of the man/woman union).
And though I never denied abortion occurred in the past I do not believe it was ever committed on such large percentages of mothers as the 40% that are subjected to it today. And I never looked upon abortion or rape or murder as’ traditions’.
“Sometimes men, especially married men, are on the birth certificate when they have no biological relationship to the child.”
Jack, I had never heard of that. Is this when women commit adultery and get pregnant from their infidelity and then pretend it is their husbands child?
truthseeker says:
February 16, 2013 at 1:33 am
“Sometimes men, especially married men, are on the birth certificate when they have no biological relationship to the child.”Jack, I had never heard of that. Is this when women commit adultery and get pregnant from their infidelity and then pretend it is their husbands child?
(Denise) All throughout history and probably throughout pre-history, motherhood and fatherhood have been profoundly different. Motherhood is a biologically based connection. Fatherhood is largely a social connection. “Dad” is the man married to the mother. The biological father may be a rapist or the mother’s adulterous boyfriend. Marriage has protected children by ensuring social fathers.
Denise, fatherhood is every bit as biological as motherhood. 50% of the childs genetics come from the father. I didn’t become a father when I got married I became a father when a got a girl pregnant.
Denise, how would that work? When women divorce and remarry they can change the father on the birth certificate?
ed, those ‘Soooomany people’ are PLINO’s (Pro Life IN Name Only). They can kiss my @33
lol, counterproductive.
I suppose women who are raped while married and uncertain of the paternal father of her child should be compelled to submit the child to a DNA test to make certain her husband is the father? Or perhaps since sometimes a woman cheats on her husband or is in an open marriage and there’s no real way to tell just by looking at any given mother and child, we should start compulsory genetic testing of ALL newborns, even if the parents prefer not to do so. Ya know. Just so ts feels better.
What is counterproductive is counting on people who hold their interests LGBT issues higher than their interest in saving the lives of unborn children. They need to man up or woman up and put it aside themselves or they are not pro-life they are pro-something-else.
x, ‘birth’ certificates are not intended to to specify legal guardianship or living arrangements. The state has other documents for that. If they are unsure of who the father is then the ‘birth’ certificate should reflect that.
” Jack, I had never heard of that. Is this when women commit adultery and get pregnant from their infidelity and then pretend it is their husbands child?”
Well, fatherhood is legally presumed to be the husband’s in a marriage, it’s actually quite difficult to change. Whether it’s infidelity, rape, a threesome, an open marriage, or whatever, there isn’t any requirement that the legal father be the biological father, it presumed to be the husband no matter what the wife got up to in the meantime. Studies put the rate of men raising kids unaware that they aren’t biologically theirs at anywhere from 5 to 20 percent.
I don’t even think paternity fraud is a prosecutable crime in a lot of places. I could be wrong though.
“Denise, fatherhood is every bit as biological as motherhood. 50% of the childs genetics come from the father. I didn’t become a father when I got married I became a father when a got a girl pregnant.”
No one is saying that’s not true, but Denise is right about how fatherhood was treated legally and socially before the era of paternity tests. Women are viewed to be the mothers of their children for obvious reasons, the man she was married to/married her when she got impregnated was presumed to be the father legally. That’s why “virginity” of females and controlling sexuality became so important in older ages, especially in the noble class, because most structures were patriarchal in nature and there was no way to ensure that the patriarch’s genes were being passed down. (Why they didn’t just have a matriarchal system if they were so worried about it, I don’t understand).
Anyway, it’s all a digression anyway. If you want to have the opinion that the only birth certificates issued have proven biological parents, that’s a different opinion than pretending that certain birth certificates don’t exist because you don’t like them. I don’t like veal but I don’t pretend it doesn’t exist.
“x, ‘birth’ certificates are not intended to to specify legal guardianship or living arrangements. The state has other documents for that. If they are unsure of who the father is then the ‘birth’ certificate should reflect that.”
The birth certificate is used as a determination of legal paternity. That’s one of the intents of the document, to designate the legal father (which is not necessarily the biological father). If you think that birth certificates should be used to only designate biological parents, and there should be no presumption of paternity until it’s proved to be biological, then that’s an opinion that has a lot of good points to it.
That is all news to me Jack. Marriage determines paternity? Birth Certificates being used for denoting anything other than the father son who conceived the child? Where did you get such strange ideas? You sound more like you are talking “adoption” certificates and not ‘birth’ certificates.
“That is all news to me Jack. Marriage determines paternity? Birth Certificates being used for denoting anything other than the father son who conceived the child? Where did you get such strange ideas? You sound more like you are talking “adoption” certificates and not ‘birth’ certificates.”
It’s from US law, in most states. That’s really, literally the law in a lot of states. A child of a marriage is assumed the husband’s, paternity is determined legally by marriage in that case. One aspect of birth certificates is used to prove legal paternity. Biology isn’t the most important thing according to law when it comes to fathers, though the courts are starting to catch up with the technology with some of their decisions lately. I would agree that our paternity laws need an overhaul, but that’s the legal reality right now.
truthseeker says:
February 16, 2013 at 11:00 am
Denise, fatherhood is every bit as biological as motherhood. 50% of the childs genetics come from the father. I didn’t become a father when I got married I became a father when a got a girl pregnant.
(Denise) A father-to-be doesn’t puke in the morning, get constipation, and a multitude of aches and pains. A father-to-be doesn’t have his body get bigger and bigger and bigger. A father doesn’t suffer hours and hours of labor pains.
Since the mother has the baby, she can be certain of her biological relationship with that baby. If she is married, the husband is the social father of that baby. He is in a relationship of “Dad” with the child regardless of whether he contributed anything genetically or not.
OTOH, at least historically, he may have no ongoing relationship with his actual biological children. For example, Mrs. A has a baby. Mr. A is handed the baby. Socially that is his child even if the milkman or mailman made the genetic contribution.
His genetic child could be on the other side of town, born to an unmarried “trollop,” and shuffling from one impoverished and distracted caregiver to another. He supports, gives his surname to, and raises the child whose genes were contributed by another man. Enjoying the privileges of being born “legitimate” and in a stable marriage, this child is apt to grown into a productive adult. Indeed, Mr. A’s social child may end up prosecuting or treating his unknown, “illegitimate” genetic child. The wife’s child is the winner regardless of genetic heritage. The trollop’s child is the loser regardless of genetic heritage.
Denise, I understand and agree with you that children in unmarried homes are at sociological disadvantage. Studies also show that children from homes of non-biological parents are at a sociological disadvantage. But still we would all agree that every born child is at a great sociological advantage when compared with the thousands of children who get killed every day in the most barbaric ways imaginable through abortion. Is society now at the point where we have been able to convince ourselves we are doing culture a favor by committing abortion on children. And the reason we give is cause the world is such a sick place that we don’t want the baby exposed to it. Pro-life means believing not just that you wouldn’t kill your own children, but that you believe every life deserves a chance.