Pro-life blog buzz 5-14-13
by Kelli
We welcome your suggestions for additions to our Top Blogs (see tab on right side of home page)! Email Susie@jillstanek.com.
- At Live Action News, Kristen Hatten questions whether people will “turn off the TV and think, ‘Well, that Gosnell guy was doing abortions the wrong way, but he’s been caught. The system works, and most abortions aren’t like that anyway.’ Are they going to snuggle down in their beds feeling like the one bad guy has been caught, and remain pro-choice?”
- Big Blue Wave is furious at the pro-choice side’s reaction to the guilty verdict – which is, naturally, to blame pro-lifers for Gosnell’s existence.
Today, some Kermit Gosnell verdict reactions:
- Former abortion worker Abby Johnson (pictured left) urges compassion, saying of Gosnell, “That was me”:
It was Christ who changed me. It was the merciful and compassionate words of His people. It was no condemnation. It was not prayers that I would burn in hell. It was not those who yelled and called me names. It was the words of people… who prayed that I would, one day, walk out of that clinic….Don’t we want that for every abortion clinic worker and abortion provider? Don’t we want that for Kermit Gosnell?
- At Coming Home, Dr. Gerard Nadal says that though Gosnell was found guilty, abortion remains an embedded part of American society:
If the murder of these babies is indeed regarded as first degree murder because of their location, then their abortions would have been no less an act of murder five minutes earlier when inside their mothers.If Gosnell is put to death by the state it will not be for taking these babies’ lives at the developmental stages when they were killed. No, Gosnell will be put to death for not following medical protocol as dictated by law, namely failing to call 911 and to keep the baby alive because it couldn’t be murdered in a place prescribed by law.
- Down on the Pharm says the trial is “hugely significant,” mainly “for having been ignored by the media, most of which only began covering the issue when forced to by its repetition in the social media.”
- Fr. Frank Pavone of Priests for Life says abortionists seem to be confused on the issue of rights, not unlike President Obama:
The guilty verdict on charges of killing babies following abortion shows that the law recognizes a point at which the “right to choose” must yield to the right to life, and also shows that abortionists don’t know where that point is. Such laws must be strengthened in every state. - AUL’s Charmaine Yoest appeared on Fox News’ Special Report following the Gosnell guilty verdict on Monday:
[Photo via catholicmoxie.wordpress.com]
May.14, 2013 4:30 pm |
Blogs |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Gosnell just received life in prison without parole. Justice is served.
<i>Gosnell just received life in prison without parole. Justice is served.</i>
Not yet. The department that was supposed to supervise health clinics needs to be tried as well. The supervisors and officials who let it go on year after year with never an inspection need to be identified and charged. When they lose their jobs, pensions, and any state issued licenses, then justice will be done.
‘Well, that Gosnell guy was doing abortions the wrong way, but he’s been caught. The system works, and most abortions aren’t like that anyway.’ Are they going to snuggle down in their beds feeling like the one bad guy has been caught, and remain pro-choice?” – yep.
“Dr. Gerard Nadal says that though Gosnell was found guilty, abortion remains an embedded part of American society:” – this too.
“abortionists (like President Obama)” – really? When was that? How long for?
“abortionists (like President Obama)” – really? When was that? How long for?
I suppose I’ll need to reword that now, for the eternally dense folks on the site.
There. Fixed, just for you, reality. *smooches*
‘Well, that Gosnell guy was doing abortions the wrong way, but he’s been caught. The system works, and most abortions aren’t like that anyway.’ Are they going to snuggle down in their beds feeling like the one bad guy has been caught, and remain pro-choice?” – yep.
I actually agree with you. It took a long time for Wilberforce to get through to his society on the issue of the slave trade, and then slavery itself. Most people, unless faced with the truth about human atrocity, just go on their merry way, living their lives without thought to those outside themselves.
“*smooches” – careful, you never know what you might catch from the nasty, sinful, immoral, satan-filled, atheist pro-choicer :-)
“I actually agree with you.” – although we come at it from completely different perspectives of course.
careful, you never know what you might catch from the nasty, sinful, immoral, satan-filled, atheist pro-choicer
Reality, I can be nasty, sinful, and immoral, too. The difference is that I’ve chosen to repent of my sin and allow Christ to change my heart and mind. (1 Cor. 6:11 – “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”) He is calling you, too, or you wouldn’t be on this site. As sinful as we are, He loves us.
“I actually agree with you.” – although we come at it from completely different perspectives of course.
Yeah, probably so.
“Reality, I can be nasty, sinful, and immoral, too.” – nooooo…I refuse to believe it!
“He is calling you, too, or you wouldn’t be on this site.” – ah, the convenience principle strikes again. If he is calling me to be on this site, how do you know it isn’t to advance the pro-choice position?
“Yeah, probably so.” – broadly speaking, anti-choicers attempt to equate slavery with the termination of unwanted pregnancies. Pro-choicers equate slavery with the attempts to control women and their reproductive choices. Yes?
I haven’t seen any advancement in the pro-choice position: the same old straw men, moving goal posts, rabbits running down holes in the warren, hiding heads in the sand, denial of basic human and mammalian biology, denial of basic scientific facts, and some very lame attempts at logic that fail miserabley. Nope, no advancement in your position at all. So, I think Screwtape scores a big FAIL if his goal is to deaden more consciences to embrace feticide and infanticide. In fact, during the last two months I have seen more of my formerly pro-choice friends soften their views and begin to question the brutality of abortion itself: a WIN for all children in and out of the womb. People that I thought would never budge, they’re budging and they’re asking themselves, why didn’t I realize how brutal this was? Trolls can keep trollin but real people are looking inward and asking questions.
“I haven’t seen any advancement in the pro-choice position” – well what a surprise!
My goal is to ‘undeaden’ more consciences so people will embrace womens’ freedom and reproductive choices.
Maybe I’m being tasked with one of the less easy tests he puts people through?
I love what Abby Johnson has to say. Hate and vengefulness toward Kermit Gosnell, in my opinion, is not pro-life and does not do the pro-life movement any good, just harm.
Jesus says that Christians who only love and pray for those who love them and treat them well do no different than anyone else. We are to love and pray for our enemies, including those who kill our children and sometimes their mothers.
It was difficult for me, when leading a prayer meeting on 9/11, to lead in prayer for Osama Bin Laden and the terrorists, but I did it because it was the right thing to do.
Praying for Kermit Gosnell and all abortionists is the right thing to do.
For those who are interested, pro-life leader Bryan Kemper has just started a FB page for that very purpose:
https://www.facebook.com/prayforgosnell
Gosnell might have been shut down before doing so much harm if the state and local agencies had just done their jobs. They need to be prosecuted.
“If he is calling me to be on this site, how do you know it isn’t to advance the pro-choice position?”
Well if that’s why you’re here, I’m afraid you’re not doing a very good job of it.
Hard to say Kel, that’s all a bit subjective really. I may be doing ok at damage limitation in regard to the undecided who come here though, who knows. It’s also why I asked “Maybe I’m being tasked with one of the less easy tests he puts people through?”
Ninek,
I too have seen a lot of softening of hearts in the last few months, although I’ve also been pregnant (along with no less than 4 other girls at my workplace!) and talking a lot about what sort of development is going on at any given time. When people hear things like, “the baby is 8 weeks now and has fingers and toes developing, and he or she has a liver, a pancreas, an appendix, a developing brain, and a heartbeat,” they tend to realize how much happens quickly and early on, and they start to realize how completely the abortion industry lies about the development of a human child.
Then, I mention Kermit Gosnell and why it is sick what he did regardless of the baby’s location and it’s amazing how many people at my workplace are reconsidering their beliefs. Especially those who are actually experiencing pregnancy.
Of course, pregnancy and childbirth is what got me into pro-life advocacy, so I can certainly relate to that. I’m grateful for it!
“I may be doing ok at damage limitation in regard to the undecided who come here though, who knows.”
Honestly, you don’t usually put forth any strong arguments for your position here, reality. What you do amounts more to trolling and leveling snarky insults. If you think God calls people to level snarky insults at those who claim to follow Him, then I guess that’s on you.
My thinking would be that if you want to be used by God to do good, then salvation would be your first call, reality.
@ Ninek…I’ve been talking more about abortion to some of my post abortive friends and they too are softening! I exposed Gosnells pictures of the dead babies and they shudder that they never knew. I include myself when talking to them about my chemical abortions through depo so just because I’ve never been on that abortion table I am just as guilty of sin. I am winning them over. Many say “Id never abort again .” Also dishing out breast cancer info. They are receptive !
A few of my comments are quite short, usually early in a thread. These are generally in response to similarly short comments, ones which I find appallingly erroneous or bigoted. They are not intended to be provocative, they are responses to the provocative comments of others.
Most of my comments are longer and contain my position on the topic under discussion and the reasons for that position. Some contain information, explanations or links.
We regularly see quite feisty and vehement ‘discussions’ between those who oppose abortion when other subjects are being discussed.
The manner in which I comment on the topic of abortion bears little difference to how many others here comment when they are disagreeing on topics such as politics, economics or sex and sexuality.
Disagreeing with the majority is not tantamount to trolling.
You obviously haven’t undertaken a ‘snark’ audit :-)
“My thinking would be that if you want to be used by God to do good” – I’m atheist, I just thought my earlier question about being tested might hold some meaning for those who aren’t. I was genuinely interested to see if someone had thoughts on it.
hippie, I hope you feel the same way if the agencies in Texas failed to do their job concerning West, Texas. Or, is it just abortion clinics you are concerned about and not companies who may be negligent? By the way, “doc in the box” medical facilities are going to have to start being regulated as stringent as women’s clinics in certain states. That will mean a few may go out of business if they can’t afford to be brought up to the same standards. That’s a good thing really.
“My thinking would be that if you want to be used by God to do good” – I’m atheist, I just thought my earlier question about being tested might hold some meaning for those who aren’t. I was genuinely interested to see if someone had thoughts on it.”
And you got my thoughts on it.
“You obviously haven’t undertaken a ‘snark’ audit :-)”
Granted, I don’t have time to audit your snark, but nearly every comment I read from you is similar to what you did earlier in this thread. Someone makes a comment and you say (without presenting evidence to the contrary), “Not true” or “Nope” or other variances.
Honestly, I think you’re delusional if you believe you are helping fence sitters to decide anything. Other PC commenters here typically have more detailed comments.
As I said, I don’t really stalk your comments, so I could be wrong. However, your tendency to come here and provoke actually makes me laugh sometimes, because comments like “not true” with no other details or even sources to back up your claims isn’t a discussion of any value whatsoever. I actually find it humorous.
Sorry to get discussion off track on this thread. I’m done now! :D
Yes, you gave your thoughts on my question but you didn’t answer it.
What, I say I agree with comments made by your side and you consider that snark? As I have already said, my short responses are due to finding short, erroneous comments provocative. This then leads to deeper discussion.
“Honestly, I think you’re delusional if you believe you are helping fence sitters to decide anything. Other PC commenters here typically have more detailed comments” – it goes without saying that you are entirely entitled to your opinion. I’m quite prepared to take my chances.
“because comments like “not true” with no other details or even sources to back up your claims isn’t a discussion of any value whatsoever.” – they match the level of details and sources contained in the comments I am responding to and then tend to lead to those details and sources then being provided by that original commentor or others of the same opinion.
A bit of humor is healthy. I find a lot here too :-)
My prediction: Damage control, mostly courtesy of the mainstream media, then back to business as usual. The PBA battle did little. “Lime 5” did little. Just as the Edelin scandal did little.
“they match the level of details and sources contained in the comments I am responding to and then tend to lead to those details and sources then being provided by that original commentor or others of the same opinion.”
Oh, I see. So you’re posting snark *because* you are merely ferreting out the sources of the original commenters? Mmhmm.
And when they post sources you don’t approve of – without even reading the content, I’d bet – I know exactly what your reaction is. And then you don’t post any of your own.
This is why I (and many others) think of you as more of a troll than as a heroic messenger of all things pro-choice.
“So you’re posting snark” – I’ve already explained it isn’t ‘snark’. It would be more accurate to label the types of comments I am responding to as ‘snark’.
“And when they post sources you don’t approve of – without even reading the content, I’d bet –” – oh but I do, that’s why I make commentys on both the sources and their content.
“I know exactly what your reaction is.” – evidently not.
“And then you don’t post any of your own.” – indeed I do.
“This is why I (and many others) think of you as more of a troll” – nah, it’s because some think that attacking the messenger first will devalue the message. As I stated previously, disagreeing with the majority is not tantamount to trolling.
I’d like to think that you took a reasonable look at my commenting history in order to make the claims you have Kel.
If you have then you would also be aware that I do provide quotes and references. And unlike those who predominantly furnish links to various ‘family’ organisations, faith-based websites, other anti-choice websites and even their own; I make every endevour to provide links which are not aligned with pro-choice, atheist etc. etc websites. Although sometimes even the links provided to me provide information which support my position!
If my intent was to simply be a troll then I would blurt a comment on every article. You can check if you feel the need but I’d guess I comment on about a quarter of the articles posted, a third at the most.
And if my focus was ‘snark’ then it would be easy to respond to comments such as “when will the pro-aborts be selling the “I am Kermit Gosnell’ tee-shirts?” (which is all that comment contained) with something like “once the demand for the ‘I am Scott Roeder’ tee-shirts finally abates”. I didn’t.
Ok, this is really it. Done after I respond. (Where is Paladin?!?!)
“I’d like to think that you took a reasonable look at my commenting history in order to make the claims you have Kel.”
Well, recently I have not had much time for comments. However, in the four years I have worked for Jill, yes, I’ve read many of your comments, and many – MANY – of them, I’ve observed, are as I mentioned.
“If you have then you would also be aware that I do provide quotes and references.”
As often as you respond with retorts like “nonsense!” to some lengthy fact-based posts? Nonsense. ;)
“And unlike those who predominantly furnish links to various ‘family’ organisations, faith-based websites, other anti-choice websites”
It sounds to me like you’re insinuating that the religious and the pro-life are never factual in their research.
“I make every endevour to provide links which are not aligned with pro-choice, atheist etc. etc websites.”
And if there are pro-choice or atheist sources that agree with the pro-life/religious position? Do you consider those? I’ve seen commenters besides just yourself engage in smears against people who are not allied with the pro-life religious simply because a position they take happens to agree with the pro-life religious.
I hope that in the future, you will actually engage in some sort meaningful dialogue here. Otherwise, you’re only preaching to the pro-choice choir and as I said before, you won’t be convincing any fence-sitters, if that’s your goal.
I really do have to go now. It’s past my bedtime. :)
“As often as you respond with retorts like “nonsense!” to some lengthy fact-based posts? Nonsense.” – if they were fact-based I would have no cause to say ‘nonsense’. ;-)
“It sounds to me like you’re insinuating that the religious and the pro-life are never factual in their research” – no, but most of the links to the types of sites I mentioned lead to information which is doctrine based rather than unbiased information.
“And if there are pro-choice or atheist sources that agree with the pro-life/religious position? Do you consider those?” - I do Kel. But I don’t usually visit pro-choice sites, that mainly occurs when someone here links to one. And I can’t recall seeing anything on any of the few atheist sites I sporadically visit which supports the ‘pro-life/religious’ position.
“I hope that in the future, you will actually engage in some sort meaningful dialogue here.” – I think I generally respond in kind.
“Otherwise, you’re only preaching to the pro-choice choir and as I said before, you won’t be convincing any fence-sitters, if that’s your goal.” – we can agree to disagree on that one.
Sleep soundly, I shan’t offer you a *smooch* in return to your earlier gift, it may be inappropriate at this juncture :-)
Heather,
Please let them know if/when they are hurting that there is hope and healing for them. I would love to be there for them.
You know where to find me!! :)
Victor,
Friend me on facebook!!
Reality,
I am so glad you are here!!!
As much as you like to think that you are doing a lot for the proabortion side by commenting here I think you are helping prolifers by sticking around!!
Keep up the good work!
And please provide some snarky comment!!!
Do not disappoint me.
Hi Kel!!
On Kermit Gosnell’s fate: Do I want him to burn in hell? Of course not. I want him to repent and receive the grace of God just as I have.
Sinners are saved by the grace and power of God. Period.
If we are called of God, we will repent out of the knowledge of God’s goodness and mercy. We all deserve hell. We will all face a reckoning. But as Clint Eastwood says: “Deserves got nothing to do with it.”
“Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.” Romans 9:18
God pours out His grace on those whom He chooses just as He condemns those whom He chooses.
“What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?” Romans 9:22
We are never as patient as God with sin. We never see God as patient with others’ sin as with our own. But that does not mean He does not condemn these “vessels of wrath” in the end. We simply can’t see what will happen with abortionists in the end. Only God can see it. But it does not mean we should not condemn their sin.
In fact, salvation is meaningless if there is no knowledge that we as sinners need to be saved from the wrath of God:
“And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory” Romans 9:23
So it’s right and good to preach that sinners remain under the wrath of God unless they repent. It’s a perversion of the Gospel to preach that only goodness and kindness can “soften” them.
That being said Abby Johnson has a deficient idea about salvation. People are not saved because they become “softened” by a message that includes no condemnation; neither are they saved because Christians persuade them through displaying only kindness and goodness.
Abby Johnson likes to decry pro-lifers who were supposedly praying for her to die and go to hell. Who are these people I wonder? And why is she so quick to condemn these nameless people? Why do people insist on setting up Abby as a judge of the pro-life movement? There is an irony here that she apparently does not see.
If Kermit Gosnell goes to heaven or hell, it is due to God’s justice, not ours. I like Abby’s story, but I wish people would stop propping her up as a pro-life leader because she’s too deficient in her ideas and knowledge as Christian to be a spokesman on every pro-life issue.
Second, this story is not going to be marginalized because Gosnell is not that much different from hundreds of abortionists throughout the country. He’s just the tip of the iceberg. If we do our job, the story won’t be marginalized. It’s a great opportunity to expose the hypocrisy of the pro-aborts.
Here’s a NOW article from 2002 defending James Pendergraft — who is an abortionist in Orlando that does the same procedure as Gosnell — only his mills let the babies drown in a toilet ratehr than snipping their necks
http://www.now.org/nnt/spring-2002/pendergraft.html
Note that in 2002, we were called “clinic terrorists” because we worked to expose child killers like Pendergraft. When Pendergraft and two other abortion mill owners sued Florida pro-lifers, Pendergraft himself ended up going to jail for perjury and extortion, he committed by lying under oath and threatening people.
In 2013, NARAL is calling abortionists like Gosnell — “dangerous, back-alley predators.”
So which is it? What has changed in 11 years?
They are seriously worried about the Gosnell verdict. But not only that, although they defended Pendergraft when he went to prison for extortion, they are willing to throw him under the bus.
http://point4counterpoint.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/tell-your-lawmakers-that-the-franks-bill-is-bad-for-d-c-women/
“As we await the verdict in the trial of Kermit Gosnell, Rep. Trent Franks and his colleagues in the House are quietly pushing a bill that could ban abortion after 20 weeks for women in Washington, D.C. – even if the pregnancy puts a woman’s health or ability to have children in the future at risk.
“It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to connect the dots. A bill like this will block women in desperate circumstances from getting abortion care they need and could force women to seek help from dangerous, back-alley predators like Gosnell.”
So say the pro-aborts. Now it would be much more accurate to say that the abortion industry is full of dangerous predators like some of the late term abortionists we have had right here in Orlando, Florida, Pendergraft, Whitney, Perper, Whaley, etc., etc.
I refuse to read or engage Reality. Waste of time. He’s not interested, really. He just doesn’t have enough to do with his day.
He is one of the reasons why Gosnell was allowed to operate for so long.
“I am so glad you are here!!!” – the feeling is mutual Carla.
“As much as you like to think that you are doing a lot for the proabortion side by commenting here I think you are helping prolifers by sticking around!!” – I’m quite happy for you to keep thinking that.
“Keep up the good work!” – I shall, you too.
“And please provide some snarky comment!!!” – but Kel doesn’t want me to!
“Do not disappoint me.” – I probably will, I’ve got a long way to go to catch up with some of the stuff you come out with.
Oh dear, and I failed to keep up on the exclamation mark front. ;-)
Jay Rogers, I agree with you. I like Abby’s story as well but too much of what she has said (and the way she is constantly snarking at other pro-lifers on facebook or writing articles wagging her finger at everyone) concerns me. She is only one soldier in the pro-life army. She should not be made a General. Let her have her approach. Let her work with abortionists leaving the killing industry.
Sydney M, “Welcome to the pro-life ministry!” That’s a phrase I use when people complain about divisions or criticize tactics in pro-life. I tend to like Abby a lot. She has a great testimony that people need to hear. But I wish she wouldn’t attack us. She’s particularly come after the pro-lifers in Orlando in her postings on several occasions. That bothers me because I know all these people and they have good hearts toward God. It’s good to discuss and point out errors in people’s thinking, but I don’t want to reciprocate by attacking Abby either. Everyone has their own opinion and we all know what they smell like. So it’s better to not put our noses where they don’t belong. :-)
Like some others have mentioned here, I have found some softening of hearts and opening of minds, just in the last couple of years or so that I have become well much more serious about pro-life ministry.
Yes I’ve been attacked and yes the lack of response can be frustrating.
But on FB alone a number of friends have been posting a lot more things about pro-life matters, including quite a few I’d not seen post about it before. Not all my doing to be sure but I know some of it is because they have said so. Also I have seen at least a few who were unsure or pro-life with exceptions become more fully pro-life.
Also since recently starting my PROLIFEeration blog at
( PROLIFEeration@blogspot.com ) I have had almost daily looks at the blog, sometimes several a day. Not a lot but it’s growing.
It is definitely worth it.
Carla, I’ll be glad to friend you on FB if you give me the info I need to do so. :)