Stanek Sunday funnies 6-23-13
Following are my top five favorite cartoons for the week that was. Don’t forget to vote for your fav in the poll at the bottom of the post.
We begin with two I certainly wouldn’t call “favorites” but am posting because they have to do with our topic and show how liberals are lamely trying to spin the House’s passage of a bill that would ban abortions past 20 weeks in the U.S. because babies feel pain by that time…
by Mike Luckovich at GoComics.com…
by Nick Anderson at About.com…
by pro-abortion Joel Pett at GoComics.com, a bit of blind irony…
by Glenn McCoy at Townhall.com (based on this comment by President Obama in Ireland)…
by Dana Summers at GoComics.com (regarding the First Family’s trip to Africa next week)…

I guess I’ll vote for #4, I found it somewhat funny.
The first two are why we need more people to see and know what a healthy 20 week old and an aborted 20 week old look like. Only by ignoring the real evidence can they keep fooling themselves that feticide and infanticide are “reproductive rights.”
It’s very interesting that the vast majority of Americans support banning abortions at 20 weeks or even some time earlier, yet the media treats it like an extremist position. It really shows how out of touch with normal people they are.
I always interested to see what Presidents have gone to sub-sahara Africa – interesting list. FDR was the first. Carter then went. Reagan skipped out and never went, but everyone since then has gone – both Bushes, Clinton had two separate trips, and this will be Obama’s second time. Good to see Presidents making that trip to countries that aren’t as rich and powerful.
It would help if we had more pro-life Republican women in Congress who could lead the charge on these things. The GOP suffers under the popular (and media-fed) impression that it’s pretty much a “white boys’ club”, while highly visible, influential women like Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin get written off as fluffheads. Until the Republicans start to recruit women and minority candidates without respect to districting, that image will persist.
Hi Anthony,
Any conservative woman is going to be crucified by the media. Conservative black people are no less reviled. Its not that these people aren’t out there and recruited by the Republicans. Its that the media wants them silenced.
“If towns remain divided, if Catholics have their schools and buildings, and Protestants have theirs, if we can’t see ourselves in one another, if fear or resentment are allowed to harden, that encourages division. It discourages cooperation.”
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see the President’s remarks as disparaging Catholic education. I think he was saying that a religiously segregated society is divisive. At most I think he was perhaps insensitive to the turbulent history of the people he was addressing. I don’t really understand the uproar here in the US.
Regarding the first two comics, ugh. I find it so offensive and sad that people are trying to spin the idea that if I can’t kill my 20+ week unborn child I’m somehow lessened as a woman. Ridiculous.
Hmmm, my last post must have included something that flagged it for moderation. Not sure what. Could a mod take a look?
“Hmmm, my last post must have included something that flagged it for moderation.”
Did it include any links?
I have been out of the media loop and had missed the Catholic schools comment. So essentially, when our religion wants to assist in the education of our children it creates strife and divisiveness? Is he even remotely aware of the history of the area? I mean, just a reeeaaallly basic understanding? I swear, this President doesn’t bother with briefings, from the things he says. It would be like me roaming the world without bothering to actually learn about the locations and histories of the specific subjects, and then broadcasting my opinions… except that he is supposed to be our political leader! forehead. wall.
I voted for #3 though because it reflects the feelings I-and probably most of you-have about discussing abortion with pretty much anyone far right. It’s mind-boggling.
It would help if we had more pro-life Republican women in Congress who could lead the charge on these things.
Rep. Marsha Blackburn did lead the charge on the 20-week ban. The reporters just closed their eyes.
JDC – we (American society) takes comfort in labeling people with extreme positions. Look at abortion, gun rights, healthcare, border security – almost any big issues for the past five years, and think of how each side has been drawn up. If people see the other side as reasonable, they become a threat – so we all take the other side of the issue and make them as crazy as possible.
Mary -
Conservative women will get crucified in the media if they do things that deserve scrutiny and crucifying. C Rice took some heat (but all public figures take some heat) – but nowhere near Bachmann, Palin, or Coulter – and I think you can see why when given the other three and some of their views/statements/handling of things.
Also, it is tough to say that somebody like Bachmann or Palin, who yell all day about how terrible the media is, is then going to be treated nicely by the media. Oddly enough, will both be in the media in the near future? If you can’t beat them, join them?
Gallop Poll results in recent months are consistent with previous years’ results.
58 percent of Americans believe abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.
59 percent of Independents and 43 percent of Democrats believe abortion should be illegal in all or most circumstances.
Americans ages 18-34 are more likely than any other age group to say abortion should be illegal under all circumstances.
Gallup notes that “One of the clearest messages from Gallup trends is that Americans oppose late-term abortion,” noting that a January 2013 poll shows “80 percent of Americans reject abortion in the 3rd trimester, and 64 percent in the second trimester.”
Only one quarter of Americans say they have been following the Gosnell case either very closely or somewhat closely.
46 percent of those following the case say the media has not devoted enough coverage to it.
The extremists on the pro-abort side do not seem to understand how Americans really think. Or (more likely) they imagine that by pretending that “all the kool kids luv abortion” they will persuade the herd to follow their shepherding.
LOL
Yeah right, EGV.
Palin’s DS son certainly deserved scrutiny and criticizing, didn’t he?
Speaking of deserving scrutiny and crucifying, as well as views/statements/handling of things:
http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/12/27/top-10-most-outrageous-quotes-from-nancy-pelosi/
Hear much media scrutiny about this?
Mary -
Everyone knows Pelosi is nuts – she’s made far more impact on the landscape of politics than Bachmann or Palin – but she’s still nuts.
Yes, a few folks went after Palin regarding her kid (and McCain was targeted by the right wing in a similar nasty fashion) – but the vast majority of the scrutiny they have received is justifiable.
Pelosi is nuts and has made far more impact on the political landscape than Bachmann or Palin. Well that explains a lot.
I rest my case.
“Everyone knows Pelosi is nuts”
Including the congrssional Democrats that chose to make her their leader?
Hi JDC,
LOL. Especially them.
I always knew there was a madness to her method!
Lrning,
Your first comment at 11:27 is up, though I didn’t agree with your first point. I’d like to see the president tell a madrassa it was being divisive.
Conservative women will get crucified in the media if they do things that deserve scrutiny and crucifying. C Rice took some heat…
Hello Ex:
And what makes you say Condi was (is) conservative? She is pro-abort, in other words she automatically earns a pass from the MSM…it changes the entire landscape on how a person is portrayed. Of course she is going to get a major pass! And, unlike the others who give their honest opinions, Condi would always look for the most politically correct way of saying things. The media’s favorite Republican black woman!
“Everyone knows Pelosi is nuts”
JDC already covered this, but I have to add that anyone who voted for any democrat essentially voted for Pelosi….she is the standard bearer of the party having served as the Speaker for four years and then re-appointed as the minority leader even after the spanking they got in 2010. It speaks volumes about the whole democrat party establishment…they are all a bunch of hard core leftists. How sad, the once great Democrat party which included many of us here at one time in their membership, has forsaken the principles which make a people and a country great for their insane quest to keep power no matter the cost.
Re cartoon number four it is clear who the enemy is. Obama has his sights set on the Catholic Church. In the cause closest to his heart, abortion, Obama has his signature “accomplishment” forcing Catholic employers and organizations to provide for contraceptive coverage in the medical insurance plans for employees. A little over a month from now the timeline expires when it becomes a matter of complying or not complying with the HHS mandate. Perhaps he will yet offer another pathetic attempt at a resolution that respects conscience and religious liberty rights, but even if he does our audacious young president will still come up far short. We don’t look for any meaningful accommodation as he has had his chance and has flubbed it already.
Next, he attacks Catholic education. The nerve of you Catholics teaching your Catholic faith! You should quit being so divisive! Lay down your objections to my agenda….I am the truth and the light!
Jerry – I actually completely disagree with you – in her position, her job is to take policies of the administration and make sure she has the votes. And when she says she has the votes, she backs it up – she’s sort of the anti-Boehner on that one.
Maybe I”ve missed it, but I’m not sure of many bills she’s written – she takes the work done by others and gets the troops together.
Hi Jerry,
There’s no way Obama will try to reach any kind of accomodation, pathetic or otherwise.
BTW, did you see that video of our fearless leader with Putin? Putin looked like he could hardly hold down his lunch. Obama sits there studying his notes while Putin speaks with intelligence and memory. Definitely no match for Putin. What an embarassment.
Something we should all find very reassuring.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/26/obama-tells-medvedev-hell-have-more-flexibility-after-election-during-missile/
Lrning,
It is incredibly insensitive in any case to imply that sending your child to a religious institute for education is somehow divisive. It’s just good parenting to want the most morally compatible education for your children. However, in the case of Northern Ireland, this is an exceedingly foolish and uninformed comment for the President to have made.
The education system in Northern Ireland is one of the few ways in which the Catholics have been able to maintain the faith without becoming divisive. Catholic schools are, as they ever have been, accepting of students from all religious and social backgrounds. They provide a structured environment in which Catholics and non-Catholics can interact without the biases of their parents and other adults.
More importantly, however, is the fact that Catholics in Northern Ireland were given the right to raise their children in the faith as a concession, and an important one. To ask them to dissolve the schools (and you must understand that most Protestant schools are state-run education, not privatized) is to ask Catholics in Northern Ireland to send their children to Protestant schools. I can tell you that I, as a parent, would not want my children educated in schools that professed a faith different from my own. I would be acutely aware of the fact that my children were receiving faith education which contradicted the faith education I desired for them.
In making his comment, because of the current sociopolitical environment of Northern Ireland, President Obama was in essence calling for the dissolution of Catholic schooling. Why? Because the state-run schools are the Protestant ones. Because Northern Ireland is a Protestant State. If there is no division of schooling, if we ask the Catholics and Protestants of Northern Ireland to educate in just one building, as he indicates, we are asking the Catholics to surrender an important concession made for the Church. We are encouraging greater hardening of hearts. On its face, President Obama’s statement was innocent, but in any amount of research you will discover that it was far more insidious, whether intentional or unintentional.
MaryRose – I’m reading the text of the speech in Northern Ireland, and I see nothing even hinting at the dissolution of Catholic schooling. Can you post the component of the speech I’m missing? I’m not saying you’re wrong – I’m just not finding what you’re finding.
http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2013/06/20130617276442.html#axzz2X48xiabL
Ex-Gop,
The comment that as long as we are schooling in separate buildings calls for a unification of schooling. Since state schooling is at this point a must in Northern Ireland, this logically leads us to understand that one building-one institution- would needs be public schooling. Public schooling, as I repeatedly mentioned, is Protestant schooling in Ireland. Disparaging a separation of schools is encouraging a state-led education, and encouraging also a Protestant education for all children in this instance.
I’m not saying it was intentional. It was quite possibly undereducated of him. But his connection of the education system with the very real self-imposed segregation in NI is a poor one which, in this circumstance, leads the Catholic Church to respond with some amount of outrage.
“If towns remain divided — if Catholics have their schools and buildings, and Protestants have theirs — if we can’t see ourselves in one another, if fear or resentment are allowed to harden, that encourages division. It discourages cooperation.”
This quote directly connects Catholic schools and Catholic buildings with the segregation of the people of Northern Ireland. And it is understandable why, but it is not enough. It is not enough that we ask Catholics not to have their own schools and “buildings”; we must also address the fact that the church and the state are linked in a very real way in NI and THAT discourages cooperation far more than a few Catholic options for children.
What our President did in his speech was to connect privatized schooling with intense segregation. And to claim that having a separate school is to have a divisive mindset is not getting at the heart of the trouble in Northern Ireland. It is demanding an apology from a heavily suppressed group within the nation and it is unjust.
Ex-Gop,
My comment is awaiting moderation, but I did respond. Not sure what caused it, but I did use the same quote that was in Lrning’s moderated comment. Irony? ;)
Edited for accuracy :)
Hi Mary Rose,
However in the case of Northern Ireland, this is an exceedingly foolish and uninformed comment for the President to have made.
You hit the nail on the head Mary Rose. For our president to comment on such an historically, politically, and religiously sensitive matter is inappropriate to say the least. This is something that runs far deeper than “disparaging Catholic schools” as you so eloquently point out. Indeed, does our president get any briefings or know even the most basic information concerning the areas he is visiting?
It reminds me of then President Jimmy Carter making a joke about his getting ”Montezuma’s Revenge” at a state luncheon with the Mexican president in Mexico City. While we Americans may find this funny, this is a very touchy political and historical issue the Mexicans did not find humorous and responded with strained silence. Or maybe one shouldn’t discuss their bout of diarrhea at a state dinner.
@ Ex-GOP: “Also, it is tough to say that somebody like Bachmann or Palin, who yell all day about how terrible the media is, is then going to be treated nicely by the media.”
That’s your riposte — “Well, they started it”? The MSM mistreatment of social conservatives predated the rise to national attention of either woman; to suggest that the media dumps on them because they complain about media bias is … well, let’s just say it’s not the most convincing argument I’ve ever read.
On June 21st the Catholic church started a fortnight of prayer and fasting leading up to the the August 1st implementation of Obamacare. At this point I am fairly certain that the church herself will remain faithful but I am not as sure about the majority of ‘catholics’. All faithful catholics should be fighting for religious freedom. I couldn’t be any more ready for this fight and I am glad to be able to wear my Christianity as a badge of courage while I carry this fight against Obama/abortion .
Hi ts,
Being Catholics helped re elect Obama, I wouldn’t hold my breath about the majority holding firm.
MaryRose – quoting Lrning must be a dangerous thing!
Anthony – I never meant to say that for either Palin or Bachmann, that is the main reason – I think the main reason is they’ve both said horribly stupid and/or insensitive things. But the media is surely not going to bend over backwards defending them when they back up those horribly stupid things by then bashing the media, or blaming the media for the dumb things they said. For instance, I’ll never understand how anybody with a shred of intelligence or honesty to them can watch the Palin/Couric interview and blame Couric for any of it – and a common conservative line after that interview was that it was the media’s fault. Come on.
Mary,
Indeed, does our president get any briefings or know even the most basic information concerning the areas he is visiting?
Exactly! I’m just not sure how he could have missed this in a briefing, so there are two possibilities:
(a) Obama’s comments are an attack on the Church. This is not unbelievable given the reality that his admin has launched an attack on the tenents of the faith, and has made a point of targeting Catholic institutions and Catholic individuals, installing “cafeteria Catholics” at every opportunity to further undermine Rome. I usually try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but at some point you can’t close your eyes and ears any longer.
OR
(b) There are no briefings. Or his staff is a group of morons. Regardless, he is not being properly briefed on the local politics and such. Given the number of political gaffes that were directly connected to the local policies, I wonder if this isn’t in fact the case. If he just can’t be bothered to have an informed opinion, and if in fact the attack on the Church is orchestrated beyond him.
Ex-GOP,
Since the original quote was Obama’s, I’ll point out that it would seem quoting Obama is the dangerous thing.
MaryRose says:
Lrning,
It is incredibly insensitive in any case to imply that sending your child to a religious institute for education is somehow divisive.
President Obama was in essence calling for the dissolution of Catholic schooling.
I’m quite certain that many people hearing Obama’s comments are coming to the same conclusion as you. I just don’t agree. Looking at what he said, I don’t think he’s implying Catholic schooling is divisive or that it should be dissolved. If I look at the entirety of his long sentence, I see something different. I think he’s saying that segregating towns and lives based on religion is divisive and leads to a lack of cooperation. Heck, I think we can look to some other areas of the world for extreme examples of just how true that is.
“if we can’t see ourselves in one another, if fear or resentment are allowed to harden” IMO, this is a key part of his statement that isn’t addressed by the hoopla over the part of his sentence that included “schools”.
But, whatever. Everyone will is entitled to their own opinion. I don’t like the man, many of his policies make me ill, and he is an enemy to religious freedom. I still don’t see in the statement quoted earlier what many others see, apparently.
This site doesn’t like what I have to say today. Another comment in moderation, despite having no links. Wish I knew what word or phrase was triggering this. Can a mod rescue my comment?
Mary, the church’s stance is getting seriously stronger and they are being more vocal in their opposition….will that make a difference to the non-practicing catholics…I wouldn’t hold my breath on that either. But as a practicing catholic it is inspirational to hear my church speaking up for the church’s teaching on contraception and abortion…even now including a call for defiance and openly speaking and working against Obama by name. It has reached a new level within the the church itself and within the community of faithful practicing catholics.
Ex-GOP,
Obama called Hawaii part of Asia. He mispronounced corpsman as Corpse-man. He made the absolutely fabulous comment about how UPS and FedEx are just fine but the USPS is struggling. He called “the Middle East” an issue that has plagued the area. He commented that his policies would be greater choice…and inefficiencies to healthcare. He confused German for a non-existent language called Austrian. He mocked the Special Olympics. He has claimed to be in one city while actually in another. He very observantly mentioned that Israel is a friend of Israel. He claimed to see many of our “fallen heroes” in the audience. He seems to think there are 58 states. When 12 people died in a tornado in Kansas, Obama claimed that 10,000 died. He referred to his Muslim religion. Shall I continue?
Sarah Palin’s interview with Couric was uncomfortable, but it was highly exaggerated by SNL to the extent that many don’t even realize that it was Tina Fey who claimed to be able to “see Russia from her house”; SP wasn’t actually that easy to attack. The media had to reach for things like an old beauty pageant and a disabled son, and Tina Fey quotes, to attack Palin. They had to go after her pregnant daughter, and her dialect. Oh, and her wardrobe.
Seriously, I didn’t see that many articles and interviews that went poorly. AND she completely out-debated Biden. You can call her stupid until you’re blue in the face, but the common perception against her was largely a media effort. Even if you type “Palin quote” into your google search bar, it supplies “I can see Russia.”
I’m just saying, her gaffes were no greater than anyone else’s. I’ll totally accept that Rush Limbaugh is full of deplorable comments. There are plenty of people out there being idiots in the media light. Palin wasn’t one of them, but she was not an acceptable candidate for our extreme left media. She wouldn’t accept that her body was her enemy, that working and parenting are incompatible. She is a beautiful woman whose family exudes that beauty, and who doesn’t want or need to hide that family from the press. She couldn’t accept the extreme leftist belief that abnormality makes one without value, or that young pregnancy is a veritable death sentence.
Palin’s strong face made the media rabid. She was all that they had been telling us for years is impossible. And she seemed happy on top of it all. So they went after everything. They went after Bristol, after Trig, after Willow, after her clothing and her staff and her dialect and her beauty. They made her as unpalatable as possible. And they did so in the most aggressive, nasty, jealous and petty ways they could.
Bachmann, similarly, has chosen life and her career at the same time. She is a lovely woman with a large family and a keen eye for politics. She devoted her home to girls suffering from eating disorders, taking in foster children and getting her home legally defined as a treatment home. She had the gall to think for herself in a Democratic family. She has been a firm supporter of the pro-life community, even counseling women outside of clinics.
Both of these women have made some political errors, but none of these were as extreme or horrifying as MSM would have them. Why? Because we have two attractive, strong women who managed a career and a family successfully, two women who blew apart the Democrat argument that you cannot be a parent and have your career. Both women who maintain strong marriages without allowing their husbands to act like children, stray, or coerce sexual favors (see: Clinton marriage). And considering the media scrutiny into Marcus Bachmann, I’d say we can pretty safely assume we’d know by now.
Lrning, I rescued your second comment held today. No idea why. MaryRose, yours too. Although in that case it was next to a Denise comment. Maybe the automatic net was cast too wide? :)
I appear to be the only mod /church mouse here, but alas I’m off for an evening of tv.
Lrning,
I just think that combining a comment about education with a comment about segregation and the way he approached it suggests that either he didn’t understand the local politics and how damaging that could be or else he did it on purpose.
MaryRose -
Surely, you are smart enough to know the difference of when somebody misspeaks, and when somebody doesn’t know.
For instance, it was clear on the number of states that Obama made a quick verbal mistake.
It was quite as clear that Palin, when asked twice, couldn’t come up with a newspaper or magazine, didn’t understand what the Bush doctrine was, couldn’t name supreme court cases – I mean, I could go on and on. She’s even been called out by people on Fox for goodness sakes.
Again, don’t mistake somebody saying something wrong after a long day with not knowing.
Furthermore, do you really want to list out Bachmann lies/mistakes? I’ll play the game if you want.
‘For instance, it was clear on the number of states that Obama made a quick verbal mistake.’
lol…
Ex-RINO, I heard that the IRS sent 46 million dollars in tax refunds to twenty four thousand illegal aliens last year….at a single address. And liberals like you say the IRS is ready to take over managing who should pay the government for health care and how much they owe….if it wasn’t so hideously incompetent it would be funny.
Mary:
I looked at the link you suggested….is it what you meant to send?
Hopefully they finally make some changes to the ITIN system – it has been a problem for quite a while.
The IRS component of healthcare reform is a necessary evil as part of the individual mandate, something conservatives have argued in favor of for years as a component of personal responsibility. Now, conservatives seems to be running away from personal responsibility. Very odd.
Regardless, I’m all in favor of repeal and replace – get rid of health care reform and put in a universal system. We pay too much in this country for healthcare, and it shouldn’t be tied to employment like it is. System needs a revamp.
Hi Jerry,
Yes, I was pointing out Obama assuring Medvedev, who was to pass on the message to Putin, that Obama would have more flexibility concerning our missile defenses after the 2012 election. Hardly reassuring.
This is the video I was talking about. It is rather long. You can’t help but notice Putin’s body language. He can barely stomach sitting there with Obama. Obama thanks Putin for their cooperation concerning the Boston bombing. Yeah dipstick, the Russians warned us twice about those terrorists, lot of good it did. Little scary to think someone with this obvious contempt for Obama is who he plans to be “flexible” with concerning our nuclear missiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48nKkUs3Wc
Hi Jerry,
I responded to your post and was put into moderation mode. It seems to be catching.
Anyway, you can see the video I was referring to on youtube. I gave a link but that’s probably why it was moderated. Its the meeting between Obama and Putin dated a few days ago. Putin’s disdain for our fearless leader is obvious by his body language. Its in Russian and English and is about 10 minutes long.
The video I posted was pointing out that Obama planned to “negotiate” our missile defenses with Putin after he won the 2012 election, scary given the contempt Putin has for him. I suspect any “negotiations” will be very one sided.
Ex-RINO,
You know the health care actuaries involved in government health care promote abortion as a cost-savings right? Would your universal health care nirvana have the government sponsoring family reduction services for the citizens?
truth –
Of course, I believe anything you ever say. Everything you’ve ever written has been some completely accurate – your explanation of medicare, medicaid, how the law works. I mean, how could I ever doubt a thing that you say? I’m sure that the government will force abortions for as many as they can, and catch the rest of them with the death panel.
“I’m sure that the government will force abortions for as many as they can, and catch the rest of them with the death panel.”
You are correct that actuaries for government panels that oversee universal health care in other places with the ‘universal’ systems you like do also see care for the elderly and end-of-life care as prohibitively expensive. The panels that oversee these things are not their to make any moral judgements. They just plug in the numbers. People like you choose to deny those numbers and resort to sarcasm etc. cause you know it is the the truth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/elderhealth/9343428/Elderly-patients-helped-to-die-to-free-up-beds-warns-doctor.html
Sorry truth – let me a little more blunt – your lack of knowledge regarding health care, coupled with your flat out lying and deception, has led me to a point of simply not caring what you post anymore. The conversation last week with Jack, which you never apologized, went too far. It simply doesn’t matter to you if things are correct or not – you’ll post it anyway. Low class. Move on truth.
EG,
What do you think of some of these experimental non-insurance programs that are popping up? They sound very much like organic food co-ops. There have been several segments on Fox News, which you may not have seen.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-friends/index.html#http://video.foxnews.com/v/2440250634001/sick-of-the-status-quo-doctors-test-new-no-insurance-models/?playlist_id=164445
I voted for #3 by Joel Pett just for the sheer stupidity it illustrates. Just take .002 more seconds to think about what you’re writing there, Joel.
The hallmark of liberals (like Ex-GOP) is that they put a profound amount of faith in Big Government solutions to all sorts of problems. They fear Big Business.
Meanwhile, conservatives tend to trust Big Business and fear Big Government.
Obamacare is a cooperative coalition of Big Government with Big Business (the large insurance companies and healthcare HMO’s). It should offend and frighten just about everyone. Even Obama was afraid to get on board as the Democrats rammed this through Congress. (He didn’t get on board until Planned Parenthood showed him how PP could score a big windfall if Obama would force coverage of everyone’s monthly contraception consumption.)
For a little while, we have a window in which to try alternative healthcare paradigms…. but this won’t last long. Big Business Healthcare now has the coercive power of Big Government to guarantee their profits. Soon we will all be required to pay too much for healthcare insurance, and quality healthcare will only be available to the rich on a healthcare black market.
Great link, Hans.
It seems some docs have thought of a creative way to revamp the system.
A food co-op is being organized in my area and people are showing a lot of interest. It would be great if a few doctors/nurses started up a non-insurance health clinic, too.
Boy, wouldn’t it be nice to have health care co-ops catch on? It would make the bureaucrats’ heads explode. But then, they’re always covered.
https://www.google.com/search?q=health+care+without+insurance&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=health+care+without+insurance&client=firefox-a&hs=aiV&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ei=2HLIUY2BM6T94APbw4HwDg&ved=0CAwQ_AUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48293060,d.dmg&fp=efb579a74e4ef970&biw=1440&bih=696
My, that address is almost as long as the Obamacare law!
Mary Rose –
Would “like” your comment at June 23, 5:39PM about Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann a million times if I could.
Maureen
Hans – first off, good call on me not seeing it if it was on Fox! :-)
Anyway, I’m massively in favor of primary care (which is what this is) – and laws should push to encourage that model. If you’ve got two groups of people – the first get regular physicals and have a cheap place to go when they have small issues – and the second doesn’t get regular care, and goes in only when they have something big – I mean, what group do you think is going to have better outcomes? So what he’s encouraging is healthy lifestyles, and catching the small stuff before it gets big.
Now, somebody would have to have further insurance – if somebody gets cancer, he doesn’t deal with it (I checked his site) – you’d get referred somewhere else – so you’d have to have something else to cover bigger things.
It will be interesting to see how his business model holds up long term. One of the things I like about reform (there is a lot I don’t like, and a lot I like) is that primary care (yearly physicals and such) are generally mandated to be covered for free under the plan. So in this case, his real draw is that the cost of going to him overall will be cheaper than under a plan. What I mean is, if you have a rough and tumble family that you know you’re going to have possible x-rays, strep throat tests, and sports physicals, you’ll come out ahead. If you’re 25 and healthy, and might not go in, you’d be paying about $145 ($10 a month, plus $25 for the visit) for a physical you’d get free under your fuller plan.
I’m all for creative solutions -the same ole, same ole from the insurance companies is a broken model. I think the key question is, is the person covered by the plan (co-op, whatever) – if they get cancer, is that their financial ruin, or do they have coverage? And this is for the financial stability of both the person, but all of us as well. If I get cancer, and don’t have coverage, and don’t pay my bills – guess who is paying? The rest of us…
Thanks for sharing though – interesting concept. My work has free primary care (doesn’t even go through insurance), and it’s been driving down overall costs – and this pretty close to that same model.
“Sorry truth – let me a little more blunt – your lack of knowledge regarding health care, coupled with your flat out lying and deception, has led me to a point of simply not caring what you post anymore. The conversation last week with Jack, which you never apologized, went too far. It simply doesn’t matter to you if things are correct or not – you’ll post it anyway. Low class. Move on truth.”
lol. Not one word of substance and nothing to refute the links I posted and not man enough to address the FACT that your government run health care nirvana promotes assistance in killing the unborn and the elderly as necessary to cost-savings within the model. Typical Ex-RINO.
truth – you wouldn’t understand anyway – and the multiple likes on my comment to you seem to back that up.
Look, I’m not really trying to be mean (maybe just a little) – but we go through this time and time again. You ask questions, make it painfully obvious that you have no idea what even the general concepts are, and are even more clueless in regards to what you do or don’t support. Do some reading and come back another time, seriously. The going around in circles because you don’t undertand – it gets old.
At the risk of repeating myself….
lol. Not one word of substance and nothing to refute the links I posted and not man enough to address the FACT that your government run health care nirvana promotes assistance in killing the unborn and the elderly as necessary to cost-savings within the model. Typical Ex-RINO.
If I was really that far off you would be more than happy to point it out and make fun… But you cannot so when confronted with the truth you avoid the conversation and resort to personal attacks. That is all you have on this blog because it is difficult to deny the truth here.
“and the multiple likes on my comment to you seem to back that up.”
Ex-RINO, you, and liberals in general, take your comfort from the ‘likes’ you get from one another. People of substance and principle take comfort in the truth.
Jack -
if you are reading any of this – here is some facts regarding a conversation we were having last week on reform:
http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2013/06/obamacare-in-2014-will-workers-be-able-to-afford-the-health-benefits-their-employers-offer/
Ex-RINO, is it just a ‘glitch’ that your article addresses the cost of premiums as ‘affordable’ cause it is less than 10% of income but it doesn’t even mention the out-of-pocket deductibles which raises the cost to 25% of income?
How many glitches does it take to fill up 10,000 pages of regulations?
OH wait. The article does address deductibles. It mentions that there are no deductibles on the preventive care…..I guess we are supposed to be ok with $3000 deductibles since annual checkups and ‘preventive care’ like teeth cleanings do not have any out-of-pocket to pay towards the $3000. Somehow that does not really help when it costs $1500 out of pocket to get a crown on one tooth or $3000 out of pocket to get a kid orthodontic work.
Whenever you are ready Ex-RINO you can address the FACT that your government run health care nirvana promotes assistance in killing the unborn and the elderly as necessary to cost-savings within the model.
truth -
Yes or no – you have been very supportive, on this board, of catastrophic plans, known for high deductibles, but coverage for big things?
I have been supportive of people getting to choose to buy any plan they want for themselves. Any premium, any deductible and any custom coverage or lack of coverage they’d like.
I do not support politicians and cronies and health marketers lowering premiums while trying to hide higher deductibles in order to make a claim of less out-of-pocket expenses and affordability. For example, I would personal rather have a $3000 premium with a 1000 deductible than a $2000 premium and a $1000 deductible cause I know my family is gonna hit either.
But that doesn’t seem to be in line of your criticism a few posts back – there, you seemed to be against higher deductibles – then you seem to be in favor of anything.
So how are you critical of any sort of deductibles, high or low, if you, as you claim, support freedom to buy any sort of plan?
And yet here, you don’t support lower premiums for higher deductibles, even though at the beginning of the same post, you say that you support people buying any sort of plan that they want.
Which side of the mouth are you going to stick with – the side that is complaining about higher deductibles? Or the side that supports all types of plans? You seem to be complaining about something that you support – no?
Just to be clear – you are complaining about plans with lower premiums and higher deductibles: – truth says: “I do not support politicians and cronies and health marketers lowering premiums while trying to hide higher deductibles in order to make a claim of less out-of-pocket expenses and affordability.”
But then you also say “I have been supportive of people getting to choose to buy any plan they want for themselves. Any premium, any deductible and any custom coverage or lack of coverage they’d like.”
So you are supportive of all plans, except for the ones that you are against.
Can you clear this up a bit please?
Did you even read the second paragraph of my previous post? It explains exactly what I am against. . If there is any part of that second paragraph you need me to clarify then let me know and I will try to rephrase it for you.
Were you going to address my post that you tried avoiding? “the FACT that your government run health care nirvana promotes assistance in killing the unborn and the elderly as necessary to cost-savings within the model.”
Yes – you need to clarify – you said: “I do not support politicians and cronies and health marketers lowering premiums while trying to hide higher deductibles in order to make a claim of less out-of-pocket expenses and affordability.”
But previously, you said that support any sort of mix.
Are you saying you are favor of regulation saying that there is a max dollar amount on plans?
Or are you simply saying that you support people buying ANYTHING, but YOU personally don’t like those sort of plans (which, in case, you are simply saying it is a matter of taste, and probably shouldn’t have talked so harshly about it).
You typically get to ask all the questions – we’ll sort out your positions for a while, and then get to what you want. If you have an issue with that, feel free to bail on the conversation.
“Jack -
if you are reading any of this – here is some facts regarding a conversation we were having last week on reform:
http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2013/06/obamacare-in-2014-will-workers-be-able-to-afford-the-health-benefits-their-employers-offer/“
Yeah, I’m reading along. Just didn’t have the energy yesterday to chime in lol. Thanks for the article, it pretty much sums up what I’ve found researching this past week.
Jack – excellent. Hope all is well – I’ve been following the Florida medicaid expansion debate. Looks a lot like Wisconsin – hospitals want it, businesses want it, advocates for children want it – yet you’ve got people who think that it is more important to defeat the President then help their people out..so we’ll see what happens.
Rick Snyder, republican from Michigan, wrote a pretty good op-ed supporting expansion, and saying it would save lives. Interesting read.
“Ex-RINO, is it just a ‘glitch’ that your article addresses the cost of premiums as ‘affordable’ cause it is less than 10% of income but it doesn’t even mention the out-of-pocket deductibles which raises the cost to 25% of income”
Do you realize that before ACA there was no cap on out of pocket expenses, lifetime caps and no requirement that any percentage of premiums be spent on care? You’re seriously not making any sense at all. You’re complaining about out of pocket costs, apparently not realizing that many people had much higher out of pocket expenses than the cap that will now be in place. And that doesn’t even touch on the fact that people without insurance pay all their prices out of pocket, and these services are priced higher. This doesn’t even make sense. I don’t even realize what you’re complaining about now.
“Jack – excellent. Hope all is well – I’ve been following the Florida medicaid expansion debate. Looks a lot like Wisconsin – hospitals want it, businesses want it, advocates for children want it – yet you’ve got people who think that it is more important to defeat the President then help their people out..so we’ll see what happens. ”
Yeah, even our conservative governor (who I generally dislike in other areas) supported the Medicaid expansion. Right now it’s just a bunch of panhandle Republicans doing what you said, disliking the President instead of taking care of their constituency. Whatever. If they don’t expand they can have about a million people who don’t qualify for subsidies but can’t get on Medicaid, and our healthcare problem won’t improve as much as we’d hope for.
Jack – that was sort of the question I was getting to – I am interested in truth’s explanation because his statements seem to be contradicting each other. Specifically, he seems to be saying something is a shortfall in reform that he, personally, supports.
Ex-GOP,
So help me, I actually “liked” your response to my links of “co-op – style” medical care. :) Of course this doesn’t really address more serious illnesses. Like I said before, I’m not nearly as interested in the topic as you, ts, Jack, and Mary.
Let’s just summarize our differences in saying that I’m a lot more suspect of government control than you are. As vital as health is, I do believe commerce should have a greater role even in this. The competitve marketplace should have the breathing room to drive down costs and improve efficiency.
Government oversight, not government control.
Ex-RINO,
When you read my post did you see the part that said;
“while trying to hide higher deductibles”
I don’t care what deductible plan a person chooses to purchase. What I do not support is people offering lower premiums and claiming cheaper health care when they are actually raising deductibles and the plans are effectively more expensive.
Is that clear enough?
And you are joke of a man. You have no backbone. The experts who support your universal system of health care nirvana (including Obama) say that government mandated family reduction services are preventive care and cost savings. Just what does that mean? What is being prevented? Or do you not even admit that a part of your health care nirvana mandates free family reduction services?
Your last statements would certainly mean more to me if I had any respect for you and your intelligence. You might have a good heart (though it doesn’t really display on this board) – but again, given what I know of you, being insulted by you is probably a good thing.
Back to the actual topic though – many plans with lower premiums and higher deductibles are better for people – and that is exactly what a catastrophic plan is, which you have argued for. If you feel that there should be regulation regarding plans that you feel are deceptive, that would COMPLETELY go against what you said just last week when you offered support for mini-med plans, which are a joke.
So you support everything, except that you don’t, when it is convenient to criticize other plans. I think that’s the summation of this argument here. Yes?
Ex-RINO, mini-meds or no meds or multi-meds or large-meds or really-really tiny meds are all ok with . Funny plans or sad plans or happy plans etc. etc… as long as the plan is not sold deceptively and not so complicated that you have to get hospitalized to figure out that it wasn’t the type of coverage you thought it was.
Now admit that the experts who support your universal system of health care nirvana (including Obama) say that government mandated family reduction services are preventive care and cost savings. Just what does that mean? What is being prevented? Or do you not even admit that a part of your health care nirvana mandates free family reduction services?
Does your father also think promoting family reduction services is a Godly thing to do?
Hans -
I’d gladly lay out my reasons why I feel that healthcare doesn’t operate like the free market – it’s actually a list I stole from somebody else – but if you want to keep the conversation going, I certainly am willing.
I’m taking the “I’ll summarize” as a verbal hint that you’re wrapping up though, so I’ll summarize and say that I think health care reform is the last shot the free market has in health care in the US. We’ve had the free market in the US regarding healthcare for 50+ years, and the end result is similar to worse outcomes than the rest of the world, and we pay much higher amounts of our GDP than anyone else in the world – so we pay more for similar to worse results. I think the dozens of years in the free market for health care has shown, beyond any reasonable doubt, that health care and the free market aren’t a good fit.
Nice talking with you though (unless you want to continue further)
truth -
We’re not onto the universal plan stuff.
This conversation started because you said this: “ It mentions that there are no deductibles on the preventive care…..I guess we are supposed to be ok with $3000 deductibles since annual checkups and ‘preventive care’ like teeth cleanings do not have any out-of-pocket to pay towards the $3000. Somehow that does not really help when it costs $1500 out of pocket to get a crown on one tooth or $3000 out of pocket to get a kid orthodontic work.”
Now, there’s no mandate in health care reform saying a deductible has to be at a certain amount. Furthermore, you don’t agree with any deductible mandates anyway, so you don’t have a leg to stand on in that debate.
Furthermore, while for YOU, a higher deductible plan might not work (because of regular family care for things) – it’s clear that for SOME that it does work. I think we sorted out your strong feelings to be personal preference.
So, after all this – is it fair to say that based on the post that I sent to Jack, you have no issues – that your “objection” that you raised wasn’t grounded in anything that you actually have an alternate thought on?
If not, let me know what your objection still is.
If you agree with that summation, state it clearly (that you actually have no issue), and we can move on to your other questions.
I object to weasels and liars who scam the public with claims that are based on gimmicks and shell games. Whether it is health insurance or home owners insurance.
Oh look. The Obamacare data-hub run by unelected bureaucrats who hire cronies to implement regulations is going access and mine just a little more of our personal info then you might have previously thought..
http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/06/26/think-nsa-spying-bad-wait-till-you-see-obamacare-hub
Hi ts,
Interesting link. Imagine poor old Max’s shock when he sobered up and discovered this!
I see our fearless leader, an international laughing stock, is now planning to singlehandedly save the planet from the ravishes of climate change.
I see that Mary. We have a genuine Don Quixote for president.
I also see that another IRS employee invoking his fifth amendment privileges and refusing to testify about what he did as a public employee. This is insane.
http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/06/26/another-irs-official-takes-fifth
Ex-GOP,
I’ll go this far, and let Mary and ts soldier on in this debate. All my life the big problem with health care was the spiraling of prices. There were proposals such as tort reform, but even so it has really been a back-burner issue.
Along comes the distractor-in-chief, who made government control of health care his big thing, along with “climate change”. So instead of concentrating on righting the economy, he has focussed on two ways to throw extra balls and chains on the economy.
That will be his legacy, and I’m convinced we’re in for an avalanche of headlines in the next few years that will bear that out. The dust will settle and we’ll see who was right.
I’ll read your response and harrumph, but then I’m strictly a spectator unless I want to point to some of those headlines. But I’m sure Mary and ts will do so anyway.
Ex-Democratic Voter
(For Carter over Ford. “Fool me once…and don’t be fooled again!”, as G.W. Bush said. :) )
Hi ts,
I think Mighty Mouse is a more accurate description:
Here I come to save the daaaaaaay
That means that Mighty Mouse, is on his waaaay!
You should remember that cartoon Hans! :)
Maybe that IRS employee doesn’t know anything. Its entirely possible he was on a Star Trek mission the whole time.
Hi Mary,
Oh, I do! :)
Hi Hans,
Every Saturday morning!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X78i13q-atk&NR=1&feature=endscreen
“I object to weasels and liars who scam the public with claims that are based on gimmicks and shell games. Whether it is health insurance or home owners insurance.”
You continue to talk out of both sides of your mouth. You won’t regulate plans – you would regulate plans. Some plans are just personal taste. You attack these phantom plans that are a hoax, while ignoring actual hoax plans like mini-med plans. It’s a logical knot you’ve tied yourself into on this one.
Great story you posted truth – it looks like the federal government is being accused of collecting information that the federal government has collected for years. News flash from Fox – the government might get your SSN and income records!
Sigh
Come back when you actually have a complaint about something. Otherwise, you and Mary can have fun swapping conspiracy theories.
Hans -
Tort reform would be helpful in some cases – most studies say it would knock a half a percent or so to the cost of medicine.
If costs are the issue, then single payer is the solution.
Have you read the Time magazine article (book except) called ‘A Bitter Pill” about the cost of medicine? If you haven’t, I’d rush to your local library, find it, and read it. It’s a long article – 20 or so pages in the magazine – and you’ll probably end up breaking a few things in frustration as you read it – but it sums up the issue nicely – things you can buy in the store for $1 you pay $50 for in a medical facility. Very lovely.
EGV,
“Conspiracy theories”? Sure EGV, whatever.
“it looks like the federal government is being accused of collecting information that the federal government has collected for years.”
It looks like the branches of the federal government that have historically been given access to the personal information of citizens has now been expanded to allow unelected bureaucrats to appoint people who can mine what was once considered to be private information. But according to Ex-RINO we should pay no attention cause in his mind this has been going on for years and will continue whether we like it or not so we should just shut up and bend over for him and take it in the @$$.
Yawn
I’m just saying, of all the privacy concerns in this country that have emerged over the past 10-15 years, this is what you’re going to get upset with?
So I guess we’ve officially moved on from healthcare? That’s good at least.
I’m heading on a vacation anyways, so you and Mary can swap FoxNews stories for a while – I’m out until next week.
EGV,
Ever find out if you’re one of the 10 million Americans who got their medical records stolen by the IRS?
http://www.humanevents.com/2013/05/15/irs-sued-for-stealing-the-medical-records-of-10-million-americans/
Have a great vacation.
Mary – thanks!
Tried to find more info on that case, to see if it was moving forward – no news on it. I did find that the guy who filed it was Wesley Snipes lawyer! I think you should give him a call tomorrow and try to jump into the class action lawsuit.
http://www.barneslawllp.com/about/
My guess is that your man doesn’t share the same feelings as you do regarding tort reform!
May your vacation be long. You have serious problems with facing up to your support of family reduction services. Denial will not work with God. Try speaking with our Heavenly Father about family reduction services and violence in the womb in particular while you are out on vacation. You know such people are being lead by the anti-Christ.
EGV,
Wesley Snipes’ lawyer? Interesting. Well, Wesley sure wouldn’t have to settle for just anyone.
Class action suit? Sounds like the suit will be plenty big enough, to the tune of billions of dollars. But we can’t be too sure can we EGV? Maybe you and I are among those who had their records taken. Wonder what we would get.
I would have no idea what the man thinks of tort reform. He certainly has never seen fit to inform me!
Anyway have fun.
Ex-RINO, under Obama government officials are able to sell your personal information to cronies and when they get caught they can just plead the fifth amendment cause they know Obama and Holder will not seek prosecution of political supporters. This is what you support. And this is why the Obamacare information hub is such a bad idea.
truth -
Taking off in about an hour – thanks for the vacation wishes.
I think your statement on family reduction services is a rather odd one, seeing that hasn’t been a conversation topic. It’s like me, all of the sudden, coming out and saying that you love porn, even though we’ve not even talked about it.
Later
No, nothing like that at all. Your response above is just one more example of how deep your denial goes. I have mentioned family reduction services to you at least a half a dozen times on this thread alone and you have consistently refused to address it. And now you are denying that I ever even mentioned it at all. Think about that…