Jew uses faith to justify helping women get abortions
I joined Haven because I am Jewish, and I embrace the tradition of social justice. I wanted to act with ometz, the courage to take risks in pursuing a just cause, and fulfill my obligation of tikkun olam, the call to repair a world rife with inequity.
One member of Haven, Rabbi David Adelson, dedicated a Rosh Hashanah sermon to Haven’s work. He told his congregation that we are created equally in the image of God — b’tselem elohim — and it is our responsibility to ensure that all people are treated equally as well. “Rights are rights only if they apply to all,” he said. “Otherwise they are simply privilege.
Our Jewish tradition demands that we disperse privilege evenly, and work to defend the rights of every member of society.” These concepts formed my core beliefs.
I could not expect others to do what I myself would not.
~ Suzanne Reisman, explaining why she provides occasional free shelter, food, and transportation for women seeking abortions in New York City as a volunteer with a pro-abortion group, Zeek, September 12
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
whutthewhut????
The cognitive dissonance is sad. The words are there, but the spirit and meaning behind them are utterly empty and dead. All the progressives mantras and bumper sticker slogans, I just wish for once then would listen to them and apply them. Sort of like Gandhi said when asked his views about western civilization, “I think it would be a good idea.”
We are so accustomed to the angry-woman face of pro-abortion, we are a little shocked to see this: Here is a good-hearted and generous person who contributes her own money to pay for other people’s abortions.
This type of person is much easier to reach. She is more like us than like the angry gang. She is not full of hate. Hopefully, she is not motivated by racism or a hope of exterminating the poor. She just wants to help women in need.
“Our Jewish tradition demands that we disperse privilege evenly, and work to defend the rights of every member of society.”
All she needs is some awareness that children are people too, and already members of our society. And when she understands that abortion hurts women too, she will want to help a crisis pregnancy center.
What right is she talking about? Men don’t have a right that women do not have. Biological fathers are expected to raise their children, just as biological mothers are expected to raise their children. So again, what right is she talking about? Do men have a right to murder their children in utero that I am unaware of?
As for privilege – well that is matter of perspective, isn’t it? Some would say that it is a privilege to able to give birth.
Sad that the Jews favor abortion as they have told me that they believe that the soul enters the body upon the cutting of the cord. In Israel all high school graduates boys and girls are mandated to serve in their Army and they will pay for one abortion for the females. Sad
“Our Jewish tradition demands that we disperse privilege evenly, and work to defend the rights of every member of society”
Does this include the ost important right of all, the right to life?
Whhhhaaaaaaaattttt? What in the world is she talking about? “Disperse the privilege evenly to kill an innocent, defenseless, human baby in utero which every single human being who walks the face of the earth once was at some point.” “I work to defend the “rights” of every member of society except the “right to life” of an unborn baby who won’t live to become a member of society after I help a woman kill him/her.” Talk about misplaced priorities and screwed up logic.
Here’s what I found on-line:
“Aborting an existing fetus is unequivocally prohibited. The famous Mishna (Ohalot 7:6) records:
“If a woman suffers hard labor in travail, the child (fetus) must be cut up in her womb and brought out piecemeal, for her life takes precedence over its life. If its greater part has already come forth, it must not be touched, for the [claim of one] life cannot supersede [that of another] life.”
“The first case mentioned in the mishna sanctions killing the fetus only because of the danger posed to the mother’s life (implying that, in general, abortion of the fetus is prohibited). Several questions arise regarding the details of this prohibition, particularly respecting its sources and scope, the responses to which carry significant practical implications.”
Read more at http://www.vbm-torah.org/halakha/abortion.htm
I’ve got to say the the Jewish Adonai is not at all happy how modern Judaism twisted the meaning of this verse. I truly hope it’s not because so many Jewish women enjoy making whoopi.
“Rights are rights only if they apply to all,” he said. “Otherwise they are simply privilege.”
An excellent argument in favor of the pro-life position. One which fails to connect with the pro-choice agenda when placed under any scrutiny.
I find that the biggest block for pc-ers with whom I discuss the abortion issue is the concept that human life at conception is equally deserving of rights as the mother. They simply don’t want to consider the child because they are so focused on the ‘rights’ of the mother. As a result, there is this weird wall in their minds about when a person begins. Besides prayer, discussion and open conversation, I’m not sure how to break that down…
Army does NOT pay for abortion. If you are pregant or get pregant you had better have family that will care for the child untill your time is up. Last trimester and 1 month after birth does NOT count toward your 2 years of service.
HA, a comment I posted on the website where this article is, precisely about what I stated above, was just deleted.
Susanne Reismann is one dishonest chick.
I wonder if Ms. Reisman would offer shelter, transportation, and food to a woman who wanted to carry her child to therm, cut had nowhere to go?
More important than “choice,” the unborn loses its right to life. You know, that trivial, “right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” in the Declaration of Independence.
I would like to see a religious, scholarly discussion of the preference for the mother’s life over the child. Including a consideration of where the tribe of Benjamin came from. And the significance of the number 12.
Biological mothers and fathers are expected to raise their children and/or choose someone else to do so, if they feel they cannot be a good parent. (I’m 41 and know I never could be one myself)
Well now I understand Jewish reasoning. Abraham was wrong, for he did not provide equal justice to his son when he was taking him to the altar to be sacrificed. Arbraham was not thinking about social justice, but rather God’s justice. So Jews believe that God was wrong regarding social justice, and therefore God needed correction. I completely get it now.
Our “elder brothers” in the faith, as John Paul II used to call the Jewish people, are disproportionately responsible for the prevalence of a culture of death in America and beyond. Dr. Bernard Nathanson was a Jewish doctor who admitted performing thousands of abortions and pushing hard for the legalization of abortion as an early member of NARAL. He later repented, became a Catholic, and wrote openly about the Jewish involvement in promoting abortion. To help Americans accept abortion as a merciful act, Norman Lear (Jewish) had sitcom character Maude (played by Jewish Bea Arthur) opt for an abortion on a show not long before Roe vs. Wade, when she was too old to care for a baby. The show really made it seem like the right thing to do. We have Jewish Paul Ehrlich to thank for setting in motion the population control movement, which has led to mass abortion and contraception. For the abortion pill RU-486 we can thank Etienne-Emile Baulieau, a French Jew. Canadians can thank Henry Morgentaler (Jewish) for their abortion rights. In France, their law which made abortion legal in 1975 was named for Simond Veil, a Jewish woman who fought hard for abortion rights. The recent federal judgment allowing girls of all ages to buy the morning-after abortion pill over the counter was made by Brooklyn Jew Edward Korman, a move so disgusting even Barack Obama felt it was too much. This is not meant as an attack on our “elder brothers”, but merely a list of undeniable facts. Make of them what you wish.
I hardly think that Jewish people have a greater hand in the state of abortion today than Christians do. For example, I believe it was a Catholic official who came up with, and suggested, the political stance of being “personally pro-life but it’s not my duty to impose my religious beliefs on others,” which is basically the main momentum for mainstream pro-abortion politics to this day.
Plain old antisemitism there, Bridgeport Guy. I know there were a couple periods in history where Jews were blamed for everything. That has never gone very well.
I visited her blog and read her whole article.
She thinks she is being charitable. She believes that she is being compassionate. She thinks she is helping poor, ethnic women to get the help that they need.
But, underneath it all, I could see the racism and class-ism that motivates this particular sort of charity. Those poor, black women don’t deserve the real help that they need. Those children don’t deserve to be born. Abortion is the better option for us, because we won’t have to care for them.
I’m too young to have seen that Maude episode but I read that she was 47 at the time and that is far from being too old to care for a baby. I’m guessing that she just didn’t want to. Of course, my parents also did not want any more children after my brother was born (around the time that Maude was on) so my mom had a tubal ligation. Why couldn’t Maude* have done that?
*the character on the show, I realize that Maude was fictional of course. (:
Why couldn’t Maude* have done that?
Because that wouldn’t have advanced whatever wicked plot that Bridgeport Guy thinks the Jews are fomenting against Christendom, of course.
The real question, though, is when will Jews grasp what is patently obvious to all Christian pro-lifers: that Jews just don’t understand Judaism?
When will you understand, LisaC, that Christian faith comes directly from the Jewish faith? It’s patently obvious that you don’t understand this.
Several respondents to my post took the easy route and pulled out the old “anti-semitism” label because I dared to point out the fact (not speculation) that Jews (small percentage of population in countries like the United States, Canada, France) have played major roles in advancing asculpture of death. Joe Biden (a Catholic who has strayed way off course) recently gave 85% of the credit to Jews for the widespread acceptanoutI’m the hearts and minds of many Americans (and this fool meant it as a compliment). The fact is that Jews, whether they ate in tune with the Talmud or not, have been influenced over many centuries by it because it was relied on by their rabbis to pass on their traditions. The Talmud (which also states that Jesus boils in excrement for eternity and that the Blessed Virgin Mary became pregnant with Jesus by a Roman soldier) put the unborn child’s life in the backseat by making acc exception forabortion in certain cases. From there, many prominent Jews have expanded this loophole and have led in the past 50 years to this widespread acceptance of legalized abortion as a necessity. Yes Christians have played a major role and need to repent, but Jews need to look in the mirror and consider what terror has been wrought by so many of them who have pushed for abortion.Fr. Paul Marx of Human Life Internationsl was labeled an anti-Semite when he merely pointed out that his fight for the protection ofunborn children was opposed by manyJews. His reputation was wrecked for pointing out a fact. A Minnesota bishop caved and made things toughfire him. Meanwhile attention and efforts on behalf of the unborn were placed low on the totem pole. So yes, just as it’s acceptable to point out the fact that most Muslims aren’t terrorists, yet mostterrorists are Muslims, I can say that most Jews are good people, but so much of the advancement of a culture of death has come from Jews without being anti-Semitic. Just the facts.
“So yes, just as it’s acceptable to point out the fact that most Muslims aren’t terrorists, yet mostterrorists are Muslims, I can say that most Jews are good people, but so much of the advancement of a culture of death has come from Jews without being anti-Semitic.”
This statement alone is enough to make me disregard the rest of your (inaccurate) statement. The majority of terrorists are not Muslim. You have never heard of the IRA, the drug cartels from Latin America? Guerrilla movements in Asia? Nothing to do with Islam, and just as prevalent. That’s NOT to say there isn’t a huge problem with extremism in Islam and instability in Arabic countries that is producing some virulent terrorism, but it’s inaccurate to characterize terrorism as a Muslim thing. Actually, one of the biggest threats of terrorism that Americans have to face is South and Central American and Mexican cartels because of drug and human trafficking to and from the US. Terrorism grows in politically unstable, poverty-stricken countries for a variety of reasons, and the countries that we’re closest to geographically? Not Muslim. You also have more of a risk for LEFT wing extremism groups committing terrorism in the US than Muslim groups, which are generally classified RIGHT wing. ALSO, people like Timothy McVeigh (American right wing extremist) is more of a threat in the US than Muslim attacks. To be clear, again, I’m not saying there’s no threat from Islamic terrorism, because there is, but it’s not the only problem and terrorism isn’t something Muslims invented or even perpetrate disproportionately.
It seems as though you really like sweeping statements about groups of people you don’t belong to.
Oh, and how I understand it is that many major religions didn’t condemn abortion all that much for thousands of years, because many of them didn’t think there was a life there until the “quickening”, among other reasons depending on the faith. Obviously, we know better now, but ancient religious traditions don’t always catch up to science very quickly. I mean, come on, people even used to think that an entire baby was contained in sperm and the uterus is just an incubator. Since Judaism is quite ancient, beats Christianity and Islam by several thousand years, it does stand to reason that many traditions carried forward might not be as pro-life as we would like, since they were created far before we had the resources and technology to understand what exactly a fetus is. I know there are Jews that are working within their communities to bring awareness and change about this way of thinking. Makes much more sense than condemning Judaism as a whole and blaming them for abortion being legal.
There are like, I think, around 6 million Jews (not all practicing) in the US out of our ~350 million population. You’re gonna act like that tiny percentage of people are the main movers and shakers behind pro-abortion ideology? That’s so far beyond conspiracy it’s ridiculous. It’s passing the buck.
Bridgeport Guy, I’m not going to label you “bigot” but ignorant, certainly. And you are certainly ignorant beyond belief, and display very little understanding of the world.
Believe me, expanding a loophole in the Talmud is not what brought us abortion on demand in this country or in any other. It is atheism, agnosticism, secularism, and let’s not forget our old pal, relativism — in other words, rejection of God and his law. It may be a practical decision in some cases to ignore God’s law, but in many more, out and out rejection of it. It did not come from any religion.
Dr. Bernard Nathanson may have been of Jewish background, but it was as a committed atheist that he worked for abortion. And when he converted to the Catholic faith, it was not from the Jewish faith, but from atheism. Henry Morgentaler was Jewish but was also an atheist. I’m pretty sure Norman Lear was an atheist. You could probably go right down the list. Most would almost certainly be atheist /agnostic or at least non-religious Jews; these are people accept everything the secular left says, right along with all the so-called “Catholics” who do the same.
I agree with you on one thing: it was very wrong of people, no matter who, to criticize Fr. Marx for what he said. If I remember right, he certainly didn’t attribute the origin of abortion on demand to the Jewish faith. He did say that it was odd that such a large proportion of Jews, the people who were the victims of the Holocaust, supported abortion, as though they had no understanding for the value of the human lives lost in abortion. And the answer, I think, would be their rejection of God; so many Jews lost their faith after the Holocaust.
And here you do have to wonder. Morgentaler lost most of his family to the Holocaust. He himself was imprisoned at Dachau as a young man. He of all people should understand what it means to dehumanize someone so you can kill him. But he apparently learned nothing from it. Maybe it is similar to the case of those who are abused in childhood and later become abusers themselves. . .
Among the few religious Jews still out there, many are pro-life. And then there is the poor, pathetic woman whose story started this thread. She is a victim of relativism and poor thinking. She came to the same conclusion as Morgentaler. It solves a problem, so it’s good. She doesn’t understand the nature of abortion, because our society conspires to confuse her, to make it so she can’t understand it. This is something people fall victim to, no matter what religion they are.
“It is atheism, agnosticism, secularism, and let’s not forget our old pal, relativism — in other words, rejection of God and his law. It may be a practical decision in some cases to ignore God’s law, but in many more, out and out rejection of it. It did not come from any religion. ”
No, I disagree with this as well. There’s nothing about being an atheist or agnostic or secularist that determines that you need to be pro-choice. I do admit that a lot of atheists and agnostics are pro-choice, but there is no doctrine connected to not being a Christian or Jew that requires you to believe it’s okay to kill the unborn. Abortion arose in our society from people, of all different backgrounds, religions, races, etc, refusing to allow the same civil rights as any other humans. There are many Christians who participate in pro-abortion advocacy as well as atheists/agnostics. It’s a human problem, not something that is confined to secular people. There are groups such as Secular Pro-Life and PLAGAL that are not religious but defend unborn humans just like religious groups do. It’s not fair to blame abortion on any particular religion or lack thereof, in my opinion.
And there’s also the fact that the majority of Americans identify as Christian, and there are many Christian denominations that approve of abortion at least in the sense they don’t think it’s a problem for government. You can argue they aren’t following true Christian doctrine, which I do believe is true, but it’s undeniable that Christians as well as those of other faiths contribute to the problem. ALL of us are responsible for this, not just secularists, or Jews, or any other minority group that people like to blame it on.
I’m sorry, Jack, I certainly did not mean to say that ALL secularists or atheists are pro-abortion by any means. I’m very well aware that you and other secularists /atheists here are pro-life and I do appreciate and welcome you.
I know there are always difficulties in treating a complex subject like this in a combox where you are worried everything is going to disappear into a black hole in cyberspace every second as you type :) So maybe I didn’t do a thorough enough job of explaining what I mean.
Let’s begin with what I wrote, the part that you quoted. The fundamental point I was trying to make was abut atheism as the rejection of God’s law – I mean natural law, the traditional moral law, which in the view of many religions, has God as its author. I was describing two separate things when I spoke of this rejection.
A) a practical decision to live or act as if God’s law doesn’t exist. I meant that to be descriptive of all those Christians who have decided to ignore what the natural law as enshrined in historical Christianity has taught about abortion for 2,000 years. Insofar as they are pro-choice are simply not Christian on that point. Please note what I said about the “so-called Catholics” further down. The same for other religions who hold (or used to hold) for natural-law morality.
B) a decision to completely reject God and his law. This is in reference to those out-and-out philosophical atheists who reject both God and the natural law, the traditional grounds of morality. Some atheists suggest other grounds for the moral law, usually utilitarian – the type that contributes a great deal to the idea that abortion is moral-moral because it solves a problem; it’s as bad or worse as no law at all.
You, Jack, as far as I can tell, may not be a believer, but you do hold for the traditional moral law (at least on this point) and in a very sound manner. You understand that simply being human gives you human rights, including the right to life above all, and that these rights are inherent in us from the time we come into existence. Am I right?
Accepting abortion stems from failure to acknowledge this law, which (most religious people believe) comes from God. Some so-called Christians ignore the law. Many people who don’t believe still admit that the principle of the law is true, even if they don’t think it comes from God, and may not even describe it as a law. And they will be for the protection of the right to life, as you are.
That is why support for abortion can’t stem from anywhere in the Jewish religion, as BG seems to think; it stems from the rejection of a belief in ultimate truth and rejection of moral law that Jews believe in. People of any religion can do this, who do this continue to call themselves religious, but they are deluded on this point.
(There may some religions out there uninterested in the moral law, but I wasn’t talking about them).
I hope this makes things clear?
One member of Haven, Rabbi David Adelson, dedicated a Rosh Hashanah sermon to Haven’s work. He told his congregation that we are created equally in the image of God — b’tselem elohim — and it is our responsibility to ensure that all people are treated equally as well. “Rights are rights only if they apply to all,” he said. “Otherwise they are simply privilege.
Oh my. When does this rabbi think “the image of God” kicks in? It’s structurally innate. Like a Toyota is an image of a Ford, because both are cars.
That’s why it also says “the likeness of”. That’s not redundant. Not only same type of being, but looks like also.
Lori Pieper,
I don’t believe I’m acting out of ignorance. I point the finger at my own Catholic Church first and foremost as most responsible for the culture of death. Don’t get me wrong, I completely believe the Church was founded by Jesus Christ and has His guarantee of the gates of Hell not prevailing against it. Yet, since the Church is hierarchical, any problems at the top tend to trickle down and affect all within the Church. This is definitely the case with abortion. If our bishops actually acted as if abortion were truly a major sin, we would see a big difference. Although many of them talk tough on abortion, it’s extremely rare for them to take any Catholic politician to task for being pro-abortion in their public conduct. They allow practical canonization ceremonies to take place at the funeral Masses of many politicians who spent their public life voting in favor of pro-abortion policies. The United States Council of Catholic Bishops is regularly exposed for allowing donations from the people in the pews to be passed on to “charitable organizations” that are pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, etc. Being the Church that Jesus founded, the main culpability for the culture of death lies with us when our bishops allow such things.
That being said, I stand by my earlier comments. So many people want to see honest dialogue between people of different beliefs. If that’s gonna happen, then my own people (Catholic Church) can’t get too offended when someone wants us to explain how the priest abuse crisis happened and took place for so long a time (in my opinion, it took place due to homosexuals being allowed to not only attend, but to flourish in seminaries, along with bishops shuffling abusive priests around rather than letting the Church get a black eye for the bad press). If Jews want real dialogue, their religious leaders need to have an answer as to why so many of their people (whether practicing their faith or not) go on to spread a culture of death. I feel that many of them claim to have good intentions (e.g. wanting to protect women), so they use the “loophole” found in their rabbinical texts (abortion is fine to protect the mother). “Fallen away” Jews like Nathanson, Morgentaler, et al have it in the back of their minds that their people accept abortion based on this Talmudic idea, and then take charge of the battle to get abortion legalized. Just as Catholic bishops need to make a public plea for members of their flocks (whether “practicing” or fallen away Catholics) to repent and stop spreading a culture of death, the Jewish leaders need to seriously consider why so many of their people (whether “practicing” Jews or fallen away Jews) are making such a negative difference in regard to life issues. Their actions are affecting many people beyond their own religion. You may have heard of the ship that docks in countries where abortion is illegal (oftentimes Catholic countries) and allows women to board and have abortions out at sea. This is the “brainchild” of Dutch Jew Rebecca Gomperts. Whether or not this woman practices her Jewish faith or not, her actions are having a terrible effect in places like Portugal and Ireland (well, I guess the Irish won’t have to board this shop any more for abortions since they can now do it right at the doctor’s office). Why wouldn’t rabbis in these countries call out this woman and ask her to stop fiddling in the business of these people?
Speaking of Ireland, that country’s Justice Minister, Alan Shatter (a Jew), was extremely vocal in helping to legalize abortion there. Jews make up a tiny fraction of the population of Ireland, yet Alan Shatter made headlines many, many times over the past year as the debate on abortion raged on and was eventually legalized. I have no idea whether Shatter is a practicing Jew, but he is a major supporter of Israel. It’s another case of a Jewish person going all out in a country in which they are in the small minority to ensure abortion is made very easy.
I think the question needs to be asked just what’s happening in traditionally Christian nations when our Jewish friends are softening up the culture like this. If the Jews who are doing so are atheists, we have to ask why so many non-practicing Jews make it a goal of theirs to chisel away at Christian beliefs, tradition, etc. Maybe you’re familiar with the “purging” of Christianity in the military. It’s being led by atheist Jew Mikey Weinstein. Look him up. He blamed the Fort Hood shooting on an atmosphere that was so pro-Christian that it made the Muslim shooter snap and start killing people. Weinstein wants Christians in the military to keep their mouths shut about their faith or face charges of treason – again, look it up. Then at Christmas time, when you drive around and see billboards that say “Keep the Merry” with a picture of Santa Claus and “Get rid of the myth” next to a picture of Jesus, realize that it’s coming from an organization led by atheist Jew David Silverman. As Christian beliefs are eroded away more and more, we open ourselves up to being more accepting of a culture of death. We have to ask why so many of our Jewish friends are leading us down this path.
In a Pew Research polll taken earlier this year, 89% of people who identified as Jewish said that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. Compare this with 72% of people who claim to have no faith. That should tell you something.