Pro-life video of the day: Cohabitation increases divorce odds by 50%
by LauraLoo
A recent In the Market with Janet Parshall discussed studies that show cohabitation before marriage increases a couple’s odds of divorce by 50%. Mike McManus of Marriage Savers also examined this growing trend.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr5CmNzegjs[/youtube]
Have you ever cohabitated? If so, did it end in marriage – or did the relationship end? If you married after cohabiting did the marriage last? What words of wisdom can you share as to what you learned? Finally, do you view this as “living in sin”?
Email dailyvid@jillstanek.com with your video suggestions.
Feb.24, 2014 12:00 pm |
Video of the day |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
We have been married for over 26 years. We did cohabit for a few years prior to engagement and marriage.
We recognized that this was a sinful habit, but in our youth we did not consider it much. The culture didn’t seem to care, so why should we?
In hindsight, we realize that we did a lot of damage to our marital relationship. It was more difficult to respect the marriage covenant, since nothing much changed after the wedding. It was a lot harder to weld the one-flesh bond after marriage. We might not have even discerned a life together if we had not been blinded by that pretense of unity before we were engaged.
Personally, I think that the habit pre-marital sex with numerous partners brings a higher risk of divorce than a faithful cohabiting with a spouse. But sleeping around is what generally leads to moving in, so it is hard to measure by statistics.
It depends on the length of the co-habitation imo. The longer the co-habitation, the better odds for the marriage and conversely, the shorter the co-habitation, the odds not so good for a long-lasting marriage. At the end of the day, however, quality wins over quantity hands down…
I think that more problematic are dating and engagement arrangements that go on and on and on with no end in sight….
“Personally, I think that the habit pre-marital sex with numerous partners brings a higher risk of divorce than a faithful cohabiting with a spouse. But sleeping around is what generally leads to moving in, so it is hard to measure by statistics. ”
Yeah, this. It’s a correlation, meaning cohabiting is correlated with higher divorce rates but there could be numerous other factors. One big one I see is that those who don’t cohabit in serious relationships are probably more likely than not to be religious, and the same religions that are opposed to cohabitation are opposed to divorce. And, like you’ve pointed out, those who engage in cohabitation might more likely be involved in having more sex partners than those who don’t. There could be numerous things going on here, not cohabitation = higher divorce rates.
Yes I have. I was like Del. My parents divorced and neither ever remarried. My dad had a nurse companion for a while and she was friendly. My mother had quite a few boyfriends and they either broke up or died. My mom is now 85 and sadly in a TN nursing home because of dementia. I want to go get her as ive just found out this shocking news but I shacked up with a man for 10 yrs shunning marriage. We had 2 kids. Then I shacked up again for 3 years and had a daughter. Then I wondered what marriage would be like so I had a son from my marriage. For the first time in my life I felt complete.
Ze solution iz obvious, do not move from cohabitation to marriage.
Isn’t the divorce rate lower in the ‘liberal’ states?
Who will take responsibility if there is a rash of gay divorces down the track given that gay couples have been forced to cohabit before being able to wed?
My mom once said Marriage was just a piece of paper. I bought that and it stuck but now growing into morals I see it isnt. Although I do have a Christian friend who divorced after 13 years and she says shes happy. But I refused to divorce my husband no matter what our issues. I was widowed and I am now remarried.
I dont believe in gay marriage. Its in their own minds and will never ever be blessed by God.
I know 2 gay men who have been a couple for about 25 years. They dont want to get married. Good!!
And I don’t believe in god, but I’m not trying to stop you from doing so :-)
The folks who say “Marriage is just a piece of paper” are able to say, “Let’s give gay couples a piece of paper.”
But that is not relevant to this thread. We are discussing the things that disrupt a couple’s ability to forge a life-long, life-giving covenant.
The triad of premarital sexual activity, premarital cohabitation, and using contraception are correlated with the triad of unplanned pregnancies, abortions and divorces.
Hi Del..i no longer see it that way. My husband and i did not have sex before marriage and when we did it was love not sex..huge difference.
Del since you usually ask me for an update..my son plays with Amanda Berrys daughter. She is now 7!
I will tell you guys her name is Jocelyn Jade
And yet it’s none of American Family Association or anyone else’s business.
Why are Christian control freaks such petty morons?
Bryan Fisher needs to make money, doesn’t he? And, he and William Donohue should both seek help.
Why are you even here then, Merit ?
Not PC but “The Ring Makes All the Difference” by Glen T. Stanton gives excellent well-researched documentation with extensive works cited that backs this up. His other book Why Marriage Matters” gives great research as well.
Because it isn’t PC, many will dismiss the research, (it’s ok the proof is in the pudding). For so many of today’s generation, they have never seen a healthy, committed marriage their assumption is that taking a “test-drive” of engaging in premarital sex and cohabiting before marriage will result in avoiding divorce but that is a myth. Just the opposite is true.
Cohabitation has led to more disposable, uncommitted relationships, more “friends with benefits” playing house, tremendous emotional baggage and heartbreak, skyrocketing domestic violence rates (perpetrated by male and female abusers), disposable, mutilated babies in medical waste containers when birth control and Plan B fails (which it does quite often Guttmacher Institute of PP reports that about 53% of women who abort were on some form of b/c when they got pregnant), and if you finally do get married (which the majority of cohabitors do not btw) you usually end up with a disposable marriage at least 50% or more likely to divorce. No the couple does NOT marry intending to get divorced of course but they don’t understand the unintended consequences of “shacking up’ which actually should be called “practicing being divorced” because you are practicing being uncommitted. “The way you practice is the way you play”, I think my kids had a coach who used to say that. The cycle of divorce, premarital sex, cohabitation can be broken but I believe there must be a moral and spiritual revolution throughout the nation for this to occur. I am praying that the cycle will be broken and I am working with teens and parents (even single parents or those raised by single parents can break this cycle like my wonderful husband). There is hope and there are young people who are not living together before marriage.
Sin? No.
Thomas R: It depends on the length of the co-habitation imo. The longer the co-habitation, the better odds for the marriage and conversely, the shorter the co-habitation, the odds not so good for a long-lasting marriage.
I would think that too, but the whole “cohabitation increases divorce odds” is counter-intuitive in the first place, so I’m not sure, there, TR.
Whether or not marriage is seen as “a piece of paper,” it all comes down to how the people feel about each other and themselves. I liked my wife-to-be a lot, before I’d even seen her or a picture of her – we met online, and it’s rather the reverse of offline where you first see the person then get to know them.
We lived together for three years minus one day, before we got married, and it was good before and after.
I don’t think cohabitation itself leads to divorce. I think couples who are willing to cohabitate are the same couples who are open to the idea of divorce, where couples who are opposed to cohabitation because of religious beliefs are just as opposed to divorce. Its simply a difference in overall belief systems.
My husband and I lived together for 3 years before we got engaged. A bunch of regular posters on this blog at that time (Hisman, Jasper in particular) among others, called me a slut, called me easy, told me I didn’t respect myself, told me he would never marry me, that he was using me for sex, that didn’t actually honor me or cherish me or love me, that our relationship was not based on love, etc, etc, etc.
Ohhhh I get such a giggle now thinking back on all of that nonsense!!! As it turns out, my grandmother gave him her mother’s (my great grandmothers) engagement ring upon finding out she had terminal cancer. He proposed to me, on his knee, in the parking lot of the hospice, after asking my parents permission – because he knew me well enough to know I’d rather be able to tell my grandmother while she was still lucid than say I had an elaborate proposal.
I didn’t want to get married while I was in the middle of graduate school, so we had a long engagement (living together for another year and a half) before we got married.
Happily married. Planning to try for a baby this fall. So. Oh please. We lived together with the love, support, and advice of BOTH sets of parents, both of whom who have been married for 35+ years. Living in sin my butt.
“A bunch of regular posters on this blog at that time (Hisman, Jasper in particular) among others, called me a slut, called me easy, told me I didn’t respect myself, told me he would never marry me, that he was using me for sex, that didn’t actually honor me or cherish me or love me, that our relationship was not based on love, etc, etc, etc.
Ohhhh I get such a giggle now thinking back on all of that nonsense!!! ”
I am so genuinely sorry that people would talk to you like that (and with the posters you’ve mentioned it doesn’t surprise me, Jasper has some choice names for me lol).
My ex and I didn’t move into together or even have sex before we were married, and we are now divorced. Rather short marriage too. Like I said, there are multiple factors in whether a marriage survives or not. It’s not so simple as “do everything *right* and your marriage will be perfect”.
“And yet it’s none of American Family Association or anyone else’s business.”
I do agree people will make their own choices and judging them is pretty pointless, but divorce has been shown to have comparatively outcomes for kids involved in general, even when you really really try to get along with your ex as best you can. Family stability is an important factor in raising kids into stable adults, and it’s not deniable it affects society as a whole when so many marriages fail and so many kids get screwed over and put in unstable environments (especially since many men have a nasty habit of walking out and barely looking back when they leave/get left). So it’s not just personal choices here, it affects everyone especially small children.
But of course staying together when your marriage is toxic and miserable or even abusive is just as bad for kids, so Idk. I do think people seem to think of marriage as some type of panacea that cures all social ills, which isn’t remotely true. I mean my parents were married over thirty years before my father died and them staying together did exactly zero people any good (besides him, maybe). And my divorce was certainly the better choice out of “crap” and “slightly less crap”. So I don’t know. I think the divorce rate is a problem, for kids especially but I’m not sure what can be done about it.
*comparitively poor outcomes, in my last comment. I accidentally a word lol.
^ You touch on one of the BIGGEST points that seems to sail right over most people’s heads. Divorce isn’t the big problem. Ending a miserable, unhealthy, loveless marriage is NOT a bad thing. Getting married too quickly or to the wrong person – for a whole host of reasons – is the mistake. Realizing that error and splitting up, opening up the opportunity for a healthy loving relationship is a GOOD thing. I mean, my dad got married at 19 and divorced at 22. It was a youthful mistake. If he stayed in that marriage just for the sake of staying married, he, his ex wife, and my brother would have been miserable people. Instead, he met my mom, his ex wife remarried too, and my brother was raised by happily married parents – just not to each other.
That being said, my generation is notorious for feeling that we deserve instant and permanent happiness – and I think that does create unrealistic expectations of marriage, and several of my peers have had affairs or various issues I think are caused by that mindset.
(but what would happen if we were all as concerned about the notions of what marriage means to young straight couples as we were concerned about gay folks having the right to be married, I wonder, hehe)
“I mean, my dad got married at 19 and divorced at 22. It was a youthful mistake. If he stayed in that marriage just for the sake of staying married, he, his ex wife, and my brother would have been miserable people. Instead, he met my mom, his ex wife remarried too, and my brother was raised by happily married parents – just not to each other. ”
Lol I got married at 19 and divorced at 24. There wasn’t another option. If I had married older and wiser I’d probably still be married, I really do take marriage seriously especially with kids involved. I agree a lot with the second part of your comment. I know a lot of people around my age who seem to have some Disney fairy tale idea of life and how all your dreams should always come true and he/she has to be absolutely perfect in every way or you’re just walking out and it’s rather ridiculous. The instant gratification thing and incredibly unrealistic expectations does seem to be causing issues.
Maybe Disney movies have ruined everyone under forty? Lol.
Yeah I agree. Though Disney princes never really did it for me. I was ruined by those high school movies where the dorky awkward girl gets contacts and a nice hair cut, and then the hottest guy in school who also happens to be really smart and kind falls for her and they live happily ever after. This was not my experience :P
I am sorry that you were called names Amanda and maligned by some which was not Christ-like. I am truly happy that you beat the odds regarding your marriage preceded by cohabitation and pray that your marriage will continue as I do not want anyone’s marriage to fail. I am assuming that you do not believe premarital sex or cohabitation is “a sin” and you feel it has not harmed you or your marriage? You are indeed entitled to your opinion and your belief. Although your families advised you to cohabit before marriage, those with a traditional faith-based worldview would consider this ill advised and “sinful”. The tenets of the major world religions consider sex outside of marriage unlawful (yes, I know that there are liberal denominations who endorse a variety of sexual choices and lifestyles).
Indeed choices do have consequences and I think we are dealing with many of those consequences today, especially the devastating consequences to children of unstable, uncommitted, disposable, marriages or single parent homes.
As cohabitation rates continue to rise and it become more acceptable and more PC, marriage rates will continue to drop. As “marriage” becomes “unnecessary” it will lose it’s significance which will affect every indicator of the health and wellbeing of women, men, children, families, and the nation. I understand that the marriage rates have plummeted and out of wedlock birth rates have skyrocketed to about 60% in some countries which have went down the ” marriage” road. Those who believe marriage no longer should be considered a God-ordained covenant and a sacrament probably will become angry and malign what Mike McManus said in this radio interview (which sadly was what you said you experienced on this blog) or they will laugh and ridicule him for his “antiquated” moral standard regarding sex before marriage..
Haha Amanda, I only mention Disney movies because I watched Beauty and the Beast and Little Mermaid with my kids (Disney movies are a big thing in my house lol) and I was thinking about the stories and didn’t like the messages. When they are older I’ll have to explain you can’t take entertainment at face value. I mean, the former is “hey you know that total jerk who treats you like garbage, girls? Well, hang around and he’ll change! You just have to stick it out!”. And the second is “It’s totally cool to give up your family and friends and entire life for True Love ™, there’s no way that will go wrong. Even if you barely know the person, love is all you need!”. Yeah, we’re going back to Emperor’s New Groove (moral: Don’t be a jerk, it goes badly for you) and Robin Hood (moral: unethical authority is okay to oppose). Haha.
I meant to say “I understand that the marriage rates have plummeted and out of wedlock birth rates have skyrocketed to 60% in some countries which have went down the “we don’t need marriage” road”.
““I understand that the marriage rates have plummeted and out of wedlock birth rates have skyrocketed to 60% in some countries which have went down the “we don’t need marriage” road”. ”
Well yeah, it would stand to reason that cultures who don’t consider marriage important would have a lot of unwed births and a low marriage rate, that’s consistent. I’m more worried about their outcomes though. What is their teen pregnancy rate, juvenile crime rate, teen and young adult drug abuse rate, etc, etc? The things that effect children negatively are manifested in things like that and I think that’s a better measure of whether a society is doing poorly in regards to raising children in stable homes than simply looking at marriage rates and unwed births.
“Indeed choices do have consequences and I think we are dealing with many of those consequences today, especially the devastating consequences to children of unstable, uncommitted, disposable, marriages or single parent homes.”
So I don’t actually disagree with you there, L, in regards to the problems with disposable marriage and single parenthood. Actually, I agree completely. But I don’t think its fair to tie cohabitation in to that. We talked when we got serious about this stuff – made sure we had similar views on marriage, that we both wanted kids, and when. It was because we took it that seriously that we spent a few years making absolutely sure that through all of the changes individuals go through over the course of 4 years, we were still on the same page. If we hadn’t been, we would have split before there was a marriage or a child to damage.
Its a fallacy to equate cohabitation with the problems caused by not honoring what marriage is and the importance of marriage in parenting.
Hahaha @ Deluded. You forgot “if a hot guy kills a dragon for you, just marry him. Don’t even bother making sure you have a SINGLE thing in common. Kills dragons? Check. Looks good? Check. MARRIED. BOOM. True Love. The End. :D
Oh Amanda I remember you. Werent you the med student or so you told us? I find it hard to believe that jasper or hisman called you that and BTW weren’t you one of the people mocking hisman saying he had a gay mans screen name? Ive been here since 2006 and if you are the same girl I also remember a lot of us saying you couldn’t keep your stories straight.
You were in with Rae and that group always mocking and very PC.
And is this the Amanda who was pictured in her own office posing as a med student? If so way to try to get sympathy. Youve done your fair share of name calling. BTW how is med school?
I’m of two minds about it. I think that values correlation is a pretty reasonable factor in this but I also believe that cohabitation, feeling like a trial/less-serious step than marriage, can allow for less intentional arrangements, which can mean less prior thoughtful decision-making and discernment. Like, fewer people will get married without fully discussing their future and their hopes for it than will cohabit.
I have had two real relationships in my life, and I lived with both men. But the intent we insisted on, going into the cohabiting arrangement, was entirely different. In the first relationship, we moved in together because “it made sense.” We liked each other – loved each other – and the money made sense, so why not take the next step? See how it went, how we got along? etc. the usual reasons. We lived together for several years, and he did propose to me, but I did not think it was a good idea by then, so I used the proposal as a crossroads to begin the long and painful task of dismantling the life we’d so often unintentionally built together. We parted ways not too long after and are still wonderful friends, though there is definitely a lot of sadness and regret and pain in our relationship with each other even through the compassion and care we still feel for each other.
Early in my second (current) relationship, I told my partner that I was not interested in ‘sliding into cohabitation’ again. I said that I would probably never cohabit with anyone unless it was part of a very intentional, pre-emptively discussed life plan. Not “let’s see how this goes,” but basically “we are getting married.” I did this not for religious reasons but rather because I had firsthand experience with my own self and with how easy it was to leave the hard conversations or decisions for “later” when you “can.” To approach every problem with the mental safety-check that you don’t need to seriously consider how much it would interfere to have it constantly in your life, because…well, we can think about that later, why ruin a nice day, don’t want to scare him off. etc. I wanted all of those conversations to precede each step in the relationship, the second time around – and if that was too heavy for a guy, then he wasn’t the guy for me. I wanted to decide intentionally on my future, not just slide into it.
As most people here know, my partner is divorced with kids, so it was an interesting dynamic. He was understandably not necessarily interested in jumping back into marriage, but he was also soothed and reassured by the idea of a very intentional, explicitly discussed relationship. For one thing, with kids, he was certainly not interested in the coy games of certain relationships. But for another, although he had not cohabited before marriage, he had felt as though he slid into marriage anyway, since it’s “just what you do” after a certain amount of time together – very similar to how many people who cohabit and then marry (and then divorce) can feel. And he regretted that. When I spoke of my own experiences, he could see how they would be true, because he had felt them even in a non-cohabiting “slid into it” relationship. He appreciated and respected that I did not want there to be any coyness or hesitance about our intentions for each other and expectations of each other. I know that people here may disagree with us living together prior to the marriage anyway and I am okay with that but I do not have any concerns for me, for him, or for the kids. The reality is, based on my own experience, I do see a non-religious factor in the correlation between cohabitation and divorce, and I have gone to some pretty great lengths to address it in my own life.
This NY Times article from a couple years ago is an interesting read: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/opinion/sunday/the-downside-of-cohabiting-before-marriage.html?pagewanted=all It examines the assertion that the correlation between cohabitation and divorce is, well, all correlation, and questions it. There’s a lot it touches on, but one of the key points for me that it mentions is that couples tend to have lower requirements, standards, or expectations for a live-in boyfriend or girlfriend than a spouse. I don’t think that’s a conscious thing but I do think it’s understandable: if the decision to cohabit is not part of an explicitly discussed lifelong arrangement, then of course you will overlook some things that might otherwise be deal-breakers, or not even think too hard about what those might be in the first place. That is what I did the first time around and what I was adamant about not doing the second time.
Of course, this does not mean that everyone who cohabits will divorce! Not even close. Most of my friends these days live together prior to marriage – even my very religious friend, who was a virgin until her wedding night. I just think it’s a bit easy to say “correlation not causation” and leave it at that. I think there are grayer areas than just correlation VERSUS causation. Had my first boyfriend and I considered marriage rather than cohabitation, I honestly might have said yes – I loved him very much and was, looking back, so very young – or I might have balked and said no. But I actually do think that if we’d gotten married, we probably would have stayed together. Because I think that if we’d gotten married, it would have involved dealing with the tough questions and potential deal-breakers that neither of us wanted to waste such a nice time thinking about so early on in things – and if we had found a way to work them out we probably would have been pretty good together. Instead, we never examined them, because it was always something for later on, for a more serious day – I didn’t REALLY need to think about that now, just to move in together; and so they never got resolved, and then they couldn’t get resolved, and then it was over. Or we might have said no to the whole thing, and moved on a lot earlier. I don’t regret my relationship with him because he is a wonderful person who I am very lucky to have in my life, and because I would not have come to any of these conclusions or mental self-examinations without the whole experience – but I do wish we hadn’t hurt each other so much.
Thanks heather for exposing who “Amanda” is, that explains a lot. Thank you so much for remembering her. It is really illuminating, I had forgotten about her past posts on Jill’s blog.
Yep!!! Like I said not PC. Read the extensive research “The Ring Makes All the Difference” and Why Marriage Matters” by Stanton . “The Case for Marriage” Maggie Gallagher and Linda Waite. Everybody’s got their “reasons” especially in an immoral, post-Christian era. I have even talked to oldies like myself who are “shacking up” saying “I have my “reasons”, I don’t want to mess up my pension benefits ” so now we explicitly disobey God’s instructions regarding sex outside of marriage because we “have our reasons”. I guarantee you that God had his “reasons”. He always gives us boundaries for our benefit and if someone is a true Christ-follower they try to obey Him because they love him as their Savior and Lord. Non-believers not so much, they make up their own rules.
Jesus told the woman at the well (paraphrase of John 4: 7-29) “Go, call your husband and bring him here”. She answered “I have no husband”. Jesus answered “You have rightly said ”I have no husband”. You have had five husbands and the man you are with now is NOT YOUR HUSBAND”. …She left her waterpot went into the city and said “Come see a man who told me all things that I ever did, is this not the Christ?”. Hmmmm. Wonder why Jesus didn’t just endorse her lifestyle? If it was fine, why did he even bother to bring it up? I am sure she had her “reasons” for shacking up as well. Jesus had his “reasons” for why he ”needed to go through Samaria”. I believe it is an old African proverb that goes “Never tear down a fence until you know why it was put up”. Choices have consequences and “obedience is better than sacrifice”. “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord”. I do find it interesting that so many prolifers who are supposed to stand for “the sanctity of life” no longer stand for ”the sanctity of marriage”, don’t defend it when the vast majority of abortions are the results of sex outside of marriage. Go figure. But Jesus said “good will be called evil and evil good” .
No problem pro lifer L I remember her attitude. PC and she and a few of the others were quick to say that his man…meaning Christ or Gods man sounded homosexual. Dont play the victim Amanda. You were a bully last time you were here.
And I like jasper hes my pal but he gets fed up like I do with pro deathers. Hey not all of us pro lifers are sweethearts. Especially when I stand in front of a clinic and someone gets in my face. I will let them have it as you have no right to disrespect me!
Hi heather I appreciate you taking a strong stand in front of abortion clinic.
How are you and your new husband doing? I pray you are doing well. I wish you God’s best.
I lol every time I think about your testimonial about your mother’s friend who mentored you when you came to the Lord being such a blunt no-nonsense person. She sounds like a real gem and a person who “speaks the truth in love”. I love people like her and I bet we would get along famously.
God bless you heather.
“And I like jasper hes my pal but he gets fed up like I do with pro deathers. ”
Ha. I’m not a pro-choicer but Jasper has called me some rather vicious slurs on a few occasions. I don’t really care what he calls me, but it doesn’t seem remotely out the of realm of possibility he’d call Amanda names as well. He’s an unpleasant person, seems to be very unhappy.
But if Amanda did imply that Hisman is gay or whatever because of his name I think that’s wrong. And I’m really begging people to please stop using male same sex attraction as an insult or a way to make straight men uncomfortable. It contributes to the view of gay and bi men being wrong as people imo.
Haha no heather, that’s definitely not me. I’m a speech pathologist, previously a public health educator, and I’ve certainly never posted a picture of myself to you guys. Not sure who you are confusing me with but I’m sure Nick will be happy to clarify that I’m not who ever you are “exposing” me to be. But thanks for being so kind :P
And there’s no way in hell, on my worst day, that I’d use gay as a pejorative term – there’s actually no issue I care about more strongly. Trying to remember who you may have confused me with now.
Sorry Amanda for the misidentification.
Ty pL Laura…she was the best. So Amanda you were here before? Im sorry I only remember one pc Amanda who told a lot of tall tales. Generally saying she was a pre med student. And yes Deluded at one time we had a group of pc females here who would joke about Hismans screen name saying ” oh you mean Gods man? We thought..yanno..his man like a boyfriend or a homosexual. One was that Amanda character Id mentioned. Sorry Amanda.
No worries. I know there were a lot more heated arguments back then, I wouldn’t claim to have been a saint, but certainly not what I’m being accused of. I do remember some of those posts though actually.
Anyways, L, back to my post from last night – do you agree that the problems with single parenting and disposable marriage don’t necessarily connect to cohabitating with the intent to marry? (ie not couples who choose to live together INSTEAD of marrying)?
Hmmmm but ive never known jasper or hisman to call a woman a slut. Has it been too long to pull it up? When was it said approx?
Amanda: You touch on one of the BIGGEST points that seems to sail right over most people’s heads. Divorce isn’t the big problem. Ending a miserable, unhealthy, loveless marriage is NOT a bad thing. Getting married too quickly or to the wrong person – for a whole host of reasons – is the mistake. Realizing that error and splitting up, opening up the opportunity for a healthy loving relationship is a GOOD thing.
Excellent post, Amanda. There are many things to think about here, and you also made the good point about different belief systems, i.e. the cohabitating cohort and the non-cohabitating cohort are not subgroupings of the same set, so it’s not logical to directly compare them and assume certain causalities.
Screening out bad marriages is indeed a good thing, and I think the flipside of what you said is that “more religious” people (those who don’t cohabit) will have a higher incidence of unhappy marriages that they stay in due to their belief systems.
Hisman especially leads women to Christ and a bunch of anti choicers ganged up on his because of his love for God and his moniker. So you remember that? That was a while ago. Did you use a different moniker?
Heather – it was around the time you are referencing – 5 years ago? I definitely took part in plenty of heated discussions, but you’ve just confused me with another poster from that time. I actually think I remember the med student thing, but that was definitely not me. :) Jasper definitely called me a slut and said i was easy. He apologized a few years later thru a Facebook friend.
“He apologized a few years later thru a Facebook friend. ”
Well that was good of him at least.
Heather, I think I used “mandakate” back then but I don’t remember for sure – was a long time ago!
Yeah i started posting in 2006 and this Amanda was a fake med student…or so we were all pretty sure. She was also PC and a pathological liar. Okay air cleared.
Lol PL Laura omg she was a hoot!
Pl L the new marriage is going well. The anniversary of my other husbands death is feb 28. It will be a year. Its been the toughest year of my life.
“The way you practice is the way you play”
Love this and am gonna use it in my religious ed class — lots of teen student-athletes attend. Our class attendance has been increasing each year. Teens are ready to hear adults talk about what most teens already know deep down to be right and true. Many of them have figured out the hook-up/shack-up culture by watching their parents or older relatives go through the garbage disposal.
Amanda nope the research doesn’t bear that out. You should read the books I have recommended if you really want to know. Lots of documentation from major journals, publications, census data,
From The Ring Makes All the Difference by Stanton
“The average marriage preceded by cohabitation faces a 65% greater likelihood of divorce. and marriages not preceded by cohabitation have a risk of well below the 40% likelihood for the average couple.
Over 50% of cohabiting unions in the US whether or not they are eventually legalized by marriage, end in separation within 5 years compared to roughly 20% of marriages with no history of cohabitation” (The Relative Stability of Cohabiting and Marital Unions for Children” Population Research and Policy Review 23 (2004)
“Couples who cohabit before their engagement show the highest risk for relationship distress before marriage and this risk is not likely to diminish after marriage.
What about couples who cohabit between formal engagement and the wedding? Studies find while this type of cohabitation is associated with poorer relationship interaction (both before and after the wedding) but it is less harmful than pre-engagement and serial cohabitation. (Journal of Family Psychology 2004). So that is less risky which I can agree with you about.
Research shows that women usually assume cohabitation is going to lead to marriage but men don’t usually assume it going to lead to marriage. Excellent chapter in The Ring Makes All the Difference “Cohabitation: The Relationship on the Guys Terms”
“Cohabiting men are less interested in marriage and if they do marry they become different kinds of husbands” (The Ring Makes All the Difference- relating a Univ. of Denver study titled “Maybe I Do” by 3 leading scholars in the Journal of Family Issues.
Have to go now. The old “antiquated” Bible and the old nursery rhyme “first comes, love them comes marriage…. not PC but still a foundational truth. Doesn’t mean people are not going to fail and have problems following Biblical principles and even if they waited that they will never divorce but odds are in their favor by saving sex for marriage and not living together before marriage. I am so grateful that God’s love and amazing grace can make our mistakes into miracles even when we mess up. He is a God of reconciliation and restoration.
PL: “The average marriage preceded by cohabitation faces a 65% greater likelihood of divorce. and marriages not preceded by cohabitation have a risk of well below the 40% likelihood for the average couple.
If so, you are looking after-the-fact and it really does not mean like it should if you mean to imply that “people who don’t live together prior to marriage get more divorced more often.”
But that’s a correlation, with no evidence of causation. Those stats don’t contradict my original point, which was that going in to marriage, a couple who lived together prior is less likely to have a moral or religious objection to divorce. It would need to be broken down differently to actually prove cause – belief systems, perception of marriage and divorce, prior marriages, number of partners lived with, etc. because the stats on divorce are misleading – a person with one failed marriage is far more likely to have a second or third failed marriage, which skews the stats to make it appear that more people are getting divorced than actually are.
Nope. You need to read the books. It ‘s ok Amanda your going to justify doing what you want. Like I tell my kids who are grown up “God gave you a free will, you can do what you want but there are consequences.”. You can blow it off if you want. Actually Stanton and Gallagher’s book covered all of your arguments looking at research that deal with different demographics, factors, etc. Some of the researchers set out to prove “shacking up ” was a good idea and couldn’t prove it because the truth is the opposite. They took those things in account already in the book looking at tons of the research because of all of the skeptics and critics like you. Not PC but the truth. I doubt you’ll bother to read the books; it’s still a free country last time I checked (but BHO and AG Holder may have different plans). Got to go. God loves you and so do I.