Time author unleashes on pro-lifers while his baby is aborted
by Carder
I just walked in with my wife. We’re trying to have another kid, and you know what? One in one hundred thousand fetal demise congenital deformity. So you’re yelling at my wife for doing nothing wrong in having a nearly dead baby inside her? And that’s what you’re gonna do?…
You’re just yelling at random people and you have no idea what you’re doing to them. And you know what? It’s despicable! It is despicable!…
Because of people like you, no one wants to perform these anymore. Because you make people who are already upset on the worst day of their lives feel even worse.
So there’s really not a whole lot of places to go anymore.
~ The Daddy Files author Aaron Gouveia, confronting pro-life activists in front of the abortion facility where his unborn baby, diagnosed with Sirenomelia, was scheduled to be aborted, Time, June 26
View their interview with WBZ TV here.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Because of people like you nobody wants to perform these anymore… um no they keep getting themselves into trouble so they are closing their doors.
I understand there was something wrong with his baby but what about the majority who are aborting a healthy baby? The worst day of their lives? Not for some. Some arent fazed. What were people screaming? I think Time is a boring liberal rag mag. Although maybe ppl were screaming to be fair. And why is it the worst day of their lives if its not a human? I wouldnt consider a root canal the worst day of my life. He sounds like hes still in a lot of pain over the loss of his child…understandable but if other women have an abortion they could die or suffer a lifetime of emotional problems. Thats why were there.
Eh ive just read an article on this blowhard and parenting stating he wishes he could just skip the newborn phase. He states the staying up all night diaper s*itting bottle feeding. Said wish he could hit the fast forward button and pass up preschool. His son came home crying one day from school because hed already taught him it was okay for a man to marry a man and a woman a woman.
From your own rules above:
“DO:
Be civil and considerate
Criticize ideas, not people
Don’t
Do not violate another’s privacy.”
Think maybe you ought to live by your own rules? Where do you get off publishing a picture of his kids in here? Is your beef with them, too?
As a father to a child who had one of these nearly always fatal congenital conditions, you do not get to judge our actions until you’ve walked in our shoes.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
You do not have permission to steal photos that aren’t yours. And you have zero class if you’d drag my kids into this just because you disagree with me. Take the photo of my family down immediately.
Pro-lifers shouting has nothing to do with doctors who don’t want to perform abortions anymore, it’s more to do with them realizing what abortion actually does to little human beings and to do with being unwilling (or unable) to meet the basic medical standards any surgical procedure should adhere to.
And however hard the situation might be for the parents who are expecting a baby with severe health problems, I always admire those who make a decision to allow the baby to come into this world and feel loved, embraced and cared for for however short a period of time the baby has. Abortion is a “out of sight – out of mind” kind of an “escape” – if the baby is ripped apart in the womb and you never get so see it, you can pretend it never happened, right?
Two observations: Heather I hope you’re not representative of the so called christians that follow this site. I mean I’m sure some translation of the bible has Jesus calling people blowhards, but it just feels wrong. Also where did the Daddy Files guy say he didn’t think his dying child wasn’t human? Eh the tolerance of Christians, there’s just no hypocrisy like it.
Jill, where did you get that picture? Did you have permission to use it? Aside from that, using a picture of his kids on something like this kind of makes you as evil and sadistic as you claim pro-choicers are, doesn’t it? The dude wrote it so he’s fair game, trash him till the rapture if you want, but using his kids is low ball amateur hour.
How inappropriate of you to use a picture of minors AGAINST parent consent on your site. It is one thing to criticize an article and state your opposing opinions, but bringing someone’s children into it is absolutely disgusting and shows your true personality. Take down the photo of the babies, they have no play in this !
“I mean I’m sure some translation of the bible has Jesus calling people blowhards…”
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You serpents, you brood of vipers…”
– Matthew 23: 29a, 33a (ESV)
Francis–if he didn’t think his child wasn’t human are you then arguing that this guy knew his child was human but felt it was okay to kill said human child anyways? Wow. I hope not. I hope he was blindly believing his child was not human. The thought that parents could know that their child was a living human being and yet feel it is acceptable to kill that living human child for any myriad of reasons–not being healthy enough, not being the right gender, having the wrong mom/dad, having an older sibling too close in age, etc… is just terrifying. What do you do with a society of people that can acknowledge the humanity of another and yet kill that person anyways?
“nearly dead baby”. I’m sure it will be totes okay with police if you ever stumble upon a car accident and proceed to stab all the occupants of the vehicles and then explain to police they were “nearly dead” so it wasn’t murder.
The fact is your baby was ALIVE. “Nearly dead” means still ALIVE. “Nearly dead” is something you tell yourself to assuage your guilty conscience. You were that baby’s DADDY and you FAILED. You failed big time. You did not protect your child. You allowed your child to be killed unnaturally and prematurely. You stole life from your child that was not yours to steal.
It is not okay to kill sick and disabled children. Period. I don’t need to walk in their shoes to know KILLING the sick or disabled is not an acceptable or moral way to solve problems.
“Criticize ideas, not people.”
Do you abide by your commenting rules? Publishing a picture you stole from another website of a man and his family is wrong but it is made worse when you violate your rule of criticizing ideas and not people.
No swearing or slandering of others.
I thought you said slandering others is wrong.
We could go on but something tells me that you don’t believe hypocrisy applies to you.
You are a vile woman for using a picture of this man’s innocent children in your argument against him. You have your beliefs, he has is. End of story. You were not given permission to use this photo. How about you try to show an ounce of class and take it down.
You are a disgusting troll. Fine, don’t like the man, have a problem with his beliefs? That is your right. But to post pictures of his children on your sick website just proves how classless and low you “despicable” people will go with your pathetic agenda.
“Eh ive just read an article on this blowhard and parenting stating he wishes he could just skip the newborn phase. He states the staying up all night diaper s*itting bottle feeding. Said wish he could hit the fast forward button and pass up preschool.”
These seem like pretty fair and honest admissions to me, heather. My own mother confessed to me a few years ago that she struggled greatly to enjoy the infancy of each of her children, and that at times she only got through the first year of her youngest kid because by then the oldest was 5 and she had a glimpse of how awesomely things would eventually turn out. I have to say, having done the terrible 3’s, I would gladly just skip over them with future kids and head right to 4. Of course, I can’t, and that’s not what life is about, and kids are way, way better and more joy-inducing overall than the depths you may feel on your worst, lowest day; but there is nothing to be ashamed of in not loving EVERY SINGLE MINUTE (or day, or week, or month) of parenthood. The early years can be very hard and it is alienating and isolating to act like there is something wrong with people who admit that.
Sydney, I can’t claim to know all the facts, only what I read. But from what I understand the child was dying and would either not make it to birth or the child would die immediately after being delivered. In other words they would be delivering a dead child.
This doesn’t strike me as a a couple getting rid of an inconvenient child.
Totes? No idea what that means.
LOL! It’s amazing how the other side completely and totally ignores the fact that an innocent (even if very sick) human baby was murdered, but “oh the horror” there’s a photograph of his siblings on the website!!! That must be the worst kind of painful torture and abuse there is in the world…. Oh wait… :D
Eric so in your analogy Heather is Jesus and the Daddy Files couple are money changers and Pharisees? Yeah, not feeling it. Try again. This time try the spirit of the comment and not the jot and tittle of it.
Agreed Vita. All this faux outrage over a picture he uses publicly himself, but not an iota of concern for the child he killed. The depravity and unsoundness of the pro-abortion mind never ceases to astound me.
“Francis Linardo says:
June 30, 2014 at 10:39 am
Sydney, I can’t claim to know all the facts, only what I read. But from what I understand the child was dying and would either not make it to birth or the child would die immediately after being delivered. In other words they would be delivering a dead child.”
So if you were terminally ill and would die soon anyway, you’re ok with someone coming and injecting your heart with a poison to stop it beating, or snipping your spinal cord with the scissors, right? I mean you would be dead soon anyway, why wait?
Ableism: that noble belief that the disabled would not want the span of their own lives, however limited, because the able know better. Daddy, save some of your outrage for the doctor(s) that urged you to abort your still living child at a second rate facility.
I think Time is a boring liberal rag mag.
I am not going to step into this fray, but I agree with you on that one.
Lol look at the trolls. Fransis how do you know im not Jewish. Be very careful with assuming. And no I dont respect Time magazine and I will NOT take back what Ive said. Deal with it!
Heather is Jesus? Arent you funny. Thought it might be Sarah Silverman for a minute there with Jesus is magic. Stop mocking Christ because many dont approve of that here! Oh and go to the site Cemetery of Choice and see how many women are dead because of legal abortions. A 22 year old just died at Preterm in Cleveland OH while having an abortion at 22 weeks. Happened in March of 2014. Did you know? Did you care? If not why not?
Sydney I cant give you a thumb up but that was a great post!
Having a child killed in utero- Okay.
Posting a picture of that child’s family on an internet webpage – O MI GOSH SO FREAKIN’ TERRIBAD YOU SHOULD GO TO JAIL NAO!!!
What an insane world.
Xalasie…missed you!!!
And Xalasie Ive noticed that nobody can come back to explain why a healthy 22 year old Lakisha Wilson had a 22 week healthy pregnancy. 2 abortion clinics turned her down so she came to Cleveland and Preterm attempted it. She died on that abortion table after CPR had been started. Im a nurse. Ive saved people with CPR. Was Preterm that inept? They KILLED her! Where is your outrage now? Thats why we tell people DO NOT GO IN THERE!
Here is an interesting story about Shiloh Pepin, who was born with Sirenomelia and managed to survive for ten years:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/shiloh-pepin-girl-born-rare-mermaid-condition-dies/story?id=8920709
I watched the video and I feel really sorry for all three of them. Dad, Mom, and baby. What a terrible situation. I really wish they had chosen prenatal hospice, but you can see a lot of pain and confusion from the parents there. I don’t think they deserve the condemnation coming at them. Yeah, abortion is wrong. It’s also legal and pushed socially and by the medical establishment on those who have adverse fetal diagnoses. We will change this, but I don’t think bashing on the parents is going to do that.
Deluded…i dont think he should bash on us.
?? All he said was “take the photo of my kids down”. And I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request. Unless you’re talking about how he was talking in the video, where I don’t really feel like I can judge him too harshly because of the emotional trauma he and his wife were enduring.
Excuses, excuses.
Hi X I’ve missed you, how are you?
Eh. Doing okay. Looking for a new line of work, but finding trouble matching the pay I make currently, which is pretty darned good. It’s a bit depressing.
Took a little break from the online fighting over abortion, because holding down a full-time job and keeping up with two kids was hard enough. :P
I’m glad you’re doing well X, I really have missed you. You abandoned me! ;) I’m glad you took a break though, and hope the kids are doing great.
It’s also legal and pushed socially and by the medical establishment on those who have adverse fetal diagnoses.
Yes, you’re right, but at the end of the day these parents made the decision. We all have a free will.
“…no one wants to perform these anymore”.
“these” ?
You can’t even say the word, but you can have it done to your child ?
Again – i will NEVER understand the “He/she’s gonna die anyway, so we might as well kill him/her” mentality.
NEWS FLASH – We’re ALL going to die -somehow, someway – we don’t know WHEN or HOW…
Guess we should just all “off” ourselves (?)
P.S.
Doctors don’t know everything –
They don’t know FOR SURE when someone is going to die,
but you can know for sure that you’re depriving your child -AND yourselves – of whatever precious time you have when you abort him/her.
And as for “You don’t know what we’ve been through, so you can’t say anything”…
Yes…I do. I went through it during my own pregnancy, AND I am someone who was born…well…what would you say …”less than perfect”..”flawed”…”defective”.
My mother didn’t deprive me of life, though, and I didn’t deprive my child of hers.
And we’re both ALIVE and here to LOVE each other.
The guy goes to an abortion facility where pro-lifers are. He claims that they “yelled” at him and made him feel some kind of awful. He gets his face on TV and writes an article; TIME Magazine publishes it.
Good for him… Although it should be obvious that no one would need to raise her voice if there weren’t a stupid law requiring people to stay 50 feet away.
I don’t understand why he doesn’t want us to use the picture he publishes on the web, the one with his sons. It makes him seem human and likable… Not just some guy who got paid for telling a story about killing his sick kid.
=================================
I have a part-time job, putting out the magazines at grocery stores and drugstores. I put the TIME Magazine down on a middle shelf, on the back row. Nobody buys it anyway, and with good reason. I occasionally skim some articles, and it’s always trash-for-news — like this.
Seriously? TIME wanted to do a human-perspective story on the SCOTUS overturn of that Massachusetts violation of free speech, and they came up with this guy?!!? Why not a mother whose life and child were saved by the kind and helpful intervention of a sidewalk counsellor and a Pregnancy Care Center?
Seems a non-viable, non-feeling, non-thinking fetus is considered more valuable and more important than how the extended suffering, heartbreak and impending loss would impact on an entire family. Yup.
Yea Del. Whenever I see time magazine in a doctors office I start looking for something else. Its always Obama worship or liberal nuttiness. Do you think Time would ever cover women who have died having a safe legal abortion? Nah. How about perverted abortionists who rape women? Women who are maimed an cant ever have children? Never. And no thats not pretend land because Ive seen it happen and Ik women who are sterile because they chose one lil old abortion!!
A few weeks ago, TIME did a cover story on the technology advances in saving premature children.
I scanned the article to make sure that it wasn’t about ‘spending too much money to save worthless little fetuses’ — and when it checked out as life-affirming, it got a spot on the front slot.
Still didn’t sell. No one buys TIME Magazine. But I was glad to put images of young miracles on the front racks of my grocery stores.
When my children were in elementary school they had to read Time for Kids as part of the curriculum. Yuk.
Reality, you strike me as non thinking and non feeling about 98%of the time, and I’d fight for your right to be and stay alive.
Interesting that you come to such a conclusion simply because someone doesn’t subscribe to the same view as you or hold your beliefs Courtnay. Says so much.
Our ability to think tells us that it is the family who have all the feelings in this matter. The fetus has none. Thoughts and feelings?
“technology advances in saving premature children” – not ‘miracles’ then.
Wow, some of you have sunk to a pretty unbelievable low with this one… yikes.
“Reality, you strike me as non thinking and non feeling about 98%of the time”
Only 98% of the time? When does the other 2% happen?
Also, don’t feed the troll(s) and all that.
Aren’t you getting hungry?
Nah an all new low is women whi choose to ignore women who die at the hands of abortionists yet still want this evil act legal! That is the lowest!
Whiny little children…
You post a picture of your kids online where anyone can see it and then cry about it being used when you whinge publicly about your wife’s abortion?
Grow up, little boy. I cringe to think of what your children will grow up to be with such a “father figure”.
The only reason I have a twinge of sympathy is because of your unborn child… and your whiny attitude makes that difficult to feel in the least.
Thank you Michael Maier,
No brainer 101: If you don’t want the world to discuss your business, then don’t freaking put it out there for millions of people to read!
Someone once stole my kid’s pictures from my Facebook and made a page making incest and pedophile jokes about them and anything else they could think of. Took my picture too and made an entire page about my father abusing me. Did I deserve that for having a facebook?
I’m not saying using his kid’s picture in this context is anywhere near the same thing, but I don’t believe in the “you dared to put a picture out there/go in public, now people can treat you however they want”.
Deludid…i hope you reported that. I agree. He and his wife put it up there and hes allowed to have a say back. Pic. of his kids? Big deal. I personally think fb rules should be tighter but if you put it out there then get ready for opinions.
DLPL,
I didn’t say it was justified, I said it could happen.
You put your info on the internet, millions of people have access to it. People are dangerous, they are warped. Sorry, but your actions make you an easy mark for them. And no that’s not blaming the victim, that’s stating fact.
Its the world we live in, the predators are out there, we are the ones who must be ever cautions.
That’s like the definitive statement for victim blaming Mary. Like, I could put it in the dictionary.
Francis-the child was not dead. I repeat: THE CHILD WAS NOT DEAD. If the child was going to be delivered dead then why did they have to rush to a clinic to kill him? Makes NO sense. None.
Someday we ALL will die. Does that make it moral for me to end your life now? Or for you to end mine? NO. Doesn’t matter if we’re gonna die at 8 pm tonight. If someone kills us right now they have still stolen moments from our lives that weren’t theirs to steal. Killing children is always wrong. I don’t care how sick they are. No excuse.
Totes means “totally”. You can read that in my valley girl voice. I use that when I’m being utterly facetious. It’s meant to convey my dripping sarcasm and total disdain for the arguments put forth by the supporters of baby killing.
Basically the pro-abortion trolls’ argument goes something like this: “You don’t understand man!!! That baby was going to DIE!!! That baby was going to be delivered DEAD so they had to go to this clinic so that the heart could be injected with poison and stopped and then the mom could deliver…a…dead baby.” Hmmmm…
Do any of the trolls commenting here know how late abortions are done? Anyone? Didn’t think so. Do your research then get back to me. Mkay? Thanks.
Oh come on DPLP,
Pointing out how people can put themselves and their loved ones at risk is “victim blaming”? Give me a break.
Look at some of the weirdos Jill has attracted the attention of. It comes with the territory.
Sorry, but the world is full of predators and very warped people forever on the prowl for easy marks. We have to protect ourselves. If we don’t we can become victims. If we do we can become victims.
When you put your info on the internet you have no idea who is reading it or what they might do. When we make certain decisions, like leaving our homes unlocked, walking in dangerous neighborhoods…or putting our info on the internet, we have to realize there may be serious consequences for doing so.
Does that justify what happened to you and your family? Absolutely not. Were you victimized? Yes.
Its for this reason I put only the most minimal info, and no pictures of myself or my family on the internet, or facebook. Just like I don’t leave my home unlocked or take evening strolls in dangerous neighborhoods.
If other people want to start up blogs and put information about themselves and their families on the internet, be my guest.
Yes and way to put your already sick child through murder to finish the kid off. A shot of Digoxin to the heart? Other brutal things I just cant bring myself to print? Why go to a clinic? I would have gone to a hospital and allow nature to take its course.
“Basically the pro-abortion trolls’ argument goes something like this: “You don’t understand man!!! That baby was going to DIE!!! That baby was going to be delivered DEAD” – well that bit’s not too wrong. The rest however, goes more like ‘knowing the fetus is going to die we don’t want the added trauma and suffering we would feel by continuing the pregnancy.’ That’s how it is for some people. Others may choose to revel in whatever it is that completing the pregnancy and delivering does for them.
Mary, it is victim blaming because you are basically saying that if people basically exist in any public space they have to expect to be treated badly. It removes responsibility to the victims of poor treatment. Like, it is like saying that if you put a pro-life sticker or a Darwin fish on your car you are asking for vandalism.
No DLPL,
I’m saying there are warped and dangerous people out there who will have access to the information you choose to make public to millions. You have to be aware that you may well be victimized by one or more of them. You don’t have to expect it, you have to be aware these people are out there and you could be putting yourself and your family at risk.
What I’m saying is no different than you warning someone to stay away from a dangerous neighborhood. You know there are very dangerous people hanging around the neighborhood and you do not want this person putting him/herself into a potentially dangerous situation.
You and your family are not to blame for the actions of sickos, but you have to always be aware they are out there and they don’t care about your rights or those of your family.
Deluded I understand your point but I agree with Mary. For example we know actress Lindsay Lohan has a drug problem. Many others do but Im going to use her. When Charlie Sheen acted insane with whatever he was on he attracted ppl who hated his guts and some thought he hung the moon. When Lohan was in Friday the 13th I thought WHAT A TALENT!! Of course it was a rerun filmed before all of her public problems with drugs began. Ive been to sites where ppl have wished a quick death on Lohan! Perez Hilton used to talk about Amy Whinehouse calling her Amy Wino and ppl would write in….is she dead yet? Evil and nasty? Yes. Can we stop it? No. Not really. Ik Amy W. was on deaths door and then she did die.
Even when actress Jenn Aniston made the remark ” Women do not NEED men to be good parents.” Uh oh! As expected the fur went flying. Why? Because many ppl believe a dad is very important. And others were critical because JA is childless yet ppl said ” Yeah she doesnt need a man with nannies and people she can hire for help.” Kids still need a dad.
I still think it’s victim blaming and an excuse for people to excuse themselves or others for bad behavior. “If you didn’t want to get beaten for being gay, you shouldn’t have held hands with your boyfriend in public”, “If you didn’t want people to steal your kids pictures and do awful things with them, you shouldn’t have put them anywhere other than a photo album”. Don’t like it, personally, and don’t think it’s helpful.
Well Reality, do you support killing disabled born children? So that their parents don’t have to deal with the added trauma and suffering of taking care of sick children?
I support people being able to decide what the best path is for them Sydney M.
Reality, do you support the mother in the QotD a couple days ago who is deliberately smoking and drinking because she’s pregnant with a disappointing boy instead of a precious, wanted girl, and doesn’t care about damaging him and is actually proud of herself for being “honest”?
If she intends to continue the pregnancy I would encourage her to take the best care of herself and the fetus that she can. But it is her decision.
So, you have no concern about the health of the current fetus, eventual infant really, nor do you care about the public health of the population if this stuff is acceptable? That’s cool.
You know I like you Reality, but sometimes I just don’t know about you.
You realize if she doesn’t care about him now, he’s not likely to have a healthy childhood. Do you care about that?
Did you read an answer other than the one I gave or something?
Nope. You said you’d encourage her to care for the fetus and herself, but ultimately it’s whatever she wants to do. What about therapy or rehab or anything, anything so less people pop out babies with FAS and low birthweights and prematurity problems, which affect all of society. And what about after she gives birth? Who’s looking out for the kid then?
It’s not all about her and her decisions when it’s another person’s life who is going to be irreparably harmed here.
Encouraging her to take the best care of herself and the fetus that she can may well include things such as therapy and rehab, she certainly has issues. I certainly didn’t exclude them in my answer now did I.
“And what about after she gives birth? Who’s looking out for the kid then?” – social services, friends and relatives? Let’s hope she’s right when she says believes her “maternal instincts will kick in” once her baby boy is born.
Smoking and drinking aren’t illegal, even for pregnant women. I do not support legal action regarding either. Support,encouragement etc. yes, but ultimately…..
Do you support the laws (that just took effect in my state at least in January) that fine you if you smoke in a car with children in it, whether or not you roll the window down?
“Encouraging her to take the best care of herself and the fetus that she can may well include things such as therapy and rehab, she certainly has issues. I certainly didn’t exclude them in my answer now did I.”
Would you support legally requiring her to attend pregnancy care classes or therapy, like we do when mothers neglect their born children? Would you support it if there was no legal penalty but it was paid for her?
“social services, friends and relatives? Let’s hope she’s right when she says believes her “maternal instincts will kick in” once her baby boy is born.”
Didn’t happen for me and my mom, we certainly don’t want this boy to end up like me. Would you support an automatic CPS (or the UK equivalent, dunno what that is) investigation/involvement/plan when this baby is born, considering her treatment of him as a fetus?
Yes, second-hand smoke has been proven harmful.
No. Yes.
No. Her treatment of him as a fetus may change. She may actually be lying. If it becomes clear at birth that serious detrimental effects have taken place because of her behavior, possibly.
“Yes, second-hand smoke has been proven harmful.”
Smoking while pregnant is extremely dangerous for the child and the mother. http://www.babycenter.com/0_how-smoking-during-pregnancy-affects-you-and-your-baby_1405720.bc
And I’m sure we don’t have to go over the evidence of what alcohol does to unborn children in utero, and the lifelong effects that some of them struggle with. Same for stuff like crack, cocaine, meth, opiates, and others. They can all cause serious, life-long disabilities or even death for the child. It’s a serious public and personal health issue.
I could support court-mandated therapy and parenting/pregnancy care classes for addicts or others who abuse drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol during pregnancy. Of course, I support the same for other addicts (therapy and rehab, parenting classes if they are parents). No criminal record (though I want a mandatory CPS case file opened upon birth or for any addict who is carrying on an addiction around children), but I think the problem is immense enough to require these things in some way.
I really think it’s odd that you care about the child’s health after birth (kinda, I don’t share your optimism she’ll suddenly like him after he’s born, my mom never did), but you don’t see the urgency in doing something about these issues of him being damaged in the womb. I just can’t get my mind around adults being so much more important than helpless children to you.
I’m not disputing the potential harm of smoking, alcohol or other drugs LDPL. Don’t start loading things up like certain others do.
I’m very wary of social policies becoming draconian. Let me know when the authorities start frowning on people who get pregnant knowing full well there’s a high risk of fetal abnormalities or failure.
I don’t think adults are more important than helpless children. I do think both are more important than fetuses.
I think all addicts or those who abuse drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes deserve treatment (under my universal care system it would be provided free of charge and tax supported) and in cases where it’s harming others it should be court ordered. Do you agree on that if the person being harmed is born? Just wondering if we agree on that.
I’m not trying to pick on you or put words in your mouth. The subject of mothers hating and punishing their children for no reason is triggering to me, for the lack of a better word (people don’t take triggers serious, but they do affect your ability to think rationally). I apologize if I’m misreading you.
Fetuses are humans and will become born babies and enter society, and their damage not only effects their life for years to come, it’s a public health issue. Even if you think fetuses aren’t worth anything if their mother doesn’t care what happens to them, you have to see how a mother who doesn’t care about harming her’s (or even actually admits she’s deliberately harming a fetus because he’s a boy or whatever) has greater effects than just “her body, her choice”.
DLPL,
Fine, then don’t ever advise someone to stay away from a dangerous neighborhood. If that person ignores your advice and gets mugged, then you could be accused of victim blaming.
Warning someone about a bad neighborhood isn’t the same thing as saying “well, what did you expect” or the like about someone who was victimized.
If all you did was advise someone of the dangers of a particular area but they entered anyway and suffered as a consequence, it wouldn’t be ‘victim blaming’ unless you said “I told you so, you only have yourself to blame.” Some of us don’t feel the need to do such things.
“Sorry, but your actions make you an easy mark for them.”
Saying this to me, when all I did was have a Facebook like 1/6 of the world’s population does and dared to have a few pics of my kids up there, is victim blaming. I didn’t make myself an “easy mark”. I dared to exist in a public space. No worries, I don’t participate in social media anymore, it was rather traumatic. My fault or not, I don’t think statements like that help.
Now, if you had said something along the lines to someone considering putting a pic of their kids on their Facebook like “hey, there are some creeps out there that might steal your pics”, that isn’t victim blaming.
Court-ordered weight loss LDPL? Court-ordered diet? Court-ordered times and positions for intercourse? Work roles? Where do we stop?
Just about anyone is allowed to have a gun. Adults and children alike get accidently killed. Where’s the court control there?
See now you’re loading me up with things, like certain others do. ;)
I said court ordered when others are being harmed. Like kids living in houses where parents are slamming heroin or drunk drivers. You know, because you’ve seen me argue it a million times here, that I don’t believe that using drugs or alcohol or cigarettes in itself should be a crime, though treatment should be available and encouraged. It’s when the addict/user is harming others I think the court should be involved. And I don’t want them to have criminal records in many cases. CPS records, yes, if children are involved.
You know I’m not particularly statist so shush. ;)
I’m not big on guns in houses with children. I don’t have them in my house anymore, but when I did have my guns in my house I kept them locked in a safe that my kids couldn’t get into.
Gee, I hope we aren’t victim blaming on each other LDPL ;-)
Others get harmed by guns. Where are the court orders prior to harm occuring?
What are you talking about? I know you’re pro-gun control and don’t think anyone should have them. I’d be fine with some requirements for the safety of children in the case of guns.
How is your position more draconian than mine? You don’t want anyone to have guns because they kill people, all right I can dig it. I want people to have treatment available to them and if you’re abusing drugs or alcohol or exposing your children to second hand smoke I think you should be mandated to get therapy/rehab/parenting classes/whatever. I don’t think I’m more draconian than you.
Considering that the problem of drug and alcohol abuse affects and kills far more people than guns, and it’s heavily tied to child abuse (last statistic I read said over 50% of child abuse cases involved the abuser or other caretakers who were abusing substances), I think one problem is more pressing than the other. Though I care deeply about both. And the problems caused by drug and alcohol abuse begin in the womb for tons of children.
I mean if you are abusing drugs or alcohol and your children are involved in some capacity (like those poor kids who eat ketchup for dinner while Mommy goes on a meth bender), there should be court mandated therapy going on there. And definitely CPS. I don’t see how any of my opinions here are controversial or draconian. Except that I think that it should be extended to pregnant women abusing their unborn babies with substances proven to cause serious harm to fetuses. I can see why that opinion is controversial or even draconian in your eyes.
Did I say draconian? Sorry, I meant to say dragonian, because you’re breathing fire on this one ;-)
I understand your premise and agree to some extent, I’m just wary of such actions considering how some groups take advantage of such things to drive their own agenda.
I’m not being aggressive! I’m just upset about that mom hating her fetus because he’s a boy and I wanna fix it and I want all kids safe and I want world peace and an end to world hunger and tuberculosis to be eradicated and people to stop eating meat.
DLPL,
How many times must I tell you no one had the right to victimize you? Where did I ever say “what did you expect?” I am saying that when your info is on the internet, you cannot control who reads or abuses your information.
The predators and warped minds are out there. Always keep that in mind and be very careful.
Sorry Mary I don’t see a ton of difference between telling someone that they made themselves an easy mark and “what did you expect”. I should have used the language you used specifically and not paraphrased.
I don’t think it’s fair to second-guess after the fact, it doesn’t help, it just makes people feel bad. Warn away before hand if you wish, but telling people how they set themselves up after they’ve already been harmed is victim blaming in my opinion.
DLPL,
I pointed out that when you put your info on the internet, when any of us do, we make ourselves easy marks for the very warped minds and predators that search the internet. That’s a fact. I never made any flippant comment about “what did you expect?
I’m very sorry this happened to you and your family. Nothing justifies it. I am very fond of you and would never want you or your family going through this. Just as I am sure you would be very sorry to hear I was mugged walking in a dangerous neighborhood, however you would not be surprised it happened.
People put all kinds of info on the internet and are not victimized. You were. For that I am very sorry.
Hi DLPL,
I had an interesting conversation with my brother, who I told you is an ex cop. He told me that predators all have one thing in common: They are all opportunists.
Whether its searching the internet for victims or preying on the elderly woman who lives alone, they will seek and pounce. They look for easy marks. That is not a derogatory comment about victims, but the mentality of the predator.
Some lowlifes found you and preyed on you and your family. They saw an opportunity and they took it. Just like a predator may see you alone walking to your car at nite and strike. We are all vulnerable, both on the internet and our every day lives. This is not blaming the victim, its stating a fact.
Yes we all need to take precautions in our every day lives, but there are certainly no guarantees that we will not be victimized.
Mary, I choose not to go after someone is victimized and say that they “made themselves easy marks” and such. That’s literally 90% of what people tell street kids when they get attacked or hurt “well, if you had been home instead of on the street you would have been safe”. It’s not helpful. Sometimes people have no choice but to be in a situation that isn’t ideal. Warn away, but I think some things you are saying is just hurtful to someone who was victimized.
DLPL,
I do not choose to either and I did not to you. I specified that “easy mark” is in the eyes of the predators, who are constantly on the prowl. And please, this does not pertain to people forced into dangerous situations at home and on the street like the children you describe.
We have to be forever on our guard and it is dangerously naive to think otherwise. You made the choice that millions do, to put your info on line. You were victimized. My friends and family members do it all the time and I am very disturbed by this practice, especially where it involves their children. No one is safe from a determined predator and I warn them as well. And very honestly I will not be surprised if they are victimized as you were, or worse.
True some people have no choice. I may have to drive through a dangerous neighborhood, you may have to walk to you car alone at night. In these situations we know enough to be on the alert.
Its the situations where we assume we are “safe”, like on facebook or with this author, writing about a personal experience, that we do make choices, the same choices millions make, and may face serious consequences for doing so. This pertains to our every day life as well, assume you are safe and you are suddenly confronting a home invader or someone mugs you in a parking lot.
That’s not blaming the victim, that’s describing the world we live in.
“Because of people like you, no one wants to perform these anymore.”
Hey, that’s the best news I’ve heard in a long time! Thanks for the encouragement.
Vita, excellent post! That one’s a keeper.