Today, I am featuring only one cartoon, by liberal Clay Jones at GoComics.com (and claytoonz.com), because it’s a loaded one, full of caricatures and misrepresentations, aimed right at pro-lifers.
What do you see wrong with this cartoon? What is your response?
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Completely unrelated. In fact the article below is about the Catholic Church being used as “Obama Plan B” in the immigration crisis. The real truth is that Protestants & Catholics are most likely to respond by helping these children. Implying otherwise is intellectually dishonest, but a familiar theme for the Pro-Abortion crowd.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/382352/obama-administrations-border-crisis-plan-b-use-catholic-church-ryan-lovelace
Two Things:
1) The Hobby Lobby ruling was more about religious liberty than sanctity of life. Although the thing that triggered it was the belief that some drugs in question may be abortificent, they are not being banned or anything like that so the ruling is really about an employer’s right not to pay for them due to religious objections.
2) Unless sending these individuals back where they came from is a more or less automatic death sentence, calling this a sanctity of life issue is dubious at best. Does the U.S. currently although anyone to stay if they’re from a more dangerous country? Most of the world is probably more dangerous than America, that doesn’t me that they all automatically get to stay.
So this is interesting and I give props to the moderator that posted it because they just posted it without a whole lot of commentary to see how things develop.
So here’s a quick secret of mine – and you might say it is BS, but quite truthfully, I’m not quite as far left as I come off as on this board. I certainly lean left – but for every policy I like on the left, there’s a couple I don’t like – and there’s quite a few conservative policies that resonate with me strongly.
At the core though, I see neither party aligned strongly enough with my ultimate influence – Christ – so I end up getting frustrated.
That plays out on this board – and I lash out at times to the point of being a troll because sometimes I see the conversations and the viewpoints and I personally, in my opinion, see inconsistencies that drive me crazy. Now, I fully embrace that others will see those same inconsistencies in me. I’ll own that.
Enough about me – so what I like about this cartoon is that is displays one of those frustrations that I have.
If the love of other people, through your faith, or in just seeing value in other people – is one of the guiding principles in your life – I don’t see how you can be both massively pro-life and so quick to loathe immigrants (and as a side note, both healthcare and guns are an issue I see a lot of inconsistency with) and put our self interests as a country above their human suffering.
Put differently – I think anytime a woman walks in to have an abortion – there is a certain fear, selfishness, and economic self interest that is coming into play and warping the view of others involved (in this case, a baby). With immigrants, I see the same thing – a certain fear, selfishness, and economic self interest sets in and we demonize folks and care less about their life and more about our own convenience.
Should we simply open borders – no, certainly not. But I do think we need to look at some of the root causes, some of the facts, some of the human elements, and come up with a better response.
And last thing before closing – this cartoon should cut both ways. If a person is really into the rights of an immigrant, the slave trade, and other individual human rights – how are those consistent with a pro-choice view?
I don’t know if anybody will reach the end of my rambling – but thanks again to the mods – I think this is a great cartoon to get people thinking.
This comic would make PERFECT sense if pro-lifers were fighting to have illegal immigrants ripped to pieces and sucked through aspirator hoses.
How is it that pro-aborts willfully fail to recognize that abortion is outright homicide? They seem to think they’re ‘catching us’ in double-standards, but no one here is fighting to have anyone killed.
Very catchy, as lies go.
I’ve been wondering: has the refugee services office of the U.S. Catholic Bishops been invited to help on the border lately? The Obama Administration tried to cut that office out of federal contracts at some point because that office wouldn’t refer refugees for contraception and abortions.
There is a small grain of truth in this. Pro lifers DO suffer from hypocrisy. I see a LOT of this coming out of the American pro life side. A lot of American right wingers are anti abortion, but pro contraception, pro capital punishment and want to ship all the illegals & refugees back where they came from.we all need to work on this and have a good hard look at just how pro life we actually are
Hm-m-m. Thought foreign aid, economic sanctions, and NAFTA were suppose to take care of many things so that people would fix their own country’s problems and be happy to stay there. Use that money to fix this illegal immigrant problem.
Spoke with a lady from Nigeria today who told me that she had to have a clean bill of health to come here. Understand that is NOT what is happening with this group. TB, scabies, etc. are being found. Will Obamacare cover all of this?
Hundreds are being sent to Chicago which reports say have 82 shot and 14 murdered this past weekend alone. Escaping violence and being sent to where. OMG!
Who is more at fault … the giver, the taker, or those who allow this to continue? Not just the above. Check this out – http://www.libertynews.com/2014/07/exclusive-hhs-bankrolled-catholic-and-baptist-church-from-2010-to-2013-to-prepare-for-obamas-2014-invasion/
HHS Bankrolled Catholic and Baptist Church from 2010 to 2013 to Prepare for Obama’s 2014 Invasion!
“Between Dec 2010 and Nov 2013, the Catholic Charities Diocese of Galveston received $15,549,078 in federal grants from Health & Human Services for “Unaccompanied Alien Children Project” with a program description of “Refugee and Entry Assistance.”
Last year, the Catholic Charities Diocese of Fort Worth received $350,000 from Department of Homeland Security for “citizenship and education training” with a program description of “citizenship and immigration services.”
Between September 2010 and September 2013, the Catholic Charities of Dallas received $823,658 from the Department of Homeland Security for “Citizenship Education Training” for “refugee and entrant assistance.”
From Dec 2012 to January 2014, Baptist Child & Family Services received $62,111,126 in federal grants from Health & Human Services for “Unaccompanied Alien Children Program.”
The above monies total $78,833,862. The foreign aid ???. Plus Obama wants how much more??? Seems there is not enough money to buy what one thinks one wants.
Beginning to sound like the pro-aborts who think we should give every pregnant woman a house if she decides to have her baby.
Well I am pretty sure we are mandated to care for widows and orphans and the other needy… Pretty sure that is a non-negotiable part of the Bible. I am no foreign policy expert, and I simply don’t know what to do with these kids. All I know is it is our responsibility. A lot of Latin America’s problems are the result of US policies and interference for centuries. We can’t just throw them back there and ignore it. I don’t know. We basically gave Cubans carte blanche immigration for a time period and it worked out okay…
Ex I like your post.
Accepting trafficked human beings does nothing to solve the problems that got them here in the first place. But the traffickers’ business is booming.
I admit I have a problem with Mexicans and Central Americans coming here, especially Mexicans, because many of them are EXTREMELY racist towards black people. The small black populations in these countries are totally marginalized, even more so than indigenous populations. Mexican gangs (the Mexican Mafia etc.) are driving black people out of Los Angeles and there is a lot of tension between the two groups. I am on my kindle so I can’t link it but look it up. I know that not all are that way but I’ve been harassed by racist Mexicans.
Elizabet
But see there, phillymiss, you’re perpetrating the same type of generalization against the groups (Mexican and Central American immigrants) that people tend to do to black people and other minority groups. Not saying that Latin America doesn’t have a HUGE colorism problem (I’ve bitched about it in Cuba enough so you know where I stand on it), but I don’t think generalizing is helping it.
The Latin American (and Asian, but since Asians are seen as “model minorities” it’s not as talked about) gangs are definitely a problem in LA (and Miami, gang and race wars are terrible in Miami, it’s just not Mexicans usually) and of course black people are the worst affected by it (as they generally are by socioeconomic and violence problems in the US and elsewhere), but there are plenty of non-racist immigrants and a lot of them are fleeing the oppression that darker colored immigrants from those countries are fleeing as well.
That’s true Deluded, but once you’ve been a victim of racism by a group and that’s the only interaction you’ve had with them is neggative it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. I know that’s not a good way to feel and I am really trying to deal with it. I used to really hate white people until I realized not all are racist a-holes. There are not many Mexicans here mostly Dominicans and Puerto Ricans and I’ve mostly gotten along with them but many (but not all of course) Cubans,Central Americans, and Mexicans seem to have issues with black ppl. You know the Spanish set up this color caste system throughout Latin America but I’ve been to Spain and some of them are fairly dark.
Also while it’s true that many conservatives are hypocrites remember that conservatives and people of faith give more to charity than liberals and secularists. Also some liberals are VERY hypocritical. I wonder how happy the artist who drew this cartoon would feel if these women and children were put in
a house next to him (my lower middle class neighborhood has all types of nationalities so I wouldn’t care). Also I find that many white liberals preach about diversity and tolerance but then live in the whitest neighborhoods they can find. Of course that’s their prerogative — people should be able to live where they like — but I find this rather hypocritical.
“If the love of other people, through your faith, or in just seeing value in other people – is one of the guiding principles in your life –
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I don’t see how you can be both massively pro-life and
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so quick to loathe immigrants
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(and as a side note, both healthcare and guns are an issue I see a lot of inconsistency with) and put our self interests as a country above their human suffering.”
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Ex-RINO, please regale us with one example where Jesus ever advocated using the state to steal the wealth of productive individuals as a substitute for caring for the poor among us.
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I can’t speak for any other pro-lifers, but I have contributed far more of a percentage of my personal wealth and time than you ever have or probably ever will to serve and bless Spanish speaking people from south of our border.
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What I loathe is folks like you who would look the other way to children being used as disposable political props to advance your socialist agenda.
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The presidents of Mexico and Guatemala recently entered into an agreement to guarantee safe passage of unaccompanied children from the border of Guatemala thru Mexico to the United States southern border.
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There is no way this happened with out the boRATs notice and approval. Mexico and Guatemala have too much to loose in U.S. foreign aid and trade to risk it without having first gotten an approval from our the boRAT.
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This man made disaster can be laid at the blood stained paws of the boRAT and his fellow democRATs and some RINO’s who have no conscience.
Ken – they let you out?
You’re asking the wrong question, and asking it in a dumb way. What I mean is, you are trying to make a point by not directly addressing the issue, but somehow trying to tie it to economic systems. Very odd.
If you want to rethink your approach and come back, I’ll watch for your response.
“The Presidents of Mexico and Guatemala recently entered into an agreement to guarantee safe passage of unaccompanied children from the border of Guatemala thru Mexico and to the United States southern border”
So how concerned are the leaders and parents of these countries that they send these children to be at the mercy of who knows what?? Also, are the “families” these children are being reunited with really family, or sex traffickers? Does anyone bother to check?
Looks like some Black Americans aren’t too enthralled with this influx of illegal immigrant children.
http://www.teaparty.org/chicago-slams-obama-worst-president-ever-elected-47630/
What a bunch of pro life hypocrites!
Oh and Ken, good point. This could not have occurred without Obama’s knowledge and blessing. I mean what’s NSA for, right?
This is liberal agitprop. The liberal elitists want to believe that pro-lifers are all TEA-party conservatives.
We aren’t.
Many pro-lifers are politically liberal, and we wish that liberals would spread their compassion and care over the pre-born as they do for so many other groups.
A great many of us are devout Catholics who agree with our bishops: we desire justice and charity for the immigrant families who only desire is to make a lives of safety and well-being. We let them in; they are innocent.
Hi Del,
MS-13 isn’t innocent
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/11/violent-gang-ms-13-taking-advantage-immigration-cr/
Also, as I pointed out in a previous post, do we have any idea the fate that awaits these children? Are the drug cartels, pornographers, and sex traffickers standing in line for these kids while on their international border crossings?
Did our president give any thought to this when he gave his blessing?
I’m actually pretty pro-immigration. Laws need to be reformed to allow people to come here legally, and I’m not even opposed to creating some sort of system to allow people here to stay. Most people coming are hard working and just want a better life for their families. That being said, this cartoon is ludicrous. There is no hypocrisy in being pro-life and not open border. What’s going on now is a situation of a completely unenforced border. Yes, we need to care for people while they are here (which will mostly be done by churches btw), but it’s not antilife to deport people. I’d actually argue that not enforcing our laws will lead to more danger for these children who are being sent here by well meaning parents at very very great peril to the children.
Hi CT,
I wholeheartedly support LEGAL immigration as well.
We definitely agree on the grave danger these children face.
I’m not convinced though that all parents are so well meaning, some of these children may be orphaned or simply unwanted. Maybe no one give two hoots what happens to them, making them easy marks for every imaginable, and unimaginable, predator.
Ex-RINO,
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Jesus loves a cheerful giver. How much of your wealth, time and energy have you given to strangers in need?
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The bent one is the liar who steals, kills and destroys. Jesus gives life and liberty and He pays the bill.
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The good Samaritan was not a statist. He cared for the stranger who was beaten and robbed by reaching into his own pocket, not his neighbor’s.
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You applaud the thieves, because “…you do what your father does.”
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Hi Mary,
Abandoning the young immigrants to gangs and sex trafficking is not the justice and charity that we owe to them.
The cartoon follows an often-repeated theme from pro-borts: They accuse pro-lifers of only caring about pre-born children. They insist that we do not care about born children, mothers, poverty, protecting our environment, convicts on death row, and wars.
There are two points to pop that balloon:
1) We do care about those concerns. Read our blogs, see where we donate our charity. The pro-life community is a broad tent and diverse in opinions, and yet our broad concern for all life is the fat middle part of our bell curve.
2) If anyone is clearly living in hypocrisy, it would be those who care about immigrants and war victims and such, yet show a callous enthusiasm for killing children.
We suspect that they don’t really care about human life and suffering, but rather they choose their empty rhetoric for personal and political gain.
X—at least be HONEST about the real issue here. Saying we “loathe immigrants”…is just being dishonest. I don’t loathe immigrants. I “loathe” if you will illegal immigration!!!! ILLEGAL got it? My great-grandparents were immigrants. They came here LEGALLY, were quarantined till they were sure they didn’t have any communicable diseases, had SPONSORS here, got jobs, learned English and assimilated! And they never demanded free stuff from tax payers while waving the flag of their homeland.
I find it ABSURD that the only two countries in the world that aren’t allowed to enforce their borders are Israel and America. Seriously…Mexico enforces it’s southern border. If you go into their country illegally and are caught you are NOT given a free education, food and a house. You’re put in JAIL.
Did our president give any thought to this when he gave his blessing?
Just as a point of clarification: by “his blessing” you mean the imaginary blessing that you made up in your head because the NSA didn’t forestall the agreement between Mexico and Guatemala, right? Not anything that Obama has actually said or done.
please regale us with one example where Jesus ever advocated using the state to steal the wealth of productive individuals as a substitute for caring for the poor among us.
Jesus said to render unto Caesar what was Caesar, and the Roman Empire used taxes in part to provide public amenities that primarily benefited poor people. Not as much in Jesus’s time as a bit later on, but presumably he knew what was coming.
Del: The cartoon follows an often-repeated theme from pro-borts: They accuse pro-lifers of only caring about pre-born children. They insist that we do not care about born children, mothers, poverty, protecting our environment, convicts on death row, and wars.
Del, you’re generalizing as much as anybody. Not all pro-choicers say that, and it’s also true that not all pro-lifers want to throw all illegal immigrants out, period. But some do.
Aside from arguing back-and-forth, this immigration thing is a massive problem. I agree with Sydney – these people are not allowed into the US. We can’t take everybody from all over the world, even though many of them are trying to get away from situations that we would agree are intolerable.
It really makes me wonder about the church and the governments in the places where the immigrants are coming from.
El Salvador for instance – most people in this country have it BAD, and it is routine for young girls, I mean like 13 or 14, to be raped. They have no access to birth control, and abortion is forbidden by the gov’t, even in cases like ectopic pregnancies, where there is zero chance of unborn survival, and which can be fatal to the woman.
I am assuming the church is pretty much silent on the plight of the women. Mostly, the church in El Salvador is complicit in the gov’t’s repression of the people, and there have been some notable cases (and famous ones, as with ArchBishop Romero) where when the church is not, those who speak out get taken out.
Doug appears to be taking a back handed swipe at the Church. He repeats attacks on the pro-life movement by repeating a story from the NY Times and Al Jeezera. To say the Church is complicit in the government’s persecution is a lie, anti-Catholic bigotry! Whatever the law is in El Salvador regarding ectopic pregnancy here is the Church’s teaching regarding ectopic pregnancies: An ectopic pregnancy is one of the only cases where the foreseeable death of an embryo is allowed, since it is categorized as an indirect abortion. In Humanae Vitae, Paul VI writes that “the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever”. This view was also advocated by Pius XII in a 1953 address to the Italian Association of Urology.[46]
Using the Thomistic Principle of Totality (removal of a pathological part to preserve the life of the person) and the Doctrine of Double Effect, the only moral action in an ectopic pregnancy where a woman’s life is directly threatened is the removal of the tube containing the human embryo (salpingectomy). The death of the human embryo is unintended although foreseen.[47]
Jim, as far as ectopic pregnancies, I did not say that was due to “the Church.” That’s simply the law in El Salvador, and if the Catholic Church has the opposite position, then I think that’s good.
But as far as the gov’t’s treatment of “the masses,” then the Church has indeed been complicit – and this doesn’t come from the NY Times and Al Jeezera. This is historical fact, going back many decades. There were some church leaders in that country who just plain said and did pretty much what the gov’t wanted them to, whether or not they had any opposite desires in the first place.
There are also those who did have the opposite desires, and still kept quiet – and it’s not hard to understand. When priests and bishops are getting killed for “stepping out of line,” then the tendency to be quiet is just human nature. I don’t say all church personnel in that situation are “bad people,” not at all, and most of them probably did what good they could.
Things change slowly, and many women in Latin America have had a bad deal, and this, at times, is supported by “sacred traditions” as recognized by the Catholic Church. Women, culturally, are seen as either saints/madonnas, or as prostitutes. In a place like El Salvador, being raped and impregnated is not all that rare a thing, and there is not the cultural support for birth control that we have in the US, for example. No support is forthcoming from the church, either.
Despite it not being her fault at all, once the girl is pregnant then it’s obvious that she is not on the “madonna” side of things any longer, and this is a ticket to poverty or worse.
Doug,
Far be it from me to defend ‘church’ or the catholic church.
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When the conquistadors arrived on the scene the indigenous people in what is now known as Mexico, Central America and South America were advanced in some ways, but barbaric in other ways. Human sacrifice and child sacrifice where not uncommon. Wars of conquest and slavery were the norm. Blood feud between tribes were the rule.
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I have spent over 6 months in Mexico, driving a month at a time and I have enjoyed the hospitality and kindness of strangers everywhere I stopped.
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I once spent about 3 weeks in Guatemala and was received equally warmly there. I spent a weekend camping with some charismatic catholics. They invited me back to their hometown the following weekend.
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Beautiful people living in a beautiful part of the world.
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I cannot imagine any of the people I encountered sending their unaccompanied minor children 1,300 miles in the desperate hope that they would be better off than if they had stayed at home with their them.
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Then there is the issue of money. If these people are living in such abject poverty, how are they acquiring the thousands of dollars required to pay the ‘coyotes’ to guide them across the United States border?
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I know let me guess. The loving parents are stealing it from the catholic church, or the drug cartels are lending them the money, or benevolent American democRATs are reaching deep in their own pockets and donating their own money to fund the exodus.
I cannot imagine any of the people I encountered sending their unaccompanied minor children 1,300 miles in the desperate hope that they would be better off than if they had stayed at home with their them.
Ken, I totally hear that. Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala are where most are coming from now, I think. I don’t know if things have changed in Guatemala since you were there, or if it’s a matter of different parts of the country or what.
I do believe that things are bad enough that people are sending their kids off as you describe.
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Then there is the issue of money. If these people are living in such abject poverty, how are they acquiring the thousands of dollars required to pay the ‘coyotes’ to guide them across the United States border?
The per-capita income in El Salvador is about 1/14 of what we have in the US. I think there is even more stratification, there, with a very wealthy upper class (that has access to private doctors, abortions, birth control, despite the country’s laws) leaving the rest of the people quite poor by our standards.
The United Nations (or somebody) classifies El Salvador as “lower middle income,” and there are other countries with only a small fraction of even El Salvador’s per capita income.
“Thousands of Dollars” is going to be a very rough go for most El Salvadoreans.
LisaC,
My how forgetful of me. I should have mentioned the Glorious Leader also had the CIA to help keep him informed. Now if you believe for a minute that Obama knew nothing of this agreement LisaC, then I’ve got some oceanfront property in Montana to sell you. Also, if you think this agreement could have been pulled off without his blessing, then I’ll throw a few bridges in the deal as well.
BTW, should you question the NSA’s ability to obtain information or the likelihood of our president not knowing:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-nsa-spied-on-brazilian-mexican-presidents/
Hi Del,
No it isn’t justice, its the brutal reality of a world full of predators and children shipped off thousands of miles to the US border. Along with their dead bodies being found on the banks of the Rio Grande and in the desert.
My how forgetful of me. I should have mentioned the Glorious Leader also had the CIA to help keep him informed etc.
Right. Imaginary blessing that you made up in your head.
Article on the topic: http://www.latinnews.com/component/k2/item/61221/top_pick.html?period=2014&archive=true&cat_id=795253%3Amexicos-response-to-the-migrant-children
Oh yes LisaC,
And as the border crisis gets out of hand our glorious leader plays pool and fundraises.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/texas-dem-obama-actions-bizarre-108718.html
You’d almost think he expected this and couldn’t care less.
But then, no way he could have known ahead of time, right?
But then, no way he could have known ahead of time, right?
I’m not saying he wouldn’t have known about it, particularly given that the presidents of the US and Mexico had discussed the problem two weeks earlier. I’m just doubting how much power Obama has over the governments of Guatemala and Mexico. If he held that much sway over them, wouldn’t we see them expanding abortion access for all nine months for any reason up to the very instant of birth? I mean, surely you’re not going to deny that Obama’s highest ambition in life is to kill all the precious babies in utero. Why not use his influence to attain that goal?
LisaC,
“I’m not saying he wouldn’t have known about it….”
Well, we’re finally getting somewhere.
He knew. Also these two presidents wouldn’t have “discussed this problem”, more accurately described as plotting, without a blessing from the Dear Leader. Oh, he doesn’t have to say anything or put it in writing, like a Mafia Don he can proclaim his innocence while underlings do his dirty work, you know, give winks and nods where needed, nothing in writing of course. Even Hitler wasn’t that stupid when it came to the Holocaust.
So as the border crisis continues, the Dear Leader plays pool. Exactly what the presidents of those countries knew he would do. Isn’t he also planning a 15 day vacation at Martha’s Vineyard?
Like I said, you’d almost think Obama expected this and couldn’t care less.
The feds won’t be shipping any of these unaccompanied minor children to Martha’s Vineyard to vacation with the boRAT the undocumented illegal alien, Moochelle the beard or their two anchor children.
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Nor will any of the UMCs be showing up at ole black Joe Biden’s residence in Delaware, or Nanzi Polizei’s casa in San Francisco, or Harriet Reid’s hacienda in Nevada.
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There is plenty of room on the grounds of the white house to set up tents and porta potties to accommodate these political refugees.
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the boRAT could stop this today if she would just pick up the phone and tell the presidents of Mexico and the other Central American that he is cutting off aid and trade with them.
For you LisaC:
http://www.priestsforlife.org/library/4377-caesar-must-obey-god