Good morning, and Happy Sunday! Here were my top five favorite political cartoons this week. Be sure to vote for your fav in the poll at the bottom of this post!
by Gary Varvel at Townhall.com…
by Walt Handelsman at GoComics.com…
by Glenn McCoy at Townhall.com…
by Ken Catalino at Townhall.com…
by Matt Davies at GoComics.com…
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Maybe we should stop being so frustrated that we have more murders of cops, and more killings by cops than anybody else in the world – and maybe we should start learning about the issue and doing something about it. Here is a good start.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120639/new-york-police-trace-ismaaiyl-brinsley-gun-georgia-arrowhead-shop
I love the way that Jesus’ face represents the manger scene as well. Very dramatic, but then again, it was. :)
No EGV,
It shows criminals can always get guns, laws or not. Didn’t we just see that in Australia? I thought all guns had been turned in? How could a deranged fanatic get his hands on one and take hostages?
Maybe we need to address the real problem.
http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/22/violent-crime-not-police-abuse-is-the-real-threat-to-black-americans/
Mary –
I’m sorry – I don’t want to give the impression that all gun violence will go away with better laws – just a lot of it.
Australia vs US rates below. They have stricter gun laws, and it appears they have a heck of a lot less gun deaths. Again, common sense.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime
Common sense indeed EGV,
http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/
Please tell me though, how did that fanatic in Australia get his hands on a gun?
100% agree Mary –
I’ve asked you this before – are you then advocating that the US pass and follow the swiss gun laws? I’m assuming by touting their gun culture, you agree with these changes – I’ll copy directly from the article you yourself posted – so this is what you want?
“But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.
The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes.”
EGV,
If we could have the responsible gun culture they have…yes. Unfortunately that is not likely.
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2049136,00.html
Mary –
We could start with this set of laws.
So you agree with their regulations and laws surrounding guns?
I gotta vote for #2 this week, just because of the fact that the television is bigger than the Christmas tree.
EGV,
What set of laws are you talking about?
Mary –
Here is our typical argument about guns.
Me: We need better gun laws because we have way too many deaths
You: Look at the Swiss! Look at all the guns they have and how they don’t have as many deaths
Me: Okay – fine – should we adopt their gun laws? Here is a rundown!
You: Oh my goodness – what are you talking about? You crazy liberal! We can’t have all those laws!
Me: Okay – so you are okay with all the extra gun deaths?
You: But look at the Swiss!
I don’t think you get it.
EGV,
May I remind you that you raised the subject of gun laws in this country.
You pointed out that Australia has decreased gun violence after passing gun control laws and confiscating weapons, which you proclaim as “common sense”, so I respond by pointing out the Swiss and their gun culture. I’m trying to get across to you that it is not as simplistic as passing laws and confiscation. Criminals will always get weapons and legal gun ownership does not turn a society into murderous maniacs. BTW, any idea how that gunman in Australia got his hands on a weapon and took hostages?
EGV, I am for common sense and responsibility with weapons and I have taken stances, such as in the George Zimmerman case, that did not endear me to a lot of people, especially on this blog. Yes folks legally you can follow someone, and carry a gun while doing it. However, you better be prepared for some very dire consequences if someone is injured or killed.
I have gotten into a lot of internet debates where people are outraged when I tell them they can’t play Rambo because someone is trespassing on their property or is in their garage. There will be legal consequences.
Gun ownership comes with responsibility, and a very good knowledge of the law. This is what I support. I support the police chief of Detroit advising citizens to arm and protect themselves in their homes. It might make a thief or rapist think twice before breaking into a house. I’m sure they do before breaking into a Swiss home.
Now I hope you finally “get it”.
Why do people insist that ‘criminals will always get weapons” when it is clear that in other countries, this isn’t the case – unless a person is arguing that America is simply a nation of immoral beasts. How do we have so many more criminals – and controlling the supply of guns is simply a non-starter because, even though it works in other countries, it certainly won’t here.
Has the entire right wing of this country been bought off by the NRA?
Would it kill us all to better regulate gun purchases? Certainly not – and not doing so leads to violence like we’ve seen.
Mary,
A certain part of the population just look to government to solve problems. They are so government-centric that it never crosses their minds that should ever have to provide for their own security. Reality tells us that only a small fraction of the murders in the US are committed by citizens using legally owned firearms. But statists like Ex-RINO look to government regulation as the answer to everything and anything that ails society. Obamacare is an example of that same attitude where they pass laws and regulations on everybody (for our own good) even though they admit these regulations do not solve the root cause of the problem.
EGV,
Criminals will be able to obtain a lot of things, including your identity, despite the strictest of laws. BTW, if you use Amazon like I do, there’s a good possibility your credit card and password were recently hacked.
Your question concerning crime? I think there are a lot of factors and no simplistic answers.
My favorite cartoon this week is number 5. It is astonishing that we have had either a Bush or a Clinton elected president in 5 of previous seven elections and a Bush and a Clinton are favorites for each of the political parties again this upcoming cycle. How can people be so stupid?
I vote for a Clinton and Bush – free future! No more, please!
The incompetence level of Obama staggers me on a daily basis. I ask myself in disbelief how the man could invite a race-hustler like Al Sharpton to the White House for ‘advice’? The answer I come up with is that Al Sharpton is somebody that Obama is comfortable with being around. Obama surrounds himself with cronies and hustlers cause he knows he can ‘deal’ with them and get them to tow the line and never criticize Obama or disagree with him. If he was genuinely interested in resolving racial problems he would invite people like Alveda King or Ben Carson.
Hi ts,
Have you forgotten what happened to Ben Carson when he dared give Obama some sound advise at that Prayer Breakfast? Obama’s IRS brownshirts paid Dr. Carson a visit.
Narcissists do not graciously accept advise, much less criticism. I knew Dr. Carson’s goose was cooked as I watched Obama silently fume.
Der Fuehrer only wants yes men and women. The “Rev” Al Charlatan is made to order.
George Bush invited Al Sharpton to the white house to talk through issues.
And quite frankly, Al Sharpton seems to have a lot more respect within the black community than conservative flavor-of-the-month Ben Carson. Plus, with Carson’s comments comparing gay sex to bestiality and child abuses – I can see why the white house would keep him at arm’s length.
EGV,
Yeah, Sharpton is a real sterling character. Nice to know the White House has such high standards. Wonder when Obama will send his IRS brownshirts after him.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/407834/2007-04-13/al-sharptons-rap-sheet
Ex-RINO,
Please find someplace else to Gruber all over people. It’s nasty.
He did not say homosexuality (sodomy) is the equivalent of bestiality. He simply stated that no other groups should be allowed to redefine marriage as anything other than the union of a man and a woman.
Here is the quote from Ben Carson in case you want to untie that knot in your progressives undies.
“Marriage is between a man and a woman. It’s a well-established, fundamental pillar of society and no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality — it doesn’t matter what they are, they don’t get to change the definition.”Even Obama agreed with that when he ran for president (prior to his evolution).
Secondly, Ben Carson and Alveda King both understand that in order to fix race relations we need to FOCUS on fixing our broken education system and give the poor people the opportunity to succeed in their aspirations. Progressives like to ‘gruber’ all over people about the need to pour tax dollars into education but they are joined to the hip with the teacher’s union and the monies would line teachers pensions and no progressive would ever vote for real reforms. The only people that would ever seriously tackle education reform are conservatives because conservatives reforms would put the welfare of the kids first.
Mary –
Didn’t say he was of excellent character – I’m just saying Obama isn’t the first President to have Sharpton there, and probably won’t be the last either.
Mary,
I used to think there was a level of ‘lowness’ that no politician could dare sink to, at least not in public, but the current DemocRATic administration has no conscience. They are all in, and in a bad way.
Thanks for the thoughts truth
“And quite frankly, Al Sharpton seems to have a lot more respect within the black community than conservative flavor-of-the-month Ben Carson.”
You really do like to spread manure don’t you Ex-RINO. So you honestly believe that “the black community” has more respect for a race hustler tax cheat Tawana Brawley crook like Al Sharpton than they do for a young black man that overcame incredible odds to achieve his aspirations and became a world class neurosurgeon. If I were black I wouldn’t let you get away with that BS and really let you have it. But since I am white I will just politely ask you to quit grubering on me.
EGV,
http://thehill.com/opinion/katie-pavlich/228190-katie-pavlich-the-audacity-of-al-sharpton
I don’t really see why anyone would pretend that asking for some accountability and reason when it comes to excessive use of police authority is equivalent to killing police officers. And I don’t really understand the portrayal of de Blasio as somehow supportive of violence against police, or right there in line with “thugs” and “murderers,” simply because he does not blindly support police officers in whatever they may do. I mean, for pity’s sake, even George W. Bush couldn’t bring himself to side with the NYPD in the Eric Garner situation.
It is absolutely possible to hold an incredible amount of respect for police officers and to still expect them to meet certain standards. A deranged lunatic killed his ex-girlfriend, traveled several states away to Brooklyn, assassinated two police officers in cold blood, and then killed himself. This is a tragic and terrible thing. But it does not mean that there must be total silence when it comes to the abuses, or alleged abuses, of a police force against the society it is sworn to protect. People have a right to criticize their own governments, and sometimes they are even right to do so.
I agree Alexandra. But the Michael Brown case that was used to launch these protests was really bad example to use. I am much more concerned that they get trained in how to keep otherwise non-violent situations from escalating. Like they need training in how to prevent shooting kids with toy guns because they roll up and open fire without first observing or giving people a chance to respond. For Christ’s sake, they killed a kid in a WalMart in Ohio last year who was just a customer that found an unopened air soft gun on a shelf and walked around the store with it (and that kind of thing happens several times a year). And in these cases the grand jury failed to indite. So there is a need for reform but the people like Al Sharpton and Eric Holder and president Obama and the accomplice media that used the Michael Brown case it to incite people for political gain is shameless. There is enough real injustice going on every day that needs to be addressed but these fools don’t even care about that.
Hi Alexandra,
I couldn’t agree more. Police officers should be held to very high standards.
As I stated before, I think Garner accidentally suffocated. He was an enormous man, the officers brought him down and did not believe him when he said he couldn’t breathe. As officers they have likely heard this before, then someone tried to escape. They do not view this situation medically as I would. I’m certain this was a tragic accident and they were as shocked as anyone at what happened. I was also highly critical of EMS.
DeBlasio said he warns his bi racial son to be careful of police…despite the fact he trusts his son’s safety to the NYPD.
I found this source as well.
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/nypd-shootings-brooklyn-police/2014/12/22/id/614394/
I think its more involved than his not giving blind support.
“A deranged lunatic killed his ex-girlfriend, traveled several states away to Brooklyn, assassinated two police officers in cold blood, and then killed himself.”
And since then deranged people have opened fire on police in Los Angeles and Florida and North Carolina.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/26/police-shooting-of-pre-teen-in-cleveland
]
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/breaking-video-finally-released-cops-shooting-man-toy-gun-wal-mart/
The job is dangerous but if they are this quick to the trigger when rolling up on people where no crime has been committed then they should AT A MINUMUM lose their jobs as cops and lose their firearms permit. This is wreckless.
The biggest problem as I see it is that the ‘bad’ cops are not held accountable for unreasonable use of force. That gives ‘all’ cops a bad name.
Here is an example of ‘really bad’ cops in New Jersey. They are actually a menace and needed to taken off the streets and put in jailhttp://libertyviral.com/want-to-see-some-cops-get-busted-and-thrown-in-jail-after-they-punched-a-guy/#
That guy did nothing wrong and he was facing five years in jail because people would take the word of those bad cops and the suppressed video hadn’t come out. It was almost as if the cops were looking to kill the guy if they could and that is why they kept yelling “quit going for my gun”. That is scary.
Hi ts,
My brother will be the first to acknowledge the more than a few bad apples, and a few set ups like what your describe. He personally knew of such cases. Big Joe always maintained that if the cops are out to get you..they will. Guilty or not. He would advise anyone who thinks the police are pressuring them, i.e. constant questioning, to get an attorney and fast, however innocent you may actually be.
I’m very fortunate in that my brother has given me such interesting information and perspectives, and has completely changed my thinking on a lot of situations, such as the George Zimmerman case.
How many school shootings have there been in the US since Sandy Hook for instance? How many in the UK? Australia? Switzerland? Raw numbers may be misleading so per head of population would be best. Does the number of guns per person plus the laxity of controls = more gun deaths per person?
Reality,
Good point about Switzerland. With their gun culture you would think school shootings would be rampant.
Maybe it isn’t the ownership of guns that drives people to kill.
I have heard of schoolchildren in China slashed and murdered by beserk killers using knives and axes. I also recall an incident of schoolchildren being gunned down in Scotland but I know nothing of Scotland’s gun laws.
How many Swiss carry small arms on their person on a daily basis?
How many Chinese schoolchildren have been slashed and how many have actually died in those events? How many deaths have occurred in school shootings in the US?
I think it’s fairly obvious that the rampant and unfettered ownership of guns means there are more gun deaths. However, I think that both the cause and the effect are largely influenced by a mindset which needs addressing.
Reality –
I’ll save you some time.
Mary loves the guns in Switzerland, but she doesn’t believe in the gun control – even though she’ll throw out that they have a lot of guns, and not much violence.
Reality,
I wouldn’t know and what difference would it make? If I’m a deranged killer and there’s a gun of ANY type in my home, what’s to stop me from opening fire on the street or in a building?
Also deranged killers don’t need guns to commit mass murder
http://www.voicenews.com/articles/2012/12/14/news/doc50cb9a4c85017667515931.txt
As for China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%9312%29
One could argue that the rampant and unfettered ownership of knives and cleavers, as well as access to explosives, means there are more deaths related to explosives, as well as knives and cleavers.
So now you think explosives should be open slather too?
Pretty much the same number died from stabbing in China as by gun at Sandy Hook. How many have died in school stabbings in China since then? How many in school shootings in the US in the same period?
It is interesting, as Ex-GOP has alluded to, that every time this topic comes up you strive to bring as many distractions and diversions in as you can. The bottom line is that an unfettered gun culture delivers a proportionately higher gun death rate by murder, suicide and accident (like the mom who has just been shot dead by her own toddler in a Walmart). The civil and political structures are so entrenched across all levels of society, politics and the law nowadays such that a fascist or communist regime can’t be established, therefore a rampant gun culture and those who support it are anachronistic.
Reality,
You asked, I answered.
Explosives can be concocted any number of ways with legal items, i.e. gasoline and fertilizer. It would be hard to stop someone determined to set one off..resulting in mass murder.
I just pointed out to you that when deranged killers want to strike, they will. We recently saw that in Australia despite their gun confiscation and gun control laws.
I would say that mom being shot by her toddler was the result of appalling carelessness on her part by letting her child access her purse when she knew there was a deadly weapon in it.
Kind of like parents letting a toddler have access to knives, power tools, or electrical outlets. I’m sure you agree the problem is not knives, power tools and electrical outlets…its parental irresponsibility.
EGV,
So you remain confused about my stance on guns?
Kindly reread my 12:08PM post of Dec. 28.
Indeed these things do happen. But how often in countries other than the US? As I said, the cause and effect are indicative of a mindset which needs addressing.
Yes, carelessness by the mother. How often do such things happen in the US compared to the UK, Australia or Switzerland?
If you don’t think that tighter control of guns and a reduction in the number of guns would lead to a reduction in gun deaths why do you argue for tighter abortion laws, anti-abortion legislation and clinic closures?
How do gun death rates and abortion rates compare between the US, UK, Australia and Switzerland?
I don’t think EGV is confused about your stance on guns, I’d hazard its more that he finds your stance on guns confused.
Reality,
I would have no idea how often this happens in other countries. Do we know how many children are electrocuted, burned, or are injured or killed by cars as compared to other countries? Tragedies happen.
BTW, there’s no shortage of gun laws
http://smartgunlaws.org/tracking-state-gun-laws-2014-developments/
I fail to see the connection between abortion and gun control. However, I might ask that if you think laws won’t stop abortion, then why would you think laws would stop guns?
EGV finds my stance confused? He would.
Mary –
I see your argument – it just doesn’t make sense. I still believe you are essentially arguing that Americans are more evil than any other country in this world – because you are arguing that things that have worked elsewhere will certainly not work here.
I believe in the good of Americans and believe that while we can’t eliminate murders, we would greatly decrease them with better NATIONWIDE gun laws.
You are ignoring that fact that electricity and cars are common in all western nations. Rampant gun ownership is not. Should anyone be permitted to instal whatever sort of electrical system in their homes that they see fit? Should driving be unregulated?
I fail to see the connection between abortion and gun control. – so you don’t think abortion should be controlled? Why do you agitate for such then?
However, I might ask that if you think laws won’t stop abortion, then why would you think laws would stop guns? – laws won’t stop abortion, but they can reduce womens ability to access them and lead to a complete lack of availability in some situations. Gun laws would also reduce access and make them unavailable in some situations. Then again, women could travel over the borders to access the abortion they need. Would intending murderers be able to coerce their intended victims over the border if gun laws were tightened do you think? There’s also the fact that abortion is a victimless act while gun violence isn’t.
EGV finds my stance confused? He would. – you seem confused.
Idaho –
2 year old boy reached into his mom’s purse at a Wal-Mart, fired the gun, and killed the mom.
I’m sure NRA will come out with a press release that people will now want to ban guns, and we’ll have a surge in sales of 20%.
Reality,
Not the point. People are killed by electricity and cars. As you can see we have gun laws, just as there are laws regulating electricity and cars. However, people disregard laws, resulting in injury and death. Sometimes accidents just happen.
I agree there should also be abortion laws. If they result in closing clinics and restricting access, great. You support laws against guns. If they result in less ownership and access, great.
“you seem confused” Project much?
Mary
We heavily regulate electricity and cars, and we see a lot less deaths as a result. Read up on the auto industry in Mexico, the safety laws we have that they don’t, and the result of it.
EGV,
I’m sure you’ll agree that mom should not have allowed a toddler to access her deadly weapon. What if this child had picked up a box of wood matches mom had left laying around and severely burned himself? Would you argue for match control, or parental responsibility?
EGV 8:56PM
I don’t know how I can make it more simple for you to understand. As you can see we have gun laws. Also, I have pointed out to you cultural factors that have nothing to do with anyone being evil.
EGV,
There are less deaths, but still accidents, injuries, and deaths.
People may abide by laws..or not. People will still be careless and irresponsible. Accidents will happen despite anyone’s best efforts.
Mary –
I don’t about the hypotheticals. I do know about the reality, which is a two year shot his mother and killer her today.
I don’t know what cultural factors exist in the US that don’t exist elsewhere – other countries have similar music and TV – maybe we have too much of a militaristic police environment?
Again, we insist on ignoring what works elsewhere, and people literally die for that.
People die from diseases Mary. shall we stop vaccinations?
Why do you feel the need to ignore the point? Electricity and cars are common in all western nations. Rampant gun ownership is not. Electricity and cars are regulated in all, including the US. But not guns. And who has the highest rate of death by guns?
Why do you think it worthwhile to attempt to stop abortion but not to stop gun deaths? Abortion is a victimless act, gun violence isn’t. Let’s do the work where it’s needed.
“you seem confused” Project much? – not at all. It’s an observation. EGV isn’t confused by your stance on guns. He doesn’t find your stance on guns confusing to him. He finds your stance on guns confused. Or is that too confusing for you?
Accidents will happen despite anyone’s best efforts. – what percentage of gun deaths are accidents? What percentage of electrocutions, burnings and motor vehicle deaths are malicious?
EGV,
What if that mother had died in a house fire started by her child having access to matches? Would you blame the matches..or the lack of adult supervision? Would her death be any less tragic?
I think violence is influenced by any number of factors, and its not as simplistic as the presence or absence of guns.
As I pointed out I have advocated for gun responsibility and knowledge of the law and have not endeared myself to people in the process.
Its frightening the people who think they can play Rambo..or cop as we saw with George Zimmerman. We saw the case of the man in Michigan who was terrified by a drunken woman pounding on his front door and opened fire, killing her. He is in prison and belongs there. Yes he’s a decent family man. Yes he was frightened. Call 911, barricade the door if possible, have your gun ready should the person break in. The woman did not pose a threat to his life at that point. Again, good judgment and knowledge of the law.
These are the issues that have to be addressed and what I advocate. Just as people have to responsibly handle a very deadly weapon like a car, there are those who will not, and someone will die as a result.
Reality,
Um, not all diseases can be vaccinated against.
I gave you a link showing gun laws in this country. They exist.
Who has the highest death rate from motor vehicles?
Why do you consider it worthwhile to stop gun ownership but not abortion? Abortion is “victimless”? A matter of perspective Reality
Goodness Reality you are sounding even more confused.
What percentage of burns, electrocutions, and car accidents are malicious? Hard to say. “Accidents” can be arranged. You know, like arson, tampering with someone’s brakes.
“What if this child had picked up a box of wood matches mom had left laying around and severely burned himself? Would you argue for match control, or parental responsibility?”
Mary,
Seriously, if they could pass a law for match control they would.
Um, not all diseases can be vaccinated against. – and based on your theory we shouldn’t bother vaccinating against any of them.
I gave you a link showing gun laws in this country. They exist. – yes we know they exist. The point is they are inadequate and to an extent, ineffectual.
Who has the highest death rate from motor vehicles? – it’s higher in the US than in the UK, Australia or Switzerland. Seat belt laws anyone?
Why do you consider it worthwhile to stop gun ownership but not abortion? – accidental and intentional gun deaths are tragic, abortions are not.
Abortion is “victimless”? A matter of perspective Reality – I think you mean it’s a realistic perspective.
Goodness Reality you are sounding even more confused. – it’s now obvious you got left behind some time back.
What percentage of burns, electrocutions, and car accidents are malicious? Hard to say. “Accidents” can be arranged. You know, like arson, tampering with someone’s brakes. – if you wish to claim that the death rate and the percentage of malicious incidents of electrocution, burns and road deaths are in any way comparable to those perpetrated with guns go right ahead.
“What if this child had picked up a box of wood matches mom had left laying around and severely burned himself? Would you argue for match control, or parental responsibility?” – leaving no one lying dead in a pool of blood.
Seriously, if they could pass a law for match control they would. – if matches were causing as many deaths as guns even you’d probably be agitating for regulations.
Reality, I wouldn’t be agitating for regulations, I would be calling for education and common sense. People who have toddlers should keep matches out of the reach of the toddlers. And the lady at Walmart should have carried a gun that had a safety and that required the bullet to be chambered before it could be fired. A toddler wouldn’t chamber a bullet in my gun even if they somehow got their hands on it when I wasn’t around. In fact, I don’t think I know any 10 year olds that could chamber a bullet in my handgun and it is a very small 9mm that could easily fit into a purse. Education and common sense is what is needed. But there will always be people who learn lessons the hard way.
Reality,
LOL. Sure, we shouldn’t vaccinate.
So you acknowledge we do have gun laws. And according to the link more are being passed. Maybe there are factors other than lack of laws contributing to the problem?
Uh Reality, we have seat belt laws. Yet despite our laws and regulations we have the highest motor vehicle death rate? Obviously we must put an end to car ownership. Too many motor vehicles in too many hands. Personally I would like to see much tougher drunk driving laws. People do not take this seriously enough.
Again Reality, rather or not abortion is tragic or victimless is a matter of perspective.
I made no such claim that malicious burns, electrocutions, and car accidents are comparable to malicious gun deaths. I said we can’t know how many are in fact the result of malicious behavior. As I said, “accidents” can be arranged, and that includes with guns as well.
“leaving no one dead in a pool of blood”. I think that would fall under parental responsibility. Just like no child scarred or dead from playing with matches or an electrical socket.
How many people carry matches with malicious intent truthseeker? When was the last convenience store robbery undertaken with the threat of striking a light?
So everyone should be restricted to the model of firearm you possess then truthseeker?
But there will always be people who learn lessons the hard way. – so it would seem. Like the “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” folk.
Maybe there are factors other than lack of laws contributing to the problem? – something EGV has put to you more than once. I don’t recall your response.
Uh Reality, we have seat belt laws. Yet despite our laws and regulations we have the highest motor vehicle death rate? – US laws are not as tight as in those other countries. You know, like the gun laws. Says it all really.
Obviously we must put an end to car ownership. Too many motor vehicles in too many hands. Personally I would like to see much tougher drunk driving laws. People do not take this seriously enough. – according to your theory in support of unfettered gun ownership it wouldn’t make any difference, so why bother.
Again Reality, rather or not abortion is tragic or victimless is a matter of perspective. – you speak of perspective, how droll.
I made no such claim that malicious burns, electrocutions, and car accidents are comparable to malicious gun deaths. I said we can’t know how many are in fact the result of malicious behavior. As I said, “accidents” can be arranged, and that includes with guns as well. – I stand by what I said.
“leaving no one dead in a pool of blood”. I think that would fall under parental responsibility. Just like no child scarred or dead from playing with matches or an electrical socket. – how many are scarred or dead from those causes compared to guns?
What’s interesting Mary, is that the seat belt laws and road death rates are not vastly different between the US, the UK and Australia while there are vast differences in both their gun laws and their death rates by guns. Says it all really.
Reality,
No, in fact I have suggested other factors, such as cultural, on more than one occasion.
Well, do these other countries have the same number of vehicles on the road? Do people drive as often? I noticed in Germany people do a lot of biking, walking, and public transportation. Again Reality, various factors. All that aside, you must admit we have no shortage of motor vehicle laws.
I never said anything about “unfettered” gun ownership.
“you speak of perspective, how droll”. Yeah, whatever.
Please quote me making the claim that malicious burns, electrocutions, and car accidents are comparable to malicious gun deaths.
I don’t know how many children are scarred or dead from burns and electrical injury as compared to guns, car accidents, disease, mistreatment….
Reality,
Get it straight. Do we have a higher motor vehicle death rate or not?
Also, other factors. Do these countries have the same number of drivers? Are there the same number of vehicles on the road? Are traffic laws stricter or more lenient?
Any idea how that crazed gunman in Australia got his hands on a gun and took hostages?
“Says it all, really”. Not quite.
The data looked at per head of population, per number of motor vehicles and per distance travelled. Across all three parameters the US has a rate markedly but not vastly higher than in the others. US seat belt laws are markedly but not vastly less severe than in the UK and Australia.
The US has vastly less tight gun control laws than the UK and Australia and a vastly higher gun death rate than them.
“don’t restrict gun access because….. electricity!” starts to sound a bit swivel-eyed after a while Mary.
And if Australia didn’t have such tight gun control laws the rate of such incidents may be as high as in the US. But such is not the case.
“How many people carry matches with malicious intent truthseeker? When was the last convenience store robbery undertaken with the threat of striking a light?”
Reality, I saw a video of a convenience store robbery with malicious arson just a few weeks ago in Ferguson. And for all we know Michael Brown could have easily used the threat to burn down the store he robbed when he was molesting the store owner in order to intimidate him and get him to comply with his thievery.
“So everyone should be restricted to the model of firearm you possess then truthseeker?”
No, not everyone Reality. But it could be suggested as an option to people who are worried about kids getting their hands on it.
You have the link to that video truthseeker?
“For all we know…” – has anyone claimed such happened?
How many hold-ups used matches compared to guns?
“An option…” – well there goes your suggested remedy.
Reality,
So our rates are “markedly higher” in the United States. How much stricter can seat belt laws be? If the seat belt alarm in your car doesn’t drive you nuts you can be stopped by police and ticketed for not wearing one and heaven help you if a cop spots an unrestrained child in your car. Still people, like my husband, violate the law. Imagine that.
Again, other factors. In Germany drivers are far more courteous and drunk driving laws are rigidly enforced..no exceptions. Also you might get a notice in the mail that a speed camera caught you speeding, along with a ticket. So yes, some countries do have stricter laws and enforcement which may well factor into a lower accident/ death rate.
I would say you are a tad swivel eyed Reality because I never said anything about not restricting gun access or compared it to electricity.
Doesn’t answer my question. How did this gunman get his hands on a gun and take hostages? Where did the gun come from. Could others access guns as well? Is there a criminal underworld source?
So our rates are “markedly higher” in the United States. – yes.
How much stricter can seat belt laws be? – somewhat. In some states you cannot be pulled over simply because you are seen to be not wearing one.
you can be stopped by police and ticketed for not wearing one – see above. Also New Hampshire doesn’t require wearing the seat belt.
Again, other factors. In Germany drivers are far more courteous – are they? Where is your quantitative or qualitative analysis of this? Or could it be that speed limits are implemented rigorously, including the use of radar.
and drunk driving laws are rigidly enforced..no exceptions. – yes, o.o5% in both Germany and Australia. Similar road death rates too.
Also you might get a notice in the mail that a speed camera caught you speeding, along with a ticket. So yes, some countries do have stricter laws and enforcement which may well factor into a lower accident/ death rate. – really? Stricter laws and enforcement have a positive effect.! Well who woulda thought!!! Just not when it comes to guns I guess.
I would say you are a tad swivel eyed Reality because I never said anything about not restricting gun access or compared it to electricity. – you keep arguing that because people can be electrocuted there shouldn’t be any gun control laws. Do you therefore think there should be no controls over electrical installation and use in industrial, commercial or residential settings?
Doesn’t answer my question. How did this gunman get his hands on a gun and take hostages? Where did the gun come from. Could others access guns as well? Is there a criminal underworld source? – I don’t know how he got the gun. Yes others could do so. Yes, there likely is an underworld supply. So tell me, what is the rate of this type of incident in Australia compared to the US? Do tell. What is the rate of gun ownership in Australia? Go on, show me that the tighter gun control laws have had no impact.
“An option…” – well there goes your suggested remedy
Reality, what you fail to understand is that the success or failure of any ‘remedy’ is also dependent upon common sense. It is true that it takes strength and a familiarity with guns in order to chamber (rack) the first round and make the gun usable. But if this lady had left the gun in her purse with the first round already chambered then the fact that she had my model of gun would not have altered the consequences.
You have the link to that video truthseeker?
Reality, here is the video of the Ferguson protester committing arson.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/protester-who-advocates-peace-charged-with-setting-fire-at-berkeley/article_ad4006c5-06ab-5b7e-8a7f-3fd2ed4dbbcb.html
“For all we know…” – has anyone claimed such happened?
Reality, plenty of thugs use arson as a ‘weapon’ to intimidate.
We don’t all drive Volvos truthseeker. And not all firearms operate like yours.
A video of a protestor committing arson. Interesting. Doesn’t quite match your claim of “I saw a video of a convenience store robbery with malicious arson” does it.
plenty of thugs use arson as a ‘weapon’ to intimidate. – your evidence? Not holding my breath…..
“How many hold-ups used matches compared to guns?”
Probably about the same number arsons that used guns instead fire.
How many arsons per year? How many gun murders? How many people get a loaded gun waved in their face? How many get a struck match waved in their face?
You just don’t get it. The statistics are meaningless. How many people die in fires each year? Irrelevant. I know it is hard for you to use reason but you should try and understand that any ‘remedy’ is also dependent upon common sense.
“We don’t all drive Volvos truthseeker. And not all firearms operate like yours.”
Actually most semi-automatic handguns do operate like mine.
Ah, so you accept that your claim is defenseless.
Obviously common sense and gun ownership don’t occupy the same space at the same time. Hence the need for controls.
Not all firearms are semi-automatic handguns.
And no single remedy works for all problems. That’s where common sense comes in. In this instance if this lady at Walmart had a semi-automatic without the chamber racked in her purse she would not be dead.
This instance is just one of so very many, all different. It is obvious that common sense has a unique ability to not come in when it comes to guns. Your ‘remedy’ would not address the appalling rate of gun murder.
“Your ‘remedy’ would not address the appalling rate of gun murder.”
But it would an effective to stop shootings by kids who stumble onto guns. More effective than any law you could pass because you can’t legislate common sense.
If mom didn’t have the gun it wouldn’t have happened. Laws could do that.
Happy new year to all!
And mom could and been carjcaked and baby taken in the Walmart parking lot and she wouldn’t have been able to defend herself if she didn’t have a gun.
Per Guttemacher..”The estimated annual number of deaths from unsafe abortion declined from 56,000 in 2003 to 47,000 in 2008″. If moms didn’t commit abortion these deaths wouldn’t have happened. Laws could do that.
Reality, What about Ashley Lewis, a 17-year-old high school junior from St. Louis, Missouri? Ashley died after developing a blood clot in her lung, because she was wearing the birth control patch for six months. Ashley would be alive today if we passed a law that outlaws the birth control patch.
Reality,
What about Julie Hennessey, a 31-year-old Irish woman who died of a blood clot after taking the birth control pill? She would be alive today if she didn’t have birth control pills. A law could do that.
I agree with a lot of what you say re: police over-reach, truthseeker. I think that it is very scary how little accountability there seems to be in police departments across the nation. I remember that video from a few years ago of the BART incident where police officers shot Oscar Grant, who was restrained face-down on the floor, killing him. That officer was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, which still seems insulting but at least it went to trial. I think it is shockingly offensive that Eric Garner’s case did not even go to trial.
Mary, as far as de Blasio saying that he teaches his son to be cautious of police even though he relies on them to protect his son – I think that’s true! That is what makes the situation so terrible. The police are WHO WE RELY ON to keep us safe, and who we want to rely on, and who we have no choice but to rely on – and yet we also must know that they are a threat to us. Some of us, glaringly, more than others. Not just when we are criminals, but even when we are not. The problem with these incidents is not just that people die, but that in so many of them, the police face no accountability and often even no trial. I commented earlier about my own reasons for being legitimately distrustful of the NYPD, even as a young, white, privileged woman. I cannot imagine how much more skeptical I would be if I were a black man, nor what I could ever hope to teach my son if he were a black man: that if you need help, you need to call the police – but you also need to know that, on seeing you, they may just assume you are the problem, and kill you. That would be a terrifying thing to have to go through life knowing. And it is a shame. It’s a shame that we expect LESS of our police than we do of our everyday citizens, rather than MORE.
I don’t know what de Blasio has said that people find so offensive. I really wish someone would share a quote with me. I mean that geniunely. I know that de Blasio has challenged union leaders to comb through transcripts of all his statements and find anything offensive but I have not yet seen anyone come up with anything. The unions’ complaints seem to center on the “latitude” given to protesters, but excuse me? What exactly should we do with protesters then? They applied for the correct permits, assembled peacefully, marched, and went home. A handful broke off from the protest and caused damage, and were arrested without any public outcry whatsoever. What exactly would have been an appropriate way to avoid giving the protesters such apparently excessive “latitude?” Do we no longer have the right to peaceably assemble and protest?
The crux of the allegedly anti-police argument is an expectation that police uphold the Constitution, and stop killing unarmed people; or at least face some sort of accountability and investigation when they regrettably DO kill unarmed people in the line of duty. These are not absurdly high demands and I find it ridiculous that the police union is behaving as though de Blasio called police officers “pigs” and put a price out on the head of every NYPD officer. De Blasio did not somehow “make” this happen just by “allowing” people to be angry at the brutal escalation of the NYPD.
“What exactly should we do with protesters then?”
As you know there were several instances of these ‘protesters’ blocking the streets and causing public nuisance. And if they fail to disperse then I would hope that the police would forcefully arrest them for disorderly conduct and public nuisance.
What would you have us do with these people Alexandra?
“It’s a shame that we expect LESS of our police than we do of our everyday citizens, rather than MORE.”
I think we do expect MORE and not LESS from our police; and that is why we are having this discussion.
Protesters who caused a disturbance were arrested, truthseeker, and I don’t believe that de Blasio or anyone else opposed their arrest.
As for your second point, I suppose I mean that the public does expect more from police, hence the protests and general public discourse; but the police unions seem to believe that this is offensive and that the bar for them should be LOWER than it is for the citizens they protect. And more than that, they apparently want our elected officials to prevent us from having these discussions.
I do not see police discouraging our elected officials from having this discussion. I see them complaining about DeBlasio. DeBlasio is their commander and IMO opinion the police are justified in expressing their outrage when they see him cozy up to police haters and race-baiters like Al Sharpton.
“plenty of thugs use arson as a ‘weapon’ to intimidate. – your evidence? Not holding my breath…..”
Reality, here is your evidence. These thugs used arson as a weapon to intimidate….You can exhale now.
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2014/10/01/final-grouping-of-ironworkers-401-members-plead.html?page=all
Reality,
All cars come equipped with seat belts. There are laws requiring their use. Now do you suppose a little personal responsibility would go a long way?
It was my observation while in Germany and frankly I was surprised. Also the observation of my nephew who lived there several years. Road rage is unheard of, from what local residents told me, in fact they didn’t know what I was referring to.
Strict laws mean fewer deaths? But didn’t you say our death rate is “markedly higher” but not vastly higher? Shouldn’t our death rate be “vastly higher” if stricter laws in other countries are making such a difference?
Where did I ever say I opposed gun laws and their enforcement? Also where did I say there should be no gun laws? I think your eyes are still swiveling.
So you have no idea where the Australian gunman got his weapon. Apparently weapons can be had by those determined to get them, and there is a criminal enterprise ready to provide them. Imagine that.
Hi Alexandra,
I must disagree. I think DeBlasio making a public statement like that was a slap in the face to NYPD officers, especially since the same officers are his family’s bodyguards.
Mary – Been watching the conversation unfold – I think a key takeaway is that you do believe in gun control – at least I am pretty sure. There are weapons I’m sure you can name that you wouldn’t want in society. I’m pretty sure you also don’t believe that anybody in society should have a gun. If you disagree with those things, I’d be interested.
The typical response in these debates are for people to freak out and assume people are talking about full bans, or no regulations at all – I don’t think that’s the case here. I think everyone agrees we should have at least some guns, but there are limits.
So I think the questions I’m left with for you are – do you think the right amount of people have guns – or do you think some people who have guns now shouldn’t have guns – or do you think we’re too restrictive and some people banned now should get guns. Also, do you think we have the right level of guns. Do you think we have guns that are illegal that should be legal, or vice versa?
I believe we should have guns in society. I think there are guns we have now that we shouldn’t have. I think we should better control and regulate how people get guns – there are too many loopholes that allow guns to get sold without proper checks and without proper tracking. I have friends that hunt and I have no issue with that. But I do have issues with people getting guns with crazy magazine sizes with very little background check, tracking, or training. And I believe fully in closing those loopholes on these items.
Will bad people get guns still? Yes. But it is clear from other places that less bad people will get their hands on guns, which will save lives.
Hello and Happy New Year EGV,
I hope you and yours had a Merry Christmas and happy holiday season.
You’re pretty spot on with the first paragraph.
Do I think the “right” amount of people have guns? That’s like asking if I think the “right” amount of people have cars. I have no idea.
Absolutely there are people who have guns that shouldn’t, especially criminals who can obtain one easily. There are people who drive that shouldn’t, there are people walking the streets that shouldn’t.
It would depend on why they are banned from having guns. I would assume its a good reason. If someone is banned from driving, I wouldn’t push car ownership.
I pretty much agree with your last paragraph. Yes I want common sense background checks, tracking, registration, and proper training. We go through background checks all the time, no one has an issue with it, the gov’t doesn’t come after us, in fact we expect it and even conduct background checks of our own.
Hopefully fewer bad people will get their hands on guns, though bad people have always managed to get their hands on a lot of things supposedly illegal.