Factcheck.org confirms Obama lied
Factcheck.org has confirmed Barack Obama voted against the identical version of Born Alive as IL state senator, as was passed overwhelmingly on the federal level and then misrepresented his vote:
Obama opposed the 2001 and 2002 “born alive” bills as backdoor attacks on a woman’s legal right to abortion, but he says he would have been “fully in support” of a similar federal bill that President Bush had signed in 2002, because it contained protections for Roe v. Wade.
We find that, as the [National RIght to Life Committee] said in a recent statement, Obama voted in committee against the 2003 state bill that was nearly identical to the federal act he says he would have supported. Both contained identical clauses saying that nothing in the bills could be construed to affect legal rights of an unborn fetus, according to an undisputed summary written immediately after the committee’s 2003 mark-up session….
A June 30 Obama campaign statement responding to similar claims by conservative commentator William Bennett says that SB 1082 did not contain the same language as the federal BAIPA….
The statement was still on Obama’s website as of this writing, Aug. 25, long after Obama had accused his detractors of “lying”. But Obama’s claim is wrong. In fact, by the time the HHS Committee voted on the bill, it did contain language identical to the federal act.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
And when will the McCain campaign provide a visual ad for this issue? When???
When will the someone stand to Obama and make him pay for calling us liars!
I agree Carder.
The average person needs to see this visually in a timeline with a video of him lying about it.
Over, and over, and over again.
McCain Campaign….helloooooo?
Ahh vindication, finally.
Jill:
Regarding the poll on the left, Tom Ridge is getting the most votes.
This is deceptive because most pro-aborts are voting for him because they know if McCain selects him it will defeat him.
That would make a great commercial!!!!! People that are not following the story about living babies being killed have no idea what is going on! several people i talk to don’t know what Obama stands for and are appauled when i tell them about it!
You edited out the most important part, Jill:
Whether opposing “born alive” legislation is the same as supporting “infanticide,” however, is entirely a matter of interpretation. That could be true only for those, such as Obama’s 2004 Republican opponent, Alan Keyes, who believe a fetus that doctors give no chance of surviving is an “infant.” It is worth noting that Illinois law already provided that physicians must protect the life of a fetus when there is “a reasonable likelihood of sustained survival of the fetus outside the womb, with or without artificial support.”
FactCheck did not “confirm Obama lied,” they confirmed that you are lying.
reality:
If one does not want to protect a live baby, what would you call it? Because FactCheck says it is a matter of interpretation does not make Jill a liar.
Because Obama is not physically there in the room ready to put a pillow over the baby born alive after a botched abortion still makes him guilty for allowing it.
As far as that law already protecting these babies, that’s been discussed and discredited before.
Darn, it’s a sad day when you can’t even count on a flaming liberal group like “factcheck.org” to support the darling of the liberal proaborts… what is this world coming to?
Oh, and “reality”, your view of the “most important part” is just a little bit skewed, IMO. And the IL law you refer to clearly allows the attending physician to deny help to any baby that needs “artificial support” like ALL premies ALWAYS GET…. didn’t you know that?
Of course he didnt know that. He wants to justify his hero sooo badly, he doesnt actually look up or analyze anything.
The sad thing is that it’s right there in his quote, and he can’t even see it.
To quote the pro-aborts USUAL comment:
“Ho-hum, Obama lied…so, what else is new??”
And they want a liar in the White House?…Oh wait, they DID support the adulterer when he was in the White House…so…never mind.
See Right to Life’s response to its vindication at http://www.lifenews.com/nat4217.html
Read the linked Factcheck article in full, not just Jill’s selected quotes, and it makes clear the REAL liars are the ones claiming Obama supports “infanticide”.
PPC, let
Charles, sorry to intrude on your fantasy world, but the vote was in Illinois, not Washington, and was not along “strict party lines” as several Republicans also voted against the bills, primarily due to well-founded concerns expressed by doctors as to potential liability.
But never mind, just go back to holding your ears and sreaming “infanticide”. It is much more fun than having to research or think.
“And they want a liar in the White House?…Oh wait, they DID support the adulterer when he was in the White House…so…never mind.”
You mean an adulterer like John McCain?
Atleast Hillary wasn’t sick and disabled, and at least Bill didn’t leave her for the younger millionare bimbo he was nailing while his wife was bedridden.
PPC,
Yes, the vote was in Illinois. And, yes, the bill contained the exact same language that the federal version contained. And, yes, Obama said he would have supported the Illinois bill if it contained the same language as the federal bill. But, NO, Obama did not support the bill! He voted NO in the committee to bring this matter to a full vote in the State Senate. In doing so he voted YES, for infanticide.
Now take a look at the Illinois committee report where the committee members voted to present the bill to the full state senate. 10 senators voted on the bill, 4 republicans, who voted yes, and 6 democrats, who voted no, including Obama. So, yes, it was along strict party lines.
PPC, you are certainly entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
So he didn’t lie, and yet his campaign actually confirmed that he voted against the BAIPA that was IN FACT identical to the federal law after he said it was NOT identical?
Gosh, even the Obama campaign is willing to admit that he misrepresented what he said, but other pro-aborts aren’t? LOL…ok.
BTW, “misrepresented” is a nice way of saying “lied”: to represent falsely; to fudge: tamper, with the purpose of deception.
From the NY Sun: “Indeed, Mr. Obama appeared to misstate his position in the CBN interview on Saturday when he said the federal version he supported “was not the bill that was presented at the state level.”
His campaign yesterday acknowledged that he had voted against an identical bill in the state Senate….”
http://www.nysun.com/national/obama-facing-attacks-from-all-sides-over-abortion/84059/
Atleast Hillary wasn’t sick and disabled, and at least Bill didn’t leave her for the younger millionare bimbo he was nailing while his wife was bedridden.
Posted by: just saying… at August 27, 2008 3:21 PM
*************************************
Nah, instead he just left a string of women behind him like Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky, Kathleen Willey…and he married not even one of them. Just used them and threw them away like kleenex.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1998/clinton_scandal/49771.stm
But I guess that’s better, huh?
How many years was Bill Clinton in a POW camp before commiting that error? Oh wait…zero.
Maybe it shows that McCain had some trouble readjusting to his life, you know after the whole torture and prison thing.
Watching a bunch of fundamentalist conservatives creating pathetic excuses for blatent adultery is INCREDIBLY amusing.
No! It was those gooks fault he cheated! No! Bill Clinton did it MORE times!
Good show! Carry on!
Will do, Amanda. Take care.
Jill, I was looking on Factcheck.org last week about Obama and the BAIPA. So very glad to see this!
No Amanda, all I was suggesting is that the scenarios are not in fact analogous, which is incredibly clear. No one, including McCain, is trying to justify what he did.
”
Atleast Hillary wasn’t sick and disabled, and at least Bill didn’t leave her for the younger millionare bimbo he was nailing while his wife was bedridden. ”
———————-
Wait…let me get this straight..so, you’re ok with an adulterer IN the White House but not one RUNNING FOR the White House? OK, got it.
Watching a bunch of fundamentalist conservatives creating pathetic excuses for blatent adultery is INCREDIBLY amusing.
Posted by: Amanda at August 27, 2008 3:42 PM
Watching a bunch of left-wing liberals creating pathetic excuses for blatent infanticide is INCREDIBLY amusing. ;)
How many years was Bill Clinton in a POW camp before commiting that error? Oh wait…zero.
So the fact that McCain was a POW excuses this? He can do whatever he wants and it’s A-OK?
My uncle was a Japanese POW during WWII. After his release he returned to the US and to his wife and lived a normal, middle class existance. Yet, according to you guys, it would have been perfectly acceptable for him to ditch his wife and hook up with a wealthy younger woman, simply because he was a POW?? He passed away two years ago. Too bad he didn’t know about all the passes his POW status entitled him!!!!
You need to go back to highschool and work on your reading comprehension skills. What I pointed out was nothing more than what I said – that the two scenarios are different. Bill Clinton did not have the same external factors affecting him as John McCain. Does it excuse it for either? Of course not. But to compare them to each other is folly.
Every scenerio is different, Oliver. Every man who cheats on his wife is coming from a different set of circumstances. The fact that McCain was a POW is not the only difference between him and Bill Clinton. Why, then, did you bring it up???
To run in contrast to the person who implied that Republicans who were upset with Clinton over his infedelity were hypocrites by not opposes McCain on the same grounds.
They are all different, like you said.
Look at the context within which I posted and you’ll see that is the case clearly.
Charles 3:29 you are correct only as to ONE vote on ONE of the MANY “born alive” bills. which were submitted and voted on from 2003 to 2005.
Several “born alive” bills failed again in 2004, with no input from Obama, due to bipartisan concerns about the language. New versions of the bills finally passed in 2005.
The opposition to the many bills that failed was not “along strict party lines”, as concerns were expressed by both parties.
The issue cannot be understood without the extensive research of Eric Zorn reflected in his Chicago Tribune article of August 20, 2008.
The Factcheck article linked above and Zorn conclude, based on the facts, that there is no reasonable basis for any claim that Obama endorsed “infanticide”.
Since claims of “infanticide” are based on emotion rather than fact, further discussion is futile.
Watching a bunch of fundamentalist conservatives creating pathetic excuses for blatent adultery is INCREDIBLY amusing.
No! It was those gooks fault he cheated! No! Bill Clinton did it MORE times!
Good show! Carry on!
Posted by: Amanda at August 27, 2008 3:42 PM
gooks? you use the term gooks? please explain.
Also, I guess your ok then for the libs to go ahead and constantly excuse Bill for what he did since adultry is just part of your free society and if it feels good do it mentality.
PPC,
Case closed. You lose. Shouldn’t you be out scouting for more of your top o’ the news convention stories to bore us with?
Oliver,
So you believe that McCains infedelity is not something to get upset over?
Jill,
Just heard the end of your interview with 710AM NY Radio Host Steve Malsberg, got your website and visited.
Thank you for your dedication and for getting the truth out there. Abortion is the real enemy of our nation’s survival.
The blessing of our Creator is most likely withheld as this national horror continues.
Today’s quote you placed above, by Cardinal Egan is most appropriate and greatly insightful, especially his concluding sentence, “Anyone who dares to defend that they may be legitimately killed because another human being “chooses” to do so or for any other equally ridiculous reason should not be providing leadership in a civilized democracy worthy of the name. ”
May the Living Lord bless you Jill Stanek.
Gosh, sorry Sandy, I thought that Jill came to Denver to report on the Convention. Since she has done very litte Convention reporting, I thought there might some interest in what was happening in Denver, as opposed to Jill’s 42nd “infanticide” post. I guess I was wrong.
I’ll try not not bore you further, so you can enjoy “infanticide” posts nos. 43 through 179, inclusive.
Partially Past Coherence:
And this is your 546,342,342th time you’ve criticized Jill’s posting about the Demon Nation Convention.
Perhaps she’s networking and team building, hmmmmmmmmmmm to become even more effective at destroying abortion?
Sandy 4:59PM
Maybe even worse is libs excusing sexual abuse and assault. Let me see, Clinton’s alleged rape of Juanita Brodderick was a “private matter”.
Columnist Ellen Goodman argued that Bill Clinton’s flashing Paula Jones was “lewd, but not illegal”. That sent a few police officers I knew into fits of laughter.
She also argued that so long as a man stops when told, its not harassment. After all, how can a man know a woman objects unless he tries and is told by the woman to stop? I had to be devilish and write Ms. Goodman asking her if she would have no objections to a man putting his hand up her skirt or down her blouse so long as he stopped when ordered to. Never did get an answer.
Kathleen Willey who accused Clinton of fondling her in the white house was portrayed by Clinton’s minions as obsessed with Clinton and of questionable mental stability.
Liberal feminists maintained a deafening silence.
Clinton continued to enjoy liberal support and prominence in the Democrat Party.
test
HisMan,
PPC has done nothing but insult this site and yet here she is again.
BTW PPC, what have YOU done to enlighten us on what is occuring in Denver? Nothing. You are the one who keeps singing the same song Obamba’s record here. You are obsessed. Get over it. He lied, his camp said he lied.
YEAHHHH Mary!
You are always right on target with your posts. I knew you would swoop in with some of your wonderful insight!!!
From the NRA:
On the Second Amendment, Don
Sandy- no, McCain uses the term “gooks”.
HisMan- NRA guys are trying to compensate for something, dude.
Also, I effing hate guns.
Jill,
Great job on the Drew Mariani Show on Relevant Radio!
Erin,
No actually Amanda did.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/hongop.shtml
John McCain uses the term ‘gook’ freely. Amanda was attempting to be ironic.
Children died and Obama lied.
Lying about a baited piece of legislation is nothing to be angry about. What you should be angry about is the fact that your party is running an someone who is under federal indictment in Alaska. The face of the GOP is old men with big houses, not young men with great kids – like Obama has.
Actually Erin:
Now Erin, should I retort by commenting on how most Feminazi’s are well, ugly? OK, I won’t do that.
I’ve got quite a gun collection and extremely valuable. Auto’s, semi’s, mags, AR’s, M&P’s, etc. Very good investments. No compensation needed, however.
However, there’s quite a few NRA gals as well.
What would they be compensating for? Protection from Liberal wackos, rapists, robbers, home invaders, SoMG and postal workers I guess.
And it took a lowly peasant from DC to challenge the governemnt for not allowing him to protect himself and his family in a city more dangerous that Baghdad, the US Capital.
I’ll tell you this. Pennsylvanians will not forget Obama’s guns and Bibles comment. Of course, Mr. Obama must not be compensating for anything. Perhaps Monica could tell you a thing or two or three or four or five………about that. You think he’s got her number?
All silliness aside Erin, the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Constitution.
So, it’s OK if we kill innocent children in the womb but not arm oursleves against those that would seek to hurt us.
Hello, hello, hello, hello, any body home? No, there all dead, SoMG killed the unborn and the criminals took care of the rest.
HisMan- have you ever been shot?
HisMan- the second amendment also makes clear statements about people bearing arms in a WELL REGULATED MILITIA.
Yo la,
The face of the GOP is old men with big houses, not young men with great kids – like Obama has.
And who do you think creates jobs for young men with kids? The old men with big houses.
Erin,
How are your feelings about guns any different than our feelings about abortion?
I’ll give you a hint: They’re not.
You have experienced pain and heartache at the hands of a gunman with a gun, and you don’t want ANYONE to have them correct? So, because of your bad experience, you wish to not allow anyone else the right to have them. Even though there are people who use guns for sport and find guns to be one of their Constitutional rights they can and WILL exercise.
This is what many, if not, ALL people who are against abortion feel. I know Carla feels this way. Many say that because Carla had a negative experience with abortion that THAT is not reason enough to outlaw it for everyone because there are some people who have abortions and are not bothered by them.
Explain to me NOW why your logic is correct and ours is NOT?
If you shoot someone, every single time you shoot them, they are going to feel tremendous pain and anguish. All the time. No matter what.
Every woman who has an abortion will not feel pain and anguish. I can find you plenty of women who, like me, have no regrets.
I cannot find you a single person who will tell you it was totally fine with them if they got shot.
HisMan- the second amendment also makes clear statements about people bearing arms in a WELL REGULATED MILITIA.
Posted by: Erin at August 27, 2008 8:25 PM
**************************************
Hmmm…so, it’s NOT ok to arm and protect oneself from an intruder in one’s home, but it’s ok to kill an unborn baby in one’s womb.
Good to know.
How many times a week do you really honestly read about someone pulling a gun on an intruder in their home and saving the day?
Now how many times do you read about muggings, drug showdowns, and blatant murder?
If you shoot someone, every single time you shoot them, they are going to feel tremendous pain and anguish. All the time. No matter what.
Every woman who has an abortion will not feel pain and anguish. I can find you plenty of women who, like me, have no regrets.
I cannot find you a single person who will tell you it was totally fine with them if they got shot.
Posted by: Erin at August 27, 2008 9:12 PM
how about considering what the baby feels Erin?
How about thinking what it must feel like to have an arm suctioned off? Then a foot? Then the other leg. Suddenly your eyeball is sucked out along with part of your brain. The next thing you know, you are eviscerated? All the while you are still alive, your heart beating….
Just wondering…….
I think it’s called having empathy for another person in their situation….
Erin,
You can not answer a question with a question. What IS THE DIFFERENCE? ANSWER THE QUESTION. Oh, and P.S. I bet you EVERY baby, if they could communicate at that moment, would communicate the pain and anguish they feel being aborted. All the time. No matter what. But let’s not talk about them. Let’s just stick our heads in the sand and pretend they don’t exist. It’s easier that way, I know.
The face of the GOP is old men with big houses, not young men with great kids – like Obama has.
And Adolf had very nice German Shepherds.
Erin :”Every woman who has an abortion will not feel pain and anguish. I can find you plenty of women who, like me, have no regrets”
Thats interesting because my wife actually has had more pain in her miscarriages than in her C-sections. You say abortion does not hurt at all to some women? They are made of tougher stuff than you and me thats for sure!
Question marks :”So you believe that McCains infedelity is not something to get upset over? ”
Dont misread my posts there. I was merely asserting that it is not a necessary conclusion that belief that John McCain’s infedility is upseting is a required to believe that Bill Clinton’s infedelity is upseting.
Personally? I dont care one way or the other. I want a strong president who will stop the unjustified deaths of millions of preborn children. John McCain is the closest of all.
Where is Jill today?
Edward Cardinal Egan should be praised for his statement concerning remarks by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, as quoted by blog Thoughts and Faith to Share, August 26, 2008
God bless you Cardinal Egan and all clergy who have the courage to speak for LIFE.
http://thoughts-and-faith-to-share.blogspot.com/2008/08/archbishop-cardinal-egan-of-new-york.html
Here are two excellent links that I found at the above mentioned blog (Thoughts and Faith to Share).
Monsignor Philip Reilly, founder of the Helpers of God’s Precious Infants, deliberately called the unborn child, an infant, because the word ‘infant’ literally means ‘not able to speak’. The name of his apostolate is descriptive then of our calling to speak on behalf of the unborn whose lives are unjustly threatened but who cannot speak for themselves.
http://children-deserve-birth.blogspot.com/
Some groups incorporate other forms of street activities with their sidewalk counseling ministries such as picketing, demonstrating, preaching, displaying signs or images, evangelizing passersby or the abortion facility’s staff, guards or escorts. However, in its purest form, sidewalk counseling is about saving a child from certain death and his/her parents from certain harm, one family at a time.
In fact, the term “sidewalk counseling” was devised to counter the media characterization of a group of pro-life advocates in California as demonstrators. This group had set aside their signs and all other external evidence of demonstrating and organized their efforts to be the most effective means of reaching and speaking with people in order to offer alternatives to abortion.
http://sidewalkcounselorsunited.blogspot.com/
Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi
Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is error, truth;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light; and
where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much
seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying to ourselves that we
are born to eternal life.
Amen.
No Erin I have never been shot.
I guess you have and I a not sure what the circumstances were.
My home is very well protected against an intruder and I guarantee you I won’t be the one getting shot if some one tries to break into my house to hurt my wife and my son.
Having said that I would never use a gun to intentionally hurt some one, rob some one or any thing like that.
I am for the use of guns as defensive weapons only and no one will ever take that right away from me, ever.
And your militia quote is liberal hogwash. Or don’t you know that the Supreme Court just ruled on that?
Ah yes, and we are so close to overturning Roe V. Wade, the slaughter of innocent babies in the womb.
I wish there were a way that babies could protect themselves from abortionists.
And your statement that you have no regrets about your abortion proves that you live with a seared conscience.
Where is Jill today?
Posted by: Janet at August 27, 2008 11:06 PM
To clarify…I know where she is… but why have we not heard from her lately?
I cannot find you a single person who will tell you it was totally fine with them if they got shot.
And I cannot find a single baby that was aborted that will tell you that their experience was a positive one.
But I CAN find gunman that have shot people say that their experience was a good one!
Actually,
It’s funny that obama’s kids were brought up. Obviously, I’m the only person in America to feel this way, and I’m sure it has to do with the fact that I don’t take any nonsense from kids (after raising 6 and teaching them for 11 years I’m kind of over the whole “oooooh aren’t they adorable stage), but I wanted to get up on that stage and rip the microphone out of that little ones hand. I kept thinking “Someone call Nanny 911!”
What were they thinking? She held the microphone hostage and kept interrupting her dad when he was trying to read his teleprompter. She even corrected him in public! Probably being hyper critical here, but I just kept thinking “Oh look, his kids are just as arrogant and attention seeking as her parents”
I know, I know…I’m an old curmudgeon!
mk, had I watched it, I would have felt the same way. The Obamas need a dose of Dr. Ray Guarendi!!
MK,
Back at ya! LOL!!!!! Great posts!
Eileen,
I LOVE Ray Guarendi! He’s like Nanny 911 on Catholic Steroids…although I gotta tell ya, sometimes I think even HE is too soft! lol.
Thanks Elizabeth.
When are we doing the zoo?
“I know, I know…I’m an old curmudgeon!”
This is driving me crazy. I learned that word about 9 months ago, and I swear I had never seen it in my life. Now I see it all over the place! I feel like Im crazy….
Oliver,
I can’t tell you how pleased I am to have known something that you didn’t…of course, now you do, but still…for a minute there, I felt quite smart!
Mk,
I appreciate that, but Im sure you know way more than I do really…
And your statement that you have no regrets about your abortion proves that you live with a seared conscience.
Posted by: HisMan at August 27, 2008 11:46 PM
what’s a seared conscience?
I have been shot Erin.
If you shoot someone, every single time you shoot them, they are going to feel tremendous pain and anguish. All the time. No matter what.
I cannot find you a single person who will tell you it was totally fine with them if they got shot.
Posted by: Erin at August 27, 2008 9:12 PM
Depends on where you are being rapidly drilled, or actually being crushed, with copper or lead.
As for the pain, the Belgian Malinois that bit me exactly where that bullet got me, was more painful then that baseball thump, and hot tight skin feeling, you get from being hit with a bullet.
So, if my memory is correct, you’ve had a personal experience with oblivion through the meeting of flesh and lead.
Also, you have sent a human being into oblivion by your will to kill. A abortion. Correct? Which experience came first, you killing a human being by your disrepecting that human’s right to life, or another person disrespecting your right to life? I assmume the human being that tried and failed to introduce you to nothingness has no regrets? Why should he or her have any despair or regrets for trying to own your life?
See any similarity of conscience, between you and the person that had the right to kill you Erin, and obviously failed?
Please delete the above comment. yllas has lost any shred of decency he/she had left.
Now Hal,
This board by its nature is a discussion and debate about the death of human beings. It’s a legitimate question to a person that is in the unique position of having taken life and had her life almost taken.
yllas, Erin was shot and her boyfiend murdered in front of her. I imagine it’s still (and probably always) a raw emotional wound. I don’t think it’s a proper subject to provoke her about. I know to you an abortion is just as bad as murdering someone with a gun, but have some human decency please.
Gee Hal,
Me and that person posting here with no regrets for abortion, have a common experience in life.
The person that shot me, had no respect for my life, and had no rerets for trying to make me experience oblivion.
The shooter of me, has no seared conscience, and the person that kills another human being by the act of abortion, has no regrets. A similarity of conscience exist between the shooter, and one who takes herself to a person that shoots her human being for her.
No regrets Hal. Right?
I don’t seek provocation, Hal, I am simply asking a question to another person that had been shot.
I know to you an abortion is just as bad as murdering someone with a gun, but have some human decency please.
Posted by: Hal at August 28, 2008 11:45 AM
Writing for me again Hal?
If abortion is human decency , nothing is bad, Hal.
I am sorry you were shot. But you are still beneath contempt.
Jill I heard you on radio Hannity yesterday regarding this cover up and Best of Luck, because now you will be labled a rascist like everyone else for bringing up something negative on the annointed Messiah. Welcome to Red America. The hammer and sickle will replace the stars and stripes! Thanks Bill and Hillary, the party is more important than the people. Thanks for helping this along.
I haven’t heard anyone accuse Jill of being a racist recently.
Hal,
In the Catholic Church we believe that the final decision in moral matters must be left up to the conscience of each individual.
HOWEVER, that persons conscience MUST be well formed. Every time a person knowingly commits a sin, they deaden a little bit of their conscience. Enough sin, and pretty soon they are rendered incapable of making a true moral decision. This is what we mean by a “sered” conscience…sered, as in burned away…
Well Hal,
I’m sorry you have no regrets for the killing of your human beings by abortion.
I could write that your beneath contempt for such acts, but your just a similarity of conscience between a person that shoots human beings, and aborts their creation.
As you have stated Hal, that I am to you, a feeling or attitude regarding me as inferior,base or worthless;scorn(contempt). Again, you exhibit a similarity of mind with the person that shot me.
Thanks mk. That makes sense.
yllas. I don’t care what you say about me. I was just asking for some compassion for Erin. If you don’t wish to be compassionate to Erin, I can’t force it. Have a wonderful day.
“Also, I effing hate guns.
Posted by: Erin at August 27, 2008 5:59 PM”
———————————–
To use a typical pro-abort quote:
“Don’t like guns? Then don’t get one…it’s perfectly LEGAL to own one”
RSD,
Good humor!
yllas is being a nasty troll, and she should be ignored. :(
Yet there is some truth in her point, if one can dig past all of the trolling. Here is the point: There is little (if any) moral difference between abortion and shooting an innocent person. An aborted child is just as dead as a murder victim.
I say that there is “little” moral difference because I am allowing for the women who have been deceived by decades of pro-choice propaganda. They may not know what abortion actually does. Without that knowledge, their moral culpability is greatly diminished. However, if a woman knows that abortion kills a human child, and she has one anyway, then there is no moral difference between her and a murderer.
Hal & Erin, consider that your sense of outrage is the same outrage that we pro-lifers feel about abortion. I know that you don’t agree with us yet, but perhaps the analogy will help you to understand us a little better.
For the record, I agree with RSD for once. Don’t like guns, don’t get one. don’t mind some reasonable regulations, but the basic right to own a gun should not be infringed. I do respect people who have different views on that question and work to ban gun ownership.
P.S. I don’t own a gun, nor do I want to.
I have deep awareness of the suffering of Erin being shot, with a wish to relieve the suffering of being shot.
My question is which came first, the abortion or shooting? I also stated that there is a similarity of conscience between those that abort human beings and those that shoot human beings.
The similarity of conscience is in the result of the action; a dead human being being created by consulting their conscience which contains no regret for their actions.
A person with no sorrow,no compassion, no regret for the killing of a human being, will kill again.
Interesting you appeal to me for a deep awareness of the suffering of Erin , while Erin, and you have no deep awareness of suffering for the human being’s life you made dead. No regrets Hal?
If abortion is not wrong, nothing is.
For the record, I agree with RSD for once. Don’t like guns, don’t get one. don’t mind some reasonable regulations, but the basic right to own a gun should not be infringed. I do respect people who have different views on that question and work to ban gun ownership.
I agree with you on this one, Hal. I really freaking hate guns, actually, and I don’t think I’d ever be okay keeping one in my home. But some people shoot for sport or hunt for food or feel like having a gun in the house makes their family safer. Not my business.
I do think that pro-gun people should be able to agree to reasonable gun control laws, and I don’t really understand why people think it’s somehow beyond the pale for there to be some sort of basic background check type stuff.
Erin —
I’m really sorry for whatever you went through.
Erin,
Have you started drinking already? Yikes.
Erin,
That’s what the human being that shot me said. Such disrespect for life, ain’t it a demeaning act, being shot while someone yell’s at you, to pleasure yourself. Knowing your giving pleasure to another human being by being shot is…… knowing your only worth is the pleasure received by the shooter, of you being dead, or suffering from the shot. Then the shooter going about, unable to keep his pleasure to himself, and talking about his power/pleasure of shooting you….another insult to bear.
And Hal, your talking to a victim of a gunshot and exhibiting the same disrespect for human life that the person that shoots human beings does; down to the same words that the person who shot me said.
So, let’s see, a shooting victim, ask another shooting victim, a simple question about which came first, the shooting or abortion. Followed by a statemnt of similarity of conscience between a shooter of human beings, and a person that aborts a human being.
The reply; go pleasure yourself.
yllas. I’m not away, just ignoring you.
Obama knew full well that babies would continue dying without the protections the Born Alive act would provide. He was willing to let that happen as so much collateral damage as long as the sacred sacrament of abortion on demand would not be compromised. Whether or not it is called infanticide or choice or even murder is not the issue. Regardless of what it is called, the end result is a dead baby.
I like guns, but I like Erin too.
yllas: I have been shot
yllas, that’s too bad, and I resisted the opportunity to make humorous comments about it. Also -there really is no call for you to get on Erin’s case — sheesh.
…..
And then you went nuts.
Hal: Please delete the above comment. yllas has lost any shred of decency he/she had left.
Naaman: yllas is being a nasty troll, and she should be ignored.
Jill could save a bit of bandwidth by just substituting “Don’t act like yllas” instead of the following:
Posting Guidelines
Do’s
Criticize ideas, not people.
Be civil and considerate.
Carefully read what others wrote before responding.
Consider what is being said.
Express your thoughts carefully and clearly.
You’re responsible for what you write.
Do Not’s
Do not swear or slander others.
Do not violate another?s privacy.
Do not write inflammatory comments just to wind people up.
Do not post personal/racial or ethnic/gender-based insults or slurs. ?
How many times a week do you really honestly read about someone pulling a gun on an intruder in their home and saving the day?
Erin – one thing here – of crimes stopped by armed people in the US, 2/3 involve ordinary armed citizens, and 1/3 involve law enforcement personnel.
The flipside is all the cases where people get shot because Joe Blow got mad at his brother-in-law and there were guns in the house, etc.
Naaman: There is little (if any) moral difference between abortion and shooting an innocent person. An aborted child is just as dead as a murder victim.
I say that there is “little” moral difference because I am allowing for the women who have been deceived by decades of pro-choice propaganda. They may not know what abortion actually does. Without that knowledge, their moral culpability is greatly diminished. However, if a woman knows that abortion kills a human child, and she has one anyway, then there is no moral difference between her and a murderer.
You are presuming that abortion will necessarily be seen as “bad,” and that’s not true.
Sure, the life ends in abortion just as with the murder; physical fact; but that’s saying nothing about the morality of it.
Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) : How are your feelings about guns any different than our feelings about abortion?
I’ll give you a hint: They’re not.
E, I gotta say that Erin is right about the frequency of the feelings, i.e., it’s not like there are many people who get shot and say it was for the best, while many have abortions and do say that.
However, you are right – when those feelings are present, there’s no big difference.
Look Doug.
Follow the posting. Erin asked and broached the subject of being shot. She has mentioned it before. Sally to Erin post personal info when it suits their agenda for abortion. Victimology is a useful tool of propagandist.
I resisted the opportunity to make humorous comments Posted by: Doug at August 28, 2008 7:51 PM
Go ahead Doug, make a humorous post, because you already admitted to thinking my being shot is humorous and just didn’t put it to paper. I thought it was humorous myself that some person tryed to make me find oblivion. I have no raw emotional wound.
BTW, Doug they deleted the go f— yourself reply by Erin and Hal. Now, who is going nuts Doug?
One question was asked to another person that has a common experience with me. Was the shooting first, or did the abortion precede her being shot. A statement was then made that there is a similarity of conscience between a person that shoots a human being, and the act of abortion.
yllas, that’s too bad
Posted by: Doug at August 28, 2008 7:51 PM
Giving pleasure just can’t be bad Doug.
Knowing your giving pleasure to another human being by being shot is…… knowing your only worth is the pleasure received by the shooter, of you being dead, or suffering from the shot. Then the shooter going about, unable to keep his pleasure to himself, and talking about his power/pleasure of shooting you….another insult to bear.
Abortion is Positive evil. Some people just can’t keep their pleasure of killing a human being to themselves. You know Doug, when one has a abortion, they’re are relieving a tension, a anxiety, brought upon them by being pregnant. And a reduction of anxiety or tension, brings one a increase of pleasure. Twist that statement Doug, and win a metaphysical pry bar, that deconstructs another person’s post, into the matter you can bend to your truth for killing human beings.
To a certain extent, some people at this message board just can’t see what they have in common with a typical shooter getting some pleasure by shooting another human being, and their pleasure recieved from having a abortion.
A similarity of conscience, united by the act of making human beings dead. And not one regret between them.
Yo La Tango 7:19PM
Uh, Yo La, Mitt Romney is a young man with great kids, and a Republican.
Obama lied ??? And this is NEWS? After listening to as much as I could stomach of the DNC, the most appropriate theme song for this event I could think of would have to be W.S. Gilbert’s chorus,
“Tell a tale of cock and bull,
Of convincing detail full
Tale tremendous,
Heav’n defend us!
What a tale of cock and bull!”
“yllas, that’s too bad”
Giving pleasure just can’t be bad Doug.
Well, that’s just more of your crazy talk, there, in reference to getting shot.
I was a bit conflicted – yes, you were going a bit nuts once again, but others had already noted it and I felt like it was a bit of “piling on,” and that can get you a penalty in football.
I don’t think it’s funny you got shot. That’s a hell of a thing, regardless. What I would find funny is something like, I have been shot and then the reply is, “Whoa, big surprise there….”
To be serious, I think you deserve whatever you get on message boards, but I can’t see the justification in you getting shot, from what I know anyway.
…..
You know Doug, when one has a abortion, they’re are relieving a tension, a anxiety, brought upon them by being pregnant. And a reduction of anxiety or tension, brings one a increase of pleasure.
yllas, you seem pretty reasonable today.
Yes, there are various reasons why people have abortions, and you could indeed say it’s more pleasurable for some women to end pregnancies, and that’s because they are unwanted. Same as it’s more pleasurable for some to continue them, as they’re wanted.
It’s just a truism that what we want makes us happier than what we don’t want.
Doug @ 1:30,You know Doug, when one has a abortion, they’re are relieving a tension, a anxiety, brought upon them by being pregnant. And a reduction of anxiety or tension, brings one a increase of pleasure.
You know yllas is being sarcastic, right?
GUNS:
How many of the anti-gun supporters out there are stupid enough to believe that bans will stop criminals from having guns? Are you kidding me? The guns used in robberies and muggings are not legal registered weapons bought legally!
If you ban all guns then the only people with guns will be the criminals and if you think they will not be able to get them on the black market you are not only foolish you are naive.
You know yllas is being sarcastic, right?
Janet, hard to say, since I really don’t know the circumstances about yllas getting shot.
If the point was that having an abortion is hardly like getting shot, or like shooting someone, then the sarcasm would make sense, as with, “Oh yeah, right – abortion is really like that (heh heh heh)”
However, in the “pleasure” versus “not pleasure” department, there is a point in what yllas said, and it goes to human motivation – that we do or attempt what we want the most, among our available options or choices, (or that for which we have the least distaste).
For all You wondering why there are no ads yet-learn from the VP Surprise-it made Me trust Senator John McCain more-the element of surprise is much better! I know there will be more expose, but done at the right time. What I want to ask of You all-Have any of You thought out that Barack Obama, with the infanticide law as well as the withholding of funding to middle-class adoptive parents, seems to be setting up a :1. caste system of developing a much richer upper class while creating a pathetic lower class that have already started to scissor Their (while teenagers)own Babies and get community service? Or leaving a Baby crawling on a sidewalk near traffic or just pitching Them into trashcans still attached to Their placentas so they suffer longer and wrapped in blankets so they can’t be heard and die? and; 2. Luring Republican votes by blocking these issues from being made known? I hardly found out and it was only because, I believe I was led by God to find out about these-I became, out of nowhere, a Faithful CafeMom’r! (http://www.cafemom.com)The Hotlist made Me appreciate how much I WASNT being told, and You know what? When I start a discussion in town with ANYONE-They havn’t heard about these 2 issues Either!!!! It can’t be coincidence-and for pete sake’s I’m getting a little frightened that it seems that people are getting to know who I am and actually snub me (and they are Democratic Party Members) I am posting this in My defense and in hopes that if any of You are experiencing the same-We can get down to how truly important this election REALLY is!////
why do you remove all of the context of the quotes of obama?
it does damage to your own cause…. we’re not stupid people.
What disrespect for the church. Pelosi and Madonna are sad examples of what happens when society is dumbed down, resulting in incompetent spokespeople pandering to its lowest common denominator. At low points in history, inferior elements often gain the ear of malcontents, enabling those like the far left, and it’s shallow clique of celebrities to gain the attention of mindless lemmings who will blindly follow their counterparts like a stampeding herd, thugs in a lynch mob, or lost souls who worship a golden calf. Since these types have no real substance, luckily their existence is usually short lived. Pelosi and Madonna should have been aborted.