Suleman octuplets II
No matter what the circumstances of the Suleman octuplets’ conception, my thought is pro-lifers must support their mother Nadya now. She responded with proper pro-life ethic on 2 counts, according to People:
Nadya’s mother, Angela Suleman [pictured right, with husband Ed]… says Nadya had 8 leftover frozen embryos from a previous in-vitro session and had them all implanted because she didn’t want them destroyed. Later, when given the option to abort some of the resulting fetuses, she refused, according to Angela’s account.
I’ve been hearing increased speculation that Nadya did this for the $. That doesn’t jive with 1st accounts, such as her mother’s, which are usually most accurate. I’m concerned pro-lifers will abandon Suleman now, too, and then who does she have? For instance, I received this email:
Thanks for your remarks on the octuplets. So glad you see that IVF is from the devil. It is a total ursurption of God’s creative power. It creates more problems than it solves….
I think the public should be screaming about this. This woman had litters so she could become a multi-millionaire. Figures she would be on multiple TV programs, get tons of free stuff, etc….
Don’t give her credit for not wanting a “reduction.” She thinks she will get more money the more babies she creates. Her mentality is abortion mentality: “I will decide who lives, who dies, when I have children.” I bet she isn’t even infertile! Just hates men!
I understand that Nightline did an exposé on this woman and what she is really up to a few nights ago. Check it out. Then you can do another more complete column on this and how UN pro-life this woman really is!
Now that kind of talk coming from a pro-lifer worries me. It is no different than the other side’s. For instance, watch snide Diane Sawyer interview Suleman’s spokeswoman on Good Morning America this week, repeatedly insinuating this (sorry there is strangely no YouTube still shot, but the video works)…
I think Suleman should go for the best book/movie deals she can. She needs lots of $ – to buy a big home and van, to hire help, to fund her childrens’ upbringing.
It seems to me there is sexism at play here. Were Suleman married, no one would be questioning her motive for becoming pregnant with multiples.
[HT for People quote: proofreader Laura Loo; photo courtesy of ABC News]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“It seems to me there is sexism at play here. Were Suleman married, no one would be questioning her motive for becoming pregnant with multiples”.
If there is, it’s coming from the conservative christians. To many, it’s not that she isn’t married per se… it’s that she has no income, no wealth and has the responsibility of not just 8 babies, but 6 other young ones. The fact that she is a single mom just adds to the burden.
1. Jill I think you are right! I think regardless of her circumstances we need to support this woman. We need to pray for her too!
2. I think Suleman’s situation has brought to light just how unregulated the colossal IVF industry is – perhaps in the name of “reproductive freedom”.
3. The kids looked happy – I’m assuming those were her older kids skipping their way to the van. And her PR person is VERY good!
Of course the underlying tone of Diane Sawyer’s interview was her disbelief that ANYONE could possibly want more than one baby! Granted 14 children under the age of 8 is NOT good, but this attitude by the thoroughly modern woman that Sawyer is would prevail whether Suleman had 3 or 6 kids!.
More than two kids = ugh NOT!
Granted 14 children under the age of 8 is NOT good, but this attitude by the thoroughly modern woman that Sawyer is would prevail whether Suleman had 3 or 6 kids!.
Posted by: toostunnedtolaugh at February 5, 2009 10:42 AM
You’d like to believe that, but it’s not true.
Nadya’s mother, Angela Suleman [pictured right, with husband Ed]… says Nadya had 8 leftover frozen embryos from a previous in-vitro session and had them all implanted because she didn’t want them destroyed. Later, when given the option to abort some of the resulting fetuses, she refused, according to Angela’s account.
Interesting… She was wanting to save the lives of the babies she had already created through in-vitro…i have to commend her for that.
I like her wonderful attitude towards life and children. It sounds like she is a good mother. I am looking forward to hearing her side of the story.
I understand one of her children is autistic.
Also, the octuplets are at high risk for physical and mental disability.
Jill rightfully pointed out that human beings were never meant to have litters. Even in the animal kingdom we see certain animals rarely giving birth to more than a certain number of young at a time.
Nature regulates this for a reason.
So……….
how can we help? Is there an address for donations yet?
How “wealthy” does one have to be to have more than 4 children, V? IYHO of course.
If you don’t commend the use of embryos for IVF and you don’t comment their use for scientific research, what do you propose we do with them?
I would have to say that she would probably be better off married with 14 kids rather than single, to have a support system at the very least. I am having a little bit of a hard time understanding your position, Jill, because you seem to have a double standard of sorts. Could you clear it up for me?
You’ve said–based on your religious beliefs–that women should be married before they have kids. Now you accuse people of sexism because this woman is not married.
If you could help me understand where you’re coming from that would be wonderful.
My nightmare: 14 teenagers.
Hi Leah,
My concern with sexism is solely on the point that people people are questioning Suleman’s motives for allowing herself to be impregnated with 8 embryos.
Re: your statement, “If you don’t commend the use of embryos for IVF and you don’t comment their use for scientific research, what do you propose we do with them?”
I say don’t create them in the first place.
Well, I linked to an article in the comments stating she did this to get a TV show. For me, it wasn’t about finding a way to sweep her under the rug as much as a way to make sense of this story which seemed so off.
That said, I said before, regardless, the babies are here now and need help. So like Carla said, how can we help?
On a side note, I’ve been hearing lots of commentary (Glenn Beck, O’Reilly) how the wrong thing is to have too many children. That talk scares the dickens out of me.
Fair enough, but what about the ones that are already created?
I don’t think it has to do with her sex. People aren’t saying “She must be going for the money because she’s a woman.”
How wealthy for 4 kids carla? Wealthy enough to support them.
So……….
how can we help? Is there an address for donations yet?
Posted by: Carla at February 5, 2009 11:05 AM
Oh, I bet her spokesperson has that all set up already!
On a side note, I’ve been hearing lots of commentary (Glenn Beck, O’Reilly) how the wrong thing is to have too many children. That talk scares the dickens out of me.
Posted by: Pansy Moss at February 5, 2009 12:13 PM
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Isn’t Glenn Beck a member of the LDS church?? Last time I checked, they didn’t put any limits on number of children. Large families are encouraged in that church.
If they consider themselves pro-life at all, then they really need to think about what they’re saying. And shut their yaps.
We are not wealthy enough for our 4 then, V. What to do, what to do…
Do they have everything they want? No. Do they have everything they need? Yes. :)
My own opinion is that the babies should be given up for adoption. No one can properly care for 14 kids! And eight of them newborns who will likely face some health challenges.
And I really cant help but feel also that she did this for money. Don’t like to judge, but does she really have the best interests of the babies and her older children first in mind, which is what any good parent would do.
Granted 14 children under the age of 8 is NOT good, but this attitude by the thoroughly modern woman that Sawyer is would prevail whether Suleman had 3 or 6 kids!.
Posted by: toostunnedtolaugh at February 5, 2009 10:42 AM
You’d like to believe that, but it’s not true.
Posted by: asitis at February 5, 2009 10:46 AM
Actually it IS true. Since announcing that I am pregnant with my seventh child I have been asked what is wrong with me, asked when I’m going to “get spayed already”, told that I’m a freak and many other wonderful epithets.
I have six beautiful, well behaved children ranging in ages from 16 to 3. I have an excellent job and am in a stable, loving relationship.
I have even had people gush over our two current youngest and upon finding out they are #5 and #6 their countenance changes and they shrink away as if afraid to catch some dread disease.
Joanne,
What has me concerned is her mother’s claim she has always been “obsessed” with children.
This would suggest that these children fill some emotional need or compulsion. Like the people who collect stray animals until their home is so overrun both animals and humans are in horrific substandard conditions.
I would be just as concerned about this woman’s mental stability if this woman suddenly took in 8 more dogs after already having 6 in a small house. And no I’m not comparing the children to dogs.
What I’m comparing is an uncontrolled compulsion that can have very dire consequences, especially where children are concerned.
Elisabeth,
I think that is amazing!! Sorry for all of the stupid comments that you get…?!
I have a friend with 12 children. They are a joy to be around.
Since announcing that I am pregnant with my seventh child I have been asked what is wrong with me, asked when I’m going to “get spayed already”, told that I’m a freak and many other wonderful epithets.
I have six beautiful, well behaved children ranging in ages from 16 to 3. I have an excellent job and am in a stable, loving relationship.
I have even had people gush over our two current youngest and upon finding out they are #5 and #6 their countenance changes and they shrink away as if afraid to catch some dread disease.
Posted by: Elisabeth at February 5, 2009 2:45 PM
Congratulations! Wunderbar!
yes of course the dreaded disease is pregnancy! Didn’t you know this?
I’m assuming you are often barefoot and in the kitchen!! lol
Elizabeth —
The 7th child is the charm! I know because am one! (: I wouldn’t have wanted it any other way, either.
No one can properly care for 14 kids!
A good friend of mine has 14 and they seem to be doing quite well. I don’t want to judge, but I think there is a difference between having 14 one at a time and having 8 newborns.
Her boys will all end up in prison and the daughter will end up be unwed moms hooked on drugs.
We will all be forced to support her through taxes.
What she was a very liberal thing to do. She thought of herself, and her pathological need to have an infant to “love her.” So kept having fatherless babies knowing we suckers will have to pay for her irresponsibility. That is clearly a sign of serous mental problems.
The problem lies withn the invtro way of concieving. Once they are formed (embryos) it would be murder to toss them. There are many that are frozen or tossed. Its wrong to do that. These are human beings.
And BTW, Mark. Blaming the mom for the bad descisions her kid’s may make in the future? That is as sexist as it comes.
Every one of those children is a blessing and is a unique individual…and we don’t know their futures. We do not know what choices they will make as they grow older.
And BTW, Mark. Blaming the mom for the bad descisions her kid’s may make in the future? That is as sexist as it comes.
Posted by: Mary at February 5, 2009 10:17 PM
What do you think, should they go after the sperm donor?
Doctors did not “create” these babies. They may have joined sperm and eggs together, but doctors cannot force an egg to fertilize. Only God can do that. Also, time and time again I read how this mother had 8 embryos “implanted.” She had 8 embryos TRANSFERRED. Only God implanted the embryos. It is indeed quite a miracle that all 8 implanted and even more of a miracle, and a blessing, that all 8 survived.
It seems that everyone now has the birth control mentality. Before contraceptives were introduced, women had very large families. How many of us would not be here if our ancestors had not had very large families? These 14 children are a blessing from God.
Let’s be wise in our support! She should not have done the IVF in the first place. But once she did, she could have placed the embryos for adoption. Yes, it was great she did not abort any but even now it is not too late for adoption. The loving, life affirming option. I still do not understand why with no husband or source of income she did this. Children deserve and need a two parent as in mom and dad home. So many couples would adopt and would have adopted the embryo.
I would adopt one in a heartbeat.
I’d take one today and love him or her.
Bethany,
As I mentioned to Joanne, what truly has me concerned is this woman’s mental health and history. Her “obsession” with children is what is frightening. Its like people who collect dogs and cats with no regard how the animals will be cared for or what horrendous conditions the animals and owner will end up living in.
It simply satisfies a compulsion, a psychological need.
I see this here as well and I fear for all these children.
Obviously this woman thought first and foremost of satisfying her own compulsion. She gave no thought to what was best for the children, no consideration to her parents, no thought to her capacity to care for these children or how she even would care for or support them.
For this reason I have very grave concerns for these children.
Mary, I’m still just really not sure what to think about this issue. I keep going back and forth. I don’t know.
Bethany,
I would love to see you and people like you adopt these children.
I fear they are on this earth to satisfy a compulsion and nothing else.
Mary, maybe over time she will realize that she isn’t capable of taking care of all of them on her own and reach out to others for help. I certainly hope so.
14 children of different ages is one thing, but 8 newborns at a time, all on your own…that is quite another. I would be stressed out. What amazes me is that I read somewhere that she plans to breastfeed all of them…is that even possible?
I don’t think I could possibly handle it on my own. I would need a support system of some kind, like a loving husband, some friends from church, something. I love babies more than anything but with 8 at a time, I think I might go a little crazy. lol
I guess I’m just more confused by this situation than anything else. I don’t really know what to think or feel about it. I did read that she actually didnt implant that many, but that they divided. I think there’s just so much to the story I don’t know yet.
Bethany,
Her talking of breastfeeding these children indicates to me this woman is in a fantasy world.
She seems completely detached from the reality of having 14 children, 8 of them newborns.
I think she’ll have little option but to reach out to others for help and I’m sure she’ll get it, hopefully for the children’s sake she will.
I foresee her winding up like these poor neurotic animal collectors who’s homes and lives are completely overrun and out of control.
Mary, maybe over time she will realize that she isn’t capable of taking care of all of them on her own and reach out to others for help. I certainly hope so.
Posted by: Bethany at February 6, 2009 9:46 AM
Bethany, I’d say she has already realized that… hence the “spokesperson”.
Mary, saying she’s delusion is charitable. She could be scheming.
Asitis 10:13am
She could wind up trying to find a way to profit from this. The woman isn’t stupid and by all appearences functions normally. People with mental illness and bizarre compulsions can be highly intelligent and appear to otherwise function normally.
I’m still convinced, given this woman’s history, that she’s satisfying some out of control compulsion with these children.
Hey Mary, how’s your jaw? Better I hope!
Asitis 10:30am
Much better. Thank you for your concern. At least I no longer look like someone punched me in the face.
The great thing is I lost some weight. I’d been at this same “plateau” for 10 years so hopefully I can keep it heading downward.
I hope you son is well.
Thanks. He’s well and back at school. Just a flu.
Well, if you needed/wanted to lose some weight, that’s great. Maybe knowing how good it makes you feel will be enough to keep it off once you can eat again. Good luck!
Asitis,
Its good to hear your son is well and back on his feet. As for the weight, I’m workin’ on it!!
Posted by: Elisabeth at February 5, 2009 2:45 PM
Actually it IS true. Since announcing that I am pregnant with my seventh child I have been asked what is wrong with me, asked when I’m going to “get spayed already”, told that I’m a freak and many other wonderful epithets.
I have six beautiful, well behaved children ranging in ages from 16 to 3. I have an excellent job and am in a stable, loving relationship.
I have even had people gush over our two current youngest and upon finding out they are #5 and #6 their countenance changes and they shrink away as if afraid to catch some dread disease.
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Liz,
My wife and I have a small family, only five surviving children.
I commend you on your family.
Money can not buy what you have.
I pray that the LORD continue to bless you with an incresing abundance of HIS amazing grace.
yor bro ken
Ken, Carla, LB and TSTL… thank you for your kind words. Yes, we realize we are blessed beyond all belief. Looking forward to next week’s ultrasound to see the little one again!
And a major ROFLOL to barefoot and in the kitchen… I’m a pediatric RN at an inner-city county hospital and I haven’t cooked in YEARS!! LOL
Well, off to another 13 hours of work… (I joke that I go to work to have fewer children to care for… we only get assigned 4 at a time!)
Simple solution to prevent a repeat – MAKE the doctor/clinic financially (if not morally) RESPONSIBLE for the children. No doctor or clinic will voluntarily incur the cost. End of issue.
Elisabeth – God bless you and all women who have children – esp. those who push past the societal boundaries to have more than one or two.
I immensely admire those women who have more than what is societally acceptable. I love the Duggers. They have had children since marrying – and that is so cool! And they’ve done a great job at raising them … so far – so good.
;)