Throwing in the towel?
by Carder
Is the religious right throwing in the towel in the fight against immorality? At first glance, a recent article in the UK Telegraph would certainly lead a reader to that conclusion:
America‘s religious Right has conceded that the election of US President Barack Obama has sealed its defeat in the cultural war with permissiveness and secularism.
Leading evangelicals have admitted that their association with George W. Bush has not only hurt the cause of social conservatives but contributed to the failure of the key objectives of their 30-year struggle….
James Dobson, 72, who resigned recently as head of Focus on the Family… acknowledged the dramatic reverse for the religious Right in a farewell speech to staff.
“We tried to defend the unborn child, the dignity of the family, but it was a holding action… we are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles.”
… [E]vangelicals have won only minor victories in limiting the availability of abortion. Meanwhile the number of states permitting civil partnerships between homosexuals is rising, and the campaign to restore prayer to schools after 40 years – a decision that helped create the Moral Majority – has got nowhere.
What the Telegraph failed to include is the rest of Dobson’s statement:
“… but God is in control and we are not going to give up now, alright? (applause) The world has turned colder for the family in recent years and there’s such hostility [at] anyone who holds to a faith and we’re gonna take the heat.
But I have been assured by the board and by many of you that we’re not going to cow, we’re not going to be discouraged…”
Concession? They wish.
Dobson also appeared on Fox‘s Hannity last night to refute the mischaracterizations:
Part 1 of 2
Part 2 of 2
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
We certainly have lost many, many battles. But we’ve lost them because of the tremendous deception and lies used to promote the various evils of abortion, contraception, same-sex marriage etc. The playing field has never been level, in that respect.
My great hope is in the next couple of generations. I know many young people who are not engaging in premarital sex. I know many new, young priests who are very devout Catholics, faithful to church teachings.
We didn’t lose the battle over marriage and sex and family in one or two decades. The seeds for the revolution were sown in the late 1800’s. We were warned against it in encyclicals on modernism.
Similarly, a turn-around will also take many decades or even centuries.
People on this blog:
I need lots of prayers for a friend of mine, I’ll call her L.
She had an abortion last Thursday by herself. She just now told me of this. I’m in tears for her. I’m going over there tonight to comfort her but I need words of wisdom and words of strength for her and I. She was 6-7 weeks along.
thanks
Krystal
“”… but God is in control…”
Just because James Dobson says it doesn’t make it so. Here’s hoping for a continuing slide into irrelevance for FOTF and its ilk, and that more and more states follow the lead of Iowa and Vermont in acknowledging the civil rights of same-sex couples.
krystal: yes I will pray for her and YOU.
Is she in distress? Is there someone you can put her in contact with if necessary? And is she recovering ok, physically?
acknowledging the civil rights of same-sex couples.
Posted by: Ray at April 15, 2009 2:03 PM
NEWSFLASH Ray!: same sex couples already have the same civil rights as straight couple. What they want simply isn’t real and doesn’t exist. There is no such thing as a same-sex “marriage”.
Krystal,
You may be in tears for your friend, but is she? If she was only 6-7 weeks along, then faced with a situation she made a decision and acted on it, instead of dithering about. It is natural for grief to accompany an abortion. But it is also natural for it to be accompanied by a sense of relief…a burden lifted. Your friend might not be as crushed by her experience as you expect.
Whatever you do, it would certainly be a disservice to remind her that she has committing an act that you find abhorrent and want banned.
PS Sorry to be a cynic, but is your friend an anti, actively campaigning to deny others access to something she decided was OK for her?
Angel,
She’s been texting me all mourning about her abortion. I’ve got in touch with the only CPC in the area, who is only a block away from PP where she had the abortion, and they told me they have a wonderful abortion recovery group. But I think her first step was telling me about the abortion.
I’m not sure about her physical recovery but I know she is at work today. I know she has a history of long depression spells and I think this will no doubt throw her into another one.
I’m going over there tonight, but right now I’m crying to this loss of her baby.
“”Krystal,
You may be in tears for your friend, but is she? If she was only 6-7 weeks along, then faced with a situation she made a decision and acted on it, instead of dithering about. It is natural for grief to accompany an abortion. But it is also natural for it to be accompanied by a sense of relief…a burden lifted. Your friend might not be as crushed by her experience as you expect.
Whatever you do, it would certainly be a disservice to remind her that she has committing an act that you find abhorrent and want banned.
PS Sorry to be a cynic, but is your friend an anti, actively campaigning to deny others access to something she decided was OK for her?
Posted by: Ray at April 15, 2009 2:13 PM””
She had been trying to have a baby for 6 years before her divorce last October. She got involved in a twisted relationship and ended up pregnant.
Yes, she is in tears over this too. She told me she feels trapped since she has this abortion and she feels like she just ended something that shouldn’t have been ended. She knows it was a baby and she also knows how pro-life I am.
I would never in my life make someone feel bad for a choice they made. I’m here for her and she doesn’t need preaching.
Please just respond to the facts that I’ve posted and not assume anything other than what I write.
If she was only 6-7 weeks along,
___________________________________
Is a baby only 6-7 weeks along not a baby Ray?
same sex couples already have the same civil rights as straight couple
When same sex partners have full hospital visitation rights, and can inherit property from each other without paying inheritance tax, among other things, just like heterosexual married partners, then you can make a case for full civil rights. Until then, your statement is just plain false.
whatever Ray. I don’t support giving gays any special rights, which is what they want. I can’t imagine any hospital turning away a person visiting another because they are gay. I would be very surprised if this happens. Secondly, I don’t think couples who are not married should have rights that are the same as married couples. This is where we’ve made our mistake as a society. Marriage is special – it is the union of a man and a woman for life. Therefore this fact should be recognized in law.
krystal: it sounds like your friend will need alot of support in the coming months. The divorce and the abortion are going to be things she will need to work through.
I promise to keep her in my prayers. You just pray to the Holy Spirit. I am sure your presence will be a huge comfort to your friend. God love you.
There is no such thing as a same-sex “marriage”.
Posted by: angel at April 15, 2009 2:10 PM
There is in four states.
The Catholic Church doesn’t recognize a marriage of a divorced person (which is fine) but the Government does. You could say there is no such thing as a marriage between divorced people while their first spouse is still alive, but our society has said there is.
Don’t like gay marriage? Don’t have one.
Honestly, unlike abortion, this gay marriage debates doesn’t have two legitimate sides.
Krystal, God bless you for reaching out to your friend tonight! One thing I’ve learned from working with people in crisis is to never assume I know what kind of help someone is looking for.
Why not ask your friend what she needs to start healing? Find out what she wants from you and what she wants that you may not be able to provide but that you can help her find elsewhere (like a referral for counseling or a post-abortion healing group, etc)
You mentioned that she has a history of depression. Has she ever had treatment?
Good luck, Krystal. I’ll be praying for you.
I just on’t understand why people don’t see the difference between a civil and religious marriage. If the religious have a problem with the government having defining rights over marriage, then they should have tried to separate them years ago.
They are not the same thing. Hint 1: religious marriages require religion. Civil marriages don’t; civil marriages give rights to couples, and religious marriages (legally) don’t.
I don’t support giving gays any special rights, which is what they want.
No, it’s not what they want. They want the same rights that you and I have.
I can’t imagine any hospital turning away a person visiting another because they are gay. I would be very surprised if this happens.
Yes, it does happen. If you are unconscious, nobody but family can get in to see you without family consent. If you aren’t married, you aren’t family.
Secondly, I don’t think couples who are not married should have rights that are the same as married couples.
They don’t. But heterosexual couples can marry, while homosexual couples cannot, except in four states. Your stance denies basic civil rights to homosexual couples. You, “angel,” are a bigot.
When you know the history in the Bible God eventually judged nations and people for their immorality.
How long can God withhold his judgement especially in this day and age of abortion on demand and gay marriages? This has never happened before.
I totally agree with Dobson that God is in control. As Christians we do not have anything to fear. And as Christians we will ultimately be the victors.
Two things:
I’ll pray for your friend. I hope that she makes it through. You’re an amazing friend for standing with her, for taking her by the hand. This is all quite new to me, being aware of the devastation that abortion has caused. I wasn’t fully aware of how badly that it affected women until Carla told me her story, and I hope that your friend can find peace and dignity and the ability to get up again. :).
And, second, this clash over abortion ought not to be a war. Life ought not to be a war. All pro-lifers must brace themselves, but think first of pacifism and nonviolent solutions to this “battle.” That’s just my opinion, though. When people label this a war that pro-lifers are “fanatics intent on fighting,” they make it sound as though we are a bunch of Nazis or the Confederate Army or something. Just hang in there, people. :).
How long can God withhold his judgement especially in this day and age of abortion on demand and gay marriages? This has never happened before.
Posted by: Joanne at April 15, 2009 2:52 PM
God can judge me any day He wants. So far He’s living up to our deal; I don’t bug Him and He doesn’t bug me.
There is in four states.
The Catholic Church doesn’t recognize a marriage of a divorced person (which is fine) but the Government does. You could say there is no such thing as a marriage between divorced people while their first spouse is still alive, but our society has said there is.
Don’t like gay marriage? Don’t have one.
Honestly, unlike abortion, this gay marriage debates doesn’t have two legitimate sides.
Posted by: Hal at April 15, 2009 2:42 PM
actually the gay marriage debate does have a side that is wrong. There is either something special about marriage or there isn’t. I happen to believe that there is and that we’ve failed to protect this specialness in the name of “tolerance”.
A couple merely living together should have no special benefits. This would have stopped the common-law nonsense in it’s tracks and would never have led to same-sex “marriage” which is a fictious union at best nor lead on to polygamous set-ups either. All of these various forms of co-habitation are harmful to women and to children. They benefit men, mainly.
And as for this statement:
You could say there is no such thing as a marriage between divorced people while their first spouse is still alive, but our society has said there is.
it wasn’t that long ago that society also held this belief. Dropping it doesn’t mean it wasn’t right. The law is not always right, Hal.
Joanne,
Also remember that God let horrible nations drive themselves into the ground without any sort of special divine intervention. I fear that is where our country is at now. I pray that in the end, the USA will still be a great nation, but I’m afraid God is letting us kill ourselves.
Wow, that’s funny. We desire the same rights for the unborn, too, that all other human beings have…life.
If you are a pro-abort, as far as I’m concerned, you are a bigot. You would deny the most BASIC human right to another human simply because you feel he doesn’t deserve it, and isn’t really a person…against the proof of science which shows that the unborn are indeed human beings.
“There is either something special about marriage or there isn’t.”
The special then, is that it is a boy and a girl?
How does that make them special enough to make a secular law banning same sex people to make the same commitment?
If God is in control, it’s obvious that He’s a flaming liberal. The religious right has lost every battle they’ve ever fought.
Forced prayer in public schools is still illegal. Abortion and birth control are still legal, and most Americans are still pro-choice. There’s more and more sex, violence and naughty language in the media than ever. More Americans identify as non-religious than ever. And gay people are gaining greater tolerance and more rights all the time, and can now marry in four states (and counting…). And the public is largely unconcerned about it all.
Dobson is right that the religious right has failed, and it doesn’t matter if they keep fighting or not. Decades of fighting hasn’t made a difference.
“..this clash over abortion ought not to be a war…”
—————————————-
Sorry, Vannah…but it’s not a war but a battle..and this “battle” for life has been raging on for centuries in both the physical and the spiritual world.
The War has already been won by Christ’s Death and Resurrection. Pro-lifers just need to continue to fight the Good fight and be Faithful.
“And the public is largely unconcerned about it all. ”
——————————————–
..and the highway to hell is as wide as ever..
reality: Forced prayer in public schools is still illegal. Abortion and birth control are still legal, and most Americans are still pro-choice. There’s more and more sex, violence and naughty language in the media than ever. More Americans identify as non-religious than ever. And gay people are gaining greater tolerance and more rights all the time, and can now marry in four states (and counting…). And the public is largely unconcerned about it all.
What is truly sad is that you believe this is good.
What is even sadder is that you like sitting in muck. But you know they say that pigs don’t complain about the muck because after a while it feels good. ;)
Reality,
You really need a lesson in the theology of divine providence. May I suggest “Providence” by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange.
PIP: the special “thing” about marriage is that it is a unity of one man with one woman for life and that it mirrors here on earth the unity we will have in heaven with God. We take vows to profess this and reinforce these vows with the unity of our bodies.
It’s important to understand a concept before you criticize it. I think marriage is largely misunderstood (perhaps deliberately) by people today. No doubt at the urging of “raging feminists”. Marriage is sacrificial, also not a popular notion with couples today.
Thank you all for your words.
I’ll keep in mind that I am there to listen and not infringe my views on here. But to be there for her.
I’m giving her some websites about abortion healing so hopefully that will get her on the track to recovering from this.
Yes, she has been being treated for depression but I’ll make sure she lets her counselor know about this incident so she can fully be helped.
Abortion hurts all….
I’m fairly certain that “Web sites about abortion healing” will be forcing those views on her.
Someone up-thread mentioned the idea of separating religious and legal marriage. I think that’s a brilliant idea, frankly. Any two adults over the age of 18 could file for legal marriage, and they can do whatever religious or spiritual thing later, on their own time, without any sort of state relationship. Easy. You guys get to keep your sacred ritual; the rest of us can have our tax breaks without worry about god or whatever.
I’m fairly certain that “Web sites about abortion healing” will be forcing those views on her.
nah, I don’t think so. I think she will likely get the truth about abortion and begin to be able to heal.
Ray,
You have no idea what you are talking about. Hush.
Krystal,
I just emailed you with my cell #. I am praying for you both.
You are a wonderful friend and I am thankful you are there for her right now when she needs you the most.
Krystal,
Is there an abortion recovery group in your area?
there is one but there isn’t enough funding here in our only CPC center in Fairbanks for them to get it up and running.
I offered them my time to do the group so we’re trying to get something together.
Fairbanks is very pro-abortion and most people donate to PP instead of the CPC
I’m fairly certain that “Web sites about abortion healing” will be forcing those views on her.
Someone up-thread mentioned the idea of separating religious and legal marriage. I think that’s a brilliant idea, frankly. Any two adults over the age of 18 could file for legal marriage, and they can do whatever religious or spiritual thing later, on their own time, without any sort of state relationship. Easy. You guys get to keep your sacred ritual; the rest of us can have our tax breaks without worry about god or whatever.
Posted by: Human Abstract at April 15, 2009 4:18 PM
__________________________
this is NOT forcing my views on her. I’ve found some very unbiased websites concerning this matter. these websites don’t advocate anything they just give the facts on all options.
‘Abortion Healing’ is not a forcing view either, there is physical healing and mental healing. While not all women will regret their choice there are those who do and I know my friend well enough to know she is regretting it. She told me in those words to the T. She said, ‘Krystal, I shouldn’t have done this…..I will regret this until I die.”
She sent me a text message saying this so it is written down in stone that she has expressed her regret for the abortion
And like Carla told me, ‘…for her to tell you about the abortion knowing your views on it shows a big step…”
thanks Carla!
In the abortion recovery group someone has had an abortion right Krystal? Someone that you can call in your area?
Man, I wish I lived in Alaska right now.
Posted by: Hal at April 15, 2009 2:42 PM
“Honestly, unlike abortion, this gay marriage debates doesn’t have two legitimate sides.”
——————————————————
Well, Hal, I can agree with you on this point.
There is no ‘legitimate’side to same sex marriage.
The concept is as perverted and convoluted as the behavior that spawned it.
Hell, I have some mighty fine looking daughters and a handsome son.
I have done my best to preserve their virginity. I am entitled to enjoy the fruits of my labor.
Who has the authority to tell me it is ‘wrong’ or ‘illegal’ to bed em and wed em and bed em some more?
You do see the predictable path of your ‘reasoning’, don’t you?
God, and religion aside, who will rescue you from the bottom of the narrow pit which you dug with your own hands and into which you have now fallen?
I suggest you read the history of the French Revolution. It might provied you with some needed perspective to assist you in finding your way back to where you took the wrong turn in your thinking.
yor bro ken
God can judge me any day He wants. So far He’s living up to our deal; I don’t bug Him and He doesn’t bug me.
Posted by: Hal at April 15, 2009 2:56 PM
I feel sorry for you Hal. The reason God isn’t “bugging” you is because he does not force himself on anyone.
Everyone becomes a Christian by choice, just as we can choose to reject him.
However that choice ends when we die. Our death here is of the physical body, but the soul will live on. If we have accepted the Lord we are given eternal salvation, but if we have not we face condemnation. There will be no second chance in the second life.
Your disregard for God really bothers me and I hope you will change your mind.
Carla, the Abortion Rercovery through the local CPC is not active at the moment. We’re currently trying to find someone brave enough to come out with their abortion story and then they just need a moderater for the group which would be me. I’d be more like a secretery more or less.
But there is a Care Line here in Alaska that woman can call 24/7 if they want info on adoption, abortion or keeping the baby.
Krystal,
I would so do that!! :)
National Helpline for Abortion Recovery
1-866-482-LIFE
I am waiting word for some more resources. For now give your friend a great big hug and listen. She needs you, babe.
When James Dobson says “WE” does he mean Conservative Christians and GOP leadership including George W. Bush? Cause Bush was NOT a pro-life president by any means.
Enyart and the gang were right to protest Dobson’s going back on his pledge to never vote for anyone that would vote to kill a single innocent person.
I am glad to see the association between FOTF and the GOP end. Good riddance. New leadership and better strategy is needed.
Thank God for truly faithful men like Bob Enyart & Brian Rohrbaugh who refuse to compromise and give assent to murdering any innocent children!
Someone up-thread mentioned the idea of separating religious and legal marriage. I think that’s a brilliant idea, frankly. Any two adults over the age of 18 could file for legal marriage, and they can do whatever religious or spiritual thing later, on their own time, without any sort of state relationship. Easy. You guys get to keep your sacred ritual; the rest of us can have our tax breaks without worry about god or whatever.”
Why thank you- it has been my position for a long time. Somenow, separating these terms does not come easily to most religious people who are adamant about the issue.
Angel. Nobody is trying to “redefine” marriage in the religious sense.
I”ll repeat it- nobody wants to make your church marry gay people. I don’t think gay people waould want to be married in a church that doesn’t accept them.
Gay people just want the benefits of civil marriage. This is quite a difference, and it is relatively easy to see.
Gay people just want the benefits of civil marriage. This is quite a difference, and it is relatively easy to see.
Posted by: PiP at April 15, 2009 6:30 PM
Also, some religions are happy to accept gay marriage. So, why not?
Hi, Carla! Hi, Kate!
What did you two personally think about the “throwing in the towel” comment?
I don’t think that the infanticide debates can last too much longer. I think that people will end this soon enough, and that this will become a record in the history books of a truly tragic event. Then the healing can begin. Maybe that’s just me…
P.S. Sorry for being sort of dramatic and full of melancholy- I just read Night. Depressed.
“Any two adults over the age of 18 could file for legal marriage”
why do they have to be adults over the age of 18? why can’t anybody marry for any reason? Brother and Sister, Father and daughter, maybe 3 people want to get married. why does marriage need to be between humans? why do you get to set you own rules?
Angel. Nobody is trying to “redefine” marriage in the religious sense.
I”ll repeat it- nobody wants to make your church marry gay people. I don’t think gay people waould want to be married in a church that doesn’t accept them.
Gay people just want the benefits of civil marriage. This is quite a difference, and it is relatively easy to see.
Posted by: PiP at April 15, 2009 6:30 PM
ha! you don’t think people don’t want to force the CC to marry gays? REally? Do you really believe that? How long do you think it will be before Catholic priests are hauled in for hate crimes when preaching against homosexual marriage or the homosexual lifestyle? It’s already happened in other countries under the guise of “hate”.
And gays are not interested in leaving the Catholic church. They are interested in bringing it to it’s knees or destroying it.
With all due respect PIP, you are out of touch.
I read NIGHT by Elie Wiesel in Social Literature in my Junior Year of High school. Pretty powerful book! It should be required reading for ANYONE learning about the Holocaust. I also read A Separate Peace, The Bell Jar and Black Boy.
Speaking for myself….I am not throwing in the towel, Vannah. :)
I really appreciate Hal, Ray, Human Abstract, and Reality for providing some alternative views to the constant barrage of religious stuff I read on this site. Not everyone in this country is Christian. Thank you, and I agree with all you have posted.
Also, some religions are happy to accept gay marriage. So, why not?
Posted by: Hal at April 15, 2009 6:45 PM
Yep, Reform Judaism does! :) Proud to be a Jew! Also thanks to PIP for providing an alternative view.
I really appreciate Hal, Ray, Human Abstract, and Reality for providing some alternative views to the constant barrage of religious stuff I read on this site. Not everyone in this country is Christian. Thank you, and I agree with all you have posted.
Posted by: Ash at April 15, 2009 8:33 PM
no one is forcing you to read Ash! But glad you came by. Sadly for you, this is a prolife blog with a Christian blogger. ;)
Angel,
Sigh.
How come the only views that are tolerated are the ones that are intolerant of my views? :)
Carla, we’re “intolerant” because we don’t happen to agree with them. Don’t you get it? ;)
It’s hilarious to read the comments of people who hate this site and what it has to say, but can’t seem to stay away (and why is that? Is it some sick form of self-torture? Kidding…), or say “Yeah, it’s about time that somebody said something non-religious on this site!”
LOL–um, clearly you’re in the wrong place. There are plenty of sites out there for like-minded individuals. Find one if you don’t like what this one has to say. There are plenty!
But no, they’d rather have this site go away, along with all thought that doesn’t conform to their ideas of “tolerance.”
Is that tolerant?
Kel,
Thanks for clearing that up!! :)
I purposely try to avoid talking faith here. Except for Easter cause HE LIVES!!
I can’t seem to stay away from RHRealityCheck.org lately. Same reason I suppose that people can’t stop reading here either!! I need my hostility fix somewhere I guess.
Crystle, I’m also praying for your friend, who had this abortion, just as I’m doing the same for Angele, and Sycloria Williams, and all other post abortive wimmen. Howl, and Reality, Let me ask you this. If abortion is about a woman’s right to choose, then What were gianna Jessen’s rights? I’d incarrage you to go to http://www.bornalivetruth.org, and do some reading, and stop acting like what my history teacher used to call people airhead! And as you standing up for Gays, I’ve personally seen a woman, loose her job, because she reported to the admenastration, this Gay student was in a relationship with a gay staff member, and at this philsity, this wasn’t aloud. Sence then, I personally have lost all respect for these people! This Gay staff member broke the rules! Strate students, worn’t alloud to partisapate in this type of beheavior!
LOL, Carla! :D Hostility fix!
And yeah, I don’t talk faith too much here, either. It’s nice to talk about commonalities with other pro-lifers as opposed to our differences. :)
Angel, for the last time, no one I know wants the government to FORCE the CC to marry gay people. There will always be people who will disagree or think it’s wrong to not marry them in the RCC just like there is anywhere and in every religion. But there is a separation of Church and state here first of all, and second of all, no gay person will want to get married in a religion that doesn’t accept them. It doesn’t make any sense.
Not one person advocating for “gay marriage” that I know (and I know a lot of them) would ever advocate for forcing any church to do so, when there are plenty of churches who will do so out of their own accord. They don’t want to get married in a hostile environment- so I wouldn’t get so paranoid so easily.
Just a thought though, the longer and stronger anti- homosexuality is linked with the “pro-life”, conservative movement, the smaller the movement will become. More and more young people are looking at homosexuality as a civil and human rights issue.
Hey Vannah!
“What did you two personally think about the “throwing in the towel” comment?”
I guess I don’t really get it. As you know, I’m liberal on MANY issues; socially conservative would not describe me at all.
Abortion is important, but I think evangelicals and people like James Dobson are part of the problem. They create anti-abortion as a religious construct and then support policies that are not pro-life. (I do agree that their desperate clinging to W was part of their undoing, I just find it sad that most conservatives only realized this when his term ended).
I read a few Dobson books when I was growing up and it actually helped shape my liberal leanings. That dude is grade-A crazy and I’m glad his influence is waning.
However, I hope that in a matter of time the right to life in ALL its forms will become an important issue and that I believe that other human rights can only follow.
“P.S. Sorry for being sort of dramatic and full of melancholy- I just read Night. Depressed.”
I took an entire class on the Holocaust. I know what you mean! Night is a brilliant work.
Also, my hamster died today :( RIP Jelly
Awwww, I’m sorry to hear that, PIP. Every time I see that new car commercial with all the hamsters I always think of you and Jess.
Thanks Erin. His coffin is beautiful and we are having a funeral tomorrow. I can’t help but cry a little bit while I”m making it.
Sorry about Jelly, PIP. We buried Sniffers in the backyard.
I’m sorry about your hamster. Rest in peace, Jelly.
I hope that you feel better; I can’t imagine that this was an astounding day for you, then. Sorry. :(.
What homosexuals want.
To visit their sick sexual partner in a hospital.
As if that grants a reason for marriage.
Hi, I have been having sex with this person, and I demand to see my sexual partner. Sexual contact doesn’t confer hospital rights to visit a person.
To gain property rights.
Which are gained by partnership agreements with or without marriage. I may leave a will/testament that states that my cat gets it all.
In truth, it is up to any person to give, withhold, or deny anyone their property/investments/money,etc.
To gain Social Security benefits of another person, as a survivor.
Again, since homosexuals have defined themselves as a “sex act”, again no benefits should be given to the survivor of sex acts, based on nothingmore then sex acts.
Social Security is a insurance program with the strange(or planned) condition that leaves the right of survivorship up to the insurer(government).
Why is that? Because no private insurance corp would be in business very long from denying you the right to name the beneficiary of your insurance policy.
The real argument that homosexuals may make towards gaining a “monetary/survivor/beneficiary right”, is the fact that they are denied the right of a mandatory issued insurance policy(government), which DOESN’T allow them to name the beneficiary of that policy.
Again marriage is actually irrelevent in insurace matters, and marriage is not based, and shouldn’t be based, on gaining a beneficiary right of survivorship, of that policy.
You may name whoever you want as a beneficiary of your insurance policy(SS), which all sexes do all the time.
Change the laws of survivorship as they stand regrading Social Security, OASI. Stop the government from allowing you a simple right to name whoever or whatever you name as a beneficiary of your “insurance policy”.
Now, that I’m behind, not marriage based on a sex act as a right to visit a sick person, or to financially gain from the death of a person you had sex with. Becuase, in the end, that is all a homosexual is by self definition.
Vannah,
Read Luke 18:1-6 about throwing in the towel.
Some good news!! http://www.lifenews.com/state4059.html
More and more young people are looking at homosexuality as a civil and human rights issue.
yes, the homosexual movement has been quite brilliant in it’s strategy of portraying it as a human rights issue, but really it’s all part of the social movement to reorganize society, destroying marriage and family.
Most young people enter university both prolife and against the homosexual lifestyle. They often loose the prolife views because of the extreme indoctrination that occurs in “higher” institutions of learning by libertine profs and courses that are filled with feminist garbage. However, an intelligent young person can easily see through this crap. Don’t be fooled, many people do not support the gay lifestyle when they know the facts.
The homosexual movement has been quite shy about explaining exactly what “gay” sex involves and publicizing the stats on how unhealthy the lifestyle is.
As I said before evil loves the darkness and especially a darkness of the mind.
Angel, I don’t want to be rude, but you have no idea what you are talking about {in terms of higher education.) I have heard this too many times from disgruntled conservatives; it doesn’t occur to them that the reason people might become more liberal in college is because they get exposed to a world outside their pre-college “bubble.” They have to start thinking on their own and form arguments. This may have an impact on their social or political views- but if they turn liberal, it’s simply at a loss for you, by their own free will. It’s time people stop making excuses for them (i.e. brainwashed).
And gay couples having a civil marriage does nothing to your marriage adn family institutions. You guys can make it exclusive as you want in your religion.
well PIP I happen to have a child in a institute of “higher” learning.
The garbage this child has been forced to read is not only ridiculous it is a disgraceful waste of money and his time. And a university education does not come cheaply as you well know. And what is it done under the guise of? Free thinking? Indoctrination? An alternate point of view?
And you know what, my child recognizes it for what it is – TRASH. Do the students take this stuff seriously. NOT. In fact, they spent an afternoon mocking the articles and the positions put forth.
I don’t think too many people live in a bubble today PIP. This is not the 1950’s anymore. Pretty much everything is front and center on TV and the internet these days.
I’ll try not to take your comment as a demeaning insult to people who just don’t go for all the crap being promoted today and are labelled as narrow-minded and living in a bubble. Thanks.
Angel,
Just because you are disgruntled with what your child reads, it doesn’t make the universal statement true. If your daughter doesn’t like the book, hopefully she as well as other students in the class have an opportunity to tell their teachers that.
I attend one of those “institutions” right now, and if you ask any person whether they are being ‘indoctrinated’ or ‘brainwashed’ by ‘liberal professors’ most of them would laugh in your face.
And yes, people still live in bubbles. I lived in a small town and went to school in St. Louis. You don’t think this might be a bit outside the usual comfort zone, maybe?
Even on a college campus it’s easy to be in a bubble within it. The media is not responsible for removing the comfortable ‘bubbles” we create, only experience can do that.
Pip, you can’t say that the majority of professors aren’t liberals. That’s a fact. Nor can you say that these professors don’t push their agenda on their students. We hear stories all the time about a professor lambasting some conservative student.
I had a A&P professor say that there was no debate over ESCR. Just science and loonies.
I had an English professor design an entire course around post-colonial feminist literature in what was supposed to simply be “honors english 101.”
The same professor had NOW and Feminist Majority stickers adorning her office which we were required to meet her in for conference. You can’t tell me that she wasn’t trying to send a particular message to her students!
Just because you are disgruntled with what your child reads, it doesn’t make the universal statement true. If your daughter doesn’t like the book, hopefully she as well as other students in the class have an opportunity to tell their teachers that.
Au contraire. I am not disgruntled with what HE reads. HE is! And his experience is not unusual, judging by what I’ve heard from other students I know at other universities. This has been going on for a long time PIP. One of my siblings experienced this sort of thing in the 1960’s.
It use to be that students studied rhetoric and philosophy to learn to debate different positions and to consider new ideas. They considered real questions such as what is man, the purpose of life etc. I think such discussions today would be well beyond most undergraduates.
I do not consider the promotion of sodomy as a valid lifestyle, men menstruating, the Catholic Church is evil and so forth as valid ideas to be put forth in a university level sociology class. It’s one thing to do a class on evaluating many different religions but quite another to consistently attack only one religion – the Catholic Church. It’s one thing to discuss various “lifestyles” and quite another to promote homosexuality as being superior to heterosexuality. Don’t you think?
on a different topic:
Georgetown U. Says It Covered Over Name of Jesus to Comply With White House Request
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46667
sickening.
sickening beyond belief Jasper.
I would fear for my soul if I were the person who acquiesced to this.
I think this only continues to reinforce what many of us Catholics already knew: we have few true Catholic institutions left. I’d love to see Obama attempt to get in at Stubenville or Ave Maria.
“Most young people enter university both prolife and against the homosexual lifestyle. They often loose the prolife views because of the extreme indoctrination that occurs in “higher” institutions of learning by libertine profs and courses that are filled with feminist garbage.”
aka: Education.
There’s a reason so many of us say “college changed my life.” When done correctly, it’s an intense period of self-reflection, horizon expansion, and rigorous education.
My campus has more than its share of mindless Marxist wannabes, drugged up hippies, and anti-social anarchists. But it also had a core of thoughtful, tolerant and accomplished professors, curious and interesting students, and a community dedicated to challenging pre-conceived ideas and attitudes. I did read some stuff that is probably “garbage,” but I also learned to identify such as “garbage” and distinguish it from real ideas and important works. Students aren’t fragile, and there’s nothing wrong with studying things you don’t agree with. (sorry, “with which you don’t agree.”) The years spent in higher education are some of the most important and exciting times of our lives. I agree with PIP, I don’t understand some conservatives’ criticisms of Colleges and Universities.
Hal, of course you don’t understand. You’re a liberal. People tend to be blind to the propaganda of their own side.
Pretend the situation were switched and liberal students were being failed for writing an article on evolution or speaking out for gay marriage.
Liberals would be up in arms about how conservatives were pushing their agendas through colleges and universities.
The years spent in higher education are some of the most important and exciting times of our lives.
oh yes, as the professors work to tear down your belief system and try to divest a young person of their Christian faith.
oh yes, the excitment at the pressure to become sexually active in order to fit in…
oh yes, the excitement at having to drink oneself into a stupor because everyone else is doing so…
ah yes, the excitment of having to find somewhere really hidden in order to study so that you get known as the nerd..
oh yes, the excitement at finding out girlfriends are pregnant, were date-raped on campus or fought off predator type profs who had the role of thesis supervisor.
Yes I fondly remember the proabort doctor who came to my medical ethics class and began to stomp his feet and scream that we had all better support abortion rights for women….
Yes, important and exciting…. ah those were the years! :(
I actually remember the years AFTER my education as being the most exciting – when I was truly free to believe what I wanted and not have to produce papers filled with noxious liberal nonsense in order to pass a course…..
It’s one thing to be a predator type man in college Hal and quite another to be a young woman.
It’s one thing to be a predator type man in college Hal and quite another to be a young woman.
Posted by: angel at April 16, 2009 10:41 AM
wow, what a bitter and angry rant. Not everyone’s life sucks, you know.
You were always “free to believe what you wanted,” maybe you just didn’t have the guts to act on it. I can’t imagine Bobby, for example, tailoring his papers to conform to any “noxious liberal nonsense in order to pass.” That you felt that way says more about you than your Universtity.
Jasper,
From the article you linked to:
“The White House wanted a simple backdrop of flags and pipe and drape for the speech, consistent with what they’ve done for other policy speeches,” she added. “Frankly, the pipe and drape wasn’t high enough by itself to fully cover the IHS and cross above the GU seal and it seemed most respectful to have them covered so as not to be seen out of context…..”
….Obama did not mention the name of Jesus during his address. However, he did mention Christ’s Sermon on the Mount.
“There is a parable at the end of the Sermon on the Mount that tells a story of two men…‘the rain descended and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house…it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock,’” Obama said.
“We cannot rebuild this economy on the same pile of sand,” he added. “We must build our house upon a rock.”
Unbelievable. Does he not know that this “rock” is the Church of Jesus Christ?
* * * * * * * * * *
PIP,
You may not realize this, but calling a family a “bubble” in a pejorative sense goes against everything a family stands for. IMHO, the parents are responsible for creating a comfortable, nurturing place where their children can love, learn, and grow. If you think that must include all that is liberal and worldly, I feel sorry for you, in a way.
not bitter at all Hal. Just as Lauren said, would you write a paper in university that had to explain the prolife position or why gays should NOT be allowed to get married?
I doubt you would go for it.
You see, the liberal “tolerance” is exactly that – intolerance for any position but their own as your own response merely showed.
I’m also assuming by your post that you don’t believe crappy indoctrination sessions, date rape, excessive drinking and sex on campus and sexual harassment by professors occur in our universities.
And in fact, I’m very proud of my university degree as I finished top of my class in spite of all the liberal crap I endured. :)
You need a reality check, m’dear.
angel,
Would you mind telling us where your child attends college?
* * * * *
All, please remember in your prayers,
Dr. Thomas Dillon, President of Thomas Aquinas College, St. Paula, CA, was killed in a car accident on Wednesday in Dublin Ireland. Please pray for him, his immediate family including his wife who was injured in the crash, and for his extended family at the College.
“Unbelievable. Does he not know that this “rock” is the Church of Jesus Christ?”
his ‘rock’ is the government.
thats awful Janet, my prayers are with his wife and family.
I did have to write a paper once or twice defending views I disagreed with. It was difficult, but it was a learning experience.
I certainly agree with you that there is liberal intolerance at most universities. Certainly mine. Believe it or not, I ran into that wall a few times, as I was not liberal enough to meet community expectations at times. We had a very vocal and crazy minority of “radicals” who seemed to be under the impression everyone must think like they did. I know what you’re talking about, I just don’t agree it’s a problem.
As far as “crappy indoctrination sessions, date rape, excessive drinking and sex on campus and sexual harassment,” sure they happen at colleges, but they happen everywhere else as well. I know two women who were victims of date rape, both during high school years. Sexual harassment unfortunately happens in all settings, especially the workplace. Excessive drinking, also, is a broader problem.
I’m sorry Patricia, but you do seem bitter. You’re railing against the modern world and our institutions in almost every post. Life is short and sweet, try to enjoy it.
Guys, if someone is getting grades deducted for political reasons, or feel they can’t speak up in class, then you should talk to the teacher or the director of the program. If you feel their curriculum is unfair, then talk to someone. Just complaining about it doesn’t do the trick. Most classes I have are composed of people debating things or teachers constantly playing devil’s advocate. In my bioethical controversies class, students call my teacher on his bull**** all the time.
Quit blaming people being liberal on higher education. It’s the person in questions’ choice about where they lie on the political spectrum and if they change something they most likely have a variety of reasons to do so. You guys’ demonization of education is astounding.
(sorry for assumption about the daughter, angel).
Hal,
What do you think about Jasper’s story where Georgetown U. covered the name of Jesus where Obama would be speaking from?
Is Obama not imposing his beliefs (or lack thereof) on everyone else there by assuming Jesus’ name is offensive?
What about the old saying, “when in Rome….”? (As in “show some respect when you go to someone else’s home”…)
Hal I am not who you think!
Sorry to deflate your bubble.
And Janet I cannot release personal information on here due to the nature of some of the posters and some of the lurkers. People have been threatened on this blog.
Hal, I have a friend who has a daughter in university. The daughter has ONE other girl in her res that she is friends with. As far as they know they are the only two women who have never been drunk this, their first year.
What you seem to say is that these experiences are part of life and that we should just accept them. I am asking you, why?
Colleges and universities complain about the excessive drop-out rate of first year students yet they do nothing to actually help these young people succeed. They deliberately place men and women together in residences where they will frequently meet at awkward times, fostering sexual encounters. Bathrooms and even some rooms are co-ed. Then we are told the solution is to spread condoms throughout campuses, offer them abortions and so forth.
There are no curfews and no such thing as a dry rez. When a young person becomes dangerously drunk, the parents are not called, but a proctor is sent to watch over the student to determine if they need to go to emerg. Many of these students are underage and therefore deliberately encouraged to break the law.
I simply cannot accept that this is a normal part of maturing into an adult. It doesn’t broaden a person’s horizons and it deadens the soul (of course I know you don’t believe in this old-fashioned concept).
While you are enjoying life in luxury Hal, there are many young people whose lives are drastically affected by the choices they made during their years at university. Abortion, unplanned pregnancies, incurable STI’s and broken hearts. Are these the useful experiences you were talking about?
“Unbelievable. Does he not know that this “rock” is the Church of Jesus Christ?”
his ‘rock’ is the government.
Posted by: Jasper at April 16, 2009 11:09 AM
I don’t think his “rock” is government. I think his rock is “power”. I think Obama is a megalomaniac.
Also Janet, no need to feel sorry for me. I think it’s best that people step out of their bubble. It makes people more knowledgable first hand of the world around them and can help them understand more about what kind of issues are out there. True that family should create a safe haven, but there are times where it is best to venture out of that for a while. It’s a good experience. At SLU, we do things like that with weekend programs called “Urban Plunge” and we do that a lot with Campus Kitchens and Amnesty.
So yes, if you want to call it “worldly” I do think that getting to know the “world” on a more personal basis is a good thing.
Anonymous,
Please pick a name.
No one’s demonizing education. Just taking to task the educators who feel their personal opinions are what are most important in the classroom.
Take Aquinas College as one example of what I’d consider “good education”. I have no personal knowledge other than looking at their curriculum on their website, but take a look. It is based on the “great books”, not the social rumblings of the 1960’s, or whatever. It looks pretty interesting. I may have to go back to school myself. :)
http://www.thomasaquinas.edu/curriculum/index.htm
“I don’t think his “rock” is government. I think his rock is “power”. I think Obama is a megalomaniac.”
Yes, you’re right Angel.
To start with the last point, I don’t think we can, or should, protect people from broken hearts. Been around a long time, just ask Shakespeare.
We did have a drug and alcohol free dorm at my college and I assume it’s more common these days. We did also have co-ed dorms and bathrooms. Not the end of the world.
These “young people” are adults. If they make bad choices, they deal with the consequences. Isn’t that the conservative world view?
I agree colleges should do what they can (and more than they are) to deal with problems on campus, especially safety issues.
Curfews for adults? I’d never go to such a school.
Sexual encounters? Adult choices in a free society.
Drop out rates? Schools are very concerned about that and make efforts to curtail it. If only for financial reasons, schools don’t like students to leave.
College isn’t for everyone. But the people I know had wonderful and fulfilling experiences.
yes it does look very interesting Janet! Imagine studying from Fabre. He was a brilliant scientist. I doubt many students today know about Copernicus or Cervantes. Pascal or Ptolemy. Hah!
To start with the last point, I don’t think we can, or should, protect people from broken hearts.
no we can’t protect them but we shouldn’t encourage them to partake of activities that invite this? Would you tell your daughter to continue dating someone who admitted to your face he was only interested in having sex with her and you knew she was interested in something more out of the relationship and that if she knew the relationship was so superficial she wouldn’t bother. (you can even reverse the sexes in my scenario since this happens to men too!) I dare you Hal, to actually do this so that your daughter might have the “experience” of a broken heart.
Alcohol free dorms are not the norm. Surely you know that. For heaven’s sakes there’s been TV exposes on which colleges and universities are party schools. What planet do you live on?
And it’s one thing to have a young person take reponsibility for their choices and quite another to lead them down the path to their own destruction. Maybe you aren’t familiar with recent scientific studies that demonstrate the part of the brain that can identify consequences to actions is not fully developed in young brains until about 25 or so. Meaning many young college students simply don’t understand the implications of the choices they make at such a young inexperienced age.
IMO, you don’t have a leg to stand on.
PIP,
Thanks for your comments. If by “bubble” you mean their “comfort zone”, I agree that we need to expand our horizons and college is a good place to do that. For someone who doesn’t go to college, it may be the workplace, or the armed forces, etc. I think where we may disagree is how far those horizons need to be expanded. That can be remedied by a parent’s choosing a college for their child that will teach according to their family’s values. I see no problem with that. I don’t see it as stifling, but perhaps as further nurturing.
It’s been good chatting, but I have work to do now. Have a good day all!
Angel, I have been exposed to and studied all those you mentioned at my college.
What college students don’t know about Copernicus, Pascal, Ptolemy, or Cervantes?
I have no idea, Alexandra. Really crappy ones that only the children of irate conservatives go to, apparently.
“That can be remedied by a parent’s choosing a college for their child that will teach according to their family’s values. ”
Parents shouldn’t choose a college for their children at all. Offer advice, perhaps.
Parents shouldn’t choose a college for their children at all. Offer advice, perhaps.
Posted by: Hal at April 16, 2009 12:11 PM
I agree to an extent Hal! Depends upon what the child wishes to study imo.
I feel the child has to study something they are interested in. It may or may not be a field they might want to work in. Cost is also a factor.
“Hal,
What do you think about Jasper’s story where Georgetown U. covered the name of Jesus where Obama would be speaking from?”
If Georgetown didn’t want to do it, they shouldn’t have done it. Personal responsibility again. Why are conservatives so weak? What’s so hard about saying “Sorry Mr. President, if you want to use our facility for your speech, you’ll have to live with the background that is there.”
Obama didn’t force them to do anything.
Hal, conservatives aren’t weak. We weren’t the ones who OK’d this. Liberals within the institutions OK this type of thing and just expect conservatives to be fine with it. Trust me, if Obama asked to use my home for a speech, I’d tell him to shove off.
You are so right, Lauren @ 1:20! (no pun intended :) Maybe this will light a fire under orthodox Catholic laity who will demand a real witness of Catholic identity from liberal bishops and Catholic colleges and universities.
You talk about left-wing indoctrination at many colleges and universities in the US,which does exist, and I don’t like it at all,even though I’m no right-winger.
I believe in free speech for every one, no matter what political ,religious or social persuasion.
But there’s also religious and conservative indoctrination at conservative religious universities such as Bob Jones U and Liberty University(What liberty?).
If a student there were to say that he or she believes in a woman’s right to choose an abortion, and that what homosexuals do in private is no business of any one else’s and that they should be free to marry and have the same rights as every one, and that separation of church and state is vital for America, and that evangelical Christian dogma has absolutely no business being made the basis of US law etc, I doubt that stiudent would be greeted very favorably by faculty or other students, or get good grades.
And who are conservatives to set themselves up as the judges of what is moral or not?
You’re all talking about Obama as if he were about to turn America into some communist dictatorship. This is laughable,because the REAL threat to freedom in America is right wing politicians and the religious right. Tyranny is tyranny, whether it’s communist or theocracy.
Robert, I would say America is much more in danger of becoming a dictatorship due to liberal intolerance than any threat from theocracy. I mean public prayer and the expression of Christian religion is pretty much discouraged. It’s not even kosher to express Christian viewpoints on television (where they are ridiculed constantly) in schools etc.
When was the last time you saw people puttting down secular humanists or atheists?
And of course the Homeland security has now determined that prayerful Christians outside of abortion clinics are terrorists. I expect the gulags to be opened within the next 8 years…
Sorry Carla I come in from different computers throughout the day and forget sometimes if my moniker is not on there, those anonymous’s are me.
“Thanks for your comments. If by “bubble” you mean their “comfort zone”, I agree that we need to expand our horizons and college is a good place to do that. For someone who doesn’t go to college, it may be the workplace, or the armed forces, etc.”
I definitely agree here. But along with Hal’s thing, there needs to be some sort of freedom that is allowed in growing up in the independence of choosing a school. Obviously you have a right to say no (my mom nixed the Hawaii idea for me!), but I think allowing some freedom in choosing schools is a part of going out of the “comfort zone,” you know what I mean? I’m glad we mostly agree on this :)
“It’s not even kosher to express Christian viewpoints on television (where they are ridiculed constantly) in schools etc.”
Of course they are ridiculed. Some things get ridiculed because they are ridiculous. Religious people deserve respect, religious ideas do not.
Thanks PIP. :)
Religious people deserve respect, religious ideas do not.
Posted by: Hal at April 16, 2009 2:41 PM
except that it IS Christian people who are ridiculed
Take for example Christian marriage. This is often ridiculed. How is this done?
By portraying ridiculing Christian people – specifically by portraying Christian couples who are faithfully married as stupid mindless idiots who have babies because they don’t know what else to do or simply can’t do anything else. Of course this is pawned off as humor or satire or some other benign form.
I don’t think liberals believe religious people deserve respect Hal. They don’t act like they do.
Robert, there seems to be a trend in your posts.
You begin almost rationally and then careen off the cliff into crazyville.
Angel, I haven’t noticed much bashing of happy faithful christian married people.
Okay, how many Americans has OIbama had arrested,imprisoned and executed so far for speaking out against the government? How many gulags has he started? How many people have had a knock on the door at night? How many guns have been confiscated by the government so far?
Why are Rush Limbaugh,Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Michelle Malkin, and Laura Ingraham still mouthing off against Obama without being arrested and imprisoned? Is Pravda being published by the government and also online here?
You should read an important and sobering book by the distinguished Rabbi James Rudin called”The Baptizing of America”. This book lays bare the sinister agenda of the religious right. There’s absolutely no hatred for Christians or Christianity in it,no bigotry of any kind. Rudin has worked for many years with Christian leaders in America, and is a good friend of many of them. But it shows how real the risk of theocracy is in America.
Angel, I haven’t noticed much bashing of happy faithful christian married people.
Posted by: Hal at April 16, 2009 3:04 PM
I guess you havent seen many movies lately….:)
Obviously you have a right to say no (my mom nixed the Hawaii idea for me!), but I think allowing some freedom in choosing schools is a part of going out of the “comfort zone,” you know what I mean? I’m glad we mostly agree on this :)
Posted by: PIP at April 16, 2009 2:35 PM
ha PIP, I also wanted to go to Hawaii to study! Never got the appropriate funding though. :(
Angel, don’t act like it doesn’t go both ways. Some atheists ridicule Christian ideas.
On the other hand, you have books called “liberalism is a mental disorder.”
Of course, atheists are the most trusted religious group in the U.S. and you can practically never get elected without being Christian or some permutation thereof (a few here and there are not, but they are in a vast minority). So tell me who really is being “oppressed,” here?
I know angel, I wanted to go visit Hawaii Pacific University, and major in “marine biology” but my mom said no! haha
Instead I go to St. Louis, where the cold wind makes me want to die inside. (I could never live in Chicago UGH).
atheists aren’t***
You’re all talking about Obama as if he were about to turn America into some communist dictatorship.
I suppose his background in the New Party is irrelevant? And his expansion of the role of the federal government is also not relevant? Not to mention his intention to curb religious freedom and conscience rights when HHS rolls back enforcement of conscience protections. A government that wants to reduce the rights of some to advance the rights of others is a threat to our established constitutional republic, Robert.
How many people have had a knock on the door at night?
At night? I don’t know. But just imagine if a republican president asked his supporters to upload data on their neighbors like the Obama pledge campaign was doing last month!
well PIP I even had friends I could have lived with there!
Maybe you will still get the chance? If it’s what you want, I hope you do!! :)
I agree that some Christians ridicule atheist ideas, but most of those ideas aren’t based on reason. :)
Really, we only ridicule the truly funny ones.
you should check out Dane Cook’s atheist sneeze. He uses the f-work ALOT but he is very funny.
Angel, I think maybe I’d like to live there…at least for a while..try to get away from those midwest winters..
Posted by: Hal at April 16, 2009 2:41 PM
“Of course they are ridiculed. Some things get ridiculed because they are ridiculous. Religious people deserve respect, religious ideas do not. ”
——————————————————
Then you have a ridiculous person like pbho who promote ridiculous ideas who is rewarded by ‘angry black women’ with the presidency of the United Sates.
Remember when George W. Bush ‘stole’ the first election, the lap dog media rationalized the aberation as being the knee jerk reaction of a bunch of ‘angry white men’.
So a couple hundred thousand citizens hold rallies around the country to say they do not ‘consent’ to the course that the president and the congress have charted these last 80 days and Rachel Madcow and Keith Blowharderman write them all off as ditto heads and stooges for the republican party and Fox News.
Janet Napolitano, pbho’s appointee to head the Department of Homeland Security warns the nations law enforcement community to watch out for pro-lifers, returning veterans, and conservative idealogues.
When hundreds of thousands of people, many of whom who crossed our borders illegally and remained here illegally and work here illegally and assist other people to violate our laws held rallies in cities across America demanding ‘equal rights’ with U.S. citizens and permanent resident aliens, I wonder how Janet charaterized them.
The liberal humanist is so predictable he/she is boring.
yor bro ken
PIP and Hal,
I think we pretty much agree that parents and child should have a say in the choice of college based on major, cost, etc….
PIP,
I think St. Louis and Central Illinois have many more ice storms than Chicago. Personally, I’d take snow over an ice storm any day. Generally you don’t loose power in a snow storm. :) Chicago is beautiful in the other seasons of the year but we try to keep it a secret to keep the population from getting out of control. :) The roads are busy enough already.
“Of course they are ridiculed. Some things get ridiculed because they are ridiculous. Religious people deserve respect, religious ideas do not. ”
Hal,
You had to know that that comment wouldn’t go by unnoticed.
That’s like saying “scientists deserve respect, but scientific ideas do not, or “politicians deserve respect but political ideas do not”
I’m constantly perplexed by the hatred of non-religious people for religious, God-centered ideas. Totally perplexed.
PIP, I don’t think you have to believe in God to be electable in this country. Maybe in the Presidential election, but certainly not all the others. I really don’t see blatant oppression of non-Christians in our country.
PIP,
I’m sorry about your hamster.
* * * * *
Hal,
“If Georgetown didn’t want to do it, they shouldn’t have done it. Personal responsibility again. Why are conservatives so weak? What’s so hard about saying “Sorry Mr. President, if you want to use our facility for your speech, you’ll have to live with the background that is there.”
Obama didn’t force them to do anything.”
No, he didn’t, but do you think Obama was right in making the request in the first place? I do not.
Posted by: Hal at April 16, 2009 1:18 PM
“Obama didn’t force them to do anything.”
—————————————————–
Georgetown University says it covered over the monogram “IHS”–symbolizing the name of Jesus Christ—because it was inscribed on a pediment on the stage where President Obama spoke at the university on Tuesday and
“the White House had asked Georgetown to cover up all signs and symbols there.”
One has to wonder why the ‘White House’ [the residence of PBHO, another way of saying the Obama administration] would want an obscure three letter reference to Jesus concealed.
pbho is after all the same person who sat under the teaching of a ranting racist leftist preacher for 20 years and never heard him say a single controversial thing and would no more throw him under the bus than his soon to be departed racist grand mother.
Within two weeks granny and black preacher man were both thrown under the campaign bus.
Ashamed of an obscure reference to Jesus; not ashamed of domestic terrorists, Marxists, black supremicists.
That is documented evidence of a ridiculous man promoting ridiculous ideas.
We would not want anyone to get the wrong idea and think that pbho is a ‘christian’. We would not want the Muslim world to think that pbho was wrong/lying when he asserted that American is NOT a ‘christian’ nation.
yor bro ken
Both atheists and Christians have difficulties to contend with regarding social conceptions. Christians don’t have a positive image at all- seen as crazy, narrow-minded, and out to control the world (I actually always laugh when I read about people swearing that “the far-right is a conspiracy…it’s a plot brimming with evil”). Atheists have a conflicted image: they are largely portrayed by every television show, movie, book, etc. as being intelligent and moral, but they are also contradictions: they are at the same time portrayed as intolerant of anyone else’s beliefs, snobbish, and really anger-inducing jerks.
The important thing to remember is that neither Christians nor atheists are evil, which is quite unlike what the media’s opinions are. It’s all so foolish- the way that people make atheism or Christianity black and white, as though everyone is the same exact way.
We would not want anyone to get the wrong idea and think that pbho is a ‘christian’. We would not want the Muslim world to think that pbho was wrong/lying when he asserted that American is NOT a ‘christian’ nation.
Goodness, no!
http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/ObamaAsMuslimSource.jpg
Wow, all you people who worried about Pres. Bush listening to your conversations — now you have to worry about our Community Organizer listening to your conversation — well, only if you are a conservative apparently. Homeland Security is supposed to listen to “chatter” which criticizes Obama’s policies, “supposed” talk about job losses and the economy, etc.
Isn’t Georgetown a Catholic university? They should not have to cover up ANY Christian symbols!
And I suppose P.O. will ask Notre Dame to drape a gigantic sheet over TOUCHDOWN JESUS when he’s there in May?
That is, unless the Reverend Jenkins grows a spine and rescinds the invitation.
Liz, all I could think of when I learned of Georgetown’s “cover-up” was ( I am probably paraphrasing a bit ) “…if you deny me then I will deny you to the Father…” In a sense it is almost more disturbing than Notre Dame.
Aah, college. The best thing to do is give up on being popular among the popular folks and hang out with a niche group–friends from your major, geeks, Christians, whatever floats your boat. My favorite event was Gaming weekend, when the geeks took over an obscure floor of a building every other semester, drinking soda and eating Swedish fish, and spent 60 straight hours playing board games and rpgs. 10-year alumni of the Science Fiction Society still attended… actually, my husband and I usually make an appearance for a little while every gaming weekend. And I was only at that school a year.
So I can’t say college is all bad.
The good professors will not force you to cover a certain side of the topic. In fact, one of my professors once admitted that he would occasionally grade papers he disagreed with more leniently, because he didn’t want his grading to reflect bias. I have personally written a paper on how the “Vagina Monologues” was degrading to women (because it reduces them to a single, sexual body part) and why alternatives to evolution should be taught in public schools (evolution is an unproven idea, and creationism teaches a moral message). I am certain that these weren’t the opinions the professors expected, but I wasn’t graded poorly because of them. I would recommend figuring out early if your professor is intolerant, and getting out of the class if he is. Or alternately, you can use weasel words to at least distance yourself from what you are writing. “The argument in favor of this is….” “It is believed that…..” “One might conclude….”
Of course, college ended up being a waste of money. I finally quit after a year or so of grad school when I realized I wanted to stay at home and make babies.
And parents should absolutely have a say in the school if they are paying. If the student is paying, it’s his or her choice. If the parents are paying, it’s their choice (though most, I imagine, would provide several choices). If both are paying some, they should both get a say. If the government is paying, the government can limit the schools the money can be used for.
YCW, I agree with just about everything you posted. I wasn’t ever drunk until well after I turned 21, I didn’t have sex until after the age at which many people graduate from college or even get married, etc etc etc. And I didn’t lack for friends or find college somehow destructive to my personality. I think that maybe, had these choices been choices my parents forced upon me rather than choices they helped me make for valid reasons, I’d probably have a very different story. But it’s not like college forces reasonable people to do unreasonable things, or anything.
I’ve also never seen any professor force a paper’s point of view. That’s a bit middle-schoolish — the “write 5 pages on why [this] is good” format — and I can’t imagine any college class actually setting that forth as the standard to be emulated. In my experience it never really mattered what you said, just that you could back it up and justify it enough to prove that you’d researched the subject and put some thought into it. There was a kid in my history class who actually would write all of his papers from the most contentious, least popular point of view just for the sake of it, regardless of how he actually felt about the subject. He did quite well in the class.
And I don’t think that parents should be able to choose their child’s college, but I do think they’re perfectly within their rights to not lend financial support for decisions they don’t agree with. I think that even though it totally made me hate my life when I was 18 — I won a National Merit Scholarship, and I guess there is a list of schools who automatically offer full scholarships for that; I actually don’t know the full rules but suddenly all these schools contacted me and offered me full scholarships. Which meant that all the non-scholarship offering schools were automatically off the list of “schools my parents would help pay for.” I think that was a pretty fair decision, personally. Why should they pay $35,000 rather than $0 for some minor personality-fit advantage?
To be fair I should note that I ended up having a non-traditional college experience, since I had to take some time off for my own medical problems and then to help with those of my mother. Personally I don’t think that made much of a difference, but in the interest of full disclosure I thought I should mention it.
It certainly made all those full scholarships useless, since the school I chose was unaffordable without them and thus I couldn’t go back once my life was stable again. Oh well — life is strange that way!
God bless you, Alexandra, for assisting your mom.
Hey, thanks Eileen! I don’t usually think of it as anything particularly “good” that I did; I was just the one best able to step in and help, since I was just finishing recovering from my own health problems. My dad had to work more, not less, since the insurance didn’t cover everything. So I got a job managing a retail store to help financially, and spent all the rest of my time at home.
My mom is 100% healthy now, against predictions. Sometimes I forget it even happened at all; it was so scary and difficult, so incongruous when taken in the context of our happy and fortunate lives, that it almost seems like a dream.
To be honest, sometimes I’m grateful that I was ill, because it meant that I had already dropped everything and freed myself up – so when my mom got sick I was there to jump right in.
Posted by: Hal at April 16, 2009 1:18 PM
“Obama didn’t force them to do anything.”
—————————————————–
Georgetown University says it covered over the monogram “IHS”–symbolizing the name of Jesus Christ—because it was inscribed on a pediment on the stage where President Obama spoke at the university on Tuesday and
“the White House had asked Georgetown to cover up all signs and symbols there.”
_________________________
Ken, key word is “force.” Obama can ask. Georgetown agreeing is Georgetown’s decision. Any criticism you might have should be directed to Georgetown.
Hal,
Both the White House and Georgetown messed up on that one, IMHO.