Senate healthcare bill unveiled: Stupak amendment OUT
All you need to know is in the headlines, really…
Read National Right to Life’s statement outlining just some of the problems with Reid’s bill, unveiled last night.
Then keep making calls, which are having an impact. I tried calling Sen. Ben Nelson’s office yesterday and simply couldn’t get through to his DC office. I thought the line was out of order. My calls to 3 of his NE offices wouldn’t go through either. Finally I reached someone who said they’ve been slammed with calls re: the healthcare bill. Like I said, keep it up.
These senators are our targets…
Bayh, Byrd, Casey, Collins, Conrad, Dorgan, T. Johnson, Landrieu, Lincoln, McCaskill, Nelson, Pryor, Reid, Snowe and Warner
We must pound them. The ideal would be to shut down Senate phone lines. Even if your senators aren’t on the list, call them.
Here is the message:
Vote “No” on any health-care bill or procedure that does not include the Stupak pro-life amendment at a minimum and that will protect and preserve life both young and old.
The next vote is not on Reid’s bill itself but on debating the bill (“cloture”). This is very important vote since it requires 60 ayes, and other votes only require 50. We must reiterate “or procedure,” the gist of the 1st vote. If the bill doesn’t include Stupak-Pitts, it must not move forward in any way.
ABC unintentionally explained my point:
Reid, who has been working to get moderate Democrats on board his plan, will need all party members to support the bill if he wants to break the first Republican attempt at a filibuster, expected to be on Saturday.
The cloture vote, expected this Saturday, on whether to even start debating the bill will be the first test of the support for Reid’s health care bill. Even Reid is not sure right now if he has all the votes.
Nelson has been one of the biggest question marks for Democrats on health care and, while still undecided, he seemed inclined today to bring a Democratic bill to the floor later this week.
[Photo of Harry Reid hugging Chris Dodd after unveiling the Senate healthcare bill via the Los Angeles Times]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Well, dahhhhh. Don’t tell me anyone is actually surprised.
Ya gotta hand it to Nancy!
The compromise restored neutrality- no federal funding for abortion- unlike Stupak, which would deny women the right to purchase and health insurors to offer coverage including abortion (and jeopardize coverage for procedures like ectopic pragnancy). The far religious right is outraged, because they want to slip an attempted overtuning of Roe into the bill, and have failed.
Bystander,
Don’t be ridiculous. Coverage for ectopic pregnancy would never be jeopardized and there has never been an issue with these women receiving the needed life saving surgery.
Nor would Stupak in any way overturn Roe.
Well Mary, the George Washington University School of Public Health concluded otherwise, but obviously the only “authorities” on public health and health insurance reform you recognize are Rush and the Fox News propaganda channel.
Bystander,
My knowledge is from 40 years in the medical area and never have I seen any woman allowed to die from ectopic pregnancy or any other obstetrical emergency, and this included prior to Roe v Wade.
This is a favorite scare tactic that has been used longer than you’ve been born, that’s another reason I know its nonsense. Take it from me, these scare tactics are simply recycled when needed as apparently there are people who can still be bamboozled with them.
Yes Mary, we wouldn’t want to be “bamboozled” by scare tactics like “death panels”, “killing grandma”, “socialized medicine” “commie” “fascist”
that have been the far right’s stock in trade for 50 years, and are screamed every 2 minutes by your buddies at Fox. LOL.
I don’t know if women would be allowed to die from ectopic pregnancies, but lack of coverage for a $25,000 operation would bankrupt them.
Come on Bystander,
LOL.
The surgery would be covered, believe me. Also, thanks to free market forces and innovation, the surgery is minimally invasive and the patient can usually be discharged as soon as she feels well enough.
Why is it so bad to go bankrupt to pay for an operation that saves your life? Plenty of people the world over can’t get treatment at any price. Plenty of people the world over sell themselves into slavery for a bowl of rice a day. I would be happy to get treatment first and then work out payments later or even go bankrupt. Bankruptcy is protection from creditors not a punishment. It saves you from punishing debt.
I really shouldn’t say punishing debt.
Simply being in debt proves that you have received goods and services provided by others which exceed the value of what you have given in return. You acknowledge this when you accept debt in return for these valuable goods and services.
I just can’t understand someone being angry at or feeling cheated by those who provide valuable health services and who simply want fair compensation for their work.
@Bystander: Can we stop with the nonsense about what Stupak-Pitts does and doesn’t say? Because I’m seriously getting tired of people claiming it says stuff that it doesn’t. Here is the text of the amendment. Make your objections based on what’s actually in it, not what you have heard somebody say might be in it.
If the Senate Bill can’t pass the house and the house bill can’t pass the Senate is that not a good thing? Dick Morris said that disagreement over abortion could sink this from being passed.
“Why is it so bad to go bankrupt to pay for an operation that saves your life? Plenty of people the world over can’t get treatment at any price. Plenty of people the world over sell themselves into slavery for a bowl of rice a day. I would be happy to get treatment first and then work out payments later or even go bankrupt. Bankruptcy is protection from creditors not a punishment……
Posted by: hippie at November 19, 2009 9:45 AM
I agree. I’m not a lawyer, but I know people who have filed for bankruptcy. Filed is the operative word. It’s a legal procedure that “re-organizes” one’s debt. I don’t think it puts people out on the street. They try to allow filers to keep their homes, as I understand. (Maybe a bankruptcy lawyer could clarify.)
Mary, I find it amazing that someone who has worked in health care for 40 years has no sympathy whatsoever for the uninsured and uninsurable. I guess being a right wing extremist trumps normal human emotions.
Speaking of which, Janet, tens of thousands of motions for relief from stay are filed every day in bankruptcy court to allow creditors to foreclose on the houses of debtors. I guess that doesn’t happen in your world.
Hippie, I suggest you start using another name more descriptive of your mindset, as most “hippies” I have known wanted peace and good will among all people. How about “Hardhearted”?
Bystander,
Please, you don’t have a clue as to what people I have cared for and under what circumstances I cared for them and continue to care for them. You have no idea what their economic or social circumstances were and are. So kindly refrain from commenting on something you are totally clueless about.
Mary, I find it amazing that someone who has worked in health care for 40 years has no sympathy whatsoever for the uninsured and uninsurable. I guess being a right wing extremist trumps normal human emotions.
And I find it amazing that time after time, you deliberately ignore every point that Mary has actually made, and yet you continue to spew meaningless ad hominem attacks and insults her way..I’m not sure really whether the point is just to be a troll or whether you actually think this kind of thing is going to change people’s minds. I notice Mary hasn’t had to resort to such nonsense because she has the truth on her side.
Sweet, sweet Bystander.
Are you under the impression that this health care bill will cover 100% of Americans for every single procedure that they need, that is to their extreme benefit?
This governemnt that you would like to see control the healthcare industry has failed miserably with…
*Cash for Clunkers
*TARP
*The 787 Bailout
*The Housing Bailout
*Sufficient distribution of H1N1 flu vaccines
*Unemployment
*The impending bankruptcy of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security
So far this bill is just one big taxation orgy. Meical devices? Taxed. Individual? Taxed Individual with one kid? Taxed. Two kids? Taxed and taxed. Business? Better believe taxed.
Pray thee, what ever gives you the impression that they will do a phenomenal job with this piece of pie?
lack of coverage for a $25,000 operation would bankrupt them.
Posted by: Bystander at November 19, 2009 9:37 AM
Not necessarily, bystander, even assuming your $25K figure was accurate. If the woman is uninsured, she has a very good chance of receiving other forms of assistance.
I guess being a right wing extremist trumps normal human emotions.
Shame on you, bystander. I saw on the Media Matters site this morning that they are hiring. I’ll give you a recommendation if you like. You’d be a perfect fit for their propaganda machine.
How about “Hardhearted”?
Now there’s a textbook case of projection if I ever saw one!
Pray thee, what ever gives you the impression that they will do a phenomenal job with this piece of pie?
Delusion and blind faith…oh, and greed.
There really is no reason to try to talk sense to someone who neither respects others opinions nor cares to be intellectually honest enough to consider they themselves may be wrong. Of course, we are expected to hang on every word Bystander says, even as our thougths and reasoning are summarily rejected.
Yeah, well, Bystander, you can choose a new name, too, like “Parasite”.
Bankruptcy laws were written to help protect people from the debts they unwisely collected. That is pretty generous, I think. However the judges don’t just stick it to the creditors willy nilly. Of course giving people a reasonable and compassionate break isn’t good enough. I guess it is peace and love when you screw others, huh? When they get stuck with your medical bills, then it is just fine. If you have to contribute something commensurate to what you receive, then you are a poor victim?
“Speaking of which, Janet, tens of thousands of motions for relief from stay are filed every day in bankruptcy court to allow creditors to foreclose on the houses of debtors. I guess that doesn’t happen in your world.”
My point was that people are generally not literally thrown on the street. They down-size, they go from single-family houses to apartments. These are difficult situations, I don’t deny that. We all have our difficulties in our lives, but government intervention isn’t always the cure. You haven’t mentioned statistics on how many of these cases are directly a result of medical fees. Did you know that the Senate bill will still leave 6% of Americans uninsured, for reasons I don’t know ( that’s according to the CBO). Are they being uncompassionate as the rest of us, or just realistic?
Most people would prefer the availability of health insurance to having to beg for care or to file bankruptcy. I hope they put on enough pressure to get health care reform approved.
Thank goodness most people don’t show the utter lack of compassion of those on this thread.
” They down-size, they go from single-family houses to apartments.”
I should also say before you do, even worse, they may have to live with family for a while, or take charity and stay in shelters. People are resilient. That’s part of what makes this country great. We’ve become soft and expect to be taken care of…. this gov. plan is not the best way to go. It’s not fair that your children and their children get stuck footing the bill. Now that’s compassion.
Here’s what’s interesting about your position, By.
Yours: There are people who cannot afford insurance or aren’t insured due to preexisting conditions, therefore something has to be done about that because it’s inhumane.
To that I say: Agreed and agreed.
Where we branch off is the implementation of a program to address those injustices. You say more guvmint involvement, we say less based on the undeniable fact that guvmint has botched so many well-intentioned programs to the detriment of the people they claim they wish to assist.
The examples are endless.
Did you know that even the Dean of the Harvard School of Medicine (not exactly the bastion of right-wing thought) has given Obamacare an F?
Does that make him cruel?
There’s going to be a Million Med March across major US cities on Saturday. These are primarily doctors who are against what they see coming down the pike. The same doctors who have dedicated their lives to the service of patients.
Are they heartless?
“Pray thee, what ever gives you the impression that they will do a phenomenal job with this piece of pie?
Delusion and blind faith…oh, and greed.
Posted by: bethany at November 19, 2009 1:10 PM”
———————————————–
PLUS an unhealthy dose of the Obama-flavored Kool-aid…
“There’s going to be a Million Med March across major US cities on Saturday. These are primarily doctors who are against what they see coming down the pike. The same doctors who have dedicated their lives to the service of patients.”
Excellent news! Great comments.
From: http://www.examiner.com
Here in Chicago, the Million Med March Tea Party will take place at Millennium Park, Washington Blvd. And Michigan Ave. It includes a march down Michigan Ave. and the distribution of educational information with calls to action to passersby visiting the Magnificent Mile, during the “Festival of Lights” event. The Tea Party will take place from 12:00 pm to 3:00 pm.
Read a letter written by one of the Million Med March organizers (written before a Washington, D.C. trip in October).
http://www.millionmedmarch.com/chudacoffMD.html
A physician grassroots movement to re-establish honor, dignity and worth to the medical profession. That its sole mission is to protect the relationship between the doctor and the patient.
Most people would prefer the availability of health insurance to having to beg for care or to file bankruptcy. I hope they put on enough pressure to get health care reform approved.
Thank goodness most people don’t show the utter lack of compassion of those on this thread.
Posted by: Bystander at November 19, 2009 1:30 PM
Okay, I got it now. If people who work and pay taxes don’t give you what you “prefer” then they are not “compassionate”.
I would “prefer” a lot of things but it is ridiculous to claim that others are not “compassionate” because they don’t want to take from their families to give me what I would “prefer”. Why should their families get in line for what they need behind you so you can have what you “prefer”?
Medicaid is there for the truly needy.
Those who just “prefer” to take from others because they don’t want to pay for what they need are the ones who lack compassion for their honest, hardworking fellow citizens.
I will say this hippie. I am a nightmare for insurance companies and the only way I could be picked up is through a job.
Without it, I will need to pay over $350 in Rx alone not to mention neurologist visits, lab tests, and even possible hospitalization in case something goes horribly wrong. My brother is running into the same program, with the hugely expensive COBRA beginning to run out.
I don’t mind helping to pay subsidies for other people when they may do the same for me. It’s a mutual thing, ya know. The public option will be paid on a sliding scale so it’s not all ‘free.’ I don’t feel that getting unlucky in the health department and having to file for bankruptcy is fair at all; it is simply unacceptable and I will dare say it- economically hostile. And plus the uninsured eventually costs more money, going into hte ER time after time for ear infections and crowding the place up. I would be an absolute nightmare dealing with this and it only reminds me how worse other people have it and I would want to help them out the same they might do for me. It’s fair.
Good Morning PIP,
That is why we need health insurance reform and across state line competition. Companies would be competing for your business.
It was very difficult at one time for my family to get car insurance. Our independent agent shopped across the country, several times as we got several rejections and drops, and always found a company. We picked and chose our coverage. It might be more expensive but it was affordable.
Also, where does the money come from for the public option?
The public option will give the gov’t control over if you can even see a neurologist, or any other specialist, who you will see, and when you will see him/her.
The insurance companies will look like pushovers next to some gov’t bureaucrat who’s swamped with hundreds of thousands of requests, and yours is at the bottom of the heap.
Free market forces and competition among health insurance companies and health care providers, pharmacies, etc. is what will keep prices in check.
The gov’t will only generate more expense, inepetness, waste, paperwork, and corruption. Put simply, the gov’t will only continue to do what it does best.
That is why we need health insurance reform and across state line competition. Companies would be competing for your business.
Mary, that is exactly what needs to happen- it’s just good old common sense.
And plus the uninsured eventually costs more money, going into hte ER time after time for ear infections and crowding the place up.
Posted by: prettyinpink at November 20, 2009 1:35 AM
ER crowding isn’t a problem caused by the uninsured, PiP. It’s true that it can exacerbate the problem at times, but it isn’t the root cause. If this monstrosity passes, look for ER crowding and misuse to get worse, not better.
“I don’t mind helping to pay subsidies for other people when they may do the same for me. It’s a mutual thing, ya know. The public option will be paid on a sliding scale so it’s not all ‘free.’ ”
I don’t mind subsidies either. It is called Medicaid. It is for the poor. I am fine with that. I share the cost of medical care through insurance premiums that are far more than what I use in medical care. I am fine with that too. However insurance for every little thing adds tremendous overhead and increase costs. Also you will wait 3-4 years for the gov’t health care plan to take effect. Meanwhile we will pay taxes during those years to seed the program. Finally, you won’t get a subsidy until you pay 15% of your income in premiums. Do you spend more than that now?
Personally, I think single payer would make sense and be efficient if government had merit based hiring practices rather than cronyism and favors for political friends and businesses. Single payer also doesn’t work with an open borders policy that makes us a magnet for people who cannot contribute commensurate with what they consume in services.
Mary, the problem is that we haven’t been hard enough on insurance companies. Free market? They do the best they can to screw people on a regular basis, dropping them when they get their sickest so that their ‘market share’ is higher. Did you know insurance companies were one of the only companies not affected by the recession? Their profits ROSE by 12%. Their freedom has allowed people to get less healthy and the insurance companies healthier. No wonder our health record is atrocious.
PIP,
That’s my whole point, address the problem with the insurance companies, not by putting our health care in the hands of a bunch of government bureaucrats. Do you want some gov’t panel telling you how often you should have your breasts examined or have gynecological exams???
Guess what, its already happening. You mentioned you see a neurologist. Do you want some bureaucrat to decide who you see, when you see him/her or if you even need to? He/she just might decide someone else is more deserving and you just have to wait your turn. As I said PIP, the insurance companies will look like pushovers next to the government.
Increase competition and consumer choice of health insurance by allowing cross state selection. You can do that with car insurance. We see competing companies on TV all the time for car insurance. Do we see health insurance competition on TV? Give people tax breaks to purchase health insurance or set up their own medical accounts. I think low income people should be allowed to pay what they can into medicaid which may help with costs. Let people pick specifically what they want to cover. I do that now with my workplace insurance.
Perhaps these reforms would lead to more companies being established and increased competition and selection.
Tort reform would be hugely beneficial. I believe in England that if you file a lawsuit and its thrown out or lost, you pay all the fees, your opponent’s as well as yours. That could certainly put the kabosh to frivolous lawsuits.
Hi PIP,
“They do the best they can to screw people on a regular basis, dropping them when they get their sickest so that their ‘market share’ is higher. ”
What does this mean exactly? (“Market share”.) Do you mean stock price?
“Did you know insurance companies were one of the only companies not affected by the recession? Their profits ROSE by 12%. Their freedom has allowed people to get less healthy and the insurance companies healthier. No wonder our health record is atrocious.”
Posted by: prettyinpink at November 20, 2009 1:52 PM
I don’t know much about the insurance industry other than what I read here. How do you make a direct connection between profits and a population in poor health with so many other possible variables involved? How many people are dropped because they get too sick? I hear about it , but I never see the hard facts. Sorry if that’s too many questions!
PiP- I’m curious. Where’s your 12% figure coming from? Even left-leaning PolitiFact rated Obama’s claim of record insurance profits as false.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/23/barack-obama/health-insurance-company-turned-profit-not-rec/
http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/08/25/why-health-insurers-make-lousy-villains.html
They do the best they can to screw people on a regular basis
Have you compared denial rates for Medicare & Medicaid vs private companies, PiP?
Yes, PIP, let’s get the governemnt in on this since they have done such a stellar job with everything else this year, haven’t they?
Funny, during the summer, Obama was criticizing pediatricians for their tonsillectomy obsessions, and surgeons for amputating too many feet to get their $40,000 (or was it $30,000?).
That line didn’t stick, so now it’s the big, bad insurance companies. Let’s sock it to them.
Never fear rationing, my friends. The good folks at Timely Medical (Canada) are here to help.
From their website:
“While recognizing that many Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems in the world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives Inc. also recognize that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the waiting list for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures.
Our organization was formed in 2003 to help Canadians from coast to coast, to “Leave the queue” and take personal responsibility for their own private medical services.. Since then we have helped hundreds of Canadians obtain second medical opinions, MRI’s / CT scans / PET scans (within days) and surgery (within weeks). We have helped our clients to regain their mobility, to get relief from chronic pain, to get diagnoses of illnesses and we have, in some cases, helped to save the lives of a number of our fellow Canadians.”
Click on the link to see their nifty little wait times comparison chart.
http://www.timelymedical.ca
And did I mention all the taxes we get to pay for free healthcare?
Well?
Let me rephrase that.
Did I mention all the taxes WE WILL BE FORCED TO PAY for free healthcare?
Hi Carder,
Many Canadians think they have the best health care system in the world? Does that include the 875,000 on waiting lists?
Also, why were hospitals on the U.S.-Canadian border contracted to provide services for Canadians their own wonderful system couldn’t provide themselves?
“Let me rephrase that.”
“Did I mention all the taxes WE WILL BE FORCED TO PAY for free healthcare?”
Posted by: carder at November 21, 2009 12:58 AM
The politicians voting for this bill (and their Democratic constituents) don’t pay taxes, remember?
A special thanks to Abby Johnson, the ex-director of the Bryan Texas Planned Parenthood office on 29th Street:
Abby Johnson now encourages thinking and loving individuals to place a special value on others who are (also humans made in the image of God) and in the same stage of development that “They were”!
The thoughts that dance in the mind of humans, is conceived in their heart and hinges on the pivotal question that ushers in the undeserved “Death penalty” for the unborn; or the joyous excitement, anticipating the soon coming birth of a child.
The question that answers the complex motive for a person’s actions after conception is “Is the pregnancy and baby wanted or rejected by one or both parents (or families) of the child”?!!!
And if most women-with-child was loved by the child’s father,
she would smile and happily say “No abortion” why bother.
Ask God and the person you mated with to forgive you,
forgive yourself and live the abundant life.
Sincerely ProBaby,
Arthur Trafford
People will always seek abortion. ALWAYS. Regardless of the non-support you have for abortion, it will always be needed. So the question becomes not if, but how? How to reduce the number seeking abortion? How to provide safe access? How to ensure we don’t overpopulate the planet, and everyone has quality of life that we have?
Education, prevention through contraception, and eradicating the stigma of single motherhood and ensuring gender equality are ways to reduce abortion, but people who decide on abortion have a legal right to sterile, affordable access to an abortion.
If you don’t like it, work to end it through prevention with contraception, factual sex education, and gender equality.
Arthur,
It isn’t always about forgiveness.
Everyone has the right to reproductive CHOICE.
It is the choice we protect.
Stupak-Pitts would have removed CHOICE – the option for an abortion. No woman in the public exchange could be provided with abortion coverage by any company that participated in the exchange. To previous posters, yes, that effectively denies the legality of Roe v.Wade to thousands of middle class woman.
The Hyde Amendment prevents federal funds from being used to get an abortion – illegal as well and needs to be challenged. (Anyone noticing this unjust war we’ve spent ka-trillion federal dollars on, killing literally thousands of innocent civilians including children?)
Every woman has a legal right to an abortion. Whether she CHOOSES to get one or not, is her decision.
Abortions go down when people are educated and when horny boys use condoms – start a campaign Christian promise ring wearers (Bristol Palin wore one too).
The most important thing to remember is:
Women have the capacity, the love and the compassion to decide on this issue FOR THEMSELVES~
Respect each woman. Do your best to make it unnecessary. Stop trying to make it illegal.It is a natural right.
People will always seek abortion. ALWAYS. Regardless of the non-support you have for abortion, it will always be needed. So the question becomes not if, but how? Posted by: Alina at November 24, 2009 6:31 PM
That some women will always want to have an abortion doesn’t mean it’s “needed.” It only means some will always desire it. Desire and necessity are two different things. Some men will always want to rape. Others will always want to steal. Doesn’t mean we look for ways to accomodate them in doing it.
Stupak-Pitts would have removed CHOICE – the option for an abortion. No woman in the public exchange could be provided with abortion coverage by any company that participated in the exchange. Posted by: Kristine Wentson at November 24, 2009 6:45 PM
“Provided with” seems to be the operative part of that statement. What you really mean is no woman could be “provided with” abortion coverage at the taxpayer’s expense. She’d have to purchase her own coverage. I think you have the last part of your statement wrong. Are you suggesting that any insurance company that participates in the exchange is prohibited from offering separate abortion coverage?
Anyone noticing this unjust war we’ve spent ka-trillion federal dollars on, killing literally thousands of innocent civilians including children?)
Ever notice how many thousands of innocent children die in abortion mills every day?
Every woman has a legal right to an abortion. Whether she CHOOSES to get one or not, is her decision.
Her choice, her money.
Respect each woman.
I do. Including those in the very earliest stages of life that you want to kill with my tax dollars.
Posted by: Alina at November 24, 2009 6:31 PM
Oh, I see now. Educate people on how to have sex outside of marriage, encourage them by telling them that single parenthood is perfectly normal and acceptable, and then provide safe murder facilities. THAT is how to minimize abortion!
Suddenly I see!
*eyeroll*