The big topic amongst political cartoonists this week was FL Pastor Terry Jones’ now abandoned plan to burn a pile of Korans. Here were 2 of the liberals’ best shots…
by Jeff Danziger at GoComics.com…
by Lalo Alcaraz at GoComics.com…
And conservative response, first by TobyToons at RedState.com…
by Chip Bok at Townhall.com…
by Glenn McCoy at Townhall.com…
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
The leftwing MSM needed to smear those opposing the Ground Zero Mosque as bigots, in order to distract attention from Iman Rauf’s anti-American comments, his mysterious financing, and the fact that Muslim extremists want the mosque built so badly that (according to Rauf himself) they’ll become violent if it’s stopped. So they found Rev. Jones, an out-of-state pastor with a congregation about a quarter of the size of my dormant blog’s readership, and gave him tens of millions of dollars’ worth of publicity as part of an attempt portray him as the face of conservative opposition to the mosque. The goverment itself contributed taxpayer dollars to this political initiative, deploying the State Department, the military and the FBI to confront this imagined right wing threat — while ignoring the countless Bibles and flags that get burned and desecrated daily on YouTube.
November can’t come soon enough.
November won’t change the media.
Changing the government will be enough. And seeing the media’s tears will be gratifying.
and you expect the new government to be different in what ways?
I’m not even sure what the opposition is complaining about.
Hal,
The progressive/liberal/humanists raise the spectre of sharia law being imposed in America by the taliban, but they are not referring to the Jew hating mass murderers like the sociopaths that hijacked and kamikazeed fully loaded civilian airplanes into the World Trade Center on 9/11.
The leftist are attempting to equate conservative christians with the jihadists of the taliban and al quaeda because they fear conservatives ballots more than the muslm terrorist’s bullets.
Purportedly ‘moderate’ muslims announce plans to build an Islalmic community center in close proximatety to the crime scene and mass grave of 3000 americans and when survivors and families of the victims object, they are labeled by liberals and MSM as islamophobes, bigots and haters.
When one obscure christian pastor announces plans to burn copies of the koran, muslim imams react by issuing fatwahs and dispatching contract killers to murder the pastor, his family and members of his congregation. We know this to be true because the MSM cites reliable sources in the FBI as proof.
Hal,
Surely you can see the disproportionality of the two responses.
The imam who wants to build the community center can not be so stupid that he does not understand how most New Yorkers and most Americans would view not only his plans, but also his motives.
To attribute the ill advised plan to insensitivity is an understatement of biblical proportions. This no less a deliberate act of insult and provocation, than the florida pastor publicly announcing his plans to burn the koran.
Let us juxtaposition.
Suppose an imam burned bibles.
What would be the response of most conservative christians.
A yawn, a frown, and perhaps a prayer for the pyromaniac.
Suppose a christian announced that he was going to build a swine rendering plant across the street from a mosque?
Would the imam find this plan offensive and would he lobby the appropriate governing body to intervene a stop the project.
Would the imam attribute the plan to mere ‘insensitivity’ on the part of a culturally igonorant infidel or would he correctly identify it as deliberate insult and provocation?
Would the ‘moderate muslim’s’ response be?
I do not believe it would be the indifferent silence we so often experience when the ‘radical jew hating mass murdering muslims commit another act of mayhem.
Would the president of the United States have the Secretary of Defense call the imam and ask him not to proceed with his plans. Would the President have the Attorney General dispatch FBI agents to inform the imam that they cannot guarantee the safety of him or his family or his congregants?
Would conservative christians dispatch assassins to murder the imam and his followers?
“and you expect the new government to be different in what ways?
I’m not even sure what the opposition is complaining about.”
(1) Different on spending, healthcare, abortion policy, judicial confirmations, etc,, enough to hold Obama at bay until Mrs. Palin or a candidate endorsed by her replaces Obama in January 2013.
(2). They’re complaining about a dishonest America-hating, Sharia-loving Imam who’s going to raise millions from foreign sources to build a mosque that he’s publicly stated has the support of Islamofascist murderers. I thought I made that clear enough above. If you feel the need to ask again what the opposition is complaining about, you can re-read this comment or the first one I posted.
The government has nothing to do with someone who wants to build a community center or mosque at any particular location. Certainly not the federal government.
Your first post was clear enough about your feelings on the MSM. I guess I was just unaware that the military had been deployed to stop this pastor in Florida. I missed the connection between your complaint in the first post and your hope for change in the Fall election. Now that I understand that Obama sent troops to this church, it all makes sense.
You can count me as someone who really doesn’t care if someone burns Korans, Bibles, or the flag. (assuming they own it and are not endangering anyone)
I never said Obama sent troops to the church. He did send two FBI agents there to make their usual Chicago-style threats. His abuse of the military consisted of having a top general announce that the pastor’s threat to burn a Koran was a threat to American lives.
The current administration has had everything to do with this particular someone building a mosque at this particular location. Obama and his administration have openly endorsed it, and they’ve been actively trying to drum up support for it — in the same way they’ve been actively discouraging the pastor from burning the Koran. (By the way, a couple of Korans were burned at the NYC rally yesterday without the military expressing its phony concern at Obama’s behest).
November will bring a refreshing end to this administration’s nasty, unconstitutional, divisive tactic of calling everyone racist or Islamophobic whenever it’s losing a battle on some policy issue. Obama and the minority Democrats will be way to busy dealing with the tidal wave of subpoenas that will their way to expose and righteously punish their corruption.
It’s all insane. Issuing Fatwahs and burning Korans and what have you. What’s most insane is opposition to the construction of a community center on private property in downtown Manhattan, all in close proximity to some adult video stores and gentleman’s clubs and dive bars. Ah, hallowed ground.
Nagem,
Opposing a community (i.e. recruiting) center that caters to terrorists is MORE insane than issuing Fatwahs (i.e. threatening to kill people)? Hmmm. I think the death threats would be more insane that opposing the center, even if we accepted Rauf’s utterly dishonest account of his intentions.
It’s not a center to recruit terrorists. I’ve been trying to remain quiet and slip slowly away, unnoticed, but your comments are unjust. Muslims aren’t evil and Islam is not an evil religion. The mosque will be built near Ground Zero, not on it. And you can’t pretend to speak for all New Yorkers even if you are a New Yorker. We as Americans were attacked, yes, but it’s their city and, frankly, I speculate that they see 9/11 differently from how you see it. Why would they see it as an excuse to hate Muslims? They lost friends, family, children, parents. I imagine that they see it as a painful injury, not a reason to further spread lies and ignorance about Islam.
Read the Qu’ran sometime.
Vannah, are you aware that it was a similar center in Germany where the 9/11 terrorists first met to plan their attacks on our city? Are you aware of the many statements of the man who is the main planner of this?
Vannah,
I didn’t say anything about hating Muslims. That’s the left-wing media’s smear on everyone who opposes the Mosque. I’ve focused quite narrowly on the Iman who’s behind the venture, and as I’ve said repeatedly before, he’s an America-hating, Sharia-loving man who had made it clear he is fulfilling the wishes of radical Islamofascist. And the guy who bought the building was a waiter just few years ago, somehow coming into millions of dollars despite a criminal record of assault and soliciting a prostitute. Oh, and they’ve only got $10,000 to build right now but will have the $100,000,000 mosque completed by 9/11 of next year. Nothing fishy about that, no?
As to the mosque being on Ground Zero, the title of Arabic version of the Iman’s book is “A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center.” He didn’t pick the site by accident, and it’s no accident that the Islamofascists are threatening violence if he moves it anywhere else. A chunk of one of the 9/11 planes smashed onto the building, and it was the closest available parcel to where the towers stood.
Read Rauf’s lips sometime.
Oh, and Vannah, are you aware of the fact that the Qur’an instructs Muslims to lie to non-Muslims?
It is the concepts of Taqiyya (saying something that isn’t true) and Kitman (lying by omission.)
From the Qur’an:
Qur’an (16:106) – Establishes that there are circumstances that can “compel” a Muslim to tell a lie.
Qur’an (3:28) – This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to “guard themselves.”
Qur’an (9:3) – “…Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters…” The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.
Qur’an (40:28) – A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must “hide his faith” among those who are not believers.
Qur’an (2:225) – “Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts”
Qur’an (66:2) – “Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths”
Qur’an (3:54) – “And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.” The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)
Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be “compelled” to deceive others for a greater purpose.
From the Hadith:
Bukhari (52:269) – “The Prophet said, ‘War is deceit.'” The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad’s men after he “guaranteed” them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).
Bukhari (49:857) – “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.” Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.
Bukhari (84:64-65) – Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an “enemy.”
Bukhari (50:369) – Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka’b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad’s insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka’b’s trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.
From Islamic Law:
Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 – 8.2) – “Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory… it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression…
“One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.
@Elizabeth:
Clearly most Americans do not know how to read the Quran in Arabic. Arabic and English are from two completely different language branches. I know both Arabic and English and I can say to you the majority of the time the English translation of the Quran does not convey or come close to what the Arabic meaning states.
Makes me believe most people are SHEEPLES who rely following others rather than learn for themselves.
There are a lot of Muslims who do not understand Arabic so they rely on the Imams or other people. It is how terrorist and extremists leaders are able to get people to join their causes. They lie to uneducated, unsuspecting people about what is or isn’t written in the Quran and other Islamic texts.
It is how non-Muslims are able to sit around their computer all day bringing up websites that are in English and saying “Hey look all the hate here” rather than learning for themselves.
However, we all know the majority of US citizens believe whatever the politicians, priests, etc. tell them. Most are probably too lazy or do not have the ability to learn something new.
How many of you are aware that there was a mosque on the 17th floor of World Trade 1 and that it was destroyed on 9/11?
[sound of crickets chirping]
your bro ken wrote:
“Let us juxtaposition. Suppose an imam burned bibles. What would be the response of most conservative christians.”
No, let’s not talk about juxtaposition. Let’s talk about facts.
In South Africa, a lay Muslim sought to burn a Bible.
An Islamic group went to court to stop it. They won.
The court ordered a halt to the plan.
So, if we’re going to talk juxtaposition, why didn’t any US Christian groups go to court to deter Jones?
I’ll tell you what I see here. I see ignorance and hate. That’s what I see.
[sound of crickets chirping]
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/SA-court-blocks-plan-to-burn-Bible/articleshow/6538890.cms
Finally, I asked myself why the pro-life blog I’ve been lurking at is banging on imams and bible burning, then I discover that the blog is connected to World Net Daily.
You folks are being played like a banjo.
Jill, fire ’em up. Get those fundamentalists out to the polls in November any which way you can. Even if it means telling them that Obama is the anti-Christ.
Folks, try researching “world net daily” and billionaire whoremonger “richard mellon scaife.”
Google is your friend.
For the record:
I walked precincts for Barry Goldwater.
He was a REAL conservative.
Annie,
(1). You argument would be more compelling if you offered the allegedly innocent Arabic-to-English translation of the verses cited by Elizabeth, rather than just claiming that they have been mistranslated or misinterpreted by Imans and sheeple.
(2) My argument against the Ground Zero mosque do not rest on the Koran or translations thereof. Iman Rauf’s problem is not that he translates Arabic too poorly, but that he speaks English too well. And his pronouncements in English, a language I understand, indicate that he is a tool of violent Islamofascists.
“How many of you are aware that there was a mosque on the 17th floor of World Trade 1 and that it was destroyed on 9/11?”
My quarrel is with the Islamofascist mosque proposed for 51 Park Place, not the one destroyed by Islamofascists on 9/11. You’d have to tell me more about the people running the 17th floor mosque before I could pass judgment on it.
mp,
Nobody ran to court to stop Jones because America is a free country which does not restrict symbolic speech. I do not know anything about the Muslims who sought to enjoin a Bible-burning in South Africa, but their hatred of free speech suggests an Islamofascist bent. In any event, nothing that happened in Soutg Africa bears on the question of whether Rauf’s mosque’s is backed by Islamofascists.
What is interesting is that the atheists, secularist and left leaning liberals are all on the side of the Muslims against Christianity. So once they have us locked up, shut up, and tied up, that’s when they will realize who they are in bed with. Because the Muslims won’t stop with the Christians, they will eventually turn on the liberals too.
mp,
Thank you for sharing your shocking discoveries about World Net Daily, Mr. Scaife and their control over my mind. Had Jill not slipped up by accidentally linking to hundreds of her WND articles over the years, this dirty little secret might have been kept under wraps. And I will look into this “Google” thing of which you speak.
While you’re reading WND, you might review some of its coverage of Mr.Obama. They don’t call him the Antichrist (we all take at face value the President’s assertion that he is a devout Christian), but they do address some of the puzzling difficulties regarding the documentation of his birth. Perhaps you’d like to debate some of those facts here.
In any event, none of your assertions address the questions regarding the Islamofascist support for Rauf’s proposed mosque. You almost seem to be avoiding the topic.
Any outrage over this?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/09/12/assailants-stab-beat-christian-worshippers-outside-indonesias-capital/?test=latestnews?test=latestnews
“They don’t call him the Antichrist (we all take at face value the President’s assertion that he is a devout Christian)”
Oh really? Someone who knows how to search Jill’s archives could prove that wrong pretty quickly. If you take the President at his word about his faith, Raving Theist, that’s good. But trust me, there have been a few suggestions here over the last two years that perhaps Mr.Obama is not a devout Christian. I’ve heard Muslim, secular humanist, and yes, Antichrist. (one poster said, He’s not “the Antichrist,” but “an Antichrist.” )
Carla, that’s outrageous. No one doubts that people of all faiths and no faith are subject to persecution in various places around the world. We can condemn it. But, when it happens in our country, which we love so dearly because of our ideals of tolerance, and freedom, it becomes our responsibility not just to speak out, but to do something.
Hal,
It happens every day around the world to Christians. 500 Christians a year are killed. Many more are tortured and beaten.
Please give me some links to stories of other faiths that are persecuted at such a rate.
Nary a peep of outrage over it, Hal. Tolerance? The ones who are the most intolerant are the ones always squawking about tolerance!
Voice of the Martyrs
http://www.persecution.com/
I can barely stomach what my fellow believers in Christ go through for nothing more than refusing to renounce Him. They believe in God, they read the Bible, they worship Him and they are tortured or killed for it!
Hi again Hal,
Don’t get me started! :O
I don’t mean to unleash on you but it more than breaks my heart that my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ die for their beliefs.
Hal,
The “they” I was referring to was the coverage at World Net Daily, not the commenters on this blog.
I don’t believe all who oppose the Park51 project are bigots or racists. I do believe, however, that they still fail to distinguish between the radical, violent terrorists we’re fighting and the peaceful Muslims who attend mosque in the United States.
Hi Carla, I can’t say other faiths are persecuted at the same rate as Christians. I just don’t know enough. I didn’t say anything about rates. I said that people of all faiths face persecution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Current_situation
sometimes even right here in the good ole USA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus#United_States_of_America
Hindu immigrants, constitute approximately 0.5% of the total population. They are also the second most affluent religious group after the Jews. Hindus in USA enjoy both de jure and de facto legal equality. However, it is widely acknowledged that the Hindu community in USA became more politically active after a series of attacks by a street gang called the “Dotbusters” in the New Jersey area in the year 1987.[148]The lackadaisical attitude of the Police, prompted the South Asian community to arrange small groups all across the state to fight back against the street gang. The perpetrators have been put to trial.
The Christian organization Operation Save America organized protests against the reading of a Hindu prayer in the US Senate.[149]The organization later confirmed that Ante Pavkovic, Kathy Pavkovic, and Kristen Sugar were arrested from the chambers “as that chamber was violated by a false Hindu God.” Right wing historian David Barton justified the protests on the grounds that the prayers were “polytheistic” and contrary to the beliefs of the Founding Fathers of America.[150]
mp:
“I’ll tell you what I see here. I see ignorance and hate. That’s what I see.”
Are you talking about one pastor, or is it cultural malaise?
Hal:
“The government has nothing to do with someone who wants to build a community center or mosque at any particular location. ”
Actually that is not true. It happens every day across the country, and not just for churches and the like, but basically any type of commerical or residential development. They are called zoning laws, a function of government. Quite often there are hearings on proposals that engender controversy which allow for supporters and opponents of a given project to voice their opinions–these too can have a bearing on the ultimate disposition of a project by the zoning board and/or subsequent appeals to that decision.
Jerry, correct I meant the federal government.