The sex life of Obama’s 12-year-old daughter
Obama is talking freakier and freakier about the projected sex lives of his young daughters.
Everyone is familiar by now with Obama’s infamous March 29 statement:
Look, I got two daughters – 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby. I don’t want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn’t make sense to not give them information.
At the time I wanted to puke at Obama’s suggestion he would not just condone but push to abort his own grandchildren since he considered teen pregnancies punishment.
But at last night’s Compassion Forum in PA Obama lowered the threshhold his daughters might “make a mistake” and have sex from age 16 to “12 or 13.” What kind of sicko is this guy? First came the question from Newsweek’s Jon Meacham…
Sir, in an earlier occasion in an earlier occasion in talking about your own daughters and talking about sex education and contraception, you said that you would not want your daughter “punished with a baby” if she made a mistake, that you would teach values and morals, but if something were to happen. The phrase “punished with a baby” was jarring to a number of people. Could you explain what you meant by that?
Obama’s response:
… What I was saying was that my daughters are 9 and 6. And so if, at the age of 12 or 13, they made what I would consider to be a mistake, in having sex or unprotected sex, and ended up getting pregnant – I think that statistically we know 12- or 13-year-olds who are having children are much more likely to be impoverished, are much more likely to have health problems, are much more likely to have trouble raising that child.
Well, OMG. Obama imagines the possibility that his now 9-year-old daughter in 3 years might have consensual sex? Obama would leave her alone with a boy at age 12? Let her date at age 12?
And if she were impregnated by an adult man? In that case Obama has already voted against parental notification laws as IL state senator. So he has voted against being notified if his 12-year-old daughter aborts.
He added to that as US senator by voting against a minor interstate abortion trafficking law. So thanks to him an adult rapist could whisk his daughter from one state to another for a clandestine abortion without his ever knowing.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
A father is supposed to be the protector and guardian of his daughter. Yet this man is already assuming he is going to fail at this and is looking for a way out. What is sick, sick man.
That’s right. If your daughters get knocked-up as unwed teenagers it means that you’re a crappy parent.
Teen pregnancy is a sure sign that dysfunctional parents produce slutty, loose-legged trash!
CERTAINLY we don’t have any crappy parents or slutty teenage trash on THIS board…
“… I am going to teach them first about values and morals..”
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IF they get PROPER values and morals from their parents in both WORD and DEED…chances are slim that the kids will end up making the wrong decisions on life…
Bobby, he did say “if,” and while I think it’s a bad situation, some 12 and 13 year olds are indeed getting pregnant these days.
For some girls at 16 or 17, let alone at 12 or 13, a baby could also indeed be “punishment.” Not for everybody, no, but for some, and thus I say let them keep the choice they now have.
Doug I firmly disagree with you. I think the only reason it is “sometimes” a punishment is because society is telling us that it is a punishment and that is what makes young women feel that way. How many times have you heard, “if she has a baby her life is ruined!!” or whatever?
I don’t think there is anything wrong with Senator Obama’s comments. You guys are trying hard to be offended by everything he says. If he said “fathers are important,” you’d be complaining he disrespected mothers. The guy is pro-choice. I know you don’t like that. Pro choice people are glad abortion rights exist, partly because we would want our daughters to have access to safe abortions if they became unintentionally pregnant at a young age. I have two daughters too. I don’t want them to have sex at this age. I’m trying to give them proper guidance and teach them morals, as well as responsibility. I’m not perfect, they’re not perfect. I think “chances are slim that the kids will end up making the wrong decisions on life…” If they do, I wouldn’t want them punished by having a child.
Laura, why hello. I’ve been on vacation. How long have you been posting sans censorship? Keep the comments on the topic and not vicious, and you can stay.
You’re muddying this, however. We’re talking about preteens (12-year-olds) and very young teens (13-year-olds) – Obama’s age choice for discussion. Under no circumstances should these girls be having sex. Do you agree?
And PP’s own studies show the younger the girl having sex, the greater the likelihood it is with an adult.
Per Obama, abortions in these cases should be without parental input, even if the man trafficks his victim out-of-state.
I am a father of a now 18 year old daughter.
She was brought up with all the facts religious, secular, and sexual.
If she had made a “mistake” which is really a sin (call it what is really is), got pregnant, it would have been my fault since I was responsible for her until she reached the age of 18.
Nither her or the baby should be punished as Barack intimated and I agree with. However, all agreement ends with the solution. I would take responsibilty for raising that child and providing for my daughter, not killing the child. One solution is compassionate the other solution is partnering with evil.
In the case where there is no father or mother or family support, then the church and government should take the responsibilty for not having protected this girl properly against an unwanted pregnancy.
On the surface, the easy and cheaper way out is abortion. However, the costs are really incalculable as we are realizing this today. The Democrat way of handling this issue is simply wrong and will lead to more and more and more destruction to our country.
The only solution is to turn back to godly principles. Apart from a major revival of faith and values in this country, I just don’t see how we get out of this moral delemma.
It seems that the Democrat solution is evidence of the dysfunctional state our country is in. This sweep-it-under-the-rug, quick-and-dirty, deny-it-by-calling-it-something-else approach is leading to a societal collapse or “bottom”, similar to what happens to families and their individual members when the dysfunction is not properly dealth with.
Legal abortion should be abolished. Planned Parenthood dismantled and defunded and the funds earmarked for teaching abstinence, and providing care for pregnant mothers in diffiuclt circumstances. This is the right thing to do and I believe God would bless our country beyond what we could imagine if we did this.
Admitting that what we have allowed and done and then turning away from the practice is the only solution. We also need to have a national day of reconciliation for the mothers who have had abortions but are suffering with the guilt and a memorial day for the 50,000,000 babies we have slaughtered over the last 35 years. We should also provide loving and compassionate support to woman who have aborted and help them to be freed from this burden of guilt.
The wrong path, which we are curretnly on, leads to an abyss that we may never be able to recover from.
If kids focused more on school and work, and less on the notion that you should have hours and hours of free time every day to entertain yourself with, then maybe teenage pregancy wouldn’t be such a problem.
At the very least, trivia games wouldn’t be as dumbed down as they have become. ;)
Hal:
I admire that your intent is to bring up your daughters with morals. Good intentions, however, do not result in success. Only the application of godly principles to one’s life brings true success. What morals exactly would you teach your daughters?
Kids learn not by what we tell them but by what we live. I had to learn this the hard way. Thank God I came around early enough so that the damage done was minimal and repairable.
Unless the morals that you teach your daughters include admitting to at least yourselves, that what you did in having irresponsible sex that led to two pregnancies that were aborted, was wrong, then they are doomed to repeating the same mistakes apart from God’s intervention. This is guaranteed. Why, because sin is not just something one does, sin unrepented of, has a contractual right to hold power in your life and the lives of your children. Saint Paul discussed this battle that wages war in our souls and bodies at length.
I am not advocating that you tell your daughters all at this point. What I am advocating is coming clean with God, whose grace will then be applied to your whole family, diffusing the power of sin.
Destructive behaviors like sexual abuse, alcoholism, drug abuse, sexual addictions, etc. are passed from one generation to the next. Any intervention counselor will tell you that the first step in recovery or being freed from the power of sin (addiction) is admitting that a wrong has been done and that a decision made to turn away from it. The secular counseling world has really discovered a Biblical principal that has been taughts for ages. “There is nothing new under the sun”.
I am not implying that you’re a sex or drug addict or an abuser, however, sin is sin. You yourself have revealed what happened. And Hal, my only reason for saying all this is not to make you feel bad. What I am telling you is the truth you need to hear and I am trying to save you and your family from experiencing the devastation that results from living lives apart from God’s principles. You can accept what I say or reject it. So, take this as one who is concerned about you and not as one trying to attack you.
What was the old saying?
“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”
This definitely applies here…but Obama and his ilk think that abortion is a “cure”.
As Jill stated, in the event that our teen daughters do get pregnant, it’s not just THEIR kids they’re killing..it’s also OUR grandchildren being killed.
Hisman. I appreciate the tone of your message, and the good intent behind it. As you know, turning to God is not my way, but I understand your sincere belief that your suggestions would assist me.
don’t think there is anything wrong with Senator Obama’s comments. You guys are trying hard to be offended by everything he says. If he said “fathers are important,” you’d be complaining he disrespected mothers. The guy is pro-choice. I know you don’t like that. Pro choice people are glad abortion rights exist, partly because we would want our daughters to have access to safe abortions if they became unintentionally pregnant at a young age. I have two daughters too. I don’t want them to have sex at this age. I’m trying to give them proper guidance and teach them morals, as well as responsibility. I’m not perfect, they’re not perfect. I think “chances are slim that the kids will end up making the wrong decisions on life…” If they do, I wouldn’t want them punished by having a child.
Posted by: Hal at April 14, 2008 10:32 AM
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I agree. And anyone who tries to pretend the antichoice attitude towards sexual activity is punative is not being honest. Yes, having a baby at 17 will “ruin” the lives of most young women. Refusing to face that fact is not being honest either.
No one is saying 14 year olds SHOULD be having sex. But they ARE having sex. Should they be compelled to continue these pregnancies or should they be allowed to end them? Antichoicers want to insist that *anyone* who gets pregnant through consentual sex has an *obligation* to continue the pregnancy. This attitude is punative whether you want to admit it or not. Trying to pretend Obama is encouraging young girls to be sexually active or supportive of it is being blatantly dishonest.
Hal,
I know you like Obama, but lately every time he opens his mouth, he seems to be lowering the bar on what we should expect from our future president.
I’m not happy with Obama or Hillary because of their abortion stands but, I’m thinking that Hillary is looking better every day in comparison to Barak, something I never thought I’d say.
Hal and HisMan,
I like the way you two are discussing this with each other :)
Wow, 12 – 13 year olds having sex and getting pregnant. How disturbing is that.
Laura-
If a 12 year old gets pregnant and it is not because of rape or incest, then there is a problem with parental guidence. Why would such a young girl be left alone with a boy/man who would have this sort of influence over her? Oi.
This is also very scarey that people are so accetping of this considering the CDC’s latest report that 1 out of 4 teenage girls has an STD. Not all STD’s have the potential to be “prevented” by a condom. Differnet strains of HPV come to mind Along with many other STD’s that can cause cancer, infertily and/or death just to name a few. Yep, lets just continue to look the other way doing nothing while 12 and 13 year olds are having sex.
I decided to do a bit of research (Who would have thunk I would do that?)
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_11.pdf
Page 8 shows childbirth by maternal age.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ss/ss5609.pdf
Page 23 shows abortions by maternal age (not all states represented.)
There are 6,781 births to mothers aged 10 – 14 years of age.
There are 3,988 (small numbers from some states not included along with several states not reporting at all.)of mothers under the age of 15.
This means over 10,769 kids under the age of 15 got pregnant in 2004. (2004 used because that is the last year for abortion stats).
Not only are almost half of all reported STD’s from the age group of 15 – 24 according to this study:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/reports/psp/CHAC_meeting/youth.htm
The earlier someone starts to have sex the higher the probability of an STD.
Also, why isn’t adoption mentioned at all? He brings up that if a pre-teen to early teen has a child that teen would not be able to raise the child. Why would the teen be raising the child? Why wouldn’t the teen do what is right for the baby and put the baby up for adoption?
I guess according to Obama the only choices are abortion which would equal good life or keep the baby which would mean being impoverished.
Barak is very popular with the twenty-something voters. Perhaps his lack of a strong moral stance on pre-marital sex is what attracts these young adults to him. They have grown up in promiscuous times. It looks like we are heading for more of the same.
“Hal,
I know you like Obama, but lately every time he opens his mouth, he seems to be lowering the bar on what we should expect from our future president. ”
Janet, it seems to me that some are really stretching to find fault with Obama, and putting every word under a microscope. (and not a fair one always). No one running for president phrases things exactly correct every time, but on balance I don’t see any missteps from Obama.
You say “lowering the bar,” but I see him elevating the discourse and really being honest and open. It’s a refreshing change. McCain (Straight talk express) used to talk like that, and it got him in hot water now and then. I respected it, even when I disagreed.
Valerie: 11:49: Also, why isn’t adoption mentioned at all? He brings up that if a pre-teen to early teen has a child that teen would not be able to raise the child. Why would the teen be raising the child? Why wouldn’t the teen do what is right for the baby and put the baby up for adoption?
Amen! With all the women going through the painful and emotionally heart-wrenching experiences of infertility and expensive fertility treatments which are not guaranteed success, why don’t we create some kind of system where women who have unwanted pregnancies can be matched up directly with a family who desperately wants a baby. No more trying to “create” a baby in the laboratory when one already “exists” in the womb.
TR:
I have to disagree with you.
All children are a gift from God.
You apparently see the solution as terminating any and all such pregnancies by making the assumption that continuing a pregnancy will ruin a girl’s life.
Well, is that really true? Perhaps it would present some unforeseen difficulties (and by the way, this is exactly why a loving God admonsihes us not to have immoral sex) in the short term and it make take years for the girl to recover, however, faith dictates an ultimately successful outcome. There is always a positive opportunity presented in every moral dilemma, if we choose to do the right thing. Offering the murder of a baby in the womb does not present a correct choice. Your solution plays God and results in anhilation and destruction which are irrecoverable. These are themes that are consistent with our pop culture, fast food, easy money, no accountabilty and we see the results of that, obesity, mortgage defaults, and families in crisis. That makes no sense.
There is no escape from the law that we “reap what we sow”.
If we sow seeds of destruction and death we will reap a harvest of destruction and death. If we sow life we will reap life. Won’t necessarily be easy but doing the right thing is not always easy, but the payoff is always better.
I would like any woman reading this blog to explain how having an abortion improved their lives and how not having an abortion ruined their lives.
Hal: 12:03: Janet, it seems to me that some are really stretching to find fault with Obama, and putting every word under a microscope. (and not a fair one always). No one running for president phrases things exactly correct every time, but on balance I don’t see any missteps from Obama.
You say “lowering the bar,” but I see him elevating the discourse and really being honest and open. It’s a refreshing change. McCain (Straight talk express) used to talk like that, and it got him in hot water now and then. I respected it, even when I disagreed.
I don’t know if you have noticed, but I’ve tried to stay away from these political debates, because I don’t feel I know these candidates well enough to comment on them. I would be making these same comments no matter who made them, it just happens to be Barak. When it comes to the life issue, (the number one issue for me) I think both Obama and Hillary are apathetic, to say the least. I don’t think Obama should even be suggesting that his 12 year old might have sex someday – because of his failure to teach them values. Whether people agree with me or not, I think pre-marital sex- is a huge problem that adults today want to sweep under the rug because they feel powerless to address it with their own kids. If Obama feels he might be powerless to influence his daughters on this important issue, how effective are we to expect him to be in the role of president? Que sera sera?
HisMan:
I would like any woman reading this blog to explain how having an abortion improved their lives and how not having an abortion ruined their lives.
I’d like to hear those responses too.
Correction:12:42 post:
I meant to say: I don’t think Obama should even be suggesting that his 12 year old might be having sex – because of his failure to teach them values.
I would like any woman reading this blog to explain how having an abortion improved their lives and how not having an abortion ruined their lives.
Posted by: HisMan at April 14, 2008 12:25 PM
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Youd refuse to believe her if she did. You would tell her she was wrong and try to pretend you know more about her life than she does. And I do not agree that an unwanted pregnancy is any kind of ‘gift’ at all – particularly if the woman was the victim of rape and/or incest. Trying to pretend that is a ‘gift’ is sickening and disgusting.
As Jill stated, in the event that our teen daughters do get pregnant, it’s not just THEIR kids they’re killing..it’s also OUR grandchildren being killed.
Posted by: RSD at April 14, 2008 11:30 AM
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And to heck with what YOUR child has to go through or what is best for YOUR child as long as YOU get YOUR grandchild – talk about self abosroption! anyway it will teach her ‘better’ than to be sexually active, right? Back to the punative attitude towards sex.
HisMan:
I would like any woman reading this blog to explain how having an abortion improved their lives and how not having an abortion ruined their lives.
I’d like to hear those responses too.
Posted by: Janet at April 14, 2008 12:46 PM
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Youd whimper that her life would have been BETTER if she had given birth and you “know” that because you “know” everything about her life and have much better insight into what is best for her than she does herself. It wouldnt matter what she said. You would be certain she was *wrong*.
“IF they get PROPER values and morals from their parents in both WORD and DEED…chances are slim that the kids will end up making the wrong decisions on life…”
EVERYONE makes mistakes. EVERYONE makes a wrong decision once and awhile. Even if it’s slim it still happens.
Yesterday at church, one of the prayer intentions was “for grandparents of aborted grandchildren”. I wasn’t sure I heard it right, but I think it was great. It was definitely a first!
TR 12:57: Youd whimper that her life would have been BETTER if she had given birth and you “know” that because you “know” everything about her life and have much better insight into what is best for her than she does herself. It wouldnt matter what she said. You would be certain she was *wrong*.
Good morning to you too. I don’t whimper, nor do I bite. Would you prefer that I bite? I’m strong in my convictions, but believe it or not, I care about individuals too. Don’t take what I say personally, this is a blog, and we all have a right to our opinion. Perhaps my response to Hisman sounded sarcastic, but it wasn’t meant to be.
Why is wanting a grandchild being self-absorbed? Do you have any?
How’s life in Texas? Are the wildflowers blooming yet? Our daffodils are trying to come out. Hopefully the cold won’t get them!
Re: Janet and HisMan
I’m sure if I had an abortion, the last place I would want to go is here, where all of you would tell her she’s going to hell and a horrible person and a baby-killer and all sorts of nasty things (I’ve seen you do it, so don’t try to pretend that wouldn’t be the case). Why bother explaining your situation when you’re only going to get judged by it?
I would have no reason to believe anyone’s account of their brush with or submission to an abortion.
Also, children are a gift from God, every one. There’s no qualifier provided. Now I want to hear testimonies whose lives are the result of a rape or incest as well. Perhaps that has left you in a life of poverty or despair. However, I know a ton of people who have been redeemed from such hopelessness and living lives of victory as overcomers.
It is difficult to reason with any person who seethes with such hatred expressed in insults, curses and outright contempt.
We’re just the messengers not the messenger. Ultimately any rejection of us is a rejection of God Himself. He commands us to love despite hateful retorts.
And we don’t admonish because we hate we do it because we love. Perhaps wounds are present that are so deep that it automatically causes rejection of any offers of true love and concern. I don’t know, I am only guessing because the reactions make no sense to me.
Someone who refuses to grab the lifeline when they are in danger of drowning would normally be viewed as irrational. I will say this, the lifeline will be there until the decision is made to drown or or get in the boat.
blah blah blah blah blah blah
Mhmm… I’ve heard a few child abusers say they don’t do it because they hate the child, they do it out of love. They really really want their child to be on the right path and it doesn’t matter how cruel they have to get, just so that the child turns out “right”.
Hi Edyt,
Only a few prochoicers have been downright nasty to me about my abortion. Everyone else couldn’t be any sweeter!
Posted by: Janet at April 14, 2008 1:02 PM
Janet, they’ve been including that one in the prayer intentions for awhile now at my church. I was glad to hear it and thought that it might make an impact on all the teens that are there.
Also, and I mean this sincerely, Heaven forbid that Obama’s girls got pregnant and something happened to them during an abortion (i.e. death.) but I wonder if he’d feel differently at least on the point of parental notification. He seems so incredibly non-feeling I think his response would be “Well, I can’t let what happened to my child change the “choice” of others. Parents will just have to deal with the loss.”
Edyt: Re: Janet and HisMan: I’m sure if I had an abortion, the last place I would want to go is here, where all of you would tell her she’s going to hell and a horrible person and a baby-killer and all sorts of nasty things (I’ve seen you do it, so don’t try to pretend that wouldn’t be the case). Why bother explaining your situation when you’re only going to get judged by it?
Good morning. I don’t recall ever telling anyone they are going to Hell (those are STRONG words), for an abortion, or anything, so please don’t suggest that I have.
And although it is tempting, I’ve done it too, please try not to lump us pro-lifers all into ONE group, because we are all individuals. There are as many different pro-lifer types as there are pro-choicers. Thank you.
I try to only speak hypotheticals when I discuss abortion, and rarely address individuals here on the topic unless I “know” them. If someone has had an abortion and wants to come to an open forum like a blog, they should know they are open to any any all types of comments, as you have learned. I would suggest that someone like that stay away if they are not prepared for it.
Also, there is a difference between talking about abortion issues and religious issues, which we do here at times, as you know. Discussing religion can bring up discussions of right, wrong, heaven, hell, etc. which are obviously important in that context.
Carla: Do you regret your abortion? Are you pro-life now because of it?
Mhmm… I’ve heard a few child abusers say they don’t do it because they hate the child, they do it out of love. They really really want their child to be on the right path and it doesn’t matter how cruel they have to get, just so that the child turns out “right”.
Posted by: Edyt at April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
I hope you reported them to the police.
please try not to lump us pro-lifers all into ONE group, because we are all individuals. There are as many different pro-lifer types as there are pro-choicers.
Right on, Janet.
Someday I’d like to visit this fantasyland that antis think they live in, where every single parent has complete control over the lives of their teens and preteens, so that they never have sex and get pregnant, and where teen and preteen girls are never raped or molested. It is certainly not anywhere on this planet…do you all have a spaceship or matter transporter that gets you between here and there?
“If Obama feels he might be powerless to influence his daughters on this important issue, how effective are we to expect him to be in the role of president? Que sera sera?”
He never said he was powerless. He was using his own kids as an example. I’m sure he believes his girls will live up to his expectations. But, life is funny (if you haven’t noticed) and if the unexpected happens, he would like the option of abortion for his daughters. I feel the same way. Having a daughter who gets pregnant before she wants to should not disqualify someone from being president. Using that situation as a hypothetical, certainly shouldn’t.
Thank you Doug!
I see him elevating the discourse and really being honest and open. It’s a refreshing change. McCain (Straight talk express) used to talk like that, and it got him in hot water now and then. I respected it, even when I disagreed.
Exaclty, Hal – I liked McCain for that too.
Ray: Someday I’d like to visit this fantasyland that antis think they live in, where every single parent has complete control over the lives of their teens and preteens, so that they never have sex and get pregnant, and where teen and preteen girls are never raped or molested. It is certainly not anywhere on this planet…do you all have a spaceship or matter transporter that gets you between here and there?
You may have heard that Pope Benedict will be arriving in the U.S. this week. His message is expected to be one of HOPE. He realizes that it is sorely lacking in our country. You don’t have to be Catholic to listen either.
Hope is an important part of the pro-life message. I hope for a world where things are better than they really are. Without hope there is despair. I’d rather live with hope. The “culture of death”, as John Paul II used to call it, prevails.
I look forward to hearing what Pope Benedict says this week in this regard. It will be a message for all American, not just Catholics. He’s saying a mass in Yankee Stadium (next Sunday I think), and also one in Nationals Park in Washington earlier this the week. There will be daily coverage on EWTN TV and EWTN Radio as well as Relevant Radio and other Catholic stations across the country.
“..And to heck with what YOUR child has to go through or what is best for YOUR child as long as YOU get YOUR grandchild – talk about self abosroption! anyway it will teach her ‘better’ than to be sexually active, right? Back to the punative attitude towards sex”
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TR..I don’t know about you but I support the gift of sex (within the context of marriage)…but I guess you were taught otherwise..by PP, perhaps?
Bobby, he did say “if,” and while I think it’s a bad situation, some 12 and 13 year olds are indeed getting pregnant these days.
For some girls at 16 or 17, let alone at 12 or 13, a baby could also indeed be “punishment.” Not for everybody, no, but for some, and thus I say let them keep the choice they now have.
Posted by: Doug at April 14, 2008 10:26 AM
Problem is society expects nothing from the men who have sex with girls as young as 12 or 13. They aren’t expected to marry these girls and be good fathers nor are they prosecuted for statutory rape.
These guys gotta luv it.
These guys gotta luv it.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 14, 2008 2:06 PM
Yeah, they’ll be votin’ for Obama.
Free abortions for all no questions asked.
You rape ’em, We scrape ’em.
“…EVERYONE makes mistakes. EVERYONE makes a wrong decision once and awhile. Even if it’s slim it still happens…”
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Sure, Jess..I agree 100% on that…BUT that doesn’t mean we should lower the bar on what I expect my kids to do or not do. Plus, each decision comes with it a consequence and the responsibility of facing that consequence.
IMO, condoning abortion for teens is a “cop out”, a coward’s way out of said responsibility.
Just because the entire school is having promiscuous sex and is aborting the products of their conception is NOT an excuse…it may be acceptable to pro-aborts but not for us.
“Problem is society expects nothing from the men who have sex with girls as young as 12 or 13. They aren’t expected to marry these girls and be good fathers nor are they prosecuted for statutory rape.”
Someone over 18 has sex with my girls and they will be prosecuted for statutory rape.
Hi Edyt,
I stayed in the prochoice camp because I had an abortion. I wanted to justify my actions. When I miscarried 5 years later and held that baby in my hand I could no longer deny the humanity of the unborn. What I was told at the mill was that it was just a “blob of cells” which obviously was not the truth. I could not reconcile what I had done with the faith I claimed I had and the tension became too great. Nobody blamed me, judged me or said I was going to hell. I was loved enough to see the truth and repent.
I am sorry that you think some of the Prolife people here would say those awful things to someone. I would never condone it!! I can’t imagine me standing outside a mill and screaming BABY KILLER to someone….even though that is what I have done, isn’t it Edyt?
Hal,
What about 17 yr olds or younger?
Anon: If an 18 year old is having sex with my 12 or 13 year old (hypothetical) daughter and knocks her up, he’s the LAST person I want to marry her. That’s a horrible solution.
Just because the entire school is having promiscuous sex and is aborting the products of their conception is NOT an excuse…it may be acceptable to pro-aborts but not for us.
RSD – then don’t have sex. Don’t have an abortion. Don’t force your choices on everyone else.
“..RSD – then don’t have sex. Don’t have an abortion. Don’t force your choices on everyone else…”
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I agree on the first 2…but which “CHOICE” did I make that I’m forcing on somebody else?
Carla, I do not think all pro-lifers are the same, and I don’t condone that sort of behavior or talk either. HisMan wanted to hear someone talk about having an abortion and not regretting it, and I made the point that from some of the comments I’ve seen here, that sort of perception would be ill-received. In other words, the reason they haven’t been hateful toward you is because you have changed your stance on abortion.
Also, I’m sorry for your loss. Do you have any children now?
Hal, way to go!
I know that you would protect your daughters from all harm. I know you love them fully. They are your soft spot Hal.
I think that if you recognized the true dangers out there that you would do everything to protect them as well.
However, you seem convinced that you are aware of all these dangers and, as such, willing to ignore all warnings that there are other dangers.
Rhetorically, where does this latent sense of morality come from? You might say your parents. Well where did they get it from? Why is it wrong for someone to have sex with your underage daughters? What if it was consensual? Are you not forcing your morals on your daughters? You might say it’s illegal but what right does the government have in governing any behavior? Aren’t you limiting your daughters’ choices by telling them they can’t have sex until after they’re 18?
RSD – to not have sex/an abortion.
Someone over 18 has sex with my girls and they will be prosecuted for statutory rape.
Posted by: Hal at April 14, 2008 2:18 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Didn’t Jill say that she got pregnant as an unwed 19-year-old by a boyfriend who was still in High School (under 18?)
Why isn’t anyone here shrieking about teen pregnancy and statutory rape?
Hi Edyt,
Thanks. :)
There are some that have had an abortion on this blog and don’t regret it. What can you do except be kind? Thoughtful? Caring? Compassionate? I don’t know of any other way to discuss anything. I didn’t regret mine at first either.
I had an abortion and 2 miscarriages so that’s 3 in heaven. I have 4 children. 3 boys and 1 girl and they are lunatics. :)
“Are you not forcing your morals on your daughters?”
Hisman, of course I am. I know you don’t disagree, but maybe you thought I would. I agree with you that it is a parent’s job to teach morals to their children. Where do these morals come from? I struggled with that in philosophy courses in college, and didn’t enjoy it much. There are lots of ways to answer that, but I’m no expert.
RSD: If they’re under 17 they can’t be prosecuted perhaps (depending on the age differential) but of course I would still disapprove.
“RSD: If they’re under 17 they can’t be prosecuted perhaps (depending on the age differential) but of course I would still disapprove. ”
——————————
Why, Hal? Why would you disapprove of your teen having sex? Isn’t it their CHOICE (as HIsMan stated)?
Or is it ok for OTHER’s teenage kids to have sex but not yours?
TR..I don’t know about you but I support the gift of sex (within the context of marriage)…but I guess you were taught otherwise..by PP, perhaps?
Posted by: RSD at April 14, 2008 2:05 PM
***********************************
Stupid people make stupid guesses. You proved that one more time. Back to the punative attitude towards sex – if a woman has sex she has to “pay” for it and that payment is gestation and birth. Only married women should be allowed to be sexually active and then only as long as they’d be willing to continue a pregnancy. Typical egocentric control freak delusions of significance.
Good morning to you too. I don’t whimper, nor do I bite. Would you prefer that I bite? I’m strong in my convictions, but believe it or not, I care about individuals too. Don’t take what I say personally, this is a blog, and we all have a right to our opinion. Perhaps my response to Hisman sounded sarcastic, but it wasn’t meant to be.
Why is wanting a grandchild being self-absorbed? Do you have any?
How’s life in Texas? Are the wildflowers blooming yet? Our daffodils are trying to come out. Hopefully the cold won’t get them!
Posted by: Janet at April 14, 2008 1:18 PM
******************
You whine all the time. I couldnt care less if you bite or not. However, I do bite and I bite hard. And yes, thinking your child has some obligation to give you a grandchild while caring nothing at all for what it might do to your child is self absorbed. That kind of argument is all about *you* without any regard for the person pregnant even if that person is your own child. She should have to suffer for the *sin* of being sexually active – its gods judgment etc etc etc. Texas is glorious – bluebonnets are coming into full bloom and so are the Indian Paints and the buttercups – thank crom and mitra for zyrtek.
Janet,
The blue bonnets and primroses are lining the highways. Our local strawberry patch just opened for picking about a week ago, which is actually a month later than the past few years!
We had a teen mother come from 4 states away and live with us off and on for a total of about 2.5 years. After the first 18 months, she decided she couldn’t live with our rules and moved out. She moved back in about a year later with a very changed view and very appreciative of our stance. We helped raise her daughter and consider them family.
Her boyfriend, who had been my husband’s best friend growing up, tried everything to convince her to have an abortion, kicked her out of the house and abandoned her. Her parents are verbally and physically abusive. She hadn’t graduated highschool. She had no money and no skills.
With help, she got her GED, took retail jobs short term, took a few college courses, but due to a disability (epilepsy) was unable to complete them. She most recently has been working in a bakery and has learned a lot and had hwe work featured in a magazine. She has her own car and her own apartment.
EVERY day she says the best thing in her life is her little daughter, the best thng that ever happened to her aside from salvation is her child. She lives for her little girl, is now (she needed some training) a great mom and a “productive member of society” who doesn’t use government aid.
Her daughter is a VERY happy, pleasant little girl who is in advanced math classes, loves the Lord, and a true joy to be around.
Having a baby as a teenage mom is a set back, but not a “ruiner.” Give women a little more credit, they are stronger than you think.
I could have gotten pregnant when I was 17. It had nothing to do with “how” I had been raised. It has nothing to do with my “lack” of morals. It had nothing to do with my parents “failing” in some way. It had to do with being crazy in love with my 18 year old boyfriend and having a major case of teenaged ‘I dont care what anyone else thinks – we’re in love’. One night he came to my house at 2:00 a.m. and climbed through my bedroom window. We thought it was “romantic”. In retrospect it was rock headed stupid but ‘we were in love”. We married 3 months after my 18th birthday and our first child was born 2 weeks after our 8th wedding anniversary and his brother was born about 20 months later, both planned pregnancies.
TR,
I didn’t know you were a Conan fan?
“Why, Hal? Why would you disapprove of your teen having sex? Isn’t it their CHOICE (as HIsMan stated)?
Or is it ok for OTHER’s teenage kids to have sex but not yours?”
Of course it’s their CHOICE. I can approve or disapprove of their choices. I just don’t want to have the government prohibit their choices. Pro-choice does not equal immoral or amoral.
You ask why I would disapprove. My opinion is that a lifetime of happy and healthy sex is more likely if they wait until their at least 18 for actual intercourse. (Maybe because it worked for me) I don’t think it’s the end of the world if a 17 year old has sex with someone her own age, but I’m still old-fashioned enough to wish everyone would wait until their 18.
Hal,
Someone over 18 has sex with my girls and they will be prosecuted for statutory rape.
How would you know? Isn’t that the point of this post? That Obama is making laws that will make it impossible to know what his girls are doing? Haven’t you read our posts about PP covering for those 18 year olds?
You 14 year old daughter could be having sex with a 26 year old man, get pregnant, have an abortion, show up for dinner that night, and you’d NEVER know. Let alone charge “him” with statutory rape.
Get it now?
Hal:
Note that I preceded my questions with the word “rhetorically”. I’m not trying to win an argument. What’s the point in that except to perhaps get a momentary and fleeting ego boost?
I am just trying to get you to think a little outside the box. Like I’ve said before I think you have a good heart, but I also sense that it’s hurting and I don’t need to know why. And then, it may not be hurting. For some reason unknown, God has placed a burden on my heart for you.
I know in the past I have been somewhat critical and judgmental and now realize that goes nowhere especially when my aim is not to hurt or wound you but help you to a life unimaginable.
You had mentioned that you didn’t like philosophy classes. Was it because they made you feel uncomfortable or did you simply find them boring? Was there an overbearing person in your life that you feel was forcing themself on you and your natural inclination was to just close up? You don’t have to answer, however, I know there are always things in our past that keep us from moving to a new level and until we take the time to sit back and examine ourselves do we realize that our current thinking patterns were formed as a result of things that happened to us when we were very young.
That’s why the Bible makes it so clear when it says, “bring up your children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and when they are old they will not depart from it”. God knows how impressionable children are to the good or the bad. God takes a tremendous risk when he lets us have His kids for a season. Paul also says, “forgetting the past I press on”.
It was just yesterday that my daughter and boys were little and I would come home and wrestle with them for hours and torture them with laughter. And then the moments of loving discipline and they would come and say, “daddy, I’m sorry, I love you”. In the twinkling of an eye, that has passed Hal.
You know Hal, I am a little dark Italian. I got ribbed mercilessly when I was a kid. I was the baby of a family of 8 and felt like I had 9 parents. I had to please everyone; my mom, my dad and 7 brothers and sisters. I know what it’s like to try to be someone you’re not. God doesn’t expect that of us. He made us, he knows what He wants us to do and true life is finding that God dream within us. My God dream was to be a great dad leading all my kids to Christ. That has happened. They will now do the same for their kids. The Bible says, “a good man leaves a legacy to his children’s children”.
The rewards we receive in heaven are the countless and unnamable souls that are there simply there because we surrendered to love. “I can only imagine what that will be like” coining a popular song. It’s not about getting kudos from God. Did you see the conclusion of the movie, “The Lord of the Rings” when those kids finally realized, after their torutous quest against evil and their own selfish desires, that it was about “others”.
When I was 13, I was really depressed. We had changed neighborhoods, I lost my friends, new school, etc., it was rough. I had nowhere to go but God. I prayed one night in desparation and the room was literally filled with an unimaginable presence. I knew it was Jesus because of the love I felt from Him. Why did He answer me? Because He loves the sincere requests of his children. He is a good Father and Friend and won’t leave us or let us down. Since them I have strayed countless times doing things I wouldn’t dare admit on this site. However, He is the hound of heaven and wants us more that we can imagine….He didn’t let go. I love Him with all my heart and I want to go out a winner.
He wants you too Hal.
mk, I get it.
I assume my girls would talk to me. If they don’t, then I wouldn’t know. (I did a lot of things my parents didn’t know about.) The laws you’re talking about don’t make it “impossible” to know what girls are doing. Those laws do, I will admit, make it *possible* for the girls to keep this kind of thing from their parents. I support that, although I wish it wasn’t necessary.
Even it notify parents isn’t required, girls are still permitted to talk to their parents if they get pregnant.
Hisman. I had a similar experience when I was 13 (family moved, lost all my friends, new school, the whole bit). I turned to books. Read a lot those years. As for philosophy, it was okay, but seemed to be mostly mental exercises based too much in the theoretical and not the practical. They didn’t make me feel uncomfortable, per se, nor really bored. Just like they were struggling to find some “truth” I didn’t feel needed to be found.
I only brought it up because your question reminded me that I had written a long paper of some sort on the different approaches on the origin of “right and wrong.” I guess, all these years later, I don’t know the answer and don’t really care. I know that most people are usually moral, religion or no religion. And most (probably all) fall short at times, even (especially) falling short of their own expectations.
“I am just trying to get you to think a little outside the box. Like I’ve said before I think you have a good heart, but I also sense that it’s hurting and I don’t need to know why.”
Hisman, I am not hurting. Like all of us, some times are tough. I am happy, at peace with the world, and truly enjoying every day. You think I’ve turned away from God or in some way shut down so I can’t accept his loving grace. However, I haven’t lost my faith, I never for a moment had it. I don’t miss it, and I know I will never be a “believer.” I try to be accepting of those who do believe in God (or anything else), but I know this is one area where I come up short. It’s strange, but I’m sure your belief in God is as strong as my belief (I’d call it “knowing”) that there is no God. When someone sees things so differently, it can provoke some hostile feelings. I think we’ve both been guilty of that.
You and I both lost a sister-in-law the same week last June. It reminded me that despite our major differences in religion and politics, we’re still more alike than different. We both want what’s best for our families, our country, our community.
“a good man leaves a legacy to his children’s children”. I hope we both do that.
Oh my fritz! HisMan and Hal are kind of getting along and are being nice to each other!
A MIRACLE!
Rae,
You saw it first here. Hal, if nothing else, the fact that you and Hisman are “bonding” should be proof that God exists! lol…
@MK: Indeed! That’s enough for me! :-p
Thanks, Hal. I respect that and I will try to be more understanding. I’m not gonna give up on ya though.
Rae:
OK, fritzy, now I’m going to work on you. (Do I even need to?)
Seriously, I take responsibilty for the rift even though my intentions were pure. I should have known better.
Jesus was right when he said, “bless and do not curse”, and I like Paul am a sinner (saved by God’s grace).
No! Don’t work on me too! I’m innocent, I swearz! :)
Don’t listen to her, HisMan! She is teh eeeevilllzzz!!!
*giggles and tackle hugs Rae*
I love my Rae. She’s a good ‘un. :)
Having a baby as a teenage mom is a set back, but not a “ruiner.” Give women a little more credit, they are stronger than you think.
Posted by: Elizabeth G at April 14, 2008 4:16 PM
When did I say having a baby ruins teenagers’ lives?
TR 4:14: You whine all the time. I couldnt care less if you bite or not. However, I do bite and I bite hard. And yes, thinking your child has some obligation to give you a grandchild while caring nothing at all for what it might do to your child is self absorbed. That kind of argument is all about *you* without any regard for the person pregnant even if that person is your own child. She should have to suffer for the *sin* of being sexually active – its gods judgment etc etc etc. Texas is glorious – bluebonnets are coming into full bloom and so are the Indian Paints and the buttercups – thank crom and mitra for zyrtek.
You are one of the meanest people I’ve ever had the occassion not to meet. I didn’t realize I annoyed you so much. Thanks for telling me, because I’ll be ignoring you from now on and I suggest everyone else do the same. Why don’t you go find a nasty pro-abortion site to hang out at where everyone will agree with you. You can make fun all you want and we won’t have to hear you.
Lyssie:
I stand warned. I’m wearing my garlic necklace.
I can’t figure out why my wife won’t come near me though. Maybe because I’m “bonding with Hal”?
Actually, my wife is the most accepting person in the world and would probably love Hal.
My sister Frannnie called me tonite and a thought was triggered. Her husband Phil is my brother-in-law who is more like a brother to me and a thoroughly loving person. I love the guy. He is super smart, got me interested in cars, and I really admire him. Now for the 38 years I’ve known him he has always questioned the existence of God but I never have beat him over the head like I have Hal. Hal, I am really, really sorry, man, my major, major bad. I still am not going to give up on both you guys though.
Doug I firmly disagree with you. I think the only reason it is “sometimes” a punishment is because society is telling us that it is a punishment and that is what makes young women feel that way. How many times have you heard, “if she has a baby her life is ruined!!” or whatever?
Tori, (cool – I have a niece ‘Tori’ – the shortened version of ‘Victoria Faith’),
Then I guess we’ll just disagree. No matter what society says, not all women are suited to be parents nor to continuing pregnancies, and in some cases “punishment” would apply.
In a given case, saying “her life is ruined,” might well apply too, though I’d say it’s exxagerating things. And of course for women/girls in general it’s not true, any more than is saying “it’s a blessing.”
what a terd of a man!
Janet, sorry for the confusion!
I was telling you about the flowers, and then neglected to say I was switching to the audience at large for the rest of my post!
Can I blame lack of sleep from being in my third trimester? Our newest blessing has been keeping me up lately with his or her VERY strong movements. I’ll try to be more careful in the future.
Elizabeth G:
That’s OK! Congratulations on your newest blessing!
TexasRed:
Thanks for sharing with us a little bit of your history. If I understand correctly you are married and have three kids. I am sure no one on this site has anything over on you. I sure don’t.
Please explain your hostility towards pro-lifers though if you don’t mind even if it involves repeating yourself. If I understand you, you don’t believe in God, you were involved in church at some time and you are now pro-choice. Correct me if I am wrong. But I would like to know how you arrived at your current personal value system. Was it based on how you were treated, after a course of study, I’d really like to know.
You may not care, but I’m trying to understand why you are so angry towards us pro-lifers and Christians. And I believe we are somehow hitting your hot buttons. Seems to me it’s when we tie God and behavior together, althoug I may be wrong. It’s not right if we intentionally try to provoke you and being fair to us, the name calling doesn’t help and we are all guilty of that.
I promise I won’t judge you anymore.
Lizzy G:
Wow, that brings back memories. It seemed like yesterday that my 29 year old was practicing field goals inside his mommy.
I was so amazed by that. I used to talk to my kids before they were born and prayed with them and was just amazed at all the movements. I could swear that they recognized my voice.
You are truly blessed.
Now for the 38 years I’ve known him he has always questioned the existence of God but I never have beat him over the head like I have Hal. Hal, I am really, really sorry, man, my major, major bad. I still am not going to give up on both you guys though.
HisMan, I’m actually really touched to hear you say that. You know, on the internet, I don’t care so much whether people know I’m an atheist or not, but in person I have been a little guarded when it comes to talking about matters of faith because I know people can be … well, downright mean to nonbelievers. Like state rep. Monique Davis blasting atheist Rob Sherman. When I hear stuff like that, I feel kinda shoved in a corner and disregarded as though because I believe something else, I suddenly don’t matter.
So I really hope that you (and everyone else, including myself) continue to find common ground so that our debates do not have to turn into hate-fests, rather than constructive discussions. This may sound “liberal” of me, but I think the only way issues like abortion can be resolved is by setting aside our differences and working toward peaceful solutions for the best of everyone.
So thank you for saying that. It’s a small step, but a meaningful one.
I said this in an eralier post:
“I would have no reason to believe anyone’s account of their brush with or submission to an abortion.”
Posted by: HisMan at April 14, 2008 1:23 PM
This was a mistake and should have read:
“I would have no reason NOT to believe anyone’s account of their brush with or submission to an abortion.”
I am sorry for that as it may have caused some confusion.
Well,
I know it won’t last, but this is how I always dream of this board being. People that care about each other, expressing their opinions in a way that causes the other side to listen, not rebel.
You guys are the best, and I’ll consider this a “gift” even if it doesn’t last.
I’m soooo proud.
Mom
Hisman,
I’m loving it! Keep it up. Italian temperaments can be challenge to tame, no?
May Our Lord continue to shower the graces on you.
TRed,
I, too, am curious as to why you unleash upon the Lifers here rather viciously. I’ll respect you no matter what; an exercise in virtue indeed.
This is quite simplistic I’m sure, but I can’t help thinking it. People always argue the conditions of conception, but it all boils down to one single point. The “fetus” (I hate that word), unborn child is just that. A child, a human life. I have yet to see any scientific evidence that it is not. Until then, we have no right justifying the murder of the innocent- regardless of the circumstances.
My daughter is now 7 and I can’t imagine even thinking what Obama has apparently been contemplating. You know, the death of his grandchild/ren should they stand in the way of what society and his bobble headed lemmings consider appropriate for young women.
Now I’m off to cling to my religion and my Taurus 9mm since I’m from bitter ole’ small town America.
:)
(I do both of the above, but not because I’m bitter)
It is chilling that some PC actually do not deny that it is a child! That child then has NO RIGHT to invade a woman’s body and she has every RIGHT to abort because she does not want that child there.
The Prochoice side is changing its tune, now that ultrasounds do indeed show the humanity of the unborn. God help us.
Carla,
A la SoMG.
Exactly.
If I were a developing fetus which was the
result of irresponsible sex on the part of a
poor teenage girl,and had little or no chance of ever getting decent food,shelter,clothing,
education and medical care, I would rather be
aborted.If conservative politicians would put
their money where their mouths are,they would
see to it that all poor pregnant women got
government financial aid to take care of those
unwanted children,and the whole family.
That would certainly reduce abortions.
But nooo-that’s socialism,and we don’t want
socialism in America do we? What a bunch of hypocrites!
Obama is a “sicko” for saying that it would be a mistake for his daughters to have sex at 12 or 13? Huh?
Reality, I agree. I don’t understand how he said anything out of line here.
TRed,
I, too, am curious as to why you unleash upon the Lifers here rather viciously. I’ll respect you no matter what; an exercise in virtue indeed.
Posted by: carder at April 15, 2008 6:47 AM
********************
Nothing viscious about it. If I wanted to be viscious Jill would ban me from the board, after someone fetched her smelling salts and bathed her face with a cool cloth, of course.
Robert:
There’s an old Italian saying that goes like this: “Every baby comes with a loaf of bread”. That means that God provides. My Italian (Sicilian to be exact) parents managed to raise 8 aweseome, God fearing kids, everyone successful with 45 successful grand children, 20 great grand children and 5 great-great grandchildren. My mom and dad are now in heaven swooning over their progeny.
My Dad never took unemployment, never had a vacation, never collected welfare and did whatever he had to do to raise his family. My mom could literally make a feast out of a few potatoes, some salad, and a little pasta and of course the wine he made himself. He DID NOT expect the government to help him with anything, ever.
In one sense you’re right, it’s the politicians’ fault, however, you’re blaming the wrong side.
The Dems are in the majority now and have been for the last 50 out of 60 years. Their policies like legalized abortion, removing God from schools, muzzling churches via 501c3 legislation, the promotion of gay marriage, the Great Society, creating a black dependence on Democrats, etc., etc., etc., are a direct cause of the moral decay in this country.
We are simply reaping a harvest of destruction now for the seeds of destrcution planted years ago by liberals like Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter and one complete reprobate Bill Clinton. One has to be blind or in denial to not be able to see this.
HisMan: those good Italian families had something that today’s parents lack – hope in God’s providence and that he would take care of them.
I agree with Robert that the state should help direct the young unwed moms to carry their children to term. However, based on my experience (through friends) with women of various ages who have had a baby out of wedlock, I believe these children should be placed for adoption.
Obama is creepy and if you American’s vote him in for President, your country deserves what it gets – a president who is completely on the side of the culture of death.
Why Hal doesn’t see anything wrong in what Obama’s said, is because once again he’s looking at things through the filter of his own abortion experience. And since Hal aborted his own flesh and blood, he’d have no qualms about aborting his grandchildren either.
If only things were as simple as you folks
make it sound.It’s not liberals and democrats
who are responsible for all the abortion today and other problems.Conservatives are deluding
themselves if they think that is the case.
If anything,it is the conservative agenda that
is the real threat to freedom and prosperity
in the US.Their anti-choice policies will only
INCREASE abortions and poverty,and the opp-
osition to contraceptives is unbelievably
obtuse.Contraceptives have prevented countless
abortions.Making abortion illegal will only
make a bad situation far,far,worse.
And conservatives,please stop demonizing
and scapegoating gay people.They are not a
threat to society.
If only things were as simple as you folks
make it sound.It’s not liberals and democrats
who are responsible for all the abortion today and other problems.Conservatives are deluding
themselves if they think that is the case.
If anything,it is the conservative agenda that
is the real threat to freedom and prosperity
in the US.Their anti-choice policies will only
INCREASE abortions and poverty,and the opp-
osition to contraceptives is unbelievably
obtuse.Contraceptives have prevented countless
abortions.Making abortion illegal will only
make a bad situation far,far,worse.
And conservatives,please stop demonizing
and scapegoating gay people.They are not a
threat to society.
Hisman: There’s an old Italian saying that goes like this: “Every baby comes with a loaf of bread”.
I love that! I wonder if there is a similar saying in other cultures/languages!
I’m praying for you and your family during this difficult time. God bless you.
Dug your story under political opinion.
Now moving it to the suggestions area of Rev. James David Manning of ATLAH ministries, who can certainly convert this information into his very strong preaching style, (if he hasn’t already).
Obama has clearly vocalized and acted upon the main thrust of Liberal sex ed policies and “health”, which is to make children available for their sexual entertainment.
There is a need for segregation of people based upon ethical divisions, and this is sad. Obama is certainly not a unifying force.
Protecting the private educational institutions is of paramount importance.
Jasper,
HisMan’s quote above @ 2:21 would make a good QuOTD, don’t you think?