Weekend
I will not post new entries this weekend and am putting comments in authentication mode, meaning commenters will have to jump through a hoop to post. Enabling authentication will hopefully discourage drive-bys.
For the weekend, here are a couple thoughtful articles:
“No such thing as a worthless life”
“A note on the future: Deliberately disabling children”
This site is unique in that both pro-lifers and abortion proponents are welcome to exchange thoughts, and they vigorously do, as you’ll see when perusing the site.
I am very appreciative that, thanks to you, the traffic to my site has grown by almost 300% just in the past six weeks. The comments have simultaneously exploded off my cyber page.
I think it is good for both sides to engage in debate, and I therefore have borne many harsh thoughts. But from this time forward, I will enforce healthy debate. No name calling, no insults. Remember, the goal is not to win the argument, particularly by ridicule, but to persuade the other person to your way of thinking. I confess I have forgotten that at times.
Thanks to people on all sides of the life spectrum for not just visiting my site but for thinking enough of my posts to comment on them. One interesting, unexpected phenomenon is that not-like-minded people have begun to form relationships. What a pleasant surprise.
Enjoy your family this weekend, if you can! We will! Speaking of, here’s a little clip taken recently of Grandson #4:
Population Research Institute Weekly Briefing
30 March 2007
Vol. 9, No. 12
A Note on the Future: Deliberately Disabling Children
By Joseph A. D’Agostino
For a number of years now, a great deal of discussion has taken place among scientists and in the popular media about the genetic engineering ofchildren. Will it soon be possible, for prices widely affordable at least to the upper-middle class, to guarantee that children have a high IQ, or excellent athletic ability, or be over 6 feet tall, or have blond hair and blue eyes? Is it right to commodify children in this way, and have parents choosing options as they do with cars? And wouldn’t it be boring to live in a world someday where almost everyone is extremely intelligent and beautiful? Variety, or even the politically correct term “diversity,” is the spice of life.
But not everyone wants what seemed to be the three genetic engineering options: refrain and let nature take her course, attempt to repair genetic diseases but otherwise let well enough alone, or select positive qualities in children. There are parents who are deliberately ensuring that their children are born with disabilities, from deafness to dwarfism. A fourth option-inflicting permanent disabling conditions on children-is now being used.
For some years now, some deaf parents have refused to allow their deaf children to receive cochlear implants that would enable them to hear. The devices must often be implanted when children are very young in order to work, so such parents condemn their children to a lifetime of deafness when they could have been able to hear.
Some dwarf couples are even using in-vitro fertilization to create embryos in the lab, then killing the normal ones and implanting the ones with the dwarfness gene to ensure having a dwarf child.
The standard Marxist-Frankfurt School arguments are used to justify such acts by Deaf Life magazine and other radical organizations representing some disabled people. They argue that deaf folks, dwarfs, and others aren’t disabled at all, just different. Deaf Life types complain of an “oralist” culture that discriminates against deaf people who use sign language. “Oralism” oppresses the deaf, you see, just as racism, sexism, heterosexism, and other isms ad nauseam oppress others.
In a Jan. 21, 2007 story, the Associated Press reported that, of American clinics it surveyed that perform embryo screening, 3% admit to screening in favor of disabilities. This story contains perhaps the most revealing statement on the question. It was uttered by a dwarf woman angered that anyone would dare suggest that deliberating inflicting permanent suffering on children is bad:
“Cara Reynolds of Collingswood, N.J., who considered embryo screening but now plans to adopt a dwarf baby, is outraged by the criticism. ‘You cannot tell me that I cannot have a child who’s going to look like me,’ Reynolds said. ‘It’s just unbelievably presumptuous and they’re playing God.'”
Funny to think that it’s playing God to say it’s wrong to use high-tech techniques to choose certain qualities in children rather than letting nature take her course. Isn’t intervening to choose a major genetic quality in your child much more like playing God?
First abortion, then fetal and embryonic tissue experimentation, and on the anti-child bandwagon goes. Some kill children because they have disabilities, others choose to inflict suffering that only God could possibly have a right to allow. What hate there is in the world.
I will let others comment upon the dark spiritual impulses that must be behind a parent’s decision to do such a thing. But I will ask this: How relativistic can a society become and still be worthy of preserving?
[A very good question that I believe God, Who will not be mocked indefinitely, will soon answer just as He has in the past, per any objective reading of Sacred Scripture. – Gary L. Morella]
Things must change soon. With such degeneration, and such low birthrates in this anti-child age, things must change or we shall perish. I am banking on the former.
Joseph A. D’Agostino is the outgoing Vice President for Communications at PRI.
________
PRI
P.O. Box 1559
Front Royal, Va. 22630
USA
Phone: (540) 622-5240 Fax: (540) 622-2728
Email: colin@pop.org
Media Contact: Colin Mason
(540) 622-5240, ext. 209
Website: www.pop.org
_________
(c) 2007 Population Research Institute. Permission to reprint granted.
Redistribute widely. Credit required.

Weekend
I will not post new entries this weekend and am putting comments in authentication mode, meaning commenters will have to jump through a hoop to post. Enabling authentication will discourage drive-bys, or at least give me the capacity to ban…
Your grandson is soooo adorable! Makes me wish I could hurry up and try again…awwwwwww…
Bethany, God will bless you with a child because your life is a living prayer for that.
Too bad and tragic that sooooooooooooo many of our young people see children as a curse.
Boy, are they missing out.
God Bless.
Hello, all. My name is Kate and I hope to become an active debator here. As a science nerd most of my debates have been about evolution but those often get tiring after having to say the same things over and over!!
Let me quickly introduce myself, in outline format!
-biology/pre-PA major at St. Louis University
–pro-choice, not pro-abortion (the key to lowering abortion numbers is education, in my opinion)
-Grew up in small-town Oklahoma, as a Catholic. Although I go to a Jesuit school right now I am considering myself a spiritual christian, after getting disillusioned by the politics of church in present day America
– I used to be blindly conservative, but sometime during high school I became an active liberal. It was very hard, actually, I was met by a lot of animosity by most of the conservative youth in Oklahoma. At times my mom would just tell me to stop speaking my opinion in class. Haha, I would often reply that there are some statements I don’t feel people should get away with!
-I believe in respectful debate, though be warned, if met with sarcasm, it becomes easy to reply sarcastically
-My favorite band is Simon and Garfunkel!! If you ever get tired of debating with me we can talk about music, movies, or TV, easily. I am also a huge fan of Stephen Colbert, I never miss my power hour, Daily Show + The Colbert Report
-Anything you want to know, just ask! I am an open book.
Welcome Kate (pretty in pink),
Pink is my favorite color also…kitchen is pink, hall is pink, dining room is pink and as of next week my bedroom will be pink too.
Paul Simon is myfavorite musician.
Thank you for starting out so respectfully. Don’t get a lot of that lately.
I’ll be looking forward to debating with you.
I am also Catholic. Pro Life. Love camping, gardening and reading.
You might want to read our past posts because so much has been talked about already.
I too can get sarcastic, but have to be really provoked.
Ditto with the asking me anything…
It’s pretty late, and I was just doin’ my last check for the night. Glad I caught you.
MK
Nice to meet you, MK. It seems we have a lot in common!! Glad to find another Paul Simon fan. Most of the people on campus just can’t appreciate his genius. I have this great 6 foot tall poster from their last tour, that they used to put in the metro stops! I grabbed it on ebay for only about 15 dollars, and it takes up almost an entire wall ;)
I look forward to debates. I have been checking out the previous debates and it seems fun. Although I do have my own opinion of PAS, I admit I don’t know a lot about the Terry Schaivo case in particular and don’t feel I have much to say about the subject, except that it is sad that this conflict had to be so public.
HisMan, thank you so much for the kind words. :)
Kate, welcome!
Lately,
I’ve been giving a lot of thought to hell.
I don’t believe hell is a place where you are burned by fire and tortured by little red men with pitchforks.
If God is ALL good, then it stands to reason that where God is, everything is good. We believe that heaven is a place where everything is good, and nothing is bad.
So conversely, hell would be a place where everything is bad. Now many of you would say that you would prefer hell because there will be no hypocrites or fanatical, uptight, self righteous Christians there. And you have a point.
But let’s think about the absence of good. What does that mean.
Well, picture yourself in a place where no one, absolutely no one, cares about you. If you have a boyfriend here on earth, and he enters hell with you, he will cease to love you, because love is good and good cannot exist without God, and there is no God in hell. So even though you are with your boyfriend, he no longer cares about you. What he cares about is himself. The same way the other zillion souls there only care about themselves. Heck, you will only care about yourself.
To all of those out there that are suffering from depression, this would be the worst depression imaginable, because all of those feelings of loneliness? worthlessness? emptiness?
They would be exaggerated beyond description. And it would be endless. There would be no hope of ever changing it. Eternal depression. Eternal hopelessness. Eternal loneliness. Eternal emptiness.
Everyone around you will lie to you, steal from you, hold you in contempt and basically not care anything about you except to further their own needs. These are the people you are with because these are the people who lived their lives on earth, putting themselves above everyone else.
And the guy that lured you there under the pretext of “freethinking” and complete license?, satan himself, will hate you most of all. He makes you think, that here on earth, you are powerful, and intelligent, and free, but all of this is an illusion that he cast in order to get you to do his dirty work for him. But he doesn’t care about you. He loathes you. In part because he loathes all humans, but especially you because you were so easily duped by his ploys that he lost all respect for you. So much trash to be used and tossed when you ceased to be useful.
Sure, you’ll be able to have all the sex you want. But no love. No proof of this love, because you won’t be able to produce any new life. Life comes from God, and God is nowhere to be found. So you will be barren in the most literal sense of the word.
Many of you are smirking right now. That’s okay. You think I’m wrong. That’s okay too. That is what satan is counting on because that is his greatest illusion. That there is no hell.
Maybe I am wrong. But maybe I’m right.
What kind of God would sentence you to such a place, you ask. What kind of God would punish people in such a cold, cruel fashion? If my God is so all loving, where is His forgiveness? Where is His mercy? Who would want a God like that? A God that could “send” people to a place of everlasting loneliness?
The answer is that NO loving God would send people to this place.
God doesn’t send anyone to hell. He desires everyone to come to Him in heaven. He gives us every opportunity to come to Him. Every opportunity to be forgiven. Every opportunity to
spend eternity in His presence.
He doesn’t send any one to hell.
Here’s the rub:
Whether you spend eternity with Him in Heaven, or without Him in hell, is your “choice”.
mk
Samantha,
In keeping with the above mentioned post, it’s time for a new apparition.
This one happened in Akita, Japan. In 1973, a year after Roe v Wade. The last message was given on Oct. 13th, the anniversary of the message at Fatima. Fatima is one of the most well known apparitions in history. It predicted world war II.
I’ll post more on Fatima soon.
Until then, I give you Akita, Japan.
Enjoy…
Background
In 1973, the Blessed Virgin Mary gave Sister Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa in Akita, Japan three messages through a statute of Mary. Bathed in a brilliant light, the statute became alive and spoke with a voice of indescribable beauty. Her Guardian Angel also appeared and taught her to pray. The wooden statute from which the voice came wept 101 times over a course of several years. It also perspired abundantly and the perspiration sent out a sweet perfume. Its right palm bled from a wound having the form of a cross. Hundreds of people witnessed many of these events. Scientific analysis of blood and tears from the statute provided by Professor Sagisaka of the faculty of Legal Medicine of the University of Akita confirmed that the blood, tears, and perspiration are real human tears, sweat, and blood. They come from three blood groups: O, B, and AB. Sister Agnes also has stigmata on the right palm. A Korean woman with terminal brain cancer received immediate healing while praying before the statute in 1981. The miracle was confirmed by Dr. Tong-Woo-Kim of the St. Paul Hospital in Seoul and Fr. Theisen, President of the Ecclesiastical Tribunal of the Archdiocese of Seoul. The second miracle was the complete cure of total deafness of Sister Agnes.
April, 1984 – Most Rev. John Shojiro Ito, Bishop of Niigata, Japan, after years of extensive investigation, declares the events of Akita, Japan, to be of supernatural origin, and authorises throughout the entire diocese the veneration of the Holy Mother of Akita. He said: “The message of Akita is the message of Fatima.”
June, 1988 – Vatican City – Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, gives definitive judgement on the Akita events and messages as reliable and worthy of belief.
Messages
First message, July 6, 1973
“My daughter, my novice, you have obeyed Me well in abandoning all to follow Me. Is the infirmity of your ears painful? Your deafness will be healed, be sure. Be patient. It is the last trial. Does the wound of your hand cause you to suffer? Pray in reparation for the sins of men. Each person in this community is my irreplaceable daughter. Do you say well the prayer of the Handmaids of the Eucharist? Then, let us pray it together:”
“Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, truly present in the Holy Eucharist, I consecrate my body and soul to be entirely one with Your Heart being sacrificed at every instant on all the altars of the world and giving praise to the Father, pleading for the coming of His Kingdom.”
“Please receive this humble offering of myself. Use me as You will for the glory of the Father and the salvation of souls.”
“Most Holy Mother of God. Never let me be separated from your Divine Son. Please defend and protect me as Your special child. Amen.”
” Pray very much for the Pope, the bishops and the priests.”
Second Message on August 3, 1973
“My daughter, my novice, do you love the Lord? If you love the Lord listen to what I have to say to you.”
“It is very important. You will convey it to your superior.”
“Many men in this world afflict the Lord. I desire souls to console Him to soften the anger of the Heavenly Father. I wish, with my Son, for souls who will repair by their suffering and their poverty for the sinners and ingrates.”
“In order that the world might know His anger, the Heavenly Father is preparing to inflict a great chastisement on all mankind. With my Son, I have intervened so many times to appease the wrath of the Father. I have prevented the coming of calamities by offering Him the sufferings of the Son on the Cross, His Precious Blood, and beloved souls who console Him and form a cohort of victim souls. Prayer, penance and courageous sacrifices can soften the Father’s anger. I desire this also from your community, that it love poverty, that it sanctify itself and pray in reparation for the ingratitude and outrages of so many men. Recite the prayer of the Handmaids of the Eucharist with awareness of its meaning: put it into practice: offer (whatever God may send) in reparation for sins. Let each one endeavour, according to capacity and position, to offer herself entirely to the Lord.”
“Even in a secular institute prayer is necessary. Already souls who wish to pray are on the way to being gathered. Without attaching too much attention to the form, be faithful and fervent in prayer to console the Master.”
Third and the Last message on October 13, 1973:
“. . . if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by my Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and the priests.”
“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.”
“The demon will be especially implacable against the souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will be no longer pardon for them.”
“. . . Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able still to save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in me will be saved.”
ApparitionsPage up
The Work of God – Apparitions of Our Lady
http://www.theworkofgod.org
Samantha,
I don’t know if I mentioned this before, but I need to say it now.
Any apparytion, unless otherwise noted, has been approved by the church. While there are hundreds of “claimed” apparitions, there are actually very few that are approved by the church. The only one that has not been approved that I will eventually talk about is the one in Medjugorge. The only reason it has not been approved is that it is still going on. I have no doubt that it will be approved when the apparitions end.
Just needed throw that out there. Be VERY careful if you decide to pursue these apparitions on your own. Make sure they have been approved. Some have even been condemned as coming from a rather unsavory preternatural source.
MK
Prettyinpink:
I’m not sure why, but you’ve bought into the lie that says pro-choice reduces the number of abortions, perhaps it’s a phase, as you appear to be susceptible to being moved to and fro by every wind of doctrine.
If it’s true that pro-choice is the best way to reduce the number of abortions, how many abortions were performed in the 34 years prior to R v W versus the 50,000,000 after R v W?
Also, what has happened to out country’s morals since R v W. Have divorces, suicides, durg use, immoral sex, high school shooting, use of pornography, etc., etc. increased as well. Do pro-choicer I call them pro-deathers) see a link between these issues?
Maybe we should make running red lights a choice or make it a choice for pet food manufacturers to make rat poison a part of pet food. Do you think that will reduce the number of accidents at intersections or reduce the number of pet deaths? I find your logic twisted and simply incomprehensible, but typical. You should hang with a different crowd as bad company corrupts good morals.
S & G, good tunes, but offered no solutions except a hopeless world. Anyone can do that.
MK, you’re right about hell. God’s love is unconditonal but his promises are conditional. We come to Him on His terms, not our ours, otherwise we would be gods. No we are simply the created responding or rejecting a loving God’s pleas for relationship. If we reject that plea, He gives us what we want which is separation from Him which is hell. In the spiritual realm, hell is a place described in unimagineable anguish, a soul existing forever without the One it was created to hunger for and be fulfilled by, an eternally and infinite Loving Father.
Happy Palm Sunday. I love this time of year.
His Man,
I actually came to the decision myself, as most of my friends at the time were extremely pro-life. Please dont’ assume I don’t think for myself. That’s just as valid as if I assumed that you don’t think for yourself. I have thought through the position quite thoroughly.
“If it’s true that pro-choice is the best way to reduce the number of abortions, how many abortions were performed in the 34 years prior to R v W versus the 50,000,000 after R v W?”
It is hard to say, considering that as long as something remains illegal, reporting the occurance of said action can become very difficult. Also, sexual mores having changed, it’s difficult to compare (should we measure it as a function of percentage of the total unwed/unwanted pregnancies or as a matter of numbers?). As I’ve said before, I believe that education is the only way to reduce the number of abortions. Being educated on the consequences, procedures, amount of other options, and the number of preventive measures (and their proper use) will not only decrease the amount of unwanted pregnancies, but also hopefully increase the amount of people who choose alternate paths besides abortion.
“Also, what has happened to out country’s morals since R v W. Have divorces, suicides, durg use, immoral sex, high school shooting, use of pornography, etc., etc. increased as well. Do pro-choicer I call them pro-deathers) see a link between these issues?”
I would not say that any of those have a causal link to abortion. In statistics we learn that there is a big difference between causation and correlation. If there is a correlation then all factors must be considered.
“Maybe we should make running red lights a choice or make it a choice for pet food manufacturers to make rat poison a part of pet food.”
Running red lights threatens the lives of other people driving on the road. My brother was almost killed when someone (a friend actually) ran a red light and slammed into his side of the car at 40 mph. If rat poison was a part of pet food it would be completely against the point of pet food, which is to nourish our pets. Therefore, none of these comparisons are valid. I would much rather keep abortions legal for the time being while we work on decreasing the amount of unwanted pregancies and making the other options more available than to ban abortion only to find people killing themselves and abandoning their children. It’s a very complicated issue. Don’t try to simplify it, His Man.
“I find your logic twisted and simply incomprehensible, but typical.”
I can say the same for your own logic.
“You should hang with a different crowd as bad company corrupts good morals.”
Thank you for telling me all about my friends. You could make the assumption that I hang out with only pro-choicers but in fact you are quite wrong. I ask you not to make assumptions about my personal life ever again.
“S & G, good tunes, but offered no solutions except a hopeless world. Anyone can do that.”
I never thought it was the role of music to offer solutions to problems in today’s world.
Prettyinpink:
Obviously not thoroughly enough since you are wrong. Methinks youthinks are wise?
Abortion is murder. People who commit abortion and choose to have an aborion are murderers as well as people that support that choice. You simply cannot have it both ways. Your statement implies that you don’t think abortion is murder. If you don’t think it is murder then why do you find it necessary to say you are not pro-abortion? Can’t your conscience handle it, hence, the need for self-deception?
To say that you are pro-choice and not pro-abortion is doublespeak. That’s like saying that you are against red light running but there should be no laws against running red lights. That’s idiotic and you would say the same about a person who would argue that. I know, it’s a yellow light not a baby.
You think you came to the decision about being pro-choice yourself, however, it’s very hard for me to beleive that you weren’t listening to some very self-deceived people and therefore, became as they are. Or, should I assume that you represent that psuedo, pro-death, intellengensia that began this whole charade of abortion with Margaret Sanger in the early part of the 20th century? Would you have me think grasshoppa that you then came back to life as prettyinpink or will you just take full responsibility to your god for this whole mess? C’mon, you’ve been listening to somebody at St. Louie U., perhaps a misguided ethics professor. A young mind is a terrible thing to corrupt.
Let’s get real. You know Simon and Garfunkle was controversial. I mean I lived that era of Vietnam, free sex, pot, make love not war, hippiedom, era, etc., what a crock. Most of my pothead friends are dead. So to like their music is to like their message or tell me that you just listen to the instrumentals? One of the first things I’m gonna try to get you to do is not to lie to yourself and others clothed in self-satisfied, self-absorbed, false wisdom. Then and only them will you learn something.
Found a chink in you armor…………..”Running red lights threatens the lives of other people driving on the road.” Abortion is the murder of unborn children and very simply, that’s wrong and NOT justifiable, ever, for any reason. Therefore, there should be laws against abortion…and there will be again.
You worship the god of education as the solution to abortion when it’s the very people that promote abortion on demand are the same ones that have a vested interest in this death industry. Their world is based on control and not faith. Let’s learn how to control peeple and things as to our view of the world and all will be OK is their mission statement. Grant money and lies. No, prettyinpink, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom not the collection of facts.
I guess you’re right about the link between abortion and the decline of morals. Rather, abortion is just another symptom of the absolute moral abyss hellhole we have decended into and not the cause. So, the real question is why have we descended into this moral abyss pit of crap? Certainly not due to a lack of education. We spend more money on eduation and have more institutions of learning now then eveer before in history. Guess that effect does not have a cause. You sound like a Clintonite.
And please, if you are as intelligent as you pretend to be, you know that the whole 60’s fiasco was borne on the wings of the music of lies perpetrated by the likes of S & G.
So, the first thing you need to learn prettyinpink, is to take off the mask, stop lying to yourself, admit what a wrong turn you have taken away from God and repent. Sounds too like a little buit of pride has entered into the picture as well. Pride is a heinous sin grasshoppa. Besides a BS, or PA, or MD or PhD doesn’t matter a hill of beans to the K of K (King of Kings).
PAS,P.E., M.Th. (doctoral candidate)
“Obviously not thoroughly enough since you are wrong. Methinks youthinks are wise?”
I never made assumptions about “wiseness” at all, but you made assumptions about mine. Just because I haven’t graduated or I’m not old doesn’t mean I’m stupid, sir.
“Abortion is murder. People who commit abortion and choose to have an aborion are murderers as well as people that support that choice. You simply cannot have it both ways. Your statement implies that you don’t think abortion is murder. If you don’t think it is murder then why do you find it necessary to say you are not pro-abortion? Can’t your conscience handle it, hence, the need for self-deception?”
On a personal level, I find abortion to be distressing. If I ever found myself pregnant I don’t believe I would do it. If someone came to me for advice, I would never encourage them to go through with it. Therefore, I am not pro-abortion, and I don’t believe this makes me a “murderer,” either. Although I believe abortion is a very complicated subject. Everyone agrees that once a baby is born, it is a person. However not everyone agrees that a fetus is a “person,” especially in the first trimester, when none of its organs are fully developed. Yet, after viability abortion is not performed unless it poses a serious danger to the mother. There are lots of implications in this. It’s interesting to note that religion is a very strong guiding factor in the pro-life and pro-choice movements. Furthermore, I can’t fully comprehend what a mother must be feeling if she finds out she is pregnant but knows she cannot support her child so I don’t feel like I can force her to do something or another (I would personally feel self-righteous doing so–the only thing I think I can do is cousel). I dont’ feel abortion is a cut and dry, black and white issue. I would not say that I am deceiving myself, only weighing every possible factor before making a decision on how I feel about it. Notice that how I feel about something and how I think it should apply to government are sometimes different.
“To say that you are pro-choice and not pro-abortion is doublespeak. That’s like saying that you are against red light running but there should be no laws against running red lights. That’s idiotic and you would say the same about a person who would argue that. I know, it’s a yellow light not a baby.”
It’s only doublespeak to someone who doesn’t understand my position. I feel it is equally idiotic to fail to see a difference between a 13-year old aborting a 3 week old fetus and an idiot killing my godsister in a drunk driving accident.
“You think you came to the decision about being pro-choice yourself, however, it’s very hard for me to beleive that you weren’t listening to some very self-deceived people and therefore, became as they are.”
I’ve listened to people on both sides, weighed their arguments, looked at the facts, and came to my own conclusions. I don’t blindly follow what people tell me to think or do. Sir.
“Or, should I assume that you represent that psuedo, pro-death, intellengensia that began this whole charade of abortion with Margaret Sanger in the early part of the 20th century? Would you have me think grasshoppa that you then came back to life as prettyinpink or will you just take full responsibility to your god for this whole mess?”
Um…what? Are you angry about something? Why are you calling me names?
“C’mon, you’ve been listening to somebody at St. Louie U., perhaps a misguided ethics professor. A young mind is a terrible thing to corrupt.”
I think I’ve told you to stop making assumptions about me. I became pro-choice in high school. And don’t you know that SLU is a Catholic school? Do you not think that there isn’t a huge pro-life group on campus, or that the university does not promote a pro-life agenda? Surely you are mistaken.
“Let’s get real. You know Simon and Garfunkle was controversial. I mean I lived that era of Vietnam, free sex, pot, make love not war, hippiedom, era, etc., what a crock.”
I know about their history. I am not stupid. However I refuse to believe it was their job to solve the Vietnam war and I don’t feel its right to blame them for the actions of others.
“Most of my pothead friends are dead”
I dont see how this is relevant to the discussion.
“So to like their music is to like their message or tell me that you just listen to the instrumentals? ”
I admire Paul Simon’s poetic words, the instrumentation, and Garfunkel’s angelic voice. Their music does not promote a “pro-pot” agenda at all, just a pro-human one.
“One of the first things I’m gonna try to get you to do is not to lie to yourself and others clothed in self-satisfied, self-absorbed, false wisdom. Then and only them will you learn something.”
I am not pretending I know anything. I only stated my opinion. You seem to feel threatened by it. Just because I have a different opinion than yours does not make me self-satisfied or self-absorbed.
“Found a chink in you armor.”
Please tell me all about it, wise man.
” Abortion is the murder of unborn children and very simply, that’s wrong and NOT justifiable, ever, for any reason.”
Why don’t you give a reason for this opinion rather than spouting it angrily as if it were fact.
“Therefore, there should be laws against abortion…and there will be again.”
Well, because I’m not as wise as anyone here I obviously don’t deserve an opinion on the subject.
“You worship the god of education as the solution to abortion when it’s the very people that promote abortion on demand are the same ones that have a vested interest in this death industry.”
Thanks for telling me who I am without meeting me, again. I did not come here to fend off personal insults so I don’t want to tell you again.
“Their world is based on control and not faith.”
My faith has nothing to do with it, then? It’s all about control?! What kind of bullshit is that? (MK this is what I told you about when I feel I am being provoked)
“No, prettyinpink, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom not the collection of facts.”
I happen to believe that we should all use both reason and revelation to come to conclusions. Revelation without reason breeds extremism and hate. Although we could all use a little bit of Calvin’s self-denial sometimes too…
“I guess you’re right about the link between abortion and the decline of morals. Rather, abortion is just another symptom of the absolute moral abyss hellhole we have decended into and not the cause.”
That’s your opinion, and I respect that.
“We spend more money on eduation and have more institutions of learning now then eveer before in history. Guess that effect does not have a cause. You sound like a Clintonite.”
Now you are just saying things. Are you honestly trying to have a reasonable debate? Or just ignorantly say things to make me angry? It’s starting to work. This is not why I came here.
“And please, if you are as intelligent as you pretend to be, you know that the whole 60’s fiasco was borne on the wings of the music of lies perpetrated by the likes of S & G.”
Lies? So you think that materialism and wars are a good thing? As far as I know Simon and Garfunkel has never sung about anything that wasn’t obvious. I don’t feel like my love of folk music and old rock is anything to make you angry about. Quit complaining and start carrying on a reasonable discussion. Simon and Garfunkel is usually the subject me and my adult friends bond on. Honestly, what is your problem?
“So, the first thing you need to learn prettyinpink, is to take off the mask, stop lying to yourself, admit what a wrong turn you have taken away from God and repent”
Oh, right. I’ll do that right now. Thanks!!
“Sounds too like a little buit of pride has entered into the picture as well. Pride is a heinous sin grasshoppa. Besides a BS, or PA, or MD or PhD doesn’t matter a hill of beans to the K of K (King of Kings).
PAS,P.E., M.Th. (doctoral candidate)”
Wow. So, I never believed I came off as prideful before, only telling my opinion. (Anyone, if I did, I apologize). After asking you to refrain from personal attacks (and please stop calling me names), I can only look at your last statement and see pride beaming through. If you are going to continue this I will stop talking to you and choose to debate with more respectful opponents.
Mk,
“Pink is my favorite color also…kitchen is pink, hall is pink, dining room is pink and as of next week my bedroom will be pink too.”
That is sooo much pink! My goodness!
Pretty in Pink,
Let’s just take one argument at a time.
Back in March I posted this. It is written by a man named Bernard Nathanson. He was one of the founders of NARAL. He talks about how they made up the numbers for abortions performed prior to RvW. He also says a lot of other interesting things. He aborted his own child before realizing what a mistake he was making. His is now Pro-life, Catholic (converted from Judaism) and is doing everything he can to get the “truth” out about the lies he and NARAL perpetuated.
In his own words:
“I am personally responsible for 75,000 abortions. This legitimises my credentials
to speak to you with some authority on the issue. I was one of the founders of the
National Association for the Repeal of the Abortion Laws (NARAL) in the U.S. in 1968.
A truthful poll of opinion then would have found that most Americans were against
permissive abortion. Yet within five years we had convinced the U.S. Supreme Court
to issue the decision which legalised abortion throughout America in 1973 and produced
virtual abortion on demand up to birth. How did we do this? It is important to understand
the tactics involved because these tactics have been used throughout the western world
with one permutation or another, in order to change abortion law.
“We persuaded the media that the cause of permissive abortion was a liberal enlightened,
sophisticated one. Knowing that if a true poll were taken, we would be soundly defeated,
we simply fabricated the results of fictional polls. We announced to the media that we
had taken polls and that 60% of Americans were in favour of permissive abortion. This is
the tactic of the self-fulfilling lie. Few people care to be in the minority. We aroused
enough sympathy to sell our program of permissive abortion by fabricating the number of
illegal abortions done annually in the U.S. The actual figure was approaching 100,000 but
the figure we gave to the media repeatedly was 1,000,000. Repeating the big lie often
enough convinces the public. The number of women dying from illegal abortions was around
200-250 annually. The figure we constantly fed to the media was 10,000. These false
figures took root in the consciousness of Americans convincing many that we needed to
crack the abortion law. Another myth we fed to the public through the media was that
legalising abortion would only mean that the abortions taking place illegally would then
be done legally. In fact, of course, abortion is now being used as a primary method of
birth control in the U.S. and the annual number of abortions has increased by 1500% since
legalisation.
“We systematically vilified the Catholic Church and its “socially backward ideas” and
picked on the Catholic hierarchy as the villain in opposing abortion. This theme was
played endlessly. We fed the media such lies as “we all know that opposition to abortion
comes from the hierarchy and not from most Catholics” and “Polls prove time and again
that most Catholics want abortion law reform”. And the media drum-fired all this into the
American people, persuading them that anyone opposing permissive abortion must be under
the influence of the Catholic hierarchy and that Catholics in favour of abortion are
enlightened and forward-looking. An inference of this tactic was that there were no non-
Catholic groups opposing abortion. The fact that other Christian as well as non-Christian
religions were {and still are) monolithically opposed to abortion was constantly
suppressed, along with pro-life atheists’ opinions.”
I am often asked what made me change my mind. How did I change from prominent abortionist
to pro-life advocate? In 1973, I became director of obstetrics of a large hospital in New
York City and had to set up a prenatal research unit, just at the start of a great new
technology which we now use every day to study the foetus in the womb. A favourite pro-
abortion tactic is to insist that the definition of when life begins is impossible; that
the question is a theological or moral or philosophical one, anything but a scientific
one. Foetology makes it undeniably evident that life begins at conception and requires
all the protection and safeguards that any of us enjoy. Why, you may well ask, do some
American doctors who are privy to the findings of foetology, discredit themselves by
carrying out abortions? Simple arithmetic at $300 a time, 1.55 million abortions means an
industry generating $500,000,000 annually, of which most goes into the pocket of the
physician doing the abortion. It is clear that permissive abortion is purposeful
destruction of what is undeniably human life. It is an impermissible act of deadly
violence. One must concede that unplanned pregnancy is a wrenchingly difficult dilemma,
but to look for its solution in a deliberate act of destruction is to trash the vast
resourcefulness of human ingenuity, and to surrender the public weal to the classic
utilitarian answer to social problems.”
“AS A SCIENTIST I KNOW, NOT BELIEVE, KNOW THAT HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION”
Although I am not a formal religionist, I believe with all my heart that there is a
divinity of existence which commands us to declare a final and irreversible halt to this
infinitely sad and shameful crime against humanity.”
[Dr. Nathanson has since converted to Catholicism, being baptised in 1996.]
The “pro-choice movement’s” emotionally compelling slogans — fierce rallying cries of the most successful political marketing campaign in modern history, which made abortion-on-demand legal in the U.S. — have been powerful rhetorical weapons for fighting off efforts to reverse Roe v. Wade, coming up on its 30th anniversary next month.
“I remember laughing when we made those slogans up,” recalls Bernard Nathanson, M.D., co-founder of pro-abortion group NARAL, reminiscing about the early days of the pro-abortion movement in the late ’60s and early ’70s.
“We were looking for some sexy, catchy slogans to capture public opinion. They were very cynical slogans then, just as all of these slogans today are very, very cynical.
We sat down and plotted out the organization now known as NARAL. With Betty Friedan, we set up this organization and began working on the strategy.”
We persuaded the media that the cause of permissive abortion was a liberal, enlightened, sophisticated one,” recalls the movement’s co-founder.
MK
Pretty in Pink,
This is a very important admission by Dr. Nathanson.
If they could lie about this, what else could they lie about?
How about this?
” A leading figure in the pro-abortion movement has publicly admitted that he lied when he said that partial-birth abortions are extremely rare and are performed only to save a woman’s life or prevent damage to her reproductive organs when her baby is severely deformed.
Partial-birth abortion is also called “Intact Dilation and Evacuation” or “Dilation and Extraction” by supporters, and “Brain Suction Abortion” by opponents.
Ron Fitzsimmons, the executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, now admits that in fact the procedure is performed routinely on healthy women with healthy babies.
Fitzsimmons says that he lied because he felt it was necessary to protect the cause of “abortion rights”. After an appearance on ABC’s “Nightline” in which, he says, “I lied through my teeth”, he began to grow increasingly uneasy. “It made me physically ill,” he said, “I told my wife the next day, ‘I can’t do this again.'”
While he still defends abortion, he now believes that the debate should be based on truth.”
A leading figure in the pro-abortion movement has publicly admitted that he lied when he said that partial-birth abortions are extremely rare and are performed only to save a woman’s life or prevent damage to her reproductive organs when her baby is severely deformed.
Partial-birth abortion is also called “Intact Dilation and Evacuation” or “Dilation and Extraction” by supporters, and “Brain Suction Abortion” by opponents.
Ron Fitzsimmons, the executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, now admits that in fact the procedure is performed routinely on healthy women with healthy babies.
Fitzsimmons says that he lied because he felt it was necessary to protect the cause of “abortion rights”. After an appearance on ABC’s “Nightline” in which, he says, “I lied through my teeth”, he began to grow increasingly uneasy. “It made me physically ill,” he said, “I told my wife the next day, ‘I can’t do this again.'”
While he still defends abortion he now believes that the debate should be based on truth.
1997 by Jay Johansen
http://www.pregnancycenters.org
click on “abortion”, then click on “Pro abort leader admits he lied”
Apologies to everyone who has read this before.
We feel that yet one more lie that is promoted by the planned parenthood mentality is that education and contraception will cure all the worlds ills and end abortion. Nonsense. Half of contraceptive methods are abortive and none of them except condoms (and their rate of protection is not all that impressive) protect against STD’s.
Our stance is that the only thing that completely ensures two people will not effect a pregnancy is if said people do not have sex. The only thing that stops STD’s is to stop having sex. Monogamy, marriage, heterosexual sex (within marriage), abstinence…these are the things that will produce the results the pro-choice movement so desperately wants to achieve by means that are not only unproductive, but harmful.
Bottom line for us is, if your not responsible enough to live with the consequences of your actions (pregnancy) that do perform the actions (sex).
MK
MK
Everyone,
After much thought I have decided that I am no longer going to take part in this blog. It was fun and I will miss you all. Take care.
MK
APRIL FOOL!
ahhhh, that was fun.
MK
P in P,
However not everyone agrees that a fetus is a “person,” especially in the first trimester, when none of its organs are fully developed.
# Day 1 – conception takes place.
# 7 days – tiny human implants in mother
I would love to continue this discussion, but I have an organic chemistry test tomorrow. It promises to be quite difficult so if it’s possible I’d like to address these concerns in the next couple days. Wish me luck!! And have a good night everyone.
P.S. I’m listening to American Tune right now..so beautiful.
MK – In another post I said that I loved ya…but because of the April fools day joke, I will now take that back.
You’re waiting for the April Fools now to come from me right? nope! not gonna happen. You scared me!
Pretty in Pink –
I really hope we haven’t scared you away. It has been one of those weekends.
Something you said caught my eye, and I didn’t have time to read everything that was posted so forgive me if this has been said already. Abortion was not illegal before Rowe v Wade. It was up to the states and many states had it legal. What Rowe v Wade did was make abortion federally legal (which means states no longer have a choice) and then Doe V Bolton, which the supreme court ruled its finding on the same day, made abortion legal for any reason.
Please go here for Roe (Norma McCorvey) and Doe’s (Sandra Cano) testimony on June 23 2005 before the judiciary committee.
http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimony.cfm?id=1553&wit_id=4394
http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimony.cfm?id=1553&wit_id=4393
Also, you can go to the American Medical Association website and find out that they cannot think of any reason why partial birth abortion would be used to save the life of the mother.
As for education being the key to reducing abortions, I posted this about 1 1/2 weeks ago I thought maybe you would like to read it:
In the late 1800’s Sarah F. Norton wrote in the Woodhull & Claflin’s Weekly newspaper that a way to end abortion was when
Prettyinpink:
You are a poster child for moral relativism and the effects thereof. You are impressing no one.
Be hot or cold and not lukewarm. I hope you do well on your test tomorrow, and I don’t mean to be so hard on you. However, kids need a spankin’ some time to wake ’em up. PS, good parents spank their kids.
Excellent post Valerie! I love facts and truth and not twisted logic based on propaganda.
MK, I read your statement that you were leaving and I was genuinely saddened. Boy did you get me! Your faith and intellect are pheeeeeeenomenal and I have the utmost respect for you. You are without equal on this blog as your perspective is from both sides, mixed with humility, knowledge, wisdom and personal experience. God needs you desparately to counter all the twisted thinking about abortion on this site and to balance my harshness.
Thanks for not leaving. And, I owe you one!
Our goal should be that not one, not one, not one, more baby is ever lost to abortion ever again.
Valerie and HisMan,
After I “punked” everyone, I thought,”Well gee Mar, that was a little arrogant. I mean, you’re taking a lot for granted thinking that anyone would care if you left…”
Sorry I scared ya…gonna have to watch my back now. Waitin’ for you guys to get me back!
Thanks for the kind words…what a beautiful way to start the morning.
By the way, all those nice things you said about me?
Right back at ya. If either one of you guys left I’d hunt you down like mad dogs and drag you back kickin’ and screaming.
It’s Holy Week. Let’s make it count.
Love,
MK
MK, I was just catching up on yesterday’s posts by reading them backward to read them in context, and I had a mini-heart attack when I read you were leaving! Well, now I’m certainly wide awake! :)
Luckily, I saw the April Fools before I saw the other post. That was funny, MK. :)
Good morning ,Jill! :)
Good morning, Bethany! And re: your first post, me neither!
MK,Please don’t leave!
MK OMG I cant believe you actually used “punked” as a verb! You rock my face off! And Happy Holy Week…if you can be happy during Holy Week. :-(
Hisman, you can believe that “abortion is murder” tripe all you want, but don’t you start insulting pot heads. There is more enjoyment from a nice evening with some marijuana and S & G music than you’ll ever find in that bible of yours.
aww gary you just made my day :)
Pretty,
it’s important to step back now and then and remember the regulars on this site are “well meaning” but seriously deluded. In “real life” I don’t know anyone who thinks like they do. I try to
G
sorry, hit “post” too soon.
I try to be understanding of their positions, but it’s like they’re talking greek.
The women I know who had abortions are happy and well adjusted (most are mothers now). The people they know are in agony. The people I know who smoke pot are some of the most successful people in town, including teachers, lawyers, (one judge) and doctors. They people they know are “mostly dead.”
I know only one person who goes to church. I never told my kids there was a god. God never spoke to them to correct me. They are the most moral (real moral) kindest young adults you could ask for.
We live in different worlds I guess. It’s depressing at times.
Gary,maybe if you quit smokin the dope you could clear your mind and begin to understand.My friend is a pot-head.What can I say? He’s fried!!
Mom, my mind is free and clear. I work all day, full time, and have many employees. I am “fried” as you call it, once or twice per month, in the privacy of my home, without hurting anyone. If I was going to cut back on anything it would be red wine, which I enjoy a glass or two of several times per week.
So, while I acknowledge you can over-use any substance, including marijuana, the people I know are not “pot heads.” They are like me (and some maybe like you) they’re Americans. Young and old, rich and poor, liberal and conservative. (liberatarian type of conservative, not the “social” type).