Fetus child fetus child
MSNBC reported May 13 on surgery conducted in 2006 on a preborn baby 5 months old who was discovered to have a killer tumor growing in his chest.
This story was similar to that of Baby Samuel, which we discussed at length as it related to a recent House episode here, here, here, and here.
From the MSNBC story:
Dr. Darrell Cass: It’s high-stakes surgery. It’s the only thing we do where you have to go through a normal patient to get to a fetus – another patient that’s dying.
My first question is: I wonder how pro-aborts can explain that the fetus was a “patient”?
Continuing….
A half hour into the procedure, the uterus was safely opened, and Dr. Cass saw Garrett for the first time.
Dr. Darrell Cass: It’s always a fairly dramatic moment to see this very, very young fetus, this developing human that’s dying.
Garrett’s tiny chest had to be opened to remove the tumor. To expose the chest, Dr. Olutoye had to raise Garrett’s left arm out of his mother’s womb. Right in the operating room, the doctor found himself actually holding the hand of this 5 month old fetus, which weighed less than two pounds.
Dr. Oluyinka Olutoye: Well, consider the size of my hand – being able to hold that tiny hand was actually quite dramatic.
Garrett now straddled two worlds. Part of him was delivered, and part of him still inside his mother’s womb. The doctors then opened his chest and found the tumor that was rapidly killing him.
Bottom line: Surgeons saved Garrett. You can access the video of Garrett’s surgery and one year birthday party here.
One annoyance from the video: The doctor seemed to overly concentrate on using the word “fetus” to the point of sounding absurd.
Not saying he is one, but pro-aborts insist on using “fetus” to describe preborn babies. On this site they also like “fetii,” which I assume is plural for fetus, although I can only find “fetuses” in my medical and collegiate dictionaries. But I digress. I’m sure they’ll correct me.
So my second question is: When Garrett emerged from the uterus for a time, he defied the definition of “fetus.” So to be consistent, would pro-aborts consider him by one of the proper scientific definitions while out of the uterus: “neonate,” “baby,” “child,” or “infant”?
[Hat tip: Christina, #2 Son; photos courtesy of MSNBC]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“One annoyance from the video: The doctor seemed to overly concentrate on using the word “fetus” to the point of sounding absurd”
Jill, I saw this on MSNBC as well, yes, the doctor kept on refering to the baby as a fetus. ( see how polical correctness has infected the culture)
Perhaps you could explain first what a
That’s actually kind of cool…I think neonatal surgery is pretty fascinating stuff, I do imagine it’s pretty difficult operating on something so small.
I have a distant cousin who was born with his internal organs on the outside of his body and the doctors told his parents that he was probably going to die during the surgery he needed to put his organs into his body. Needless to say, he survived the surgery (the only evidence of said surgery was the lack of a belly-button from what I could see). I just wonder if this sort of thing could some day be corrected in utero?
Jill,
The only difference between this procedure to save the baby and an abortion was the parent’s decision.
The procedure didn’t change the fact that it was already a human being, that it had a destiny and a life to be lived, a statement of God’s intent.
No one ever tell me that killing a baby in the womb is not terminating a human being and is not murder. This post proves it.
With God as my witness I call for the immediate repeal of Roe v. Wade. I appeal to all who are pro-life to rise up in outrage against abortion and for this curse on our land to be immediately terminated. The church bears the responsibility for abortion continuing in our land. Now is the time to speak out, now is the time for action, NOW!
Abortion is an affront to the creative nature of God, it negates God as Creator.
Abortion denies the power of God to right a wrong, to show forth His glory, it negates God as redeemer.
Abortion makes that which is good, the birth of human life, into that which is evil, the death of human life, and then calls it good, the very definition of blasphemy.
Abortion negates the resurrection power of God as it takes flesh that is alive in it’s earthly abode (the womb) and kills it, while God takes that flesh which is dead in it’s earthly abode (the grave) and desires to make it alive.
Abortion’s desire is to take that which was composed from the chaotic array of elemental molecules into a symphony of life infused with an eternal soul, and turn it back to the entropy of randomness, chaos, nothingness, uselessness, decay, death.
Abortion is against all that is hopeful, all that requires faith for success; for it’s solution; annihilation, it’s goal; death, it’s dream; breaking God’s heart, it’s vision, satan’s ultimate power.
Abortion is a counterfeit, for the clawprints of satan are everywhere to be found in its performance.
Abortion disguises hate as love, bondage as freedom, choice as maturity, sin as righteousness, political correctness as wisdom.
Abortion pits men against women, mothers against their children, fathers against God.
Yes, Abortion is satan’s feeble attempt at killing God himself, for Abortion is a metaphor for satan; it is his coat of arms, his family crest, his logo, his brand, it belongs to him……for he laughs at its willing proponents as they craft their own self-destruction, mantled in self-deception.
That’s real mature. Let’s base an argument off of a typo.
Good job Cameron.
HisMan,
I love that post, it is so true.
..off topic, another story you won’t here from the wimps in the MSM, this couple was raped, tortured and savagely murdered. ( but they will cover the phony Duke lacrosse story )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom_murder
HisMan writes:
“The only difference between this procedure to save the baby and an abortion was the parent’s decision.”
Yes, HisMan, you’ve finally got it. If the mother wants to have a baby, the operation to help the fetus is a good thing. If the mother wants an abortion, she gets an abortion. Thank god we live in a country where the woman has that choice.
@His Man: I think you are ignoring the greater injustices in the world that happen to those who are already born. It depresses me that you care more for the unborn than the already born as you seem to focus all your energy on how evil abortion is and you neglect to see the greater evils that happen in the world around you.
Cameron, 10:50a, #1, thanks for pointing out the typo. I hate typos. #2, look up the definition of fetus and get back to me on your “ignorance” point.
Hal, don’t revel in your smugness so fast, aborter of 2. You miss the point. It’s still a a baby despite the decision of the parents. By your post you reveal that abortionists believe that the right to make the decision is more important than the baby, the human being inside the womb and thereby, grotesquely justify murder. Thank you for revealing the true nature of how abortionists think.
And Rae, if one can’t be concerned about the “least of these”, I doubt there is any true concern for any one else. Jesus actually bases entrance into the Kingdom on how one treated the least of these. What more least on earth can one be than to be an innocent, defenselss child in the womb? Your statement is false. I care and do more for already born people than you can imagine, primary to that being to speak against abortion and the results of its destruction.
@His Man: I guess I just don’t understand your reasoning behind that, but that just could be because I fail to see it as I don’t believe in the bible or the Christian God.
*shrugs*
Rae,
Our Catholic church does a tremendous amount for the poor, single mothers, crisis pregnancy centers, etc. But also stresses the total injustice of killing the unborn.
Do you have a secular group that you belong to that does the same?
Rae,
This is not a fantasy world. You are not Alice in Wonderland.
Whether or not you believe in God or the Bible or wish something away does not change the facts one iota. Sorry, it’s not an excuse that will work to a Holy God who provides mountains of evidence (pun intended) of His existence.
Please wake up.
@Jasper: I don’t belong to any congregation or group, as my views don’t really correspond with any at the moment.
I used to be Catholic, but my church seemed more concerned with raising money to rebuild and refurbish the church than it did helping others.
And if I do recall, the Catholic Church stood by and did nothing to prevent the Holocaust (though I think I just Godwinn’d with this comment).
@His Man: I could say the same for you, as you seem to put a lot of faith into a fairy-tale and believe in a mythological being.
Mountains weren’t created by God…they were created when two tectonic plates collided and forced up the continental crust, just so you know.
Rae,
you didn’t answer my question. You challeneged HisMan on whether he cared for children aready alive, so I’m asking you:
Do you have a secular group that you belong to helps the poor, single mothers, etc. ?
“And if I do recall, the Catholic Church stood by and did nothing to prevent the Holocaust (though I think I just Godwinn’d with this comment).”
this is Bull-s*** told by people who hate the catholic church.
@Jasper: No, I don’t, as I said…I don’t belong to any congregation or group, secular or otherwise.
And thank you for informing me that that information is false. Do you have a citation for that?
“By your post you reveal that abortionists believe that the right to make the decision is more important than the baby, the human being inside the womb and thereby, grotesquely justify murder. Thank you for revealing the true nature of how abortionists think.”
HisMan, I can’t speak for all abortionists, but that is indeed my view of things. (other than the “Grotestquely justify murder” part)
See, I told you that you were beginning to understand.
As for smugness, I bow to you in that department.
Response to Rae’s slandering the Pope Pius XII:
…and this was from the NY-times:
The charge against Pius XII is slander against a good man and nothing more. After the
@Jasper: I didn’t slander him, I was just repeating what I heard. So thank you for providing me with information proving otherwise.
His Man, I LOVE that post. Keep on repeating it. It perfectly sums up abortion. Where did you say you got it?
Jill,
“The unborn offspring of a mammal at the later stages of its development, especially a human from eight weeks after fertilization to its birth. In a fetus, all major body organs are present.”
Again, whether or not it’s in the womb isn’t so important as it’s developmental stage which is demarcated at one by the completion of gestation. e.g. we do not call a full grown adult, somehow crammed back into a womb, a fetus. Likewise, for my biology classes, we don’t order baby pigs for disection, we order fetal pigs, and they are called such despite having been removed from the uterus, and thankfully so.
I’m fine with you calling it a baby however, as the mother likely refers to it as her baby, it will soon be baby should all go well, and because it’s not particularly misrepresentative in that light. But if you’re going to make a big deal about the doctor calling it a fetus… You should be consistent, are you should start self-identifying as a corpse.
Heather4Life:
I wrote it, but God gave it to me. I first put it in an e-mail to various church leaders when I was working on a gubernatorial election.
I’d like the world to hear it.
Rae –
I have Catholic relatives that died in Auschwitz. They were in Auschwitz because they were caught hiding Jews.
Saint Maximillian Kolbe was a priest who died while in Auschwitz. During the war he provided shelter to approx 2,000 Jews and was arrested for this and sent to Auschwitz. A married Jewish man was suppose to be sent to his death but Saint Kolbe took that man’s place. He went through 3 weeks of starvation and dehydration until the Nazi’s injected him with carbolic acid.
And a Catholic just received an award for saving hundrends of jewish children by sneaking them out of Poland. She buried the info on where the kids were sent in hopes that the families could find each other later. Some of them did find each other.
The Catholic’s walked into the concentration camps right along with the Jews. Especially in Poland.
“it will soon be baby should all go well”
Hey Jill, only if “all goes well it will be a baby”
Cameron …..playing God again
Haha
Hal,
You said: “Yes, HisMan, you’ve finally got it. If the mother wants to have a baby, the operation to help the fetus is a good thing. If the mother wants an abortion, she gets an abortion. Thank god we live in a country where the woman has that choice.”
You stated that saving the baby was a good thing, what does that make abortion? Again, I will repeat, the decsion is not more important than the baby.
Please don’t thank God for something He is not repsonsible for, the unrighteous laws that legalize murder of innocent children in the womb are not from God.
And if you see my attitude as smug, well, it’s not. I bow to a Holy God and admit to Him that all life is precious. I call that humility.
You, owever, continue to justify the killing of your two children. I suspect that it’s just too painful to admit that’s what you did so you continue to deny the truth that abortion is against everything godly and holy.
Unfortunately you will have to face the facts someday, and I really hope it will be before you are forced do before a Holy God.
Valerie,
What an awesome story. There are untold millions of believers who will be recognized at the Great Feast of our Lord for the countless selfless acts they performed in defending and rescuing others from the clutches of evil.
God kows who belongs to Him and whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
His Man writes: “You stated that saving the baby was a good thing, what does that make abortion? Again, I will repeat, the decsion is not more important than the baby.”
The right to make that decision is more important than the baby. Yes, it is.
I would be horrorified to live in a country where the government had the power to stop a woman from deciding whether or not to have an abortion.
If I told you God gave me permission to abort my children, you would not believe me. Yet, I’m supposed to accept what you say God wants?
Voltaire: “Doubt is not a very pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.”
Hal, God didn’t give you permission to abort your children. We have free will to do right or wrong. God DID give us free will. Use it wisely.
And therefore, Heather, we have a free will to choose what we do in our lives.
Heather4Life, I know. I was not saying I had God’s permission.
I was only trying to point out that when anyone (i.e., HisMan) claims to know what God wants, they should be ignored. (or at least challenged)
Hal, are you going to tell us your story? I remember Janet wanted to hear it and so did I. Maybe if you have time one of these days. I’d really like to hear it.
Hal,
God’s will is revealed in His word, the Bible. Primarily, He wants us to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and to follow Him. I don’t expect you to understand that since you live in the flesh and are not even able discern spiritual matters. In fact, it does not surprise me that you consider these things to be foolish.
Perhaps God will open your spiritual eyes. For now, I will just bear with all your assertions that I should be ignored or challenged. Keep in mind that it is not me who you oppose, but the Creator of the Universe. I am just a humble follower of Him who died for me…..and you.
Hisman speaks the truth.
As Jesus instructed His apostles to spread the Truth (which is Jesus Himself).
God/Jesus are the great imposters evidenced by Jesus claiming to be his avatar and using the name so similar to that of the true last avatar… Krishna. You people are blind.
HisMan, I have no quarel with the Creator of the Universe. In fact, I’m glad we have a universe.
No, it is you I oppose. I’m trying to be civil, but I do get aggravated when I read your posts. (to put it mildly)
I don’t consider your views “foolish,” I consider them dangerous. However, I’m not going to change you and you’re not going to change me. I’ll be quiet unless you say something that I can’t in good conscience ignore.
Ingrid,
Yes we have free will, however, we are constrained. We cannot just do anything without consequence.
I am sure you would love to club me over the head if you could get away with it, however, there are laws against that which have consequences. Beyond that, there are spiritual consequences.
Having a free will is not an end in itself. All of our choices have consequences. Hence, all choices are not good ones and one of them is abortion which kills an innocent human life in the womb.
His Man, Amen to that!
Hal,
So Jesus Christ is the Creator of the Universe and you have no quarrel with Him?
Cameron,
1 John 2:18
“Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.”
1 John 2:22
“Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist
Hal, as Christian’s we can not simply “live and let live”. We are not walking with Christ if we do nothing to further His glory on Earth.
We are not telling you of Christ because we hate you. Quite the opposite. We are telling your of Christ because we know Him to be the only way to salvation and we would be negligent not to spread His word.
We are not looking to judge you, but we know that all fall short in obtaining their own salvation. I hope you realize that the poster “His Man” is trying to reach out to you.
We can not convict you to follow Christ, only the Holy Spirit has that capabiliity. We can, however give you knowledge of Christ and Him crucified. What you do with that information is between you and God.
I feel reminded of an episode of “America’s Next Top Model”… “hey, you’re an atheist, have a look at my bible!”
no, my friend, there was a universe before Jesus Christ. He can not therefore be the Creator of the Universe, even under your theology.
Am I really the antichrist for not acknowledging Jesus Chrst as coming in the flesh? I’m not sure what “coming in the flesh” even means, but if it means being the son of God, then I don’t acknoweldge it. I’m the antichrist? Omg. not even “a” antichrist, but THE Antichrist?
Hal said
“there was a universe before Jesus Christ. He can not therefore be the Creator of the Universe, even under your theology”
Nope. Since we’re talking about our theology, let me show you why this is incorrect.
The Gospel of John Verse 1 chapter 1
In the beginning was teh Word, and Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, an d without Him nothing was made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
…(Discusses John the Baptist)
That was the true Light that gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world and the world was mde through Him, and the world did not know Him.
It continues, but I think you get the point.
Everyone,
I believe Hal is Cameron and Cameron is Hal. Be warned.
I knew there couldn’t be two people like him on the planet.
ok, thanks Lauren. I understood God can be the creator of the universe, and I understand that Jesus is God, but he’s also the son of God. And I thought he was born about 2000 years ago, so I was thinking that since there was a universe before Jesus was born then God, but not Jesus, could be the Creator of the Universe.
I really don’t know much about theology, and don’t really need to. I’ll defer to you guys, who know way more.
So, I’ll modify my original statement. I have no quarel with Jesus for creating the universe. If he did that, I’m glad. If the Universe was created some other way, that’s fine with me too.
Jesus doesn’t talk to me. He leaves me alone. Hisman posts comments here, and my quarel is with him. Although, what’s there to quarel about if I’m not interested in debating theology, and HisMan seems to want to talk about little else?
His Man, thank you!
I don’t know Cameron. I do know a lot of people on the planet like me. (not exactly, of course, but in the way you’re talking about)
Now it all seems to add up.[see above post]
Hal, it’s ok. I know the nature of YHWH is confusing. I was just trying to help you have a better understanding of Christian theology.
It helps to understand Christ’s sacrifice when you understand His nature. Unfortunately, I think alot of non-Christians get confused with the “God the son” aspect of most Christian theology. It *is* confusing, but if you’re interested I could explain it a bit.
It could be Hal, that they just don’t get out much, and, well, when you’re hammer, everything that is not a hammer looks like a nail.
If His Man beleives it though, just like God/Jesus… then it must be so. ;-D
Cameron,
Hal you, you Hal, just a theory, and wouldn’t base my eternal soul on it.
Look, let’s stop the jabs at each other. We’re obviously on different sides of the argument. You don’t like me and I don’t like your arrogance, however, I do pray for you and would hope you see teh light.
If I’m wrong, no one gets hurt. If I’m right, I wouldn’t want to be you. So, I’ll cut you some slack and let the Spirit deal with you.
However, please stop degrading my Lord Jesus Christ, OK?
Cameron,
Hal you, you Hal, just a theory, and wouldn’t base my eternal soul on it.
Look, let’s stop the jabs at each other. We’re obviously on different sides of the argument. You don’t like me and I don’t like your arrogance, however, I do pray for you and would hope you see the light.
If I’m wrong, no one gets hurt. If I’m right, I wouldn’t want to be you. So, I’ll cut you some slack and let the Spirit deal with you.
However, please stop degrading my Lord Jesus Christ, OK?
Can’t speak for Cameron, but I’ll stop. Best wishes to you.
Hal,
I’ve never had any but good wishes for you.
That’s why I speak Jesus to you.
Mine in not the outcome, only speaking of the truth.
How about yall stop being so condescending to Hal? I know his wife had two abortions, but ragging on him isnt going to change that. It only furthers the image that pro-choicers push: pro-lifers are judgmental and condemning of those who have had an abortion, and they cannot be trusted with a post-abortive mother’s (or father’s) emotional welfare.
I should think that true pro-lifers, rather than pointing out the stick in his eye repetitively and rudely, would follow Heather’s lead and try to learn from Hal’s situation. If you know what led Hal and his wife to their decisions, perhaps you could work on making sure that those obstacles do not prevent other couples from seeing thier pregnancies thru.
Thanks Samantha, but don’t worry. I don’t take it personally.
I’m declaring peace anyway.
I believe people of good will can have different views on this issue. Most of the people on this site seem to be people of good will. I’ll keep quiet about the rest. (usually–sometimes I can’t help myself)
Jasper,
.off topic, another story you won’t here from the wimps in the MSM, this couple was raped, tortured and savagely murdered. ( but they will cover the phony Duke lacrosse story )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom_murder
This story leaves me speechless…I’m glad I skipped dinner.
Midnite, would you agree that these five have anti-social personality disorders?
Valerie,
That is so funny that you brought up Maximillian Kolbe. He was going to be my next “story” for Samantha…but you beat me to it.
Samantha,
were you paying attention?
mk
Jasper, Im not sure about national media, but in the South that story actually received a large amount of publicity and the families great support. It is a terrible incident to research.
MK I saw it! But Im still waiting on my story!
Samantha,
Okay,
Go to the post on Planned Parenthood Undercover…
I’ll put it there because this post will probably disappear…
mk