Moderator Bethany just forwarded me these Planned Parenthood slogans she found on the Victoria Taft blog.
Bethany wondered if these were jokes. I quickly responded, “Oh, yeah,” but on 2nd glance I wondered.
These are jokes, right?
UPDATE, 9:20a: Per The Dawn Patrol via Michelle Malkin, these are real! They have got to be kidding. Dawn posts more PP ads from around the world.
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“These are jokes, right?”
Beats me!
They seem normal to me, I don’t see them as jokes.
what’s the problem? Fewer is better.
@Hal,
To a very poor person whose country has no social security and even getting to adulthood is iffy – more is definitely best.
John
Hal,
The fewer the better what??? Nigerians???
I knew you never had a problem with killing babies, but a racist, too? You never cease to amaze me.
They seem normal to me, I don’t see them as jokes.
what’s the problem? Fewer is better.
You don’t see a problem with Planned Parenthood, who is supposed to be about “choice”, promoting the idea that children are “bad”, “burdens”, and that we need less of them, and that NOT aborting them would be hurting the planet?
You don’t see how this doesn’t add up with the term “choice”?
Exactly, JLM.
The fewer the better what??? Nigerians???
I knew you never had a problem with killing babies, but a racist, too? You never cease to amaze me.
You have GOT to be kidding me. THIS, surely is a joke, right, JLM? You really aren’t accusing Hal of being racist when it was you who made that implication in the first place. You cannot honestly be that dense and that stupid.
You have GOT to be kidding me. THIS, surely is a joke, right, JLM? You really aren’t accusing Hal of being racist when it was you who made that implication in the first place. You cannot honestly be that dense and that stupid.
Leah, take a look at the slogans, and who they are targeted to.
Its just another classic case of our cultural arrogance, projecting our values onto other cultures. Since we view fewer children as better, other cultures must as well. Do we in our arrogance ever stop to think that other cultures don’t share our perspective on children? We push our birth control and abortion since we of course know best.
Do we ever stop to ask other cultures how they view us? Do we consider that they in no way share our values? That they may consider what we do every bit as barbaric and appalling as how we view their customs?
Racism? I think cultural arrogance is a better description.
You have GOT to be kidding me. THIS, surely is a joke, right, JLM? You really aren’t accusing Hal of being racist when it was you who made that implication in the first place. You cannot honestly be that dense and that stupid.
Leah,
Absolutely, I am. In a country where AIDS is considered a “pandemic” by Planned Parenthood, Nigeria, they’re obviously dropping like flies from AIDS so why advertise “population control”, (we all know that means abortion) when it seems Nigeria is doing just fine in that area.
“The average Nigerian will live to be just 47 years old and will most likely live in poverty, relying on either traditional agriculture or employment in the oil industry. An estimated 13 percent of children will die before the age of five, and those who make it to adulthood face a growing HIV/AIDS pandemic.
The HIV/AIDS pandemic, which has already left at least 930,000 children orphaned, and the high rates of maternal death and disability, are outstanding public health issues in Nigeria. A high incidence of unsafe abortion is driven by legal restrictions and social stigma, while an extremely low rate of contraceptive use contributes to an estimated 1.4 million unintended pregnancies each year.
In response to the growing HIV/AIDS pandemic, the Nigerian government launched a program in 2004 that will provide much-needed drugs to many Nigerians with HIV but can nowhere near address the growing HIV/AIDS infection rate. Among Nigerian youth and adolescents, a persistent lack of contraceptive use (owing in part to misconceptions about effectiveness and side-effects) as well as a dearth of knowledge about sexually transmitted infections, including HIV/AIDS, continue to fuel the spread of disease.”
Instead of marketing a solution to this AIDS pandemic, Planned Parenthood instead markets aborting the children first.
So the solution, according to Planned Parenthood, is abort those children early, and we can wipe out the entire Nigerian generation alot more quickly.
Yes, Hal would be a racist, along with Planned Parenthood.
I wasn’t joking.
Link for 9:53 am post:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/international-program/nigeria-country-program-19027.htm
Beautiful, Mary.
I don’t see these ads as promoting abortion, but contraception.
“The fewer the better what??? Nigerians???”
People in general.
Americans, Nigerians, Canadians, English, Japanese, etc……
Love to stay and keep discussing, but I really have to go, Sorry to miss what will certainly be a lively debate.
…And yet Jill limited herself to a small family – just above replacement level – as I’ve noticed MOST pro-lifers on this board have.
Why? Doncha want a million kids?
JLM makes an excellent point, PP is addressing the wrong problems, (as usual).
Is there anyone who has the authority to tell Planned Parenthood “enough is enough”? They make Americans look like morons to the rest of the world. We as a country will have the blood of these aborted children on our hands. God will not look favorably on us.
…And yet Jill limited herself to a small family – just above replacement level – as I’ve noticed MOST pro-lifers on this board have.
Why? Doncha want a million kids?
Posted by: FetusFascist at February 28, 2008 10:19 AM
And just what do you know about most pro-lifers on this site RFF?
FF:
That was rude.
FF,
In societies where the standard of living has improved, the population has stabilized. Look at our own history. My great grandmother had nine children and lost five. She was lucky since four survived. That was very typical in that era. Many people didn’t have any children survive at all. This is the situation you see in much of the third world now. JLM makes an excellent point. Until poverty, high infant and child mortality rates, ignorance, disease, and malnutrition are addressed, birth rates will remain high and children will continue to be born into these horrendous conditlions.
I’m rude because I pointed out that many of you who advocate “no birth control” and large families usually have three or fewer children?
Put your money where your mouth is! Have a dozen!
…And yet Jill limited herself to a small family – just above replacement level – as I’ve noticed MOST pro-lifers on this board have.
Why? Doncha want a million kids?
Uh you do realize that people don’t automatically have children when they decide they want them, don’t you? If that could happen, I’d have 12 kids by now.
Put your money where your mouth is! Have a dozen!
thank you very much! If God allows it, I will!
Certainly you are an approved foster parent?
Back up the truck and load ’em up!
Certainly you are an approved foster parent?
Back up the truck and load ’em up!
Posted by: FetusFascist at February 28, 2008 10:43 AM
Would, but can’t. They’re all being aborted.
It’s always struck me as ironic that Conservitive preach “family values” and “traditional roles for women,” yet their divas -like Michelle Malkin and Laura Bush – have two kids, and Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Condaleeza Rice have none.
Why do the Republian role models have so few children when women like Nancy Pelosi have FIVE?
FF –
“Put your money where your mouth is! Have a dozen!”
I would love to! But can’t physically.
“Certainly you are an approved foster parent?”
Tell the government that even though I have medical problems that I can be a good parent and I would love to. But until the government has such restrictions….can’t.
“It’s always struck me as ironic that Conservitive preach “family values” and “traditional roles for women,” yet their divas -like Michelle Malkin and Laura Bush – have two kids, and Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Condaleeza Rice have none.”
Imagine that! And they did that without abortion.
FF,
We were told by the early leaders of the movement to “reform” abortion laws that legal abortion would mean fewer children in foster care. There really shouldn’t be that many to “load up” should there?
Certainly you are an approved foster parent?
Back up the truck and load ’em up!
Posted by: FetusFascist at February 28, 2008 10:43 AM
Would, but can’t. They’re all being aborted.
Also, I would but they won’t allow homeschoolers to foster.
Why do people who support and preach family values have to produce a lot of children? What’s the connection?
I’ve seen people with few values of any kind produce plenty of kids.
It’s always struck me as ironic that Conservitive preach “family values” and “traditional roles for women,” yet their divas -like Michelle Malkin and Laura Bush – have two kids, and Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Condaleeza Rice have none.
Why do the Republian role models have so few children when women like Nancy Pelosi have FIVE?
Posted by: FetusFascist at February 28, 2008 10:52 AM
RFF:
Well I guess that just puts you in good company doesn’t it.
Uh you do realize that people don’t automatically have children when they decide they want them, don’t you? If that could happen, I’d have 12 kids by now.
Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 10:32 AM
Another reason that having children shouldn’t be taken for granted.
Laura,
…And yet Jill limited herself to a small family – just above replacement level – as I’ve noticed MOST pro-lifers on this board have.
You’ve notice that huh? Getting older? Need those glasses?
Val has 2 and trying for more. Bethany has 3, plus Her two in heaven (that makes 5) and would have 10 more if she could, Kristin has at least 5, maybe more, I have six…those with fewer are younger and have only just begun…
To whom are you referring?
mk- I’m 41 and trying for more!
S.
S,
Well there you go. I can’t imagine who Laura is referring to…Certainly no one on this board. They either have a boatload, are trying for a boatload or weren’t blessed with a boatload but wish they had been.
I guess being pro death means you are exempt from fostering/adopting kids?
FF –
I have 6, several people, just on my street alone, have 7 and 8. I’ve looked into adoption but many countries don’t allow adoption if there are already 5 children in your family. They do allow adoption for special needs children into large families which I would do were it not in the tens of thousands of dollars.
And about conservative women having only 2 children (Michelle Malkin, etc.) Last time I looked Michelle is still relatively young and may have more. What about Phyllis Schlafly’s 6 children?
I, for one, have never heard Michelle, or Anne, or Laura state that women should ONLY have “traditional roles.” They simply think that women who choose to have large families should not be looked down upon for their choice – as many do.
I have 4 children and 3 in heaven. I would have one more but at 42 this Momma is gettin too tired to carry one. :) I would love to adopt!!
Drats. Foiled again.
RFFs snide comments get her nowhere.
“I’m rude because I pointed out that many of you who advocate “no birth control” and large families usually have three or fewer children?”
It is rude because you don’t know the circumstances people are in in which they end up with 1 or 2 kids, they may have fertility problems and you are being ignorantly rude. You don’t know!!! Stop assuming.
I don’t see these ads as promoting abortion, but contraception.
Hal, abortion is PP’s definition of contraception.
Having children you cant feed is never a good idea.
I don’t see these ads as promoting abortion, but contraception.
Hal, abortion is PP’s definition of contraception.
Posted by: JLM at February 28, 2008 12:41 PM
**************************
Maybe according to someone who is too stupid to know what the word ‘contraception’ means.
Rosie,
How true. Some years ago I took a news magazine to task for their incredibly biased reporting on the abortion issue. I asked why they always mention the religious beliefs and family sizes of PL people, but never do the same when discussing PC people. Certainly if this is so relevant and insightful, then family sizes and religious beliefs of people on both sides of the issue should be equally reported.
My opinion was that it was a blatant effort to prejudice readers, plus a display of their own bias.
The answer was absurd. I was told that since most “anti-abortion” people oppose contraception(based on what?) the magazine was pointing out they “practice what they preach” by having large families, presumably because they oppose contraception.
I told the magazine their reasoning was laughable. People may have small families or no children not because of contraception, but because of an inablity or great difficulty in conceiving. People with large families may have no issue with contraception, they just choose to have large families.
At that time actress Mia Farrow had adopted a large number of children and was adopting more.
I asked the magazine if they assumed, and the general public should assume,that because of her large family, Ms. Farrow opposed contraception. I never did get an answer.
Having children you cant feed is never a good idea.
Posted by: TexasRed at February 28, 2008 1:08 PM
Getting pregnant with children you can’t feed is never a good idea.
TR,
Correct the problems of malnutrition, poverty, and disease and these women will have fewer children since they will not need to have 10 children just to make sure 2 survive.
I saw a program on Afghanistan where a woman was having her 7th child by C-section. She had already lost 6. Miraculously mother and baby survived the surgery. Her husband had to run through town looking for suture while the OR crew waited to sew her back up.
This one woman has given birth to 7 children, lost 6 to disease and malnutrition, and hopes at least 1 will survive.
Maybe according to someone who is too stupid to know what the word ‘contraception’ means.
EXACTLY! You’re starting to connect the dots, Iva.
Maybe according to someone who is too stupid to know what the word ‘contraception’ means.
Posted by: TexasRed at February 28, 2008 1:09 PM
TR,
Tsk Tsk
Can you ever post any comments without using the words stupid, ignorant, idiot, demented. You just sound so enraged all the time.
So just to try and understand you just a little better, I need to ask. Is it the boots that are too tight and are pinching your toes? or is it the chaps that are chaffing a lttle too hard on the hinder?
Maybe according to someone who is too stupid to know what the word ‘contraception’ means.
EXACTLY! You’re starting to connect the dots, Iva.
Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 1:25 PM
Way LOL!!!
So just to try and understand you just a little better, I need to ask. Is it the boots that are too tight and are pinching your toes? or is it the chaps that are chaffing a lttle too hard on the hinder?
It could be that her panties are always in a knot. Who knows?
Leah, take a look at the slogans, and who they are targeted to.
Oh God. Not you too, Bethany. I SAW who the signs were targeted too and they are being completely taken out of context, and so is Hal’s comment. The signs are a promotion for contraception targeted at Nigeria because of an overpopulation problem. No one is trying to get rid of the Africans. Thinking that PP and Hal are being racist is being way hypersensitive. It’s just ridiculous.
I can ALMOST tolerate 3 of these “slogans.” I mean they are entitled to their opinion and when I was pregnant with my third an idiot I worked with told me I was being “irresponsible” to have more than two – one to replace me and one to replace my husband. Whatever…that whole argument has been around forever.
BUT what I can’t tolerate is the one that says “Why carry more ‘burdens’?” Calling a child a “burden?”
IF PP ever were successful at convincing people they “cared” about children, they completely negated it by this add.
“Put your money where your mouth is! Have a dozen!
thank you very much! If God allows it, I will! ”
Heck yeah, Bethany! You’re my hero!
MK –
“Val has 2 and trying for more.”
I can’t have anymore. I really wish I could! I always wanted a big family.
I have two and I have three in heaven. So that makes 5 pregnancies.
I do have to say that it is quite hurtful when people take having children with such a blase attitude. For me, getting pregnant was easy, staying pregnant was the hard part. With my 5th pregnancy that resulted in my daughter, I had to give myself shots every day and had to have limited activity (try that with a 3 1/2 year old running around!) and no sex. This pregnancy was an accident as the doctor told me that I shouldn’t try anymore after having a premature child and 3 late first trimester miscarriages. I’m so grateful that I was at a Catholic Hospital! Abortion was never mentioned by them – by other people it was, but not by them. The result was my beautiful daughter who has the biggest attitude I’ve ever seen!
I would absolutely love to adopt or be a foster parent but they won’t let me because I have clinical depression (which is controlled through medication) and my mother committed suicide. So, according to them I’d be a bad Mom. Nice, huh?
I detest that Planned Parenthood says that children are burdens. Just because one person says burden doesn’t mean other people will too. That is what is so amazing about the whole abortion being a choice thing. ONE person gets to decide who is worthy enough to live and who would be a burden. Makes me sick.
I have had personal experience with some Nigerian people and they do have a very poor outlook on pregnancy/children. I was never really sure why this was. They didn’t really look at abortion as a big deal.
I think I know why now.
Valerie,
So sorry to hear of your three miscarriages.
I like you would love to have had more. I always envisioned myself walking with a child on my hip, holding one by the hand, and two trailing closely behind. I have two in heaven and am so blessed to have two earthly children.
I did get my four, but now when I walk, I have two to hold my hands and two I am looking forward to meeting some day.
I did get my four, but now when I walk, I have two to hold my hands and two I am looking forward to meeting some day.
:tear:
That is very sweet and very sad at the same time. You have 2 in heaven as angels to look after the 2 here on earth. Couldn’t ask for better guardian angels than that.
Thanks Elizabeth,
There’s not a day that goes by that I don’t think about them and wonder what they would look like and who’s personality they would take after.
promoting the idea that children are “bad”, “burdens”
If you’re living in a mud hut barley not starving to death hoping that you don’t get raped and beaten to a pulp when you go and get water from your contaminated well then yes, you probably don’t want to deal with that and 6 young kids. Also there are these really young girls getting married and having babies before their bodies are developed and it is killing them and maiming them. Abortion is probably then safer bet if you’re 13 instead of pushing out a 7 pound person from your tiny, underdeveloped body.
“Leah, take a look at the slogans, and who they are targeted to.”
Yes because white people aren’t allowed to have abortions, just African and Asian people.
“I would absolutely love to adopt or be a foster parent but they won’t let me because I have clinical depression (which is controlled through medication) and my mother committed suicide. So, according to them I’d be a bad Mom. Nice, huh?”
You see I think that’s stupid. You already have two children and they’re fine, what makes them think you’ll randomly be a bad Mom to a foster child? Either prevent the real psychos from having children (um, you could say anyone religious, read Andrea Yates story it definitely was her religious beliefs that pushed her over the edge) or let the imperfect but loving families adopt. One reason I’m pro-choice is the fact that the foster care and adoptive services in this country is so wacked out.
Is the poverty of a mudhut as well as hunger, rape, abuse, and contaminated water going to be solved with a suction aspirator?
These girls may marry young because of short life spans, as well as lack of opportunity and education. They have several children expecting few to survive.
So let’s give them birth control pills…
Well, it sure beats taking the time and effort to really do something to better their lives, plus it makes us feel like we’re doing something to better people’s lives without really doing anything.
A round of applause for Mary! :) That is so true.
You see I think that’s stupid. You already have two children and they’re fine, what makes them think you’ll randomly be a bad Mom to a foster child?
It is stupid you are correct. But I did hear this one story about a woman who had quite a few foster children I can’t remember how many exactly. And ALL the boys (3 or 4) she starved them and abused them. The girls were treated fine though. There is actually a family picture with all of them and you can clearly see the boys are malnourished and dying basically from starvation. The girls, mom, and dad all look fine. It was really creepy.
**Not that I’m saying Sandy wouldn’t be a perfectly wonderful foster mother, I’m sure she would be great!!**
Having a baby when your twelve or thirteen isn’t going to make you stronger, healthier, more educated or give them more opportunities. What good are schools if all the females are at home taking care of young children? Either they can go on living in poverty with their many children like they have for centuries or they can adopt a new lifestyle.
If you give a man a fish he’ll eat for a day, if you teach a man to fish he’ll eat for a lifetime.
If you give a man a fish he’ll eat for a day, if you teach a man to fish he’ll eat for a lifetime.
And giving women birth control and abortions is analogous to teaching a man to fish, how?
Like Mary said, your efforts to “help” these people through abortions and birth control are just an illusion.
Jess,
What pushed Andrea Yates over the edge was post partum psychosis and an idiot husband who should have taken matters into his own hands and ended any further child bearing. I in no way believe she was competent to make the decision to go off her psych meds and become pregnant with a 5th child. I felt this is where a loving, caring husband would have taken charge and said no more babies. Even have a vasectomy. Instead he says he and his wife decided together to have another baby. I bet they did. Why would Rusty even consider this with his wife’s history? Also, he talked about discontinuing her psych meds like she was discontinuing vitamin pills. He said if she developed symptoms of psychosis they would recognize and treat them. YOU STUPID MORON. Do you think you would just give her an aspirin and she’s fine? We’re talking major, debilitating psychosis here.
Well guess what, she became severely psychotic again… real no brainer. So he leaves this sick woman alone with 5 small children. I hold him responsible for what happened and think he should be in the slammer with Andrea, who I think belongs in a hospital or extended care facility.
Andrea and her husband also listened to a preacher who told Andrea she was evil because she was Roman Catholic and the best thing she could do for her children was kill them because she had already contaminated them with her evil. Her husband based their lives around this minister.
Organized religion should be abolished! It is the cause of all of the evil in the world today!
Well guess what, she became severely psychotic again… real no brainer. So he leaves this sick woman alone with 5 small children. I hold him responsible for what happened and think he should be in the slammer with Andrea, who I think belongs in a hospital or extended care facility.
Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 4:08 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with Mary 100%
(Of course, I’ve had other weird stuff happen to me today…)
Jess,
Just what a mentally unstable woman needs. She was already showing signs of mental illness after her first baby. I’ve read that account too about that goofy minister and the great life Andrea had with Rusty because of his influence on them, you know, living in a bus. He finally bought them a home. Apparently her mental problems were only worsening.
The thing that grates me is she was finally stabilized after a severe bout of postpartum psychosis. Rusty should have had a vasectomy and Andrea helped instead of left to her deteriorating mental state after having a 5th child. Like I said Jess, the guy deserves prison in my opinion.
FF, 4:27PM
Actually my day has been pretty mundane but thank you for giving it a much needed boost!
Mary reminds me of Angela’s Ashes where the mother won’t have sex with the father. He said something about it being her duty as a Catholic wife and she replied, “I don’t care if I go to hell as long as I don’t have anymore children.” Such a sad story.
Bethany 3:58PM
Thank you!
I know these are Photoshopped.
Sugar, why? The pro-choicers here seem to think the message is perfectly fine.
yes, perfectly fine.
Fewer IS better.
and, someone who wants more children is still free to have them. A sticker from Planned Parenthood isn’t going to change their mind.
If both of my grandmothers hadn’t both had 7 children, I would not exist. Why? Because my dad wouldn’t have been born (he was 5th of 7). I might still exist in some form because my mother was the 2nd of 7, but still….. I wouldn’t be ME.
I hate this attitude of “Fewer is better”. A guy I went to school with K-12 grew up with 9 in his family (7 boys and 2 girls. This includes a set of twin. One sister was actually not born until he was in like 9th).
interesting:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/125163.html
Why are People Having Fewer Kids?
Perhaps it’s because they don’t like them very much.
* * *
in a 2007 Pew Research Center survey people insisted that their relationships with their little darlings are of the greatest importance to their personal happiness and fulfillment. However, the same survey also found “by a margin of nearly three-to-one, Americans say that the main purpose of marriage is the ‘mutual happiness and fulfillment’ of adults rather than the ‘bearing and raising of children.'”
Gilbert suggests that people claim their kids are their chief source of happiness largely because it’s what they are expected to say. In addition, Gilbert observes that the more people pay for an item, the more highly they tend to value it and children are expensive, even if you don’t throw in piano lessons, soccer camps, orthodonture, and college tuitions. Gilbert further notes that the more children people have, the less happy they tend to be. Since that is the case, it is not surprising that people are choosing to have fewer children.
Gilbert is an idiot.
Hal –
Gilbert? The Happiness Researcher?
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa590.pdf
“Happiness research
If anyone is interested, I found this:
http://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ni.html
Its the CIA’s info on Nigeria.
It’s so funny when PCer’s see themselves for what they really are like on those stickers or flyers and then they say, “Those were photoshopped” or “Those aren’t real, you guys are liars.” It kind of reminds me of the kid who got caught misbehaving in class and then says to his mom, “That teacher just doesn’t like me” or “It wasn’t me!”
Yup PP..it’s a big made-up conspiracy by us stupid pro-lifers to take you dowwwwwwwn!
But WHERE would we find the time? What, between our Bible-hugging and non-stop harrasment of your facilities?
That makes a pretty full day if ya ask me.
You guys just need to face it: people are waking up to the atrocity that is PP and they’re sinking their own ship…we’re just smiling as they do it.
You guys just need to face it: people are waking up to the atrocity that is PP and they’re sinking their own ship…we’re just smiling as they do it.
Posted by: Elizabeth at February 29, 2008 12:30 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Funny, Planned Parenthood is having a really good year donation-wise (odd in a faltering economy) and is building three new mega-clinics.
If the Democrats take the White House this year – along with the congress, and appoint new Supreme Court Justices, Planned Parenthood will be on solid ground for the next 35 years.
The stupid prank phone call story hasn’t even reached the MSM.
“But WHERE would we find the time? What, between our Bible-hugging and non-stop harrasment of your facilities?”
I misread Bible hugging as Bible humping and FREAKED out.
More Gilbert:
FF,
The phone call hasn’t reached the MSM? Imagine that! I think its more likely the MSM wouldn’t report it if it did reach them, not that they’re biased or anything.
After all, this is the same MSM that went ballistic over a Republican senator honoring a former segregationist at his 100th birthday party, but was strangely silent when Democrat Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton honored former klansman and klan recruiter, Democrat senator Robert Byrd, who also led the filibuster attempt against the Civil Rights Act of 1964, at his birthday party.
Media biased? NOT!
Mary, sooooo true!! You have been on a roll lately!
Bobby, 1:50 thank you! :)
Hmm, I have read a book on Andrea Yates and what happened: “Breaking Point (St. Martin’s True Crime Library)” by Suzy Spencer and it was a insightful and fairly balanced book. However I would caution those with major depression, it can be triggering and unsettling.
Yates’ conviction was later overturned on appeal. On July 26, 2006, a Texas jury ruled Yates to be not guilty by reason of insanity. She was consequently committed by the court to the North Texas State Hospital, Vernon Campus, a high-security mental health facility in Vernon, Texas, where she received medical treatment and was roommates with Dena Schlosser, another woman who committed filicide. In January, 2007, Yates was moved to a low security state mental hospital in Kerrville, Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates
Bethany,
Thank you. I’ve been off work this week so guess where I’ve been parked instead of getting anything done around the house? I suppose I should rest up though. I’ll be visiting my mother next week. She isn’t well, she’s having an MRI today and we hope for some answers, and my stepfather is coming home from the nursing home. I have no idea what to anticipate so you may hear little from me next week. I know that really breaks up some posters on this blog! I will be thinking about and caring about everyone on the blog and will offer my unsolicited opinions when I have a chance.
I’ll miss you, Mary, but I know your family does come first!
I hope that you will find answers about your mother…hopefully everything will work out for her and she will be okay!
“If you give a man a fish he’ll eat for a day, if you teach a man to fish he’ll eat for a lifetime.”
Heifer International!
Rachael,
Thank you for the update. I’m glad that poor woman is in a hospital where she belongs. She’s probably one of the few people found not guilty by reason of insanity who actually has a well documented history of psychosis. When you think of the criminals let off the hook with the “insanity” defense, and here is Andrea with a documented history of psychosis initially being judged sane and guilty!
I heard that Rusty remarried and is living happily ever after. Do NOT get me started on him.
Bethany,
Thank you for your concern.
Hi Mary,
You will be missed!!!! I love your posts. Always full of priceless wisdom.
Prayers to your family.
Will be awaiting your return.
Mary, the media IS biased, how could it not be. It’s biased on ratings, they are ratings whores. I noticed they were right-wing biased during the 2000 elections. Now they are more left-leaning because of Bush’s 30% approval rating.
A lot of times I get angry that they stop doing real reporting on issues during the presidential race and instead focus on lame crapola nobody cares about. Half the people DON’T know the issues, but they know about personal stuff with the candidates. They also often substitute real issues and problems with fluff issues. I’ve even had a journalism student tell me her teacher told her not to continue her article on a political issue because “it wouldn’t sell.” Her teacher told her that she could either MAKE STUFF UP or scrap it altogether. Real journalism is dwindling.
TR,
Tsk Tsk
Can you ever post any comments without using the words stupid, ignorant, idiot, demented. You just sound so enraged all the time.
So just to try and understand you just a little better, I need to ask. Is it the boots that are too tight and are pinching your toes? or is it the chaps that are chaffing a lttle too hard on the hinder?
Posted by: Sandy at February 28, 2008 1:27 PM
*************
Thank you sandy – i can always rely on you to look like an idiot.
Maybe according to someone who is too stupid to know what the word ‘contraception’ means.
EXACTLY! You’re starting to connect the dots, Iva.
Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 1:25 PM
**********************
Contraceptives prevent pregnancy. Abortion is not a contraceptive. It is, however, birth control.
Sandy,
Thank you as well for your kind words and concern.
PIP,
I’ve always seen the MSM as left leaning. I remember how VP Dan Quayle was persecuted by the media for his “inexperience” and just about anything else they could go after him about, including his grades in college. He had considerably more experience than Barack Obama but no one questions Obama’s qualifications to be president. I remember when the Republicans won in 1994. You should have seen the sour mugs on the reporters reporting the Republican victory. I believe it was Peter Jennings or Tom Brokaw who accused the American people of having a temper tantrum. My, aren’t we condescending. Didn’t like the way we voted fellas?
Today we have a much greater variety of news sources, right, left, and everything in between, as well as the internet and blogs. People are considerably more well informed.
I agree real journalism is dwindling. There was a time it was hard hitting and brought about social change. Years ago I heard of a survey taken of journalism students. A large number said they were going into journalism, to paraphrase, to make this a better world.
A journalist is supposed to report the facts. If you want to better the world, work for a charity.
Hey Mary and PIP,
One of our good friends has been in the Military for 25 years. He thinks the reason why the media has become so whorish is that they are trying to fill air-time 24/7. Which is so different than in years past. They will grasp at anything to be the first on the scene with the latest greatest story and frequently don’t even wait for all of the facts to be verified. They just want to get the news out. He of course was mostly referring to the crisis in the middle east, but it applies to every news piece out there.
Posted by: Sandy at February 28, 2008 1:27 PM
*************
Thank you sandy – i can always rely on you to look like an idiot.
Posted by: TexasRed at February 29, 2008 12:32 PM
There’s that word again. When I read it, I switch the word to genious in my mind.
You just make my day TR!
Contraceptives prevent pregnancy. Abortion is not a contraceptive. It is, however, birth control.
Yes! Exactly!
Which is precisely why it’s ridiculous for PP to consider abortion a form of birth control- to be more precise, contraceptive. Which is why I said that you connected the dots so wonderfully, Iva. You’re finally getting it!
There’s that word again. When I read it, I switch the word to genious in my mind.
You just make my day TR!
Isn’t that fun? I also change the word “megalomaniac” or “mysogynist” to hero to sweetheart and it works great. Iva loves me.
Hehe
Yes! Exactly!
Which is precisely why it’s ridiculous for PP to consider abortion a form of birth control- to be more precise, contraceptive.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, abortion is a form of birth control. It is not, however, a form of contraception
There’s that word again. When I read it, I switch the word to genious in my mind.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, the irony…
Abortion is a form of birth control…For reproductive slobs.
Oh, the irony…
Posted by: FetusFascist at February 29, 2008 4:23 PM
The irony is that this comment comes from a dog catcher.
BTW, don’t forget to clean out the kennels before you leave work tonight.
Heather!
Where have you been? Missed having you around.
Sandy, I’ve missed you too!!!
Heather,
As you can see we are still fighting the battle!
Good to have you back.
Thank you. Good to be here.
Heather, I bought you ten steaks, but you repeatedly were not around, so I had to eat them all.
Doug
TR,
Thank you sandy – i can always rely on you to look like an idiot.
You can always rely on Sandy to look like an idiot?
I have talked to people who knew Andrea Yates personally and her family. They say she seemed okay. She was polite etc.
I think what happened was a tragedy.
She is mentally ill. At first hearing the story, I felt the same anger and frustration that I hear some here expressing. Unfortunatley people who live around someone experiencing mental illness sometimes don’t realize how serious or dangerous it is until it is too late. I wish no one ever had to experience these things. I wish there were a way to predict whose condition would resolve and whose would turn fatal. The truth is we are all fallable. We don’t know what to do sometimes. We second guess ourselves.
I truly believe that no one in Andrea Yates family realized how dangerous her condition was. I also believe the suffering of everyone involved reminds us to take symptoms of mental illness more seriously. I remember when a close friend of mine commited suicide. He was kind of emotional and melancholy, very kind. I never saw it coming. He called a couple of days before his death, but I didn’t get a chance to call him back. Things like that really haunt me with the “what if’s”.
I wish there were perfect answers for all these questions. I still think compassion for these families is the way to move on. The anger is really in the fact that often we can’t control or fix these things.
“If you give a man a fish he’ll eat for a day, if you teach a man to fish he’ll eat for a lifetime.”
Heifer International!
Posted by: prettyinpink at February 29, 2008 8:41 AM
Is heifer international one of those programs that gives poor folks livestock so they can make $ ?
I have to question the logic of giving someone who is poor another mouth to feed especially one that eats and drinks an enormous amount. I mean if you can’t feed your kids how are you going to feed that cow? Animal agriculture isn’t eco friendly either.
Hippie,
Some time after the birth of her 4th child, Andrea suffered severe postpartum psychosis and was even catatonic. She was hospitalized. Perhaps she should have been hospitalized longer. She was medicated and stabilized and sent home.
This is a woman with serious mental health issues. I think 4 small children would be taxing enough on a mentally stable woman, much less a woman with a history of mental instability, starting with the birth of her first child.
They were advised by doctors to have no more children. Wouldn’t a loving caring husband take charge in a situation like this and say no more? Maybe even have a vasectomy? Wouldn’t just basic common sense tell this man his wife should have no more children?
Instead he and Andrea decide to have another baby, so he says. Was this woman competent to enough to make such a decision? Why would Rusty even discuss such a thing with his wife at all with her history? It meant going off her psych drugs cold turkey. Rusty said if she showed symptoms again they would recognize them and she could be treated. Sure, just give her an aspirin tablet. Maybe instead of another baby Rusty should have concerned himself with a support system for his wife and help in tending to 4 small children.
After the 5th baby her mental condition continued to deteriorate. Big surprise there. He left her alone with the children expecting his mother to come over and help an hour after he left. In that hour or so they would be alone the children were killed.
He can dispense with his victimhood. I hold him every bit as responsible for this tragedy.
TR,
Thank you sandy – i can always rely on you to look like an idiot.
You can always rely on Sandy to look like an idiot?
Posted by: mk at February 29, 2008 9:27 PM
Yes, MK it’s true. Just this week alone I recall been labled stupid, idiot and was told to quit picking my nose and eating boogers.
I guess the one question I have is…were they all on the same debate team in high school?
*wink*
Mary,
I’ll be praying for your Mom this week. God bless you all.
what’s the problem? Fewer is better.
Posted by: hal at February 28, 2008 9:16 AM
It depends on what you are talking about.
However, is it really right for one to tell another to have fewer children?
I just have to quote the rabbi here:
Catholic or careless?
You can always rely on Sandy to look like an idiot?
Posted by: mk at February 29, 2008 9:27 PM
*****************
Yes, MK I can. Her comments about cactus, boots and hats make her look stupid. You pretending she is being ‘clever’ makes you look dishonest. Its always the same.
My grandparents had 10 children. They married in 1906 before contraceptives were really that available. The first was stillborn. The other 9 all grew to adulthood and had children of their own. Of those children, 2 had 4 children each. The rest had one or two. None of them had ‘large’ families. My ex was one of 7 children. One brother had 3 daughters – the third was ‘cant we try one more time for a boy?’ Two had no children. Two had only one child. The other two had 2 children each. None of them wanted big families. A lot of people would rather provide well for 1 or 2 children than barely get by with 5 or 6. There is nothing wrong with that.
Posted by: Sandy at February 28, 2008 1:27 PM
*************
Thank you sandy – i can always rely on you to look like an idiot.
Posted by: TexasRed at February 29, 2008 12:32 PM
There’s that word again. When I read it, I switch the word to genious in my mind.
You just make my day TR!
Posted by: Sandy at February 29, 2008 1:35 PM
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That youre not sharp enough to grasp the difference between idiot and genious doesnt surprise me. Your stupid comments make you look like an idiot. You think youre being ‘clever’. That you cant comprehend the difference doesnt surprise me either.
Doug, where are those steaks?
TR,
Your grandparents were very typical of that era. That 9 of their children grew to adulthood is miraculous, and very uncommon. My greatgrandmother had 9, lost 4 in childhood and 1 in young adulthood. She was considered the norm, and very fortunate. She had 4 survive to adulthood.
Her surviving daughters also had only 1 or 2 children but it was during the Great Depression. That might explain why your grandparent’s children limited their family sizes as well.
Also, with improved medical care, an improving standard of living, and better public health services children were more likely to survive to adulthood. There still were diseases though such as scarlet fever, diptheria, and whooping cough, all of which my mother had.
Janet,
Thank you for your kind words and prayers. I’ll keep everyone updated when I find out more next week.
You are all so kind and supportive and it is greatly appreciated.
Mary, I will be praying for you as well. Also, I’ll be responding to your e-mail.
Heather,
Thank you. I’ll look forward to hearing from you.
Heather: Doug, where are those steaks?
I did say I ate them all, so do you really wanna know, Heather?
Doug,
Just let our imaginations run wild.