The pregnancy pact
Gloucester High School in MA has “sex ed classes that end freshman year,” according to Time. (When do they begin?)
Now it has been learned that several female students entered into a pregnancy pact. When? According to the Boston Globe:
A large number of the pregnancies are among younger students, [local hospital official Cindy] Donaldson said.
“It’s very sad,” she said. “A good portion of them are sophomores.”
and, according to Time…
School officials started looking into the matter as early as October after an unusual number of girls began filing into the school clinic to find out if they were pregnant.
So far 17 of the 1,200 students are pregnant, 4x the norm, all under the age of 16.
So they learned how to have sex and get pregnant and immediately set out to accomplish both goals, with the school’s encouragement. Continued Time:
The high school has done perhaps too good a job of embracing young mothers…. [T]een parents are encouraged to take their children to a free on-site day-care center. Strollers mingle seamlessly in school hallways among cheerleaders and junior ROTC. “We’re proud to help the mothers stay in school,” says Sue Todd, CEO of Pathways for Children, which runs the day-care center.
Where is MSM decrying the failure of comprehensive sex ed? Ha. And will the school take a 2nd look at its promotion of teen sex and parenthood? Ha.
Instead, MSM and the school are incredibly focused on the only solution they can think of: potentially offering contraceptives without parental consent. They apparently didn’t read their own story. These girls got pregnant on purpose. They didn’t want contraceptives. Idiotic liberals.
Read this 900 word Boston Globe article, which promotes handing out contraceptives at GHS due to its “spike in teen pregnancy” without ever once mentioning the pregnancy pact.
[HT: Anti-Contraception News; moderator MK, proofreader Laura Loo]

Oh no! Those teens aren’t hiding their pregnancies! They’re not getting abortions! Those slutty girls. They should have been sent away and shamed instead of provided with day care centers and people who care about them.
17 girls in all.
I knew at least 2 girls in high school who had abortions, though I’m sure the number was higher than 17.
This case justifies my belief that if a woman is provided with a loving environment for her child, she’ll choose to have it rather than kill it.
Yet you would rather complain about teen pregnancy.
Don’t you realize that you make the problem worse when you create an unhealthy, counterproductive, negative environment for teens? All of a sudden, you’re upset because they’re not being PUNISHED badly enough for having sex at a young age. Heaven forbid they get off and actually relish having their children…
I’m sorry but where is the part that these girls entered into the pregnancy pact? Did they admit to it or something?
However, I don’t think they should get rid of those things that help the girls get their education and take care of their babies just because some girls are taking advantage of the system. (If that is in fact what they are doing)
What kind of idiot would think “Oh, I should have a baby so I can take advantage of the daycare here”???
Elizabeth, if you click on the link and read the whole article, it explains the counselors started asking around and discovered some kind of pact had been made.
The rest of the article is really interesting too. Pity Jill focused only on the pregnancy pact.
Apparently it’s perfectly okay for some people to have 17 kids, but not 17 people to have one kid. Ugh. Sorry, that’s not directed at you.
Edyt, you and Obama make a great team: no interest in prevention.
Where is MSM decrying the failure of comprehensive sex ed?
How is this a failure of comprehensive sex ed, exactly? BOTH comprehensive sex ed AND abstinence-only teach kids how to get pregnant.
So what do you propose, Jill? A new form of “sex education” that doesn’t even describe what sex is?
And will the school take a 2nd look at its promotion of teen sex and parenthood?
What a hypocrite you are, claiming to be “pro-life” while decrying this school’s pro-life programs to help girls choose life. Shame on you.
No problem – just identify the fathers and they can pay all the care fees, and marry the girls for life.
I recently heard of another local school which allegedly had 14 pregnant girls. The school nurses sensed something was up. So this looks interesting.
Wonderful state health officials – apparently agenda comes before safety with disregard about HPV, chlamydia etc. by advocating the pill.
reality – shoot first aim later right?
Proverbs 29:18
“Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint; but blessed is he who keeps the law.”
When godless liberal policy takes God and prayer out of schools this is what you reap: 50,000,000 abortions and young girls having sex.
Will it be too late before we suffer even more horrendous consequnces due liberal governance?
I know Laura and Edyt and Amanda and SoMG and Doug; they’re going to have sex anyway so why not teach them how. Never mind had these children been brought up since childhood by both their parents and society to fear God by respecting and obeying His laws, this garbage wouldn’t be happening. But I don’t expect people like you to understand this since you are a bi-product of this liberal crap.
One good thing I guess is that they’re not aborting. Perhaps some good will come of this. However, the way that liberals run things is public schools is exactly why I spend thousands of dollars a year sending my kid to radical Christian schools.
I was so proud of my son last night when we spent 3 hours explaining Christ to a Muslim last night. That’s my 30 year old virgin son who will be marrying his 27 year old virgin fiance in July.
Parents can raise moral kids in this age of darkness if they keep them away from liberal educators and saturate them with the love of God and Biblical principles.
Edyt, you and Obama make a great team: no interest in prevention.
Oh please, Jill. You know that’s BS. I have an interest in prevention. What I don’t have an interest in is shaming young women for getting pregnant and giving birth.
YOU of all people should be applauding their decision to carry the child to term.
Yeah, I don’t think it was wise of them to make a pact (if that is indeed, what they did. The journalist was unable to speak with any of the girls so none of them actually said there was a pact) and decide to go out and get pregnant, but that’s not the point I made.
The point is that you’re a hypocrite for trying to shame these girls for ACTUALLY DOING WHAT YOU PROMOTE – which is not have abortions.
But that’s not good enough for you, is it? It’s not good because these girls are PROUD to be mothers. And you don’t think they should be proud because they’re unmarried and teenagers.
Well f*** that. I’m glad they made the decision to keep their children and I’m glad their school supports them. I just wish you weren’t so busy being angry that they had sex that you could appreciate what a wonderful thing it is that they can have kids and can have a support system so that their babies get proper care and they get an education.
Edyt, fornication is a sin.
Yes it’s good that these girls are apperently not aborting, however, how many girls do you think got pregnant, got scared and are now aborting? Probably a lot more than are revelaing their pregnancies.
That’s the thing about abortion, it’s a secret holocuast.
However, nothing is hidden from God’s view.
Edyt, you and Obama make a great team: no interest in prevention.
Posted by: Jill Stanek at June 19, 2008 8:38 PM
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Gee, was Obama responsible for YOUR teenage pregnancy?
This is vaguely on topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwo8qxUit00
Says rising junior Kacia Lowe, who is a classmate of the pactmakers’: “No one’s offered them a better option.”
Yeah, I think this quote from the article says it all. The way to lower the teen pregnancy rate isn’t to make teen motherhood so freaking crummy that ANYTHING ELSE is, by default, a better option — it’s to make sure that young women and men have access to and resources for other, often better options. People here are always going on and on about how women are naturally maternal, and so forth — if a 17-year old woman has nothing else to look forward to in her life than eventually having a baby, can you really be all that surprised that she wants to have a baby when she’s not yet ready? I mean, I’m just reaching an age where I can feel some little nugget of maternal instinct, and I’m like, “You know it would be cool to have a baby someday,” but I have enough going on and enough going for me that I don’t feel the need to go out and have a baby by any means possible right this very second. I think the problem is that that teen motherhood is the most attractive option for so many women — not because the community is too accepting of teen motherhood, but rather because these women feel like there is nothing else for them to work towards. Positive reinforcement (educational possibilities, scholarships, cultural events, etc — rather than negative reinforcement (really freaking hard and sucky life if you get pregnant) — should be the goal.
I can’t help wondering what is missing in a 16 year old girls life that she wants to get pregnant? A 16 year old is still a child.
I am thankful that none of these girls had abortions, but still saddened by this story.
The school had better order more BC and better yet, force them all to take it.
These girls desperately want to get pregnant and to have babies. Handing contraception to them is like handing a fire extinguisher to an arsonist.
I thought the pro-choicers would be all over these stupid girls for making a pregnancy pact but you’re supporting them and the stupid school system that’s giving them contraceptives on their lunch breaks. When are the beds in private rooms going to be set up for after school fun?
There was a pact*****According to TIME magazine, Principal Joseph Sullivan said: “All it took was a few simple questions before nearly half the expecting students, none older than 16, confessed to making a pact to get pregnant and raise their babies together.”
Jill said: Where is MSM decrying the failure of comprehensive sex ed? Ha
I saw this story tonight on the news and a man from Planned Parenthood claimed this proved that abstinence education was a failure. Yeah right. Comprehensive sex ed had nothing to do with it. (sarcasm alert*)
Jill, *The Boston Globe article you linked to is current inaccessible without a subscription.*
The school had better order more BC and better yet, force them all to take it.
Posted by: Carla at June 19, 2008 9:44 PM
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I’m so glad that we have Fundies here willing to tell us when can and cannot breed. Especially when those Fundies have a history of making correct personal decisions.
I thought the pro-choicers would be all over these stupid girls for making a pregnancy pact but you’re supporting them and the stupid school system that’s giving them contraceptives on their lunch breaks. When are the beds in private rooms going to be set up for after school fun?
Why do you think pro-choicers would be all over women for exercising their right to choose to be young mothers? The general consensus — me, Edyt, and Carla — seems to be that these women need more choices and better choices. If a 16-year old thinks that the best option for her is single motherhood ASAP, then is it better to make single motherhood even worse than her other options already are, or to make her other options better than single motherhood is?
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that Carla is pro-choice. I meant to point out that pro-choicers and pro-lifers alike don’t necessarily think these women are “stupid girls,” but rather that they need better things in their life to focus on.
Alexandra,
I think these schools tried to fix a hemorrhage with a band-aid and they are only now realizing it.
I agree that these girls need to have better choices. According to the TIME article, the prospects for the town they live in are grim. They need hope, and help making goals for themselves.
Edyt:
Accusing Jill of trying to shame these girls is unfounded. This is a HUGE news story and you want to blame the messenger ??????
Alexandria:
Yes, you’re exactly right. Love and devotion to Jesus Christ would be a great start.
Edyt: 8:05:
This case justifies my belief that if a woman is provided with a loving environment for her child, she’ll choose to have it rather than kill it.
Yet you would rather complain about teen pregnancy.
A “woman”, not a sixteen year old who shouldn’t be trying to get pregnant!!!
Don’t you realize that you make the problem worse when you create an unhealthy, counterproductive, negative environment for teens? All of a sudden, you’re upset because they’re not being PUNISHED badly enough for having sex at a young age. Heaven forbid they get off and actually relish having their children…
Who said anything about PUNISHMENT? Who said they shouldn’t relish having children? Who said we should create a negative environment for teens?
You are reading a lot more into this story than is there.
I, for one, am glad the school is offering ways to help the young girls once they become pregnant. Prevention is key of course, but once it’s done, it’s done. These young girls lives are going to be hard enough NOW that they have gotten pregnant. It’s not the school’s job to provide free day-care or to help these girls out, but they are. I think that is great. As for the contraception being provided without parental consent, I think THAT is a horrible idea. You can’t even get an aspirin in school without a permission slip, and YET you’re going to be handing out contraception? No no no…
Jill dear, when the people of Mass wish for you to speak for them or their children, I’m sure they will let you know. Hold your breath.
HisMan, I won’t disagree that many young women would probably get a lot out of greater religious involvement. I guess we probably differ because for me, involvement and interest in a variety of things is kind of the same as involvement in religious activities. Like, I don’t care if a high school girl is an avid runner or a cellist or sitting in church every day of the week — I think they’re all great and I think they all provide the opportunity for growth and healthy development.
Janet —
A “woman”, not a sixteen year old who shouldn’t be trying to get pregnant!!!
It’s perfectly natural for women to feel maternal urges at 16. That doesn’t mean that it’s the best thing, because our current society definitely is not set up in such a way that it’s advantageous for 16-year olds to be mothers. But it’s absurd to act like there is something wrong or stupid about these girls simply because they want to be pregnant. What we need to do is give them other options, so that they are less likely to actively pursue children before they are stable enough to care for them.
Elizabeth: Well said, O sensible one!
Wait, Janet, I’m confused. You seem to agree with Elizabeth, who seems to think that supporting these girls once they’ve already become pregnant is a good idea — but you said:
I thought the pro-choicers would be all over these stupid girls for making a pregnancy pact but you’re supporting them…
like it’s freaking insane that anyone would think that providing resources for teen mothers is a good idea.
Thanks Janet!
O Sensible one…hmmm..I like the way that sounds..
:)
That’s my 30 year old virgin son who will be marrying his 27 year old virgin fiance in July.
Posted by: HisMan at June 19, 2008 8:56 PM
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That’s what I’ll always regret…
I totally ruined my chance to have my future father-in-law discuss the status of my hymen on a public message board.
Dayuum!
No problem – just identify the fathers and they can pay all the care fees, and marry the girls for life..
One of the fathers was a 24 year old homeless man that the girl approached just to get pregnant.
One of the fathers was a 24 year old homeless man that the girl approached just to get pregnant.
:jaw hits floor:
Huh?!
I just heard a story about this on the news, and-big surprise here-they did it for the same reason every teenage girl who has failed to cultivate self-worth based on her own virtues and talents does anything (like wearing slutty clothes, trying to date a loser who’s way too old for her, sleeping around, cutting, etc…):
FOR ATTENTION.
Alexandra:
As I said, I think the school was misguided in its approach. I don’t approve of any high school clinic handing out contraceptives or giving pregnancy tests. I never have and never will. I don’t think teenagers should be having sex. (Now don’t all come down on me for once for that comment.)
I agree with Elizabeth, it is a good thing to try to help girls stay in school. BUT, I also think by providing the day-care center, the school made it too easy for these girls to make their little pact. Luckily the school figured out there was a problem and is trying to deal with it.
What is sad to me, is that most of the parents probably had no clue as to what was happening, because many had signed permission slips in advance to allow their girls to use the clinic for the school year. The TIME story said 150 pregnancy tests were administered during the school year. I don’t know if parents were notified, but I doubt it. These girls are minors. Their parents should have a right to know what’s going on. What about the school’s responsibility to the parents? The TIME article is enlightening. You may want to check it out if you haven’t read it already.
I heard a commentator this afternoon and he said he thinks that these girls were reaching out for someone/something to belong to. Most of them come from broken homes, dysfunctional families and hopeless home situations.
It’s like they were trying to ensure that someone would love them unconditionally.
They made the pact to have and RAISE these babies together.
I find it rather sad that they feel so alone, so at sea, that they are using these new little souls as anchors…God help them all.
Correction: (Now don’t all come down on me AT once for that comment.)
( Janet 10:50:)
Yes, I have a VERY low opinion of teenage girls. They were terrible when I was one, and my youngest sister is 17, and she and I spend a great deal of time together talking about just how terrible they were/are. That’s just what happens when you rely on everyone around you to validate you as a person instead of finding good things about yourself to feel proud of…yourself. Parent don’t teach things like that as they should though, and every demographic has a portion which try to get their self-esteem this way, i guess that it’s just that the portion of teen girls in relation to the whole is just a larger segment, so I tend to dislike them the most.
X,
I can understand your feelings about teenage girls. I just try to have sympathy for them, though, because they’re all just trying to figure it out, like we all were at one time.
Alexandra:
I didn’t address this part of your comment – some PC’rs seemed to be happy that at least the girls didn’t get abortions (kind of throwing it in our faces) instead of addressing the REAL issues. That is why I commented I was surprised that the PC’rs seemed to be supporting these girls.
Pshaw, I’ve ALWAYS had it figured out! :P
Nah. But I’ve had a hard life in all the right ways, and it’s difficult for me to keep in mind that my experiences are the minority, not the majority. I know patience is a virtue, but not one of mine, and most I reserve for the youngest of children (much to my husband’s dismay). If I ever do go back to Catholicism, I should try and have my husband sainted. He deserves it for putting up with me.
mk: 10:51:
They made the pact to have and RAISE these babies together.
It actually sounds like fun…. but not at 16 years old!
I wonder if any of the “Daddies” are around? No mention of them….
I find it rather sad that they feel so alone, so at sea, that they are using these new little souls as anchors…God help them all.
Amen!
Haha, X, I feel you on that one for SURE. I save all my patience for my little one. That’s probably why I’ll never find a husband. :)
X: (If I ever do go back to Catholicism), I should try and have my husband sainted. He deserves it for putting up with me.
Mine too! Lol! :)
Elizabeth 11:10: Haha, X, I feel you on that one for SURE. I save all my patience for my little one. That’s probably why I’ll never find a husband. :)
You will. You just need to find a little one!( Husband, that is.)
:)
Smart men enjoy smart, gutsy women. The majorit of men aren’t that bright, therefore, it takes longer for some women to find the appropriate man. :P
What I find really saddening about this whole thing is that these teenagers didn’t have the fondest clue of what they were getting into. Most of them view a baby as an accessory. They have no idea what it is like to have a whole night of no sleep those first few weeks you have a baby. They have no idea what it is like to have a whole new human being completely dependant on you for everything.
I applaud them for keeping their pregnancies, but I think them intentionally getting pregnant so they could all have matching babies is messed up. Children aren’t baby dolls and they aren’t accessories. They are living, breathing, human beings and people shouldn’t toy with them like this.
Is it any wonder they equate real, live babies to disposable baubles when thousands a day get thrown in the trash as if they were such? I’m trying very hard to be upset and aghast at this disappointing turn of events, but I find that all it does is reinforce how I’ve always felt.
I totally ruined my chance to have my future father-in-law discuss the status of my hymen on a public message board.
Dayuum!
Posted by: Laura at June 19, 2008 10:35 PM
What is wrong with you?
Excuse me, did I post her name?
Does anyone know who she is?
Here’s her name for your information: Cinderella Barbarella Winfrey Chase Rockefeller.
Google it and there’s a full size picture of her unbroken hymen on the site.
Are you happy now?
The point is I was explaining the principle that two very aweseome and faithful people can save themselves for each other.
Look if you can’t speak any truth or say anything good back, just please don’t comment on my posts.
What is sad to me, is that most of the parents probably had no clue as to what was happening, because many had signed permission slips in advance to allow their girls to use the clinic for the school year. The TIME story said 150 pregnancy tests were administered during the school year. I don’t know if parents were notified, but I doubt it. These girls are minors. Their parents should have a right to know what’s going on. What about the school’s responsibility to the parents?… check it out if you haven’t read it already.
Posted by: Janet at June 19, 2008 10:50 PM
But Janet, the consequences of having a clinic that “ratted” to parents would probably mean that the girls wouldn’t use it, thus either wouldn’t know they were pregnant and wouldn’t get prenatal care, or would get OTC tests (if they could afford them) and get no care and no info about pregnancy/health/nutrition – which at 16 and under is extremely important. Otherwise many more health problems with the baby – low birthweight, spina bifida, etc.
Side thought – if the parents were informed, my guess is there would have been fewer pregnant girls as parents took them for abortions.
The above are two consequences anti-choicers would be against – at least that’s the rhetoric heard. Is it that you haven’t thought this through, or that the condition of the born baby doesn’t matter?
Jill, you wrote above that Obama has “no interest in prevention”.
Could you explain what you mean by that please?
HisMan, you wrote: “That’s my 30 year old virgin son who will be marrying his 27 year old virgin fiance in July.”
How do you know they are virgins?
Jill dear, when the people of Mass wish for you to speak for them or their children, I’m sure they will let you know. Hold your breath.
Posted by: Sally
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Believe it or not, Sally, not everyone who lives in Massachusetts is a warped liberal. Some of us are actually conservative and agree with Jill! Of course, it goes without saying that as a Catholic conservative who lives in Massachusetts, I will *never* send my child to be corrupted by liberal educators in the public school. Quite frankly, it wouldn’t surprise me if her first day of Kindergarten were to consist of learning about sex, birth control, and the complete normalcy of having two mommies or two daddies! No thank you! My child will be homeschooled using a Catholic curriculum, as some of us here in Massachusetts do still believe in teaching our children morals, values, and obedience to God! Therefore, when *all* the people of Massachusetts wish for you, Sally, dear, to speak for us and our children, I’m sure we’ll let you know!
Phylo:12:06:
I’m not sure how I can be any clearer than what I’ve already stated.
I’m not an anti-choicer. I’m anti-abortion.
A school who lets parents know what is going on with their child is not “ratting” to parents. Who his ultimately the responsible caretaker of the child? The school or the parents? From the comments here tonight, obviously the jury is still out on that one.
Jill, please go out and read Spring’s Awakening by Frank Wedekind. If you want, I’ll show up at your next rally and give you my copy. Abstinence only education is ignorance only education, and I can honestly say that I applaud this school for being supportive of the pregnant girls. Do I agree with the girls getting pregnant for no reason other than the sake of doing it? No, but at least they’re able to carry on with their lives, and have a fighting chance at some sort of future.
Everyone,
I’m off to Florida for 2 weeks. I’ll miss you all. I’ll try to check in if possible.
Be good. Go easy on the Mods. Don’t talk about anything interesting while I’m gone…
MK
I believe though I have not looked it up that Obama intends to maintain or increase PP funding. Prevention is most of what PP does, much as some of you hate to admit it. If I am right that he intends to maintain or increase their funding, then it cannot be right to say that he has “no interest in prevention”.
In fact that’s pretty much another one of your obvious lies, right Jill?
Like the one about abortion causing breast cancer, and the one about RU486 being a dangerous drug? Like Patricia’s line about PP denying that abortion has risks?
God Speed MK!! :)
I was being sarcastic way up there. Hand out all the condoms and pills in the world and these pact girls didn’t want them. They wanted to be pregnant. I did read that the “Daddies” are all in their 20’s and one is a 24 year old homeless man. Gah!!!
So when the another group of girls makes a pregnancy pact lets say they are 12 year old girls oops I mean WOMEN….what to do, what to do???? Day care centers in elementary schools, more BC, more pregnancy tests??? Yes, Janet lets just roll in the beds and make it more convenient!!!
Is there no one talking to teens about waiting until marriage?? Go to band practice, sing in the choir, paint and draw and get your license and WAIT!!
Sorry, I learned the hard way from age 17 on and need to take a deep breath.
Firstly, PROSECUTE THE HELL OUT OF THE BASTARDS THAT HELPED THESE GIRLS DO THIS!!! I would seriously be fighting the urge to castrate these sickos with a rusty butter knife, but that means I actually care about my daughter, and she therefore would not be doing something like this just for love and attention.
Which brings me to my second point, which is, this is not the fault of sex ed. This is not the fault of a school clinic that wouldn’t notify parents. How can you blame the school when they wouldn’t be doing something so stupid if they actually HAD any parental involvement in the first place? Obviously these girls were not getting what they needed at home, whether that was just supervision, love, guidance, esteem, or some combination. This is just another symptom of the state of failing American families, and I don’t care what kind of families those are: traditional, single-parent, divorced/remarried, kids being raised by grandparents, etc. And I know many of you will get down on me for saying that, but keep in mind that one thing the article said was that this town is overwhelmingly Catholic, so just because you have a religious, two-parent background doesn’t mean you have a great family. I just hope these kids can break the cycle, but I doubt it under these circumstances.
Oh no! Those teens aren’t hiding their pregnancies! They’re not getting abortions! Those slutty girls. They should have been sent away and shamed instead of provided with day care centers and people who care about them.
Wow, Edyt…you totally missed Jill’s point about contraception education.
Because it’s an invalid point, Bethany. This has nothing to do with contraceptive education, or sex ed of any kind. You could’ve thrown all the contraceptives you wanted at these girls, or preached about abstinence until you’re blue in the face, and they wouldn’t have used the pills/condoms, or information. Maybe if motherhood hadn’t been presented as being so attractive to these girls, they wouldn’t have been so eager to become mothers, but if you all would actually read the story, and really listen to what it is saying instead of just being ready to get down on sex ed (which I’ve already said I do not agree with, for many reasons…I think bad things can happen with sex ed, but this is not one of those things for which sex ed can be blamed, I’m sorry, guys) you would’ve seen that these girls already had it in their minds that babies were going to solve all their problems, and nothing they were told (a girl they routinely accosted about her pregnancy and birth her freshman year remarked that the girls often told her how lucky she was to have a baby, despite her telling them that it was hard to feel loved when being screamed at by an infant awaiting a 3am feeding) was going to dissuade them.
This is just another example of what I have seen for years on end. Teenage girls who WANT to be pregnant, that’s the key word, WANT. No amount of sex ed or contraception will stop them from having babies.
You’re dealing with little girls living in fantasy worlds. Babies are cute little toys, you dress them, play with them, and you put them in the corner when you’re tired of playing with them.
What do we expect? We promote and glamorize illegitimacy. Don’t we gush over unmarried celebrities and their “bumps”? Doesn’t Madame Celebrity always look gorgeous? You don’t see her with swollen ankles, morning sickness, and stretch marks. She isn’t exhausted from pacing the floor all nite with a crying baby. She doesn’t sit in a crowded ER waiting room with a sick baby at 2 a.m.
These girls don’t realize that an 8+ figure bank account,15- 20 years of maturity, a lot of household help including nannies, and a father in the picture, seperates them and these women.
Are we surprised when girls and young women emulate glamorous stars? When haven’t they? Its as old as Hollywood. Why should we be surprised when they emulate illegitimacy, especially when it seems to have the seal of approval by society?
Years ago Ellen Goodman wrote an excellent column on this, and while I am no fan of Ms.Goodman’s I will always give credit where credit is due. She expressed the same concern.
She asked why women who truly were role models, women of true accomplishment, were not looked up to as examples. She asked why girls were more excited over Jerry Hall’s account of her first child’s conception than they were over Sally Ride’s space flight.(This is an old article!).
One of the Kennedy sisters, I believe it was Eunice Shriver, also discussed her experiences working with teenage mothers and stressed as well that these girls WANTED(emphasis hers) to be pregnant. They were looking for reasons not to have babies, how to say no, and apparently no one was giving them any.
This isn’t the first time I’ve heard of this kind of a “pact”. It won’t be the last. Sadly I can’t say this account of the high school in MA surprised me in the least.
If PP is all about prevention, then why don’t they like abstinence? Its because when practiced the Correct way, abstinence = no unintended pregnancy. No unintended pregnancies = no abortions. No abortions = NO $$$$$ for them!
Abstinence is about being able to wait for that special person who you KNOW wants to spend his or her life with YOU. Making that special night (wedding night) equally special.
Yes, but I think the story is more about the liberal media bias (and craziness – offering a solution of offering contraception without parental consent, when the girls didn’t even WANT to use contraception in the first place).
Edyt totally misses the point because she rushes to attack Jill with a strawman, saying that Jill must want to punish such girls by sending them away and shaming them, and that had absolutely nothing to do with Jill’s point in the least.
HisMan, you wrote: “That’s my 30 year old virgin son who will be marrying his 27 year old virgin fiance in July.”
How do you know they are virgins?
Posted by: SoMG at June 20, 2008 12:19 AM
_________________
Because SoMG, I do talk to my son and have a close relationship with him.
Since birth he has been raised to know God.
I know that his goal was to find a wife that was saving herself for marriage as he was.
He could have married a ton of other girls he dated, however, when he found out, usually by directly asking the question as to whether or not they had pre-marital sex, if they answered yes, he would end the relationship.
Norbert:
God bless you and your children for doing the right thing in a State filled with such liberal darkness. I used to love to go with my family to Cape Cod on summer vacation. Massachusetts
is such a beautiful and interesting State, however, it’s a shame what liberals have done there. Congratulations, Celtics!
HisMan,
I am grateful to hear about your son and his fiance!! That is so wonderful to read. It is disheartening at times to come here and see the evil that some call good.
As a mom of 3 sons and 1 daughter I intend to share the same message with them!! They are worth the wait. They honor God with their bodies by saving themselves.
Something I was never, ever taught.
Changing a legacy is never easy, but with God all things are possible. Indeed.
HisMan,
I pray that I too will be able to raise my children with the kind of moral decency that your son and future daughter-in-law adhere to. God love you and your family.
So they learned how to have sex and get pregnant
What’s the solution? Keep kids ignorant about sex and pregnancy? I mean, literally make sure that they don’t even know what sex is and how babies are made?
Most girls don’t set out to have babies at 14 or 15 — yes, even those of us who had good, informative sex ed. There’s some other underlying issue that made these girls want to do that. That’s what needs to be addressed, not the fact that they weren’t kept in the dark about the functioning of their own bodies.
My children know what sex is and where babies come from. They know about pregnancy by watching mom!! :)
They are also told sex is designed for marriage. The message is clear in our home.
Jen R,
My argument exactly, an underlying issue. One that will not be so simply addressed with contraception that the girls have absolutely no intention of using.
“Where is MSM decrying the failure of comprehensive sex ed”
Oh come on. You can’t be serious. You really think this is about failure of sex ed?
This is not a case of girls becoming sexually active, using contraceptives (as encouraged by sex ed), and having that contraception fail.
These girls GOT PREGNANT ON PURPOSE.
This has absolutely nothing to do with education, and everything to do with their psychological state and the attention, or lack thereof, they are getting at home.
Gloucester is a dying seaport town full of out-of-work fishermen who spend their days at the bars. Those that do have work are out at sea for days and weeks at a time. There isn’t much to do downtown other than loiter or drink.
These girls did not WANT to abstain and they did not WANT to use birth control, so this is one particular instance where BOTH methods of sex ed would have been completely inaffective.
Honestly, I can’t believe you reacted this way Jill, especially given all of your posts on how many parents coerce their children to abort. What if even a HANDFUL of these girls parents were notified – how many do you think would have pressured their daughters to have abortions? My guess would be plenty.
Their “pact”, though misguided for sure, represents everything you supposedly stand for… that sex is for making babies, and that regardless of one’s age or circumstance, they should accept the burden of parenting – and thats exactly what they’re doing.
I hope there are enough social workers in Gloucester to help them all – but I doubt it.
True, Mary. Contraception is a good thing to have available, but it’s not magic. :) It doesn’t fix everything.
And to be fair, I read the Boston Globe article and the school officials have a number of solutions in mind; the article just focused on contraception (presumably because that’s the most controversial).
Hmm . . . I wonder if this would be a front-page story if these were poor Latinas or African American girls . . .
He could have married a ton of other girls he dated, however, when he found out, usually by directly asking the question as to whether or not they had pre-marital sex, if they answered yes, he would end the relationship.”
If his views are anything like yours, that’s probably good he ended the relationship with the normal women early.
Why would anyone knock two virgins getting married??
:scratches head:
Melissa – did it mention any of their races? There is a significant, and growing hispanic population in Gloucester. I don’t think I read anywhere that they were all white, but correct me if I’m wrong.
Regardless, its a socioeconmic and psychological issue, not a race issue. There are PLENTY of poor white communities who suffer the same fates as minorities – and as the economy continues to deflate, there will be even more.
Amanda,
You’re certainly correct that its not a racial issue, but I don’t agree its a socioeconomic one.
This afflicts teenagers and young women from ALL socioeconomic levels. These young women may well end up welfare dependent and poor because of illegitimacy, but they did not always start out that way.
Also children repeat the pattern. The child of a single mother is more likely to also be a single mother, which is the pattern we see in many communities. The poverty is perpetuated.
Mary
The thing about Gloucester though is that unlike inner city populations where single-parenthood as become the norm, I think a lot of times the Dads are still around but are not active parents. You walk in to any bar downtown in the middle of the afternoon (where bars in most towns aren’t even open) and its PACKED with middle aged men.
Also, because the fishing industry has gone to hell, a lot of the boats are going out to the middle of the ocean or up the coast of Canada – so they’re gone longer and making less money than they used to. So in this case, I’m sure plenty of these girls parents are still married, but the economic situation is causing them to seek attention and validation in the wrong places.
Why would anyone knock two virgins getting married??
:scratches head:
Posted by: Carla at June 20, 2008 11:18 AM
Not knocking their marriage. Knocking that they wanted to be virgins when they got married. Shouldn’t be illegal or anything, but I’m scratching my head a bit too. To each his own, I guess. I doubt too many people on their death beds regret the sex they had when they were younger.
Well Hal, I hopefully won’t be on my deathbed anytime soon, but I do very much regret the sex I had before I was married, and I remember at least one other person on this blog saying the same thing (I don’t want to mention the name). It may be rare, but there are some of us.
I doubt that many people wish they had slept with more people on their wedding night.
I think it’s the most amazing thing and I am proud of HisMan for teaching his children God’s vision for sex.
Amanda 12:01PM
I’m sorry but I just can’t agree its socioeconomic. I’ve seen some of the poorest areas you can imagine and illegitimacy was not a problem.
I agree these girls are seeking validation and attention, but I doubt it has to do with socioeconomics and likely some underlying psychological need. We also expect these girls to think and reason like the mature women they are not.
I must agree with the article Ellen Goodman wrote years ago, a big eye opener for me, that our society promotes and glamorizes illegitimacy, while women who truly should be role models are not. Young girls emulating Hollywood stars is as old as Hollywood. Our society has also given its blessing to illegitimacy. Our children are getting the message.
Ok Bobby, fair enough. The world is full of diverse range of people, and I should be more accepting it seems.
I’m sorry for your regrets. Give yourself a break, though.
Hal 12:07PM
Unless they’re dying of AIDS or hepatitis C.
The pro-lifers on here come on here and say, “Oh pregnancy is only an inconvenience” and how easy it is to be pregnant and have a baby and what cute and special little bundles of joy, gifts from God babies are.
Are you kidding me? Babies are just small people who can’t take care of themselves and are dependent on you for everything. And they grow up into kids, and then spoiled teenagers who get knocked up on purpose and then you have to deal with that.
I don’t think anyone who want’s a “baby” should have one. Cause duh they grow up. Yeah who doesn’t want a little baby, but then most parents seem to get bored when they become kids and give up. No one ever says, “I want a teenager.”
Maybe if the pro-lifers just looked at things realistically we wouldn’t have these problems.
” I’m sorry for your regrets. Give yourself a break, though.”
Nah, it’s not like I have a ritualistic “punch myself in the face” every morning as a form of corporal mortification for my past regrets… although, hmmmm… :)
Jess,
I agree with part of what you said. As a prolifer and having children starting at age 30, I was in NO WAY prepared for what was in store! Yes, a baby is what you get and then a whiny fussy 2 year old, a sassy 7 year old a tweenager with an attitude…but that’s what happens when babies grow up and I WON’T be giving up on them the way my parents gave up on me and my siblings.
Who has ever said “Oh, pregnancy is only an
inconvenience?”
Hal,
I regret all of sexual experiences I had before I got married.
Bobby, I don’t regret having sex with my with my boyfriend, even though we aren’t together anymore. There are a few other guys out there I would like to have sex with before I settle down.
And Bobby, your wife knows that she is the absolute best women in your eyes or else you wouldn’t be with her. And whoever I end up with will know that they were the best, tops, in every category.
Carla, I’m pretty sure it was either jasper or truthseeker, they’re like the same person to me. And go back maybe a year and Jill wrote a topic on how pro-aborts are turing women week by saying some women can’t psychically handle pregnancy.
And Carla, if you don’t mind me saying so (do I feel a “ban” coming on?) at least you know your husband married you for your good looks and shinning personality and not your virginity.
P.S. When are you having your baby? You said a few weeks ago you wanted another. No time like the present!
Jess – it was John Lewandowski who said that – not HisMan or Jasper.
He was a vile, angry man- and he doesn’t post here anymore because it was too hard for him to resist being vile and angry.
He could have married a ton of other girls he dated, however, when he found out, usually by directly asking the question as to whether or not they had pre-marital sex, if they answered yes, he would end the relationship.
Just flat-out end the relationship at a “yes”? No room for explanations? So much for redemption and forgiveness…
My best friend recently graduated from a Christian college and is very religious, and she married a man she met and dated at college. They were married by a favorite professor they had shared, and during the ceremony he said that he had seen the two of them grow together through some very difficult times. Based on previous discussions I’d had with my friend, I’m pretty sure the “difficult time” involved the man, in a moment of weakness, having sex with another woman (my friend was a virgin when she married, and her husband had intended to be, whether he actually was or not). I think that if that was the case, their relationship was probably stronger for it, because they had gone through something less than ideal for either of them and had been confronted with flaws they both considered “absolute,” and were able to move on and build a life together anyway.
Hi Jess,
My husband and I weren’t virgins when we married. In fact I can hardly believe he married a woman who had an abortion. Anyway, we came to Christ together and repented of our pasts. He is an amazing man and I am blessed.
Um…about a baby…I am pushing 43. I WANT one but don’t know if that’s going to happen. :) Adoption?
Well Alexandra I certainly hope they weren’t dating when he had his moment of weakness. In my opinion, people who cheat once often cheat again, and forgiveness usually just confirms that their behavior is alright.
But yes, I have heard of some men who will refuse to marry a woman who has been raped, and I mean Christian men, not the radical Muslims I’m sure someone is thinking of.
Cue the virgin\whore complex. So some kids got pregnant. If you’re pro-life the question should be what can we do to help them now that the deed is done. The time for placing blame ended long ago.
Carla, why don’t you get a puppy? You can adopt one from the ASPCA.
Alexandra – I agree, but its his loss for dumping a girl for that reason alone. If a guy ever said that to me, I’d tell him to make sure the door hit his judgemental virgin a$$ on the way out. Never been an issue though, and since I think I’m with my “one”, I doubt it ever would be.
But anyway, most of the teen moms I dealt with were raised in strict latino Catholic homes. Half of their parents thought they were God-fearing virgins, the same as HisMan thinks his kids are God-fearing virgins. LOL. Wishful thinking most of the time. One of them was even so convinced that his daughter would never do such a thing that he accused his daughter’s boyfriend of raping her.
Puppy or baby?? Wow. They both are a lot of work. :)
I think I will wait a couple of more years and see where we’re at. What I mean by that is I won’t have a 2 year old then!!
Amanda, same with a lot of my friends, especially the Catholics. Their parents think they’re virgins, they’ve already gotten pregnant, had an abortion/miscarriage. My Mom on the other hand, was convinced I was having sex three years before I actually did anything.
Half of their parents thought they were God-fearing virgins, the same as HisMan thinks his kids are God-fearing virgins. LOL. Wishful thinking most of the time.”
Never thought of that. They might be telling our friend HisMan only what he wants to hear. We’ve seen hints that he has a temper, they probably don’t want to awaken it.
Believe it or not, Sally, not everyone who lives in Massachusetts is a warped liberal. Some of us are actually conservative and agree with Jill! Of course, it goes without saying that as a Catholic conservative who lives in Massachusetts, I will *never* send my child to be corrupted by liberal educators in the public school. Quite frankly, it wouldn’t surprise me if her first day of Kindergarten were to consist of learning about sex, birth control, and the complete normalcy of having two mommies or two daddies! No thank you! My child will be homeschooled using a Catholic curriculum, as some of us here in Massachusetts do still believe in teaching our children morals, values, and obedience to God! Therefore, when *all* the people of Massachusetts wish for you, Sally, dear, to speak for us and our children, I’m sure we’ll let you know!
Posted by: Norbert at June 20, 2008 1:29 AM
…………………………………….
I wouldn’t dream of imposing my child rearing experience upon the fine folks of Mass. Odd that you would accuse me of such.
If you must bring religion into it, it is pretty clear that this Catholic community has done an abysmal job of motivating girls to aspirations beyond gestating. Education of children is the responsibility of the parents afterall isn’t it? Self esteem and achievement goals are nurtured at home are they not? Hopefully you will keep that in mind when you are homeschooling.
A few of my ‘liberal’ ancestors founded several institutions of higher learning in your neck of the woods. Too bad your child won’t have the opportunity of attending one of them. Being that they do not teaching Catholic curriculum. @@
Yeah Jess – one of the most awkward moments of my life… when I was 19 and living in Brooklyn with 3 other girls – one of whom had already had 2 abortions and had two more when I was living with her. Her mom was visiting one weekend and found my birth control pills in the bathroom vanity. I was in my bedroom, but could hear her lecturing my roommate in the kitchen about what kind of horrible influence it would have on her to live with girls who were sexually active and asking if the rest of us mocked her for saving herself for marriage. I had to avoid seeing her or talking to her for the rest of the weekend she was staying with us because of how badly I just wanted to say “ohhhh if you only knew”.
One would think HisMan knows his children better than we do.
“Never thought of that. They might be telling our friend HisMan only what he wants to hear. We’ve seen hints that he has a temper, they probably don’t want to awaken it.”
Hal – I know wayyyy too many people who grew up afraid of their parents tempers to go to them when they need help or advice…including my Dad. My grandfather was a drunk and prone to rages – he quit drinking when I was born, but that was too late to repair the damage to my dad and my aunts and uncles. My dad’s worst fear was perpetuating that, so he always told me that I could tell him ANYTHING, and I wouldn’t get in trouble as long as I went to him first if I needed help. This came in handy a few times in high school when my friends would drink too much and I’d need to call for a ride home. Thank God, my dad doesn’t have the same kind of obsession with my hymen that HisMan does about his daughters’… so those types of chats only happen with Mom. =)
It’s not an obsession with hymen and you know it Amanda. It’s being a Godly counter cultural parent who vows to love and protect their children and see to their best interests.
When you have a babay of your own maybe you will know what I mean.
Carla, I don’t think you were here yet, but
a while back, HisMan called a bunch of us sluts because he went on a whole tangent about virginity and hymens and a bunch of girls chimed in saying they’d probably broken theirs doing gymnastics or horseback riding – NOT having sex.
Ok, then.
I really do admire a daddy that loves and cherishes his family so much even though so many people seem to disagree with it. Hhhhmmmmmm.
Happy Friday, Amanda!!
Jess: And Carla, if you don’t mind me saying so (do I feel a “ban” coming on?) at least you know your husband married you for your good looks and shining personality and not your virginity.
Jess, there’s nobody really like you here. You’re unique. Delightfully uncontrolled. : )
Good point, though – Carla really does “shine.”
……
whoever I end up with will know that they were the best, tops, in every category.
Is that really possible? Let’s say you end up with the best person in the world for you. Can they be the best in every category?
Hi Doug,
Thanks. You have a Carla…I bet she shines too! :)
Jess – it was John Lewandowski who said that – not HisMan or Jasper.
He was a vile, angry man- and he doesn’t post here anymore because it was too hard for him to resist being vile and angry.
Posted by: Amanda at June 20, 2008 12:45 PM
OH-OH. I was supposed to go out drinking and wenching with him….
mk: Have fun!
This goes well with your blog about Baby Borrowers. Maybe the show can help stem this trend of teen pregnancy?
One would think HisMan knows his children better than we do.
I agree, Carla. I’m always uncomfortable with speculation about the truth of other people’s statements about their own lives. Of course there’s a chance that any of us are lying, or that any of us have been lied to — so of course there’s a chance that HisMan’s son isn’t a virgin. But I’m about as uncomfortable with being like, “Yeah, sure he’s a virgin, he probably just doesn’t want to make you angry” as I am when people say things like, “Yeah, sure your boyfriend isn’t just using you for sex, he probably is only dating you because you sleep with him.” Some years into our relationship I’m pretty sure that he’s not just in it for the sex, and thirty years into his son’s life HisMan is pretty sure that his son is a virgin, and I don’t really see much value in poking and prodding about whether the person is deluded. It’s not like it’s unthinkable that my boyfriend loves me or that HisMan’s son is a virgin, after all — which is what such incredulity implies, which I find rude and unnecessary.
I do know quite a few people who were having sex when their parents were convinced they weren’t, but I also know quite a few people who WEREN’T having sex when their parents were convinced they weren’t.
Accusing Jill of trying to shame these girls is unfounded. This is a HUGE news story and you want to blame the messenger ??????
Janet, she’s not the “messenger.” TIME magazine and all the other media sources that exposed the story are the messengers. Jill, like other bloggers, is a commentator. I just think she’s being a hypocrite because instead of being glad that they chose to give birth rather than have abortions, she’s blabbing on about sex ed and contraceptives.
Xalisae is right. This has nothing to do with contraceptives or sex ed. It has to do with what Amanda was pointing out – a small, depressing town, where these girls know they’re not going to amount to much more than being mothers. So why not create a bond to keep their friendship together and do the only thing they think they can – make babies.
I think it’s fantastic that this school has provided for these women (and yes, they are women. If you’re old enough to have a baby, you’re a woman, no matter how immature you may be) so that they can at least get their diplomas. Jill seems not to care about this awesome tidbit, which makes it possible for more children to be cared for. Instead, she’d rather shame these girls for having teenage pregnancies.
That’s shameful in itself, and not very pro-life.
If you are old enough to have a baby you’re a woman.
11? 12? 13? Not girls, women. Got it, Edyt.
Edyt 12:15pm
These girls know they won’t amount to much more than being mothers?
Why not? They have access to education. They have access to transportation. Instead of planning pregnancies they can plan their futures, such as going to college and bettering their lives.
How often do we hear of people(legally) coming to this country from poverty we can’t even comprehend(these girls have no concept of real poverty and depressing circumstances), unable to speak English, who excel academically and go on to higher education and well paying jobs?
As Ellen Goodman brilliantly pointed out years ago, our society sends girls the message that illegitimacy is glamorous, acceptable, and easy, and they are getting the message loud and clear.
Thought this was interesting. Age of consent laws from state to state.
http://www.coolnurse.com/consent.htm
Age of consent laws are there to stop young people from being exploited by adults BUT what about a crew of young girls wanting to get pregnant?
I still say they are troubled and I hope they get more help than daycare. I am happy you think that it’s so fantastic, Edyt. Do you not see ANYTHING WRONG with this picture??
Also, if the age of consent in a state is 18 then how can condoms be handed out to 13 and 14 year olds?
Edyt, You can call Jill a commenter if your journalism background tells you to, but Jill’s “the messenger” for me, because I don’t read every media source out there like you do.
Edyt:I think it’s fantastic that this school has provided for these women (and yes, they are women. If you’re old enough to have a baby, you’re a woman, no matter how immature you may be) so that they can at least get their diplomas. Jill seems not to care about this awesome tidbit, which makes it possible for more children to be cared for. Instead, she’d rather shame these girls for having teenage pregnancies. That’s shameful in itself, and not very pro-life..
Who’s not very pro-life?????
Who is paying the taxes to get this fantastic program up and running?
Yeah, right, 12 year olds are old enough for a baby. Do you think these girls will be happy in 5 years when their friends are graduating college and starting careers and they are taking their kids to kindergarten? Maybe some will, but I bet the majority may have regrets. Do we know how many have boyfriends who will be able to help support their children? Or is that not important because boys aren’t important and the school is doing such a GREAT job?
How can you read Jill’s mind that she doesn’t care?
Jill said: : Where is MSM decrying the failure of comprehensive sex ed? Ha. And will the school take a 2nd look at its promotion of teen sex and parenthood? Ha.
Instead, MSM and the school are incredibly focused on the only solution they can think of: potentially offering contraceptives without parental consent. They apparently didn’t read their own story. These girls got pregnant on purpose. They didn’t want contraceptives. Idiotic liberals.
Read this 900 word Boston Globe article, which promotes handing out contraceptives at GHS due to its “spike in teen pregnancy” without ever once mentioning the pregnancy pact.
Looking at the last part of Jill’s commentary, I’d say Jill is telling the school system that THEY failed these girls. After all, these are only girls – not grown women.
Carla:4:17: I still say they are troubled and I hope they get more help than daycare. I am happy you think that it’s so fantastic, Edyt. Do you not see ANYTHING WRONG with this picture??
Also, if the age of consent in a state is 18 then how can condoms be handed out to 13 and 14 year olds?
Silly, Carla, don’t you know that in the Land of Reproductive Healthcare, they have their own set of laws?
Choice rules!
I think this program in MA is FANTASTIC (or is that FANATICAL?) too, because after all, kids have to have sex, just like they have to eat and sleep and exercise! They will lose their minds if they don’t. I have great idea, they should build summer sex camps where little girls and boys could learn all about the birds and the bees in a relaxing outdoor setting. Sounds FANTASTIC to me! What do you think?
Mary: 4:05: Excellent point. I missed that line!
Silly me. You are right Janet.
Teenagers can be taught no self control. Zero. They are totally incapable of controlling themselves so summer sex camp it is!!
Where can I sign up my 11 year old man?
Carla: Where can I sign up my 11 year old man?
You’re cracking me up!!! Lol! :)
Carla —
Also, if the age of consent in a state is 18 then how can condoms be handed out to 13 and 14 year olds?
The age of consent is the age at which you can have sex with an adult, not the age at which you can have sex. It exists to prevent adults from taking advantage of adolescents, not to prevent adolescents from having sex. It’s not illegal for a 15-year old to have sex with a 15-year old; rather, the age of consent recognizes the imbalance of power that naturally exists when you have an adult and a minor together, and (clumsily) identifies a point at which that imbalance of power becomes rape.
These little morons need to watch The Baby Borrowers. Did the dads know about this pact or is the lacrosse team really depressed right now?
New poll/Old poll
The new poll question is up and has to do with last week’s Gloucester High School pregnancy pact story: What would you do if your teen attended a high school where some girls made a pact to get pregnant? Pick…
Alexandra,
The age of consent is the age when the law says you can agree to have sex. It says so right on the website.
Where does it say that is the age you can have sex with an adult??
Noooooo….we simply cannot prevent adolescents from having sex now can we?
11? 12? 13? Not girls, women. Got it, Edyt.
Yep, Carla, if you’re menstruating and having sex, making decisions that could lead to pregnancy, you’re a woman. There are some very immature old women who also make horrible decisions for their lives, and who am I to judge?
These girls know they won’t amount to much more than being mothers?
Mary, please read the story. It will make more sense to you if you do. Amanda also provided some more information about that particular town, which also sheds more light on its circumstances and why those women would react that way.
How often do we hear of people(legally) coming to this country from poverty we can’t even comprehend(these girls have no concept of real poverty and depressing circumstances), unable to speak English, who excel academically and go on to higher education and well paying jobs?
Plenty. But they also see America as a land of opportunity in a way these girls may not. They’re jaded, so to say.
As Ellen Goodman brilliantly pointed out years ago, our society sends girls the message that illegitimacy is glamorous, acceptable, and easy, and they are getting the message loud and clear.
I think that’s an excellent point. Jill has also been responsible for that, for her loving posts of teen pregnancies such as Britney Spears’ little sister (I don’t remember her name…w/e) and Nicole Richie. In Hollywood at the moment, pregnancy is glamorous. I wouldn’t necessarily say illegitimacy is glamorous, but pregnancy and motherhood certainly has been glossed over in our popular tabloids.
However, I would not wish to push an alternative in which women are shamed for being pregnant. I think (or at least hope) that we’ll eventually reach a happy middle ground in which illegitimacy is no longer desired nor shunned, yet merely accepted and then we can all move on with our lives without pointing and shouting about the whole thing.
I still say they are troubled and I hope they get more help than daycare. I am happy you think that it’s so fantastic, Edyt. Do you not see ANYTHING WRONG with this picture??
Carla,
Certainly. The economy is poor, these girls and their families are suffering, these girls feel trapped and alone, and need access to more opportunities and REASONS to succeed.
On the other hand, maybe all they wanted was to become mothers. Lots of women are like that. One of my friends got married straight out of high school to the first guy that knocked her up because her only dream was to get married and have kids. Another friend, a brilliant mathematician, said if she wasn’t married by the age of 30, she was planning on being artificially inseminated because she never wanted to go through life without having kids.
So maybe there’s something mentally wrong, maybe there are just a lack of opportunities, maybe they really truly want to be mothers. I don’t know and you don’t know, and none of the girls were interviewed, so we can’t hear it from them directly.
If you think there might be something wrong with them, then don’t speculate. Go ask them yourself.
Janet,
You can call Jill a commenter if your journalism background tells you to, but Jill’s “the messenger” for me, because I don’t read every media source out there like you do.
I’d suggest you start doing so. The news is so much more interesting when you read the whole article, and not just the bits and pieces Jill snips out to support her cause. Plus, it’s a big world out there, and there are always interesting news stories out there. My favorite is the science section at the BBC. :)
Who is paying the taxes to get this fantastic program up and running?
Not you. Most likely it’s the parents who live in the school district. Which is probably a good investment, since they now do not have to hire babysitters to watch their grandkids. They can have the school do it for them!
Yeah, right, 12 year olds are old enough for a baby. Do you think these girls will be happy in 5 years when their friends are graduating college and starting careers and they are taking their kids to kindergarten? Maybe some will, but I bet the majority may have regrets. Do we know how many have boyfriends who will be able to help support their children? Or is that not important because boys aren’t important and the school is doing such a GREAT job?
First of all, they’re not 12. They’re probably around 14-16. (Sophomores, remember?) Perhaps some will have regrets. Perhaps some won’t. I did stuff when I was a teen that I regret, but eh, it happened. You make the best of the life you have. Are you suggesting that they shouldn’t give birth? Because there seem to be an awful lot of you who are appalled by the teen pregnancy rate at this school, and I’m willing to bet that if abortion is made illegal, that rate will be a lot higher. Prepare yourself to see a lot more high school nurseries.
How can you read Jill’s mind that she doesn’t care?
Hehe. Just a hunch based on this post and many many others…
Looking at the last part of Jill’s commentary, I’d say Jill is telling the school system that THEY failed these girls. After all, these are only girls – not grown women.
And how, exactly, did the school fail these girls? Should part of its education have planned for pregnancy pacts? Perhaps they should have banned pregnancy pacts as part of school policy.
You know, the article wasn’t entirely clear about the sex education in this school. Did it end before freshman year? After? Perhaps these girls were not provided with sex ed at all. Not that sex ed would have made a difference. Sex ed is about preventing pregnancy and STDs. I highly doubt any sex ed teachers have had to worry about teens forming pregnancy pacts up until recently.
And no, they are not grown women, but they are making adult choices, and they deserve to be treated like adult women. You should know that being an adult comes with responsibility, and I don’t see why we shouldn’t hold them to that responsibility simply because they are teens. You know, actions have consequences and all.
Janet –
P.S. I don’t think sex had very much to do with it either. If a woman wants to get pregnant, she’ll do it any way she can, even if that means artificial insemination.
These women probably had little infertility problems at their young age, so they didn’t have to resort to such a measure.
However, I highly doubt they were nymphomaniacs who forgot to use a condom. They were trying to get pregnant. They were not just sleeping around for fun.
“I’d suggest you start doing so. The news is so much more interesting when you read the whole article, and not just the bits and pieces Jill snips out to support her cause. Plus, it’s a big world out there, and there are always interesting news stories out there. My favorite is the science section at the BBC. :)”
Janet, be wary of the MSM out there, many of them think like Eydt and are very left-winged biased. The BBC, NPR, NBC and the like hate conservatives in general. Jill is an an excellent journalist and writer. She gets right to the point and cuts through the BS.
So Edyt, you are absolutely fine with 16 year old WOMEN, sleeping around with 20 year old men, trying to get pregnant? One man was 24 and homeless.
How do you know their families are suffering? How do you know they are suffering? How do you know these girls feel trapped and alone? How do you know they really want to be mommies in their fantastic situation of day care at high school?
Let’s both ask them.
Oh, one more thing.
If you are 11 and menstruating and not having sex are you a girl??
If you are 11, menstruating and having sex you are a woman??
Edyt, 12:08am
Thank you but I did read the story. The difficulties in these girls’ lives don’t hold a candle to situations I have seen and what many people immigrating to this country and succeeding have experienced.
The immigrants see opportunity? Do you suppose maybe because its there and these young girls are squandering it?
They’re going to high school right? They have access to education. Myself and other people involved in overseas missions(non-religious) have seen children begging for pencils to go to school, sharing school supplies, and scratching their lessons in the sand. Like I said, these girls, as well as most of us, have no concept of real poverty or depressing circumstances. These girls have opportunities the children I mentioned can’t even hope for.
Maybe immigrants who excel do so because they truly are “jaded”, by war, poverty, deprivation, hunger, and brutality.
For whatever reason these girls throw these opportunities down the toilet, its their own doing. By the way, I have seen this happen repeatedly over the years to young women who have every opportunity in life, so I don’t believe it has anything to do with economic circumstances. I’m convinced there is an underlying psychological issue.
Quite honestly Edyt this story doesn’t surprise me in the least. I’ve heard of such “pacts” in the past.
Ironically Ellen Goodman wrote that article a good 20+ years ago so this is nothing new, and certainly nothing has changed.
No I don’t want to see the other extreme either, but I do agree with Goodman, of whom I am no fan, that promoting and glamorizing illegitimacy has had dire consequences. Goodman well pointed out the emphasis should be on women of accomplishment which sadly it isn’t, not some rock star’s girlfriend discussing the conception of their first child.
Gloucester, “not a story about sex education”? Ha
USA Today questions today whether there was a pregnancy pact at Gloucester High School in MA that resulted in at least 8 of 17 girls all under the age of 16 – likely Freshmen – getting pregnant simultaneously on purpose….
“I’d suggest you start doing so. The news is so much more interesting when you read the whole article, and not just the bits and pieces Jill snips out to support her cause. Plus, it’s a big world out there, and there are always interesting news stories out there. My favorite is the science section at the BBC. :)”
Janet, be wary of the MSM out there, many of them think like Eydt and are very left-winged biased. The BBC, NPR, NBC and the like hate conservatives in general. Jill is an an excellent journalist and writer. She gets right to the point and cuts through the BS.
Posted by: jasper at June 23, 2008 2:51 AM
Thanks, Jasper, I know Jill’s good.
Condescension is so special, isn’t it? I always enjoy it.
Oh, one more thing.
If you are 11 and menstruating and not having sex are you a girl??
If you are 11, menstruating and having sex you are a woman??
Posted by: Carla at June 23, 2008 6:50 AM
I’m sure Carla…. like,you…. like, didn’t know????
“I used to get up in the morning and go to an office. Now I get up and go to a plane. My kids still don’t care where I am. They just know both parents work in their household, and as long as we’re back for bedtime, they could care less.”
~ Michelle Obama, speaking at a National Partnership for Women & Families luncheon June 20, as quoted by CNSNews.com, today
What a role model. She’s speaking to the the NPWF, and probably thinks she’s hilarious! The REAL question is: Why doesn’t she care? Wait ’til she’s a Grandma who never see’s her grandkids ’cause her children are too busy working to come see her. It will happen, I’m sure.
The news is so much more interesting when you read the whole article, and not just the bits and pieces Jill snips out to support her cause.
Jill always posts links to the complete article and I always read the whole story before commenting. I highly recommend it.
You know, actions have consequences and all.
You mean, like if you have sex whether or not you use protection, there is always a chance you can get pregnant? You mean like those kinds of consequences?
Like, you’re right, Janet. Like duh, what was I like thinking??
As Ellen Goodman brilliantly pointed out years ago, our society sends girls the message that illegitimacy is glamorous, acceptable, and easy, and they are getting the message loud and clear.
Huh? Really? I must have missed that memo when somebody told me I was “bastardizing” my child by having her alone AND the one about it being so easy when I was getting crapped on at 3 in the morning. Anybody who REALLY thinks that is delusional, and will be brought back down to reality once they actually become a mother.
However, I don’t think having a daycare for mothers trying to complete their degree on campus does this. I really don’t think shaming these girls so it looks “less glamorous” for the general population is the way to go. I’m pretty sure after these girls have their baby and are trying to balance their lack of sleep with homework and a screaming child, they might spread the word to their friends that it’s not such a good idea to do things the hard way.
Elizabeth,
Ellen Goodman was referring to the celebrities who make illegitimacy look so glamorous and easy and how these young girls are influenced by this.
She was distressed that women who should truly be role models were not looked up too.
She pointed out that these girls don’t realize that these stars also have nannies, 8+figure bank accounts, fathers in the pictures, 20 more years of maturity and a staff of professionals who make sure they always look gorgeous. These aren’t women who will sit in the waiting room of the local ER at 3am with a screaming baby or struggle from one welfare check to the next.
This sadly is all to often the fate of these young girls who will follow their examples.
I’ve worked with these girls Elizabeth, and you are all too often faced with girls and young women who are little girls living in fantasy worlds. We cannot expect the 14 year old to think and reason as the mature woman she isn’t. Sometimes you can’t expect it of the 25 year old either!
When our society sends these girls the message that illegitimacy is acceptable, when they watch Madame Celebrity gush on the joys of single motherhood, we can’t be too surprised at the end result.
I don’t support stigmatizing, but I don’t support glamorizing it either.
Yes these girls will be brought back to reality, and they and their children will pay a price in the process.
Carla,
I consider the start of menstruation to be the beginning of womanhood, so no, an 11 year old does not need to be having sex to be considered a woman.
My main point was that if a person is going to make adult decisions (having sex with the risk of getting pregnant) then they should be treated as an adult.
Mary, I think you misunderstood what I meant when I said they were jaded. I wasn’t speaking about immigrants, I was speaking about the girls. To immigrants, our country is filled with opportunities they don’t have access to in their own countries. I’ve seen this first hand. However, I know I grew up thinking I “deserved” things, and it’s not a stretch to think that these girls might also think so. They don’t see the opportunities in front of their faces because they’ve always been there. See what I mean?
I don’t want to speak for them, but knowing my peers, who… especially in college… wasted their lives away with drugs and alcohol rather than get a worthy education, I know that many American-born people believe they can just turn their lives around whenever they want.
Anyway, I can’t say for sure if the economy or if psychological issues have anything to do with it. I think wanting to have children, even as an teenager or a young child is a natural! I live in a very family-oriented neighborhood, and I’ve seen many toddlers pushing miniature baby strollers next to their mother’s real stroller. :)
So I can’t quite say they have a psychological complex. Wanting to have kids is a biological process, not a disorder. We just find it odd in the realm of acceptable societal norms. In our society, it’s “wrong” to get pregnant as a teen. But with movies like Juno and all the celebrity pregnancies, I’d say it’s more along the lines of fandom than psychological disorder. Goodman may have been right, but I still don’t think it’s better to make illegitimacy shameful. That won’t help anyone.
Elizabeth,
You mean, like if you have sex whether or not you use protection, there is always a chance you can get pregnant? You mean like those kinds of consequences?
Exactly! :)
Hi Edyt,
I am aware you were referring to the girls as “jaded”. I just pointed out it was immigrants who come to this country truly “jaded” by poverty, war, and hardship we can’t even comprehend.
You’re certainly correct, these young girls all too often do not realize what opportunities they are throwing down the toilet, and that is what has frustrated me for so many years. How many times I wanted to shake these girls and ask why?
We Americans do take so much for granted while immigrants will view what we take for granted as blessing beyond their wildest dreams, which explains why they come to this country and excel.
I agree with you Edyt concerning the stigmatizing of illegitimacy. I remember many a “shotgun” wedding in my day, as if anyone was fooled. Also people were pushed into marriages that were doomed from the start, my sister and cousin being two of them. Young girls were forced to give children up for adoption.
Wanting children can be natural. I entertained more than a few fantasies as a preteen and teenager. That’s why I’m convinced these girls can be so suseptible to the glamorizing of illegitimacy and why our society is sending the wrong message while all the while crying and wringing its hands about illegitimacy.
Ellen Goodman hit the nail on the head with her article when she said these young girls need positive female role models, not celebrities gushing on the joys of single motherhood.
EDYT: 8:17: My main point was that if a person is going to make adult decisions (having sex with the risk of getting pregnant) then they should be treated as an adult.
So if a child drives his father’s car, he should be treated as an adult. It makes about as much sense as your scenario. You can’t magically make a child into an adult, when they are not an adult. An eleven year old boy is not a man just because he may have premature facial hair.
————–
Edyt: 8:25: I think wanting to have children, even as an teenager or a young child is a natural! I live in a very family-oriented neighborhood, and I’ve seen many toddlers pushing miniature baby strollers next to their mother’s real stroller. :)
A toddler pushing a stroller has no real desire to have a baby. They cannot comprehend what that entails. Pretty much the same thing with a teen. They WANT to be just like Mommy, pushing a stroller. Beyond that, they haven’t a clue.
Did you really want to have your own children when you were a teenager? I find that so hard to believe.
So I can’t quite say they have a psychological complex. Wanting to have kids is a biological process, not a disorder. We just find it odd in the realm of acceptable societal norms. In our society, it’s “wrong” to get pregnant as a teen. But with movies like Juno and all the celebrity pregnancies, I’d say it’s more along the lines of fandom than psychological disorder. Goodman may have been right, but I still don’t think it’s better to make illegitimacy shameful. That won’t help anyone.
Wanting to have kids is a biological process? So is eating. One takes much more emotional maturity than the other.
How can we have an ordered society if we don’t set societal norms? Look at our society today. It’s pretty much a mess because everyone wants to do their own thing without regard to how it affects society as a whole.
According to Wikipedia :” Shame is considered one aspect of socialization in all societies”. Shared opinions and expected behaviours that cause the feeling of shame (as well as an associated reproval) if violated by an individual are in any case proven to be very efficient in guiding behaviour in a group or society.”
Janet: How can we have an ordered society if we don’t set societal norms?
Can’t argue with that one, J.
…..
Look at our society today. It’s pretty much a mess because everyone wants to do their own thing without regard to how it affects society as a whole.
You know, there are always people in society who feel this way, and it’s been true for thousands of years.
You know, there are always people in society who feel this way, and it’s been true for thousands of years.
Posted by: Doug at June 25, 2008 8:39 AM
And you don’t see a problem with that?
And you don’t see a problem with that?
No, Janet, that’s human nature. That’s just the way it’s gonna be.