WSJ blog continues the Planned Parenthood discussion; quotes Stanek
This is Part III of a 3 part series on today’s Wall Street Journal article, “Planned Parenthood hits suburbia.”
See Part I here and Part II here.
Reporter Stephanie Simon accompanied her piece with a blog post at WSJ’s Front Lines. In it she quoted me from a conversation we had on PP’s expansion a couple months ago:
After decades of quiet expansion through a network of small, often somewhat shabby clinics, PP is poised to make a splash.
With annual revenues topping $1 billion last year, the nonprofit has gone on a building spree, laying out a network of upscale suburban clinics designed to feed into large regional health centers.
PP’s strategy for growth has emboldened its perennial foes in the antiabortion community. Rep. Mike Pence… plans to push legislation this summer to end federal funding of PP. Conservative activists are chiming in, arguing that the group has proved it can do fine without tax dollars.
“They’re a magnificent fundraising machine. They really are,” said Jill Stanek, an antiabortion blogger. “I would think everyday people on the street would stop and think, “Why are we funding this group?'”…
(The public money – more than $335 million last year – does not fund abortion; it’s earmarked for family planning and other reproductive care for low-income women.)
PP’s backers respond that the group helps millions of low-income women and teens stay healthy and avoid unwanted pregnancies.
The nonprofit may be adept at seeking new sources of revenue — from more affluent patients, private insurance, even sales of candles, jewelry and $2 condoms. But “anyone who criticizes this as too commercial is, in my view, missing the boat,” said Peter Frumkin, who teaches nonprofit administration at the University of TX. Promoting family planning among all income brackets is “entirely in keeping with their mission,” Mr. Frumkin said. “It’s also in keeping with a trend among nonprofits of seeking out new revenue streams independent of government funding or donations.”
Readers: Do you think tax dollars should continue to be directed to PP to subsidize health care for poorer women? What do you think of the group’s strategy of reaching out to more affluent clients?
I’ll ask the same questions here.
[Photo of PP’s Aurora, IL, abortion mill courtesy of WSJ]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Planned Parenthood provides cancer screenings, STD testing and prevention, and contraceptives and education to millions of Americans.
If Planned Parenthood never performed another abortion – and that IS one of their goals – the organization saves American taxpayers billions every year by providing preventive medicine to the public.
(PS. Could someone please explain Jasper’s Quote of the Day to me. There must be something I’m not quite getting…)
“Readers: Do you think tax dollars should continue to be directed to PP to subsidize health care for poorer women? ”
Of course. But when Cecile Richards is making a 6 figure income, and bachelors degree educated public health professionals are being offered 18k a year to be working on the front lines in one of the most expensive cities in the world, providing pregnancy and parenting education to these poor women, something is a little messed up in the system.
(PS. Could someone please explain Jasper’s Quote of the Day to me. There must be something I’m not quite getting…)
Posted by: Laura at June 23, 2008 5:14 PM
Obama bad. Everything Obama bad. Obama scary. Obama kills children. Mrs. Obama isn’t home all day with her girls. Obama will be bad president. (repeat until November, then turn up volume and repeat next 4 to 8 years)
I posted Michelle’s QOD. I thought it was shocking.
Hahahaha Hal… awesome. =)
Jill – not sure why you find it shocking. Their children are quite young…5 and 7 I think? At that age, do you really think they should be given printed copies of their parents daily itineraries? Or that all they need to know is Mommy will be home to tuck them in at bedtime?
Did your kids need to know where you were every second of every day when you were working or just know that you’d be home?
If that’s shocking, you must walk around in a constant state of electrocution.
Amanda, Laura, Hal: I would not expect you as pro-aborts to have any understanding of appropriate parenting and responses of children. Michelle’s declaration flies against common sense, never mind evidence.
Jill, I think a lot of “pro-aborts” believe a mother should stay at home with her children until a certain age. It’s not really a pro-life/pro-choice issue. However, I don’t see her comments as shocking. Pretty mainstream I’d say. Maybe you can disagree, but I’d be shocked if you were truly shocked by any other mother saying the exact same thing. Millions of American mothers go to work every day.
Obama bad. Everything Obama bad. Obama scary. Obama kills children. Mrs. Obama isn’t home all day with her girls. Obama will be bad president. (repeat until November, then turn up volume and repeat next 4 to 8 years)
Very true, Hal, you’re catching on. ;-)
Jill, I think a lot of “pro-aborts” believe a mother should stay at home with her children until a certain age. It’s not really a pro-life/pro-choice issue. However, I don’t see her comments as shocking. Pretty mainstream I’d say. Maybe you can disagree, but I’d be shocked if you were truly shocked by any other mother saying the exact same thing. Millions of American mothers go to work every day.
Don’t you think her indifference about the fact that her children NEVER see her was just a tad disturbing?
“My kids still don’t care where I am.”
How sad. I bet they do care.
I took it as a “My kids don’t care if I’m cleaning toilets all day long or on the presidential campaign trail all day long…..”
Some women choose to work for a living, some women NEED to work for a living. It doesn’t mean they don’t love their children any less.
So true, JKeller.
Others, feel free to keep raving about what a horrible mother she is, but she’s only doing what millions of working moms have to – and even more if another Republican gets into office…
The “Now Open” sign has since been replaced ;)
The kids still care and still need parents that are there for them….
If you need to work in order to bring in money to pay your bills, that is fine and it is GOOD. Life happens, and I have seen mothers that worked because they have to, and they always make time for their children. That is unselfish. That is taking care of your children, and loving them.
But being selfish and regarding your own desires as far more important than your children’s needs- filling your needs and ignoring your child’s needs – that is hurtful to children more than you might realize. Feeling that her children “don’t care” if you never spend time with them, shows how very little Michelle knows about children. All children need and desire time and love from their parents. Period. Her children are no different than other children in that way.
If the only time they see their mom and dad is at bedtime, how sad is that? I mean, they don’t even know their own parents, from what it sounds from Michelle’s comments. Makes me very, very sad.
Cranky Catholic, PERFECT!!!
by Harry Chapin
A child arrived just the other day,
He came to the world in the usual way.
But there were planes to catch, and bills to pay.
He learned to walk while I was away.
And he was talking ‘fore I knew it, and as he grew,
He’d say, “I’m gonna be like you, dad.
You know I’m gonna be like you.”
And the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon,
Little boy blue and the man in the moon.
“When you coming home, dad?” “I don’t know when,
But we’ll get together then.
You know we’ll have a good time then.”
My son turned ten just the other day.
He said, “Thanks for the ball, dad, come on let’s play.
Can you teach me to throw?” I said, “Not today,
I got a lot to do.” He said, “That’s ok.”
And he walked away, but his smile never dimmed,
Said, “I’m gonna be like him, yeah.
You know I’m gonna be like him.”
And the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon,
Little boy blue and the man in the moon.
“When you coming home, dad?” “I don’t know when,
But we’ll get together then.
You know we’ll have a good time then.”
Well, he came from college just the other day,
So much like a man I just had to say,
“Son, I’m proud of you. Can you sit for a while?”
He shook his head, and he said with a smile,
“What I’d really like, dad, is to borrow the car keys.
See you later. Can I have them please?”
And the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon,
Little boy blue and the man in the moon.
“When you coming home, son?” “I don’t know when,
But we’ll get together then, dad.
You know we’ll have a good time then.”
I’ve long since retired and my son’s moved away.
I called him up just the other day.
I said, “I’d like to see you if you don’t mind.”
He said, “I’d love to, dad, if I could find the time.
You see, my new job’s a hassle, and the kid’s got the flu,
But it’s sure nice talking to you, dad.
It’s been sure nice talking to you.”
And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me,
He’d grown up just like me.
My boy was just like me.
And the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon,
Little boy blue and the man in the moon.
“When you coming home, son?” “I don’t know when,
But we’ll get together then, dad.
You know we’ll have a good time then.”
Cranky Catholic, can I have your permission to forward that picture to some of my pro-life friends?
Laura, listen. As many times as it has been explained to you and somehow it has not gotten through to you- Jill acknowledges that her younger days were immature. Did you hear that or must I repeat it again and again before you hear it?
She has grown past that, Laura. Some people grow up, and they change and they get wiser, and change their childish ways. That is part of becoming a mature adult.
Harping continually on something Jill admitted to doing as a young woman, and has since completely given that lifestyle up, is ridiculous, and I’m tired of it, because this has already been explained to you and you continue to ignore it just so you can continue attacking Jill.
Every time you post something about it, I’m going to delete it, because it has no relevance to any of these debates. If she was partying every night and leaving her children with babysitters TODAY then that would be a different story- it actually might be relevant to this michelle obama discussion- but you’re talking about something she did when she was a TEEN. Get over it !
but you’re talking about something she did when she was a TEEN. Get over it !
Posted by: Bethany at June 23, 2008 7:45 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
She wasn’t a teen.
You don’t see anything ironic about a self-admitted bad mother accusing someone else of being a bad mother?
QOTD: ~ Michelle Obama, speaking at a National Partnership for Women & Families luncheon June 20, as quoted by CNSNews.com, today
Notice the group she was speaking to. When she said, “My kids still don’t care where I am”, my guess is maybe she was hoping for a laugh from the audience. (?) I can’t imagine any other way to explain it. It certainly isn’t an attitude most moms would hope for.
Bethany:7:36: Great song!!!!
I love that song, Janet. :) Hope you’re having a good evening!
She wasn’t a teen.
You don’t see anything ironic about a self-admitted bad mother accusing someone else of being a bad mother?
Okay, she was a young woman then. Whatever, Laura. No, I don’t see anything ironic about it, because it doesn’t relate at all. It’s silly to compare the two.
The only thing that would make it relate is if Michelle Obama USED to be a working mother who never spent time with her kids, and now she regrets that and has turned over a new leaf and speaks to others encouraging them to spend more time with their children.. In which case, I wouldn’t have a problem with Michelle Obama’s parenting skills of TODAY. But Michelle Obama is up there saying that she NEVER sees her kids, except at bedtime…not only that, but she publicly speaks about it as though it is a good and normal thing. And that is TODAY, not decades ago. Her children will be the ones to pay the price.
Bethany, you can take anything you want at Cranky Catholic.
And even if she meant it in jest, many a truth is told in jest.
CC, you did a great job with the banner ripples… seamless.
And thanks!
But Michelle Obama is up there saying that she NEVER sees her kids, except at bedtime
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) She never said that. In fact, the girls are photographed with their doting parents ALL THE TIME.
2) She’s out helping her husband save this country, not leaving her kids at home to “suffer” while she goes out to party.
However, I don’t see her comments as shocking. Pretty mainstream I’d say. Maybe you can disagree, but I’d be shocked if you were truly shocked by any other mother saying the exact same thing. Millions of American mothers go to work every day.
Posted by: hal at June 23, 2008 5:48 PM
That’s just it Hal. IF it is “pretty mainstream” it’s no wonder we have girls making pacts to get pregnant. They have no parents at home to care for them and to listen to what’s important to them, to make them feel loved. Maybe a baby will make them feel loved. No parents to know where there head is, to help them decide what values are important.
Cranky Catholic: you are too good! That picture is AWESOME!! Jill: Isn’t there some kind of award for this – like BEST UNVEILING OF THE TRUTH! (this was my 16 year old daughter’s suggestion!!)
2) She’s out helping her husband save this country, not leaving her kids at home to “suffer” while she goes out to party.
Posted by: Laura at June 23, 2008 8:32 PM
OH PLEASE! Now who’s delusional!!
2) She’s out helping her husband save this country.
Wait, that wasn’t enough.
Ok Bethany. Calm down now! You are going to blow a gasket!
:-P
1) She never said that. In fact, the girls are photographed with their doting parents ALL THE TIME.
2) She’s out helping her husband save this country, not leaving her kids at home to “suffer” while she goes out to party.
Posted by: Laura at June 23, 2008 8:32 PM
~~
Quite true. Meanwhile, there will be always people trying to demonize her.
Margareta, you play the victim card much?
M. Obama would be an awful first Lady, she is a spoiled, hateful, angry person. God help this country if her husband gets elected.
Bethany, that’s a nice song you posted, but let’s not forget that its author is now a member of the global anti-freedom death-cult called Islam, and that he supported the calls for the murder of Salman Rushdie.
Jill, you apparently wrote, or said in public: “I would think everyday people on the street would stop and think, “Why are we funding this group?'”…”
SMART everyday people would quickly answer this question: because it saves us more money than it costs, and thereby lowers taxes and national debt.
test
Laura,
In reference to Jasper’s post and “something you’re not getting”, there isn’t the time or the room on this site to enumerate the plethora of things you “don’t get”…or rather, don’t “WANT” to get.
“Bethany, that’s a nice song you posted, but let’s not forget that its author is now a member of the global anti-freedom death-cult called Islam”
No SoMG, Harry Chapin’s wife wrote the lyrics and he sang it. Not Cat Stevens…
So Obama’s right about one thing.
If the kids get pregnant while mama’s out doing her thing……then this should be considered a punishment from God. For once the guy made sense.
A new acronym for Planned Parenthood:
NAZI
National Abortion Zealots Incorporated
Front page WSJ: Planned Parenthood charts
This is Part II of a 3-part post on a front page Wall Street Journal article today entitled, “Planned Parenthood hits suburbia.” (Read Part I here and Part III here.) Following are informative charts that accompanied the story. The source…
Jasper, thanks for that information. Did Yusuf Islam who I guess was still Cat Stevens back then profit at all from the song?
And here’s an off-topic comment: Robert Mugabe should be starved to death. Put him in a cell with running water but don’t feed him. When he feels the pangs of hunger let him reflect first on the number of people he has prevented from obtaining food and secondly on the number of people he has prevented from producing food. Take his bones out when he’s done digesting himself.
HisMan, do you know of a recent or current connection between Nazis in the USA and PP? If yes, I would be glad to learn what you know.
It would be interesting to see just how long PP survives without federal funding. My guess is that within 5 years the organization would be dead in the water in the US.
In Canada, our huge, blood-sucking, feminista women’s organization NAC (National Action Committee on the Status of Women)which advocated abortion among other things, was defunded and quickly withered and died. Proving that it did not represent women’s interests as many profamily, prowoman groups had indicated.
SoMG: nope it probably increases the cost of health care in dealing with all the sexual diseases, abortions, cancers and other problems that are the health fallouts of PP promotion of free love, free sex, free abortion and uninhibited sexual molestation of children by sexual predators.
“Did Yusuf Islam who I guess was still Cat Stevens back then profit at all from the song?”
I don’t believe so, but many did think Cat Stevens wrote the song…
HisMan, do you know of a recent or current connection between Nazis in the USA and PP? If yes, I would be glad to learn what you know.
Posted by: SoMG at June 24, 2008 5:14 AM
EASY! the Nazi’s pushed the murder of millions of innocent people based on race and religion as well as developing strong eugenics programs. PP pushes the murder of 100’s of millions of innocent helpless children as well as having a strong eugenics flavour to their business operations by locating in poor black neighbourhoods.
BTW: this connection isn’t limited to the US, but reaches like the blood-sucking octopus it really is, through out the world.
Don’t you just LOVE Cranky Catholic’s PP sign!
Tata for now.
Patricia, you wrote: “the Nazi’s [sic] pushed the murder of millions of innocent people based on race and religion as well as developing strong eugenics programs. ”
I asked about Nazis IN THE USA, currently or recently. Don’t you read? And I was asking about a political or personal or money-related connection, not ideological or philosophical commonalities or similarities.
You wrote: “PP pushes the murder… ” No, dear. Two lies of commission here. Whatever else abortion may be it is not murder. And PP does not “push” abortion.
You wrote: “… as well as having a strong eugenics flavour to their business operations by locating in poor black neighbourhoods.”
I guess I can’t point to an actual lie in an assertion of something as vague as a “flavor” but I can tell you PP’s choices about where to locate their facilities are based on expected demand for their services. If you base it on anything else, your facilities stand idle which is one of the worst things that can happen to a health-care provider even a non-profit. You want to be able to report as much activity as possible to your sponsors especially if your sponsors include the Feds.
Patricia, you wrote: “PP promotion of free love, free sex,”
Two lies of commission in that phrase. In fact PP for at least a decade and currently promote “abstinance plus”, which teaches first and formost that the only sure method of birth control and protection against SDIs is abstinance from sexual intercourse. I should also ding you for the lie of implication that PP increases “sexual diseases, abortions, cancers” which is actually three lies of implication, somewhat mediated but not excused by the use of the word “probably”.
You wrote: “It would be interesting to see just how long PP survives without federal funding. My guess is that within 5 years the organization would be dead in the water in the US.”
This would not surprise me. It is a very difficult challenge to provide minimal-cost reproductive health services. It is a very difficult challenge to provide minimal-cost health-care services of any kind. I’ve never looked it up but I’d bet (if I were a betting man) the majority of minimal-cost care providers of any kind of health care (including dental) in the USA depend to some extent on Federal grants.
Jasper, thanks for that information. Did Yusuf Islam who I guess was still Cat Stevens back then profit at all from the song?
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? So Cat Stevens profited from a song he didn’t write and probably didn’t believe in…like many, many musicians do. What does that prove exactly, SOMG?
SOMG it is misleading to say that Planned Parenthood promotes abstinence. That’s like saying Crisis Pregnancy Centers promote abortion.
SoMG @ 12:00 AM
SoMG – You’re still somehow confusing the title of the song with Cat Stevens.
Harry Chapin died in 1981. The song made him a millionaire, but it wasn’t written by him for his children – he died rushing to a concert and the likely cause was a heart attack.
Very apt song for those who don’t spend enough time with their kids.
Bethany, you wrote: “SOMG it is misleading to say that Planned Parenthood promotes abstinence.”
You don’t think that sending speakers into high schools to inform adolescents that abstinance is the only sure way to avoid pregnancy and STIs counts as “promot[ing]” it?
You wrote: “That’s like saying Crisis Pregnancy Centers promote abortion. ”
Wow! That’s not just “misleading”, that’s dead opposite of their position. Your two sentences together imply that PP opposes abstinance, which is a lie of implication.
when did Michelle Obama become Wonder Woman and Barack become SuperMan? Save this country? Now that’s a laugh…… They won’t save this country.
You don’t think that sending speakers into high schools to inform adolescents that abstinance is the only sure way to avoid pregnancy and STIs counts as “promot[ing]” it?
Nope…not when they finish it with “but we understand that’s an unrealistic goal for teens. Here’s a bunch of other ways you can still have lots of great sex and try to reduce chance of STD’s.”
Wow! That’s not just “misleading”, that’s dead opposite of their position. Your two sentences together imply that PP opposes abstinance, which is a lie of implication.
Yes, PP does oppose abstinence. That was why the analogy fit so perfectly.
No, Bethany, PP does not say that abstinance is an unrealistic goal. That’s just not one of the things PP says.
Liz, you may be right about the Obamas not saving the country, but we will need a lot more of God’s help if McCain is elected.
This happens to be one moment in the history of the USA when gridlock between the Congress and the President could cause us all to go bankrupt.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/abstinence-4215.htm
SOMG, do you work for PP? You seem awfully defensive of them.
If PP doesn’t think that abstinence isn’t unrealistic for teens, why the need to focus so much on contraceptives? They obviously feel that it is unrealistic to expect teens to be abstinent.
M. Obama would be an awful first Lady, she is a spoiled, hateful, angry person. God help this country if her husband gets elected.
Posted by: jasper at June 23, 2008 10:13 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Funny, I’ve seen a number of interviews with her as well as her appearances on *”The Colbert Reprt” and “The View.”
She seems absolutely delightful.
*Does anyone have a clue as to what happened to Stephen Colbert’s face?
Laura, Planned Parenthood “promoting” abstinence is like R. Kelly giving lessons on treating women with respect, or Michael Vick giving lectures on preventing animal cruelty.
We will need a ton of God’s help if we end up with “More War” McCain. You’d think, of all people, John McCain would have had enough of war. But then again, some people never learn. And he won’t have to experience it firsthand this time around.
Bethany:
you posted the Harry Chapin lyrics to Cats in the Cradle without permission and without attribution. It’s my understanding that both the record company and his heirs take this as a serious copyright infringement. Please delete that post.
Laura, Planned Parenthood “promoting” abstinence is like R. Kelly giving lessons on treating women with respect, or Michael Vick giving lectures on preventing animal cruelty.
Posted by: Bethany at June 24, 2008 10:21 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then who do YOU think is qualified to promote abstinence?
Abstinence can only work when both partners agree to it. So it is also helpful to keep talking to each other about why you’ve agreed to abstain from sex play. Your relationship may change. And your decision to be abstinent may change, too.
Um, this doesn’t really make sense. “Abstinence can only work when both partners agree to it”?
What is this supposed to imply exactly?
Does Planned Parenthood ignore the fact that perhaps a teen who is choosing to be abstinent may not have a partner?
Or that if he/she is involved wiht someone, are they implying that she doesn’t have a say if his/her partner doesn’t agree to it?
And then it finishes with, well, if your partner doesn’t agree with you, then you need to talk about it. Then maybe you’ll change your mind about being abstinent.
So should the person change their mind about remaining abstinent until marriage based on how their partner feels? Sounds like that’s what Planned Parenthood thinks.
Then who do YOU think is qualified to promote abstinence?
Someone who actually cares about it.
OBAMA ENDORSEMENT FROM HARRY’S DAUGHTER, JEN
Thursday, April 10, 2008
Sandy Chapin Endorses Barack Obama — and Harry Would Too
When Harry Chapin died in 1981, no less a Republican than Kansas Senator Bob Dole eulogized him in the Senate. “He could have been a millionaire,” Dole said, “instead Harry Chapin chose to try to make a lasting mark on the world by upholding his commitment to a higher moral order.”
I met Harry Chapin in 1975 as news director of my college radio station (WNYT Old Westbury, the voice of New York Institute of Technology). I was one of a group of college news directors to visit Harry Chapin at his home in Huntington, Long Island, to interview him about his role as founder of the “World Hunger Year.”
Last year I had a brief correspondence with Jen Chapin, who I met at the time. She was about five years old. Harry Chapin was the kind of person who, if you ever met him, made you feel right at home e-mailing his kids thirty years later. “Just one of the family.”
Anyway, I ended up on Jen Chapin’s mailing list. I received this just minutes ago:
Dear Friends,
Hello! All of you are people who have somehow identified yourselves to me as “Chapin Fans,
Phylosopher, the attribution is there now. Thanks for the concern.
HARRY CHAPIN’S WIFE’S ENDORSEMENT
(she co-wrote Cat’s in the Cradle)
Here’s the text of Sandy Chapin’s endorsement of Barack Obama:
On Barack Obama and Harry Chapin
By Sandy Chapin
I am so excited about Barack Obama as a candidate for President of the United States that I am compelled to share my thoughts with you. I learned from Harry that when you really believe in the power of individual people you can accomplish great things. I learned that when you are young with boundless energy, initiative and sheer determination to pursue the impossible dream you can empower others to galvanize their own energies, ideas, and determination. Remember, Harry said that out of every six or seven tasks he tried,
Harry’s daughter, Jen, didn’t write the song, Phylo. Not sure exactly what your point was supposed to be there.
Okay, so I still don’t know what your point is, Phylo.
Harry Chapin died in 1981. The song made him a millionaire, but it wasn’t written by him for his children – he died rushing to a concert and the likely cause was a heart attack.
Very apt song for those who don’t spend enough time with their kids.
Posted by: Chris Arsenault at June 24, 2008 8:29 AM
GET YOUR FILTHY FINGERS OFF ANY MORE COMMENTS ABOUT CHAPIN WHEN YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TYPING ABOUT.
What is your deal, Phylo?
Bethany, you wrote: “SOMG, do you work for PP?”
No. I volunteered with them when I was pre-med.
“If PP doesn’t think that abstinence isn’t unrealistic for teens, why the need to focus so much on contraceptives? ”
What a stupid question. The answer is because those who do not choose abstinence need to avoid pregnancy too.
You wrote: “They obviously feel that it is unrealistic to expect teens to be abstinent. ”
You need to insert the word “all” between the words “expect” and “teens”. Then your sentence would be correct.
The point is, you posted the song as anti-Michelle Obama, or anti-Obama. I posted to show that the writer of the song is pro-Obama. And the deceased co-writer of the song would be pro-Obama, too.
I take offense when someone’s work is co-opted to support a cause they would have abhorred.
Plus, it’s a damn good explanation of why everyone should support Obama.
As for Jen, I didn’t say she wrote the song, though she is a songwriter. And isn’t it great that she and her mom Sandy take little Maceo with them campaigning for Obama – great mom, that Jen Chapin!
I take offense when someone’s work is co-opted to support a cause they would have abhorred.
Posted by: phylosopher at June 24, 2008 10:50 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Does it remind you of the time that anti-choicers tried to hijack “Horton Hears a Who” even though Geisel and his wife were adamantly pro-choice?
What a stupid question. The answer is because those who do not choose abstinence need to avoid pregnancy too.
I don’t believe it was a stupid question, SOMG.
By the way, did you happen to catch Yllas’ questions on the other thread?
https://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/06/proaborts_abhor.html#comments
I am still very anxious to hear the answers.
The point is, you posted the song as anti-Michelle Obama, or anti-Obama. I posted to show that the writer of the song is pro-Obama. And the deceased co-writer of the song would be pro-Obama, too.
I take offense when someone’s work is co-opted to support a cause they would have abhorred.
Plus, it’s a damn good explanation of why everyone should support Obama.
As for Jen, I didn’t say she wrote the song, though she is a songwriter. And isn’t it great that she and her mom Sandy take little Maceo with them campaigning for Obama – great mom, that Jen Chapin!
Phylo, as I figured, you completely missed the point. The point was not about the song’s author, but the message of the song.
By the way, the person who wrote the song probably wrote from experience…which in that case would make them, obviously, a very pro-Obama type.
Does it remind you of the time that anti-choicers tried to hijack “Horton Hears a Who” even though Geisel and his wife were adamantly pro-choice?
You guys love to miss the point, don’t you. The point is not about Dr Suess or his politics, but the beautiful quote, “A person is a person, no matter how small”. Even a pro-choice person can accidentally say something very pro-life.
By the way, I have that as a bumper sticker on my car. Love that quote.
Does it remind you of the time that anti-choicers tried to hijack “Horton Hears a Who” even though Geisel and his wife were adamantly pro-choice?
Posted by: Laura at June 24, 2008 11:03 AM
Yes, and anyone who uses it, against Mrs. Geisel’s wishes is an a**
By the way, the person who wrote the song probably wrote from experience…which in that case would make them, obviously, a very pro-Obama type.
Posted by: Bethany at June 24, 2008 11:08 AM
Remember, Sandy wrote the lyrics. I believe they came from a critique of her first husband. Harry was her second. She and Harry continued to be philanthropically and politically active, and use that activism to serve as role models for their children – as Jen’s writing shows.
Again, I’m saying don’t distort the memory of the deceased in your misguided idea that anything is fair game in pursuit of your cause.
Again, I’m saying don’t distort the memory of the deceased in your misguided idea that anything is fair game in pursuit of your cause.
Again, I’m saying, the author of the song wasn’t my point in the first place. Talk to you soon, Phylo
Bethany, I do not usually read yllas’ posts, because they are hostile and incoherent. But if you post questions I will try to answer unless they are too personal.
Dr. Suess also wrote a book in support of body-ownership, called THIDWICK, THE BIG-HEARTED MOOSE.
He also wrote a book about discolored breakfast food. But that’s neither here nor there.
This would not surprise me. It is a very difficult challenge to provide minimal-cost reproductive health services. It is a very difficult challenge to provide minimal-cost health-care services of any kind. I’ve never looked it up but I’d bet (if I were a betting man) the majority of minimal-cost care providers of any kind of health care (including dental) in the USA depend to some extent on Federal grants.
Posted by: SoMG at June 24, 2008 6:43 AM
Excellent then lets kill this Gorgon while we can!
You know SoMG PP does not believe one tiny bit in abstinence. Otherwise they would not be handing out condoms & BC to every Tom, Dick and Harriet who walk in their front doors. Abstinence is bad for business SoMG, it cuts into the bottom line.
NO sex=NO pregnancies
No sex=No abortions
No sex=no STD’s
No sex=no BC to sell
No sex=no PP!!! reason to exist
SEX SELLS SoMG! You of all “people” should know that! Please be honest!
JKeller, He also wrote a book about discolored breakfast food. But that’s neither here nor there.
Lol. You know your Dr. Suess books, don’t you!
….Do you like
green eggs and ham?
I do not like them,
Sam-I-am.
I do not like
green eggs and ham.
Would you like them
here or there?
I would not like them
here or there.
I would not like them
anywhere.
I do not like
green eggs and ham.
I do not like them,
Sam-I-am…..
Somg.
Your the person that talks about your private life and this thread has you posting about your “pre med” life.
If I define you as a killing professional, that is not a dysphemism, and nothing more then a accurate description of your professional occupation of healing by dealing death to innocent human beings.
Here’s a fact Somg.
I write for others to read my post about you Somg. Whether you read them or not, is not the point of writing about a killing professional named Somg.
This site offers many articles about killing professionals through the writing of Jill Stanek and other contributors to this site.
Which brings up the question why you come here and repeat your reasons for killing innocent human beings over and over until one comes to the conclusion that your a mere propaganist for your businesss of killing human beings.
Hopefully you didn’t read this post and Dogma Doug will defend his hero of actually doing the killing of innocent human beings. He has a crush on you from his addiction to abortion.
Another incoherent post from yllas – they always make me realize what a waste of time this is- and what a beautiful day I’m wasting on the computer. Bye.TTF a long while.
What’s TTF?
Another incoherent post from Phylospher– they always make me realize what a waste of time Phylosopher makes of his time. Imagine a “lover of wisdom”(this might be a incoherent phrase to a person who can’t spell philosopher correctly) admiting his lack of wisdom includes his wasting of time.
What other wisdom do you lack phylosopher? The wisdom to know that wasting time is a mark of a fool. Fool Phylosopher, heal thyself first before throwing ad hominems about in violation of logic and truth.
But, here is one back at ya you foolish phylospher, as expressed in Texanese. Don’t let the door hit your dumb a– on the way out outa here Phylosopher. Or get your filthy fingers off that book on phylosophy before you comment on the philosophy of Phylosopher.
You gotta have a mania for Chapin to go off like a pack of hemmorrhoids Phylosopher.
Cat’s in the cradle
and Phylo’s gazing at his navel,
When ya coming back loon?
When ya comin back loon?
Another incoherent post from Phylospher– they always make me realize what a waste of time Phylosopher makes of his time. Imagine a “lover of wisdom”(this might be a incoherent phrase to a person who can’t spell philosopher correctly) admiting his lack of wisdom includes his wasting of time.
What other wisdom do you lack phylosopher? The wisdom to know that wasting time is a mark of a fool. Fool Phylosopher, heal thyse
*giggle*
Bobby..
TTF = Ta-Ta For…”a long while”
usually TTFN – Ta Ta For Now. =)
Geeze, where do you kids come up with these acronyms? And how does ya’ll know them? Is there a special email that will keep me current on what the kids are saying these days? Please provide a link.
You wrote: “They obviously feel that it is unrealistic to expect teens to be abstinent. ”
You need to insert the word “all” between the words “expect” and “teens”. Then your sentence would be correct.
Posted by: SoMG at June 24, 2008 10:47 AM
NOPE. Correction SoMG: You and PP obviously feel that it is unrealistic to expect ANY teens to be abstinent.
Hence the focus on BC and abortion.
And of course here’s yet another top-notch abortion doctor using his killing skills honed no doubt in America’s abortuaries:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08062402.html
http://www.imacronyms.com/
or
http://www.netlingo.com/emailsh.cfm
might help
You could also rent a teenager: I have 3! (I’m willing to let them go FOR FREE)
“Geeze, where do you kids come up with these acronyms? And how does ya’ll know them? Is there a special email that will keep me current on what the kids are saying these days? Please provide a link.”
Bobby, your link is named Gianna. Wait a few more years, and she will become a priceless source of information for “what the kids are saying these days”.
Until then, continue surrounding yourself with the Dartmouth types who make being uncool seem very hip…and… cool.
=)
Bethany, I do not usually read yllas’ posts, because they are hostile and incoherent. But if you post questions I will try to answer unless they are too personal.
Okay, I will ask the ones that Yllas posted, if you don’t mind, because I do want to hear your answers.
Yllas, I hope you don’t mind my reposting them, and if I copied any of them incorrectly, please do let me know and I’ll make changes.
1.) Do/Did you inform your patients, or anyone who posts on this board, that methotrexate is a cytotoxin?
2.) Did you inform your patients that methotrexate,or this board, is actually a “off branded” drug, used for medical abortion?
3.) What is ‘off branding’ as defined by the FDA?
4.) Do you screen your patients for any disease for which methotrexate is contraindicated, and do you inform this board of such screenings of a person receiving a medical abortion via MTX?
5.) Which diseases is methotrexate contraindicated in?
6.) Why did you not inform this board of the adverse actions of MTX, when recommending or prescribing MTX at this board?
7.) What is the correct protocol for methotrexate injection in matters of medical abortion?
8.) Do you decide the dosage of MTX by a protocol of 50mg per square meter of body mass area?
9.) What is the mean average of MTX given in a medical abortion, by injection?
10.) What doseages of MTX are available as a oral administration for the “branded use” of MTX?
11.) Is MTX given in a mega-dose for medical abortion, as compared to the prescribed doseage for the “branded purpose” of MTX? And what is the ratio by mg. of branded, and off branded doseage of MTX?
12.) If a doctor did not screen a patient for a tubal pregnancy before a medical abortion: is this following or not following the accepted protocol for “medicine abortion”?
Geeze, where do you kids come up with these acronyms? And how does ya’ll know them? Is there a special email that will keep me current on what the kids are saying these days? Please provide a link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySR3hpieiQc
Here ya go, Bobby! LOL
With all due respect, yllas, as you see, Bethany has taken the time to retype your post so that it’s easy to follow and therefore worthy of reply.
Hint!
I must add, yllas, that those were excellent questions.
If it hadn’t been for Bethany, I would have never read them.
why are those “excellent questions?” they’re not even interesting ones.
LOL. Carder, I was trying to find a good way to say the same thing, fully expecting to get some odd, rambling, insult-riddled response with a new fun nickname like AcidicAmanda. =)
OK Bethany, here goes.
1.) Do/Did you inform your patients, or anyone who posts on this board, that methotrexate is a cytotoxin?”
No. Very few patients know the word “cytotoxin”. And very few of them care about how methotrexate works. I told you before, except in pediatrics, the very large majority of patients are inquisitive about only two things: what they should do, and what’s going to happen. Not how or why. In pediatrics you get a LITTLE more inquisitiveness from the parents, when they’re anxious about their kids.
2.) Did you inform your patients that methotrexate,or this board, is actually a “off branded” drug, used for medical abortion?
No. Docs use all kinds of drugs for all kinds of off-label purposes all the time.
3.) What is ‘off branding’ as defined by the FDA?
I don’t know the phrase “off branding” but if it means the same thing as “off label” it means using a drug for a purpose other than the one it was approved for by the FDA.
4.) Do you screen your patients for any disease for which methotrexate is contraindicated, and do you inform this board of such screenings of a person receiving a medical abortion via MTX?
HIV, a compromised immune system (these are not the same thing), kidney problems, liver problems, inflammatory bowel disease, allergy to methotrexate or misoprostol.
5.) Which diseases is methotrexate contraindicated in?
See above.
6.) Why did you not inform this board of the adverse actions of MTX, when recommending or prescribing MTX at this board?
What “adverse actions” do you have in mind? And what do you mean by “prescribing MTX at this board”?
7.) What is the correct protocol for methotrexate injection in matters of medical abortion?
Intramuscular.
8.) Do you decide the dosage of MTX by a protocol of 50mg per square meter of body mass area?
Yes.
9.) What is the mean average of MTX given in a medical abortion, by injection?
I dunno, but it’s not always by injection. You can take it orally.
10.) What doseages of MTX are available as a oral administration for the “branded use” of MTX?
I get it as a liquid. Google it.
11.) Is MTX given in a mega-dose for medical abortion, as compared to the prescribed doseage for the “branded purpose” of MTX? And what is the ratio by mg. of branded, and off branded doseage of MTX?
I believe MTX is “branded” (I prefer the word “approved”) for two uses: chemotherapy and treatment of autoimmune disease (which means mostly rhumatoid arthritis). The abortifacient dose is one fifth the chemotheraputic dose–a mini-dose, not a mega-dose. I’m not sure what dose is used for rhumatoid arthritis but the patient takes it regularly for his whole life unless he develops an allergy.
12.) If a doctor did not screen a patient for a tubal pregnancy before a medical abortion: is this following or not following the accepted protocol for “medicine abortion”?
I can tell you we ultrasound everybody to verify gestational age and the sonograms are checked for signs of tubal pregancy. The problem is that ultrasound is a very imperfect method of diagnosing tubal pregnancy. This is one reason I prefer methotrexate to RU486. Methotrexate was used to kill tubal pregnancies long before it was ever used against normal ones.
Patricia, you wrote: “You and PP obviously feel that it is unrealistic to expect ANY teens to be abstinent. Hence the focus on BC and abortion.”
I am curious: what do you gain, for yourself or for right-to-lifism, by posting such obvious, childish silliness?
Thank you for answering all of the questions, SOMG, I appreciate it.
No. Very few patients know the word “cytotoxin”. And very few of them care about how methotrexate works. I told you before, except in pediatrics, the very large majority of patients are inquisitive about only two things: what they should do, and what’s going to happen.
How do you know they don’t care about how it works, SOMG? Isn’t it possible that they just don’t know what kind of questions to ask?
Many people do blindly trust advice doctors give them, believing naively that the doctor wouldn’t give them something harmful to them. I was one of those naive people a few years ago. (I’m probably still a little too naive for my own good.)
Wouldn’t it be perhaps a good idea to tell them that it is a cytotoxin, and then in laymen’s terms, explain to them what a cytotoxin is, and how it can affect your body, so that the person makes an informed choice instead of a hasty, emotional choice (which is what abortion usually is) – a choice that they may later regret because of physical consequences later on? From what I’ve read, cytotoxins are very dangerous to the body.
I don’t know the phrase “off branding” but if it means the same thing as “off label” it means using a drug for a purpose other than the one it was approved for by the FDA.
Would you consider it to be a form of human experimentation, SOMG?
What “adverse actions” do you have in mind? And what do you mean by “prescribing MTX at this board”?
I think what he meant was you have stated many times here on the blog that if a woman wants to have an abortion she should use Methotrexate, and you do this as if you are a medical authority, which would mean that you are technically “prescribing” it online, in at least one sense of the word. Read definition 1a:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prescribe
I can tell you we ultrasound everybody to verify gestational age and the sonograms are checked for signs of tubal pregancy. The problem is that ultrasound is a very imperfect method of diagnosing tubal pregnancy. This is one reason I prefer methotrexate to RU486. Methotrexate was used to kill tubal pregnancies long before it was ever used against normal ones.
Do you see a lot of tubal pregnancies in repeat abortion patients, that you are aware of?
You wrote: “From what I’ve read, cytotoxins are very dangerous to the body. ”
“Cytotoxin” is a very general term, meaning anything that kills cells. How dangerous one is depends on which type of cytotoxin it is and the dose. The abortifacient dose of methotrexate is not dangerous.
Methotrexate is a dihydrofolate reductase inhibitor. It prevents cells from multiplying more than killing cells.
You wrote: “Would you consider it to be a form of human experimentation, SOMG? ”
Off-label use of methotrexate for abortions? Not any more. Clinical trials were done in the late 1990s on willing subjects.
Regarding prescribing: to me that means writing a legally valid prescription.
You wrote: “Do you see a lot of tubal pregnancies in repeat abortion patients, that you are aware of? ”
I don’t see a lot of tubal pregnancies period. I also don’t see many repeat abortion patients.
I don’t see a lot of tubal pregnancies period. I also don’t see many repeat abortion patients.
Maybe I misunderstood something from before, then. Didn’t you say that you work on only the high risk patients- those coming in for their second abortion, at least? If those are your only patients, then how could you not see many repeat abortion patients?
Patricia, you wrote: “You and PP obviously feel that it is unrealistic to expect ANY teens to be abstinent. Hence the focus on BC and abortion.”
I am curious: what do you gain, for yourself or for right-to-lifism, by posting such obvious, childish silliness?
Posted by: SoMG at June 24, 2008 3:54 PM
I can see I obviously touched a nerve SoMG. This has been the PP mantra along with the women’s movement mantra for years – since the beginning of the sexual revolution.
All sex ed is based on the fact that ALL teens are expected to engage in sexual intercourse at some point in their teen years. Don’t be so stupidly naive SoMG. PP has been saying for years how “teens are gonna have sex, so….”
What planet have you been on for the past 30 years?
“Bobby, your link is named Gianna. Wait a few more years, and she will become a priceless source of information for “what the kids are saying these days”.”
Yes, but that doesn’t help me NOW. Instant gratification generation 4 life, baby!
“Until then, continue surrounding yourself with the Dartmouth types who make being uncool seem very hip…and… cool.”
Yes indeed, the kids here certainly do a fine job of that.
Bobby: You will have to keep replicating Gianna (or some facsimile, thereof) however, if you wish to remain current! lol
My most adept computer whiz is my youngest.
“You will have to keep replicating Gianna”
Oh I plan to… believe me, I plan to!
“Another incoherent post from yllas”
Posted by: phylosopher at June 24, 2008 1:15 PM
I read this blog back in April and it was the same – Yllas having weird obssessions about people and really just trying to talk about them, instead of addressing any of the issues.
“Another incoherent post from Phylospher” ~ Yllas
Phylosopher is exactly on-target about you, and you know it. People respond to you amazingly calmly, considering your immature blathering rants
“I do not usually read yllas’ posts, because they are hostile and incoherent.” ~ SoMG
Understatement. Now that Bethany has cleaned up some of yllas’ garbage, and that you have kindly replied, let’s see if there is any rational response. History says no, but we shall see.
“When you coming home, son?” “I don’t know when,
But we’ll get together then, dad.
You know we’ll have a good time then.” ~ Bethany
Ah, now that was a sad one.
“You will have to keep replicating Gianna”
Oh I plan to… believe me, I plan to!
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at June 24, 2008 7:30 PM
I always maintain it’s good to up-to-date and kids are a fine way to accomplish this!!
I would not like them
here or there.
I would not like them
anywhere.
I do not like
green eggs and ham.
I do not like them,
Sam-I-am….. ~ Janet
The OJ Trial As Told By Dr. Seuss
I did not kill my lovely wife.
I did not slash her with a knife.
I did not bonk her on the head.
I did not know that she was dead.
I stayed at home that fateful night.
I took a cab, then took a flight.
The bag I had was just for me.
My bag! My bag! Hey, leave it be.
When I came home I had a gash.
My hand was cut from broken glass.
I cut my hand on broken glass.
A broken glass did cause that gash.
I have nothing, nothing to hide.
My friend, he took me for a ride.
Did you take this person’s life?
Did you do it with a knife?
I did not do it with a knife.
I did not, could not, kill my wife.
I did not do this awful crime.
I could not, would not, anytime.
Did you hit her from above?
Did you drop this bloody glove?
I did not hit her from above.
I cannot even wear that glove.
I did not do it with a knife.
I did not, could not, kill my wife.
I did not do this awful crime.
I could not, would not, anytime.
And now I’m free, I can return
To my house for which I yearn.
And to my family whom I love.
Hey now I’m free — Give back my glove!!
To SoMG: Which brings up the question why you come here and repeat your reasons for killing innocent human beings over and over until one comes to the conclusion that your a mere propaganist for your businesss of killing human beings. Posted by: yllas at June 24, 2008 1:09 PM
Well I think to show prolifers that bortionist’s love what they do.
it’s not exactly a job that enhances ones sense of self-esteem, you know.
However, SoMG’s posts demonstrate the incredible rationalization that must go on in an otherwise intelligent human being’s mind in order to function as an abortionist. I would bet that this person focuses many waking moments on why abortion is good, rational and important.
If SoMG is a woman, the tragedy is even greater because as a woman she ought to have some interior sense of what it means to be a woman and to nurture a life within her – even a life not necessarily convenient for her at that time. She therefore has no heart – or not the heart of a true woman. It has been completely rationalized away in the name of “choice”.
If SoMG is a man, he does not cherish women nor see himself as a protector. He is a profitor. Convenience is the rationalization again for aborting women who don’t want a pregnancy. There might also be some sort of the thrill in doing abortions – a shock value which SoMG finds satisfying.
Under the guise of counselling, he pretends to want women to not come back for a second abortion. However, wouldn’t the best way be to show the woman what she really carries inside her at 4 wks, 8 wks, 10 wks?
If SoMG wanted abortion rare – then SoMG would tell each and every woman what pregnancy really is. There would be fetal models in the waiting room (not Dolls, SoMG). Of course, then his waiting room would be empty and that cannot happen, now can it?
Bethany.
The answer to question one, informs me that SOMG accepts a ignorance is bliss form of medicating a patient. Since SOMG is a doctor evidently, SOMG is actually a know nothing on the actions of MTX.
It works and that is all I need to know, and the less I know, the less I can be sued, from being as ignorant as the patient.
Another words, SOMG wants and encourages ignorance as a medical professional.
2, Again the reason for asking the question(s) of MTX, was that SOMG accuses others of ill informing the public on medical matters. SOMG is omiting information and committing acts of which he accuses others of. A hypocrite to his own words, which of course SOMG believes to be absolutely true.
3.For a professional to not inform a patient is receiving a drug for which purpose, and branding by the FDA, was not for and intended for abortion is again ill informing a patient. The branding of MTX was for neoplastic reasons, specifically child leukemia.
4. Somg does not answer the question from my asking for a screening of diseases and not organs. Failure to understand a simple question is indicative of a lack of concern of disease being present in a patient which may effect his patient by the administering of a drug which blocks cell proliferation throughout the body.Screen for anemia quackman?
A quack with a needle or drug in his possesion, failing to inform , is a danger to patients. They just might bleed to death after being assured that bleeding is natural and come back in a week idiot. Did you inform your patients, or this board, of the adverse symptoms of MTX is bleeding,pale skin, bruising, nausea, vomiting, coughing up blood, black or bloody stools?
No, SOMG did not inform when writing those words I quoted. Although this might explain why abortion patients die after leaving a quack’s office failing to inform a patient and this board of adverse reactions to MTX.
After all, they don’t need to know anything but “what will happen”, and that doesn’t mean informing a young female of the actions of MTX. What a dangerous quack we have prescribing and recommending MTX at this board.
5. See above.
6. See above
7. Gets the ill informed patient out faster and that means more money SOMG.
8. At least you know that SOMG.
10. MTX is labeled as a drug for the treatment
of RhA, psoriasis, and neoplastic diseases. Since SoMg fails to answer question 10, which was directly asked this person who gives pharmaceutical judgement on MTX, and fails to answer a easy question of mg amounts by oral administration of MTX as labeled by the FDA for its intended purpose, one must conclude SOMG is ignorant of the purpose of MTX as labeled by the FDA. A person being administered MTX for trophoblastic(cell development, which the fetus is also “in”) diseases receives 15 to 30 mg daily for five days. MTX pills come in 2.5 mg pill form, 5mg, 7.5, 10mg, and 15mg.
Leukemia; 3.3mg/m2. Keep note of this amount of MTX using body mass squared, as compared to 50mg/m2 for medical abortion. SOMG writes that medical abortion is not a megadose of MTX as a ratio to labeled use by the FDA. Again we must assume a quackman is making up facts to suit his killing profession.
RhA adult; single dose 7.5mg once weekly
Psoriasis; 10 to 25mg per week.
Already we have established that SOMG is giving a dose of MTX far greater in one dose, for which MTX is not labeled for by the FDA. Of course this abortion doc did not answer question 10 from his ignorance of other fields and specialties of the medical arts, that use MTX as it was labeled for.
Think about how isolated this SOMG is from other doctors, having nothing to do with a person using a drug, and having no idea of its intended and purposeful branding by the FDA.
11. Here the ignorance of a medical doctor comes fae to face with the lack of training and education in med school. Care to tell the board how many hours of med school is devoted to pharmacology SOMG? Much less the lack of never using your mind to think critically about a drug, after becoming a mindless doctor of minor surgery and endless days of healing by death? A percentage answer might be a good answer to the total hours of med school education devoted to pharmacy “in getin” degree in as a plain old “doctor of medicine”. One course devoted to pharmocolgy amongst the many courses in med school and poof, SOMG pontifiates,prescribes,and recommends MTX as equal to a non-prescription drug. Or at least left this board ill informed of the actions and properties of MTX.
Following the protocol of which SOMG agrees he give a uninformed patient of 50mg/m2 dose of MTX, we shall take a women of 120lbs, who is 66 inches in height, which gives us a BSA of 1.59. 1.59 x 50mg = 79.5 mg dose of MTX for a medical abortion. SOMG single dose of MTX is greater by a factor of three the amount given daily for psoriasis.
RhA; ten times the amount of MTX is given in a medical abortion as compared to the labeled use for MTX and RhA.
Again we compare the use of MTX for leukemia and find SOMG giving a megadose of MTX through the fact of 3.3mg to 50mg. Hey quackman, google the ratio or ask Bobby Bambino for that ratio.
Take a women of 150lbs and a height of 5’9″ and the dose is figured as 91mg of MTX for a medical abortion.
No person receiving MTX as it was labeled and intended for in treatment of their disease receives a mega dose of MTX, as compared to the so called doctor who wrote that he gives “mini doses” of MTX to his patients. Fact is SOMG gives “mega doses of MTX” and either did not know that, or is trying to omit information to his patients and this board—–again.
11. No answer to the question.
So, what are the effects on a person receiving a chemical which is “mega dosed” to a ill informed, deceived by ommision, patient of SOMG? My conjecture is they’re the ones that die a few days after this so pharmacist dispensing doktor, has filled them full of a chemical which they, and SOMG, had no idea could end their life through stopping the development of cells in their bodies by a antimetabolite.
yllas:
It works and that is all I need to know, and the less I know, the less I can be sued, from being as ignorant as the patient. Another words, SOMG wants and encourages ignorance as a medical professional.
Abortionists play on the ignorance of women. It is the only way they can continue to commit abortion. In fact, they are counting on the ignorance of women.
Failure to understand a simple question is indicative of a lack of concern of disease being present in a patient which may effect his patient by the administering of a drug…
It’s also well known that abortionists do not do a complete medical history prior to an abortion. Why? Because there are no dangers in having an abortion. Abortion is safer than childbirth, remember that yllas. Women’s bodies were designed (evolved) to abort their babies rather than give birth.
Bethany, you wrote: “Didn’t you say that you work on only the high risk patients- those coming in for their second abortion, at least? ”
Oh dear you really did misunderstand. I said that all my patients are already sexually active–by the time they get their post-abortion b/c counselling they have already had one abortion–the one they came to me for.
I never meant to suggest that I only do abortions on women who have already had abortions. When you first suggested you thought I meant that I thought you were joking.
Patricia, sure PP expects all teens to be sexually active. And the reason they do abortions is, they want women to get breast cancer. The chemotherapy people and the mastectomy people pay them kickbacks for increasing their workloads (sarcasm).
Patricia.
The reason I wrote the original post was in response to SOMG always declaring pro lifers omit, commit acts of leaving out information always, and other half truths in promotion of his career of killing human beings. SOMG ill informed and committed acts of ommision and commision about MTX.
Any study by PL, deceptive, omiting facts, and ill informing others about the medical arts.
But, a person reading the post of SOMG and his statement about MTX, is getting little to no information about MTX, except it is used as a drug to abort a human being .
Some person might be reading his post and go and buy MTX(the internet is filled with such scum) and dose themselves, or a unknowing person who is given a dose of MTX for the reason of wanting a abortion for that unknowing person. Such as a boyfriend getting the idea to use MTX for abortion via the ill informing SOMG. How many people read Jill Stanek, Patricia?
SOMG did not even inform that MTX is a drug of prescription. No information, which is why I asked my questions to this ill informing medical professional. Such post being allowed is being a conduit for a person dying from taking MTX with no info, but what SOMG gave out. Since MTX is available to people with RhA, and psoriasis, some young person reading SOMG might easily take MTX out of “grandma’s medicine cabinet” or dad and mom’s pill box. Or, imagine a sister who has sibling with leukemia and reading SOMG’s post about his “sibling’s medicine” can be used to abort a fetus. What a quack and a dangerous posting quack at this site. Afterall, script drugs are being taken from from mom and dad’s medicine cabinet by their teenage children, and is on the rise.
How irresponsible for a licensed professional to throw out information with no warnings about that drug. Even a electrician would not be soo ill informing,omitting of basic information towards his profession, and his professionalism. Just get some wire and hook it into that box over there.
SOMG, since I know you will not respond to Yllas’s post directly, I want to try reposting it…hopefully, you will continue responding to my reposts. I am rewording some of Yllas’ posts just a bit, if that’s okay, because I really want SOMG to read it thoroughly and I know he won’t otherwise.
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Somg, you did not answer the question from Yllas’s post, asking whether you do the screening of diseases and not organs.
Having a needle or drug in your possession, and failing to inform, is a danger to your patients.
They just might bleed to death after being assured that bleeding is natural and come back in a week.
SOMG, did you inform your patients, or this board, of the adverse symptoms of MTX: bleeding, pale skin, bruising, nausea, vomiting, coughing up blood, black or bloody stools?
No, you did not inform anyone of these symptoms of MTX.
(Although this might explain why abortion patients die after leaving a quack who failed to inform the patient and this board of adverse reactions to MTX.)
After all, they don’t need to know anything but “what will happen”, and that doesn’t mean informing a young female of the actions of MTX, does it?
What a dangerous quack we have prescribing and recommending MTX at this board.
MTX is labeled as a drug for the treatment
of RhA, psoriasis, and neoplastic diseases.
SOMG, you failed to answer question 10, which was a fairly simple question for someone who gives a pharmaceutical judgement on MTX on this blog. You failed to answer a simple question of mg amounts by oral administration of MTX as labeled by the FDA for it’s original purpose.
A person being administered MTX for trophoblastic (cell development, which the fetus is also “in”) diseases receives 15 to 30 mg daily for five days.
MTX pills come in
2.5 mg pill form,
5mg,
7.5,
10mg,
and 15mg.
Leukemia; 3.3mg/m2.
Keep note of this amount of MTX (using body mass squared), as compared to 50mg/m2 for medical abortion.
SOMG, you wrote that medical abortion is not a megadose of MTX as a ratio to labeled use by the FDA.
Again we must assume a quackman is making up facts to suit his killing profession.
RhA adult; single dose 7.5mg once weekly
Psoriasis; 10 to 25mg per week.
Already we have established that SOMG is giving a dose of MTX far greater in one dose, for which MTX is not labeled for by the FDA.
Of course, you did not answer question 10 from his ignorance of other fields and specialties of the medical arts, that use MTX as it was labeled for.
Question 11. Here, the ignorance of a medical doctor comes face to face with the lack of training and education in med school. Care to tell the board how many hours of medical school is devoted to pharmacology, SOMG?
Much less the lack of never using your mind to think critically about a drug, after becoming a mindless doctor of minor surgery and endless days of healing by death?
Following the protocol of which SOMG agrees, he gives a uninformed patient of 50mg/m2 dose of MTX.
Let’s take a women of 120lbs, who is 66 inches in height, which gives us a BSA of 1.59. 1.59 x 50mg = 79.5 mg dose of MTX for a medical abortion.
SOMG’s single dose of MTX is greater by a factor of three the amount given daily for psoriasis!
RhA; ten times the amount of MTX is given in a medical abortion as compared to the labeled use for MTX and RhA.
Again we compare the use of MTX for leukemia and find SOMG giving a megadose of MTX through the fact of 3.3mg to 50mg.
SOMG, google the ratio or ask Bobby Bambino for that ratio.
Take a women of 150lbs and a height of 5’9″ and the dose is figured as 91mg of MTX for a medical abortion.
No person receiving MTX as it was labeled and intended for in treatment of their disease receives a mega dose of MTX, as compared to the so called doctor who wrote that he gives “mini doses” of MTX to his patients. Fact is SOMG gives “mega doses of MTX” and either did not know that, or is trying to omit information to his patients and this board—–again.
SOMG, what are the effects on an ill informed (and deceived by ommision) patient receiving a chemical which is “mega dosed”?
My conjecture is they’re the ones that die a few days after this pharmacist dispensing doctor has filled them full of a chemical which they (and you, SOMG) had no idea could end their life through stopping the development of cells in their bodies by a anti-metabolite.
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Yllas, that was an excellent post, by the way.
I am learning so much through these posts.
Sorry, Bethany, you do not make yllas’ post any less hostile and incoherent by copying it.
If you remove phrases like “What a dangerous quack we have prescribing and recommending MTX at this board”, I MIGHT answer.
Okay, I’ll do that.
Here you go…let me know if I should remove anything else, and I will. And if I missed any, I apologize- think I got them all.
*******************************************
Somg, you did not answer the question from Yllas’s post, asking whether you do the screening of diseases and not organs.
Having a needle or drug in your possession, and failing to inform, is a danger to your patients.
They just might bleed to death after being assured that bleeding is natural and come back in a week.
SOMG, did you inform your patients, or this board, of the adverse symptoms of MTX: bleeding, pale skin, bruising, nausea, vomiting, coughing up blood, black or bloody stools?
As far as I can tell, you did not inform anyone of these symptoms of MTX.
MTX is labeled as a drug for the treatment
of RhA, psoriasis, and neoplastic diseases.
SOMG, you did not give a direct answer question 10, which was a fairly simple question for someone who gives a pharmaceutical judgement on MTX on this blog. You failed to answer a simple question of mg amounts by oral administration of MTX as labeled by the FDA for it’s original purpose.
A person being administered MTX for trophoblastic (cell development, which the fetus is also “in”) diseases receives 15 to 30 mg daily for five days.
MTX pills come in
2.5 mg pill form,
5mg,
7.5,
10mg,
and 15mg.
Leukemia; 3.3mg/m2.
Keep note of this amount of MTX (using body mass squared), as compared to 50mg/m2 for medical abortion.
SOMG, you wrote that medical abortion is not a megadose of MTX as a ratio to labeled use by the FDA.
Are you making up facts to suit your profession?
RhA adult; single dose 7.5mg once weekly
Psoriasis; 10 to 25mg per week.
Already we have established that SOMG is giving a dose of MTX far greater in one dose, for which MTX is not labeled for by the FDA.
Of course, you did not answer question 10 from his ignorance of other fields and specialties of the medical arts, that use MTX as it was labeled for.
Question 11. Here, the ignorance of a medical doctor comes face to face with the lack of training and education in med school. Care to tell the board how many hours of medical school is devoted to pharmacology, SOMG?
Following the protocol of which SOMG agrees, he gives a uninformed patient of 50mg/m2 dose of MTX.
Let’s take a women of 120lbs, who is 66 inches in height, which gives us a BSA of 1.59. 1.59 x 50mg = 79.5 mg dose of MTX for a medical abortion.
SOMG’s single dose of MTX is greater by a factor of three the amount given daily for psoriasis!
RhA; ten times the amount of MTX is given in a medical abortion as compared to the labeled use for MTX and RhA.
Again we compare the use of MTX for leukemia and find SOMG giving a megadose of MTX through the fact of 3.3mg to 50mg.
SOMG, google the ratio or ask Bobby Bambino for that ratio.
Take a women of 150lbs and a height of 5’9″ and the dose is figured as 91mg of MTX for a medical abortion.
No person receiving MTX as it was labeled and intended for in treatment of their disease receives a mega dose of MTX, as compared to the so called doctor who wrote that he gives “mini doses” of MTX to his patients. It appears that SOMG gives “mega doses of MTX” and either did not know that, or is trying to omit information to his patients and this board.
SOMG, what are the effects on an ill informed (and deceived by ommision) patient receiving a chemical which is “mega dosed”?
My conjecture is they’re the ones that die a few days after this pharmacist dispensing doctor has filled them full of a chemical which they (and you, SOMG) had no idea could end their life through stopping the development of cells in their bodies by a anti-metabolite.
***********************************************
@ Bobby:
suggest you start reading some AA Milne to Gianna – Winnie the Pooh. TTFN used by Winchell when voicing Tigger.
Phylosopher, I always think of Tigger when I hear TTFN! lol
OK, Bethany, here goes.
“Somg, you did not answer the question from Yllas’s post, asking whether you do the screening of diseases and not organs.”
The standard form all patients fill out includes questions about whether they have a coagulopathy or current severe anemia; acute or chronic renal or hepatic disease (does this count as a question about “disease” or about “organs”? You’ll have to ask yllas what (s)he meant, if anything.); acute inflammatory bowel disease; or uncontrolled seizure disorders.
“Having a needle or drug in your possession, and failing to inform, is a danger to your patients.”
Can anyone figure out what this sentence means? This is an example of what I mean when I call yllas’ posts “incoherent”.
“SOMG, did you inform your patients, or this board, of the adverse symptoms of MTX: bleeding, pale skin, bruising, nausea, vomiting, coughing up blood, black or bloody stools?”
Except for nausea and vomiting, all these are rare unless you take MTX regularly over time. Chemo patients get them, not abortion patients. We do inform patients about nausea and vomiting.
“Care to tell the board how many hours of medical school is devoted to pharmacology, SOMG?”
Well, there’s the pharmacology course in second year, it’s a full course. Also the biochem course first year includes some pharm as it relates to basic biochem. (Med-school biochem is an awful course because in order to accomodate the English majors they have removed all the problem-solving from the course and basically teach it as an all-memorization course with multiple-choice tests requiring regurgitation, no thinking. But I digress.) Finally, you need to know a ton of pharm including drug mechanisms and drug-elimination mechanisms to pass the boards.
(Did you hear why Jesus never finished med school? He got nailed on the boards!)
“Much less the lack of never using your mind to think critically about a drug, after becoming a mindless doctor of minor surgery and endless days of healing by death?”
Bethany, you promised to remove this sort of thing.
“SOMG’s single dose of MTX is greater by a factor of three the amount given daily for psoriasis!”
That doesn’t make it a “mega-dose”. The psoriasis dose, as you astutely observe, is given every day. Single use and lifetime daily use are so different that it’s pointless even to compare them.
Chemo patients typically get 15-30 mg per day for five days. That’s 75-150 mg total. See http://www.drugs.com/pro/methotrexate-injection.html
“SOMG, what are the effects on an ill informed (and deceived by ommision) patient receiving a chemical which is “mega dosed”?”
Three lies of commission in this sentence: “ill informed”, “deceived by omission”, and “mega dosed”.
“My conjecture is they’re the ones that die a few days after this pharmacist dispensing doctor has filled them full of a chemical which they (and you, SOMG) had no idea could end their life through stopping the development of cells in their bodies by a anti-metabolite.”
Methotrexate abortion kills the patient about as often as surgical abortion which is less than one patient death per hundred thousand abortions. To mention patient death without saying this is a lie of omission, or (let’s be charitable) in yllas’ case maybe the cause is ignorance or ADHD or just general goofiness rather than a coherent desire to lie.
Phylo and Bethany,
I gotta tell ya’ll, I’m quite skeptical of that Pooh character. He’s always trying to obtain honey, constantly barging into his friend’s houses and stealing their honey, ditching his friend to go look for honey, etc. I think all his friends have to hide the honey they do have cause they know Pooh will eat it all.
But I do like doing voices, so I’ll probably read some to her sometime. I just don’t want to give her the impression that it’s OK to walk into someone’s house unannounced and begin searching through their cupboards for honey, hehe…
Yeah, but that’s the idea. Read…and discuss.
The standard form all patients fill out includes questions about whether they have a coagulopathy or current severe anemia; acute or chronic renal or hepatic disease (does this count as a question about “disease” or about “organs”? You’ll have to ask yllas what (s)he meant, if anything.); acute inflammatory bowel disease; or uncontrolled seizure disorders.
All patients in your particular clinic/s, or just patients in general?
Can anyone figure out what this sentence means? This is an example of what I mean when I call yllas’ posts “incoherent”.
“Having a needle or drug in your possession, and failing to inform, is a danger to your patients.”
I could be wrong, but I understood it to mean that you prescribe drugs without informing the patient fully of what it can do to their body…which is why it would be a danger to your patients.
Except for nausea and vomiting, all these are rare unless you take MTX regularly over time. Chemo patients get them, not abortion patients. We do inform patients about nausea and vomiting.
Even if it is rare, shouldn’t your patients have the right to be informed that it is a possibility? Every time I got an epidural or was induced for labor with my children, I was informed of the 1 percent chance of the very bad scenarios that could go wrong during the process. I remember the doctors telling me that it was very, very rare, but the epidural could cause paralyzation, and did I still want to go through with it? (and that is a 1 in 150,000 risk, from what I found through googling it!). Why do your patients not deserve to be given the same information about the drugs they are going to be putting in their bodies?
Bobby, I have the same problem with Jack and the Beanstalk. lol I never have understood what in the world the moral of that story was supposed to be!
But when I read it to the kids, I just tell them, Now, do you think it was okay for Jack to steal from the ogre after sneaking into his home? And they say no. Phylo is right…read and discuss. ;-)
Bethany, screening for the counterindications I mentioned is standard practice.
So “having a needle or drug in your possessiong” now means the same as “prescribing a drug”???? Maybe in yllas-speak.
Bethany, there isn’t time to tell patients about ALL possible rare side effects. That would be an unmanagable amount of information.
That doesn’t make it a “mega-dose”. The psoriasis dose, as you astutely observe, is given every day. Single use and lifetime daily use are so different that it’s pointless even to compare them.
SOMG, if it is triple the amount that you would take in a single dose for any FDA allowed use for the drug, how could it be anything other than a mega dose?
A mega dose is simply defined as “a large dose”.
Dose is defined as “a measured portion of medicine taken at any one time“.
Bethany, screening for the counterindications I mentioned is standard practice.
I realize this, SOMG, but this is (I believe) the third time you have not directly answered the question.
What I want to know is— does your clinic/s follow what you have admitted is standard practice, and does your clinic screen for the counterindications?
So “having a needle or drug in your possessiong” now means the same as “prescribing a drug”???? Maybe in yllas-speak.
Just read between the lines.
Bethany, there isn’t time to tell patients about ALL possible rare side effects. That would be an unmanagable amount of information.
All of the ones you know of, SOMG, is all that you would need to tell them. The list that Yllas gave was short and simple. Wouldn’t take but a moment to tell them of those.
*contraindications
Bethany, ok then, maybe it is a mega-dose. At this point it’s a matter of semantics. To me the phrase “mega-dose” implies something dangerous, and certainly more than a three-fold increase. In science the prefix “mega” means a million times greater (as in “megaparsec”, or the slang term “megabucks” which some lucky scientists use when talking about grant money). But as I say it’s a matter of semantics.
Bethany, your question was “All patients in your particular clinic/s, or just patients in general? ”
I thought that describing the screening as “standard practice” answered this question. Here’s another answer: Both.
You wrote: ” The list that Yllas gave was short and simple. Wouldn’t take but a moment to tell them of those.”
It also wouldn’t make any difference. Not in real life.
Okay, I appreciate you conceding that it is a megadose. However, I think you are being deceptive in the second half of your post.
Earlier in our conversation you said this:
“I believe MTX is “branded” (I prefer the word “approved”) for two uses: chemotherapy and treatment of autoimmune disease (which means mostly rhumatoid arthritis). The abortifacient dose is one fifth the chemotheraputic dose–a mini-dose, not a mega-dose. I’m not sure what dose is used for rhumatoid arthritis but the patient takes it regularly for his whole life unless he develops an allergy”
This, to me, implies you DID understand exactly what yllas meant when he said “mega dose”. That you did not infer that he was speaking of “millions of times greater”.
Then, in reply…you said that it was a “mini-dose”..(in that it was smaller than the average dose for chemo. At least, according to you.)
You can say it’s all semantics, but I think that you are the one playing semantics games, not yllas.
It also wouldn’t make any difference. Not in real life.
It would make a BIG difference to me, as a patient, SOMG. Even in prescription drug commercials, every known side effect has to be listed…even if the commercial goes on and on and on.
Tell me, SOMG, if a woman takes Methotrexate, and later dies of complications which arose due to the methotrexate, is the reason for death always known to be “abortion”?
Or is usually the complication sometimes listed as the reason for death, and not the drug itself?
What do you think?
Bethany, in the case you describe, the patient would fail to show up for her second office visit (for the post-abortion ultrasound to verify that the uterus is really empty). The doc’s office would make inquiries and discover the death. The law would then require the doc to report an abortion-related patient death to his/her state government agency.
Bethany, in the case you describe, the patient would fail to show up for her second office visit (for the post-abortion ultrasound to verify that the uterus is really empty). The doc’s office would make inquiries and discover the death. The law would then require the doc to report an abortion-related patient death to his/her state government agency.
And what if the death from complications occurred after that second office visit, SOMG?
Bethany, in that case it wasn’t because of the methotrexate, which is cleared from the body by then.
I’m quite skeptical of that Pooh character. He’s always trying to obtain honey, constantly barging into his friend’s houses and stealing their honey
Bobby, you’re right – Pooh Bear is like a modern car-jacker.
SOMG, I think you misunderstood my question.
Isn’t it very possible that a woman could develop a complication from the methotrexate, and that complication could linger after the methotrexate is out of her system, and she could die from that complication at a later time?
Now, if this was to happen, isn’t it also possible that the complication might be listed as the reason for her death, and NOT the abortion?
And if so, wouldn’t this mean that it is possible that many, many more women die from abortion than are reported?
By the way, are you required to report complications in your state?
Bobby, you’re right – Pooh Bear is like a modern car-jacker.
Patricia, sure PP expects all teens to be sexually active. And the reason they do abortions is, they want women to get breast cancer. The chemotherapy people and the mastectomy people pay them kickbacks for increasing their workloads.
Posted by: SoMG at June 25, 2008 7:23 AM
Halleluiah! Finally you’ve come to your senses SoMG and see the light!
Some synapses are finally firing!
Bethany, in the case you describe, the patient would fail to show up for her second office visit (for the post-abortion ultrasound to verify that the uterus is really empty). The doc’s office would make inquiries and discover the death. The law would then require the doc to report an abortion-related patient death to his/her state government agency.
Posted by: SoMG at June 25, 2008 12:01 PM
Nope. This is not what happens. It might be the law but it is not what happens. When a patient dies, the hospital is the one who reports the death and it is not due to abortion, the cause is listed as whatever the woman was admitted for example: bleeding etc.
@Bethany: What you neglected to post is a picture of Pooh stalking Barney. How I detest Barney! God forgive me!!
Bethany, you wrote: “Isn’t it very possible that a woman could develop a complication from the methotrexate, and that complication could linger after the methotrexate is out of her system, and she could die from that complication at a later time? ”
That is possible but not “very possible”. That is, it’s an extremely unlikely scenario. We know this from clinical trials of methotrexate, and of methotrexate abortion.
You wrote: “Now, if this was to happen, isn’t it also possible that the complication might be listed as the reason for her death, and NOT the abortion? ”
Yes, I suppose that is technically possible. It would depend on whether or not the patient was able to tell the ER personnel about the abortion. If she did, they’d tell us and/or report the abortion-related death to the state. If she was unconscious when admitted or DOA, they might know anyway, if she had an electronic chart in the system, but they might not.
You wrote: “And if so, wouldn’t this mean that it is possible that many, many more women die from abortion than are reported?”
No, not “many, many” more. It’s too unlikely a scenario. There might be some non-zero number of unreported abortion-related patient deaths such as you describe, but not a significant number. Your thinking is good, though. I’m impressed.
You wrote: “By the way, are you required to report complications in your state? ”
If they result in a hospital admission, yes. Otherwise no.
Patricia, you wrote: “When a patient dies, the hospital is the one who reports the death and it is not due to abortion, the cause is listed as whatever the woman was admitted for example: bleeding etc.”
The cause in a case like Bethany’s would probably be listed as bleeding, etc, SECONDARY TO INDUCED ABORTION. If the ER people knew about the abortion, that is.
If a patient told the ER personnel that I had done an abortion for her and then she died of anything that might have been a complication of the abortion (ie not from a car accident or whatever), the ER people would certainly let me know. Also, her family would sue me.
Yes, I suppose that is technically possible. It would depend on whether or not the patient was able to tell the ER personnel about the abortion. If she did, they’d tell us and/or report the abortion-related death to the state. If she was unconscious when admitted or DOA, they might know anyway, if she had an electronic chart in the system, but they might not.
You SUPPOSE this is technically possible. How can you be so clueless!?? You know darn well this is EXACTLY what happens. This is one of the reasons why abortion research is so difficult to do. Patient follow-up is virtually non-existent. When you kill you baby, the last person you want to see again is the doctor who colluded with you.
You wrote: “By the way, are you required to report complications in your state? “
If they result in a hospital admission, yes. Otherwise no.
Posted by: SoMG at June 25, 2008 3:12 PM
This is why it is so difficult Bethany to accurately know the complication rate from abortions.
Bethany if you wish to really understand abortion research I can provide you with an excellent scientific reference. The reading will shock you.
If a patient told the ER personnel that I had done an abortion for her and then she died of anything that might have been a complication of the abortion (ie not from a car accident or whatever), the ER people would certainly let me know. Also, her family would sue me.
Posted by: SoMG at June 25, 2008 3:21 PM
By the time most women show up in emerg they are just trying to survive SoMG.
What you don’t know though, is how many women whose fertility you have negatively affected. The connection between your abortion and a woman’s infertility may not be made for years, if ever. How comforting for you eh? They can’t sue you then.
No problem, Patricia….glad to do it. I always hated barney too. lol
http://www.preciousinfants.com/poohbad3.jpg
Patricia, I also detest Barney the Purple Dinosaur. However, Congressman Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts) has long been my very favorite member of Congress. Have you ever heard him speak or debate (he appears with reasonable frequency on cspan; also on Bill Maher)? He can say 100 words, grammatically and coherently, in the time it takes an ordinary person to say ten words, and the number of ideas/points/arguments he packs into a given number of words is higher than normal too. Because so many points go by so quickly, his opponents almost always end up trying to interrupt him–they’re afraid of forgetting some of his points before he finishes talking. When they do this, he humiliates them with this line: “Please. I didn’t interrupt you when you were speaking. Just sit and listen until it’s your turn.” It’s quite hilarious.
The only time I ever laughed louder while watching c-span was one time after the Waco cult raid. The Republicans (all puffed up and confident from winning their House and Senate majorities) were staging congressional hearings on the raid, hoping to embarrass Janet Reno and Clinton, and they got a girl who had actually been a member of the cult to testify. Well, part of her testimony turned out to be about how David Koresh deflowered her when she was eleven years old, and she said: “When I first met David he told his friends he was especially pleased because young girls like me have really tight p*****s that grip his d***k really tightly.” I nearly soiled my underwear. Representative Bill McCullum (R-Fla.) who was chairing the hearing turned absolutely purple and hastily stammered a belated warning to viewers that the testimony might be graphic. Looking as if butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth, she said: “Congressman, these are David’s words, not mine.”
Patricia, you’re more than welcome to email me anytime. You can find my email on the sidebar. ;)
Patricia, you wrote: “Bethany if you wish to really understand abortion research I can provide you with an excellent scientific reference. The reading will shock you.”
Please post the excellent scientific reference. I want to be shocked too.
(Seriously, I’d like to see it, if only to see what you mean by “an excellent scientific reference”.)
SoMG: what is the purpose of your 3:51pm post?
Oops, Patricia…I see that you said “stalked”, not “strangled”. lol
Patricia, the purpose was to show that I don’t hate ALL Barneys, just the dinosaur.
What about this excellent scientific reference?
That is possible but not “very possible”. That is, it’s an extremely unlikely scenario. We know this from clinical trials of methotrexate, and of methotrexate abortion.
How many trials were done, and how many individuals participated in the trials? Can I see the research?
SOMG, how long after the MTX injection (or pill) does the “miscarriage” take place?
And also, how long after you give the woman the Methotrexate is follow up visit generally scheduled for? I think you said the time above somewhere but I can’t find it.
well, Bethany, I don’t want to be toooo violent, but stalked is rather POLITE.
I’d like to do other more violent things to Barney. A prolife blog is NOT the place to describe such actions.
I love you. You love me………choke, choke
LOL Patricia :D
Isn’t there a Baby Bop as well?
Patricia, you wrote: “What you don’t know though, is how many women whose fertility you have negatively affected. The connection between your abortion and a woman’s infertility may not be made for years, if ever. ”
I refer you to: Atrash HK, Hogue CJ. The effect of pregnancy termination on future reproduction. Baillieres Clin Obstet Gynaecol. 1990;4:391-405.
Money quote: “Except in the case where an infection complicates induced abortion, there is no evidence of an association between induced abortion and secondary infertility or ectopic pregnancy….In conclusion, except for the association between pregnancies following dilatation and evacuation procedures and premature delivery and low birthweight, no significantly increased risk of adverse reproductive health has been observed following induced abortion.”
Where is your “excellent scientific reference”? If you don’t post it, everyone here will rightfully infer that you are afraid to do so because you know that it is not in fact an excellent scientific reference and that I will recognise this when/if I read it. Do you enjoy being laughed at?
Bethany, you wrote: “How many trials were done, and how many individuals participated in the trials? Can I see the research?”
You can probably find reports of the methotrexate abortion clinical trials by googling. The trials for other indications (including ectopic pregancy) are probably too old.
“SOMG, how long after the MTX injection (or pill) does the “miscarriage” take place? ”
Hours to days. Partly it depends what you mean by the “miscarriage”. Do you mean fetal demise, or expulsion?
“And also, how long after you give the woman the Methotrexate is follow up visit generally scheduled for? ”
Three days to a week.
Sorry SoMG: I’m not biting. I already posted my reference eons ago, which you refused to discuss and simply left the board without explanation. BTW it was maybe the 3 or 4th scientific reference you blew off. When you are really and truly seeking the truth, SoMG, then I will be interested. I have a life too you know.
Not interested in your games. If it wasn’t good enough for you then, it won’t be now.
I have a gr 12 grad to attend!
Congrats to my son who’s on his way to university! Yeah!
You can probably find reports of the methotrexate abortion clinical trials by googling. The trials for other indications (including ectopic pregancy) are probably too old.
Okay, I’ll do that.
“SOMG, how long after the MTX injection (or pill) does the “miscarriage” take place? ”
Hours to days. Partly it depends what you mean by the “miscarriage”. Do you mean fetal demise, or expulsion?
I mean expulsion.
“And also, how long after you give the woman the Methotrexate is follow up visit generally scheduled for? ”
Three days to a week.
Three days to a week? Really? And there are no more visits after this?
Congratulations, Patricia! :)
Bethany, expulsion is induced by self-administration of misoprostol two days after getting the mtx.
After the second visit there are no more visits unless the abortion fails. In this case we repeat the misoprostol and the patient comes back again to verify successful emptying of the uterus. If the second attempt fails too we do a suction abortion.
Patricia, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA ROTFL
you are SUCH a BS artist. You should be in the big leagues with Michael Behe, David C. Reardon, and Joel Brind.
And Jill Stanek.
Have you ever considered a career in the Church?
Doseage is a science.
Again, SOMG did not know the doseage amounts of the labeled use of MTX. He had no idea that his practice of medical abortion is the largest dose of a antimetabolite given to patients.
SOMG actually was ill informing, this board that his administering of MTX was a “less amount” of MTX then the labeled use of MTX. He lied, or made that statement to ill inform this board of a prescription drug.
Bethany, expulsion is induced by self-administration of misoprostol two days after getting the mtx.
Are you saying that it is induced immediately after the self administration of misoprostol?
After the second visit there are no more visits unless the abortion fails. In this case we repeat the misoprostol and the patient comes back again to verify successful emptying of the uterus. If the second attempt fails too we do a suction abortion.
Why is the second office visit scheduled so soon after giving the woman the methotrexate, SOMG. Wouldn’t you need to wait at least 2 weeks?
“The “miscarriage” after the MTX injection occurs anywhere from two to six weeks later, when the uterus expels the fetus. Passing the tissue is unpredictable. It may occur any time, day or night, any place.”
The above quote came from the Feminists Women’s Health Center. Are they lying?
****
By the way, do you supply women with folic acid supplements after giving them the methotrexate?
Also, is an ultrasound the only method by which you determine whether the uterus has been emptied? Do you also do blood tests?
Well, there’s the pharmacology course in second year, it’s a full course. Also the biochem course first year includes some pharm as it relates to basic biochem. (Med-school biochem is an awful course because in order to accomodate the English majors they have removed all the problem-solving from the course and basically teach it as an all-memorization course with multiple-choice tests requiring regurgitation, no thinking. But I digress.) Finally, you need to know a ton of pharm including drug mechanisms and drug-elimination mechanisms to pass the boards. Words of SOMG
No answer to the direct question of how much time is spent in pharmocology verus the total time of med school. Can be expressed as a percentage very easily. And was asked directly to respond as a percentile of total time of med school courses verus pharm course time.
Just as there is one course in neurology in med school,does not prepare a “doctor of medicine”, a M.D. to practice neurology after graduating med school.
But that professional phrase of “you gotta know a ton of pharm…….” takes the cake in unprofessional answers to simple questions asked this plain jane doctor of medicine, concerning a simple question of percentage.
Translation; He thinks your ignorant of med school courses, and his superior secrets of med school courses is “none of your businees”. Arrogance compounded by secrets of med school should stop you from asking SOMG simple questions about med school.
Well gotta go and take my ATLS course to keep my licence up to date. You know, those doctors of medicine who actually perform healing medicine and decisions which pick up the pieces of your work at the ER. Seems they got that simple doctor of medicine degree, and then continued to be edumacteed and tested to keep their specialized medical degree which goes beyound a simple doctor of medicine. Take any state exams to keep your abortion license up to date SOMG?
SOMG scratches his head and thinks, what’s a ATLS course, and who administers the course which passes or fails those doctors of medicine.
The above post was from, Yllas. Don’t read it SOMG.
Bethany, the purpose of the misoprostol is to induce expulsion of the uterine contents. That’s what it does–within minutes or at most hours after self-administration (which can be oral or vaginal).
You would only need to wait two weeks (actually you’d need to wait longer) if you omitted the misoprostol (did a methotrexate-only abortion) which no one does, although if you did it soon after conception–using methotrexate as a sort of morning-after pill you can take up to a month after unprotected intercourse–the fetus would be so small you wouldn’t notice it. You might have a somewhat heavier, chunky-style menses. The Feminist Women’s Health Center is not lying, they are talking about methotrexate-only abortion. I wonder why they talk about that since as I say no one does them in the USA. Maybe it’s for readers the Third World. The main reason for giving misoprostol is to control when expulsion occurs. (It also increases the success rate a little.)
“By the way, do you supply women with folic acid supplements after giving them the methotrexate? ”
Nope. Not necessary.
“Also, is an ultrasound the only method by which you determine whether the uterus has been emptied? Do you also do blood tests? ”
Ultrasound only. Blood tests would not tell you whether or not the uterus was empty.
The above post was from, Yllas. Don’t read it SOMG.
LOL!
The Feminist Women’s Health Center is not lying, they are talking about methotrexate-only abortion. I wonder why they talk about that since as I say no one does them in the USA. Maybe it’s for readers the Third World. The main reason for giving misoprostol is to control when expulsion occurs. (It also increases the success rate a little.)
Okay I checked it out and I was wrong about that one.
Ultrasound only. Blood tests would not tell you whether or not the uterus was empty.
Posted by: SoMG at June 25, 2008 6:42 PM
When I was having my last two miscarriages, the doctors kept me coming back every week to check my HCG levels with blood tests, and did not stop checking them until they had dropped below 5. This is how they said that they could tell that all of the tissues had left the uterus. They said this way is much more reliable than a simple ultrasound.
yllas (I actually got curious and read your post) you wrote “No answer to the direct question of how much time is spent in pharmocology verus the total time of med school. Can be expressed as a percentage very easily. And was asked directly to respond as a percentile of total time of med school courses verus pharm course time. ”
Sorry, I don’t remember the number of hours in the courses and I’m too lazy to go look it up. I posted what I do remember. If that’s not enough for you, too bad.
You wrote: “Just as there is one course in neurology in med school,does not prepare a “doctor of medicine”, a M.D. to practice neurology after graduating med school.”
That’s why we do residencies.
You wrote: “He thinks your ignorant of med school courses, and his superior secrets of med school courses is “none of your businees”. Arrogance compounded by secrets of med school should stop you from asking SOMG simple questions about med school. ”
This sort of unwarrented hostility is one of the reasons I stopped reading your posts. (The other reason is they are ungrammatical, often so much so that their meaning cannot be determined. I guess there’s a third reason: the ideas in them have not been very interesting.) I think I have so far answered questions on this board pretty patiently. Especially considering how stupid some of them have been.
You wrote: “Take any state exams to keep your abortion license up to date SOMG? ”
Yes, we all have to where I live. The exams have very little about abortion and don’t much emphasize epidemiology so it’s mostly a waste of time for me.
You wrote: “You know, those doctors of medicine who actually perform healing medicine… ”
I perform preventative medicine, not healing medicine. Like a dietician or a diabetician (of course diabeticians treat illness but the most important part of their job is preventative. Both preventative medicine and healing medicine are important. Preventing illness and injury is better than treating them. Any patient will tell you that he/she would prefer to have prevented the illness or injury.
Patricia, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA ROTFL
you are SUCH a BS artist. You should be in the big leagues with Michael Behe, David C. Reardon, and Joel Brind.
Posted by: SoMG at June 25, 2008 5:15 PM
Nice try again SoMG. Except those were not the scientists I referred Bethany to. You never bothered to respond to my other researchers because you KNEW they had the credentials!
BTW, you spend alot of time rolling on the floor. You should get that checked out.
SOMG, do you agree or disagree that an HCG blood test can be or is much more reliable than ultrasound for being able to tell whether tissue remains in the uterus or not?
Were you being untruthful or misleading when you claimed that a blood test could not tell you whether the uterus was empty or not? Be honest, SOMG.
I perform preventative medicine, not healing medicine. Like a dietician or a diabetician (of course diabeticians treat illness but the most important part of their job is preventative. Both preventative medicine and healing medicine are important. Preventing illness and injury is better than treating them. Any patient will tell you that he/she would prefer to have prevented the illness or injury.
Abortion is not “preventative” of anything, except a (continued) living child. It halts something which has already begun- a child’s life. It doesn’t prevent the life from being there in the first place. You get paid money to commit homicide- which you admit, even though you consider it justifiable. The point remains that your work is not about preventative medicine, it is about killing people.
Why do you keep insisting it’s preventative medicine, when you also admit it’s homicide? How can it possibly be both?
SoMG, you’re right about Barney.
http://www.pinetree.net/humor/barneyissatan.html
Doug, also from that site: Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson):
“The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us.”
Ha! Ha!
Love it, Janet!
;-)