Abortion mill replaces Christ with rubber chicken
Last April, I wrote about pro-abort shenanigans at the Northern Illinois Woman’s Center in Rockford, IL (here and here), where staff hung a lynched rubber chicken in the window, displayed dolls in coffins, dressed like satan, and threatened pro-lifers, all with no notice from MSM.
It appears the noosed chicken turned off many of the mill’s African-American clients, so staff recently hung it instead on a cross and also made other aesthetic changes. These came as a result, according to pro-lifer on the scene, Kevin, who also took the following pictures as recently as last Friday:
It seems these pictures were this abortion mill’s response to the success of the Rockford 40 Days for Life campaign. We know of 19 moms who chose life, and that upset the abortionist and clinic owner.
WARNING: Blasphemy and graphic language follow…
and the proaborts say our opposition is hate speech?
Yeah, right.
I think we need to call the media in on misrepresenting prolifers, prolife organizations, and on libelling us.
They make these claims but have nothing to back it up with.
Show us proof of the threats coming directly from prolife organizations or prolife persons representing a prolife group? Show us the words we’ve used in the public square that are hate? Show us one demonstration, just one where proaborts, abortionists were fearful for their lives and the army or riot police had to be called in?
what do you have? NOTHING. You have the witness of thousands upon thousands of people marching peacefully on Washington in January. People praying, singing and talking. You have the loving response of people praying outside clinics and offering real help to women in difficulty. And that makes YOU guys, HATE us.
Classy as ever, you pro-aborts.
Does this mean we can officially call Illinois the armpit of the world??
Excellent job exposing this bigotry and hatred.
This is what you could expect from people who are earning theri money with killing of inocent babies and clling it helping women.
From the Allied Defense Fund:
“LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL, AND TRANSGENDER PRIDE MONTH, 2009
BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION
Forty years ago, patrons and supporters of the Stonewall Inn in New York City resisted police harassment that had become all too common for members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community. Out of this resistance, the LGBT rights movement in America was born. During LGBT Pride Month, we commemorate the events of June 1969 and commit to achieving equal justice under law for LGBT Americans.
LGBT Americans have made, and continue to make, great and lasting contributions that continue to strengthen the fabric of American society. There are many well-respected LGBT leaders in all professional fields, including the arts and business communities. LGBT Americans also mobilized the Nation to respond to the domestic HIV/AIDS epidemic and have played a vital role in broadening this country’s response to the HIV pandemic.
Due in no small part to the determination and dedication of the LGBT rights movement, more LGBT Americans are living their lives openly today than ever before. I am proud to be the first President to appoint openly LGBT candidates to Senate-confirmed positions in the first 100 days of an Administration. These individuals embody the best qualities we seek in public servants, and across my Administration — in both the White House and the Federal agencies — openly LGBT employees are doing their jobs with distinction and professionalism.
The LGBT rights movement has achieved great progress, but there is more work to be done. LGBT youth should feel safe to learn without the fear of harassment, and LGBT families and seniors should be allowed to live their lives with dignity and respect.
My Administration has partnered with the LGBT community to advance a wide range of initiatives. At the international level, I have joined efforts at the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. Here at home, I continue to support measures to bring the full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans. These measures include enhancing hate crimes laws, supporting civil unions and Federal rights for LGBT couples, outlawing discrimination in the workplace, ensuring adoption rights, and ending the existing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security. We must also commit ourselves to fighting the HIV/AIDS epidemic by both reducing the number of HIV infections and providing care and support services to people living with HIV/AIDS across the United States.
These issues affect not only the LGBT community, but also our entire Nation. As long as the promise of equality for all remains unfulfilled, all Americans are affected. If we can work together to advance the principles upon which our Nation was founded, every American will benefit. During LGBT Pride Month, I call upon the LGBT community, the Congress, and the American people to work together to promote equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim June 2009 as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month. I call upon the people of the United States to turn back discrimination and prejudice everywhere it exists.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this first day of June, in the year of our Lord two thousand nine, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-third.
BARACK OBAMA”
M. Obama, you were the first President in history to cancel the National Day of Prayer.
You are turning this country into a cesspool.
Funny how people who are not “offended” by a murder in a church by a terrorist are “offended” by a rubber chicken and a couple silly signs.
Bystander, You don’t understand the blasphemy that is in the display at that abortion mill. Christians DO understand. Its mocking Christianity.
Bystander: “Funny how people who are not “offended” by a murder in a church by a terrorist are “offended” by a rubber chicken and a couple silly signs.”
Every pro-life group was offended. Stop smearing people and grow up.
Actually Bystander, I think you’ll find that the vast majority of pro-lifers have been horrificly offended and more by the killing of Dr. Tiller. Violence is NOT something that can be condoned by those who are pro-life. The fact that he was also killed in a place of worship just further compounds the disaster.
in fact, the only people show disrespect for George Tiller are in fact, the proaborts who are shamelessly using his death to advance their tyrannical attempt to silence free speech in America and further their goal of completely unrestricted, unregulated, abortion.
While every prolife group has come out against the killing, NOW and many proabort groups have shamelessly spewed forth hateful rhetoric.
Carol Marie I would describe the reactions by the majority of “pro lifers” on this and other sites to Tiller’s murder as ranging from smug satisfaction that “he had it coming” to exultation and delight.
ATTENTION PRO-CHOICERS: Pro-Life means ALL live, even the baby-killer-doctor’s life! Christians are forbidden to murder babies or adults.
File this under kooky people do kooky things. Stay classy Rockford, Il.
That rubber chicken has been like that forever. Months. Is this really the best your could do to try to divert attention away from Tiller’s assassination? Is that really the worst offense by pro-choicers that you could find?
abortion clinic employees work for the devil. thats old news.
These people are just too sick for words! They disgust me!!!!!!
I believe that Leah expressed her shame for PLfers last night. Take a look at this one and get back to us.
Scott, no way! The abortionists are guilty too!
Teach girls to stop spreading their legs? And teach boys to keep their zippers up. The problem is the abortionist’s willingness to exterminate the problem. So, girls and boys will keep on having irresponsible sex!
The problem, Scott, lies with many things. Peer Pressure, poor role models, and an oversexualized society *cough* for example, Bratz Dollz *cough*. Maybe if there wasn’t a 50% divorce rate, fathers/mothers stuck around and stayed true to the marriage vows of “to death do we part” and taught their children actual MORAL values, we wouldn’t have had 50 million abortions in 36 years.
Scott,
You’re barking up the wrong tree. This is a PRO-LIFE blog.
It will be interesting to see who else is charged with accessory to murder, in what is beginning to look like an Operation Rescue inside job. On “Tiller Watch” Operation Rescue publicized all aspects of Tiller’s (and his employees’) lives, including the name and address of his church, inviting an assassination there. Randall Terry and Bill O’Reilley all but demanded Tiller be killed. The killer had the phone number of Cheryl Sullenger, Operation Rescue official and convicted terrorist and clinic bomber on a sticky note in his car.
It may get interesting when the Grand Jury meets.
What’s worse, Tiller assassinated in a church or a rubber chicken hung on a cross?
The rubber chicken. Apparently numerous accidents were caused when people were driving by while ‘rubber necking’ to see what was in the window …
Snerd
Oy vey – all this drama.
Remember, people, it’s the thought that counts.
; )
Doug
O’Reily NEVER called for killing Tiller. He exposed his “business” of late term abortions and had a few of the victims on his show, but that’s it.
A butcher of women and children is dead.
Here you have it my friends: The intelligent, eloquent, articulate, educated and thoughtful face of the Pro-Abortion movement…….SCOTT.
Ya know Scott, even Obama would throw you under the bus, no, the train.
It will be interesting to see who else is charged with accessory to murder, in what is beginning to look like an Operation Rescue inside job. On “Tiller Watch” Operation Rescue publicized all aspects of Tiller’s (and his employees’) lives, including the name and address of his church, inviting an assassination there. Randall Terry and Bill O’Reilley all but demanded Tiller be killed. The killer had the phone number of Cheryl Sullenger, Operation Rescue official and convicted terrorist and clinic bomber on a sticky note in his car.
It may get interesting when the Grand Jury meets.
Posted by: Bystander at June 1, 2009 10:18 PM
***********************************
Could you please cite a source for that information? I looked and all I could find were blogs saying authorities found a post-it note with OR’s number on it, and that it was reported by a TV station (KMBC-TV), however, those portions of the text are now removed from all the news sites to which the blogs have linked.
By the way, Bystander, you’re sounding even more hysterical lately. Reading too much Feministing and Daily Kos?
These people are foaming at the mouth. They remind me of rabid dogs.
What’s worse, Tiller assassinated in a church or a rubber chicken hung on a cross?
The rubber chicken. Apparently numerous accidents were caused when people were driving by while ‘rubber necking’ to see what was in the window …
Snerd
Pay no attention to the doctor we just murdered – Look, over there, a rubber chicken in a storefront of a health clinic – thats the real issue. You do realize that your outrage over this seems to be more than your outrage over the doctor that your movement just killed IN A CHURCH!
He wasn’t a doctor Yolita. Doctors heal and save lives not mutilate and kill. He may have had a PhD, but he was nothing but a hired killer of late-term babies and his legacy is the killer of 60,000.
I am also interested in the source of this information.
Scott, I dont have the “balls” to tell you what I think but.. I DAMN SURE HAVE THE OVARIES TO DO SO.
I, am sorry Tiller is dead. I am sorry that he was murdered in a church. I am sorry for his family and all who witnessed a horrific act of violence.
Tiller performed illegal abortions(which made them murder) .. That is NO SECRET. Do your homework. He was a murderer, just like Scott Roeder. (it’s just that most of the time his victims were smaller)
I am not smug about his death…nor do I consider it “justifiable homicide.”
I RESENT you saying so, directly, if not by name.
At the risk of anyone here (pro life or pro choice) wanting to judge me… here are a few honest facts about one of the many people you have just insulted…
This so called “simple, single issue citizen”…
Has a close relative in CA who actually owns a medical marijuana dispensary… GASP!!
According to your insulting generalizations, I would want this person “offed”
My very best friend from childhood was a gay guy… he died of full blown AIDS too. Guess what simple minded zealout was at his bedside during his final hours when his parents refused to be???
Yup… this sorry Christian chick.
Check me out… I am the OPPOSITE of everything you DESPERATLEY want me/us to be..and I just happen to be pro life too…
Got news for ya buddy… I DIDNT KILL TILLER either.. DUHHHHHHHH.
Oh and I am praying for you to WISE UP.
Peace,
a
What’s worse, Tiller assassinated in a church or a rubber chicken hung on a cross?
Snerd, Jesus would have thrown Tiller out of any church quicker than he disposed of the money changers.
Just curious… what would the “choice crowd” think if CPCs they passed on their daily commutes had coffins with dead abortionists displayed in the windows of their offices? (Hey,let’s add a couple of toy machine guns in for good measure).. yeah.. that would be the equivalent of what we see in the pictures above..
If I dared to guess… they would label us all as right wing domestic terrorists, who promote violence. (Oh, they’ve already doen that havent they?)
Feministing.com would have a field day with it.
oops, anonymous was me… my apologies
a
YLT, it appears that some of us are more outraged than others regarding the murder of Dr. Tiller. Would you be outraged if, perhaps, a well-known pro-lifer were gunned down in a church? How about a pastor (which recently happened)? Would you speak out about it? Pray for his or her family? Shed a single tear? Many of us did shed tears for Dr. Tiller, in prayer over the years and when we heard of his death. But I don’t expect you to even believe or understand that. You are wholly lacking in compassion, so don’t come here and lecture us.
There are several posts already regarding Dr. Tiller’s death. But I suppose Jill is only supposed to write about his death from here on out?
And nice try, but it wasn’t “our movement” that killed Dr. Tiller in a church. “We” didn’t kill him. It was a man with a history of mental instability who was a proven member of a militant, anti-government-type organization (Freemen). THAT has been proven. Whether or not he was a “member” of any pro-life group remains to be seen. (However, as I stated before, posting on a message board doesn’t make you a “member” of any site or group. It simply makes you someone who has posted on a message board. Or do you consider yourself to be a “member” of JillStanek.com?)
Clearly, Roeder’s actions were not pro-life. Many of us here have condemned his actions, as has every other pro-life organization. I realize that will never be enough for you, though, YLT.
I realize that until all “rhetoric” with which you disagree is silenced, you will continue to come here, adding nothing to the discussions.
The “rhetoric” of the left has long been against persons who make their conservative or pro-life views public. Radio personalities, TV hosts, politicians, past Presidents, you name it. But all of that calling for the deaths of Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter…that was just funny business, right? Our President laughing at a “joke” that says “I hope [Rush’s] kidneys’ fail,” is just a little humor…no rhetoric involved, right? A little harmless humor. I get it… it’s all just fun and games, and if someone happens to get themselves killed on the conservative side, well, it’s just because they “had it coming” for making their views so public.
The rhetoric can go both ways. What is happening right now is that you are choosing to see what you want to see. You are choosing to hate true pro-lifers because of what one man has done. You continue to come to this blog to spread your hate and cynicism, and I’m not really sure why. You often dodge the abortion issue completely, you set up straw men regarding our beliefs so you can shoot them down, you say that we don’t really do anything to help others who are in need… when the truth is, we are not your enemy. You are your own enemy, YLT. I’m not sure what you’re fighting against, but it’s not us.
Also, YLT, pay no attention to the millions of children who have been murdered and continue to be murdered every year–3,700 a day.
Look, over there, a doctor has been murdered in a church, 8 of them in the past 32 years! – that’s the real issue. You do realize that your outrage over this seems to be more than your outrage over the millions of women and children that your movement has killed in three decades!
(See? Rhetoric can go both ways…)
Angele:
No, you have balls.
You go girl.
I will join the rest of the pro-lifers in absolutely condemning the murder of Dr. Tiller.
When I have protested at abortion clinics, often times it has been the pro-choicers who have been violent towards me. I have had coins thrown at me from passing vehicles traveling about 40-50mph! I have had people yell at me “you should die!” What? Just because I am expressing my own opinion publically?
Violence is NEVER the answer. I do hope that whoever is indeed responsible for killing Dr. Tiller will be brought to justice and given a life sentence behind bars. I also hope that Dr. Tiller was able to repent for his sins of killing multiple babies and harming countless women.
YLT, stop demonizing pro-lifers.
re by: Kel at June 2, 2009 12:06 AM
Your use of proportional justification for the action of pro-life terrorists shows your sympathy for the act. There is no reason to kill dr. tiller – can you agree to that? It was not necessary, or warranted. You justify the killing of a man as atonement for the “death” of fetuses. Keep talking. You’re dragging your movement into the sewer.
Your people murdered someone in a church and you continue with your equivocations. You targeted him for years, he was shot twice before. You yourself are not directly responsable, but your throught-process is eerilie similar. You have crap for compassion. Disagree with someone but don’t kill someone.
re: segamon at June 2, 2009 1:10 AM
You presume the hellbound status of Tiller – what of pro-lifers who have killed Tiller, what of those who have done less fatal, but no less brutal acts of intimidation and racketeering in word or in deed. You weep crocodile tears. I have a clear conscience about everything I have said, I suspect your posts and the similar posts by others are an attempt to clear consciences that will not be soon washed clean of their ultimate sympathy with the murder of Dr. Tiller in a church.
Pro-life atheists need to make a bigger showing. These guys would have zero ammunition.
The vignette in that window of the clinic is so ridiculous and evil that even if I were an abortion bound woman, that’s the last place I would consider going for a “procedure”.
ANYONE who would set foot in that place needs their head examined. God only knows what sort of depraved maniacal “surgeons” are working there.
Stats say 90% of preemies survive 7 months or longer after being inside the woman. Similar aged or even older preemies(call em fetuses)are routinely destroyed like with the partial birth abortion. Why are we hooking some preemies(fetuses)to life support respirators etc and yet destroying similar aged ones?????
Kel, great point to YLT. Hey YLT, did you feel outraged when Wanda Sykes wished death upon Rush Limbaugh, or did you laugh along? Get serious?
It looks like Carhart is going to take George Tiller’s place to keep his clinic up and running. Just read it.
Angele,
I love you!! You go girl!!
Kel,
Bravo to your post to YLT!!
Amen!
YLT,
Your hatred and anger is going to eat you up inside.
It is discoloring everything you are reading here and you simply cannot comprehend what we are saying.
WE had nothing to do with the brutal murder of George Tiller. WE are sickened that he was murdered in cold blood in his church.
Keep spewing. You will go the way of those that have gone before you and gotten banned and you know it.
Carla, I second your post!!!;]
In one positive note, Ford has announced that it will not advertise on shows on which the far right hatemongers like Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, Boo Hoo Beck and Coulter spew their insane hatred. Gotta go out and kiss my F 150.
I love Beck and Coulter. The beauty of a free country is that we can like who we like! Don’t like it? Flip the channel.
Where is Carla? I’ve got something to share.
“Pro-life atheists need to make a bigger showing. These guys would have zero ammunition.”
??
If they’re asserting bigoted ad hominems against people posing sound secular arguments, what they are employing is not “ammunition,” but stupidity.
Never worry about bigots and haters. The worst they can do is crucify you (history’s biggest non sequitur).
If you read the comments around the blogosphere and news outlets the last couple days, you see this endlessly — sheer bigoted hate against Christians. What’s fascinating to me is that a deranged loner acting waaay outside of Christ’s teaching is all it takes to get these yahoos braying about how evil Christ’s followers are. Aside from the idiocy of THAT, I note that they don’t even comment as if the issue is abortion, but instead is those evil Christians.
It’s a strange world of utter illogic we inhabit.
Share, Heather!! Heading out for a field trip but I will try to catch it!!
re by: Kel at June 2, 2009 12:06 AM
Your use of proportional justification for the action of pro-life terrorists shows your sympathy for the act. There is no reason to kill dr. tiller – can you agree to that? It was not necessary, or warranted. You justify the killing of a man as atonement for the “death” of fetuses. Keep talking. You’re dragging your movement into the sewer.
Your people murdered someone in a church and you continue with your equivocations. You targeted him for years, he was shot twice before. You yourself are not directly responsable, but your throught-process is eerilie similar. You have crap for compassion. Disagree with someone but don’t kill someone.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 2, 2009 1:16 AM
*************************
Yeah, nice job totally missing the point of my post YLT. Typical. (Those were your words I turned back around on you, *hint hint*. It’s easy to spout rhetoric, isn’t it?) Did you happen to see THIS post, which I also posted last night under the Sunday funny post?——–
You said: “I dont get to define anything – I’m just making the point that you guys had better clean up your act, and right your ship because people are looking at you now as crazy and based on the statements from some folks here, I more than understand why. The minimization, and justification, and talk of proportions of abortions to doctors killed (as another form of justification), these all make the anti-choice movement look irresponsable at best and dangerous at worst. Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 2, 2009 12:01 AM”*********
I responded:
The act is clean and the ship is fine, thanks. This one man’s actions are his own.
And you’ve been calling us crazy since you started posting here, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t care how pro-lifers are perceived! This is a sick joke, right?
Nobody is minimizing anything here, YLT. But the media is acting as if this is a common occurrence, when it’s not. YOU are acting as if it’s a common occurrence.
There IS no justification for what this man has done, in my opinion. He walked into a church and gunned down a defenseless man. That cannot be justified. However, you continue to ignore the fact of what Dr. Tiller did for a living. You are minimizing the lives taken at his mill every day. We view those human lives as ones of value. Tiller’s life also had value. Let’s be honest, you’d use whatever you could to rail against the “anti-choice” movement. You’ve been doing it for a very long time, well before this heinous incident took place. Please don’t pretend that you “care” about us and the movement’s “well being.”
—————————–
Do you actually READ what we write here, YLT? I don’t think you do. Your vision’s a little clouded by hatred.
Thanks, His Man!!!! (grinning)
I love you too, Carla.
Wishing everyone here a splendid day!!!
Love,
A
Carhart was the one on staff the day Christin Gilbert died. If women KNEW this (That this young woman DIED), they would be more likely choose life for their babies and not trust that man to even treat them for a cavity (if he was a dentist).
I wonder if this means Lincoln’s abortionist will probably do abortions in Bellevue because I doubt Carhart will give up his death mill there.
We need to pray for the conversion of these men, that they learn the truth and come to it, like Bernard Nathanson did.
Looking at these pictures is like watching the Exorcist…a Demon will use all means of mocking, sacrilege, and degradation in order to fight off the attack by the Forces of God.
Keep going, y’all outside this abortion mill…you must be doing some effective good for them to react this way.
Keep an eye out for their heads to turn around and vomit to explode forth from their mouths.
“Funny how people who are not “offended” by a murder in a church by a terrorist are “offended” by a rubber chicken and a couple silly signs.
Posted by: Bystander at June 1, 2009 7:26 PM”
============================================
Put a turban on the chicken and place a sign that says ‘Mohammed’ on it and see how “silly” the reaction will be…
and oh…unless you live under a rock somewhere, the entire pro-life community condemns the killing of Tiller.
Bystander and YLT
I’ve issued a challenge to you and others on this blog.
Since Roeder belonged to a militia that promotes violence and disregard for US laws, shouldn’t they be held responsible for his behavior?
Do you intend sometime soon to either visit the “freemen” blog, if they have one, or some other militia blog and express your outrage over the recruitment of such dangerous individuals as Roeder and the reinforcement of their defiance of the law?
Unless of course you can name a PL group Roeder was a member of or a legitimate PL spokesperson or leader who has supported Roeder.
This is what caused Roeder to kill Tiller!
Of course in your outrage you will completely disregard any danger this might put you in. These aren’t exactly the nicest group of people and they have been known to be violent and most certainly don’t have any regard for the law.
I wouldn’t want them to have my IP or e-mail address.
Be sure to tell me what they said.
“In one positive note, Ford has announced that it will not advertise on shows on which the far right hatemongers like Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, Boo Hoo Beck and Coulter spew their insane hatred. Gotta go out and kiss my F 150.
Posted by: Bystander at June 2, 2009 7:33 AM”
———————————–
For those of us who know cars and trucks, we wouldn’t own a Ford anyway. I wouldn’t have a Ford if they gave me one. Their products are absolute crap,
Kiss your F 150? Does Obama know that you drive a Ford? If he knew that he’d trhoww you under the proverbial Ford Maverick…..if you could get it started or perhaps he have you blown up in a Pinto.
Why, according to Obama if you own a pick-up truck you are an environmental terrorist. I’m going to report you to Janet Napolitano for your disloyalty to the Communist Party.
If you’re a tree hugging Liberal, you need to view unborn children as insentient blobs of tissue, think that partial birth abortion is a good thing, eat tofu, drive a Prius, agree to a 98% tax rate, not attend a Bible-based church, approve of homosexual marriage, gays in the military, a debt based economy, that the US is an evil country, that 9/11 type terrorists are nice people, that pro-lifers are the real terrorists, hate Israel, and now, own a Ford product, etc.,etc.,etc.
Yep, the Ford Maverick, Escort, EXP, Tempo, Granada and the exploding Pinto’s and Crown Victroria’s, all great cars, made by Liberals for Liberals….they deserve ’em. No wonder Detroit is a hell hole.
His Man,
You are on fire buddy!!! I LOVE IT!!! : )
Goooooo HisMan!
I love it!! They won’t advertise on Rush, Sean, or Bill! I never knew they did! Gee, Ford really knows how to hurt a guy!
You’re right HisMan, Obama might will throw Bystander under the proverbial Ford Maverick like he threw his pastor under the bus! He does that with those who are not politically expedient.
Ford’s only shooting themselves in the foot since all these men have huge audiences.
Are they advertising on Odorman and Madcow?
Now that’s funny.
No wonder Detroit is a hellhole.
I have an idea. I don’t know if we should do it here, on FB, or where exactly but… what if?
What if, we had a “getting to know each other day”… Where we can share 10-25 facts about ourselves that others may not know.
The purpose of this would be… to show one another that we are all human, fallible, fun, loved, and loving.
We are not just stereotypes sitting on on either side of an issue.
We have an annual event here in my home town. Several restaurants have a buy one, get one free lunch when you bring someone from another, race or culture to lunch and bring the invitation issued online or in the local free weekly.
It’s a cool way to find common ground.
There would have to be rules of some sort..nothing can be used to antagonize each other.. you know.. all of it must be friendly and light hearted.
The theme could be, “what do we have in common”…or “would you go to lunch with me”?
The objective is to find at least one person from the other side of the abortion debate whos company you might enjoy…sounds kind of “liberal” of me doesnt it? LOL.
I dunno, it’s just a silly thought.
Peace,
a
Then again, maybe I am a total goober for suggesting it..lol.. ahhh, back to work.
Later,
a
Fords are made by liberals for liberals? I thought liberals were stereotyped as driving German or Japanese cars.
My sister had a Ford truck for years — she used it to pull a horse trailer. Loved it. But when she got an office job she sold it and bought a hybrid instead.
My car is German. I bought it certified pre-owned and it’s an unreliable piece of crap — victim of the Phantom VW Electrical Problems that plagued the company around 1998-2001ish. It’s happiest when the “check engine” light is on; no matter how many times I have it fixed, the light always returns on the drive home. I love it, though. Because I have no other choice, lol. Also because it’s a convertible and I will cling to that until it turns to rusted dust beneath my feet.
I drive a Honda Accord, Subaru Outback, and Chevrolet Corvette.
I do have a ’97 Ford Explorer, you know the type that flipped over and killed people. I have to admit it wasn’t a bad vehicle but I’ve had to spend a ton keeping it going. Fords are simply not engineered very well.
Subaru’s are the best cars in the world from an engineering standpoint, asymmetrical 4 wheel drive, 5 star crash ratings, very strong engines and transmission, great suspensions, however, a lot of Libs drive ’em. If I had small children I would only transport them in a Subaru or a Suburban. I guess we can agree on a few things.
VW’s are worse than Fords if you can believe that. So much for German engineering.
Please listen to these chilling words by Dr. Tiller:
It’s so matter of fact, so cold.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/audios/george-tiller-1.mp3
Hey His Man, did you catch the part where the women ask “Will the Digoxin injection cause my BABY to feel pain”? Tiller’s answer is “no.”
I wonder why Tiller didn’t correct the women and tell them “It’s not a baby.”
Oh my Jesus, there are no words to describe what I have just heard…
For the sake of his sorrowful passion have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Share, Heather!! Heading out for a field trip but I will try to catch it!!
Posted by: Carla at June 2, 2009 8:36 AM—————————————————————— Carla, I’ll e-mail you. It’s off topic. Something about Stevie Nicks!;] Mary, I haven’t forgotten you either! I’m off to the shower now. Just been so busy!!!
re: Mary at June 2, 2009 10:08 AM
your point is moot
Thanks to the change in the racketeering laws proposed by anti-choice groups and approved by President George W. Bush, the militia groups\prolife groups (really one and the same in militant ideology) cannot be prosecuted for their intimidation tactics! Cause republicans love their anti-choice terrorists!
Oh my Jesus, there are no words to describe what I have just heard…
For the sake of his sorrowful passion have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at June 2, 2009 11:40 AM
*****************
Agreed, Bobby. Halfway through, I had to stop the audio and just breathe, I was so grieved by what I heard.
Posted by: heather at June 2, 2009 5:51 AM
Wanda Sykes is someone whose comedy I find off-putting and I think wishing people death is without exception wrong. I didn’t like her comedy before and I think she lost a lot of respect with that routine.
YLT, thank you for that!
Studley:
The depths of self-deception to which a human being can sink are why hell is called an abyss.
Yes, Lord, please have mercy on us, come quickly and relieve us from the pain of having to deal with the murder of innocent children in the womb, from the reality of the abortion holocaust and from posters like YLT.
Lord, have mercy on YLT for he is without you, lost, and on his way to hell. Pleaser rescue him before it is too late.
Help him to see why abortion is an affront to your creative power. Help him to see how the world has fallen from your perfect plan, that death was never intended for the human race.
Help him to wake up Lord that calling us pro-lifers terrorists who stand for you is actaully a slap in your face becasue You O Lord are the ultimate pro-lifer. You love life and hate death, you create life, you are the Author of Life.
Lord, when we are taken from this earth in the blink of an eye and there are no more Christians left to restrain evil, help people like YLT think back as to what we really were trying to do and remind him to call out for you in mercy at the horror that will then grip the whole earth. Perhpas Lord, if it is your will, you will grant him repentance and mercy and true life.
You guys settled on a new target yet?
Amen.
His Man, Amen to that. YLT, would you care to explain why you are PC? Have you had an abortion? Have you payed for your girlfriend or wife to have an abortion? Give me one good reason. You have never shared your story.
I haven’t listened to the audio, I’m not sure if I’ll be able to but at least I’ll have to wait until the kids are in bed tonight (I need to preview it before I decide which, if any, are ready to hear it. Probably just Alison, maybe Joseph).
Truthseeker… I’m not so sure. Jesus MIGHT have thrown him out for being a hypocrite and Pharisee-type… but he might have had several other reactions… all including confrontation of him, but as a sinner (aren’t we all?)… Jesus may have converted the man and comforted him after he realized the gravity of the sin. Unlike us, he would have been able to see inside the man’s soul to see if there was any hope of conversion or if he was hopelessly hardened. We cannot know that.
“Jesus may have converted the man and comforted him after he realized the gravity of the sin. Unlike us, he would have been able to see inside the man’s soul to see if there was any hope of conversion or if he was hopelessly hardened. We cannot know that.”
Yes, yes, yes, amen, amen, amen. We have NO idea the state of his soul at the moment of death, nor do we have any idea how much grace God is able to bestow upon a person in an instant, the instant before death. All it takes is the smallest little crack, and God will smash the door open.
Elisabeth, it seems pretty obvious to me that Jesus, who was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit would judge a hired killer of babies to Gehanna where they would spend eternity wailing and gnashing their teeth. IMO Jesus would not subject the babies in heaven to the presence of the likes of Tiller. But you are correct that I am just a sinner and it is not place to be the judge, only Jesus’.
Hi there Bobby, TS, and Elisabeth!
Yo yo yo!
Bobby, hope that baby is bein a good lil girl!!
Bobby, I hope you’ve got the Maxwell House perking!
Your people murdered someone in a church
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 2, 2009 1:16 AM
I think wishing people death is without exception wrong.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 2, 2009 11:54 AM
Hi YLT. I appreciate the latter but not the former statement. Wishing for/plotting/committing a murder is wrong. Period. Murder seems especially tragic when it happens in a church. Unfortunately Dr T wasn’t the only person murdered in a church this year. He was the 9th. Where’s the outrage (I mean in general not you specifically) for the other 8?
I strongly disagree with your statement that “your people” murdered Dr T because you make a fringe fruitcake representative of the whole prolife movement. If I can give prochoicers the benefit of the doubt and view those PCers who are making online death threats as fringe loonies not representative of prochoicers in general, can you not give prolifers the same courtesy?
Peace :)
“women have more value than the……baby”
“the fetus is the problem and the women is the patient” Aren’t they both patients?
“to initiate fetal demise” You mean murder the baby, tight?
“no fetal pain” how did the doctor know?
“no live birth” Sounds like a guarantee. BAIPA anyone?
“fetus has expired” You mean the baby has been murdered, right?
“natural miscarriage” What’s natural about inducing an abortion?
“emotional, spiritual and cultural variety” That’s just too evil for me to comment about.
“we make available lots of services” We have lots of ways to take your money.
“wrap the baby in a receiving blanket” Well, is is a baby or a fetus and what exactly is being received, isn’t it dead?
“a baptismal certificate” What, no birth certificate?
“certificate of premature miscarriage” See above.
“fetal footprints” This is a really tough one.
“we can order an autopsy” Why doc, couldn’t you tell me exactly what was wrong with the baby and why he had to be terminated. Aren’t you sure?
“we always do fetal x-rays as part of our program” So we can defend ourselves if you decide to sue us.
“identification and separation encounter” Again, so we can prove we killed your baby and pretend that it was an act of mercy.
“about 2 to 3 hours after you deliver” Excuse me doctor, why did you call this a delivery?
“bring the baby to you at the bedside” Again, is is a baby or a fetus?
“we will describe to you what’s right with your baby, we will identify what’s wrong with your baby” Well, it’s dead and we made money.
“you can take pictures” This is really, really tough and macabre.
“may be brief” We charge by the minute FYI.
“we understand that beyond a shadow of a doubt that the difficult part of this process is not the premature delivery of the stillborn” Well, duhhhh.
“by giving the baby to us” God have mercy.
“by saying goodbye on a long term basis” Yes, death is pretty final.
Listening to this audio, you have to really feel utter sorrow for this man. It is evident that he had to go to great lengths to convince and deceive himself that what he did for a living was a good thing. Why, we really don’t know for sure.
We can look at the evidence though which points to the ulterior motives for great financial gain and simple greed.
Many men and women throughout history have shipwrecked their lives for filthy lucre, so, this is not a new story, a tragic story.
The Bible says, “a good man leaves a legacy to his children’s children”. Think about that.
60,000 lives terminated. That’s one every day for 164 years, non-stop. I am utterly horrified.
Hey Heather. I’m going out to lunch now. I’ll catch up with you later. ts
Notice how it’s a fetus while desribing the termination process but it’s a baby after the “delivery”.
HisMan, when he talked about there being no fetal pain after injecting digoxin, I sat here wondering how one feels during cardiac arrest. Pain-free??
I, too, was sickened by his use of the term “delivery.”
The whole thing was just beyond disturbing. :(
truthseeker & bobby: I agree with both of you.
George tiller does not know the value of motherhood.
“….the fetus is the problem…” in the case of fetal deformity.
“the first reason so there’s no fetal pain….”
“so the baby will expire painlessly”
“no live birth” (I wonder, if a child had been born alive at lets say, 32 weeks, would he have suffocated the child?)
I don’t understand the “go to the hotel and not the emergency room” on the forms, thing…….if you have an emergency, you should go to the hospital.
“baby cleaned up after delivery”
“take pictures you can show…..”
“premature miscarriage”
This man was one demented felllow.
And they call us (pro-LIFE) crazy??
Fed Up,
“I strongly disagree with your statement that “your people” murdered Dr T because you make a fringe fruitcake representative of the whole prolife movement.”
I would go a step further and say a murderer is not “on the fringe”. He’s on the OUTSIDE looking IN. He has no right call himself or be called a PL’r.
I strongly disagree with your statement that “your people” murdered Dr T because you make a fringe fruitcake representative of the whole prolife movement.
Posted by: Fed Up at June 2, 2009 12:42 PM
My sympathy lies with Scott and his family as he sacrificed his life and his freddom for those of innocent women and children. You can disagree with Scott Roeder’s actions but killing the most notorious baby killer/mutilater of women in the US does not make one a fringe fruitcake in my book. Again, I am not condoning the killing as a “pro-life” action; I am just sick of posting demeaning comments about Scott. HE is going through a hard time too and he needs the prayers of the pro-life community. The number of victims would still be rising today in Tiller’s Witchita House of Horrors if Scott hadn’t stopped the butcher of women and children. I would personally not kill an abortionist unless they killed my offspring, but I will not disown Scott because I feel as though he was driven to rage by the evil he witnessed Tiller commit on a daily basis. I am not saying you have to agree with what he did or condone it. But at least offer him the same prayers and forgiveness that you espouse for Tiller.
Bystander mentioned that Dr. Tiller’s killer must have been tied to pro-life groups because after all, pro-life groups talked about Tiller and did not like the fact that he performed late term abortions.
But remember when the FBI searched Unabomber Ted Kaczinski’s shack, after his brother turned him in? They found only a handful of personal items and just a single, well-read book: Earth in the Balance, by Al Gore.
Does that mean Al Gore’s political party, the Democrats, and his global warming hoax should be discredited on that basis alone?
Of course not. Al Gore is refuted by science, logic and common sense, not by the fact that the Unibomber read his book. Any one of us can read the peer-reviewed scientific research paper describing how global warming is not caused by human activity, that is signed by over 31,000 scientists, at http://www.oism.org/pproject/
And the Democrats are refuted by history — their big government, socialist schemes have hurt millions around the world every time they are tried, and they won’t work here. But we don’t need to tie the Democrats failed policies to Ted Kaczinski to prove they are worthless.
Bystander and the liberal drive-by media should not jump to the conclusion that peaceful, loving pro-life people somehow drove a madman to kill a doctor in Kansas.
GodsImage, 1:14 PM,
“Bystander and the liberal drive-by media should not jump to the conclusion that peaceful, loving pro-life people somehow drove a madman to kill a doctor in Kansas.”
Amen.
YLT 11:47am
Come on, does that stop you from visiting their websites and letting them know you hold them accountable for Tiller’s murder??
Come on man, show us what you’re made of.
PCIowa 12:06PM
You will have to consult the militia websites on that matter. Its their member that shot Tiller.
I’ve been thinking about these accusations of pro-lifers being responsible for Tiller’s murder. However, this is illogical. So, pro-lifers don’t be intimidated by the lies.
Let’s say that pro-lifers were totally silenced and forced into submission by the pro-aborts as people like YLT, Bystander and Reality want. Do pro-aborts really believe that these types of hate killings would stop? Get a clue. Cain killed Abel for no valid reason although he did try to justify it. Murder is a part of the human condition and is a result of the Fall.
If abortion was illegal however, Tiller would not have been an abortion doctor, would not have been well known, etc. The nut case that murdered Tiller would have killed someone else for some other reason and we’d have 50,000,000 more mostly productive citizens in this country. I think this guy Schoeder was just determined to kill someone, anyone for any reason because he is obsessed with murder. Something that happened to him opened him up to the demonic realm.
And if Liberals were really, really concerned about how violence and murder can influence others to commit murder why do they worship Hollywood, the very source and influencer of the most vile type of evil acts being committed today? Has anyone gone to see some of the movies out lately? Recently, my wife and I went to a movie and had to walk out it was so disturbing. The very people that are the most vocal about abortion are in fact the most vile peddlers of murder on earth via the silver screen and for what, money, filthy dirty money. You Liberals are liars and gross hypocrites for not admitting this.
In fact, all you Liberals should hang your head in shame for the gross and vile stuff that is happening in our country today because of your evil evangelism and promotion of the gospel of murder, violence, pre-marital sex, pornography, homosexuality, adultery and the glorification of all of it.
How many times have Liberal Hollywood types been blamed for influencing murder or other violence only to have their lawyers produce expert witness that publish these hogwash papers on studies that say just the opposite? And you Liberals have the unmitigated gall to blame pro-lifers for the murder of Tiller because they simply speak out against abortion calling it what it is? Do you know what a kettle and a frying pan are?
Why aren’t you pro-aborts protesting Hollywood movies that glorify evil every time a bank is robbed, or a child is kidnapped, or a church or synagogue is burned, or a there’s a violent car accident on the freeway caused by a police chase, or a family murdered by a drunk driver, ad infinitum? Why? Tell me why now.
I mean you protest the use of fir and the mistreatment of animals and hunting of whales and care more about caterpillars and dart fish than you do about people. The truth is your selfish attitudes demonstrate an absolute hatred for people.
So really, legal abortion and pro-choicers are the reason for Tiller’s murder, not pro-lifers. You see murder begets murder and life begets life. We reap what we sow. Sow murder, you get murder. Sow death, you get death. Sow life, you get life.
It doesn’t surprise me that pro-aborts point the finger at pro-lifers when pro-aborts are guilty of the most heinous type of murder a person can commit; the shedding of blood of the innocent.
In fact, when we shed innocent blood, God lifts his hand of protection from us and we open ourselves up to the actions of the demonic who demand innocent blood. That’s why witchcraft and other pagan religions use blood in their services.
So as pro-lifers, we know the solution to the abortion problem is not more murder and taking vengeance out on those that do abortions but in praying, fasting, exhorting and admonishing the world to stop the killing of children. It’s only when the killing is stopped is when the killing will stop.
We will be persecuted, blamed, hated and ostracized for simply promoting life, however, so was the God-Man we follow and have surrendered our very souls to. The Man-God who stood in front of Pontius Pilate who asked, “What is truth” when the truth was standing right in front of him. And then…was crucified without uttering a peep. He is our model, not these Schoeder nut cases.
Pro-aborts and the world are still asking this question: “What is truth”? We have the answer and Satan is going to try everything to keep us from answering. We will not be intimidated, we will not be silenced, for if we failed to speak, the very stones would cry out and say, “Jesus is Lord.”
Pro-aborts, we’ve been trying to warn you over and over again to stop the murder. We beg you to turn from your ways so that you will not suffer pain. If the murder of children doesn’t stop, the murders will not stop. Not because we want these murders but because it’s a spiritual law that the shedding of innocent blood begets the shedding of blood. It is us in fact, who do not want any of you or any of your children to die or be hurt. We, by proclaiming the truth, are trying to protect you from yourselves. Why can’t you see that?
And you want to silence and kill the very people that are trying, by proclaiming the truth to you, not for money, not for gain, but simply out of love for you?
Don’t give up pro-lifers. Pro-aborts are not the enemy, the wicked spiritual forces that they follow and are influenced by are.
While not as elaborately detailed and marketed as Tiller’s little sales pitch/FAQ session… Pendergraft’s clinic does something similar.
They tell you the child will not feel a thing and will be “asleep” (I guess as in “put under”??) before administering digoxin.
They do not cover the born alive issue.
To my knowledge, they do not offer baptisms, etc. Oh but…they did say there was a private room in which to hold and grieve your stillborn child. (They just don’t mention that it also happens to be the bathroom floor and that they will lock you in for the sake of the afforementioned “privacy”)
Oh Angele,
Next time I see you(where?? when??)be prepared for the biggest HUG ever from me!!! Your story has touched me more than I could ever tell you. Fight on, sistah!!
TS:
I have to disagree with you.
Murder is the ultimate act of human judgment on a person.
Only the State has the God-given mandate to kill via declaration of war, executing those convicted of the murder of another and, by bestowing the right of self-defense of it’s citizens against those that would harm them and to be totally clear, should not include legal abortion which contradicts all of the above.
And please, pro-aborts do not tell me that abortion is an act of self-defense because in reality, you do not know that the baby inside of you is going to harm you as let’s say a home invade would.
GodsImage:
Very excellent comment!
Pro-aborts, we’ve been trying to warn you over and over again to stop the murder. We beg you to turn from your ways so that you will not suffer pain. If the murder of children doesn’t stop, the murders will not stop. Not because we want these murders but because it’s a spiritual law that the shedding of innocent blood begets the shedding of blood. It is us in fact, who do not want any of you or any of your children to die or be hurt. We, by proclaiming the truth, are trying to protect you from yourselves. Why can’t you see that?
Posted by: HisMan at June 2, 2009 2:13 PM
-If that is not only an indirect nod of understanding re: the murder of Dr T along with the threat of continued intimidation and violence (‘stop doing what you’re doing for your own sake, or we’ll keep doing what we have to to stop you’), then I honestly don’t know what is.
Janet @1:06PM. Agreed. Thanks for saying it better than I did.
TS @1:08PM. I can’t disown Roeder because I don’t claim him in the first place. I have been praying for him and his family, just as I have been praying for Tiller’s soul and his family. This has to be awful for both families.
Danille,
You are in for world of HisMan’s pro-life actions “fasting and praying”; but what violence are you referring to? HisMan said that those who kill are bringing death upon themselves; it is not HisMan you need to fear, it is your insistence on your right to kill that is the mindset of killers everywhere and HisMan is trying to open your eyes to it.
Dear sweet Carla,
I love you, very much.. I hope that big hug comes pretty soon. I would adore spending time with you again. I learn a lot from you…and I respect you greatly.
xoxoxox,
a
MisHan: “… If the murder of children doesn’t stop, the murders will not stop. Not because we want these murders but because it’s a spiritual law that the shedding of innocent blood begets the shedding of blood. “
SG: I’m curious if you noticed that for those who see Roeder guilty of murder (and therefore Tiller the innocent victim – remember it was you who argued for black and white thinking), that using your “spiritual law”, it means more blood, possibly that of fetuses, will be spilled?
Snerd
Danielle:
Thanks for slandering and libeling me. I did not say this as you put in this disgusting quote insinuating that I said it (‘stop doing what you’re doing for your own sake, or we’ll keep doing what we have to to stop you’). YOU ARE A LIAR AND DISTORTER OF THE TRUTH. IF WHAT YOU SAY EVER RESULTS IN ANY HARM TO ME OR MY FAMILY YOU CAN BET I WILL USE YOUR WORDS IN A COURT OF LAW.
Did you not read this however: “Not because we want these murders but because it’s a spiritual law that the shedding of innocent blood begets the shedding of blood.”
So try again. You may be able to distort words so that you can justify abortion but don’t you dare twist my words.
As gravity is a law of physics, the spiritual law of the shedding of innocent blood results in the shedding of blood.
If we pro-lifers stopped saying everything, the murder would continue because there is a God in Heaven who runs a just universe. In fact, as I stated, that is exactly why we exhort you to stop the murder OF INNOCENT CHILDREN. We do not want you to be hurt nor will we hurt you even if you continue aborting babies. We know that God is in control. If you throw a stone up in the air enough times, eventually it will hit you on its way down.
It’s like I’m saying, please don’t drive drunk because eventually you will be killed or kill someone. It’s like me saying stop speeding, or get lots of rest, or eat right or please exercise or please lose some excess weight before you have a heart attack. I’m not saying stop murdering or we will murder you. Geeeesh!
If you can’t understand that, please go take a comprehensive reading class and learn how to read everything I said in context.
SO LET ME SAY THIS IN VERY, VERY CLEAR AND PLAIN LANGUAGE THAT EVEN YOU CAN UNDERSTAND: I DO NOT ADVOCATE THE MURDER OF ANYONE BECAUSE THEY ARE PRO-ABORTION OR PRO-CHOICE. MY PRAYER IS INSTEAD THAT THEY CHANGE THEIR MINDS SO AS TO NOT SUFFER ANY PAIN WHATSOEVER AS A RESULT OF THEIR MINDSET AND ACTIONS. THAT IS WHY I AM PRO-LIFE. IN FACT, IF ONE MURDERS ANYONE, BE IT A PRO-LIFER OR A PRO-CHOICER OR A BELIEVER OR AN ATHEIST OR ANYONE, THEY ARE SUBJECT TO THE JUDGMENT OF GOD AND THEY WILL IN FACT, APART FROM CONFESSION AND REPENTANCE, BE SUBJECT TO THEIR OWN LIVES BEING TAKEN. MURDER BEGETS MURDER.
GOD IS NOT MOCKED.
So, if you want me to stop warning people in love and out of love AND FOR THEIR PROTECTION, forget it.
I WILL SAY THIS TOO. IF ANY OF YOU OUT THERE THINK MURDERING ANYONE BECAUSE THEY ARE PRO-ABORTION IS JUSTIFIABLE, THINK AGAIN. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG AND GOD WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. I WOULD RATHER HAVE YOU COME AND MURDER ME THAN SOMEONE WHO IS NOT RIGHT WITH GOD.
You are in for world of HisMan’s pro-life actions “fasting and praying”; but what violence are you referring to? HisMan said that those who kill are bringing death upon themselves; it is not HisMan you need to fear, it is your insistence on your right to kill that is the mindset of killers everywhere and HisMan is trying to open your eyes to it.
Posted by: truthseeker at June 2, 2009 3:06 PM
-One more time:
“If the murder of children doesn’t stop, the murders will not stop. Not because we want these murders but because it’s a spiritual law that the shedding of innocent blood begets the shedding of blood.”
Why don’t you translate again for me and showcase how that doesn’t mean:
‘you’ll keep dying as long as you keep killing and there’s nothing we can do about it because that’s spiritual law. The only way that this will stop is if you stop.’
Unless you agree that that’s what HisMan means, and therefore, my first assertion was correct. Thanks.
Danielle,
Let me try to paraphrase it in another way that you may find easier to understand. The pro-choice side is for pro-choice to kill unborn humans. It is this same pro-choice to kill humans mentality that is behind all murder. So this “right” to choose to kill that is part of the mindset of all murderers. That is why it is not pro-life to kill. Only the pro-choice to kill side feels they have the “right” to kill unwanted humans.
HisMan,
Your last paragraph was indeed the kind of clarification needed.
You were not slandered. If you felt the need to clarify your position after reading it in print and sensing a reaction, then so be it. It was threatening, I still assert that.
I have no idea who you are, where you live. I’m in no position to round you and family up and nor would I care to. Why would I?
Now, here’s what’s interesting. You view my response to your post as potent enough to potentially lead to the harm of your family (which is, ludicrous) and assert that I would have directly or indirectly contributed to it. Yet, this is the exact same argument that we’re debating re: Tiller/Roeder and PL rhetoric.
Ironic.
MisHan: “… Not because we want these murders but because it’s a spiritual law that the shedding of innocent blood begets the shedding of blood.”
SG: Danielle …. MisHan, of the Christian Ole Testament school, is busy ‘RESURRECTING’ the ‘Eye fir an Eye’, universal law that blood spilled begets blood spilled. He’s not advocating it himself mind you, he’s simply advocating that it’s a Universal Law … So there’s no blood on his hands … Just Law …
Them Christian Ole Testament types seem to really ‘Love the Law’ …
Snerd
In other words, according to spiritual law, it is only when nobody is pro-choice to kill unwanted humans that no humans would choose to murder; so that would be the end of murdering. At least that is my understanding of HisMan’s statement regarding spiritual law.
Hi Danielle. I agree that bloodshed begets bloodshed. But I mean that as NO THREAT to anyone. What I mean is that a society which condones or even encourages killing in certain phases of the human lifecycle (abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide for example) is a society that sends the message that life isn’t valuable unless others attach worth to it. That kind of society doesn’t foster a sense of the worth of each person. Just the opposite. If we have a society where not everyone is valued equally or not everyone has a right to life, all of us are at greater risk of bloodshed by anyone who finds us to have little value, irrespective of laws to the contrary. Therefore bloodshed begets bloodshed.
Danielle:
It’s not like we created gravity or the laws of thermodynamics, we just discovered them and know how to harness them for good or evil, airplanes (good), bombs (evil).
Similarly, we did not state the 10 Commandments one of which says: “Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder”, God did and for our good by the way because He knows that breaking those commandments have bad consequences.
However, we have discovered what happens to people when they, through abortion, ruin their lives. First, innocent children are killed, mothers bare the emotional scars for the rest of their lives, etc., etc. We did not make this up, it’s observable.
We’re simply trying to warn them to protect them against the consequences of their actions.
Judgment is coming to this country, not because I want it, but because God has no other choice. By our continued disobedience, He will now try to get our attention. I don’t want this because it will affect everyone, not just pro-aborts but pro-lifers as well. We are suffering as a result of this economic downturn just as we would suffer if there was a natural disaster or a terrorist attack.
We are not your enemy Danielle, we are trying to protect you. You should stop attacking us for simply trying to love you.
If you plant daisey seeds, you get daiseys.
If you plant murder seed, you get murders.
Some folks call it karma, some call it planting and harvesting.
Murderers get murdered by other muderers all the time. It just goes with the territory. If you hang with muderers, it dramatically increses your opportuity to be murdered.
It is not rocket science. Set your pro-life/pro-choice bias on the back burner for just a second and you might just get a glimpse of the reality around you.
Why I bet the murdrer rate for nuns and priests and is way lower than gangsters and terrorists, even in places where ‘christians’ are persecuted and killed. If you do not hang out with bad people you will dramaticallty reduce the likelihood that bad people will do something bad to you.
No guarantees something bad will not happen to decent folk, but decent folk by definition avoid circumstances where they make themselves attractive prey for opportunistic predators.
yor bro ken
MisHan: “… YOU ARE A LIAR AND DISTORTER OF THE TRUTH. IF WHAT YOU SAY EVER RESULTS IN ANY HARM TO ME OR MY FAMILY YOU CAN BET I WILL USE YOUR WORDS IN A COURT OF LAW.”
SG: Once again, I find myself agreeing with another of MisHan’s underlying concepts … ;-) …
What and how someone speaks can have the consequences of resulting in harm.
This position, that vilifying rhetoric can lead to harm, conflicts with his “innocent blood spilt = more blood spilt” argument ‘explaining’ Tiller’s murder. Even though it represents a self contradiction, that’s not a problem. When you are the TRUTH, you can not be wrong … ‘Cause even if your are, you are not …
Snerd
We are not your enemy Danielle, we are trying to protect you. You should stop attacking us for simply trying to love you.
Posted by: HisMan at June 2, 2009 3:47 PM
-I don’t believe you’re my enemy. I do believe you’re a man of true conviction.
The purpose of dissenting views that are allowed on this board (thankfully) is to pull each other out of our bubbles. I’m in one, where most of my chosen community is very similar to me, you’re in one, etc. The talk for the past few days re: Tiller has been sanitized by the mods, and perhaps with good reason (I think you guys are under a microscope right now, so I don’t blame you). I don’t think I could stick around if I saw some of the bile.
You have a lot of people on this board, most even, who agree part and parcel with your views. The fundamental beliefs in what’s written in the bible, etc is natural to them. I, as the dissenter, am pointing out that it is not the case for many others and in these tense times, comments can be construed as something else. To someone who does not follow or interpret the bible as you do, it sounds a LOT different then your intend.
And we all have ideas on how the world will end. I’m sorry that you feel that we are on the road to a punishing Judgement Day of some sort, but I know it’s your belief. Personally I think we’ll all be long gone before our species is extinct and it will be at our own hand, but that’s just me.
Danielle:
It is you pro-aborts who are threatening us pro-lifers with hate crimes, etc., etc., when it is in reality you who hate despite us saying very directly and you who can’t seem to accept is that we do not condone murder. Just read Kelly’s posts of a few days ago and just about every Liberal rag in the country that puts all of us pro-lifers in Schoeder’s camp. This is disgraceful. This is what Hitler did with the Jews. He demonized a whole class of people. Is that what you want, you want all of pro-lifers to be sent to concentration camps and death camps?
If for some reason, what I post and you wrongly assert and misconstrue affect me in a negative way I will use your own word’s to protect myself from what I fear is coming and you promote; The silencing of all pro-lifers by lies, distortion, and intimidation using the Obama Gestapo.
I have the right to defend myself from attack that are complete lies.
I know what is going to happen if abortion doesn’t stop. I don’t know when but it will be bad. It will not only affect pro-choicers, it will affect pro-lifers as well.
I can review history and see consistently what happens when Innocent blood is shed. By the way, this is something you can discover as well just by reading books on slavery, the Civil War and WWI and WWII.
I’m pleading, I don’t want these bad things to happen to anyone, however, I can’t see apart from abortion being made illegal, how bad consequences will not be stopped as a result. I could be wrong, and I hope I am wrong, however, there’s just too much historical evidence for me not to be right.
KBH: “… Why I bet the murdrer rate for nuns and priests and is way lower than gangsters and terrorists […] but decent folk by definition avoid circumstances where they make themselves attractive prey for opportunistic predators.”
SG: Like church run Residential school, or being alter boys …
See … !
Putting all the responsibility on the victim can prove problematic when you assert it as a Universal Law. The conceptualization that ‘You are where you are, ’cause you deserve it (because of your choices)’, may have great ideological appeal, but it has practical limits. For example, the failure of the ‘Pro-Lifers’ to eliminate abortion might be a reflection of the impure intentions they also bring to a good cause. So, they are getting what they deserve, the ‘blame the victim’ argument would go.
Snerd
MisHan: “… just about every Liberal rag in the country that puts all of us pro-lifers in Schoeder’s camp. This is disgraceful. This is what Hitler did with the Jews. He demonized a whole class of people.”
SG: Yes! … And “Liberally” so, apparently.
Snerd
HisMan: “… I’m pleading, I don’t want these bad things to happen to anyone, however, I can’t see apart from abortion being made illegal, how bad consequences will not be stopped as a result. I could be wrong, and I hope I am wrong, however, there’s just too much historical evidence for me not to be right.”
SG: This is a very different statement. You are not claiming to speak THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, but instead the Truth as you see it.
Since you seem to want to convince Dan of your ‘historically’ valid observations, stating it as your view (and showing how you got there), creates a position Dan can more easily engage. Conversely, stating it absolute, black and white terms excludes Dan.
Snerd
HisMan, you make excellent points and I am in total agreement with you. You make the valid point that those that are “pro-choice for killing” think they have the right to kill another human being.
Abortionists like George Tiller were “pro-choice for killing” because they promoted the mistaken idea that they have the choice to kill another human being.
Scott Roeder is “pro-choice for killing” because he had the mistaken idea that he had the choice to kill another human being.
They are both equally wrong, and I see your point that the thought process is the same, and the pro-aborts promoting their “we should have the choice to kill” philosophy contributed to the general culture of death and was the same philosophy that Scott Roeder employed.
One little nit-pik I would disagree with you on is that bombs are always evil. Let me explain.
Say a murderer breaks into your house, kills one of your children and starts to kill the rest of them and your wife. You grab a fire poker when he is not looking and hit him over the head. Is the fire poker “evil?” No, I’d say the murderer is evil and God tells us to protect the innocent, which is what we did with the fire poker.
So as we move up the chain of evil, other people, groups, countries, armies do the equivalent of “breaking in and murdering” our innocent people (see “9-11-01”). Then we stop them with our fire pokers, guns, bombs, and so on…basically all the same things, just more effective in stopping the evil.
So, all I’m saying is we should not exclude one class of tools as “evil” when they are used for the distasteful but necessary process of eliminating evil-doers who are killing innocents.
Just sayin’
Danielle:
I think you are beginning to understand me.
When it was announced that Dr. Tiller was murdered I was in shock.
Over the last few days a great sense of sadness has fallen over me. I am not glad that Tiller was murdered but, I am not surprised either. Our past pleadings are evident that we did not want harm to come to him. Why else would we entreaty him to stop? Isn’t apathy the greatest measure of the absence of love?
What made me sad? So many lives being destroyed, Tiller, Schoeder, their families, the aborted babies, the moms, the dad, grandparents, ad infinitum. Does this make sense to anyone apart from there being evil in the world that opposes truth?
And if I were to embrace your last statement as true, i.e., we’re all just gonna end in oblivion, this assumes that I believed in evolution. However, doesn’t this contradict evolution? The very force of nature causing life from nothing ending up just terminating itself. Doesn’t click.
No, there is a monumental struggle going on between good and evil. God and Satan. As humans, we are the chattel being bargained for, our very souls.
The problem is that we demonize each other rather than recognize who the real enemy is.
From now on I’m going to realize that pro-aborts are not my enemy, rather they are victims of a lie, the efforts of the great deceiver.
The only remedy is love, agape love. Sometimes that kind of love hurts both the one giving it and the one recieving it.
HisMan: “… From now on I’m going to realize that pro-aborts are not my enemy, rather they are victims of a lie, the efforts of the great deceiver.”
SG: May I be the first to applaud the process you seem to have worked yourself through to … from Us ‘n Them to just an Us. Very commendable! Honestly!
Snerd
Angele,
Maybe there is a prolife::slumber party::conference we can get to??!! :)
You are mine.
Very wise words, HisMan. “The only remedy is love, agape love.”
And Jesus brought love to the world. Jesus IS love.
Thank you for that post…that really changed my thinking, because it is true: From now on I’m going to realize that pro-aborts are not my enemy, rather they are victims of a lie, the efforts of the great deceiver.
Keep posting, brother!
Hi Danielle,
HisMan speaks the Truth in love. May not be what you want to hear but he is sincere. You are being prayed for right now and cared about by people that only want to see you come to the Truth.
I have been sickened and saddened at the murder of Tiller. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and the family of his killer.
I hope you are well! Summer is on its way. I just know it! :)
GodsImage:
Yes, I know. I though of that while I was writing but I did not want to go off on a tangent.
A bomb can be used to kill terrorists (greater good) or innocent people (evil).
A gun can be used to defend or to murder.
So yes, we agree.
By the way, I have a vast array of weapons. I collect guns and knives. I love H&K, Taurus and D’Holder. I am a hunter and a shooter. I would never ever dream of hurting a person with my guns or knives unless I had to to protect myself or someone else.
To be honest, even though I say I am a hunter, I haven’t killed anything in probably 30 years. I do love the outdoors thought and being with the guys.
When I accidently hit birs with my car on the freeway I get totally bummed out.
So, call me a softie.
His Man,
Your heart is full of love, honesty, conviction and courage.
Over the past couple of days, people have asked me questions, almost challenging me, to defend our stance..(just like we see here) and thanks to you, I have answers at the ready…clear, concise and full of God’s truth.
Thanks,
a
It is you pro-aborts who are threatening us pro-lifers with hate crimes, etc., etc., when it is in reality you who hate despite us saying very directly and you who can’t seem to accept is that we do not condone murder. Just read Kelly’s posts of a few days ago and just about every Liberal rag in the country that puts all of us pro-lifers in Schoeder’s camp. This is disgraceful. This is what Hitler did with the Jews. He demonized a whole class of people. Is that what you want, you want all of pro-lifers to be sent to concentration camps and death camps? If for some reason, what I post and you wrongly assert and misconstrue affect me in a negative way I will use your own word’s to protect myself from what I fear is coming and you promote; The silencing of all pro-lifers by lies, distortion, and intimidation using the Obama Gestapo.
Posted by: HisMan at June 2, 2009 4:13 PM
-Well, where to begin with that one, ummmm…
No one is trying to silence a peaceful protester. Someone IS trying to stop intimidation, violence and incitement of violence. If you do not fall in the latter category, you’ve got nothing to worry about.
PS – I can’t read most of anything Kelly wrote because its all been deleted. I even had a post on another thread deleted today, and I truly have no idea why, so, there you go.
Hi Danielle. You can find some of Kelly’s posts here.
https://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2009/05/sunday_funny_40.html
Dan: “… I can’t read most of anything Kelly wrote because its all been deleted. I even had a post on another thread deleted today, and I truly have no idea why, so, there you go. “
SG: Yes … But noticing that helps one understand where the paranoia about being silenced comes from, Eh!?
Snerd
Well Snerd:
If my God weren’t so merciful and kind, I’d be in huge trouble.
Sometimes I think, “God, why do you let such terrible things happen like abortion?”
He says, “I have big shoulders”.
Yes, He wants the abortions to stop, not to hurt us, but to help us. He can handle the devastation, He can do anything. But, He wants us to not only speak out against abortion but to support mothers that are in difficult situations. I am doing all I can. He wants us to surrender our anger for abortion into patience, but not acquiescence.
I wish I could do more but I am not God. When things seem to be spinning out of control, He wants us to trust Him that even in an economic downturn, even in a problem pregnancy, even when we lose a loved one, even when one we so oppose is senselessly murdered and all we feel is defeat, we just have to fall into His arms and say, “you do it”.
He warns us that only bad will come to those who choose to not follow Him. He warns us in love, not hate. That is the message of the cross. He surrendered so too we should surrender in a world seemingly out of control, to One very much in control. I just wish more would listen. “You do it God, I can’t.”
Let me make a correction to all the above comments where I used the name Schoeder instead of Roeder for the man accused of murdering Dr. Tiller.
Sorry, my mistake, I’m getting old.
Thank you for your post, HisMan…I feel kinda silly for even bringing it up, it was such a nit pik!
But it did have the good effect of finding out you love hunting and shooting! Me too! ;-) I have a few weapons, too, I too love H&K,and Beretta. I, too, would never ever dream of hurting a person with my guns or knives unless I had to to protect myself or someone else.
So we have yet another thing in common!
Thanks again and I enjoy reading your well thought out and Christ-based posts.
Response to YLT at 1:29 AM
I asked you to stop demonizing pro-lifers, YLT. You immediately respond by demonizing me, a pro-lifer. Wow, that was a long run!
Anyways, I hope that all people have the opportunity to repent of their sins before death. We are all sinners and need to have repentance whenever we can. I understand that Tiller was probably in grave danger of eternal damnation; I cannot, however, say that he did go to hell or that he certainly was going to hell. This is God’s decision. Tiller could have been a good person without me knowing! I doubt that, but it is certainly possible.
Regardless, I don’t think killing a whole bunch of babies is something God likes…
Rest in peace, Dr. Tiller.
Hope is the right word Segamon and I also would hope all men have an opportunity to repent before they die. And we must all take care to be prepared because we don’t know when our time will come.
“For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.” 1 Thes 5:2
the idea that prolife “rhetoric” led to Tiller’s death is ridiculous.
First of all, the prolife community did what it needed to do regarding Tiller and any abortionist: it defined in no uncertain terms what Tiller did. He killed almost full-term babies. He specialized in killing babies 22weeks and older. Many of these babies were NOT deformed or ill as the pro”choice” media claims. Many of these babies were killed because their mothers simply decided late on in their pregnancies, they did not want them. The fact that the proabort movement deems it acceptable to kill disabled babies is another can of worms I will pass over at this time.
Although in the minds of prolifers there is no difference between aborting a 6week unborn baby and a 26 week unborn baby, it seems particularly heinous to abort babies, day after day, who are physically no different than a newborn baby except in size. Most would admit that it takes a “unique” individual to repeatedly abort late term babies.
The prolife community prayed for Tiller but also spent a great deal of time trying to stop him in legal ways. We were unsuccessful mainly because Tiller was protected by those to whom he paid money to for political reasons. I’m guessing this money afforded him the “protection” he seemed to have from serious prosecution despite the fact that at least one woman lost her life in his clinic and that he contravened the law in many ways in how he did his abortions.
Myself, I find the silence from Kathleen Sebelius deafening. Has anyone heard/read a statement by this woman?
angle, No. Did she clam up? Maybe she just used Tiller to get what she wanted. Isn’t that what the pro death crowd does? Lie, use each other, back stab each other…………..
Angel 6:39am
Don’t bang your head against a rock trying to convince these people.
When I hear the same outrage about the killing of that soldier that I’ve heard about the killing of Tiller, then they will have some credibility.
When I hear them use their same meaningless and asinine arguments that “rhetoric” caused the killing of that soldier, then they will have some credibility.
Their “outrage” is highly selective and hypocritical. They don’t have a leg to stand on.
I say we blame Clinton and Obama instead — after all — there was no “anti-abortion violence” during Pres. Bush’s years in office like there was during Clinton’s and now Obama’s.
Mary and Eileen 2, good points!!!
I work at the clinic and I can tell you I have been harassed and threated by the so called peaceful prolifers. And the chicken that started in the attic window has been their for years to keep the pigens from smashing into the windows. Funny how the regular prolifers where on their best behavior when they did their 40day 40nite thing. They stand in the driveway to try and stop cars from coming in. The know the employees cars and they will stand there in the driveway egging you on to hit them. They try and shove brochures in car windows, usually hitting the windows because they are rolled up. The insult and demean patients and employees as they enter. They call the office and say inflammatory things. But when asked the prolifers say “we have no idea what they are saying.” Come on at least Wayne tells it like it is. You people hide behide your prolife signs.
I’m not even going to waste my time listening to that disgusting ghoul prattering. However, I will tell you why he seems so full of rationalization:
This man, when he was one, had wanted to be a dermatologist. After his family was killed in a plane crash, he went to close his father’s (who had also been a doctor) practice, but found out that his father had done abortions, and many people in his famly wanted him to take over his father’s practice rather than close it. This was the emotional death of the man Tiller, and the birth of the insane, rationalizing robot you heard. I really do almost pity him. This man (yet another I encounter in my lifetime) was failed by his family. In order for someone to know that something is wrong, most times, they have to be told or shown it is, that is the purpose of families. This man had no such guidance.
How did you come to work there, Stacy? No offense, but you don’t seem to be very well spoken, leading me to believe you might lack educational resources. Were you a young person/mother in a crisis pregnancy they took advantage of? I’m curious because I’ve heard of many women in bad situations that are preyed upon by such clinics.
I’m sorry xalisae. Did I not spell or use grammer correctly. As you quoted,”you don’t seem to be very well spoken, leading me to believe you might lack educational resources.” I am highly well educated, and there it is people like you just assuming uneducated people only get abortions. We have had nurses, doctors, church memembers from the church that protest outside, mothers, teenages, and even gradmothers get abortion. Abortion is not for the uneducated or as you put it, “young person/mother in a crisis pregnancy they took advantage of. You offened me by assuming Iam uneducated and that is why I must work there. I work there because every women has a right to have an abortion if she so pleases, and you should look back in history to see how many women died from illegal back alley coat-hanger abortions. This is what your people want women to go back to. Back I guess that is okay if a women dies trying to have an abortion in your eyes, or kill a doctor who legally performs them in a safe manner.
No, actually, you didn’t spell correctly or use correct grammar. You didn’t in this last post, either. I certainly didn’t mean to put you on the defensive about your credentials, I was just curious because I’ve heard MANY stories of women being dragged into the abortion industry because of predatory practices on the provider’s part.
I never said anything close to “only uneducated people get abortions.” Have you had one? If so, you have my sincere sympathies, along with all the other women you’ve mentioned. I wish I could’ve been there to tell them that abortion is never an answer. As someone who had a crisis pregnancy myself, I can speak from experience that although it might seem like the only option at the time, you can work through it, and there is never a good reason to kill your baby.
I did not try to assume you are uneducated, some people just are not very good at spelling/grammar (my husband is one) and are quite intelligent. I just asked about your educational history as I said earlier because of my curiosity regarding the predatory practices of abortion providers who often use women in bad situations to their own ends.
“Abortion” is itself a euphamism, you realize? The actual abortion procedure stops the life cycle of another human being, “termination” being another euphamism for “killing”, and therefore I’m afraid that I cannot nor will I ever support the legality of such an act. And once again, any woman who can bring harm to herself in an attempt to kill her offspring certainly has more problems in her life than just that pregnancy, and such women should be helped in MANY ways. Abortion is not help.