New Stanek WND column, “Abortion vs. cat ‘murders'”
… In April someone began mutilating and killing cats in 2 Miami-Dade neighborhoods. The outcry with demands to make it stop were instant.
Animal cruelty is despicable. Only sick people hurt and kill defenseless animals. That’s how Jeffrey Dahmer got his start.
But knowing the same sorts of torturous acts are committed every day against human beings in at least 25 Miami area abortion clinics with no public protest makes me a little crazy. These would include… an abortion survivor who was suffocated in a plastic bag and thrown on the clinic roof for a week until he was so infested by maggots he couldn’t be properly autopsied….
Mainstream media accounts attempting to humanize, dramatize and describe the cat killings in contrast to how they attempt to dehumanize, sanitize and obfuscate abortion make me a little crazy. Some excerpts:“At a news conference… city and county leaders… reassured the community that the ‘reign of terror’ was over.” (CBS) “… the killing spree…” (KPLG) “… [M]y heart goes out to those families who have lost their dear kitties ’cause I understand that pet owners feel very strongly about their little family members…. To see them so violated and so mutilated just defies all common sense and is painful for everyone involved. Thankfully… the terror has come to an end. And what of the perpetrator, depraved, demented, twisted.” – Miami-Dade Commissioner Katy Sorenson (CBS) “… a slew of brutal cat murders and mutilations…” (CBS)…
Continue reading my column today, “Abortion vs. cat ‘murders,'” at WorldNetDaily.com.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Thank you for your article. It demonstrates the total insanity and depravity of a society that puts more value on the life of a cat than on the life of a human being made in God’s image. Such moral blindness is the direct result of years of indoctrination in an evolutionary worldview that denies the Biblical doctrine of Creation. Articles such as this ensure that the fight against abortion will not be forgotten or ignored.
This is exactly what is so frustrating to me. Animal cruelty is socially unacceptable, people get outraged. But when it comes to an innocent baby or a woman maimed from an abortionist, silence. Of course the exceptions are the countercultural prolifers like Jill, but otherwise deafening silence. How completely insane!
When will people wake up and care as much for the babies humans as they do the puppies, kittens, manatees, sea turtle eggs, panthers, polar bears, cows etc. etc……
How unbelievably sad and twisted. I will never understand how one can have such a mindset that places animals such as cats as worth being protected, but human babies as being considered “garbage” or “evidence”, not worth anything…It’s insanity!
How can one be so against their own kind?
If someone was stealing babies and leaving their carcasses outside, there would be outrage. These women are CHOOSING to have abortions. There’s no comparison.
Mark F, so there would be no problem if I CHOSE to have my own cat mutilated and left it’s carcass out for people to see?
Oh and by the way, you didn’t even read Jill’s example apparently, because she was talking about a baby that was already born and separate from the mother before it was killed.
Mark,
Your tone sounds like a mind set that the women and babies deserve what they get since the mom is in the abortion mill to begin with.
Just because this “choice” was made legal in 1973 doesn’t make it acceptable or right. Women and their babies deserve protection despite the desperate choice the mother may be coerced into.
And as far as babies corpses being left outside, I can’t help but wonder if there would be outrage. It has happened before and it barely gets reported, because it it does not promote the pro-choice agenda. It reveals the ugly side of it.
Mark F, I agree with you. These “pro-life” people are sick and twisted. I love all the “god” talk, because if there really was a “god”, then “god” created all living beings, not just people. But since cats are not “god” fearing creatures, they don’t seem to count. Why do pro-lifers think it is OK to KILL a doctor but not an unborn fetus?!? Tyler Weinman is a classic example of an unwanted baby who should have been aborted.
Danielle, it doesn’t require religion to be able to see that people are at least a bit above animals, considering we have the whole justice system to prosecute an animal abuser, and they don’t. And, just because one can comprehend this difference and recognize it for what it is does not mean that we feel that animals are not worthy of love, care, and protection. I hope to finish my education to be a vet one day, and I don’t think I’d be doing that if I didn’t care about lesser creatures. No one here has said it is “ok” to kill a doctor, and I’m pretty sure if we felt that way, there’d be a lot more doctors getting injured or killed than hmm…0ne a decade? By someone who wasn’t even recognized by the movement? And was an unstable mental patient off his meds? People like you who love to make (FALSE) generalizations about “pro-life” really kinda make me mad. It’s people like you who are making me have to fight tooth-and-nail to get atheist pro-lifers like myself and others to be acknowledged. You need to adjust your attitude.
There was the release of an undercover video in the Nashville area of a vet who was putting dogs to sleep in a manner many found objectionable. They were supposed to be put down but he was giving them a shot into their hearts that killed them instantly. The outrage and demonstrations and calls for him to be fired! that animals were being killed in such a callous manner! But where was the same outrage for how babies are aborted…..NONE
Wait a minute, I get it now! Those cats were wanted!! My apologies!
Prior to the Flood, man’s wickedness had become so great that God said that He was sorry that he created the human race. He then made a decision to destroy mankind and everything in it save for Noah, his family, and yes, animals. How tragic is this scenario? He did offer mankind a means of escaping the desruction.
He told Noah what to do despite the ridicule of the people of the day who did not listen to the warnings of an impending catastrophe; a deluge that would cover the highest mountain. And because of his obedience, Noah and his loved ones and a remnant of animals were saved through the vast destruction of a worldwide deluge through an ark which was the means of their salvation through the water.
I was listening to a “How the Earth Was Made” series on TV the other day and they were talking about how, because of plate tectonics, that there is enough water stored in the crust of the earth between the surface and the mantle to fill the entire earth’s surface to a level of 25,000 feet. Well, how did the Bible know this over 4,000 years ago when it said, “the fountains of the earth were opened up”? Yes, God not only caused it to rain for 40 days and nights, He also caused the water stored in underground aquifers to bubble up and flood the entire earth’s surface. Many geologist doubt this happened, yet, they say there is evidence of a great catastrophe a few thousand years ago and point to a meteor hit, etc. It’s amazing how the god of this world can blind people when the truth is staring them in the face.
And now, a few thousand years later, once again the human race, for the most part has again become as wicked as it was just prior to the Flood save for a remnant of believers in Jesus Christ.
Well, God said that he would not destroy the earth again by a great Flood, however, he did say that it would be destroyed by fire.
We who are believers in Jesus Christ and are pro-life because of that are like Noah stating, “God will again destroy the earth but this time by fire. Please listen, please believe, and as a result understand that abortion is murder”.
Yes, the solution to this abortion holocaust is not making abortion illegal, it is proclaiming the Good News that one can be saved from the coming catastrophe of worldwide destruction by believing in Jesus Christ. If this were to happen, abortion would become illegal overnight as a natural result. Those of you who claim Christ but are pro-choice, are you listening?
The insanity of what is going on in today’s world as evidenced by this post can make one “crazy” as Jill states. We should not be surprised as the Bible teaches that the human heart is very wicked and in need of redemption. We should not become crazy at the wickedness, we should be moved to tell everyone the truth that Jesus Christ is Lord and that He is returning soon.
In a world that can become outraged at the cruel death of a cat or a whale or a frog, and rightfully so, but fail to recognize that a magnitude greater evil is being perpetrated right under our noses via abortion, every day, in every city, in every state throughout our nation, is symptomatic of a people who have become blinded to the evil around them. They deserve our compassion not our contempt. They are doomed unless that can be made to see the light and this should outrage us as well. Satan is the enemy, not the people who are being decieved by this great evil being.
Jesus is soon returning again. This is inexorable. We will not get another chance after this. No. we will either believe and be saved or be forever lost. Who will proclaim this to the world despite the ridicule, despite the contempt, despite the persecution?
“Here I am Lord, send me”.
We believers must point the world to the Ark, to Jesus Christ, that will save them from the coming destruction. The vast majority will not listen and will be lost.
Be not made crazy though, He has overcome the world.
To xalisae…People ARE NOT above animals, in any way shape or form!!! They have just as much right to be on this planet as any other being. The reason I am pro-abortion is because there are too many people on this planet and they are ruining it!!! They won’t stop breeding and alot of these parents don’t even take care of their kids, let alone teach them respect, manners and how to behave in general. It is out of control. I am ‘kinda’ glad I kinda made you mad. And please, don’t tell me I need to adjust my attitude. That’s the problem with you people, you want to control everyone elses thoughts and beliefs.
I never said any life form is MORE entitled to be on this earth than any other, just that humans have capacity for reason and logic above others (with the exception of yourself). You’re obviously a lunatic, and if you think animals are so much better than we evil humans who are ruining this planet, I want you to quit typing on your computer, stop living in your house, take off all your clothes, and find a nice pasture to graze in. Not only will you be elevated to the level of the miraculous animal kingdom that is so much better than all us lowly humans, but we won’t have to mess with any of your idiocy any longer. Win-win.
xalisae, YOU scare me…your mentality is EXACTLY why most people utterly disgust me. I can’t believe you want to become a vet!!!
As I said before, if you don’t like us and would rather keep the company of animals, put your money where your mouth is and live like them as well. Go run away to live with the jellyfish, Spongebob.
I don’t see why I’m so frightening to you…Because I can comprehend that humans should use their superior intelligence, reasoning, and logical skills not only to the benefit of their race, but all species on this planet, and I don’t think that our interests are exclusive to the interests of other creatures on this planet? That I think we can live together and work for each other instead of this ridiculous “us vs. them” mentality in which you’re childishly indulging? Why does that scare you?
“To xalisae…People ARE NOT above animals, in any way shape or form!!! They have just as much right to be on this planet as any other being. The reason I am pro-abortion is because there are too many people on this planet and they are ruining it!!! They won’t stop breeding and alot of these parents don’t even take care of their kids, let alone teach them respect, manners and how to behave in general. It is out of control. I am ‘kinda’ glad I kinda made you mad. And please, don’t tell me I need to adjust my attitude. That’s the problem with you people, you want to control everyone elses thoughts and beliefs.
Posted by: Danielle at June 17, 2009 9:52 AM”
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Danielle:
You make my heart cry. You don’t want us to “control your thoughts or beliefs”, no, you just want to exterminate people to save the planet? How is this statement sane?
For once, you have stated in a nutshell the entire value system of the pro-abortion movement. Moderators, there you have it. Let the world hear it. A pro-abortion advocate has finally stated the truth about what they believe.
Know this Danielle, humans are made in the image and likeness of God. For you not to be able to see the difference is extremely troubling.
In fact, the only difference between you and a serial killer is that you would not do the act. However, the mindset and heart condition are exactly the same.
I’ll pray for you Danielle. I can only guess as to what made you like this. If you are how most youth think today, we are in big, big trouble. I am absolutely in shock that anyone can think like you do.
Know this Danielle, God loves you, He cares for you and he knows what made you like this. We pro-lifers can’t change you for you have a terminal heart condition. Only the Great Physician can help you.
Danielle: “Why do pro-lifers think it is OK to KILL a doctor but not an unborn fetus?!? Tyler Weinman is a classic example of an unwanted baby who should have been aborted.”
So…you favor a kind of preemptive death penalty, eh, Danielle? You apparently believe we should go into neighborhoods, find people who were “unwanted” at birth, and kill them, right?
And the issue of whether we’re “higher” than animals is a separate one from whether unborn children should be killed. I’m okay with someone who believes respect for non-human animals should match respect for human ones. What’s not okay is advocating the killing of some of the human population because you think “there are too many people.”
HisMan, she’s just a confused and bitter child. I wasn’t as bad, but similar in my angsty youth. Part of the reason I originally decided to become a vet instead of a doctor to begin with (back when I was in 2nd grade) was because I felt humans weren’t deserving of my life’s work. I eventually grew up though, and perhaps one day Danielle will as well. I still want to be a vet, because I still love animals just as much as ever, but I’ve grown out of the disdain for humans I once had.
If someone was stealing babies and leaving their carcasses outside, there would be outrage. These women are CHOOSING to have abortions. There’s no comparison.
Posted by: Mark F at June 17, 2009 8:22 AM
——
So you know that these women are mothers who are choosing to kill their own babies. Only in the pro-abort mind is there no comparison.
The Nazis were very methodical and clean about how they ran their concentration camps. Just because it is being done surgically doesn’t mean it’s not gruesome.
xalisae:
You have a good heart. I don’t think you are an a-theist, I think you are an a-religionist. I can understand this. I do not like religion either.
This is why I love Jesus Christ. Once you allow yourself to discover Him I think you will love him too.
As far as Danielle goes, yes she is very confused and angry. If she calms down and analyzes what she believes and says, perhaps she will see that and change just based on their illogical nature. We can only try to point her in the right direction, even though she sees this as forcing her when we are actually loving her.
I believe Christ can change her as He changed me and attempts to change all of us.
I never said anything about exterminating people!!! Sheesh. And yes, I am angry about certain things and I am allowed to be…and for your info, I am not “youth.” What a bunch of presumptuous morons. HA! Oh, and please don’t waste your time praying for me, your “god” probably doesn’t like me either. One more thing, xalisae, what are you going to do when someone brings their pregnant animal to you to be aborted and spayed? Going to have a big rally outside your office? I happen to work for veterinarians, I know what goes on. Good luck.
Danielle,
You ok? You are fed up. I get that.
Yes, and animals have to often be euthanized, as well. But here’s the thing: ANIMALS AREN’T PEOPLE. See how easy it is when you’re able to make that distinction? Not everyone shares your mental disorder (if this isn’t sociopathy, I don’t know what is). In doing that to an animal, I wouldn’t be violating a Hippocratic oath.
Also, there are plenty of adults who are children, and many young people I know are quite mature. A chronological age is not a reflection of one’s mental state of development, and there are plenty of older people who need to be told to grow up. It just makes your situation all the more sad.
“One more thing, xalisae, what are you going to do when someone brings their pregnant animal to you to be aborted and spayed?”
So animals are aborted too? Isn’t that abhorrent to an animal lover? I mean, the animal doesn’t get to choose. Oh, wait, population control is a good thing.
* * * *
“I never said anything about exterminating people!!!”
Actually, you kinda sort did:
“The reason I am pro-abortion is because there are too many people on this planet and they are ruining it!!!”
And perhaps people assume you’re rather young because of your generous use of exclamation points.
I mean, I can’t rule it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reason I am pro-abortion is because there are too many people on this planet and they are ruining it!!! They won’t stop breeding and alot of these parents don’t even take care of their kids, let alone teach them respect, manners and how to behave in general. It is out of control. I am ‘kinda’ glad I kinda made you mad. And please, don’t tell me I need to adjust my attitude. That’s the problem with you people, you want to control everyone elses thoughts and beliefs.
Posted by: Danielle at June 17, 2009 9:52 AM”
_______________________
I never said anything about exterminating people!!! ……………….
Posted by: Danielle at June 17, 2009 11:05 AM
________________________
Danielle:
You said, “The reason I am pro-abortion is because there are too many people on this planet and they are ruining it!!!”
If this is not a direct statement that you advocate the extermination of people via abortion I don’t know what is. And in making this statemetn you just admitted that abortion exterminates people.
And you have the audacity to say this, deny that you said it and call us morons?
I am tempted to absolutely destroy you with words Danielle, however, Carla’s comment is more compassionate and I will run with it out of respect for her. I have to admit, you really know how to push the pro-lifer hot buttons and then accuse us of being pro-life terrorists when we express our outrage. It’s geting so old.
But please, please don’t deny what you said or at least apologize for making it and the retract it. Otherwise, admit who you are and face the music.
Wow. So you’re not pro-choice, Danielle. You’re pro-abortion. Are you also pro-infanticide? If the problem is too many people ruining the planet, shouldn’t we solve it by killing some born people too? I mean, why stop with abortion. Your aim is population reduction,right?
I appreciate that HisMan. :)
Danielle doesn’t usually sound like that. We all have our days, and I am giving her the benefit of the doubt, I guess.
Carmen Diaz just said pretty much the same thing Danielle said about “too many people” so they are both misinformed.
OK Carla:
I’ll trust your instincts on this one.
My gut wants to explode, however, I will restrain myself as you try to love Danielle.
I guess I’ll just need to have pity on her.
This should run chills down the spines of everyone as it is in direct sync with Danielle’s post. The goal of pro-abort, envrionmental whackos it to put the environment and the planet before humans:
Let me ask you this Mr. Gates, Mr. Soros, and Ms. Winfrey: “How exactly do you propose that we control world population? Perhpas you might be the first ones to voluteeer?”
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99105
“THE NEW WORLD DISORDER
Secret billionaire club seeks population control
Gates, Rockefeller, Turner, Oprah, Buffett, Soros, Bloomberg attend meeting
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Posted: May 24, 2009
6:48 pm Eastern
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
Bill Gates
WASHINGTON – Some of the richest men and women in the world met secretly recently in New York to conspire on using their vast wealth to bring the world’s population growth under control.
The meeting included some of the biggest names in the “billionaires club,” according to the London Times – Bill Gates, David Rockefeller, Ted Turner, Oprah Winfrey, Warren Buffett, George Soros and Michael Bloomberg.
The meeting at the home of Sir Paul Nurse, a British Nobel Prize-winning biochemist and president of Rockefeller University, was the inspiration of Gates and took place three weeks ago.
“The informal afternoon session was so discreet that some of the billionaires’ aides were told they were at ‘security briefings,'” the Times reported today.
Stacy Palmer, editor of the Chronicle of Philanthropy, speculated that the secrecy surrounding the meeting may have been due to concern that “they don’t want to be seen as a global cabal.”
Get the inside story on the globalist insiders who have been meeting for decades in highly guarded secret. Learn from author who penetrated Bilderbergers
According to the Times, the billionaires were each given 15 minutes to present their favorite cause. Over dinner they discussed how they might settle on an “umbrella cause” that could harness their interests. Taking their cue from Gates, the report said, they agreed population control was the No. 1 issue.
In February, Gates, 53, outlined an ambitious plan to cap global population at 8.3 billion – about one billion fewer than currently projected.
Patricia Stonesifer, former chief executive of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, said the billionaires would continue to meet over the next few months.
A guest at the meeting told the Times population growth would be addressed as a potentially disastrous environmental, social and industrial threat.
“This is something so nightmarish that everyone in this group agreed it needs big-brain answers,” said the guest. “They need to be independent of government agencies, which are unable to head off the disaster we all see looming.”
As to secrecy, the guest said, “They wanted to speak rich to rich without worrying anything they said would end up in the newspapers, painting them as an alternative world government.”
Xalisae…this was an AWESOME post. Thank you!
“I never said any life form is MORE entitled to be on this earth than any other, just that humans have capacity for reason and logic above others (with the exception of yourself). You’re obviously a lunatic, and if you think animals are so much better than we evil humans who are ruining this planet, I want you to quit typing on your computer, stop living in your house, take off all your clothes, and find a nice pasture to graze in. Not only will you be elevated to the level of the miraculous animal kingdom that is so much better than all us lowly humans, but we won’t have to mess with any of your idiocy any longer. Win-win.
Posted by: xalisae at June 17, 2009 10:04 AM”
It IS unfortunate that someone was mistreating these cats so terribly, though.
I mean, I get that it’s nothing in comparison with abortion.
But it’s no less gruesome in and of itself.
I’m sorry to hear that it was happening. I don’t think we should overlook that. We ARE, after all, called to be stewards to this earth, aren’t we? Aren’t we expected to take care of the Lord’s creatures? All of them?
And listen, I don’t believe in the animal soul. I believe we were given dominion over the animals. It’s why I believe that we are responsible for taking care of them. This act was a complete violation of that care, that responsibility.
So is abortion. But worse, because babies DO have souls.
It all makes me sad.
But knowing the same sorts of torturous acts are committed every day against human beings in at least 25 Miami area abortion clinics with no public protest makes me a little crazy. These would include… an abortion survivor who was suffocated in a plastic bag and thrown on the clinic roof for a week until he was so infested by maggots he couldn’t be properly autopsied….
There’s a difference here that you’re not quite grasping.
Abortion is legal.
Animal abuse is not legal.
And the fetus in the Hialeah case was too early to have been viable, so the state attorney was unable to indict anyone for homicide in that case.
If you don’t like the law, change it. Blaming the state’s attorney for following the law is just stupid.
“Yes, and animals have to often be euthanized, as well. But here’s the thing: ANIMALS AREN’T PEOPLE. See how easy it is when you’re able to make that distinction?”
Well actually I believe it’s more accurate to say NON-HUMAN Animals aren’t people. But people ARE animals. So in a way Animals ARE people. We’re not better or above animals. Just because humans evolved to a point at which we can reason and have logic and in essence, take over the earth, doesn’t make us BETTER/ABOVE and separate.
I agree with Danielle, and I know she’s frustrated and is saying somethings in frustration that are being taken out of the context of her anger and frustration. But I am totally with her on this one. You have my support and understanding Danielle, but I tend to try to stay out of these arguements, as entertaining as it can be to observe. Blood baths and mudslinging aren’t really my style.
“Well actually I believe it’s more accurate to say NON-HUMAN Animals aren’t people. But people ARE animals.”
Point taken, and I agree on it. However, you wouldn’t agree that the capacity to a.) understand that another animal is in distress, b.) comprehend what that distress is, c.) have the capacity to devise a way to solve it, d.) use our minds and other resources to do something about it e.) feel empathy for the other animal which leads to a desire to end that creature’s pain…
Wouldn’t you say all these things put humans as a responsibility level above other animals, both to our own species and the other species on this planet?
No, because not all those qualities that you describe are uniquely human.
But I would agree that linking those qualities/abilities in order the way you do is possibly unique to humans.
And I do agree that humans have a greater responsibility because of our abilities that other non-human animals do not possess. However, I completely disagree that the possession of unique abilities makes us more important than other species.
“The reason I am pro-abortion is because there are too many people on this planet and they are ruining it!!! They won’t stop breeding and alot of these parents don’t even take care of their kids, let alone teach them respect, manners and how to behave in general. It is out of control”
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It sounds like your main complaint is the IRRESPONSIBLE behaviour of people re: sex, family, taking care of the earth and relationships with each other.
And abortion/ killing of the unborn will solve which problem??
With great power comes great responsibility. Because we know that needless killing should be unacceptable, we should refrain from it, no matter what species you are talking about killing. But we don’t. This is the problem pro-lifers want to fix.
“These “pro-life” people are sick and twisted.”
“Why do pro-lifers think it is OK to KILL a doctor but not an unborn fetus?!?”
“That’s the problem with you people, you want to control everyone elses thoughts and beliefs.”
“What a bunch of presumptuous morons.”
Danielle, this is the first time I’ve ever seen shrill amd insulting comments from you. In fact, many of the pro-lifers on here cite you by name as a pro-choicer who is respectful, thought-provoking and refrains from ad hominem attacks. I have enjoyed several debates with you. Why the change in tone? Did the article’s reference to animal cruelty upset you?
Xalisae,
Did you just quote spiderman? :)
The outrage following the twisted cat killings seems appropriate to me. I would be traumatized if this happened to one of my pets. This sort of thing should never be tolerated – that’s why we have harsh punishments for animal cruelty.
But I don’t think the message of Jill’s article was to belittle the community outrage. I believe the point was that over 3,000 unborn human beings are dismembered daily, yet we are often pressured to not “call a spade a spade” and accept misleading euphemisms. This community was openly disgusted by the killing of innocent animals, and rightfully so. But the pro-life movement is mocked for their disgust at the killing of innocent humans. There are numerous sickening realities surrounding abortion (the particulars of the procedure, disregarding of the fetal capacity for pain, the physical and emotional consequences to mothers, etc), yet when the pro-life movement points these out, we receive a collective eye roll from society and are dismissed as overreactive and judgemental.
I’m sure the quote was around before Spiderman. ;P
Yes, I’m not sure where anyone gets the idea that the abuse of animals is condoned by this post. The point is not that it’s okay to abuse animals… it’s that we should be as outraged by the fact that human babies are treated this way as we are that animals are treated this way.
My daughter wants to be a vet as well, and her tender heart cries for animal victims… and human ones.
Danielle, humans are not ruining this planet. It is humans who feed and care for these animals. Humans I know who spend more on their animals’ medical care than they do on their own… who worry and search for cures, and tend to these animals… who use their higher reasoning powers to seek the higher good for them.
I think it is sad that you only see the evil in society. I suppose that in your environment, one that is pro-death of innocent babies, it must be all that you can see… it is not, however, the full truth.
I love my kittens and my adult cat. One would not want to be the person caught abusing them any more than one would want to be the person caught abusing my children… the response would be harsh, I assure you. That being said, there are differences in what I expect of my children and of my pets. (For example, I don’t expect my kittens to clean up after the babies, but I do expect the children to clean up after the kittens…)
I’m with Janette. Danielle is usually an extremely reasonable debater who rarely resorts to ad hominem. I’m guessing the content of the post upset her.
Danielle, I’m guessing you and I disagree on this matter, but I understand why you are upset. In no way would I condone the sort of behavior which is the subject of the post, and I don’t believe any of the regular commenters were trying to condone it either.
I hope all is well.
I’m wondering if the Danielle posting today is a different Danielle than the one who posts here frequently. It really doesn’t seem like her tone.
I was an animal control officer/Humane Investigator for years.
I can guarantee that we will hear from the cat killer again. Only next time he won’t be killing cats or even embryos; he’ll be torture-murdering women, children, or effeminate gay men.
If you are frightened by the prospect of a woman choosing to end a potention person, then you should be quaking in your boots knowing that this little freak WILL be released to roam among your loved ones. He WILL torture murder again. There is a vast difference in the quality of the danger.
I am new to this messageboard/blog. Came across it when I googled Tyler Weinman.
Thank you Talula & Lauren.
Here is a great Mark Twain quote:
Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one that inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it.
You’re right, Laura. He may even become an abortionist who gets off on sadistic treatment of his patients.
Seriously, though, I fail to see how it is somehow taking away from the severity of the attacks against the cats by noting that we should be at least equally upset by the treatment of babies and women.
Okay, now the comments make a bit more sense. Different Danielles.
P.S. I meant Laura, not Lauren.
Aaaaahhhh. The veil is lifted.
Hello Danielle.
Elisabeth,
I agree. Neither should detract from the impact of the other.
Hello Newest Danielle.
Welcome!!!
Ohhhhhhh. Not the same Danielle. My apologies, new Danielle. My post to you must’ve been confusing.
Seriously, though, I fail to see how it is somehow taking away from the severity of the attacks against the cats by noting that we should be at least equally upset by the treatment of babies and women.
Posted by: Elisabeth at June 17, 2009 5:26 PM
Most definitely. It’s not as if the cats’ rights are in conflict with the rights of the unborn. In fact, these two victimized groups have some parallels: innnocent of wrong doing, unable to speak for themselves, and deserving of our responsiblity as able bodied persons to ensure their protection.
Confirms my assertion: “If George Tiller had stated publicly that he had single handedly killed 60,000 prenatal kittens and puppies the news would have echoed around the planet quicker than the news of a cure for cancer.
yor bro ken
It is a beutiful sentament. It would not be more beautiful if it were true.
Mark Twain
yor bro ken
I’ve said for years that if you want to get a liberal to be against abortion, dress up an unborn as a harp seal…
ken, dogs and cats have abortions on a pretty regular basis. Often pet owners don’t get them fixed in time, then they get pregnant, then they take them in to the vet and they get fixed and have the pregnancies terminated at the same time.
“ken, dogs and cats have abortions on a pretty regular basis.”
Why don’t the pet owners wait ’til after the (litter?) puppies are born to get the animal fixed? Maybe if abortion wasn’t so common with puppies, pro-aborts would think twice about aborting baby humans. Just a thought.
check this out – too funny –
PETA wishes Obama hadn’t swatted that fly
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hNw_VW9Dlp19RvvaxvSLo5TZRwSQD98SQ0606
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Janet- we already have a pretty serious overpopulation problem with domesticated animals. I’d just as soon get rid of the ‘puppies’ before they’re born than see them put to sleep at an animal shelter. I wish that it never happened (healthy animals being euthanized), but we would be overrun with stray animals, who could become aggressive, without it.
And I saw that article about the fly earlier today. I giggled.
The comparison between animal rights and abortion never works well. While the Gonzalez story is disgusting, the only fair thing to compare the cat murderer to would be someone who was murdering neighbourhood children. Would there be an uproar about that?
As already pointed out, there are serious overpopulation problems with domestic animals, and pregnant ones are routinely aborted. Imagine trying to find space for 6 more puppies when your resources are already stretched to the limit, as most shelters’ are.
Domestic animals are also routinely forcibly sterilized to help with population control. Are these issues something pro-lifers want to bring to the abortion debate as comparable good ideas for humans?
That debate really doesn’t help your cause and probably hinders it. Leave the animals out of it! They’ve got enough problems.
Will there be as much outrage over the 3,700 babies killed today? Hardly.
That is the point of Jill’s post.
Will there be as much outrage over the 3,700 babies killed today? Hardly.
That is the point of Jill’s post.
Will there be outrage over all the cats and dogs receiving abortions today? Hardly.
If it were neighbourhood children being “mutilated and killed” like the cats, it would be a fair comparison, and surely the outrage would be terrible.
Domestic animals and humans don’t make a fair comparison unless you consider everything about how animals are treated, and that includes the involuntary sterilization and abortion that even animal lovers usually support for population control. Is that something pro-lifers would support for humans?
There’s enough real material to work with in the pro-life cause without twisting and manipulating the argument with bad examples like animal rights.
Though human beings may act like animals — they are not animals. Human beings have an intellect and a will. Animals do not — they act according to their instincts. You can not equate or elevate animal rights above human rights. Does it mean that animal cruelty should be tolerated? No! But the point of this story is that there are so many people who respond to animal cruelty who ignore the same cruelty when it involves the unborn. Many people have become desensitized because we have had legalized abortion for 30+ years now. (BTW, to use the argument that abortion is legal is no argument at all.) But I think that people are beginning to wake up to the reality of abortion.
I didn’t even mention the word cat. Until now. Cat.
No…we all ARE animals. It’s not a slur. Anything on earth can be classified as animal, vegetable, or mineral. When someone says, “I’M certainly not an animal!” I want to ask him/her if (s)he, then, is a plant or a rock.
And I, too, wish President Obama hadn’t swatted that fly. I like to believe I’m consistent on respecting life.
…and my further thoughts on the fly issue can be found here:
http://benevolentgrammarian.blogspot.com/2009/06/obama-gets-one-right-but-also-kills.html
bmmg39:
What we have in common with all living things is that we were all created.
The difference is that humans were created in the image and likeness of God. Think about that, we are like God himself: his eternal nature, his capacity to feel emotion, think and create. The difference between humans and all other creation is beyond profound. To not understand this difference can only lead to misconceptions of who we are.
That is why so many on this site who see animals as equal to humans can also be pro-abortion. As Scott Peck calls them, “People of the Lie”.
To not acknowledge what God has done by making us “just a little lower than the angels” is an act of extreme rebellion and ingratitude to our loving Father who sent his Son, not to die for animals, but to die for sinful men and women, all of us.
Your religious beliefs, HisMan, are not incompatible with the fact that we are still part of the animal KINGDOM. Everything you wrote in that largest paragraph there might well be true, but we still aren’t plants or rocks. We can walk and run and chew like other animals. Again: acknowledging that we’re animals doesn’t mean I’m excusing or endorsing savage behavior.
And it’s one of the most frustrating things of life — this idea that you must be pro-choice to be an animal-lover, or an animal-killer to be pro-life. I find the animal-rights message and the pro-life message to be quite akin to each other: that of going to the wall to defend those who cannot defend themselves.
bmmg39 — I agree. It is completely consistent to champion the well-being of those unable to speak for themselves, be they human or otherwise.
I think the differences are important, too, because what is in the best interests of a cat, say… are not necessarily the same as what is in the best interests of a human being. This does not, however, invalidate the basic premise (as Terezia seems to think it does) that it is consistent to speak out for the best interests of all groups who cannot speak for themselves.
Will there be outrage over all the cats and dogs receiving abortions today? Hardly.
Posted by: Terezia at June 18, 2009 9:10 AM
It is absurd to equate aborting fetal kitties and puppies with aborting fetal humans, or imply that there should be equivalent outrage. Cats and dogs cannot refrain from sexual reproduction. They do not have the intellect to realize that there even is an overpopulation of cats and dogs, let alone realize that this causes starvation and sickness. They don’t possess the emotional complexity to care about how their instinctual behavior may affect their litter. They don’t possess the intellect or resources to do anything about it. So, as compassionate and responsible human beings, we try to create humane conditions for them by sterilization and sometimes abortion. Is it sad that this has to happen? Yes, very. Cat and dog behavior is behind our control, so we encourage humans to use their good judgement to adopt animals from shelters, get your pets spayed and neutered at a young age, donate to shelters, etc.
On the flip side, human beings are in control of their reproduction and have the capacity to understand consequences. We have the ability and resources to care for our children. Human abortion is not some desperate reaction to some mostly uncontrollable biological force (like cat and dog behavior), but a misguided and hurtful attempt to erase the evidence of a larger societal problem. We are an innovative and productive species capable of ensuring justice and rights for our kind, which should be our goal and why abortion is so hotly contested.
As others have said, the point of the article was not to assert that the cat killings and abortion are equivalent. The point is that outrage against injustice towards the innocent and helpless is always appropriate, yet it is discouraged regarding unborn humans. Cat and dog sterilization that may include abortion is not injustice, but our compassionate reaction to uncontrollable animal behavior.
This does not, however, invalidate the basic premise (as Terezia seems to think it does) that it is consistent to speak out for the best interests of all groups who cannot speak for themselves.
I never said that. And I do understand (and agree, generally) with the point that society should help those unable to help themselves. I get that.
But I never think it’s a good idea to compare the two causes, for the reasons I mentioned above. It’s like apples and oranges, and it does invite the criticisms I, and others, have levelled at it.
I’ve read plenty of well-thought-out pro-life arguments, from Jill and others. But never once have they compared animal rights to abortion.
How can anyone say we’re not animals?! I just do not understand!
We’re mammals, just like dogs, cats, horses, elephants and rats. We’re part of the primate species, just like gorillas and chimpanzees. We’re not even the only animal that is capable of making and using tools, or showing compassion or loving and caring for our young or mourning our dead. We have instinct just like other animals and often follow our instinct. The urge to mate is instinctual. It is instinct to search for food and water when you’re hungry and thirsty and to obtain it through any means necessary when you’re starving or dehydrated. Just because humans have capabilities and characteristics that might be considered to be uniquely human does not make us not animals, it just means that evolution has gone in our favor.
And if you still want to believe that we are better and above animals and you believe that protecting humans is more important than protecting animals consider this:
There are an estimated 3 million girls in Africa alone at risk of undergoing female genital mutilation every year. That’s over 8000 a day JUST IN AFRICA, not including the rest of the world.
HIV/AIDS kills over 8000 people a day. NOT JUST in Africa. NOT JUST homosexuals and NOT JUST adults.
There are over a billion people around the world who do not have access to clean water.
In communist North Korea, there are 23 million people living in oppression, with no access to the outside world. People are imprisoned often on suspicion alone and in the prisons the murder of newborn babies by guards and doctors is common as is random execusions of inmates.
In the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), it is estimated that at least 30,000 children have been part of the government forces and armed groups during the conflict that began in 1996.
At any one time there may be up to 100,000 unaccompanied children in Western Europe alone. As many as 20,000 unaccompanied minors lodge asylum applications every year in Europe, North America and Oceania.
I could go on, but it’s not really worth my time. All of these statistics concern humans that are ALREADY alive. I am at a loss why people are more concerned about saving the unborn fetuses than trying to put an end to the other horrible things that are happening to people (including the children and babies you’re so concerned about) around the world.
I am concerned about everything you just typed out, Talula. Including the unborn. That is the nice thing about compassion, it encompasses so much!!
Talula, this is a blog specifically about ending abortion. I go to other sites to look at other issues. Why is it that you assume that pro-lifers do not worry about any of these other causes? This simply isn’t where we discuss those issues. This is where we discuss pro-life issues.
It is a logical fallacy to assert that because someone worries about one issue they are unable to worry about or work towards remedying other issues.
Then why are we talking about cats Elisabeth? If this is only where we talk about ending abortion, why talk about cats? Many many things are discussed on this site. There are also discussions about religion. And I am talking about abortion. My position is with so many issues going on where people are being harmed, why are we so focussed on ending abortion?
Your question, Talula, is like this one: “There are so many issues going on in this world, so why should we be talking about Darfur?”
Or this one: “We have so many natural disasters happening all over the world. So why should we be so worried about child abuse?”
You’re making it into a zero-sum game. Causes are not mutually exclusive, Talula.
Talula,
“All of these statistics concern humans that are ALREADY alive.”
It is a scientific fact that human life begins at conception.
“My position is with so many issues going on where people are being harmed, why are we so focussed on ending abortion?”
Because abortion is one of those many issues where people are being harmed. Different people feel compelled towards different issues for various reasons: past experiences, personality, ability to contribute, etc. I personally do not feel compelled to become an active enviromentalist, but I’m thankful that other people do. It seems a bit dogmatic to imply that we shouldn’t focus on ending abortion because your focus is elsewhere. There are worldwide human rights violations, as you listed. Just because the issues are numerous doesn’t make any of them (including abortion) unworthy of advocacy.
Um, gee, maybe because it pointed out a hypocritical element of the post-modern mindset?
I’m beginning to feel a hint of troll here. Maybe we need to check IP addresses, mods?
Talula…you are so right on!!! Funny because “hisman” can preach the bible (overly long posts that nobody but the person who wrote it would want to read, mind you) and nobody blinks an eye. Someone commented on my use of exclamation points and assumed because of that, I am some young punk. Well using three exclamation points is not over-use and to be so anal and mention it, well that is just beyond lame. Then you (and I) come here with valid points and opinions and WHAM!!! Linda Mandell is another mouthy little troll, who happens to be 20 years my junior, but talks down to me like I am some sort of lesser being because we don’t see eye to eye. (Check out her myspace picture.) Well I am glad I don’t live in Colorado…and I am glad I don’t live for these message boards. Talula, I wish I could get in touch with you outside of here but besides posting my real name, I would not give any person information on this site.
I concur, Danielle. Tyler Weinman should have been aborted. I believe that’s the best darn thing I’ve read in any of these posts! You are one smart cookie and I like what you have to say. Thank God for people like you who bring rationale to message boards!
As for myself, I think it’s rotten kids like Tyler Weinman who made me get a tubal ligation. No chance one of those brats is ever coming out of me! I’ll stick to adopting cats, thanks!
Yes, lets abort children we THINK MIGHT be cat killers someday….