Landmark graphic abortion display ends at liberal Berkeley
I wrote Monday that the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform had finally succeeded in bringing its Genocide Awareness Project graphic abortion photos display to one of the most liberal college campuses in the US, Berkeley.
From the Daily Californian, today…
Pro-life activists at UC Berkeley concluded a 2-day display of graphic images of aborted fetuses on Upper Sproul Plaza Tuesday, but some said the demonstration challenged the limits of free speech permitted on the plaza….
But while walking through the plaza Tuesday, sophomore Devin Murphy said that the images took what Obama said out of context.
“These pictures are really disgusting and aggressive,” Murphy said. “His quotes are not related to abortion.”
Sophomore Imali Bandara said the prominence of the more than 10-foot-tall display was unsettling.
“This is just in your face,” she said. “It’s just imposing these images comparing abortion to the Holocaust and genocide, which I find really offensive.”
The blindness never fails to astound me.
Here’s a video news report from the Daily Californian…
Thoughts from CBR’s director, Gregg Cunningham:
This was arguably the most historically significant GAP we have conducted in the 11 years we have conducted the project.
Pro-abortion student protesters (organized by a feminist professor who brought her class out to shriek) screamed themselves hoarse the 1st day and had little voice left for the 2nd.
One of the most controversial aspects of our display was our use of… magazine covers which featured Mr. Obama’s picture…. with quotes from his most inspiring speeches on justice and compassion and equality. But we also added the abortion photos which proved how disingenuous are his remarks on the subjects of equity and mercy and faith….
I thought… the emphasis needed to be heavily weighted toward Obama Awareness. Adolph Hitler was responsible for far fewer killings than the number which Mr. Obama will eventually have caused. In the argot of genocide, he is the Hitler of our time.
View all of CBR’s Obama abortion signs here.
[Photo courtesy of the Daily Californian]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Obama as Hitler! How fresh and original! why it must be nearly ten seconds since the last time the far right made that comparison!
Maybe Jill’s obsessive stalking of Obama could be made into “Fatal Attraction II” The White House chef might find a bunny boiling in the kitchen.
Thank you. President Obama is for murder, violence, homosexuality and his Hate Speech today, “Women should be hit in the head sometimes,” is proof he is Anti-Women, too. Fox News reported today this lastest news clip regarding this paraphrased quote from him.
You’re blaming Obama for homosexuality? I think it was around long before he became President. [not that there’s anything wrong with that]
Uh…I’m uncomfortable calling him Hitler, too.
Vannah,
I don’t like people calling him Hitler either. It’s just wrong on so many levels.
#1: it’s bad for our country’s image to the world (Yes, that is important)
#2: Until I actually see Obama FORCE women into stirrups, I’m not going to blame him for abortions. Even if he voted AGAINST abortion, abortions would still be happening.
I’ll put the blame where it belongs: Satan and his lies and the abortive women that believe the lies. It started there, and will end when Jesus comes back to conquer Satan & throw Satan into hell for eternity.
Thank you, Marie. I agree that it’s the wrong image for our country and he’s not forcing anyone to have an abortion. Abortion is a symptom of a bad illness.
:)
Hey, I have attended a few March for Life days and one thing that the Berkley stuents are not connecting is the number of black babies that are aborted as opposed to white babies. Abortion has been called the genocide of the black race by more than a few black clergymen. Com on, the left should be used to calloused crude ads and media displays. They are all in favor of outspoken Hollywood displays, outspoken activists, outrageous displays of all sorts really. How about art that makes fun of Catholic images or Christian beliefs? Fine by them, free speech-right? I do believe they cringe when they see the aborted babies, because then they have to see that they ARE ACTUALLY BABIES! I think their screaming is absolutely appropriate. Abortion should make us all scream. I think it is nuts that a teacher forced her class to attend the display to scream and be disruptive. I am just so glad my kids went to a midwestern University that is better behaved. I know my kids have seen this display and for that I am very glad, and I think we all need to see how horrible and cruel and disgusting that abortion actually is. What a sad choice many people make each day.
While I don’t think equating Obama to Hitler is fair, I agree that Obama’s words spoken at Buchenwald can easily be applied to the unborn innocents. Obama is the most pro-abortion president we’ve ever had. This irony is lost on those who object to Obama’s quotes used in conjunction with the abortion images.
From Politico:
Obama lauded Merkel and the German people: “It’s not easy to look into the past in this way and acknowledge it and make something of it…a determination that they will stand guard against acts like this happening again.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23391.html
I agree, but this isn’t just the President’s responsibility. Collectively, Americans should be held responsible for the deaths of the unborn as long as it is legal.
The issue isn’t whether the Obama/Hitler makes you feel “comfortable” (unless your name is Oprah). The issue is where the facts support such a comparison, comfortable or not. Historians estimate that approximately one million Holocaust victims were children, many of them newborns. Mr. Obama three times led efforts to block consideration and or passage of legislation intended to mandate medical care for viable neonates who survived failed abortions. What meaningful moral distinction can be drawn between the babies Obama killed and the babies Hitler killed. It is intellectually dishonest to reject the Obama/Hitler in spite of an abundance of historical evidence supporting just such a comparison. And as for slavery, the government didn’t madate ownership of slaves either. Slavery was a matter of personal choice — unless you were black. Abolitionists were told that if they didn’t like slavery, their remedy was to not buy slaves. Opponents of abolition hated being called pro-slavery. They perferred “States Rights [to legalize the ownership of black people].” History is a stubborn thing. You can ignore and you can repeat it but you can’t make it go away.
Obama is a pawn. An empty suit. He couldn’t make a decision on when life begins; instead he says it is a question to which the answer is above his pay grade. It would have been wiser for our country if we had given him another fourty six years to meditate on “life” before we put him in charge of our country. Cause right now he seems so unsure and without conviction that he just says whatever he deems to be the most politically expedient thing to say. I feel sorry for the guy. He needs help in a big way or all hell is gonna break loose soon.
I don’t understand why so many of you are offended by the comparison of Obama to Hitler. The only person that deserves to be offended in that is Hitler.
Jac, actually the non-stop Hitler rhetoric is why you far right extremists make a lot of noise and get a lot of attention, but achieve nothing else.
That rhetoric offends a lot of descent, thinking people, which is why the far right is a tiny minority without any political power. Thank God.
Jac, 6:09a, you took the words right out of my mouth.
Abortion is America’s Hidden Holocaust. Until the world saw pictures of the bodies (if there were any bodies) at the Concentration camps, they did not believe or know what was going on in Germany. There are still Holocaust deniers in our day and age.
Abortion is MURDER of an innocent unborn child. These are not fake pictures. Do you believe you magically become a full term infant in those seconds before birth?
The pictures prove medical fact: the unborn baby is in fact HUMAN and NOT a piece of tissue.
Jacqueline and Jill,
Because hatred, anger and bitterness will always cloud accurate judgment and reason.
I don’t think it’s appropriate to call Obama the Hitler of our time. Abortion has been legal for over thirty years. He was a child when abortion-on-demand was legalized.
He certainly has expanded the borders of abortion access through rescinding the Mexico City Policy and such, and voting against the Born Alive Act is appalling, yes, but in the end, he is not the cause of abortion, nor its driving force, as Hitler was to the Nazis. Abortion has taken far more lives than the Holocaust – there’s no comparison in numbers – but Obama is not the root.
I love how the banner Keep Abortion Legal does nothing to address the photos of chopped up babies. Or even speak to the death of the 24 week old aborted baby, who is absolutely beautiful. How does the slogan Keep Abortion Legal speak to the 4,000 unborn that will die today and the 4,000 women who will be wounded?
It is so much easier to look the other way then to honestly debate and defend the killing.
Bystander, I’m sure you were out in full force when people were calling Bush Hitler, right?
Perhaps it is time Jill stopped nursing (pun intended) her 10-15 year old grudge against Obama.
Let’s review their resumes:
Obama:
Graduate of Harvard Law
IL state senator
US Senator for IL
POTUS
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Jill:
fired as a nurse for violating rules
Lost badly in run for IL state house
Columnist for Wing nut Daily, a birther wacko site
“D” list far right wing “celebrity”.
Calling Obama “Hitler” doesn’t even the playing field. It just makes you look pathetic, bitter and jealous.
Bashing Jill Stanek on her own blog makes you look pathetic, bitter and jealous, Bystander.
Irena Sendler did more and she was passed over for the Prize 2 years ago. She saved children from being killed in Concentration camps! What did Obama do? He reopened forcing tax payers to pay for UNNECESSARY OVERSEAS abortions!
Jill brought us knowledge that babies that SURVIVED abortion attempts were LEFT TO DIE in soiled utility rooms. These tiny babies weren’t even held until Jill took that little Downs baby and rocked him until he died.
No, Carla, while I admire Obama, I am not at all jealous of him. I just wish our President and our Country the best.
You might try cultivating some positive thoughts in your life, rather than reveling in hate all the time. It might make you a better person.
BTW have you raised the $100k it will take to get Sarah Palin to your WI pro life event?
Click on my name, Bystander. All the positive thoughts you want.
You make me LOL.
Bystander sweeetie, Obama won all of his pre-POTUS positions because he got the challangers thrown out on technicalities. The man was handed every position he’s ever held.
That says very little of his achievements, and much more about his shady character. Do you really want to draw attention to that?
Oh, and I’m still waiting on you to denounce the Bush=Hitlerisms from the last 8 years. Tick Tock.
Yes, Bystander, we’ve all noticed that Carla is a bastion of evil. Crows follow her around everywhere that she goes.
Truly.
Bystander,
You forgot BO’s honorary degree from Notre Dame!
You are hilarious.
What you don’t realize is that all of the awards, commendations and titles achieved by men are going to be tried by fire on Judgment Day like so much wood, hay and stubble.
That which is done for Christ and for the “least of these, His brethren” is going to earn rewards that will last for eternity.
If I ever get the privilege of meeting Jill in person this side of Glory, I will consider it a great honor to speak with someone who has passionately worked and sacrificed and endured affliction from the enemy for her stand for Life.
I wouldn’t cross the street to speak with BO, except to do my best John the Baptist impersonation calling him to repent.
Remember when he said he didn’t want his daughters stuck with a baby and by implication would help them kill his own grandchild? You know many loving grandparents would roll up there sleeves and help take care of their new family member until their daughter finished school, got on her feet, etc. Adoption would also have been a good alternative to murdering your own blood.
I think what he really meant, spoken as a true politician, is that he wouldn’t want himself or Michelle stuck with the responsibility of caring for another baby.
And think what the scandel might have done to his political career.
He is not a real man. He just poses as a man with a fake smile and a empty, hollow core.
And unless he repents, he will have to answer to God for his crimes against the unborn.
sorry, “an empty hollow core”
multitasking here trying to get some work done
Vannah 9:44 ROTFLMBO!
Bystander, your post also made me lol. Seriously, YOU of all people, are saying this?
“You might try cultivating some positive thoughts in your life, rather than reveling in hate all the time. It might make you a better person.”
And to CARLA Of all people. LOL!
You’re a joke!
Oh no, poor little Berkeley kids found something agressive and offensive. Well, guess what, guys? I found something at school aggressive and offensive AT LEAST once a week when I was in college.
I do agree that the Obama/Hitler comparison is pointlessly inflamatory, a bad idea, and also not very original. But Imali! Why do you have such a problem seeing pictures of “women’s health care”?
Bystander wrote:
Perhaps it is time Jill stopped nursing (pun intended) her 10-15 year old grudge against Obama.
Have you seriously given up all pretense of logic, here? This is lunacy! You stroll by, in full “snark mode”, and say that Jill’s complaints against Obama are due not to Obama’s blatantly evil acts and positions, but to some “personal grudge”. What, do you suppose he kicked Jill’s dog, or slashed her tires, or something? Have some sense! (At least *read* what she writes, rather than skim and cherry-pick!)
Let’s review their resumes:
Okay… here’s a chance to redeem yourself, and prove that you know how to use logic. Please explain, in clear language, why resumes (even if you hadn’t laughably distorted both of them with gaping omissions) are in any way relevant to anything… even to YOUR point. Because right now, it reads like, “No one can criticize my crimes as an elected official; why, don’t you know that I go to Church at least once every 6 months, I gave to Jerry’s Kids, and I even pat little birdies on the head?” (Look up the fallacy known as “Red Herring”, when you get a free moment.)
Just to illustrate the point:
Jill:
fired as a nurse for violating rules [Care to mention what “rule?” It wouldn’t have anything to do with blowing the whistle on infanticide, would it?)
Lost badly in run for IL state house [Very relevant, I’m sure. (??) I’m sure you’re capable of finding (through 5 minutes of internet study, or the like) the names of at least 10 people with whom YOU agree, who weren’t elected to a given office… right? If you have difficulty, we’ll be glad to help you.]
Columnist for Wing nut Daily, a birther wacko site [ :) Such objectivity from Jill’s foes!]
“D” list far right wing “celebrity”. [Sorry… that “snap” you heard was my sarcasm response machinery overloading, in a vain attempt to put into words the stunning irrelevance of that piece of persiflage.]
Calling Obama “Hitler” doesn’t even the playing field. It just makes you look pathetic, bitter and jealous.
Thank you for your opinion, I’m sure. But as many contributors mentioned earlier: the comparison of Obama to Hitler is not merely hysterical and inflammatory rhetoric, as you suggest; there are true, serious and concrete similarities between these two proponents of the Culture of Death.
It is good that this story is bringing some pseudo-liberals to this website. Hopefully, they will click around and explore for themselves, and work to figure out what their core values are, versus following lock-step with their professors, and versus spouting the trained knee-jerk responses these college kids are trained to give. Maybe they will click over to Maafa 21, and explore the eugenics philosophy of PP founder and KKK supporter Margaret Sanger, and have a differnt thought in mind the next time they are directed to shout down opponents with unsubstantiated “racism” charges. http://maafa21.com/
Maybe they will run into info revealing that, in various spots across the globe, and in the U.S., people figure out whether their “blob of flesh” is male or female, then abort because it is female – and think of that before the next time their trainer gives the signal to shout “sexism.”
http://www.unfpa.org/gender/case_studies.htm
Maybe they will read about how PP consistently defies state laws regarding reporting of ongoing statutory rape of teenage girls, and think about the Lila Rose project as they help plan the next “Take Back The Night” project.
http://liveaction.org/index.php/projects/monalisa
Welcome, Berkeley! Happy reading! Just don’t let your professors know!!! They cannot stand it when you think for yourself! And get ready! If you start to talk back, answering power with truth, here is what you will get (guaranteed): 1. name-calling, 2. change-the-topic. Good luck to ya!
They were standing right in front of pictures of mutilated babies. If their little signs had said ‘keep this legal’, I wonder what response THEY would have gotten? And Bystander:”You might try cultivating some positive thoughts in your life, rather than reveling in hate all the time. It might make you a better person.” Were you looking in a mirror when you typed that? LOL…what a PARROT for the ‘Far Left’ you are! :D
I think people forget that Hitler only ever actually killed 2 people: Eva Braun and himself.
And, Marie, you’re forgetting: the dead in this Holocaust ARE being forced into the clinics. Don’t forget: Jews were seen as “just a mass of tissue,” as well. And good, law-abiding citizens were encouraged to turn them over. They were betrayed by their neighbors and friends just as these babies are being betrayed by their mothers. The reason that we don’t see barbed wire around abortion clinics is because THE VICTIMS ARE TOO HELPLESS TO FIGHT!
Don’t forget: most people didn’t BELIEVE in the Holocaust until they SAW it.
Comparing Obama to Hitler sounds like political extremism and insanity only because you left-wingers have been comparing every politician you don’t like to Hitler practically since his death. I, also, had a great deal of trouble at first with the abortion=Holocaust “rhetoric” (as I believed it was). I also refused to accept the Obama=Hitler line at first.
Actually, at this point, I still really can’t fully accept it. Because Hitler was REALLY smart. Hitler RALLIED his country and practically ERADICATED unemployment. Many of our current advertising strategies come right from those used by Hitler. He commissioned the VW Bug as the people’s car. His brainwashing of the German people was effective in an unprecedented way. We study his speeches STILL to learn how to evoke support.
Obama, meanwhile, is a pawn in the hands of the abortion industry. If you can’t see this, you need to LOOK HARDER.
So maybe the Obama/Hitler comparison isn’t apt, but only because he’s not as good at it as Hitler was. He is, however, our country’s elected official who supports and promotes mass killings of living humans simply for the fact that they’re considered “unwanted.”
Paladin, awesome post.
Bystander,
Still laffin! Ok. You made my day. So glad you are here.
The issue isn’t whether the Obama/Hitler makes you feel “comfortable” (unless your name is Oprah). The issue is where the facts support such a comparison, comfortable or not. Historians estimate that approximately one million Holocaust victims were children, many of them newborns
Did you know that German soldiers would throw Jewish babies up in the air and try to catch them on their bayonets? And any Jewish (or Gypsy, or other “subhuman”) woman who was visibly pregnant wasimmediately “eliminated. Horrible.
It IS possible, you know, to see some similarities between Nazi political rhetoric, pro-slavery rhetoric, and abortion without “equating” Obama with Hitler (or the Confederate States of America). I don’t think Obama is the Antichrist, Hitler, or whatever. I just think that he’s not doing enough learning from history here and as such is repeating some of the mistakes of the past. He’s a guy I disagree with regularly about almost everything (if not everything) but that doesn’t make me a “wingnut”. He’s a rather confused individual on some things, such as abortion.
I should clarify, when I say “you left-wingers” I’m not talking to Marie. I realized upon re-reading that I should have simply left out the word “you”.
Army_wife,
Yes… and no. I wouldn’t say BHO is honestly confused about the humanity of the unborn. I believe that he has been too inundated with the truth to miss it. He just has made the decision that something else is more important to him (I’d venture a guess it’s power/money). Now, I don’t think he’s the devious mind that Hitler was, but I do believe that he’s working with devious minds. I do believe that he’s partly responsible for every baby that dies because of policies he votes for. I don’t believe that he’s going, “First America, next THE WORLD!”, but I do believe that he is motivated by selfish desires, aware of the humanity of preborn humans, and attempting to lead our country into immorality with his abortion policies.
“And, Marie, you’re forgetting: the dead in this Holocaust ARE being forced into the clinics. Don’t forget: Jews were seen as “just a mass of tissue,” as well. And good, law-abiding citizens were encouraged to turn them over. They were betrayed by their neighbors and friends just as these babies are being betrayed by their mothers. The reason that we don’t see barbed wire around abortion clinics is because THE VICTIMS ARE TOO HELPLESS TO FIGHT!”
MaryRose, I do not disagree with you here. My issue is with comparing Obama to Hitler. Yes, the vicitms are all innocent on both sides, but with Hitler, he FORCED the people into an oven, and I really don’t see Obama doing this. Yes, he keeps the oven open for any who would want to walk inside of it, being their OWN CHOICE, but he doesn’t force them in.
I think we just need to take a step back, and no matter how hard it is, try to remember who’s decision it is to kill these babies. And, until I hear a woman say that she killed her baby because Obama MADE her do it, the Obama/Hitler analogy will continue to disgust me.
I have never heard that Hitler forced people into ovens. He let his czars do it for him.
Obama supports and promotes abortion. Even so far as to vote against infants born alive after abortion receiving care. He will go down in history as the most pro abortion president in history. He is beholden to Planned Parenthood. It’s pay back time.
Listen, I’m not saying that Obama made women abort. I’m saying that he has taken up abortion as his cause. His troops are abortionists and proabort groups like NARAL and NOW. His incinerators are… well, incinerators, actually. His guns are the syringes used to inject mother and baby.
Children were told they were going to shower. They were gassed. They walked into gas chambers willingly. Actually, adults did, too, again, thinking they were getting a shower.
Abortion would be more like the Holocaust if the victims of the Holocaust had been gassed by their friends and neighbors, rather than a military force. How insidious, then, that in the horrible tragedy of abortion, the citizens are actually doing the dirty work?
There is nothing to suggest that PBHO has forced or coerced anyone into having an abortion. He just works to keep the facilities operating with as few regulations as possible. Does this make him less liable than Hitler?
The babies do not have that choice, to walk in or out of the oven. By allowing mothers to choose to put their babies “in the oven” he is indeed allowing those babies to be forced to die.
And Obama doesn’t even stop with babies. He’s trying to kill off elderly people and the disabled too.
Did you hear what he told that woman who asked if health care plan would help her mother? He said they’d probably tell her to just “take the pill” (because he deemed it unnecessary to help her).
Isn’t that the same as ‘throwing people in the oven’ without their consent?
The victims just happen to be different groups of people and the methods of killing happen to be different methods.
Children were told they were going to shower. They were gassed. They walked into gas chambers willingly. Actually, adults did, too, again, thinking they were getting a shower.
That is an excellent point.
Do try to recall, people, that the Loony Left used to call Bush Hitler all the time.
The problem with calling anyone Hitler is that you immediately lose the debate, even if there might be some reason to state the comparison. You lose the debate, because people immediately switch off.
Obama is a worryingly pro-abortion President. He is practically worshipped by half your nation and quite a lot of the rest of the world. This is in itself pretty disturbing, but no-one is going to be persuaded by Hitler comparisons.
Having said that, the pictures up are still good and I hope it has caused some people to become pro-life.
The people with their pro-choice sign are in favour of the little babies on those pictures being hacked to death. Doesn’t say much for them.
Louise,
While I agree that people switch off when you compare Obama to Hitler, I also feel that it’s important to analyze the information given and accept the very real parallels.
Know your audience, though. If you’re talking to a bunch of pro-lifers, I don’t see why you can’t make the comparison, assuming that you bring a realistic debate to the forum.
And when the Obama-Hitler correlation comes up, it’s perfectly acceptable to point out that this comparison actually holds some merit.
I realize that there are whack-jobs out there making these claims in such a way that completely does lose the argument. That doesn’t mean that making the comparison automatically makes us whack-jobs. If you can back up your arguments, which we can if we do the research, then you can make the debate an intelligent one rather than mud flinging.
I agree that we need to be careful of our audience and our presentation, but sometimes the truth needs to be spoken.
“Children were told they were going to shower. They were gassed. They walked into gas chambers willingly. Actually, adults did, too, again, thinking they were getting a shower.”
That’s not a fair comparison at all. The Jews walked in as innocent people and their lives were taken. Women walking into an abortion clinic are NOT “innocently” PAYING to have their innocent child exterminated.
HUGE difference.
No, not innocent. Deceived. Preyed upon. Lied to. Forced. Coerced.
But is choice truly choice when a lack of knowledge and access gives one no choice?
-The Raving Theist
Thanks MaryRose 6:48,for clarifying when it is proper to compare someone to Hitler. I had consulted Emily Post but couldn’t find an answer.
Carla,
Talkin’ about the Obama/Hitler comparison here…
Marie,
Ok. ::shrugs::
B.S.’er
Godwin’s Law?!?!?
Who died and made him sheriff of the kingdom?
Who the hell might Mike Godwin be when he is at home and who appointed him abitrary arbiter of what is or is not acceptable language when discussing issues of the day?
The people who would autocratically attempt to enforce this infringement of freedom of expression are the same ones who cannot refute comparisons to the national socialists of Hitlers day and the progressive/liberal/humanists of our own time.
So these intellectual midgets response is to supress or ignore speech they do not like or cannot refute.
The national socialist (Nazis) were liberals.
Hitler did not create the culture that produced the holocaust. Adolph just built upon the utilitarian altar that had already been erected by the liberal secular and sectarian humanists.
B.O. and his progressive/liberal/humanists are attempting to do the same thing today.
yor bro ken
Let’s get history straight. Hitler was a socialist, a left winger. When it came to mass murder he was a rank amateur next to soviet Lefty Josef Stalin, who slaughtered millions of his countrymen or banished them to Siberia, i.e. slave labor camps, i.e. death camps. Just like Hitler only a little more discreet. Stalin was also anti-semitic. He also persecuted ethnic, racial, and religious groups on a whim.
Next to Chinese Lefty Mao Tse-tung, who is admired by Obama staffer Anita Dunn who calls him a “political philosopher”, Stalin was an amateur. Mao killed up to 77 million of his own countrymen. He also had “re-education” and slave labor camps.
So when we refer to tyrants who are racist, anti-semitic, and mass murderers, keep in mind that lefty Hitler didn’t hold a candle to lefties Joe Stalin and Mao Tse-tung.
Mary,
Thank you! I hate to say that Hitler gets a bad rap, but he does seem to be the most hated historical figure ever, and honestly, he was horribly immoral, but he really wasn’t extreme enough that we couldn’t get sucked into it again.
Marie,
How is Carla’s response at all invalid? Furthermore, the individuals who DIE in this Holocaust are even more innocent than those who died in concentration camps. And they are just as trusting. But the women who walk into abortion clinics frequently do believe the rhetoric. Do you think that every man, woman, and child who willingly walked into gas chambers was better than every woman who walks into an abortion clinic?
Abortion clinics and pro-aborts frequently spout outright lies. They dehumanize our children for their profit. They try to convince us that our babies are just parts of our bodies. They use scare tactics to manipulate us. They play upon emotionally unstable women’s feelings in order to create in the woman a detachment from her situation. They use innocuous terms like, “gentle suction” to remove the brutal reality of the situation. They make up “facts” about the development of the human fetus in terms of what they feel and when. They tell us that babies with Down’s are going to live unfulfilled and unhappy lives. Children with DOWN’S, for goodness sake!
You don’t think that there’s some validity in comparing those lies, those extreme efforts to justify what they’re doing, with the Nazis calling gas chambers “showers”?
Bystander,
Glad you’re in good spirits as usual. Always happy to help in clarifying that yes, it’s appropriate to compare an individual to Hitler when an individual is comparable to Hitler. :)
Why does everyone insist on comparing abortion to the holocaust, and any influential supporters of it to Hitler? Infanticide is a much better comparison. Try the Roman Empire.
No, MaryRose I don’t. One has to do with not trusting God, and doing things “our way” and believing the lies of Satan, and one does not.
Marie, which one does/did not have to do with believing the lies of Satan? I’m not sure I understand your point.
It’s not accurate to call Hitler a liberal. He wasn’t a conservative, either. He was a fundamentalist, which is an extremist. But he didn’t found anything on a liberal, humanist, or progressive stage. He, in fact, blamed liberals for the downfall of Germany, though he blamed Jews more.
Again, he wasn’t a conservative, but he was a fundamentalist. There’s a profound difference. Neither liberals nor conservatives stand with Hitler- fundamentalists do.
But it’s not historically accurate to say that he was a liberal. He hated liberals. He hated anyone who wasn’t a fundamentalist.
Again, he [Hitler] wasn’t a conservative, but he was a fundamentalist. There’s a profound difference. Neither liberals nor conservatives stand with Hitler- fundamentalists do.
But it’s not historically accurate to say that he (Hitler) was a liberal. He hated liberals. He hated anyone who wasn’t a fundamentalist.
Posted by: Vannah at October 30, 2009 9:32 AM
—————————————————
Vannah,
Please give us definitions of the following:
1. fundamenatlist
2. conservative
3. socialist
4. liberal
5. extremist
I am sure Mary can point you in the right direction. She is very well read and does not seem to allow her preferences to cloud her judgement.
yor bro ken
What do you mean by Fundamentalist? Are you trying to imply that Hitler was a Christian?
Bethany
I don’t know what Hitler’s religion was. I’m not calling you Hitler- I know that a lot of Christians opposed what he did from the start and I’m well aware that he tried to get Catholics thrown into the concentration camps as well as Jews and that the Catholics were big on anti-Nazi work. So I’m not saying fundamentalist meaning a Christian person.
Fundamentalism is dictated by a strong desire to “go back to the good days,” as in, return an entire group of people to when they were incredibly powerful. To accomplish this end, they enforce strict this and strict that. They heavily suppress women’s involvement in society because they believe that women represent the utmost evil, animal desire, and therefore women are disenfranchised. Fundamentalism has many degrees and, while fundamentalism often involves religion, there’s a difference between someone who believes in Christianity (just as example religion) and someone who uses Christianity to oppress people and control them.
Basically, a fundamentalist believes in adherence to a strict set of ideals. That is not conservatism. Conservatism is closer to middle ground and so is liberalism. Fundamentalism or any other type of extreme behavior/belief can be found in liberals, too. I think that extreme liberalism includes communism- that’s dangerous, as is something like what Hitler did.
So I don’t think that you’re a fundamentalist or that Christians are evil, Bethany. My best friend is a conservative Christian and she’s nothing like an evil control freak.
It’s just that both conservatives and liberals can become extremists if we don’t watch out- anyone, even outside of politics, can become extreme.
But I don’t think that people here are fundamentalists or communists or any other type of extreme.
:)
I participated in this event and I can tell you that the only hatred displayed came from some of the students who opposed us. We were all committed to Christ like and graceful speech in sharing the truth about abortion and that our President is the most pro-abortion president in our history. Most of the students I spoke with were unaware of this.
I place most of the blame for the abortion holocaust where it belongs. God empowered the Christian church to overcome the works of darkness. It has largely failed on the issue of abortion due to timid or cowardly pastors and their self absorbed congregations.
Don’t think for a moment that display didn’t open many eyes.
Most people don’t say anything. That display absolutely affected people. Far from lowering their opinion of pro-lifers, it served to lower their opinion of their fellow students who defended the grisly practice. Very few people are rabidly pro-abortion. That is why they are so desperate to keep people from seeing the truth. They know these images are extremely persuasive.
Seeing is believing
Bystander sweeetie, Obama won all of his pre-POTUS positions because he got the challangers thrown out on technicalities. The man was handed every position he’s ever held.
That says very little of his achievements, and much more about his shady character. Do you really want to draw attention to that?
Posted by: Lauren at October 29, 2009 9:15 AM
The only Editor of the Harvard Law Review ever that published nothing. He taught grievance politics/law at the U of Chicago.
Positions absolutely handed to him.
Most privileged “victim” ever.
No accomplishments, just the appearance of accomplishment.
What little actual accomplishment he actually has is sealed.
He doesn’t want anyone to know what his grades were or what he was doing at college. No one else is hiding their records.
“I place most of the blame for the abortion holocaust where it belongs. God empowered the Christian church to overcome the works of darkness. It has largely failed on the issue of abortion due to timid or cowardly pastors and their self absorbed congregations.”
Posted by: Bud at October 30, 2009 1:51 PM
Great post, Bud, and thank you for participating in that even and remaining Christ-like, even when I’m sure it was very difficult!
Your post brought to my mind the following verse:
Ephesians 6:12 (New American Standard Bible)
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
I believe that this struggle pertains not only to those who promote abortion, but also those who particpate in them. Both are falling into the hands of the deceptions of the spiritual forces of wickedness.
and there is hope…
1 John 5:3-4 (New American Standard Bible)
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.
“Marie, which one does/did not have to do with believing the lies of Satan? I’m not sure I understand your point.”
Posted by: bethany at October 30, 2009 9:06 AM
Sorry, Bethany. It made sense in my mind, but re-reading it, I understand the confusion!
Here:
Victims of the Holocaust (Jews) did not sin. They were killed because of someone else’s sin. The Jews didn’t fall for the lies of Satan. They were the aftermath of someone else falling for the lies of Satan. They were being held in death camps. I’m sure they thought “something was up” when they were brought in groups, told to strip naked and sent to take a “shower”.
Women who took themselves in to an abortion clinic to murder their babies did sin. Their babies were killed because of their sin. They fell for the lies of Satan, just as Hitler and his cronies did.
I hope that cleared it up a bit, but probably not.
You said,
“The babies do not have that choice, to walk in or out of the oven. By allowing mothers to choose to put their babies “in the oven” he is indeed allowing those babies to be forced to die.”
Are you equating the abortive mothers to Hitler as well?
Marie,
Actually, it would be more accurate to compare the mothers to the Nazis themselves, who also fell for Satan’s lies. That would be my comparison, really. Mothers and abortionists with Nazis and Nazi sympathizers. Hitler with Obama. Babies with victims of the Holocaust.
MaryRose,
But Hitler deemed the Jews unwanted and wanted them exterminated.
Abortive women are the ones who deem their babies unwanted. Not Obama.
Yes, the babies are still the victims of the “holocaust”, but wouldn’t that make Obama and abortionists the Nazis and Nazi sympathizers and the abortive mothers Hitler?
No, Marie. Abortive women are TOLD that their babies are unwanted. They’re fed the lie that their babies are going to ruin their futures/have unhappy lives/etc. They feed into these lies, but they are definitely being overwhelmingly manipulated.
The Nazis themselves and their sympathizers were the ones to target individuals. It was Hitler’s mantra, but they believed it.
MaryRose,
So what is the difference then, between the women who have “unwanted children” and put them up for adoption, and the women who have “unwanted children” and abort them instead? Both have been fed the same “lies”, but one group aborted and one didn’t.
And another thing: Abortion was institued long before Obama was even heard of. Where does Margaret Sanger fit in?
Marie,
I’m not saying Obama is the ultimate Hitler comparison. I’m saying that it’s fair in many ways to compare the two. They fill similar roles. But you’re right; Margaret Sanger might be a better Hitler comparison.
I’m just pointing out that there are, in fact, fair comparisons between the two, both in their roles in the two genocides and in their propaganda tactics.
And as for the two groups of women, well, we’re talking essentially about citizens who became Nazis and Nazi sympathizers vs. citizens who fought the Nazi agenda. The difference is, one group bought into the lies and one didn’t.
Anyway, my point wasn’t to say Hitler=Obama so much as that the Hitler/Obama comparison has some strong arguments in its favor and it is, in fact, something that we need to be aware of.
There are plenty of differences, I’ll give you that. That doesn’t mean the comparison can’t be made as long as it’s appropriately backed up. It doesn’t mean that bringing up the similarities has to be done in such a way that your listeners close their ears entirely.
I don’t know, MaryRose, but I do appreciate this discussion.
I guess I just see the Holocaust (of the Jews) beginning by Hitler convincing the people of Germany that all of their financial woes were of the fault of the Jews. If Hitler never existed, I don’t believe there would have been a Holocaust.
If all women believed that their babies were wanted (by someone), (and that they were actually babies!) abortion wouldn’t exist. If Obama didn’t exist, abortion still would exist until the hearts and minds of the women making that decision changed.
By going through each and every one of the photos above (and I just did it about an hour ago…It was very, very difficult for me to do!) I see blindness in Obama. I pray that one day the light goes on and he can apply each one of his comments to the unborn. I’m sure that display opened the eyes of the many who saw it and didn’t know. I don’t see how it couldn’t, unless they were suffering from the same mental block Obama has.
With Hitler, it was about hatred and revenge. I don’t think Obama’s abortion stance has anything to do with that, I really don’t. So I cannot equate the two at all.
Thank you so much for discussing this with me. I see your point as well about comparing the two, but I just don’t agree with it.
Okay, I can see your argument for sure. I guess I see Obama as being far less convicted than Hitler, more of a pawn for sure. I worry with Obama because I feel like he has shown that he doesn’t hesitate to make bad decisions for others if he feels like he gets enough out of it personally.
But I guess my biggest argument is that it is important to recognize the similarities so that you can avoid falling into the same traps. Obama’s campaigning closely mirrored much of Hitler’s propaganda. And he will keep babies as the enemy, the way that Hitler made the Jews into the enemy. Yes, the big difference defining the two is that Obama fell into a role that was prepared whereas Hitler created it. I don’t think Obama’s as malicious, but I think he’s equally dangerous, if not more so, if we begin to believe that his propaganda isn’t a threat.
I make the arguments that I do primarily because I feel like we have to be ever guarded. When we see the similarities, we should recognize and be wary of them. Otherwise we are likely to repeat history.
Yes, this genocide is already in progress and Obama is simply the current face of the march. But he is a dangerous one, most especially because of his campaign. We cannot put our hope in a man, and those who pull the strings currently would have us put all of our hope and trust in Obama. We mustn’t forget that our Hope is in the Lord.
I know that sometimes I get off track and begin to sound like I’m saying that Obama is THE face of the new Nazi regime. I worry that he may become so if we don’t recognize the ploys, though, so I worry about what happens when we don’t openly accept that otherwise good people were also caught up in and believed the Nazi campaigns. We cannot think ourselves greater than those who fell for lies in the past. We cannot think that what Hitler, Germany, and the Nazis did was so beyond our current situation.
Anyway, thanks for letting me make the argument in such a way that we were able to refrain from unnecessary and non-progressive tactics (ad hominem, strawman arguments, etc). It was definitely a pleasure to stretch my debate muscles :)