New Stanek WND column, “Toys R Us linked to ‘not rape-rape’ Whoopi”
I didn’t know the potato heads at Toys R Us were featuring Whoopi Goldberg on the cover of their 2009 “Differently-Abled Kids” catalog and ad campaign until she defended pedophile rapist/sodomist Roman Polanski on The View last week, after which bloggers quickly took note of the paradox.
I could have told Toys R Us Goldberg was a poor fit, certainly not the “child advocate” it boasted her to be in a press release. She’s had multiple abortions – between 4 and 7, depending on the account. Serial-killing one’s own children is about as child-unfriendly as one can be.
In early stand-up routines and in the book The Choices We Made: 25 Women and Men Speak Out About Abortion, Goldberg stated her first abortion was self-inflicted in a park at age 14, after being impregnated at 13.
That one happened because, “Whoopi led a bohemian lifestyle… and engaged in promiscuous activities,” according to biographer Ellesse Chow.
Which brings us to Polanski. Most now know that in 1977 the famous film director at age 43 primed a 13-year-old with drugs and alcohol before raping and sodomizing her, after which he fled the country to escape prosecution….
There is no explanation for Goldberg’s shocking statements in Polanski’s defense except to recall Goldberg herself had consensual sex at age 13, which apparently was only the beginning. She bragged on The View in 2008 she had gone on to nail “about 50” lovers in her lifetime….
Continue reading my column today, “Toys R Us linked to ‘not rape-rape’ Whoopi,” at WorldNetDaily.com.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Somehow Whoopi has become a symbol for fun, happy and child-loving. I don’t know how that happened.
Let us not forget that 92% of women given the diagnosis of Downs abort their baby!!! This is a crime of the highest degree.
If you have any doubt about ALL the abilities of someone with Downs please watch the PBS show Body & Soul: Diana & Kathy which premiered Thursday, October 1, 2009.
From the PBS website:
The film Body & Soul: Diana & Kathy chronicles the lives of two of the country’s most remarkable advocates for people with disabilities. Diana Braun, who has Down syndrome, and Kathy Conour, who has cerebral palsy, met three decades ago and vowed to fight to live independent lives. Fearful of being shut away in a nursing home or forced into a state-run institution, Diana and Kathy broke the rules, escaped the system, and modeled a grand experiment in independent living.
Please check the pbs website for a repeat of this wonderful show.
“She’s had multiple abortions – between 4 and 7, depending on the account. Serial-killing one’s own children is about as child-unfriendly as one can be.”
While I certainly do not condone abortion,and I am not a fan of Whoppi, there is an obvious lack of understanding here of post abortion issues by your comments. Many women have had multiple abortions and to be honest, it made me cringe when I thought of those who may be stepping forward for healing reading this. Certainly enough to have them run in the other direction forever.
We do not know what happened with Whoppi that caused her to have multiple abortions. Was it wrong, of course! But it began when she was 13!!!! We need to pray for her conversion. It is statements like this that stop women from coming forward for healing.
If you cannot understand how someone can do something like that, thank God. It is a gift and a grace.
God is there to forgive and heal. It does not matter if someone has had 1 or 20 abortions, because healing is about who He is and what He has done not about us and what we have done. He is there. He is the only one that knows why that happened and the only one to judge her culpability.
while she holds a certain responsibility, as does every person involved in abortion, the extent is known only to God.
We have to hold people accountable for their actions (and their crimes, which killing an unborn child is). Would you say the same thing about a man who had raped between 4 and 7 women? Or a mother or father who admitted to killing 4 to 7 of their born children? Or someone who admitted robbing 4 to 7 banks?
How about Roman Polanski who is accused of raping a 13 year old girl? We need to have love and compassion in our hearts for wrongdoers, even criminal wrongdoers, but we must still hold them accountable, don’t you agree?
Besides, Whoopi Goldberg did not just kill many of her kids. She also has become a militant advocate for unlimited killing of unborn children.
She is one of those “pro-choice” Hollywood people who aggressively push abortion violence. She should be held accountable for that too.
Bottom line, whenever she comes on television I turn the channel.
Theresa,
I thought about your point when composing the column. The problem is Goldberg has not repented. She has not converted. She has not reflected back and determined her upbringing and youthful lifestyle were harmful. She is now clearly attempting to pass her wharped sense of sexual boundaries on to the public.
Goldberg is potentially hurting little girls even today by advocating child sex and loosening the hands of justice from acknowledged child rapists. She needs to be severely pushed back on this. If she’s come this far in life without changing her views, soft-soaping isn’t going to help. She’s a danger to a moral society.
I am not saying she does not hold some accountability. Of course she does. Believe me she is paying whether she knows it or not, sooner or later. I do not think you could find a repentant post abortion person, woman or man who does not take accountability.
I am saying, judging without mercy is not the answer. Extending mercy does not mean people do not take accountability. In fact, extending mercy can be the exact thing someone NEEDS to take accountability.
Maybe without it, they are not even capable of looking at how horrific it is.
We are called to judge the action, not the person.
This is a woman who doesn’t consider drugging and sodomizing a 13y/o girl “rape-rape”? I wonder how Whoopi and the rest of these feminists would react if Clarence Thomas, (who Whoopi doesn’t consider black)had committed this crime instead of Polanski. What if this had been Whoopi’s daughter or granddaughter? Would this give her a different perspective?
Whoopi aborted herself in a park when she was 14y/o? Come on, could that be a bit of a stretch? Why would you go to the park? Exactly how did she do this and not cause permanent injury or even death? Not even her fertility was affected.
People are so anxious to jump all over these accounts as “proof” of the “need” to legalize abortion that they don’t give them any serious analysis.
Former poster Heather brought up a great point about these “self induced” abortions. They must not be all that dangerous and difficult if these young girls can perform them with no medical consequences.
She always seems off of her rocker. RJ
Maybe Whoppi does not call the rape of the 13 yo a rape because if she did, she would have to look at her own experience…who knows what is going on in her own head.
All I know is the condemnation of the person versus the act does no one any good. Is abortion wrong, yes, ALWAYS. There is never an ok abortion, but judging this way has a ripple effect to others who truly may be seeking repentance, and, yes, even Whoppi is a child of God, who He loves and is seeking, no matter where or what she is doing now.
Theresa,
It’s not merciless to call murder what it is. Before someone can ask for mercy, they must first recognize that they are in need of it. If Whoopi were repentant, you’d be hard-pressed to find Jill or any pro-lifer holding any of her abortions against her. But she’s not only unrepentant, she’s perpetuating her own crimes and attempting to destroy other women in the process. How exactly does denying the gravity of her actions promote recovery in her or anyone?
On another note, I’m disturbed to see her smiling beside a child with down’s syndrome, knowing how heartily she supports the murder of such children.
Theresa has a compassionate heart and understands how Post Abortive women feel as I do. I have had an abortion. I WAS WRONG in WHAT I DID. No one has to tell me, I know… I have spoken for the State Legislators, in Churches, Women’s organizations and one on one to Post Abortive women.
Whoppi is a child of God and he loves her as much as any one else. The bible tells us “JUDGE NOT LESS YE BE JUDGE”. I have been guilty of judging othes, as we all have, but, let’s take the speck out of our own eyes” before judging others..
Post Abortive women, no matter how many abortions you have had… There is “Hope and Healing” through Jesus Christ. I know.
Theresa, Paula: You’re incorrectly applying the “judging” passage. Whoopi Goldberg is a menace to society. She is pedaling her promotion of pedophilia to a wide audience. Call me the bad cop on this.
Jill,
I won’t debate with you on Whoppi Goldberg. God is her Judge.. I only care abuot the many women out there who have read your comment on Serial Killing and need healing.
Have a blessed day.
Paula
Paula, God is Goldberg’s judge on whether she’ll get into heaven or not. That’s what “Judge not lest ye be judged” means. It means we cannot proclaim another’s eternal “sentence.”
We on earth are, of course, called to judge others’ actions. The very “Take the speck out of your own eye” passage you quoted is saying this is acceptable, after making sure your own conscience is clear.
I understand your concern for post-abortive mothers. Those who have repented understand what they have done and have… repented. They have accepted God’s gift of forgiveness. Those who have not need to brought to the place of repentance if it doesn’t well up from within themselves. We do them no favors by sugar-coating or hiding the truth. In fact, we invite them to kill again by going that route.
While I understand that Theresa wants to extend compassion, as I do also, to all woman who have “bought the lie” that abortion is solution, there is a bit more to this story. The lives of children with Down syndrome are being removed at a rate of at least 90% in America, when woman are vien the diagnosis while pregnant. There are new tests that are currently being developed that will tell woman earlier in their pregnancy, with a simple blood draw, if the child they are carrying happens to have Ds. This is expected to increase the rate. It has never been hidden that Down syndrome is considered the “bad thing that can happen” in pregnancy.
Please read this story to know the history of abortion of individuals who happen to have Down syndrome. http://idscforlife.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/in-honor-of-the-lives-that-have-been-taken-we-remember/
As a mother of a child who happens to have Down syndrome, I am not all that thrilled to have this picture of Whoopie, advocating for my child. Yes, I want to show compassion for women who choose abortion, however, showing compassion, and allowing one to advocate for those she advocated death for is simply not right. We fight hard every single day to help others to see that our children have dignity in the womb and in the room!! To have a woman in an ad, advocating for our children, the very children that we are advocating for their lives and the lives of their peers, who are getting killed at a rate that is alarming, is truly an in your face moment.
She has done her advocating. Here is what is said about the book she is in: “This book brings a human dimension to the debate about a woman’s right to choose. Bonavoglia’s interviews with 25 well-known people (mostly women, including Rite Moreno, Margot Kidder, Whoopi Goldberg, Grace Paley, Ursula LeGuin, Elizabeth Janeway) show that the decision to abort is never taken lightly and that it should be made privately, without government interference. The courage of those interviewed–who sought illegal abortions or helped others obtain them, chose to terminate pregnancies resulting from rape, and faced the possibility of bearing children with birth defects–is evident. They demonstrate a strong belief in the right to choose. Most had children when they were ready. Unlike Laurence Tribe’s legal examination in Abortion: The Clash of Absolutes ( LJ 6/15/90), this book makes real the experience of abortion. Highly recommended for most collections.
– Barbara M. Bibel, Oakland P.L., Cal.”
NOTICE!!! This book is supposed to help encourage woman who are faced with a child with birth defects, be able to abort more easily!!!
So Theresa, while I understand your compassion, I must tell you, my daughter deserves my dignity and my voice! Thank you Jill, for continuing to be that voice! The IDSC for Life Stands with you!
http://idscforlife.wordpress.com/
wow. thank you for this post Jill. It is utterly disgusting that Whoppi Goldberg is featured on the Toys R US catalog and in the store — and it should have removed her image from everything immediately upon learning of her statement! If I were running Toys R US — and I might as well be, given the amount of money I’ve spent there — even if the company had spent millions getting that advertising completed prior to her making that statement — I’d personally take down every single poster of her and rip up every catalog showing her face when I learned about her comments on the View. that they apparently did all the advertising before she made that comment is a lame excuse for letting her remain on the catalogs and in the stores — no excuse at all. I’m outraged that that toy store would allow whoppi to be the spokeswoman for its ad campaign. not their spokesperson? baloney. also, intercourse between an adult and a minor is statutory rape in every state. and whoppi’s position that the minor consented is ludicrous. the law itself states that a minor lacks the capacity to consent.
I would add that not only has Whoopi killed many kids, she’s killed MOST of her kids.
And now Toys ‘R Us has made her the model of irresponsible adults waving burning-red-hot, fresh-out-of-the-oven cookie sheets inches away from children.
Thank you so much Jill for keeping me informed! I can not believe it! I would have never thought that Whoopi used Abortion as birth control. What a horrible, horrible thing to do.
I didn’t know some of that background on Whoopi — it does put her bizarre comments in perspective. What a shame that any kid is raised to think it’s normal and okay to have sex at 13 or 14! You’re right, that does “mess you up” for life.
I’ve read that book. She apparently used a hanger to abort. Is it true or just Whoopi trying to “scare” up support for legalized abortion..who knows.
Certainly Whoopi is a human being and God wants to forgive and restore her. God loves her. BUT that doesn’t mean that we should sugar coat what she did and pretend it wasn’t an EVIL act she committed.
Would you have the same compassion for Jeffrey Dahmer? Or is serial murder less heinous if its the murder of your unborn children?
Jill,
I shared my thoughts on this BLOG because the Lord led me to speak out. I have a PASSION for Post-Abortive women. Yes, Whoopi Goldberg is WRONG and Roman Polanski should be judged her on earth..
I only know that I want to see “Hurting Women” who have had abortions know that they can be healed through the Love and Fogiveness of Jesus Christ…
Whoopi Goldberg may never know that. How sad. We live in a fallen World, Jill and make choices every day on how we want to live…
I will be speaking in two weeks again on my abortion to our Church… GOD IS GOOD.. and THERE IS VICTORY IN JESUS.
God Bless you Jill for all you do..
Paula
I contacted Toysrus to let them know I would not shop there again as long as they continue their relationship with Whoopi Goldberg.
Wawa–a fabulous coffee chain/deli/gas station here in the Northeast was giving money to planned parenthood. People were SO ANGRY and called their headquarters nonstop and boycotted them that the supported ended in ONE WEEK. Pro-life pressure works!
Thank you, IDSCforlife for the link to the website. :)
For those that are struggling after abortion please call The National Helpline for Abortion Recovery 1-866-482-LIFE
Or you can email me carla@jillstanek.com
Being a post-abortive mom as well, I feel for those that are hurting right now.
Paula and Theresa,
My love to you and God bless you in sharing the TRUTH about abortion!!
‘most’ people support PP? Hardly!
I would like to also offer resources as well to the woman who are in pain from abortion. We have some excellent resources on our site. While we focus on women who are post abortive due to a prenatal diagnosis, we can recommend them for any of the many reasons that women felt they needed to end their pregnancies. We have many women who have joined our efforts, who have terminated, and their voices are the strongest among us. They want to help prevent another woman from buying the lie, that this is a cure for their problem. They are my heros!!! We stand with them. Please, if you are in need of help, reach out to the wonderful organizations that are offering help. You deserve it!!! You can find those resources on our site! http://idscforlife.wordpress.com/
IDSCforlife,
I would expect nothing less of you and can understand you being upset at the picture. I would feel the same way and your daughter does deserve your voice!
I work daily with couples who aborted because of adverse diagnosis. It is never the right choice.
I am no way condoning Whoopi or what she did, nor do I think she should be a spokesperson for kids…my objection was to the line “Serial-killing one’s own children is about as child-unfriendly as one can be.”
The same points could have been made without that sentence that can send those post abortive seeking healing back under a rock.
I agree, those are very cutting words. I too do not believe we need to use such words to have people understand the situation. I also worry that these kinds of words will continue to paint a picture of hate from the pro life community. Like you, Theresa, I prefer to extend my love to those who have bought the lie, so they can begin the healing journey back. Even if they continue to buy the lie. I understand exactly what you are saying, and believe you have made a very valid and important point. Our words matter. ALL life is precious, including the lives of those who terminate their child, and we need to show respect for ALL life. Not just those we want to show that respect for.
Pray for Whoopi. She celebrates her abortions.
Has Whoopi explained what “rape-rape” is or isn’t, yet?
Jill:
Thank you for the information about the Toys”R”Us campaign featuring “child advocate” Whoopi Goldberg. The following is my response to their News Release.
Thank you for your very important work. You are a hero and should have been the celebrity featured in the campaign.
Mary Johnson
Houston, TX
—– Forwarded Message —-
From: Mary J.
To: Adrienne.Giordano@toysrus.com; Adrienne.Giordano@toysrus.com; Meryl.schrank@toysrus.com
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:20:43 PM
Subject: Why I’m boycotting Toys”R”Us
Dear Ms. Giordano and Ms. Schrank:
I just read your “News” Release:
TOYS”R”US UNVEILS ANNUAL TOY GUIDE FOR DIFFERENTLY-ABLED KIDS
With Support from Whoopi Goldberg, 2009 Guide Offers Toy Suggestions and Safe Play Tips for Children with Special Needs
What were you thinking?
Why such a fine, outstanding company would have Whoopi Goldberg represent Toys”R”Us is way beyond me, my family, my friends, my community, and with growing publicity, the majority of responsible Americans.
You stated in the press release (http://www9.toysrus.com/Investor/pr/082009.html): “The company is committed to serving its communities as a caring and reputable neighbor through programs dedicated to keeping kids safe and helping them in times of need.”
So you hire a person who has had up to SEVEN abortions, believes Roman Polanski’s rape of the 13-year-old child he drugged and sodomized was ‘conscensual sex’, and fully supports admitted Anti-American terrorist / bomber Bill Ayers, as the face of Toys”R”Us?
Not only have I had enough of self-absorbed, hypocritical “celebrities” shoved in our faces by all mediums as role models and authority figures, I draw the line at the ridiculous assertion that Whoopi Goldberg is a caring advocate for children. She quite clearly didn’t care about aborting up to seven of her own, nor about the child raped and sodomized by celebrity Polanski.
ENOUGH!
I will no longer shop Toys”R”Us and I will be forwarding this email to as many people, editorials and blogs as I can.
I truly hope you come to your senses and remove Whoopi Goldberg from your programs.
Most Sincerely,
Mary J.
Hi Carla,
Rape-rape is what conservative men are accused of. Sexual harassment-sexual harassment is something conservative men are accused of. Feminists and liberals are “outraged” over these acts so long as its conservative men accused of them and its only the real thing(rape-rape, sexual harassment-sexual harassment) when it is conservatives accused of them. Facts be damned, innocent or guilty the conservative men will be assumed guilty and even if they’re not, so what?
Rape, sexual harassment, and sexual abuse is something liberal men are also accused of but this generates little outrage from feminists or liberals. The accuser is always psychotic, a liar, trailer trash, or a bimbo. We can understand the man could not control himself as the woman “enticed” him. Also, its perfectly understandable that he lied to cover it up. Who wouldn’t? Also, it doesn’t matter because it happened “long ago”, unless of course you’re Clarence Thomas then its because Anita Hill was too “traumatized” by what were at worst some lousy pick up lines to say anything until 11 years later. Personally at my age, I’d be glad someone even bothered.
So Carla, I hope this answers your question as to what exactly rape-rape, as well as sexual harassment-sexual harassment is.
Hi Carla,
Maybe this helps illustrate my point.
I can remember feminist columnist Ellen Goodman going through some semantic gymnastics to explain why then Gov. Clinton flashing Paula Jones was not sexual harassment. This was often referred to as “propositioning” by our totally unbiased media.
Anyway, Ms.Goodman found herself in the unenviable position of having to explain why feminists were not supporting Paula Jones against feminist poster boy Clinton.
Why, its only sexual harassment if a man continues his advances when a woman has told him to stop! How is a man supposed to know a woman objects to something unless he tries first and she tells him no? Soooo, since Billy boy stuck it back in his pants after Paula shot him down, he was thus not guilty of sexual harassment!
Also, while Clinton’s behavior was lewd, it was not illegal.
So help me, she wrote this. I wrote Ms.Goodman to tell her that her rationale was not only laughable, but her comment about Clinton doing nothing illegal sent a few police officers I know into fits of laughter. Just like her boy Billy, she and the other feminists have gotten caught with their pants down and are hard pressed to explain their persecution of Clarence Thomas and their deafening silence on Bill Clinton.
Being devilish, I had to ask if it would be acceptable to her for a man to put his hand up her dress or down her blouse, so long as he stopped when she told her to.
Never did get an answer.
Mary,
Pretty sure that a definition is changed to suit whatever sounds right to them at the moment.
Does this answer my question? Sorta-sorta. :)
Mary J,
EXCELLENT letter!
It would seem to me that ‘Whoopi’ is the one who got ‘nailed’ !
Females do not do the ‘nailin’. [Assuming Whoopi is not also ‘kinky’.]
Unless you consider swinging the broad/board into the nail as carpentry.
[This is not a values judgement just basic physics and biology.]
and, as Tina Turner so famously sang,
‘What’s love got to do with it’?
Whoopi had more than 50 sex partners.
I wonder how many of them were male.
I wonder how many of them were ‘paid to play’.
I am sure even Whoopi doesn’t believe many, if any, of them truly ‘loved’ her.
My daughter and son work at ‘Babies R Us’.
I have to confess I have been a little bit self conscious about using the ‘Dead Babies R Us’ knockoff to refer the ‘Dead Babies R Us’ crowd, but my misplaced guilt as been assuaged.
yor bro ken
Jill,
Your whole tone is judgemental, and does that produce any good fruit? No. It just reads as so divisive – ie. “Whoopi,you’re an unrepentant sinner, and I’m NOT!”. Well ‘whoopi’ for you Jill.
It’s like you relish nailing Whoopi for her sins. Of course what Whoopi did was wrong, and no she hasn’t repented, but there is a whole host of long term, profound emotional and psychological issues going on with her. Even the ability to repent and to have faith in God is a *gift from God*, that noone should boast. So none of us who have repented of our sins can lord it over others, like you’re doing.
I think Theresa *nailed it on the head* when she said:
“..In fact, extending mercy can be the exact thing someone NEEDS to take accountability.
…without it, they are not even capable of looking at how horrific it is.”
Here here Theresa, et al.
Peace,
Kathy
When a woman like Goldberg is featured on a show like The View, and when she makes statements such as she has, one is obligated to judge.
There is a mistaken notion that Christians are not supposed to “judge” others, but when Jesus tells us not to judge, he is not saying not to call evil evil and good good. When someone is in the public’s eye and making statements such as Goldberg does, we as Christians have an obligation to pass judgement on those statements. Her influence upon others is far-reaching just by virtue of her position and fame; she must be called to account for her statements, otherwise we allow lies and deception to stand uncontested in the public arena.
Agreed, Julie.
Here, here Julie, Jill, et al.
I have to agree with Theresa. But here’s why:
Picture a pagan woman, maybe even one who you know practices witchcraft. Now, you’re walking down the street, and you see this woman lying on the sidewalk with a broken leg.
Would you tell her her ways are wicked and she should repent? Would you (of course, being without fault) choose to judge her and tell her all of the wrongs of her ways? Would you announce her evil ways to passersby that she may have or be influencing?
Or, would you help what is hurting her first – her broken leg? Would you stay with her and comfort her while she was in pain until the paramedics arrived? Would you show her every ounce of love that was in YOU for her during her time of need?
Of these two scenarios, which one would she see the love of Christ flowing through you? Which one would be a “light” in her dark eyes and heart? Which one would the passersby be influenced by more?
The world needs more light. It is filled with enough criticism and condemnation. There are so many more loving ways to show people the way to repentance. THROUGH THE LOVE OF CHRIST!
Marie,
There is one thing wrong with your scenario.
Picture a pagan woman lying on the sidewalk with several of her own dead 2-year-old babies around her that she has killed. And she’s fine with that. In fact, she has been known to joke about it. Right now she has a nationwide camera in front of her, and she’s telling other mothers it is fine to kill their 2-year-old children, too.
Now my first goal would be to stop the pagan woman, who we now know also believes pedophilia is ok. And yes, she is a serial-child killer who is promoting her murderous beliefs to others.
Until we see aborting children in the same way as murdering 2-year-olds we won’t be necessarily moved to make it stop with the sense of urgency that is required.
Aborting mothers have NOT simply broken a leg, Marie. It is not mere “criticism and condemnation” to say an aborting mother has killed her own child or children. It is a harsh reality and must be faced before healing can occur.
I repeat, Goldberg is hardcore. She is not repentant. She is causing other mothers to kill their children. She needs to suffer consequences for her actions and behavior. Some would call that tough love. Toys R Us needs to feel the pain to separate itself from her. She needs to be forced to look herself in the mirror.
Jill,
I think you missed the point. I wasn’t comparing a broken leg to an abortion.
I was comparing that yes, both woman have evils that abound in them, but they also have something that is broken within them that needs to be fixed first.
Whoopie may be vocal about abortion and joke about it to cover her pain. No, she may not show it on the outside, but it may very well be there on the inside.
My point was to show love for the NEED first, and by doing that, we show the love of Christ. At that point, the person may actually be receptive to repentenance.
I’m not judging your motives, Jill. I’m not the one who had to hold a Downs baby until it died in my arms. I understand your anger and possible bitterness when it comes to abortion. I still think abortion is horrible. But it doesn’t make the person horrible.
In your article you stated a couple of times that Whoopie is “messed up”. ok, then let’s figure out a way to work on that. Let’s find out what the underlying issue is in her life that made her abort her children, have multiple sex partners, and thinking it wasn’t “rape-rape”. Let’s pray for her. Have you written Whoopie a letter offering help to her?
Blast Toys R Us, yes…but I don’t think blasting a person that has problems is productive to their repentence and if she read your article, I don’t believe that the first thing she would want to do is “repent”.
Marie, how did Jesus speak to lawyers, who were knowingly hurting people? Did he try to win their hearts through soft spoken words and prayer, showing mercy towards their actions, trying to turn their hearts with kindness? Or did he publicly speak strongly of how evil their actions were?
Marie, the only way to truly come to repentance is to know and understand that what you have done is WRONG.
okay, Bethany. I suppose the approach that you and Jill support would be a sidewalk counselor at an abortion clinic calling the women going in evil, and telling them about their wicked ways.
The MOST successful sidewalk counselor that I have ever witnessed stands outside the clinic, tells the women, “We love you…We want to help you”. This woman has had more women approach her and change their minds about abortions than anyone else out there. NOT ONCE has she ever “called them out” on evil.
Look at Carla’s approach as well. People are receptive to her. Why?
Look at the success of the organization, “The Salvation Army”…why are they successful?
Both tend to the NEEDS of others FIRST. They do it in love. It’s admirable.
Marie,
Thank you for that. Bethany and Jill are as loving as I am towards post abortive women. Trust me on that.
There is love for those broken, hurting, struggling women who KNOW what they have done in the killing of their own children. They are ready to surrender to the Only One who heals. They repent, they heal and they hunger to make a change.
There is a big difference in Whoopi and her unrepentant ways and her brazen talk and her continuing spewing of ugliness on The View. She is “in your face” with her experience. She is not the only Hollywood celeb who celebrates her past abortions.
I pray for the friends I have that are in my face about their abortions and how glad they are that they had them. It is not easy. They are in my circle of influence. Whoopi is not. I can pray for her though.
I really didn’t want to get into this discussion because I enjoy a united front in the prolife movement. I feel it detracts from our message and the other side loves the infighting.
God bless all of you who commented here and are post-abortive. You open your hearts to those hurting from abortion. You are my sisters. We have all “been there” and that is the bond we share.
Thank you, Carla.
Marie, the people who are receptive to that are not the outspoken people who are preaching to the world that abortion is great and wonderful. How would you approach the leader of planned parenthood if she were to come to the protest and start preventing you from accessing women at the clinic? Would you start by walking up to her and saying we love you and want to help you? Of course not- she would laugh in your face and tell you she doesn’t want or need your help.
The people who are seeking abortions are generally acting out of a state of panic and fear of the unknown, and are looking for someone to help them. The people who are receptive to the loving message already know in their hearts that what they are considering doing is wrong, and they are seeking a way out. That is why that sort of message reaches them so much better than it would someone like- well, Whoopi.
Whoopi is not a woman who is in the act of making a decision out of fear or coercion- she is a woman who is constantly telling women that abortion is great and morally ethical, and is leading people into a trap.
She is a woman who is preaching to the world that pedophilia and a rape is a completely fine, for goodness sake.
She is a harm to not only herself but she is leading others to kill and to justify it in their hearts. She is a danger to babies and children every day…and the epitome of shame is the fact that she lifted to this pedastal by Toys R Us…as if she was some spokesperson for disabled children- when she advocates killing them!
Also, just for the record, I don’t believe Whoopi’s claims that she aborted her own babies with a coat hanger in the park…
From the commentary in the New American Bible, St. Joseph Edition:
Jill, your calling multiple abortive women “serial killers” is a narrow and vindictive mentality, too. You seem to have lost the sense of how much destruction words like this are doing. You don’t even give such women “forty days to repent” figuratively, as Jonah did literally. You smartly and cleverly label them and thus demean and dehumanize them.
You are making sure that such women do not “escape God’s wrath” by inflicting it on them yourself.
Is calling women who’ve had multiple abortions “serial killers” really “speaking the truth in love”, Jill?
Is it really what Christ would do?
Using such condemning, alienating language is just not right, Jill, for you or for anyone to do. You do so much more harm and begin to negate so much of the good you’ve ever done.
Even true “serial killer” David Berkowitz, the infamous “Son Of Sam” who terrorized Long Island, NY, killing 6 people and wounding 7 more when I myself was a newly graduated high school senior living right there in his killing grounds, has repented and accepted God (you can read his story in his own words in the book “Touched by the Savior” compiled by Mike Yorkey). The person who “got to him” after 10 years in prison didn’t call him “serial killer.” He didn’t alienate him or piss him off. No, the fellow inmate’s first words to David Berkowitz, a Jew who had been engulfed by satanic beliefs and rituals which led him to become a serial killer, were, “David, can I talk to for a few minutes? I want to tell you something. Jesus Christ loves you very much.”
Jill, God wants me to put it on your heart: please please please go back to being like that blessed fellow inmate which, since we are all sinners, is really what you are. Please stop this attention-getting, mainstream-media-style, sound-bite-bold language. It does not become you. AND it hurts so, so many. I’m sorry to be so blunt but it’s necessary because you, like all those women you just damaged, are a child of God too and I know this is not what God wants you to do.
PEOPLE, ACCEPT THE TRUTH: Whoopi wants everyone to accept children having sex. Period. She somehow has convinced herself that she enjoyed consensual sex at puberty & possibly younger, & that it is great for all kids. No clear definition of rape for her. That is the Gospel of Whoopi.
What makes Sam Smith any more of a serial killer than someone who has multiple abortions? You dehumanize the unborn when you say their deaths don’t mean as much as born people’s deaths.
Be willing to call a spade a spade. Killing people over and over again is serial killing. Nothing “dehumanizing” about that, except to the victims of the killing!
Oops, I don’t know why I said Sam Smith. I meant Son of Sam.
By the way, I find it amazing that there are so many people willing to throw stones at Jill for just speaking what SHE believes (and she said nothing untrue!), but you believe you should silently pray for Whoopi and just let her spew her utter nonsense without speaking back out against that evil? Why is it okay to do speak out against Jill but not Whoopi?
Is calling women who’ve had multiple abortions “serial killers” really “speaking the truth in love”, Jill?
Is it really what Christ would do?
Would you call Gary Leon Ridgway a serial killer?
Is it really what Christ would do?
Why wouldn’t it? Did he not speak out publicly and openly about the evil actions of the Pharisees, Scribes, Lawyers, etc? Did he not tell them that they were condemned for their behavior?
listen to the language Christ Himself used when he spoke to these people and then I think you know the answer as to whether Christ would speak out against someone who is leading others astray or hurting others!
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness…” (Matthew 23:25-28)
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows houses, and for a pretense, make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
, Matthew 23: 14-15
And Jill never condemned Whoopi, by the way. She said that serial killing your children is not child friendly- which, by the way, how can anyone argue with that!
Sorry for the multiple posts. I’m truly bothered by these comments!
SERIAL KILLER
an individual (or conspiracy), operating with or without governmental authority, who directly, or by directive, is responsible for the deaths of 3 or more persons in separate incidents for unjust reasons.
Bethany,
I see your point. I really do. I agree with most of it. I really do. My problem wasn’t with the quotes and facts that Jill put in the article. My problem was the underlying “tone” about Whoopi personally.
It’s just that when I hear what Whoopi says, and hear about what she has done in her life, I can’t help but feel badly for her. People don’t get that way from leading a life in Christ, but rather by being lied to by Satan, and believing the lie instead.
I see hurt in Whoopi. There’s so many things that need to be lovingly “fixed” in her first, before she could possibly be repentive. Maybe she has been hurt so much that her heart has waxed cold. I really don’t know. All I can do is guess. But whatever it is, I feel badly for her. I don’t believe for a second that if she read what Jill wrote that she would want to open her heart to anything. I beleive her heart would grow colder from it.
I’m not “throwing stones” at Jill in any way. I’m giving you my opinion, as she did as well. It’s a debate, Bethany.
If I had the gift that Jill has with writing, I would use that gift to write Whoopi a letter that gives her love, support and the truth. If she disregards it, so be it. At least I tried, and the seed I sowed could possibly grow one day.
Do you know if Whoopi has ever been told of the love that Jesus has for her and how He can heal her?
And one more question that you don’t have to answer, but think about: Do you LOVE Whoopi Goldberg as much as you love an innocent baby in the womb?
Bethany, take a breath. Please. And do not dare–for one millisecond–EVER again think that I, who wrongly chose to abort my only daughter, will ever again be guilty of “dehumanizing the unborn.” Just do NOT go there. Know who you are talking to before trying such a tack again, please, with ANYONE. Go to our blog and read the WHO WE ARE, before you attack me like that again, I beg of you, so you will not make such a wrong and judgmental assumption again, about ANYONE. You make yourself look like an utter fool, and I don’t want you or anyone to look that way.
“Did he not tell them that they were condemned for their behavior?”
Yes, Jesus Christ did. He, and He alone, as God, has the right to condemn someone for their behavior. He did not ask us to do that for Him. No matter what you or anyone says. Not even the Bible.
I never said that Jill condemned Whoopi. I clearly referred only to her condemning post-abortive women who have had multiple abortions.
“Is calling women who’ve had multiple abortions “serial killers” really “speaking the truth in love”, Jill?”
Bethany, when you, or Jill, can answer that question, perhaps I can answer the rest of yours.
No one, and certainly not I, gave Whoopi a “pass” as you and others including Jill imply.
NO ONE has tried to stop folks from spewing utter evil, NO ONE has spoken back against that evil, IF WE OURSELVES HAVE NOT, at our blog, since around 2003-2004. You could spend DAYS, WEEKS, MONTHS, reading all that we have done and written to counteract the evil spewed by Whoopi and all like her. I NEVER in a million years “threw a stone” at Jill for speaking back against evil such as this. Good Lord, Bethany, don’t just grab biblical phrases and lob them at people unless you really know who you’re talking to and what we’re about.
Whoopi, for all her public celebrity and “position” in our culture to help bring down the morals of a child or a million children, is not to be condemned by US. Her actions, yes, are to be judged and condemned, but not HER. She is still a child of God as you and all of us are, regardless of her decision to reject Him. That said, she is not a priest, a scribe or a pharisee or a lawyer or elected politican. She is nothing but an entertainer, as influential as that may be, and she is not much more than a still misguided and hurtfully influential SOUL.
I agree with what Marie just posted. “Do you know if Whoopi has ever been told of the love that Jesus has for her and how He can heal her?”
Bethany, will YOU write that in a letter to Whoopi? Will you take her to task by SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE? Directly to her?
There is no way you can tell me that calling multiple post-abortive women “serial killers” is SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE, as we were commanded by Jesus Christ to do. As HE Himself did to the woman caught in adultery. After all, aren’t we us women who are postabortive “caught in adultery” of a worse kind?
“Did he not tell them that they were condemned for their behavior?”
Yes, Jesus Christ did. He, and He alone, as God, has the right to condemn someone for their behavior. He did not ask us to do that for Him. No matter what you or anyone says. Not even the Bible.
I never said that Jill condemned Whoopi. I clearly referred only to her condemning post-abortive women who have had multiple abortions.
“Is calling women who’ve had multiple abortions “serial killers” really “speaking the truth in love”, Jill?”
Bethany, when you, or Jill, can answer that question, perhaps I can answer the rest of yours.
No one, and certainly not I, gave Whoopi a “pass” as you and others including Jill imply.
NO ONE has tried to stop folks from spewing utter evil, NO ONE has spoken back against that evil, IF WE OURSELVES HAVE NOT, at our blog, since around 2003-2004. You could spend DAYS, WEEKS, MONTHS, reading all that we have done and written to counteract the evil spewed by Whoopi and all like her. I NEVER in a million years “threw a stone” at Jill for speaking back against evil such as this. Good Lord, Bethany, don’t just grab biblical phrases and lob them at people unless you really know who you’re talking to and what we’re about.
Whoopi, for all her public celebrity and “position” in our culture to help bring down the morals of a child or a million children, is not to be condemned by US. Her actions, yes, are to be judged and condemned, but not HER. She is still a child of God as you and all of us are, regardless of her decision to reject Him. That said, she is not a priest, a scribe or a pharisee or a lawyer or elected politican. She is nothing but an entertainer, as influential as that may be, and she is not much more than a still misguided and hurtfully influential SOUL.
I agree with what Marie just posted. “Do you know if Whoopi has ever been told of the love that Jesus has for her and how He can heal her?”
Bethany, will YOU write that in a letter to Whoopi? Will you take her to task by SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE? Directly to her?
There is no way you can tell me that calling multiple post-abortive women “serial killers” is SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE, as we were commanded by Jesus Christ to do. As HE Himself did to the woman caught in adultery. After all, aren’t we us women who are postabortive “caught in adultery” of a worse kind?
One more thing…I WILL be shopping at Toys R Us. I would be delighted to do so.
from their website, www3.toysrus.com/Investor/pr/082009.html
“Toys”R”Us, Inc. has a long history of supporting the special needs community through the Toys”R”Us Children’s Fund, a public charity affiliated with the company. Organizations which receive support include:
American Society for Deaf Children,
Autism Speaks,
Children and Adults with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder,
Muscular Dystrophy Association,
National Down Syndrome Society,
National Lekotek Center,
National Multiple Sclerosis Society,
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children,
Special Olympics,
Spina Bifida Association and
United Cerebral Palsy.
Some of their charities include:
Toys”R”Us Children’s Fund
Autism Speaks
Marine Toys for Tots Foundation
Home Safety Council
Safe Kids USA
Save the Children
Kids in Distressed Situations
Children Affected by AIDS Foundation
The Toys”R”Us Children’s Fund-Starlight Site
Playroom Program
you can read in more detail about these wonderful chartible programs on Toys R Us’ site:
www3.toysrus.com/about/corpPhilanthropy.cfm
Jill,
In light of the above, are you really going to not shop there because Whoopi Goldberg is on one of their magazines? Seriously?
Posted by: Annie Banno at October 8, 2009 9:18 PM
Dude. Jill did not make that comment about post-abortive woman. She made it about Whoopi, who aborted with a smile on her face and is now passing out cookies to children with that same smile and a message that says, “Raping you is okay.” People like this deserve no sympathy, and it’s not because they’ve had multiple abortions. It’s because of the advocation, which, with Whoopi’s range of influence, is totally dispicable.
In short: She’s a lunatic. Who speaks out FOR the MURDER and abuse of children. She has killed several of her own, and does not think it’s wrong. That, to me, is just plain awful.
You’re taking this personally because of your own experience with post-abortive women. You’re placing their faces on Whoopi’s, which is insulting to them and completely inaccurate. If any woman with multiple abortions bragged around me about them, I would have absolutely no trouble explaining to the rest of the people around us exactly why that woman was a serial killer. Nobody brags about killing their own children. Whoopi is not a normal post-abortive woman. And she will never accept her wrongdoing as just that: a wrongdoing.
You can’t show love and compassion with people like Hitler or KKK members, who advocate (ADVOCATE) for the death of innocents. I sure as h*ll wouldn’t.
You’re kidding yourself if you think any mortal human being could make Woopi see the err of her ways. Her twisted logic is justified by the equally twisted Hollywood society in which she lives. You can’t change her, I can’t, the pope can’t, NOBODY CAN. So. The best we can do is show other women what kind of raging monster she is (not for her abortions, but for her advocation of them), and hope they don’t follow in her example.
I condemn her multiple abortions, but I would forgive her if she saw them as deaths, and that is when the healing would begin. Sad bit is, it’s not gonna happen. So until that undefinable time, yeah, I have no trouble calling people what they are. They make their own beds.
Remember:
Abortions + repentance = worthy of sympathy
ADVOCATION + DELUSION + MORE DEAD BABIES – REPENTANCE = SERIAL KILLER
I agree with you Abel. I hardly ever watch “the view” (small letters intended) but the first time I saw Whoppi go after Elizabeth for being pro-life I knew she was a rabid pro-abort. There was no hint of remorse only self-righteous indignation that anyone would question her “right to choose”. Only a heart-transplant by the Lord himself will give her a heart of flesh. I think Jill’s assessment is warrented.
Actually, we contacted Toys R Us, to express to them just how humbling it was for those of us who love someone who happens to have Down syndrome, and to see the spokesperson they have chosen. Toys R Us was very kind and took time to hear what we had to say. I was able to share with them the incredibly sad abortion rate of individuals with Down syndrome, and the fact that the person they chose as a spokes person is openly protecting the right to not have protection for these babies. There are so many layers to this discussion, but from my point of view, this is our layer. I can not tell you that I do not think she should be able to do this campaign. But I must admit, it is very humbling to think that she is making money, (I am assuming she is getting paid, perhaps she did it as charity) off of this. I do pray that while she was with that beautiful girl, her heart was touched beyond measure, and that she walked away a completely different person. You see, our children are one of the acceptable “exceptions” for abortion. We work hard every day to teach others they have value, in the room, and in the womb! My prayer is that Ms. Goldberg walked away that day, just a little changed, by a little girl, who has a little something extra! Many prayers are being said for all of you, as I believe you all have your hearts in the right places, and I pray you can once again unite under this very worthy cause! God bless!
Abel, you said it SO much better than I could. Thank you, I agree with every word!
I don’t believe everyone is a child of God. Created by God, yes. But some people serve another master. You can know them by their spiritual fruit.
Practically speaking, how does a stay at home mom from WI witness to Whoopi Goldberg and the others in Hollywood that celebrate and advocate theirs and others abortions?
Assuming of course, that Hollywood celebs give two figs about what I have to say….
I don’t believe everyone is a child of God. Created by God, yes. But some people serve another master. You can know them by their spiritual fruit.
Posted by: bethany at October 9, 2009 8:44 AM
Bethany, 100% accurate. Many like the first part of Galatians 3:26, but neglect the latter:
“For you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” [emphasis mine]
Abel’s formula is accurate. The adultress was told to go and sin no more. I would just add that God’s arm is not shortened, and the blood of Jesus Christ is sufficient to redeem even the most hard-hearted. But we still “get” to choose to reject Him, to our own peril.
Sorry for the multiple post, my connection wasn’t showing that the initial one had gone through.
Abel, first off, I’m not “dude”.
Secondly, “Serial-killing one’s own children is about as child-unfriendly as one can be” is what Jill wrote and though it started with reference to Whoopi it is still as broad-based a statement as anyone could make, so yes, it does include any woman who has had multiple abortions.
If you were such a woman, you’d clearly understand that, but you aren’t.
Saying that “You’re taking this personally because of your own experience with post-abortive women” seems to imply you haven’t really read all I wrote, in that I don’t just have experience with post-abortive women, I AM ONE.
I’ve gone through this same argument with far too many “saved” Christians. You are so hard hearted you just don’t (refuse to?) see it. You and they insist that forgiveness is only due someone when they’re sorry first. They completely miss that Christ forgave people before they were sorry, over and over again. And that even the Prodigal Son’s father forgave him when he saw him a long way off and had no way of knowing if he was coming back to just ask for more money to spend. He forgave him by running out gladly to greet and welcome him, without ever knowing that he was sorry for what he’d done. In fact, if you read it clearly, the boy only came back so he could eat as well as his father’s animals. NOt really because he was truly repentant. He SAID that he had “sinned” but it wasn’t that he really was repentant. He was just starving to death.
But no, you’ll assume far too many wrong things about me and others, and condemn them when it isn’t your place or mine to do so. You’ll assign crap thoughts to my head (as if I would ever justify what Whoopi or any of us has done).
Go on judging people and condemning them. You’ve all sooooo missed the point, who choose to do that. And sadly, I expected many of you to do just that. It’s all so formulaic of those who insist on demeaning people by labeling them “pro-aborts” , Jill being one of them.
Go on, folks, keep up being one of the worst embarrassments of the prolife movement. Jill doesn’t have her “finger on the prolife pulse” in the least, only the side that demeans people, I’m sorry to say.
When I say Whoopi is a child of God too, you can say I’ve missed the second part of any scripture line you want, but it doesn’t erase the fact that GOD MADE WHOOPI TOO AND THUS IS A CHILD OF GOD. Yes, a child of God who rejects Him, but that doesn’t make her heritage from God any different than yours or mine.
Saying that “You’re taking this personally because of your own experience with post-abortive women” seems to imply you haven’t really read all I wrote, in that I don’t just have experience with post-abortive women, I AM ONE.
Nobody missed that, Annie. I am thankful for the fact that you are working to help women who have had abortions and feel sorry for them.
You don’t seem to understand the point- You are still projecting other people’s faces, and your own experiences onto Whoopi. Whoopi is not you. She is not the women you talk to who are hurt and broken over their abortions. She is not like other post abortive women who feel sorry for their abortions. She is completely unrepentant and is hardened to the core. She ridicules those who speak for life. She makes a mockery of our Savior. She continues to encourage women to abort today- you seem to care more about Whoopi than those babies that she is leading to the slaughter with her words! Have you forgotten the babies lives in your quest to protect women’s feelings?
They completely miss that Christ forgave people before they were sorry, over and over again. And that even the Prodigal Son’s father forgave him when he saw him a long way off and had no way of knowing if he was coming back to just ask for more money to spend. He forgave him by running out gladly to greet and welcome him, without ever knowing that he was sorry for what he’d done. In fact, if you read it clearly, the boy only came back so he could eat as well as his father’s animals. NOt really because he was truly repentant. He SAID that he had “sinned” but it wasn’t that he really was repentant. He was just starving to death.
How do you know that the son was not truly repentant? How do you know what was in his heart? He said that he was not worthy to be called his father’s son. He confessed his sins and begged forgiveness. He turned away from his sin- That is repentance!
If Jesus forgives people who aren’t sorry, why did He not forgive the Pharisees? Or the devil, even?
But no, you’ll assume far too many wrong things about me and others, and condemn them when it isn’t your place or mine to do so.
that’s exactly what you’ve done with Jill! Not to mention that you went to your blog decided to write to the world about how awful you thought she was. For all the preaching you are doing here, you sure don’t seem to care about the way that you’re supposed to approach a brother or sister in Christ when you find fault in them- you’re supposed to approach them privately first. I think that you decided to make Jill out to be the bad guy and start a fight. You claimed that her motives were vindictive when if you’ll be honest with yourself, you do NOT know Jill’s heart and you do NOT know her motives!
And it’s so ironic because the EXACT thing you accuse Jill of doing with Whoopie is what you did with your blog to her!
You’ll assign crap thoughts to my head (as if I would ever justify what Whoopi or any of us has done).
You called her not a serial killer but Son of Sam a “true” serial killer. You have failed to explain what the difference is! If I misunderstood you, please clarify!
Go on judging people and condemning them.
You’ve all sooooo missed the point, who choose to do that. And sadly, I expected many of you to do just that.
So… You came here looking for a fight- EXPECTING us to disagree with you and judging our motives from the beginning?
When I say Whoopi is a child of God too, you can say I’ve missed the second part of any scripture line you want, but it doesn’t erase the fact that GOD MADE WHOOPI TOO AND THUS IS A CHILD OF GOD. Yes, a child of God who rejects Him, but that doesn’t make her heritage from God any different than yours or mine.
Jesus referred to those who rejected Him to be “of their father, the devil.” I’m sorry, I just don’t agree that everyone is a child of God. Every person is created by God but not everyone has been adopted into His family.
Go on, folks, keep up being one of the worst embarrassments of the prolife movement.
It’s just us that’s judgemental. Okay. Your above comment speaks volumes to that. You’re showing all that love and forgiveness every time you speak to us! Thanks for showing us the light, Annie.
“Practically speaking, how does a stay at home mom from WI witness to Whoopi Goldberg and the others in Hollywood that celebrate and advocate theirs and others abortions?
Assuming of course, that Hollywood celebs give two figs about what I have to say….”
Posted by: carla at October 9, 2009 8:53 AM,
Carla,
Think David and Goliath
Walls of Jericho
Daniel
Sampson
Mark 10:27
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”
You can’t on your own.
Posted by: bethany at October 9, 2009 8:44 AM
…and
Posted by: klynn73 at October 9, 2009 11:42 AM
I stand corrected. You both are correct, and I am not. Honestly, I know what both of you said. I’ve been taught it most of my life. I have no idea why I wrote it. The only think I can figure is that I was trying to say “God loves her as much as He loves you”. SOMEHOW, a child of God was written. My apologies.
While we’re on this subject, can either of you please explain something to me? I’ve been troubled by this one for years, and maybe one of you can shed some light on this for me.
We were all born (or before we were born) children of God, right? Only God’s children can enter the gates of Heaven. Until, say, the “age of reasoning”. After which we can not choose to believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ and then “lose” our “child of God” status. Then, when we accept Him, we re-gain our “child of God” status, because we are then adopted into His family.
Is this correct? We are a child of God, then we lose it, then we either gain the status back again or lose it?
On another note (Bethany), you or I do not know if Whoopi is saved or not. Yes, you can “tell them by their fruits”, but we really don’t know the exact status of her salvation at this very second. We have no idea what she did last night. I’m being hopeful, here. And, if she is, we may not see those fruits immediately, right?
I like what IDSCforlife said. “I do pray that while she was with that beautiful girl, her heart was touched beyond measure, and that she walked away a completely different person. You see, our children are one of the acceptable “exceptions” for abortion. We work hard every day to teach others they have value, in the room, and in the womb! My prayer is that Ms. Goldberg walked away that day, just a little changed, by a little girl, who has a little something extra!”
God works in mysterious ways, and with Him, ALL THINGS are possible.
Wow, Marie…that is a really good question. i’m going to have to think about it and read a bit about it…maybe someone here more knowledgable can tackle your question.
Oops, didn’t clarify which question I was speaking about- I was talking about the question of children being born children of God.
Bethany, so you’re speaking for everyone now? I was talking to “Abel” not you, b/c what he wrote sounded like he didn’t realize I am a PA woman. Please don’t assume you speak for everyone when I wasn’t speaking to you about that.
There’s no point in responding to all your taunts and assumptions that I’m “still projecting other faces etc.” You just don’t know what you’re talking about, when it comes to me. You don’t know me one iota, and it’s clear you have reached certain erroneous conclusions about me, since you keep repeating what you think I am doing. I never once said Whoopi was “not a serial killer.” Good Lord, look how many words you put in my mouth that weren’t there and aren’t still. You really oughtn’t do that.
I adhere to the lesson my co-blogger Emily taught me:
I believe that helplessness and powerlessness play a significant role in virtually every abortion decision. I believe that compassion is the appropriate response, and that compassion shouldn’t be conditional on whether or not someone perceives her abortion through the same cognitive and religious eyes as mine.
Please don’t use the labels “anti-choice” or “pro-abort”. Please don’t label individuals.
By the same token, please don’t imply that men or women who say that their abortion experience was positive are in denial.
If people are in denial, that would be because of an event that is too traumatic for them to process in the light of reality. If you really believe someone is in denial, why would you want to add insult to injury?
Before you post something, ask yourself, “Do I want to be right or do I want to be generous, kind, charitable…and right?”
You, Bethany, and Jill and those who agree with them, don’t care about being generous, kind, charitable. You just care about YOUR interpretation of Jesus’ example being the right one.
You don’t speak the truth in love, Bethany, and no one does who attacks another as Jill did when she labeled all multiple-PA women serial killers.
It is just not “speaking the truth in love.” It just isn’t.
It’s sad how no one has addressed that question I posed. Except Marie, who “gets it.”
God bless you, Marie, and yes, even you Bethany, Abel, Jill, et. al. I wish the latter group a metanoia, though, for sure.
Bethany,
Thanks! I’d really appreciate that. I asked my mother as well, and she says what she always says: “you always come up with some real doozies!” (she didn’t know either!)
:)
God bless you too, Annie!
:)
Marie,
To answer to your question, I believe that at birth we are not yet children of God. We were all created by Him, but are born with an inheritance of original sin that separates us spiritually. From our first parents’ rebellion, the angel stands guard at the entrance to Eden and since then, unnatural death, strife and even creation’s imperfections in the animal kingdom and the physical earth (natural disasters) are a result of the Fall. Contrast what we see around us with God’s original intentions: no sickness or death (perfect health and immortality), walks with Him in the cool of the day (perfect fellowship in seasonable climes), not even any shame at not being clothed (guilt-free).
You might be wondering how can anyone say an infant isn’t innocent? I do believe in an age of accountability and my wise-beyond-her-years niece pointed out that she thinks Scripture is intentionally quiet on this point, because the very concept has been used to exterminate children. Being spiritually disconnected at birth does NOT mean I think children go to hell or purgatory-more on that later (videos).
Inherited traits can seem unfair; I like the analogy I’ve heard that it’s as though after our first parents bailed out of an airplane, every generation since connected by the umbilical cord is caught in the Fall, too. We are created to be connected to our Creator, and He calls us back to Him, in many ways and through various people. We become spiritually reconnected to God (and become His children through faith in Christ Jesus) when we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19). I hold that this occurs at baptism; this is where waters (no pun intended) get muddy between different denominations.
The common Hebrew word for “spirit” ruach, is also the word for “wind” or “breath” and the Greek word pneuma also means “spirit/wind/ breath”. Compare Genesis 2:7 (God breathing life into Adam) and John 20:22 (Jesus breathing on His disciples).
That we are adopted into the family is significant. I heard a message years ago that Hebrew law allowed a father to disown his natural son, but an adopted son could not be disowned.
Children are my favorite people, and they certainly seem closer to God than most adults I know. But I’ve also witnessed families where the philosophy was children are like wild flowers and boundaries and discipline are “mean” parenting. In every instance not training them up in the way that they should go has revealed what Paul calls the old nature, the fallen nature that we’re born with–no accident that “Mine” “Me” and “No” are some first favorite words. Ever watch Super Nanny? You get the idea.
I happened upon some incredible accounts you might be interested in viewing. Earthquake Kelley on Manna Fest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SSqdtWZnZY and another little girl named Victoria who told her grandmother about seeing her (GM’s) “beautiful, beautiful son” aborted 35 years prior. The child had no knowledge of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVk-ItAmdnA. Ron Pettey had a stillborn son and saw other children: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bJ4vZ1aDcM.
I apologize for any typos or confusing wording, as I’m typing while very tired, but wanted to address this before it got lost! G’night.
Annie Banno, I remember you from some time ago, from another venue. Specifically I remember that someone was once unkind to me, and made a derogatory comment mocking me, when I shared my own reasons for having an abortion. I expected that to be that, because in a lot of these discussions the vibe is basically that you either adamantly regret your abortion, or you lose any right to be treated with respect. But you and Emily stood up for me and for the fact that I deserved to be treated with respect, or at least that I would be treated with respect as long as you were around. We disagreed on many things but when someone took to insulting me, your attitude was unequivocally that I deserved better. That has always stayed with me and I have never forgotten it.
I haven’t been online much in the past couple weeks but I’m glad I stumbled onto this discussion, because I am so happy to have a chance to tell you how important that one act of kindness was to me. I hope you’re well.
klynn73,
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all of that! I think your explanation was awesome. Your niece is very wise, too! I think that many of my questions will finally be answered when I meet my Lord & Savior face to face! Wow! That will be awesome! I have so many questions that probably won’t matter much when I get there, though!
I agree with you that we become reconnected to God at baptism. You are correct that it’s where the waters get muddy! I believe that we are baptised by the Holy Spirit (not water) into the body of Christ when we accept that Jesus died on the cross and rose again the third day.
At any rate, I do know that God loves every single person that He created. My mother told me once (when I had issues with a very “rude” person) that when I see the person that I don’t like very much, just to picture Jesus standing beside them and to picture Him saying “I died for her/him too”. That helped!
Thank you so much again! (I’ll check out the videos later today…it’s waaaaaay to early to turn the speakers on!)
Alexandra,
I teared up when I read your post. It was very beautiful and sincere. I am so glad that Annie & Emily were there for you!
:)
Alexandra,
Thank you for your comment. I truly wish that Annie had extended the same grace to Jill and Bethany(two of the sweetest people I know)that she extended to you when you needed it most.
Carla! I admit to not having read the full discussion, due to time constraints, but I will always agree that perhaps one of the saddest things about love and sympathy is seeing conditions put on it. Which we all do, of course. The old catch-22, that even to be tolerant of everything you must at least be intolerant of intolerance.
I’m a stubborn mule. If someone says, “That guy is an idiot! Only an idiot would possibly think that! Look at him! You’re not an idiot too, are you?” I figure I’d rather be an idiot than a cruel person who goes around calling people idiots. (Fortunately those aren’t the only two options in life! I hope to be someone who is neither idiotic nor cruel, though I suppose some people will, because of their own biases, view the truth as cruel in and of itself.) Back in my playground days I never responded well to that “You’re not a sissy, are you?” kind of bullying. “If a sissy is someone who cries when you put gum in her hair then yes, I am. What are YOU?”
I’m just rambling. I suppose I shouldn’t say anything unless I’ve read everything that’s already been said.
I love you.
I love you too, Carla!