Obama replicates Bush’s Thanksgiving proclamation but scrubs thanksgiving for Life
Politico posted a story November 25 entitled, “Obama goes basic in Thanksgiving proclamation.”
The story intrigued me because daughter Daena worked as a writer, of proclamations in part, for President Bush during the last 18 months of his 2nd term. Coincidentally, Daena wrote Bush’s last Thanksgiving proc in 2008.
Politico noted…
A president’s 1st Thanksgiving Day proclamation is an opportunity for the commander in chief to highlight his new administration’s accomplishments or reassure the nation at a time of gratitude and family togetherness.
But President Obama’s Turkey Day bulletin Monday went in a different direction.
Obama’s declaration is short – just over 400 words – and gives no specific examples of things that Americans should rejoice in or recover from, despite his eventful first year in office….
So I compared President Bush’s last and President Obama’s 1st and found the Obama writer pretty much followed Daena’s template, with the exception of excluding personal acknowledgment of Who to be thankful to, according to Bush’s proclamation:
On this day, let us all give thanks to God who blessed our Nation’s first days and who blesses us today. May He continue to guide and watch over our families and our country always.
Obama’s only mention of God was in a quote by George Washington.
There were notable deviations between the 2. For instance, President Bush called the 1st celebrants “Pilgrims,” Obama said they were “European settlers.”
And Daena made sure President Bush’s proclamation was chock full of thanksgiving for Life:
We recognize that all of these blessings, and life itself, come not from the hand of man but from Almighty God….
Having arrived in the New World, these early settlers gave thanks to the Author of Life….
Today, as we look back on the beginnings of our democracy, Americans recall that we live in a land of many blessings where every person has the right to live, work, and worship in freedom….
Of course, Obama’s pro-death team scrubbed all that.
[Photo of Obama pardoning the White House Thanksgiving turkey via ABC News]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
He is a weird guy. I’m sure it pains him to even have to acknowledge “White Guy” holidays like Thanksgiving. Maybe he’ll bow to some foreign visitor today.
It will be interesting to see if anyone other than me will denounce Jack’s racist statement.
First of all, “Jack,” please choose one moniker and stick with it, or all of your posts, including those on other threads under different names, will be deleted. Thank you.
Secondly, Bystander, what a hero you are, denouncing racism while championing the extermination of a weaker class of human beings.
I see the blog PC monitor has showed up.
Oh, being a pro-abort, white or black, is the most racist thing a person can be.
You see, they kill way more black babies than white babies as a percentage of abortions performed.
In fact, we should classify all unborn children as a separate race, i.e., the innocent, defenseless, human beings who people like Bystander could care less about.
If one were truly a non-racist they would want all abortions eliminated.
Hence Bystander, you are actually a Racist of Racists.
Happy Bird Day!
This too Bystander:
If you think you’re somehow superior because you’re a pro-abort and supposedely not a racist, you obvioulsy have a very warped mind set.
Look, you’ve got nothing over on anyone one of us pro-lifers.
So, go stuff your turkey with your racist BS.
Glad to see the far right extremists are celebrating the holiday with hate speech. LOL.
that turkey gets to ride in a parade at Disney Land. ;) (Yes, I am serious!)
Abraham Lincoln was the first to make a Thanksgiving Day proclamation. FDR was the one that made Thanksgiving the 4th Thursday of November to extend the Holiday Shopping season (I think?)
Liz,the FDR vs Lincoln analogy was nice. But I think the party values have changed somewhat since those days, so I don’t think it’s an accurate criticism of democrats if that was your point. If not I apologize.
The only hate speech being spewed on this site is by those who don’t protect unborn children.
By definition, if you are a pro-abort, everything you say is tainted with hate…..utter hate for innocent life.
To call pro-choice people (they’re not “pro-aborts”) racist is not only grossly unfair but asinine.
The fact that there are so many abortions are for black women has to do with POVERTY, not racism.
If there were less poverty among black Americans there would be fewer black abortions. This isn’t
the fault of pro-choicers.
And to say that pro-choicers “hate” children is
equally stupid. Do people who have their ailing pets euthanized”hate” their pets ? Come on.
And it’s a large part the fault of republican presidents and politicians that this nation has
not reduced the number of poor blacks in America, by hypocritically claiming to be “pro-life” while
gutting or eliminating programs which would help poor blacks and the poor in general and lower the abortion rate. So it isn’t pro-choicers who are to blame for this deplorable situation.
And as I’ve said before, if the Obama administration’s social and economic policies could be made to work, the abortion rate for blackand all women would decrease markedly.
So please don’t accuse Obama of being a “baby killer” or in favor of “infanticide”. That’s exactly what he wants to do. He’s much more pro life than those who oppose abortion.
They represent the REAL culture of death.
I have to admit this is the first holiday proclamation by a President that I’ve read …
Having read GWB’s, I’m rather disappointed that the the current POTUS didn’t have someone work a little harder at his …
As for the rest of these comments, surely there’s more turkey for everyone to eat? Somewhere?
Happy Thanksgiving Day to you, Robert Berger!!!
I’m glad the president pardoned the turkey. I wish someone would pardon all of them, so they can live out their lives at a sanctuary somewhere.
Happy Tofurky Day, everyone: http://www.tofurky.com/.
Robert said: “if the Obama administration’s social and economic policies could be made to work, the abortion rate for black and all women would decrease markedly.”
And therein lies the rub: IF Obama…’s social and economic policies could be made to work….
You see Robert, IF those polices worked we conservatives would embrace it. We don’t embrace it precisely because it doesn’t work.
If you could show us socialistic countries where it is working and where they are NOT one or two generations away from bankruptcy we may actually be convinced that this may work.
Why do I say this?
Well first: think “PONZI” scheme.
Second: surely in your own life you’ve seen that people don’t work as hard as they can and take only what they need. Which is what all socialist programs must have to be successful.
Yet human nature is to take as much as you can and work only as much as you need. Thus any government handout program will surely not only need more money the next year but will eventually breed a generation of citizens who expect to take more than they get. 1000’s of years of studying human nature has shown us why only incentivized meritocracy with constrained capitalism works.
Conservatives are conservatives because they abandon the feel good wishful thinking and look for solutions that have been proven over time. Obama’s policies have failed in every country that has tried them.
Yes, including tiny 11 million large Sweden. In 1970 they were living large yet by 2000, Sweden had fallen to 14th in the OECD’s ranking of per-capita income. If Sweden were a state in the United States, it would now be the fifth poorest. They are only a few generations away from bankruptcy at this rate. They have realized this and are trying to change. Will they do so in time?
But since this is actually a site about life and abortion, let me address that as well. If a fetus is human, then what you just said is akin to saying: “If the US Government would provide a good way for the white slave owners to stop needing slaves then slavery would stop. Until then you have no right to try and stop slavery. Or even speak out against it. Until then you must give farmers a choice (pro-choice) to have slaves or not.
But Robert, if the slave is human, what racist horrible audacity would someone have to have, to insist that someone provide economic or financial incentives before you can stop the enslavement of human beings?
Similarly if the fetus is human, what sort of evil Hitlarian principles must someone subscribe to, to insist that until we solve the economic issues we can’t stop the slaughter.
On the other hand if you don’t think the fetus is human, the burden of proof is on you to prove it isn’t. Do you have 100% proof that the fetus is not human? Until you can provide that proof, you could be murdering humans. What excuse do you have?
And bailing by saying “You personally wouldn’t do an abortion or encourage someone to have one but you can’t impose your moral values on others” fails the most basic logic. That’s like saying: I wouldn’t own slaves, but I can’t force you not to have one.
YES YOU CAN! to cop a phase and you should stop others from killing what may be human regardless of their economic situation.
P.S. The irony of all this is that I agree with you in part. You see I can show that welfare and Obama type social programs are precisely the cause of African American economic distress and one of the causes of the increase in abortions. Welfare created the breakdown of the family which can be directly traced to the increase in the abortion, murder , robbery & divorce rates, not to mention sucides, rape, sexual abuse, bad grades and lower income. I can provide evidence for all this. Obama’s policies will only INCREASE abortion and eventually require euthanasia as the ponzi scheme starts to get too top heavy.
What you’re saying about Sweden is nonsense.
Yes, the country,like other ones in Europe, has its social and economic problems, but it’s in fact one of the most advanced and prosperous countries in the world.
Taxes are sky high, but losing your job there is never a catastrophe for any one, and you don’t have to worry about providing for your family or
losing your home.
Comparing abortion to slavery is ludicrous.
It’s unfair and totally disingenuous. You can stop slavery but you can’t stop abortion. You can’t legislate abortion out of existence, because women will always find a way to have them, unlike slavery.
And making abortion illegal is actually a form of slavery, because it also condemns many children who ARE born to lives of abject poverty and misery. The only way to prevent abortion is to
prevent unwanted pregnancies,and to provide more help to poor pregnant women, and republican administrations have consistently failed to do this and thus failed to prevent abortions.
Pro-choicers like me aren’t responsible for abortions happening. We have no control over
women who do. They aren’t our fault. And even if
I were to change my mind and become anti-choice, it wouldn’t make any difference.
But just making abortion illegal and telling women that they must bear any child or else doesn’t work. It only makes a bad situation far worse.
Just a few comments:
* The abortion rate for African Americans is five times the rate for whites. A lot of people bring this up as an indication that many black women don’t have the resources to raise a child. What isn’t noted is the fact that the BIRTH rate for African Americans is also higher that the birth rate is for whites.
If there’s a poverty problem it isn’t that African American women need better access to resources in order to raise more children (if all those pregnancies were brought to term there would be a tremendous baby boom within the AA community). The problem seems to be that there is an unmet need for resources to avoid unwanted pregnancies among blacks. An African American woman is far more likely that her white counterpart to endure the difficulties associated with an unwanted pregnancy. We ought to spend some time thinking about why that should be and look for ways to bring down the pregnancy rate (this, of course, would also bring down the abortion rate).
* Robert Berger said, “Republican administrations have consistently failed to [address the problem of poverty] and thus failed to prevent abortions. ”
The fact is that the abortion rate went down under Reagan (from 29.4 abortions per 1000 women of childbearing age to 27.3). It went down under George H.W. Bush (27.3 to 25.9). It went down in George W. Bush’s first term (from 21.5 to 19.4) and I expect that we will see a further decline for his second term when the numbers come in.
Republicans haven’t done that bad a job in bringing the abortion rate down.
* For Storm: Conservatives aren’t the only ones who are Pro-Life. There are liberals, such as myself, who see advocacy for the unborn in the same light as we see advocacy for the poor and the disadvantaged. Liberal Pro-Lifers generate different ideas of HOW to lower the abortion rate, but our desire to see it lowered is rooted in the same desire to value life at all stages that conservatives feel.
* What I’m thankful for: First of all for life itself, for my own life and for the lives of others. For the capacity to respect and appreciate the lives of others and for the great honor of being able to pray, each day, for the welfare of the very young.
Paul Bradford, Pro-Life Catholics for Life
“Pro-choicers like me aren’t responsible for abortions happening. We have no control over women who do. They aren’t our fault. And even if I were to change my mind and become anti-choice, it wouldn’t make any difference.”
Hi Robert Berger,
You underestimate the power of the individual and you are not alone in doing so. You have the power of persuasion to give hope to men and women with unwanted pregnancies, power to go out and volunteer at donation drives for pregnancy centers and charities that help families. Educate your own family about the dignity of the human person and how difficult life situations will not be made better by the taking of an innocent human life. There are so many ways you can make a difference….
So, go stuff your turkey with your racist BS.
Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at November 26, 2009 9:57 AM
such an expression of God’s love is hard to overlook.
“such an expression of God’s love is hard to overlook.”
Posted by: Hal at November 27, 2009 12:17 PM
Hi Hal,
Don’t forget that the greatest expressions of God’s love are the children he gives us.
I understand Janet. I’m just wondering what’s got HisMan all in a hissy? I went to his website and saw a very nice video of him talking calmly about his business. Here, on the other hand, he’s always looking for a fight.
Well, to be fair, it wouldn’t have been the place to explain his convictions. I was more struck by the difference in tone. He looked reasonable, friendly, and intelligent. Totally different than his postings here. ;)
I must say, Sasha and Malia Obama are just so cute!
And to the coward otherwise known as Robert Berger, provide your stats. If you’re even capable of it.
I don’t have to “prove” my statistics. They’re there for anybody to look at.
I do not have the right to try to tell any pregnant woman that she should not have an abortion,let alone harass her and other pregnant women as so many anti-choicers do routinely.
That is her choice, and no one else who is not related or a close friend has any right to interfere.
When you say that”taking the life of an innocent human being will not make a difficult situation better”, you are dead wrong.
What you fail to realize that trying to force women to bear children against their will has catastrophic results for any society and results in nothing but death,destruction, and more human misery. It has never worked and never will.
Forcing children to be born into abject poverty,
even though some will manage to succeed in life despite this does nothing but increase poverty,
hunger,unemployment and crime,which creates a
vicious cycle of more poverty,unemployment and crime, more unwanted pregnancies, more abortions
and more human misery.
Abortion is a necessary evil.It’s extremely unfortunate but the alternative is far,far worse.
God, Robert Berger, not the “cruelty is necessary” argument. I’ve long ago decided not to listen to people like you who are okay in their comfortable lives saying that it’s no good trying to make things better- the world will always have things like abortion, poverty, racism, genocide, rape, and pain- so why bother fighting it? I’ve committed myself to every day reading something from someone good, trying to create some work of art, and trying to do something to improve the world and, most importantly, have ignored anyone who does not wish to move himself off of his couch to help someone else; frankly, it is more calming.
You should try it, Mr. Berger. You might feel better. The world can be improved, and, for the record, you’re foolish if you think that making slavery illegal put a stop to it. Slavery still happens in this country. But you can go back to your own world and ignore it if you want.
Or, you can, despite enormous pressure and painful circumstances, simply love someone else and realize that, though it’s harder, you have to do the right thing.
Robert Berger: “And making abortion illegal is actually a form of slavery, because it also condemns many children who ARE born to lives of abject poverty and misery.”
It seems we’ve traversed this territory before, Robert. You were denying that you’re a proponent of killing children from low-income families, and yet that’s exactly what you’re doing right here.
I wish to God someone had “interfered” and told me about free ultrasounds, help, support, adoption, free maternity clothes and did I mention help and support?? How did my abortion “help” me, Robert? How does abortion “help” women?
I challenge you Robert to find a woman who regrets NOT having an abortion.
You are totally clueless.
Robert Berger, do you ever get tired of being a troll?
Robert Berger:
God thinks abortion is wrong. You want to call Him stupid as well go ahead.
Your gross moral relativism is absolutely senseless.
Spiritual poverty or lack of morals is the problem here not physical poverty, which can only bwe solved by one thing; faith in God.
Hey Hal:
Glad you’re so concerend about my “attitude”. Yes, my anger is real. It’s as real as if they were taking two or three year olds and shooting them in the head in the name of convenience, choice, etc., etc……and legally.
You see, I’m not inconsistent in my pro-life stance. I do believe that unborn children are full human beings just like you are or anyone else born alive.
I believe your anger is real, HisMan. I hope you find some peace and happiness.
Robert Berger,
In my experience, men who are so heavily invested in defending abortion have either experienced their own child as having been aborted, usually at their insistence, or they are trying to keep the escape hatch open.
If neither of these applies to you, then the alternative explanation for your full-throated defense of abortion is simply unthinkable!
Get to confession, sacramental or otherwise. It’s never too late.
God Bless
I don’t go to confession because I’m a Jew
(non-observant). And how do you know that God
“hates” abortion ? Do you have a hotline to the almighty ? I wouldn’t want to talk about my private life to a clergyman,anyway.
And I’m not calling God “stupid”. No, I don’t have any children and have never fathered any illegitimate ones or made women pregnant and forced them to have abortions. I would never want to force any woman to have an abortion, but I would not want to try to coerce one into NOT having one,either, especially one I don’t
even know, which I have absolutely no right to do.
And I’m not a “moral relativist”. There’s no such thing. Moral relativism is nothing but a straw man invented by conservatives.
It’s such a smug and self-serving term, and I hate it. It assumes that only conservatives know what’s moral or not, and that any one who disagrees with them in any matter thinks there’s no such thing as right or wrong, and that anything goes, which is ridiculous.
If you go the website useless.knowledge.com, where any one can contribute opinion pieces or essays on anything, you can see my opinion piece
Moral Relativism, a favorite straw man of conservatives”, as well as other things I’ve written for it. This is not to be confused with uselessknowledge.com, a different website.
A scared, alone and pregnant woman who is out of a job is offered support, love and help all for FFFFRRREEEEEEEEEE!! My pregnancy center has helped women find a place to live, payed the rent and even helped them find jobs while that baby grew.(No force required. The baby grows until birth-DUH)
How is that coercion, Robert Berger?
Many anti-abortion fanatics DO try to coerce women. They’ve been known to try to block women from entering facilities which provide abortions,
which is a crime, as no one has the right to bar any one entrance to any public facility of any kind.
Many scream names at woemn seeking abortions and thrust pictures of aborted fetuses into their faces, and do9 all manner of stupid and unsavory
things in the name of “saving babies”(really fetuses).
And this isn’t coercion?
Cite a source please. I would NEVER associate with anyone that yelled names at women, screamed in their faces, or blocked them from entering. That is not how to win hearts or change minds.
I have friends that used to block the doors from women. That was 20-25 years ago. Where does it happen today, Robert?
Telling women their child is “a bunch of cells” or “just some tissue” or saying the procedure is not painful or not describing any of the risks of abortion is WHAT EXACTLY? Say it with me…COERCION.
Lies. Plain and simple.
Coercion
the use of express or implied threats of violence or reprisal or other intimidating behavior that puts a person in immediate fear of the consequences in order to compel that person to act against his or her will.
How is it coercion to show a woman an ultrasound of her growing child?
I repeat. I DO NOT approve of any kind of strong arm tactics against those seeking abortion. I purposely walk away and stand elsewhere if someone has a dolly or BABY KILLERS sign. You would be hardpressed to find anyone here that would put a knife to someones throat who wanted an abortion. But….wait…didn’t that just happen in Duluth, MN? Silly me. It was an abortion minded woman who drew the knife and acted in a violent manner against a prolifer.
Any condemnation for that act of violence, Robert?
Your first sentence mentions anti-abortion fanatics…..is that who you think we are? Or are you talking about the lunatic fringe? That does not describe anyone I know in the prolife movement.
Of course I would never condone violence against abortion protesters. But harassment of women seeking abortions is still very common.
And laws telling these women that they MUST
have ultrasounds are a gross violation of their rights. If a pregnant woman wants an ultrasound, fine. But no one has the right to force her to.
And the vast majority of pro-choice people
are NOT violent.
You misunderstand. It is abortion clinics that routinely DO NOT show women the ultrasound.(Ultrasounds are used in abortion clinics to find the baby and kill him/her)
In states with Ultrasound legislation,
an abortion clinic BY LAW has to OFFER to show a woman the ultrasound of her growing child. She can still refuse. She has to sign off that she was at least offered the option to see the child growing in her womb.
Abortionist “Do you want to see the ultrasound?”
Woman “No.”
There ya go.
I want to thank you Robert for at least holding a discussion with me about abortion. I appreciate adult discourse instead of the same ol same ol, poor, poor pregnant women…
Robert Berger: “And how do you know that God
‘hates’ abortion ? Do you have a hotline to the almighty ? I wouldn’t want to talk about my private life to a clergyman,anyway.”
I agree with you that we cannot know if God/gods exist or not, and, if so, what He/She/They hate. But Phil was 100% when he likened abortion to killing three-year-olds, as we know scientifically that embryos and fetuses are human beings, just as we are.
Let me clarify my last comment.
I was a poor, poor pregnant woman when I was lied to and had an abortion. I felt I had no choices. I am who you are always talking about, Robert. Abortion hurt me deeply and killed my eldest child.
Adoption. Think about it.
Robert,
Although you do not condone violence against abortion protesters, you do condone violence against unborn children in the womb.
Your logic is illogical.
That is NOT violence. It’s a brief surgical procedure which terminates a pregnancy, not violence.
And in first trimester abortions, it’s known that a fetus cannot even feel pain.
But unwanted children if born, are often at great risk of being the victims of violence themselves, by incompetent mothers who commit violence against them,violent stepfathers, and much more.
As I’ve said before, if I were a developing fetus
and would be born into abject poverty, hunger,neglect,physical and sexual abuse, malnutrition, inadequate education, filth, surrounded by crime etc, I would rather be aborted.
Where is the logic in wanting to prevent all abortions even if would have catastrophic results for society,including increased poverty, crime and unemployment ?
Because, as we all know, poor people and people of color are responsible for the problems in the world.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Robert. I’ve heard this a thousand times before. Soon Dhalgren will come on, back you up, and say, “Well, just look at it. Europe has legalized abortion- they’re civilized! As opposed to those uncivilized cannibals down in Africa. Just look at them. How could you not hate them and the pain that they inflict upon the world?”
I suppose that it’s a good thing that you don’t understand life as one of society’s “underdogs.” It means that you’ve never been through what some people have been through, and that’s good. But you have no right to spout hatred and act like you understand the situation.
When did I ever say that”poor people of color are responsible for most of the problems of the world”? There was absolutely no hatred in what I said in my last post.
I was merely pointing out that when poor,unwanted children are born into awful conditions, the results are catastrophic for society. That’s a fact.
And incidentally, most of the awful-looking photos of aborted fetuses are frauds of the anti-abortion movement. Most are photos of miscarried fetuses
and stillborns, and some are the result of putting body parts together.
This shows you what phonies these anti-abortion fanatics are.
Ripping the arms and legs off of unborn babies in their mother’s wombs IS violence. The worst kind of violence done to the innocent.
Don’t you remember that abortion was legalized so there would be no more child abuse????? Yes sireeee, Bob!! That is working out so well for us now, isn’t it?
Child abuse knows no economic status.
Yes, after an abortion the body parts of babies are put back together to make sure all of the baby has been chopped up and vacuumed out. Sickening isn’t it??!! Please show the documentation of miscarriages and stillborns being used for the movement….wouldn’t they have to be chopped into pieces as well??
Your rhetoric is sooooooooooooooooo 1970’s. Join us please in the present and do your homework.
Robert Berger,
“I would not want to try to coerce one into NOT having one,either, especially one I don’t even know, which I have absolutely no right to do.”
Robert, as a Ph.D. in Molecular Biology and Microbiology, I can assure you that from the moment of conception a new human organism exists, complete with its own unique genetic identity. That organism is a whole and complete organism in form and function for that, and every subsequent stage of development. It does not require a brain or nervous system as its central organizing entity. That job is performed by the genome, a copy of which resides in every cell nucleus, present from fertilization.
The question becomes whether or not a human organism possesses personhood status as an intrinsic quality, or whether it is conferred by a political or intellectual elite, subject to revocation by same at will.
As a Jew, I’m sure you grasp what this means vis the Nuremberg Laws and subsequent Holocaust. How then, is it that Jews represent one of the largest (per capita) groups that reject the idea that personhood is intrinsic to being?
In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson distilled three hundred years of Enlightenment Philosophy into one profound document. Even this secular humanistic document recognized that all humans have rights that come from God, and that the first among these is the right to life. It further declares that the entire purpose of government is to secure these unalienable rights. I note that “life” in the declaration was not qualified along developmental, sexual, racial, religious or socioeconomic lines. The statement is all-encompassing.
Do I have a hotline to the Almighty, as you ask? Funny You should mention…
The Almighty actually chose to reveal Himself to us. He also chose to reveal to us our great purpose in the great chain of being. That revelation has been faithfully transmitted by the Apostolic successors for two millennia. As a Jew, you are free to opt out of Christianity.
You are not free to opt out of your fundamental human identity. As such, your quote above makes no sense. You are as obliged to attempt to dissuade a woman from having an abortion, as you are to talk a jumper down from a ledge, or a kidnapper to free his hostage.
To quote a first century Rabbi, You are your brother’s keeper.
First of all, you are wrong to say that it’s better off being dead. I can’t go into too much detail without getting furious, which I don’t wish to be; so it’s best to just leave you on this note, but, trust me- I know. Carla knows. Ask her.
But you’re wrong- we are not any different from you and we are NOT catastrophic for society. The circumstances of one’s birth do not make one more dangerous to society as opposed to someone with a traditionally defined “perfect” life. All people hold within their grasp good and evil. All people are equal.
Second, every science textbook shows images of fetuses at those stages the exact same way, except that they haven’t been destroyed in the same manner: their limbs are all there, and every abortionist will tell you that to have a first trimester abortion, you remove the limbs and remove the fetus piece by piece. Images of wanted people look the same as images of unwanted people at the same age- the only difference is that wanted people do not have injuries.
Look it up in a science or health book.
Robert, one of the reasons your rants are so offensive is that the very people you are trying to teach that the poor are better off dead, are people who have been poor themselves, or who are still poor today!
Notice how many people have come out to talk about their actual experiences with poverty over your last years worth of elitist rants, and how that has never ever been a reason that they would ever want to die- ever!
You have no experience with actually being poor, and you likely associate yourself with no poor friends. You have no idea what actually matters in this world, and that is love.
It would do you good to experience poverty for a little while- or at least make some friends who are poor. It might teach you some very needed lessons for your life, and enlighten your eyes a bit.
Maybe instead of killing off those who would become poor, you could do your part to help those in need. Hint: Killing isn’t “helping”.
Agreed, Bethany. My husband lost his job twice when I was set to deliver children 2 and 3. We have been on public assistance, food stamps and needed Catholic Charities for baby number 4. In those situations, Robert would have wanted me to kill my precious children??? Unthinkable.
No, I wouldn’t have “wanted” you to have an abortion, but I would want you to have that option. That would be your decision, and no one else’s.
But as far as I am concerned, I have absolutely no right to tell women I’ve never even met before
that they must bear a child or else.
It’s not that pro-choice people “want” abortions to happen, including me. If it were possible to prevent all unwanted pregnancies and all children could get decent food, clothing,shelter,education and medical care, it would be wonderful.
But that’s absolutely impossible. That’s why some people are pro-choice.
I’m very glad that you and your family were able to get through your crisis and are doing alright now. But not all families and single pregnant women are that fortunate.
The option to kill my own flesh and blood? My own child? Great option there, Robert.
I have every right to try and appeal to women to not abort, in fact it is now my mission in life to walk beside women who are scared and alone and need a friend to help them through their pregnancy. It is the highest calling of LOVE to offer to others what I wanted so desperately back in 1990. Did you know that many women feel they have “no choice” but to abort when they are scared and alone and pregnant?? How is it choice when you feel like you have no choice?
Caring. You should try it sometime.
Robert Berger @ 5:16 PM,
Do you also feel that tax-fraud, stealing groceries, medicines, auto-theft, are all justifiable for the poverty-stricken?
Your justification for abortion “only if the world were perfect” is no better than any other excuse you’ve given.
You present an unrelated hypothetical situation to justify your position. That’s like saying “If only my family were perfect, I’d get my degree”, or “I’d lose weight”. You are removing the woman’s responsibility for her baby’s life by saying her choice rests on circumstances beyond her control. You are indirectly defending a woman’s right to kill her pre-born baby by being pro-choice yourself, right??? How about telling them that they have the option to keep the baby? Why are you afraid to discuss the issue of abortion with a woman?
***
Robert Berger,
It’s not that I actually WANT to see women raped, but shouldn’t that be the choice of the rapist?
It’s not that I actually WANT to see Jews exterminated, but shouldn’t that be the right of the NAZI’s?
It’s not that I actually WANT to see muggers kill their victims, but shouldn’t that be the right of the mugger?
We all know the answers. No person has the right to violate the fundamental rights of another person. It simply is NOT AN OPTION (CHOICE).
What drives a man such as yourself to defend the institution that slaughters babies in what ought to be the sanctity of their mother’s wombs? Answer that. What motivates you?
Gerard, I love your posts. Just had to say that!
No, I wouldn’t have “wanted” you to have an abortion, but I would want you to have that option. That would be your decision, and no one else’s.
Okay, Robert…why WOULDN’T you want Carla to have had an abortion?
From what you have expressed here, it’s absolutely terrible to be brought up in poverty- so much so that it’s better to be dead than to live that way. So why wouldn’t you “want” Carla to have had abortions with her children? Why not, Robert?
And if she had come to you for advice, what kind of advice would you have given her?
Bethany,
Thanks. Right back atcha ;-)
Comparing abortion to rape, exterminating Jews and mugging is just plain ridiculous.
Your intellectual dishonesty is truly pathetic.
Those are completely different and genuinely
immoral actions, unlike abortion which is done for completely different and non-malicious reasons. Abortion is done from necessity and desperation, not malice.
No one “needs” to rape a woman or to exterminate jews. Abortion is a totally different matter. When will you anti-choicers learn?
When will you learn that you can’t force women to bear children against their will ?
Robert, your ignorance would be laughable if it weren’t so pitiful.
No one “needs” to rape a woman or to exterminate jews. Abortion is a totally different matter. When will you anti-choicers learn?
Robert Berger, when will you learn? No one “needs” to have an abortion!
And don’t you realize that by saying that any woman “needs” abortion, you are pretty much removing “choice” from the equation?
I need oxygen. I don’t really have much of a choice whether I want to have oxygen or not. If I choose to deprive myself of oxygen, I will die.
I need water. If I deprive myself of water for too long, I will die. I don’t really have a choice.
I need food. If I deprive myself of nutrition for too long, I will die. I don’t really have a choice.
If a woman “needs” abortion, she doesn’t really have much of a choice whether she should choose abortion or life, does she? Where is the “choice” you speak of, Robert, in your belief system which says that women “need” abortion?
Robert,
I’m not trying to be mean here, but you need to know why no one takes anything you say seriously. You REFUSE to address the issue of what the unborn is. You refuse. THAT is the central issue for the pro-lifer. None of your “arguments” make any sense whatsoever if the unborn is a human being worthy of rights. They are always question-begging, assuming that the unborn is not human which is EXACTLY what the pro-life side claims.
So in the course of normal debate, people usually try and address the concerns of the other side. You have never once done that. If the unborn is not human, no justification for abortion is necessary. If the unborn are human, no justification for abortion is adequate.
Sure. According to anti-choicers like you, the unborn are human beings with rights -UNTIL THEY ARE BORN !!!! Then, you couldn’t care less about them.
And please don’t give me all this disingenuous and self-serving nonsense about how much conservatives allegedly contribute to charities and about your alleged efforts to help pregnant women. That’s all garbage.
None of this works or really helps the abortion
situation. None of this stops abortion or ever will. And making abortion illegal only causes a rise in their numbers. It’s totally counterproductive.
And I repeat- It’s infinitely weorse to be born into poverty that to be aborted.
It’s You who are always begging the question.
When all else fails, just make up a bunch of lies about the opposition and ignore the issues at hand. – Robert Berger
Robert, please answer my questions at 9:20.
And please don’t give me all this disingenuous and self-serving nonsense about how much conservatives allegedly contribute to charities and about your alleged efforts to help pregnant women. That’s all garbage.
Why is it garbage? Because you say so? Sorry, Robert, but we need a little more than just your say so!
It’s infinitely weorse to be born into poverty that to be aborted.
Prove it! I challenge you to find a poor person who tells you that they wish that someone else would kill them BASED ON the fact that they are poor.
If it truly is better to be aborted than to be born into poverty, then why don’t you advocate killing poor children who are already born to save them from MORE misery?
“According to anti-choicers like you, the unborn are human beings with rights -UNTIL THEY ARE BORN !!!!”
I would LOVE to see the quote where I say this.
But again Robert, you don’t address the issue. Suppose not a single pro-lifer gives a crap about people once they are born. How does it follow that you can kill them when they are not born? You REFUSE to address whether or not the unborn are people- you obfuscate by then talking about what happens when they are born.
“And please don’t give me all this disingenuous and self-serving nonsense about how much conservatives allegedly contribute to charities and about your alleged efforts to help pregnant women. That’s all garbage.”
This is a nice blow-off and all, but it has nothing to do with the humanity of the unborn.
“None of this stops abortion or ever will. And making abortion illegal only causes a rise in their numbers. It’s totally counterproductive.”
Robert, how many times have you said this and how many times have people made the same claim about not being able to stop rape by making it illegal and how many times have you ignored it?
“It’s You who are always begging the question. ”
Robert, you clearly don’t know what this phrase means. To “beg the question” is a logical fallacy in which you assume what you need to prove. Whenever you talk about poverty etc etc, you assume that the unborn are not human because you claim that the answer is to kill them. So let me ask you this. May I kill my two year old if I lose my lob and she will be poor for the rest of her life? The answer you will give is no. Why? Because she is a human being, and we do not kill human beings. Now, may I kill an unborn? No, because it is a human being, and it does not matter if it will be born into poverty because you don’t kill innocent human beings. Or can you, Robert? I don’t know, you refuse to address the issue! So is the unborn human? How the unborn is treated after it is born has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not it is human before it is born.
“It’s infinitely weorse to be born into poverty that to be aborted”
How in the world do you know this? And how many times have people who have been born into poverty like X and Bethany refuted this crap line of yours? This is such an ignorant, bigoted statement. Is money the root of all happiness? Is that where your values lie? With the almighty dollar? Because according to you, without a pre-set amount of money as determined by you, one’s life is crap, completely worthless.
Robert Berger: “Sure. According to anti-choicers like you, the unborn are human beings with rights -UNTIL THEY ARE BORN !!!! Then, you couldn’t care less about them.”
That’s news to me. Are you saying someone here has argued that it should be illegal to kill unborn children but legal to kill your BORN children? Because that’s the only way you could make that claim, Robert.
“And please don’t give me all this disingenuous and self-serving nonsense about how much conservatives allegedly contribute to charities and about your alleged efforts to help pregnant women. That’s all garbage.”
Translation: “Please don’t refute my silly assertion with facts and statistics, because that’s just not fair! They contradict the argument I have in my Pro-Choice Playbook here! It’s garbage because I say it is!”
Robert,
I think you need to get out more often and experience the goodness in people. Visit a nursing home or a soup kitchen. You’ll find people who are poor and happy.
Comparing abortion to rape, exterminating Jews and mugging is just plain ridiculous.
Your intellectual dishonesty is truly pathetic.
Those are completely different and genuinely
immoral actions, unlike abortion which is done for completely different and non-malicious reasons. Abortion is done from necessity and desperation, not malice.
No one “needs” to rape a woman or to exterminate jews. Abortion is a totally different matter. When will you anti-choicers learn?
When will you learn that you can’t force women to bear children against their will ?
Posted by: Robert Berger at December 1, 2009 9:36 AM
Hitler saw the extermination of the Jews as necessary for the good of Germany because he judged the Jews as inferior.
Robert Berger sees abortion as necessary for the good of the world, because he judges the poor as inferior.
How are these completely different?
Robert,
Fine. I’m intellectually dishonest and pathetic. But enough about me. Let’s talk about you.
Your screaming and hand-waving, arm-flapping at 9:36 was a convenient, albeit transparent, dodge.
I asked you to explain for me what drives a man like you to militate for the ‘right’ of a woman to slaughter her defenseless child in what ought to be the sanctity of her womb.
Man up and answer the question.
As for this:
“Comparing abortion to rape, exterminating Jews and mugging is just plain ridiculous.”
Well now, that depends on whose ox (or baby, jew, woman) is being gored, doesn’t it?
The mugger, rapist, NAZI, would take exception with you on their ‘need’ to do what they do.
Of course, I believe that you stand on more solid ground than they do, being comprised of the bones of no less than 50 million babies whose slaughter you militate for here. Makes for some solid footing.
But I would love an answer to my original question.
Janet,
I think that most of the thinking behind aborting the poor stems from a black heart that is at once afflicted with no hope for the future, and the desire to not be responsible for issues of social justice.
For the upwardly mobile, the aboriginals tend to spoil the view. It’s really a horrible sort of spiritual imprisonment to militate for slaughtering poor babies rather than educating them. That would require hope, which requires faith and love for its sustenance.
I suspect that Robert can’t/won’t answer my question because he lacks sufficient light to see clearly enough to do so.
We should all keep him in our prayers.
Gerard Nadal,
You are right. We should pray for the change of hearts and minds of all who support abortion, and for those who suffer because of abortion. I found a prayer on line “Intercessions for Those Involved in Abortion”. It’s long so I’ll just link to it.
http://www.hopeafterabortion.com/prayers/index.cfm?page=involved
God bless.
Just happened upon here and wanted to comment. My birth mother was very poor and mentally ill. In fact she was institutionalized most of her adult life. She had already aborted two babies prior to being pregnant with me. The doctors told her parents there was no other option – her babies would be as “sick” as her. When it came time for my abortion, her father stepped in after being told by a pastor that what he was allowing was murder. I was born and adopted into a loving family. My birth mom would become pregnant again – that baby was also allowed to live – and she was also adopted into a loving family. Both of us are mothers now – me of 4 (one of whom is adopted) and my half sister has 3. Neither one of us are “sick” like our birth mother. I look at my children every single day and THANK GOD I was given a chance to live and become a mom myself. God is good! All 4 of my children say they will adopt someday and fight to protect the unborn. My husband says this is the “torch” I am passing on to them. We are in the process of adopting again. There ARE people who want these children. I will continue to pray for hearts and minds to be changed. My life story is but one of many that point to the value and potential of ALL human life – born and unborn. Thanks for letting me share. I hope this made sense – it’s very early!
Susan, thank you so much for sharing your story!
I’m so sorry that you have lost two siblings that way…but I’m so thankful that that pastor stepped in and saved your life….it is good that you and your sister were able to be born and grow up and have learned to appreciate life and to help others who need loving parents!
Thank you Susan!! You are a light in the darkness!!
Thank God that Pastor stepped in. :) And thanks for sharing your story, Susan.