Pro-lifers launch graphic abortion pickets at 100 churches in Ventura, CA
I wrote in February that stalwart pro-lifer Todd Bullis was soon to spearhead what he calls the Church Project, an effort to educate congregants of Ventura, CA, churches of the reality of abortion through signs of graphic abortion images.
Todd reported in an extended version of the video below that of 100 area churches, only 10 currently support pregnancy care centers. Todd’s mission is to rouse churches in his Jerusalem – where he lives – to become more proactive in opposing abortion.
Todd launched his effort this past Sunday at his own former church, Reality Ventura, a mega-church, where he had previously picketed with nongraphic signs and also met several times with church leaders….
“Reality.” Ironic
Todd reported in the extended video his group was surprisingly well received by all other than – unsurprisingly – staff, most of whom attempted to ignore him except for 1 rude pastor, Billy Hunter….
Todd and his pro-life friends plan to picket one church every Sunday, which will take him 2 years. Go with God, brothers and sisters. We pray your efforts bear fruit and awaken the apathetic church in your ministry area. Todd’s website is AbortionWoes.com.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
More power to him. I hope it works. We need to do something to wake people up.
Anne,
Obviously you are extremely sick and ignorant. The reason people do this is to make people aware of what abortion actually is. So many people, like you, like to think it is a magical process where one minute your pregnant and the next your not. These images are in no way sexual- they show a murdered baby-murdered by a woman’s choice. You obviously need to educate yourself on this whole topic and until you do, I suggest not making anymore obscene comments about it- you just look like a moron.
To my Pro-Life comrades, I guess it wouldn’t be a fight if there weren’t ignorant people out there….
@Anne: You know that doesn’t make any sense, right? Unless you’re alledging that people who make graphic, bloody films about other human rights abuses like slavery and the holocaust are also getting off on that?
My posts were removed? Great. I guess we can’t even have a mature, civil discussion here.
Anne,
Go ahead. Your mature, civil comments will stay. The rest will be deleted.
Oh and Anne?
I thought what you wrote was disgusting!
If you are proabortion then the photos depict the end result of what you support. Mangled babies. Own it.
During this exhortation at Reality Church I had 3 different wounded Christians who were still suffering from the pain of their abortion come up to me and tell me their story and gave me a hug and thanked me so much for being their that day.
How can we convince the world that abortion is murder when our own pastors will not even preach on it. Reality just preached on how we need to help Haiti, about the sex trade and now how we need to show the love of Christ to homosexuals but were is the sermon on murdering the unborn?
I am not picketing the church I am Exhorting it just like Jeremiah did in Jeremiah 7. If we can not shed light on the issue of murdering babies at church and in church than we are in bad shape.
Last Sunday has so richly blessed me. When a Christian woman tells me she had 6 abortions and gives me a hug and thanks me for standing up against this murder, well that means a lot to me.
How Great a God I serve that can forgive this woman, that even after she sees these pictures can give me a hug and thank me. It brings me to tears and makes me want to know our God even more.
My son told me today that when he was younger he always wanted to be a warrior, a knight is shinning armor. He said Dad I am now that warrior for Christ and he thanked me and told me he loves me. Micah is 17 years old and I am so proud of him.
Please pray for me and my family.
My sister told me of an acquaintance who chastised her for posting stuff about stopping abortion on her facebook page because someone “they both know” had an abortion years ago and it really hurt her to see that stuff posted.
My sister’s response was “all the more reason to speak out before another woman goes through life with that kind of hurt!”
We can’t let fear of upsetting others keep us silent as children are sacrificed on the altar of self. Our society is obsessed with “self” and we kill in the pursuit of it. How can we as God’s people be silent while children are mangled and mother’s are forever hurt?
I am praying for you Todd! Keeping speaking out!
Hello again Todd!!
I will pray for you.
I too know the joy of healing in Christ after abortion and will hug you too when we meet someday!
Stay strong being that voice for the voiceless and also being there for the hurting men and women that have been involved in abortion.
You and your son are both warriors!! I am proud of you!
Todd – I still don’t support you, but be safe out there and hope all is well.
Praise God that these brave men and women are doing this – this needs to be done! As Fr. Frank Pavone of Priests For Life has said many times, “American will not end abortion until America SEES abortion.” (paraphrase) I know Fr. Frank and his apostolate has been instrumental in bringing forth the horror of abortion with graphic images, but this is what America and the whole world needs to see. It’s time the entire Christian world, Catholic and non-Catholic, unite in spreading the Gospel of Life! I will pray for these soldiers – they need all of our prayers because they’re already being persecuted as the article stated.
Posted by: Todd Bullis at March 25, 2010 4:15 PM
——-
Todd – more prayers here for your ministry.
If you encounter more post-abortive women who want to stand for Christ and the unborn – send them to Carla, and encourage them to send their testimony to Operation Outcry.
Thanks all. Hey Chris send me a link to your ministry and i will put you on my web site. http://www.abortionwoes.com
“It’s time the entire Christian world, Catholic and non-Catholic, unite in spreading the Gospel of Life”
Not going to happen. The Episcopalians, United Church of Christ, Unitarians, some Methodists, some Lutherans are pro-choice and that’s not going to change. Sorry. Oh, and Reformed Judaism is also pro-choice.
Question – will this post disappear?
If every church in the world was pro choice it would not make a difference. Those who are called by God to do Gods work will be faithful. I have seen Gods hand move and it now takes very little faith for me to follow him. God has more than proven himself to me and I know that he is able. For me it is no longer an issue of faith but of obedience. I know God is working and he will complete his work.
“The Episcopalians, United Church of Christ, Unitarians, some Methodists, some Lutherans are pro-choice and that’s not going to change. ”
Another common thread to these groups is that they have all fallen away from the gospel in other areas.
Of course,as Todd says, it doesn’t matter if every church in the world were pro-choice. We would still stand for truth.
I can hear the applause of heaven my friend.
Todd:
I campaigned with the very pro-life Len Munsil here in Arizona when he ran for Governor against the very ungodly pro-abort Janet Napolitano.
Most of the churches Len approached for support showed a lot of cowardice and I was awoken to the fact that the major reason we still have legalized abortion is directly because of the church.
I want to do what you do here in Phoenix. Please contact me at HisMan@cox.net
Also, please list my web site on your web site:
http://www.Ixoye.Name
I praise God for you Phil.
I look at it this way, there is a house on fire and all the people are yelling at the house say your on fire your on fire and I am running to the fire station telling the fire department there is a fire but even the firemen dont care. Our churches should be the fire departments that seek out evil and defend the week. We are failing as the church.
(I know God is calling all of us to do something, not everyone has to run to the church, I know that.)
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 25, 2010 5:13 PM
“Todd – I still don’t support you, but be safe out there and hope all is well.”
——————————————————
RINO,
Obviously Todd Bullis does not require your approval, encouragement or blessing.
I thank GOD for that!
Please let us know when all the other ills of society have been cured by your preaching and church going.
If it helps you feel good about yourself then by all means avail yourself of every opportunity to do so.
I am sure your reward awaits you.
If not here, then in the hereafter.
I am curious though.
How many people have been introduced to Jesus as a result of your ministrations?
How many people have been healed and/or delivered from demons as a direct result of your ministrations?
How many people have you taken into your home and clothed and fed?
How many people have you visited in prison?
Have many people have you given as much as a cup of water in the Name of Jesus?
How many children are alive today because you provided assistance to pregnant woman in need?
Todd Bullis,
Feel free to answer these questions as well.
RINO can probably use some encouragement.
yor bro ken
Picket churches? Hey, after all, a “prolifer” entered Dr. Tiller’s church and shot him dead.
Now, your turn to tell me “abortion is worse”. Get some psychiatric help.
I believe it was wrong to kill Tiller, I do not brake the law. Let me guess Jody, your a Christian who is pro choice right? You think its wrong to kill a born person but its ok to kill an unborn one right. I believe that if abortion is not wrong than nothing is wrong and in my book abortion is wrong.
Dear Jody you reminded me of a famous quote.
“The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people.”
Martin Luther King Jr.
Apparently Jody is not familiar with the First Amendment.
Todd,
If I get anywhere near Ventura on a Sunday I will look you up. All hands on deck Micah!
I could always use the help. God is good.
See truth – and if I was in Ventura, I would picket Todd’s house – I mean, if he spent all the time that he was picketing, if he spent that at the crisis pregnancy center, the world would be better off. And now that we get to play morality police in regards to deciding where people should spend their time and money – I feel totally justified!
In fact, then I’d picket Todd’s church, because I don’t think they do enough on abortion – they should do every sermon for a year on it, and I’m going to hurl plastic dolls with fake blood onto their sidewalks.
This is FUN!
Dear Ex-GOP
You might want to read Matthew 12:36.
“But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.”
Your words a careless and I know that you would not do what you are talking about.
You remind me of the pharisees telling Jesus that he cant heal on the sabbath.
Dear Ex-GOP you do what ever God is calling you to do and I will do what God is calling me to do.
If God has given you a word for me lets hear it. If this is just your opinion than I refer back to Matthew 12:36.
I deal with guys like you all the time, they are most always involved in some way in leadership of the church and like you have never spent any time in the pro-life battle. From our past talks you have told me that you will not even watch the online abortion and ask God to share his heart on the matter.
In the last few months I have been called.
1. Anti Church
2. Anti God
3. Your not serving the Real God
4. You are Anti Christ
5.You are in sin.
All of these things I have been called by church leaders.
People who have had abortions who see me in front of their church say these type of things to me.
1.I thank God for you.
2.You are doing great work.
3.Our Church needs this
4.You are a prophet sent to us
5.Thank you so much.
6.Keep up the Good fight
7.How can I help
8.You are so right
Ex-GOP If you ever do come to Ventura I would walk you around my town and in less than one day show you the hand of God soften hearts, open eyes and bring people to repentance.
I love the bride of Christ and I am willing to stand up for it when God calls me to.
Todd – no man, we’re brothers – I mean, we’re both just using our free speech here!
I’m just saying, I dig you. In fact, I’m thinking of printing up massive signs of a poor guy down the street in my town and showing up in front of a church – “Your calling is wrong!” I’ll say – “Turn away and do what I say – I KNOW YOUR CALLING BETTER THAN YOU!”.
We can all be little drama queens, looking for attention, telling people how they are spending their time wrong.
It’s just too bad Billy Graham wasn’t still speaking -we could go yell at him. “Hey Billy – I know Jesus says to preach the good news, but seriously, I haven’t heard you say anything about abortion on stage. You jerk. Here’s a dead baby to look at”.
Seriously though – you are the one who should be worried. Every Sunday for a couple of years? Let’s say that is an hour of prep and an hour of protest. Two hours times 50 a year – 200 hours that you could be helping people?
Hey, don’t step on my free speech and throw out Biblical verses when you yourself pick and choose which ones make you feel important and needed.
Everyone join in – let’s all yell at other Christians on how they spend their money and time! This rocks.
Ex-GOP, should we give the good news before or after a baby dies by an abortion?
Should we give the good news before or after a woman is emotionally wounded forever?
Should we give the good news before or after Satan celebrates?
You obviously think abortion is an important topic or you would not waste so much time posting here. Why don’t you stop posting then and get out and give the good news?
I think speaking out about abortion goes hand in hand with the good news of Jesus Christ. The abortion industry offers only death but the Son of God offers life eternal.
There is no free speach as far as God is concerned.
RINO,
You make a great Dumbocrat. Let me know if you need some signs to picket with.
10 I hear many whispering,
“Terror on every side!
Report him! Let’s report him!”
All my friends
are waiting for me to slip, saying,
“Perhaps he will be deceived;
then we will prevail over him
and take our revenge on him.”
11 But the LORD is with me like a mighty warrior;
so my persecutors will stumble and not prevail.
They will fail and be thoroughly disgraced;
their dishonor will never be forgotten.
12 O LORD Almighty, you who examine the righteous
and probe the heart and mind,
let me see your vengeance upon them,
for to you I have committed my cause.
13 Sing to the LORD!
Give praise to the LORD!
He rescues the life of the needy
from the hands of the wicked.
Jeremiah 20:10-13
Hey Ex-GOP maybe you will like this video better. This is what we do on Wednesdays in Ventura and fridays in oxnard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOvyaUPHgy8
(*sigh*)
Yes, EGV… let’s equivocate ourselves into mental knots, to the point where we’re no more or less upset at murder then we are at denying someone “free” health care, where objecting to a political plan for social security is on a moral par with protesting the Shoah, and the like.
You seriously think that “calling yourself a Christian” immunizes one from error… or, on that note, immunizes one from all rebuke? You seriously think that those who wish to wake up the sleeping Body of Christ are wasting their time (or worse, doing wrong)? I seriously don’t understand you, here.
If Christianity is to mean anything at all (above and beyond a religious-looking alternative to the Moose lodge), it needs to be “salt and light” to the world; it needs to rebuke sinners–especially if those sinners claim to be Christian–and fight against injustice.
Seriously: what do you think the Church’s purpose *is*? To pat each other on the back, hand-pick a few sentimental, non-challenging Bible verses, and have coffee and donuts every Sunday, after Mass (or service, or whatever), when babies are being murdered? Your blase, “let them do what they want, and don’t bother them” approach to the culture of death astounds me, even now.
It’s just too bad Billy Graham wasn’t still speaking -we could go yell at him. “Hey Billy – I know Jesus says to preach the good news, but seriously, I haven’t heard you say anything about abortion on stage. You jerk. Here’s a dead baby to look at”.
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 26, 2010 9:10 AM
http://www.billygraham.org/SpiritualHelp_Article_Index.asp?MajorTopicID=3&MinorTopicID=17
Q. Our teenage daughter just told us she’s pregnant. I’ve never been in favor of abortion, but I’m beginning to wonder. What would you advise?
A. Billy Graham writes, “My prayer is that you and your daughter will not end the life of the little child who is growing within her.”
Q: I’m single and pregnant and don’t know what to do. My boyfriend abandoned me when he found out I was pregnant, and I’ve never gotten along very well with my parents. I’ll probably get an abortion, although I don’t want to. Pray I’ll do the right thing. — J.B.
Two wrongs don’t make a right (as the old saying goes), and I pray you won’t compound your problems by making another wrong decision about your future.
Yes, it was wrong for you to get pregnant—but it also would be wrong for you to end the life of the little child who is growing inside you. I know it’s common today to think of abortion as a simple answer to an inconvenient problem—but it is actually a far more serious issue. Your child isn’t simply a mass of tissue; he or she is a human being in God’s eyes. God told Jeremiah, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart” (Jeremiah 1:5).
Oh, and his son Franklin:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/dec/08120208.html
RIVERSIDE, California, December 2, 2008 (LIfeSiteNews.com) – Franklin Graham, the son of evangelical leader Billy Graham, stated that “abortion is murder” while preaching on Sunday evening at the Harvest Christian Fellowship megachurch of Southern California evangelist Greg Laurie.
Graham opened his remarks by telling his audience that “we’ve been crippled by sin,” echoing his father’s statement that “the spiritual condition of man is at the root of the abortion issue. … It is sin that produces the problem of most unwanted pregnancies, as well as the misbelief that women have a “right” to take the lives of unborn babies.”
After considering a variety of sinful behavior, from lying and stealing to bearing false witness, Graham zeroed in on the sin of murder and emphasized that abortion is a form of murder.
“You say, ‘Well come on, Franklin. This is California. We’re kind of a liberal state, but they’ll still put you in jail for murder around here.’ No, they don’t,” Graham said, “not for the murder of abortion.”
“There’s some of you here tonight who are guilty, guilty of murder,” Graham challenged.
“And there are some of you men … you’re guilty because you’ve approved of what your girlfriend has done or what your wife has done or your sister has done,” he said. “You’ve approved it, and you’re guilty too.”
Graham concluded his message by telling the listeners that by true repentance even the sin of abortion will be forgiven by God.
“When you come before God in Heaven, you are crippled by sin. But when you come to God and accept His salvation,” Graham said, “He doesn’t see your sins. He sees the blood of His son that covers you.”
——————————-
So, um, why would we be criticizing Graham again?
ExGOP- you seem to think its ok for churches to pursue different missions, right?
Soooooo
Who are you to criticize Todd’s mission?
I for one think its needed. Lots of Christians sing their worship songs and highlight their Bibles and shuffle through liturgies without wanting to think about the defenseless unborn among us.
True Christians should not fear examining their consciences. We should not fear to take an honest look at criticism, especially criticism from other Christians.
Sorry for the double post.
One more thing about churches, a praise report, if you will.
At my parish we had a special Mass last night for Pro-Life intentions. The day was chosen for its significance, as yesterday was the Feast of The Annunciation.
The prayers and readings were Scriptures that centered around the events of Christ’s miraculous conception.
The sermon was a knock-out, centered on how each of us starts life when Jesus did- at conception, and how we need to pray and work so that all human life might be honored and protected.
The children sang all the chants and led the hymns, and sounded like angels.
The collection went to a local Pro-Life clinic, which provides full medical assistance to women and their children.
There was great fellowship during a reception afterwards, in which several local Pro-Life groups displayed their work in various booths.
It was a great night, and I’m so thankful to be part of such a community. God was given a ton of praise!
I am familiar with the first amendment. There is also responsibility involved. There is no reason in this instance to protest at churches. Those individuals also have the right to worship under the first amendment. Just because they aren’t supporting pregnancy centers they get picketed? Once again, you people are downright sick in the head.
Jody: the man who killed Tiller was NOT PRO LIFE! He was a mentally ill individual that wanted to take things into his own hands instead of letting a peaceful group of pro lifers use legal means to get Tiller’s business shut down.
None of the pro lifers condone what happened.
NO PRO LIFER that I personally know would use violence to end abortion. Education (real science,yes we use SCIENCE about the humanity), offers of help (financial, whatever is needed) and prayers.
Artemis writes (March 25 @ 5:21): “Reformed Judaism is pro-choice.”
Is there justification in Judaism for the practice of abortion? As it happens the matter has been examined and is exposed as a fabrication. An excellent essay on the matter is linked below.
For those whose busy schedules do not permit a reading of the link here is an attempt to consolidate the highlights of the ten-page essay.
In Judaism and Abortion: The Hijacking of a Tradition author Richard Nadler undertakes an examination of current view, held largely by reform Judaism, “that the fetus lacks an independent, juridical personality in rabbinic law.”
The source for this conclusion is attributed primarily to the book: Marital Relations, Birth Control and Abortion in Jewish Law by David M. Feldman. The edition of the book that Nadler references contains a “glowing endorsement from Dr. Alan F. Guttmacher.” Nadler goes on to say that “in the journals of Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionist Judaism, one is hard pressed to find an article on abortion that fails to reference Feldman’s tome, or to build on his conclusions.” He continues, “it is the only book on the topic that most English speaking Jews have ever seen.”
Through his own independent survey of Jewish laws and traditions Nadler deconstructs the basis of Feldman’s conclusions. He goes on to say “…in one respect Feldman is correct: There is no single “firm and direct” basis in Jewish law forbidding abortion on demand. In fact there are ten. Orthodox authorities have forbidden or restricted abortion on the following bases:
1. Retzicah—abortion is murder.
2. Abizraihu—that abortion, by destroying a hereditary line, is akin to murder, sharing some of its “appurtenances,” or consequences.
3. Pr’u ur’vu—that abortion violates the obligation to people the earth with God’s servants.
4. Hash-hatat zera—that abortion unlawfully wastes male seed, which contains potential human life.
5. Chabbala—that abortion is the wrongful wounding of the mother, the fetus, or both.
6. Nezikim—that abortion unlawfully deprives the parents of a value in property.
7. Bal tash’chith—that abortion unlawfully deprives the community of something of value.
8. Pikuah nefesh—that the affirmative responsibility to protect and preserve human life applies to the fetus.
9. Chalell Olov Shabbat Echad Kiday SheYsihmor Shabbatot Harbeh—that the developing human life of the fetus requires its preservation, overriding other laws, as in the case of “violating on Sabbath so that many Sabbaths may be kept.”
10. Siyog—that abortion is banned preventatively, as a hedge against other sexual sins that might flow from it.
Nadler then goes on to summarize each of the above. He continues further on “…the falsification of Jewish teaching on abortion is the result of a systematic deconstruction undertaken by David Feldman and other non-Orthodox scholars from the middle of the 20th century.” “For Reform Jewish leaders the deconstruction was simple: These Jews rejected the authority of Orthodox teaching.”
Feldman concludes: “Absent Jewish theology, the progressive scholar might deconstruct Judaism’s magnificent 5,700 year pro-life tradition into a squabble among advocates of conflicting theories and conflicting punishments. Adjudicating among these with standards individualistic and humanistic rather than sacerdotal and covenantal, he might eventually conclude that Judaism had no pro-life tradition at all. And his views, disseminated through the seminaries of liberal Judaism, might inform a whole generation of rabbis and their congregants.” “That is the point that most—not all—American Jews have reached in the abortion debate. But that is not what traditional Judaism teaches.”
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3798/is_200601/ai_n17186907/?tag=content;col1
Mary Ann – I think I’m justified criticizing Todd’s mission – I mean, he’s justified in criticizing other churches missions. I guess we’re all justified!
Elisabeth – But hey, are the Graham’s doing enough? We need to ask Todd – because he’s got a list I think of different Christians and churches and if he deems them to be doing a good enough job on the causes he has – so I agree, Billy and his kid have said what they have – but I saw Billy speak once, and he didn’t even mention abortion. Bring on the signs!
Paladin – you are right – let’s shutter all churches and go door to door to stop people from having sex. Then we can get rid of abortion once and for all.
I enjoyed the sigh though.
Look, I’ve read about some folks like this before. Some guy, way back in the day went around talking about how people needed to turn around their lives and live a better way. But there were these other guys like Todd who were really interested in making sure that this guy did exactly what they wanted, and followed the same laws and did things the right days, and spent time and resources the right way.
Pretty good book – enjoyable read.
Jerry,
Forgive me for not including Judaism in my earlier comment about the need for uniting in the fight for the sanctity of human life. I should have written Judeo-Christian. I’m sorry – it was not intentional. As far as everything that I’ve read, (and I’m no scholar or theologian!) Judaism traditionally has taught that abortion is sin/murder. I’ve watched the March For Life in D.C. for many years and have seen a Jewish presence there. The reason I wrote about the need for all Christians to unite is that Christianity is so fragmented – over 30,000 different denominations I think? To the best of my knowledge, it’s only the Catholic Church that has always taught (and cannot change it’s teaching) that abortion is sin/murder.
Oh, and Artemis, I’m not sure if your question about this post “disappearing” was directed at me or not. If so, I’m not disappearing anytime soon. :)
EGV, you can’t possibly be as obtuse as you are pretending to be…
Oh, wait… yeah, you probably are.
Oh Elisabeth – I’m sorry – but rather than throwing out an insult, it would be beneficial for society for you to actually type something worthwhile instead of just calling somebody obtuse.
Is not Todd saying that having a Christian mission is not enough – but they need to have a mission that meets his standards or he’ll bring pictures and stand outside your church?
Maybe if Jesus came back now, Todd could heckle him because he’d probably be hanging out with the wrong types of sinners, and not contributing enough to where Todd wants Him to contribute.
Todd – I went to Church this morning, and I hope that is okay with you. The pastor did NOT mention abortion today – please don’t bring fake blood and throw it at us.
Dear Ex-GOP
Are you ok? Sounds like your falling off the deep end. Were do you get this fake blood and throwing it at us stuff? I have never done anything like that. I also have never said anything about peoples missions. I believe that everyone should do what God is calling them to do. God has called me to Exhort Christians to wake up and stop ignoring that 4000 babies a day that are being murdered in the USA.
Is God calling you to defame me, tell lies about what I am doing and so on? is that your calling is Ex-GOP?
Just wondering.
Sorry – no throwing blood. I’ll rephrase.
Todd – I do not believe that you believe that everyone should do what God is calling them to do. You believe that everyone should do what you think they should do – thus, you bring signs outside of churches that don’t do what you want. Says so right in your earlier posts – hardly any churches support the pregnancy care centers, so you are throwing a fit. For you to say that you support them doing what they think they are called to do is flat out wrong – you seem to believe the opposite.
Apologize for the reference to you throwing fake blood – you show bloody pictures of aborted babies to church going folks including children. Yes, that is much better.
Not going crazy – just not one of the members of your fan club. I’m sure you are a great guy, and I don’t doubt your good intentions. I just think things have gotten mixed up and twisted in your new found fame.
Part of the problem here Ex Gop is that most Christians don’t think God has called them to do anything. Its not about what Christians think that is important, its what God thinks that is important.
Here is the Bottom line. The Church has the power to end abortion and it does so little to make that happen. God has given the Church all it needs to end abortion and most pastors will not even preach about it let alone support a Christian Crises pregnancies Center.
A great Man once said that “Pastors have every legal right to conceal the true nature of abortion and we every legal right (and Biblical obligation, Eph. 5:11) to expose it.”
I am and I pray more Christens will start to expose Abortion for what it is. The murder of a child.
Dear Ex Gop, I wish you you had a much better argument. I would love to be mistaken here and spend my weekends on the boat wake boarding or golfing but no I spend my Sundays showing Christians what abortion really is and the church leadership hates it.
Yesterday, last Sunday a pastor came over to me and sprayed me in the eyes with vinegar and than turned the water hose on me until the cops showed up. The cops saw him assaulting me and the cops told me they wrote him up and now he has to appear before a judge for assault.
So Ex Gop if you were making any sense here that might help but trying to tell me that God has everyone were he wants them and that God is happy with the Christians when it come to the killing of babies here in America? Well that is just crazy talk.
The Church and Christians and people like you Ex GOP needs to rethink this issue of Killing Bibies and maybe do something about it. Have you even watched the video yet? Have you done anything yet?
You never answered my question earlier so I will pose it to you again. Is God calling you to be my anti -fan or you doing this out of a devilish sense of Justice defending the church’s record on abortion.
Todd – let me boil it down for you.
If everyone became a Christian and read their Bibles and followed the virtues of the Bible, we’d have no abortion.
I think it is great if a church is doing everything they can to convert people to Christianity.
Telling a church that what they are doing isn’t good enough is sometimes justified. If so, make darn sure you’re doing it in the right, Biblical fashion. Approach them – tell them of their sin.
Even then, Biblically, you are supposed to just leave them alone at that point (if they are from God, you are just fighting God at that point).
I think “callings” are funny things – there are certain things I have felt “called” to do. I also think there are things I’ve wanted to do pridefully, and wanted to be called to do it, but it was out of pride. I don’t feel called to do anything for or against you. What I do think is that you are going about it wrong, and based on my knowledge of the Bible, I think it’s good to let you know that.
Haven’t seen the video yet of the spraying – will watch and comment if anything comes to me.
EGV wrote:
Paladin – you are right – let’s shutter all churches and go door to door to stop people from having sex. Then we can get rid of abortion once and for all.
(?!?) EGV, I really have to echo Todd’s question: are you losing it? I realize that you were trying to reply to many opponents at once–and that can frustrate almost anyone–but this comment of yours was downright bizarre!
Perhaps I might gently remind you that sex is *good*, and that babies are *good*, and that babies are a natural result of sex (and not a “disorder”, “mistake”, or what-have-you), and that this is why sex should be reserved for the sacred marital covenant (and not simply used as a trivial recreation, to alternate with bowling nights). Who, exactly, do you think is (on the Christian pro-life side) advocating an eradication of sex? You might as well accuse us who abhor axe-murderers of wanting to ban axes…
I enjoyed the sigh though.
Mm-hmm. I suspect you meant, “I enjoyed the chance to throw yet more snark.”
You *are* a Christian, right? Then seriously, EGV: why this vacillation between “discomfort with abortion” and “carrying the water for the abortion-tolerant movement”, on your part?
Paladin –
Right back at you – You *are* a Christian, right? Then seriously, Paladin: why are you so flippant towards people picking Christian churches, creating divisions and public spectacles, and belittling believers and pastors?
Look, I don’t like abortion, but I’m not cool with shooting abortion docs. I don’t like abortion but I’m not going to kidnap a woman on her way to a clinic.
I don’t like abortion but I’m not going to print big signs and go outside of a church preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and thumb my nose at them and tell them they aren’t following my message. It’s BS and the fact that people don’t see it is a bit scary. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again – a lot of things can become an idol – and if somebody’s anger towards abortion becomes bigger in importance than the message of Christ – well, we have an idol on our hands.
Paladin – have you been picketing churches in your neighborhood? A lot of people seem to be saying he’s a saint, but how many people are following to action? My guess is that most know better.
EGV wrote:
Right back at you – You *are* a Christian, right?
Yes, I am.
Then seriously, Paladin: why are you so flippant towards people picking Christian churches, creating divisions and public spectacles, and belittling believers and pastors?
Assuming you want an answer, and that you’re not simply throwing these out for rhetorical effect, let’s take these, one at a time.
1) You seem to use the word “flippant”, not because it actually describes my attitude or responses, but because it sounds negative enough for your purposes. Would you care to explain to me how I’m being–or have ever been–“flippant” about this?
2) Todd is “picketing” the churches who have shown notable apathy toward abortion; you seem to think that the technique is bad… but, aside from repeating your personal opinion on the matter, you’ve shown no reason for anyone to agree with you.
3) What, exactly, do you mean by “creating diversions” (diversions from what, may I ask?), and why do you think it’s wrong of him to do so?
4) “Public spectacle” is an appeal to secular decorum, not to Christian principles. If you can find somewhere in the Bible (or the Catechism of the Catholic Church, for my purposes) where it says, “Don’t make a spectacle of yourself, no matter how serious the cause!”, then I’ll happily reconsider my position.
5) You seem to take your own ire at Todd and “morph” it into objective-sounding criticism, without any logical reason for doing so. You say that Todd is “belittling” believers and pastors; would you please explain that accusation (especially since it’s a serious accusation)? Have you seriously not read a single word that Todd has written and spoken, here… especially regarding his motives and his sincere heart? Or does your anger justify your accusations, in your mind?
Look, I don’t like abortion, but I’m not cool with shooting abortion docs.
Ah. And you think Todd is, then. I see. Unless… you had some other reason for bringing up this inflammatory non-sequitur?
I don’t like abortion but I’m not going to kidnap a woman on her way to a clinic.
I’ll add that to the list of things which you think Todd supports. Got it.
I don’t like abortion but I’m not going to print big signs and go outside of a church preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and thumb my nose at them and tell them they aren’t following my message.
Well… you at least get one detail right, this time: Todd did, in fact, procure big signs. I’m still waiting for proof that Todd “thumbed his nose” at anyone, or that his concern is solely a “provincial, dog-in-the-manger” type of concern for “his” message.
It’s BS and the fact that people don’t see it is a bit scary.
Save the histrionics and flailing, hysterical speech for those who agree with you, EGV; this is high in rhetoric, virtually devoid of substance. I can, also, call anything I wish “BS, and the fact that there are those who don’t see it frightens me”; I believe that about your positions, in fact. But I doubt that you’d take it as ample reason to change.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again – a lot of things can become an idol – and if somebody’s anger towards abortion becomes bigger in importance than the message of Christ – well, we have an idol on our hands.
Right. Just so: if someone’s allegiance to political causes, or to personal opinion, becomes larger than the message of Christ, then you have a problem on your hands.
Do you see my point? I’ve said this before, as well: it is your raw, unadulterated, and unjustly judgmental OPINION that Todd’s anger toward abortion “became bigger than the message of Christ” (and I really do wonder what privatised “message of Christ” you have in mind). Unless you can prove that objectively, you’re simply blowing smoke and yelling personal opinions in the wind.
Paladin – have you been picketing churches in your neighborhood?
No, I have not. I don’t recall Todd saying that everyone was called to that sort of thing; he said the opposite, in fact, several times. Todd merely asserts that SOME people ARE called to do that; and you claim (with staggering lack of evidence) that NO ONE is. Since you’re the one making the active claim (i.e. that no one can possible be called by God to do what Todd is doing–you assert, in fact, that he’s being idolatrous and prideful!), it’s only reasonable to ask you to back up your accusation with sound reasoning and evidence. That, or give him one heck of an apology.
A lot of people seem to be saying he’s a saint, but how many people are following to action? My guess is that most know better.
First: Todd never claimed to be a Saint (in the sense of a “hero of virtue” who’s now in Heaven, beholding God face-to-face), though he can certainly lay claim to being a “saint” (small “s”, which any Christian can claim). Second: there seemed to be quite a few people helping him in the “police assault” video, yes? Third: see above, re: spouting your personal opinions, recognizing that not everyone is called to this sort of work (but some are), and the like.