Jivin J’s Life Links 7-25-11
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
- The Washington Post has a long article on late-term abortionist LeRoy Carhart and his abortion business in Maryland.
- Gallup has a new poll out on abortion restrictions. The public widely favors informed consent, parental consent, 24-hour waiting periods and bans on partial-birth abortion. They weren’t as open to ultrasound legislation, conscience protections for health care providers and defunding abortion providers (though the framing of the last two questions really could change how people respond).
Respondents also overwhelmingly favored banning abortion in the 2nd trimester. 71% thought 2nd trimester abortions should be illegal. 86% thought 3rd trimester abortions should be illegal.
- The New York Times has a piece on male contraception.
- The NY Times also unsurprisingly editorializes against a court decision to stop the enforcement of New York City’s pregnancy center law.
- Mother Jones interviewed a woman named Dana Weinstein (pictured left) who aborted her child at 29 weeks after a sonogram showed brain abnormalities:
She decided to end the pregnancy rather than continuing for another 2 months and prolonging the suffering. It was a very personal decision, she says, one made between her, her family, and her doctors. “We wanted her and loved her,” Weinstein says. “In some ways I feel a little bit lucky, in that she was so sick that the decision was almost made for us. I don’t wrestle with guilt.”….
Even though she lived in Maryland and saw a doctor in Washington, DC, Weinstein found it difficult to obtain an abortion so far along in her pregnancy. There were no doctors, at the time, that offered the procedure at her stage in the Washington area. She had to travel to Dr. Warren Hern’s clinic in Boulder, CO, far from her support network. Weinstein spent a week in Colorado between the initial visit with the doctor and the actual procedure, all the time worrying that the baby was suffering.
- The Daily Mail has the story of an Irish woman who traveled to Britain for an abortion:
‘I wont regret this at all,’ she said. ‘I’m not going to be one of those people who will think of this every year. I’ll just forget it and move on. I’ll have to make sure it never happens again. I just want this to be over and done with. I’m in an terrible state over the entire thing.’….
She said very little as we packed up our things and called a taxi for the airport. The ordeal had taken its toll – she looked pale and extremely emotional and occasionally wiped her eyes and nose with a tissue. She said she felt ‘hollow and exhausted’.
‘I still feel pregnant even though I know there is nothing there now,’ she said.
‘I feel hugely guilty – guilty for keeping it a secret and guilty for what I’ve done. But I don’t regret it. In time the guilt will go.’
[Photo via Mother Jones]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
The Daily Mail and Mother Jones stories are just so sad.
When asked if she would consider changing her mind and giving the baby up for adoption instead she said ‘no way’.
‘I know there are lots of people who can’t have children but that’s not my fault. I don’t want this baby and I have the right to make this decision.
Sad, sad, sad.
I’d like to know what proof Dana Weinstein had that her child was “suffering” — the article said that her baby “may have difficulty swallowing,” but gives no indication if this was painful for a child in-utero. I wonder if Weinstein bothered to do any research to that end at all before making her decision.
I also wonder if she’s ever heard of perinatal hospice, which could have helped her daughter die whole, with dignity and grace, after her birth instead of being euthanized and then violently dismembered in the womb.
that little baby suffered more by having her tiny body shredded in the abortion. A c-section would have been better and allowed the baby to die NATURALLY rather than violently. then maybe the mother would have actually held her baby and seen how perfect she was despite the abnormalities.
I just can’t grasp ”kill the child before she dies naturally.”
I can’t either, Carla. What is the matter with people? I think people just don’t want to deal with a child who has disabilities or isn’t “perfect.” What is merciful about dismembering your baby? Holy moly.
I don’t want this baby and I have the right to make this decision.
Oh, the mantra of the pro-abortion robots.
Thankfully, she had the ability to travel to Britain.
Too bad her precious child was only able to travel to the trash bin.
How many of you anti-abortion people celebrate your conception day? I’m guessing none. And why not if you folks think life begins at conception? Oh wait, that’s right, life actually begins at birth (aka the day you can live outside of the womb). Silly me.
And thank The Gods she had the ability to make that very hard choice.
Phew! What a lucky Woman to have had the ability to travel to a place in which Women’s rights are respected!
JoAnna- Did you even read the article? Are you being silly in asking whether or not she researched her options and the child’s condition? READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And thank The Liberals her child wasn’t given the ability to make any choices.
Hi Mr. Liberal.
How does it follow that if we don’t celebrate conception day, then life actually begins at birth? In fact, I don’t celebrate my conception day OR my birthday. Does it follow that I am not a life? Celebrating birthdays is a custom. It simply has no bearing on the ontological nature of the unborn.
I’m also not sure why we would pick the “day you can live outside the womb” to be the time when it is no longer legal to kill you. Why value the ability to live outside the womb?
I’m so glad that Dana was able to find the care she needed. I’m saddened that she had to travel so far to get it. It’s sad that the child she was hoping to recieve could not be, I have seen that too many times. I’m glad that she had the ability to travel to a doctor to help her.
Great quote by Jacqueline Harvey who commented on the Mother Jones site:
If it’s self-righteous to suggest that people shouldn’t kill their sick children, I will gladly wear that label like a jewel-studded tiara.
Agreed, Duck! Are you familiar with Tay Sachs? If so, can you imagine a parent being forced via lack of options to bring a Tay Sachs child into the world? At that point, you might as well have a child for the sole purpose of beating it violently every single day, but not enough to kill it until it turns two…as that’s the average age Tay Sachs children suffer until. I just don’t get how people talk about respecting life, and then think it makes any sense to prolong the suffering of a child. Gross.
Dear Mr. Liberal,
Did you have a science teacher in elementary school? If so, SUE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need a new jewel studded tiara! I’ll wear it in honor of how self righteous I am in my belief in Women’s rights! Plus, I’m really pretty, so I think it’ll bring out the sparkle in my green eyes!
Ashtar, yes, I’ve heard of Tay Sachs. It’s a terrible painful condition. I’m aware of many, and I do mean, many conditions from before birth that could absolutely make a family wrench with sadness. Many of the fetus who get these conditions are wanted, but because of the diagnosis, are thankfully not caused to suffer.
Bobby Bambino,
You have missed my point entirely. Let me spell it out in terms you can understand.
According to you lovely people life begins at conception; okay lets think about that.
If, in fact, life does begin at conception as you say, then if a woman were to have unprotected sex and one of her eggs happened to be fertilized by that act of sex, then her egg would then be a human life according to your logic.
Then by your logic if that woman flushed that “human” out of her body during her menstrual cycle instead of it growing in her uterus, that would, by your logic, make that woman a murderer.
Remember, I’m using your logic here. So tell me again, when does life really begin?
What percentage of children that are aborted electively have Tay Sachs?
I believe that doctors give the worst case scenario or offer no other options that are available and the fear of the family are all reasons why a child is killed before they die naturally. How do you measure suffering when those that are proabortion can’t even figure out when a baby can feel pain??
Traveling to kill? Yes. Thank goodness.
I mean if one of my children were to ever suffer in any way I should kill them.
“You have missed my point entirely. Let me spell it out in terms you can understand.”
No, I don’t think so. You didn’t make any point like what you talked about in your 2011/07/25 at 2:47 pm post in your 2011/07/25 at 2:18 pm post. You discussed not celebrating conception day vs. celebrating a birthday. I’m not sure how anyone was supposed to draw out a miscarriage=murder argument from that…
“According to you lovely people life begins at conception; okay lets think about that.
If, in fact, life does begin at conception as you say, then if a woman were to have unprotected sex and one of her eggs happened to be fertilized by that act of sex, then her egg would then be a human life according to your logic.”
Yes…
“Then by your logic if that woman flushed that “human” out of her body during her menstrual cycle instead of it growing in her uterus, that would, by your logic, make that woman a murderer.”
No. To have a miscarriage is not the same thing as directly and willfully killing a human being. A necessary condition for murder is intention- that is, you must partake in an action where you will the death of someone. So I don’t see how it follows that if a woman’s body naturally miscarries, then it somehow constitutes murder… yes, a human being was killed, but it was not intended nor was it (presumably) done on purpose.
“Remember, I’m using your logic here.”
Well, the problem is that it is extremely unclear how you understand what is meant by “murder.” I suppose if you define murder as “any action taken or not taken by someone that could in any way result in the death of someone else” then, yes, it would be murder, but my goodness, not a single pro-lifer or pro-choicer would hold to such a definition.
So tell me again, when does life really begin?”
Human life begins at conception. This is confirmed by modern embryology.
“Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression ‘fertilized ovum’ refers to the zygote.”
– Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th ed. 1993, p. 1
“The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are…respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development.”
– Human Embryology. 2nd edition. 1997, p. 17
“Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed…. The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity.”
Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. 1996, pp. 8, 29.
“In this text, we begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual. … Fertilization takes place in the oviduct … resulting in the formation of a zygote containing a single diploid nucleus. Embryonic development is considered to begin at this point… This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development.”
Essentials of Human Embryology 1998 1-17.
“[The Zygote] results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm … unites with a female gamete or oocyte … to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”
The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. 1998, pg. 2-18.
“Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed… Fertilization is the procession of events that begins when a spermatozoon makes contact with a secondary oocyte or its investments… The zygote … is a unicellular embryo…”
Human Embryology & Teratology 1996 pg. 5-55.
Mr. Liberal,
Your lack of education about the basic human reproductive system is showing. :)
Menstrual cycles happen because the body flushes out unfertilized eggs. Once the egg is fertilized, it is no longer an egg, but a new human being.
IF a miscarriage happens, it is a physical reaction that happens but it is not the choice of the mother. Abortion is the intentional taking of a human life.
I support Male Contraception, pill, condom, etc. It should be subsidized as much as Viagra.
Mr. “Liberal”:
Then by your logic if that woman flushed that “human” out of her body during her menstrual cycle instead of it growing in her uterus, that would, by your logic, make that woman a murderer.
No, that would be true only by your idiotic pro-choice “logic.”
To people who actually understand logic, on the other hand, it means that she had a very early miscarriage, which means the accidental death of her child. On what planet do you live that accidental death is equivalent to murder?
Did you ever consider that people never got into the habit of celebrating the day of conception because at least until very recently, most women didn’t usually know the actual day they conceived, while the day they give birth is very difficult to miss?
Are the two “arguments” you’ve presented the best you can do? Seriously?
Carla- Look it up yourself. That was just ONE example. You’re hyperbolic joke of a comment about killing your child if it might ever suffer is obnoxious and bizarre. There’a a huge difference between a few scraped knees, a cold here and there, etc, and a short life of horrible pain and suffering. Honestly, I can only say that parents who deem themselves martyrs for carrying said children to term and keeping them alive via pumps and machines are SELFISH. They are SELFISH to a level I can barely wrap my head around. Letting a terminally ill child go in the most humane way possible is SELFLESS and KIND. What the ‘most humane way possible’ means is open to interpretation.
Mr. Liberal says:
According to you lovely people life begins at conception; okay lets think about that.
If, in fact, life does begin at conception as you say, then if a woman were to have unprotected sex and one of her eggs happened to be fertilized by that act of sex, then her egg would then be a human life according to your logic.
Then by your logic if that woman flushed that “human” out of her body during her menstrual cycle instead of it growing in her uterus, that would, by your logic, make that woman a murderer.
Remember, I’m using your logic here. So tell me again, when does life really begin?
What kind of logic says that if the body naturally (without an abortifacient) expels an embryo (a human life in an early stage of development) the woman is guilty of murder (the legal definition of which includes the intent to cause the death of another)?
According to you lovely people life begins at conception. Um, you do realize that the “question” of when life begins has already been answered by the scientific community, not pro-lifers, right?
Bobby,
Congratulations, you know how to copy and paste from a Google search. You want a cookie? Please read the next part of this post directed to Libertybelle. You obviously missed something wile preforming your Google search.
Libertybelle,
Not every fertilized egg clings and attaches to the wall of the uterus. That’s basic science 101. A miscarriage is when that fertilized egg has grown into a fetus. Once again, basic science 101.
Honestly, I can only say that parents who deem themselves martyrs for carrying said children to term and keeping them alive via pumps and machines are SELFISH.
I don’t believe parents who carry terminally ill children view themselves as martyrs – they simply view natural birth and death to be the best and most acceptable way to go. They do not believe that they should be the ones to determine the day of their child’s death. It’s really that simple. They believe strongly in the humanity and dignity of their child, which is why they have chosen to allow that child to have the longest life in utero possible.
From the woman’s perspective, late term abortion carries significant risk for the woman and her possible future pregnancies.
Libertybelle,
Not every fertilized egg clings and attaches to the wall of the uterus. That’s basic science 101. A miscarriage is when that fertilized egg has grown into a fetus. Once again, basic science 101.
Okay, I agree. But that is a bodily function (assuming no abortifacients are used), therefore not an abortion or murder. And the fact that the embryo hasn’t attached to the uterus doesn’t alter the fact that it is, in fact, a genetically unique being.
You didn’t read anything Bobby posted, did you?
You seem to be in denial of scientific fact. Pro-lifers didn’t make this stuff up – scientists have long held these beliefs.
Dr LeRoy Carhart is a hero. He travels from his home in Nebraska to Maryland on a regular basis to provide women’s health care.
Most humane way possible to abort a child?
Well let’s see. There’s saline, tearing off a child’s extremities and crushing their head and delivering them piece by piece, a shot to the heart to stop it then delivery, delivery of a live baby and allowing her to suffocate so she doesn’t suffer.
Take your pick, Ashtar.
Stop the suffering. Kill.
“Congratulations, you know how to copy and paste from a Google search. You want a cookie? Please read the next part of this post directed to Libertybelle. You obviously missed something wile preforming your Google search.”
Actually, I copied and pasted it from my friend Dr Nadal’s blog. But suppose the only arguments I can make are ones in which I steal from copied and pasted google searches. What follows about the nature of the unborn? How does my googling and copying and pasting somehow refute any argument I make?
This isn’t about me, Mr. Liberal. I am interested in your reaction to those comments as well as any sort of rebuttal you have to what I said. Sarcasm and mockery is very easy to do, especially on the internet, but it lacks any sort of substance and it does not address anything I said. I can only assume that you have no substantive response to anything I said, and must rely on your sarcasm to try and salvage any sort of intellectual credibility you think you have.
“Not every fertilized egg clings and attaches to the wall of the uterus. That’s basic science 101.”
Yes, we are all well aware of this. What follows?
“A miscarriage is when that fertilized egg has grown into a fetus. Once again, basic science 101. ”
Wait, what? I don’t understand at all what you are trying to say here… What in the world are you trying to say? What is the argument supposed to be?
No, Ashtar, your “logic” is obnoxious and bizarre. Ripping apart a child in the womb(or any other method used to kill that child, for that matter) is in NO WAY “humane”.
Duck,
Bullying women into submission? Oh, really?
So helping women find jobs to pay for their babies, counseling them about how to be a better parent, on their options for raising or placing their babies for adoption, assisting them with material baby items, etc is bullying them into submission?
Their are quite a number of secular CPC’s as well. And many of them do employ certified nurses and counselors. Better get your facts straight before you go ranting about. :)
Mr. Liberal says:
July 25, 2011 at 3:16 pm
A miscarriage is when that fertilized egg has grown into a fetus. Once again, basic science 101.
What??? A pre-born baby is an EMBRYO in the first three months of pregnancy. A MISCARRIAGE is when the pre-born baby stops growing and DIES and is expelled by the mother’s body. A miscarried baby cannot GROW into a fetus.
Taking a page out of your movement’s book, “if every single CPC was so great, why would there need to be a watch page for it” (in parody of “If every abortion clinic was perfect and regulated, why would there be so many hospital trips”)
Well, to that I give you the site that collects those stories.
http://cpcwatch.org/
Outside of that, I don’t really feel like responding to other comments.
How many of you anti-abortion people celebrate your conception day? I’m guessing none. And why not if you folks think life begins at conception? Oh wait, that’s right, life actually begins at birth (aka the day you can live outside of the womb). Silly me.
Societal convention. If we all happened to live in eastern Asia, most of us would be 1 years old at birth. But most of us here don’t (if any at all do). Societal convention has no bearing on a scientific fact.
…Besides, if life began the day we can live outside the womb, then life would begin before birth.
Duck, how many women have you spoken with who went to a CPC and received help and were grateful to receive it?
The majority of women helped by these organizations can’t spend their time making up stories on a website, because they’re too busy raising their children and some of them don’t even have access to the internet. The majority of the women CPCs help are in the inner city, a large portion of them minorities.
I’m sure not “every single CPC” is awesome. There are probably a few out there that aren’t run as effectively as they should be. That does not discredit the majority of them which are reputable and extremely beneficial to women, children, and families.
Kel, I thought the women “helped by these organizations” are already talked about all over the movement’s sites and flyers. Aren’t they included in the “saves”? Outside of that, many of them do not have licensed medical staff, such as doctors and social work counselors. I’m sure the many volunteers at those clinics have their heart’s in the right place, and would consider themselves even counselors for life, but are they licensed in social work and/or therapy? No. That was all my point was.
Women helped by CPCs have their testimonials put online or used in literature with their permission. They don’t go to a website and post it themselves for the CPCs. Some do post their stories on StandUpGirl, but the majority of those helped? You’ll never hear about them.
CPCs that offer ultrasound have trained technicians, nurses or doctors on staff. The pregnancy tests do not require medical staff to administer.
CPCs offer information on fetal development, abortion risks, abstinence, along with material goods like carseats, cribs, clothing for infants and older children, maternity clothing, parenting classes, referrals to community resources, adoption agencies, maternity homes, etc. None of these require a medical degree to dispense.
But knowledge and education? That’s what CPCs provide to a large extent, and that is what pro-abortion groups fear the most.
Counselors at a clinic are often trained in crisis counseling. Many of them have psychology degrees, education degrees, etc., so they are most definitely trained to deal with difficult situations and people in need. A crisis pregnancy center will refer women elsewhere for any necessary therapy for psychological problems. Crisis counseling is not the same scope as long-term therapy.
Ooo, a glimmer of hope from an abortion fan:
“If, in fact, life does begin at conception as you say, then if a woman were to have unprotected sex and one of her eggs happened to be fertilized by that act of sex, then her egg would then be a human life according to your logic.”
Yes!! Yes, abortion fans, you are getting it!! There is hope for you. Now, if you’d only figure out the rest of the facts concerning the human reproductive process, we might make even more progress!
And besides, lots of our parents knew when we were conceived and some of us even have funny stories about when, where, and how. (In the car, in Granny’s driveway, ooo rah!!).
Someone trained how to run a machine, doesn’t equate to being a licesnse medical professional. Training in “crisis counseling” you say huh? Then where’s their certification and licesnsing? That’s the problem, they don’t have it. More CPC’s than not, advertise abortion services in directories, and then women get there, and find out they’re a “fake” clinic.
And again, I don’t really feel like arguing with fanatics. Have a good day.
Who gets to decide who’s a fanatic and who isn’t?
Thread derailed. :(
I am wondering how in the world they would know a child is “suffering” in the womb?
How is that measured? Or is that just an assumption?
All this time worrying that a baby is suffering and not worrying that the ending of her life might be excruciating and you are responsible for it.
Assume the child is suffering. Kill.
I can only speak for myself, Some Guy.
I am a fanatic.
And again, I don’t really feel like arguing with fanatics. Have a good day.
Well, that would cause me to wonder why you came here, then. :D
It’s very easy to throw grenades and then run away, I guess.
CPCs advertise in the yellow pages under “abortion alternatives.” This is alphabetically next to abortion clinic ads. The abortion clinic ads typically read, “Abortion to 24 weeks, twilight anesthesia,” etc. The CPC ads: “Free pregnancy testing.” Deceiving? Yeaaah… not so much.
If a woman finds out a CPC is a ‘fake clinic’ and she’s mortified, she can leave. No one anesthetizes her and keeps her there under protest, which is more than we can say for certain abortion facilities.
A course in crisis counseling does not come with a certification or a license. But then, the “counselors” at Planned Parenthood aren’t licensed, either, except in how to prey upon fear and sell abortions. Will that be Visa or Mastercard today?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/24/america-pregnant-women-murder-charges
I was just reading through the comments, and noticed the discussion about miscarriage. I suggest you all read the article above. A woman is facing a murder charge for a still-birth when she was 15. While she had a cocaine issue, they didn’t find a link between her cocaine usage and the stillbirth. And even had they found a link, in my opinion she needed help and support, not jail time. :-(
Another woman mentioned in this article took rat poisoning after her boyfriend left her. She was brought to the hospital and survived, but the baby did not. She’s now being charged with murder. True, you can argue that the rat poisoning (or the subsequent stress on her body) cause the abortion, but she didn’t take it with the intent to kill her child, but to kill herself.
Another woman decided not to an abortion after finding out her child has Down’s Syndrome. The baby was born prematurely and died. 6 months later she was arrested on the claim that she had caused the baby to die. This woman is a mother to 3 other children, and may face 10 years in prison.
I just wanted to post these examples to show that women are being arrested and charged with murder for miscarriages.
Surely “Mr. Liberal” cannot be for real. Surely he is a troll.
I am starting to want to throw things at people who compare miscarriage to abortion. Yes, in both cases, a child dies. However, claiming that miscarriage is morally equivalent to abortion is the same as claiming a death from cancer is equivalent to a death from strangulation. In both situations, a person dies. But pretending those deaths are morally equivalent is the height of deliberate obtuseness and I refuse to believe that Mr. Liberal is being this stupid because he comes by it honestly. Troll. Bad troll.
And that’s all the food I’m going to give him.
I guess a Masters in Social Work isn’t a licensed and certified field is it, Kel? Cause that’s what’s required for counselors at PP and the independent clinics. As for not arguing with fanatics (as I again fail at today) I was meaning more, I made a few points of dissent at the post, and didn’t intend to debate/argue with anyone on the thread. So, I’ll try again. But I’m human what can I say.
I guess a Masters in Social Work isn’t a licensed and certified field is it, Kel? Cause that’s what’s required for counselors at PP and the independent clinics.
Do you have documented proof of this? If so, I’d be interested to see it, as would the thousands of women who were sold abortions at clinics with little to no actual counseling.
Interesting that you post that, Kay. I was just listening to a podcast discussions about that very article today.
Now obviously I don’t write the laws, but I would say that because miscarriages are quite common and because of the grief and trauma that most women experience because of a miscarriage, it would be prudent to not look into or investigate any miscarriages unless there is a priori reason to believe that there was some sort of foul play involved. That means that miscarriages shouldn’t be investigated in order to take legal action unless there is a clear reason for doing so. Thus, the default potion should be that this was a genuine miscarriage and no investigation should be taken. Could people take advantage of such a law and get away with aborting their own child? Yes, of course. But people can get away with most laws if they are careful enough. We simply can’t attempt to police every single little way that someone could find a loophole or go unnoticed by the law.
So if these investigations are indeed unjust and done on a whim, then I do not support them. But to call them miscarriages is to beg the question; that is, the very reason that these are being investigated is because it is believed on (presumably) good evidence that these are cases of abortions, not miscarriages. In the case of the rat poison, that would be, what, negligent homicide? I don’t really know legal terms, but like I mentioned above, this should not be the default assumption. The real strange part about all of this is that had this woman paid someone to kill her unborn child, then everything would be fine (under the law, of course).
Would a CPC ever hand out condoms? If so, why? If not, why?
CPCs don’t hand out condoms because
1) they encourage extramarital sex if the parties are unmarried
2) condoms are notoriously unreliable in preventing both pregnancy and STDs
another thing to add about the baby that was killed due to the abnormalities. HER RIGHTS were not respected. Where was HER right to say I WANT TO LIVE. even if its for just five minutes or an hour?
In abortion, NO ONE WINS, because HALF of abortions end a BABY GIRL’S LIFE!
Playing God has its consequences. To choose to murder any innocent child in the womb makes the assumption that one has all the answers and knows all of the effects of such a decision. Assumption is the lowest form of knowledge and should never be used as the basis from which to make any life/death decision. I for one know of just one single human being who had the abilty to do this and it ain’t me and it ain’t any of you.
You know what….abortion is one of the most arrogant things any human being could do.
Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
Letting a terminally ill child go in the most humane way possible is SELFLESS and KIND.
Just the preborn terminally ill children? Or any terminally ill child?
Creepy.
I wonder if Weinstein bothered to do any research to that end at all before making her decision.
I’m wondering if you bothered to look at the center where she got her diagnosis. Just between you and me, I have my doubts. But I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that they discussed the prognosis with her. And the hospital does link to resources on perinatal hospice: http://www.childrensnational.org/EMSC/PubRes/OldToolboxPages/PediatricPain.aspx
Hey Some Guy:
I know it is not in our human tradition to celebrate our “Conception Day”, however, I do know the Father celebrates this day for each of His children.
I think merely honoring another human beig for the simple fact that they exist is a celebration of their “Conception Day”. Remember this, without conception, there is no birth.
Duck says:
July 25, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Dr LeRoy Carhart is a hero. He travels from his home in Nebraska to Maryland on a regular basis to provide women’s health care.
I know you’re not replying anymore, but I would just like to point out that Carhart is no hero. Far from it, in fact. He’s under investigation by the Maryland Board of Physicians because of allegations from former patients and employees that say:
• Carhart misrepresented his practice on his Maryland medical license application when he indicated he was an emergency room physician and university professor. In reality, Carhart has not had an affiliation with a hospital since 1987, and was stripped of any formal duties with the University of Nebraska in the late 1990s.
• Carhart’s Maryland application omits his decades of job history as owner and abortionist at the Abortion and Contraceptive Clinic in Bellevue, Nebraska, and 12 years of employment at Women’s Health Care Services in Wichita, Kansas, where he specialized in late-term abortions.
• Carhart conducts risky late-term abortions in Maryland without hospital privileges.
• Carhart has a history of involvement in multiple botched late-term abortions during his employment in Kansas, including the third trimester death of 19-year old Christin Gilbert.
In Nebraska, he has come under investigation by Nebraska Attorney General Jon Bruning with the Department of Health and Human Services, because former employees have given testimony about the numerous illegal activities going on under Carhart and his clinic. They have stated that they had no medical background but routinely assisted with surgeries, started IVs, and dispensed medication without the proper credentials, meaning they are not registered nurses or certified licensed practical nurses, as required by state law. None had any sort of medical education other than being instructed by a RN for a few months. One had no education beyond a high school diploma. They stated that there were convicted felons working there performing medical duties for which they are not qualified, under assumed names (yes, some of them were these felons, but others weren’t). They also indicated that drugs had gone missing at the clinic, and that Carhart was chemically impaired while on duty. They indicated that Carhart had poor personal hygiene and rarely washed his hands between patients. One said she saw dried blood on an instrument laid out for a procedure. Another former employee said she was concerned for the safety of the patients because she sometimes saw unsanitary conditions while she worked there. Yet another told of incidents where Carhart falsified the gestational age of viable babies in order to circumvent the law. Former patients who have also come forward have said the same. Jon Bruning Nebraska Attorney General has stated of Carhart, “I’m disgusted and I’m saddened and I hate it that he’s here in Nebraska, and I hate it that he’s in America. I mean, this guy is one sick individual.”
Furthermore, after his clinic in NE accidentally caught fire in January 2009, he began operating again less than two months later with only a generator providing electricity for the procedure, connected to the building by a long extension cord, and without an occupancy permit. Imagine if that generator ran out of gas while in the middle of a procedure! It’s a health hazard, and Carhart knows it.
Carhart also proudly notes that he is currently an Adjunct Assistant Professor at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, Department of Pathology and Microbiology. However, UNMC fired Carhart in 1999, under pressure from the public after it was discovered that not only was Carhart involved in late-term partial birth abortions, but that he was donating the remains of his abortion victims to the University for “research.” Carhart sued for reinstatement claiming his First Amendment rights had somehow been violated. Finally the UNMC settled out of court with Carhart, reluctantly reinstating him to the faculty, but removing any responsibilities from him.
http://cpcwatch.org/ws_sandra.php
I’m just reading the links that duck posted above and this is a really amazing story about a woman receiving care from Planned Parenthood on her CHOICE to keep her child. I really like that on the pro-choice side a woman’s decisions are honored and valued – whether it’s adoption, abortion, or keeping the baby.
Also, I don’t know why everyone on this blog denies that a CPC’s entire strategy is to trick women into keeping the baby, whether it’s their choice or not. When counseling and misinformation fail, CPC’s turn to lies and more lies, right?
http://cpcwatch.org/ws_lauren.php
http://cpcwatch.org/ws_tyra.php
http://cpcwatch.org/ws_terri.php
“So if these investigations are indeed unjust and done on a whim, then I do not support them. But to call them miscarriages is to beg the question; that is, the very reason that these are being investigated is because it is believed on (presumably) good evidence that these are cases of abortions, not miscarriages. In the case of the rat poison, that would be, what, negligent homicide? I don’t really know legal terms, but like I mentioned above, this should not be the default assumption. The real strange part about all of this is that had this woman paid someone to kill her unborn child, then everything would be fine (under the law, of course).”
Bobby, I do not see why this woman should be charged with anything. She was suicidal, considering she took rat poisoning to end her life, and possibly not in a clear enough mental state to consider the effects on the unborn fetus. If anything, she should receive support and counseling for her suicide attempt.
And with the case of the 15-year-old with the cocaine problem, I also cannot understand why she is being charged with murder. She was 15 and had a drug addiction that they never even linked to her stillbirth. Like the other woman, I also think this woman should have received support to help her conquer her addiction, not jail time for what might have been an unfortunate and sad side effect of her drug problem.
I do believe that the majority of the pro-life movement wishes to see women thrown in prison for miscarriages. Unfortunately, I do think there is a significant enough amount of pro-lifers who do want that, and they might also be the ones who think it is okay to murder abortion providers. I definitely do not believe they are the majority, just the loudest.
I noticed nobody has commented much on the male birth control article. I think it’s fascinating and I have been following the development of male bc for years. I’m excited for when it finally debuts. :-)
As for the myth that CPC’s care about babies AFTER they’re born?
http://cpcwatch.org/ws_danielle.php
And the idea that CPC’s are properly representing themselves as “abortion alternatives”?
http://cpcwatch.org/ws_caroline.php
http://cpcwatch.org/ws_jamie.php
CC, please try to stick to one moniker.
FYI, I’m not Catholic. You are deliberately posting inflammatory religious comments, many of them off-topic. This derails the thread from other general pro-life topics and only causes religious wars on the threads, when that simply isn’t necessary. Not all pro-lifers are Catholic or even religious. So, your incessant comments about the priesthood don’t really affect me one way or the other, but they’re inappropriate to the discussions.
Oh, lookie. Duck’s gone from just deleting dissenting comments which can’t be rebutted (and the grossly feeble attempts to rebut them thrown out by her sycophants that show how shallow, self-centered, and cruel abortion is and abortion supporters are) to actively trolling Jill’s blog. Happy Graduation Day! *plays Pomp And Circumstance*
Kel said, ”
CPCs don’t hand out condoms because
1) they encourage extramarital sex if the parties are unmarried
2) condoms are notoriously unreliable in preventing both pregnancy and STDs”
Okay, then. Why not birth control? After all, there are many birth control defenders on here. If it is such a “good,” then why are they not being handed out?
xalisae, please see my comment to you on the weekend question post. Why are you so angry and full of hate? You’re a mean little person that doesn’t have a leg to stand on, which is why you resort to insults instead of facts.
Bruce, I never said birth control was a “good.” But sometimes, in the context of marriage, with all parties consenting, it is deemed necessary for a time. And I am absolutely against hormonal contraception.
I answered your question about why CPCs do not hand out condoms. CPCs encourage abstinence, which is the correct thing to do. And I am also not anti-NFP. I believe all women should know how their bodies function normally, when not on artificial hormones. They have a right to be educated on this, instead of being told to just pop a pill everyday, which alters their brain chemistry and throws off a properly functioning reproductive system. I know about NFP, and I know that in my case, it is just not a “sure thing,” nor is it anywhere near regular.
Now that you know far too much about me, perhaps you can continue to hurl more insults my way. Have at it.
Already saw it. Already answered it. And if you’ll read a little farther up the line, you’ll see my post that was full of nothing but the fact which was just ignored. I’m completely out of respect for your side of this debate, and I’m done pretending as if your side deserves any respect. Don’t act all indignant at me when I’ve been called degrading things that would make a sailor blush by people who supposedly support my rights as a woman. You don’t have the high ground here. Stop trying to act like it. XD
Many of us here have either gone to CPCs for help, or worked/volunteered at CPCs, derrr. So we happen to know firsthand that for every story on CPC Watch that you can use to further your pro-abortion propaganda, there are probably 10 women out there THANKING CPCs for being there for them.
But hey, we know you’re not really pro-choice, you’re pro-abortion choice.
There’a a huge difference between a few scraped knees, a cold here and there, etc, and a short life of horrible pain and suffering.
We’re not talking about scraped knees, colds, etc. What about an 8 year old who develops leukemia. Should we hold the pillow over their face until the thrashing stops and call that “SELFLESSNESS”?
Also, I don’t know why everyone on this blog denies that a CPC’s entire strategy is to trick women into keeping the baby, whether it’s their choice or not. When counseling and misinformation fail, CPC’s turn to lies and more lies, right?
Please explain how CPCs “trick women” into keeping the baby. How do CPCs get them to keep the baby, “whether it’s their choice or not”? What’s to stop a woman from leaving a CPC and obtaining an abortion? I’ll tell you what: NOTHING. In fact, I had clients who did that very thing – and later came BACK to the CPC bringing friends who needed help. One of them actually told me, “You were honest and upfront with me about everything and didn’t judge me, and even though I had the abortion, I knew this was where I needed to bring my friend so she could get the straight truth.”
What misinformation and lies do you believe CPCs disseminate?
Did you read the links I included above, Kel? They trick women into keeping babies by delaying appointments until after it is too late to have an abortion or get emergency contraception. They tell them that if only they keep the baby the CPC will provide money, diapers, supplies, etc. and then stop short when the baby is actually born.
Kel, I am very sure that there are countless women that have been genuinely helped by CPCs. I’m also very sure that there are countless women that have been misled and harmfully manipulated by CPCs. Why is it that I can admit to both sides but you cannot?
They trick women into keeping babies by delaying appointments until after it is too late to have an abortion or get emergency contraception. They tell them that if only they keep the baby the CPC will provide money, diapers, supplies, etc. and then stop short when the baby is actually born.
Derrr, abortion is legal, without any restrictions, up until 24 weeks. 6 MONTHS. And even then, women are usually able to obtain judicial bypass. So… I don’t know what you’re talking about with that one. And EC is available over the counter. If they’re making an appt with a CPC BEFORE they go to the store to get their EC, then there’s really no counting for brains, here. EC would typically be the first stop – before a woman would even be able to TELL she’s pregnant with a test. So, that makes zero sense.
CPCs do not provide money to clients. They do provide the diapers and supplies. But many of them have education/parenting classes that they like the parents to sign up for so that they are obtaining those items while learning how to care for their infants. Believe me, I know there are people who know how to milk the system, but there are others with genuine, long-term need. CPCs do the best they can to help those people, and in turn refer them to other community centers who can aid them with needs like food and perhaps financial assistance.
So you didn’t read the links then?
So you didn’t read the links then?
Nope. Don’t really want to give that site any more traffic, and I don’t need to read them. I ran a CPC for almost 4 years, so I think I know how it works.
Willful ignorance, I guess then. You may have run a CPC but you can’t deny that there are many CPCs in the world that employ deceit, delay, and lies as tactics to force women into choosing anything but abortion. Your anecdote of running ONE CPC and claiming that you never used those tactics doesn’t change the experiences other women have had at CPCs.
Kel, I am very sure that there are countless women that have been genuinely helped by CPCs. I’m also very sure that there are countless women that have been misled and harmfully manipulated by CPCs. Why is it that I can admit to both sides but you cannot?
Really? Well, that’s the first time I’ve seen you admit this, derrr.
I admit that there are disingenuous people out there in the world, and if individual sidewalk counselors or volunteers have promised women something and not followed through, they should be dismissed from the CPCs immediately, because the policies of CPCs do not work this way.
Willful ignorance, I guess then. You may have run a CPC but you can’t deny that there are many CPCs in the world that employ deceit, delay, and lies as tactics to force women into choosing anything but abortion. Your anecdote of running ONE CPC and claiming that you never used those tactics doesn’t change the experiences other women have had at CPCs.
I worked for an entire network of CPCs, so I know their policies and procedures as an organization.
Have you been to a CPC, derrr? Called one? Visited one?
I think most pro-choice people are more moderate than you believe, Kel. I believe in a woman’s right to choose… if that means keeping the baby, adoption, or abortion, I support her. I am NOT pro-abortion, but I am pro-choice. I believe that there are many CPCs and CPC volunteers that love babies and want to bring them into the world but I also believe that there are many CPCs that use an “end to justify the means” kind of approach instead. If CPCs believe they are so right then why are there so many stories of them resorting to manipulation, lies, deceit, and delay instead of just laying out the facts and hoping that the woman “chooses life”?
If CPCs believe they are so right then why are there so many stories of them resorting to manipulation, lies, deceit, and delay instead of just laying out the facts and hoping that the woman “chooses life”?
Perhaps the “stories” are more works of fiction than you’d like to believe. Perhaps they’re tales from those who have a political agenda and ax to grind.
I’ve given you firsthand accounts of my nearly 4 years working for an organization of CPCs. Not from a pro-abortion, anti-CPC website – but as someone who worked with the actual women in my community. Believe what you want.
Keep believing what you want to believe, Kel, without ever reading the links or facing the facts. Willful ignorance. Can you imagine if someone posted a pro-life link and the pro-choice side refused to read it? I read every link you send my way and try to see the other side from an objective point of view. There are too many stories, videos, and recordings of CPCs being deceitful for them to all be “works of fiction”. Again, your anecdote does not prove to me that all CPCs are truthful organizations.
derrr, do you believe Planned Parenthood is entirely forthright with women and give women all the information that a woman should have before obtaining an abortion?
Do you believe the Live Action vids were heavily edited or faked?
I believe that there are bad apples in Planned Parenthood just as there are bad apples in CPCs. I believe that the employee that got fired at Planned Parenthood SHOULD have been fired.
But no, I don’t believe that anything that Andrew Breitbart puts out is even close to 100% factual. I believe specifically that the Lila Rose videos were heavily edited to give a certain spin and I believe that Planned Parenthood did the right thing by alerting the FBI before the videos were even released.
Now I have to go. My kids have been at a friend’s house but they’re home now and it’s family time.
Oh, and again, how many CPCs have you personally visited? How many have you called? How many women do you know personally who have been helped by CPCs?
Kel, I really have to go (and I noticed that you skipped a few of my questions above) but I’ll say this…
I personally have never been into a CPC because neither of my pregnancies were of the “crisis” variety. However, my husband is close friends with a man that is married to a CPC Director for over 8 years now. I have sat at dinner parties with her where she BRAGS about tactics used to trick women into keeping pregnancies that they did not want, including not telling women that call that they don’t provide abortions, and delaying appointments.
Plus I’ve seen 12th and Delaware. Plus I read the links above that I kindly reposted for you and you rudely chose not to read.
My anecdotes do not make all CPCs terrible organizations and your anecdotes do not prove that they are all good. My point is simply that there are too many stories of the evil side of CPCs for it to be a one-off deal but, of course, I’m sure there are good ones in the bunch too.
“I really like that on the pro-choice side a woman’s decisions are honored and valued – whether it’s adoption, abortion, or keeping the baby.”
—
And in a similar vein, I guess you could also say you liked that those on the “pro-choice” side of the slavery debate honored and valued the decision of others to own or not to own slaves. Because, you know, honoring and valuing the decisions of others based on said individual’s own morality and beliefs is, apparently, the morally superior way. Or something to that effect.
(Oh, but you’ll cry foul, right?)
Derrr your cpc director acquaintance should be removed from her position immediately if she is encouraging these sorts of tactics at her cpc. It sounds like you’ve had a run in with a corrupt individual and now in order to reinforce that stereotype, you’ve sought out sources to back up what you already believe about cpcs based on this director. You haven’t had any experiences with cpcs yourself, nor have you spoken to women who have been helped by them. And I don’t have to read every link posted by everyone I talk to on this site.
You apparently have some hangup that everyone here is rude, when you are the one who originally came to this site, guns blazing and attacking the blog owner with namecalling. If we’re so horrible, don’t waste your time here.
“I guess a Masters in Social Work isn’t a licensed and certified field is it, Kel? Cause that’s what’s required for counselors at PP and the independent clinics.”
I am an MSW and that’s a boldfaced lie. Abortion “counselors” are required to have any licensure at all, let alone an advanced degree.
And by the way, come join the fun over at the Mother Jones site.
It’s pretty sad that the anti-CPC people most likely know no one who has gone to a CPC – they just take the word of people they’ve never met because it suits their agenda.
You could ask me, Carla, Bethany, and several others on this site who actually work with women who utilize the services of CPCs. Instead, you’d rather take stories from people on an anti-CPC site with an agenda – and whom you haven’t even spoken with personally – as opposed to those of us here who have firsthand knowledge of working with women at CPCs and who could answer your questions about the procedures at our CPC organizations. But you haven’t, and that’s your prerogative.
BTW, I looked again, derrr, but can’t seem to find your questions I overlooked. If you’d like me to answer the ones that I missed, feel free to post them again.
Mr. Liberal said, “How many of you anti-abortion people celebrate your conception day? I’m guessing none. And why not if you folks think life begins at conception?”
There are plenty of people who celebrate conception days. I have celebrated all of my children’s conception day, even if only once. As soon as that second pink line appears, their is cheering, crying, hugging, dancing… then we call everyone, they cheer, cry, hug, etc… then we often celebrate with dinner and maybe buy a token gift for the new baby. So maybe we celebrate the conception day about 2 weeks after the actual day, because that’s when we can know for sure that it occured, but just because someone doesn’t celebrate a birthday on the actual day of birth, doesn’t mean that the birthday was not celebrated.
And I realize that you were meaning that I don’t celebrate MY OWN conception day, but I simply wanted to point out that since I believe life begins at conception, I celebrate that life from the first moment I know it is there. Birthdays themselves are simply a cultural ritual marking the passing of a year of life. I am glad that you have a birthday. I am so very sad that you don’t want to give that right to others equally.
Celebrating birthdays is a custom. It simply has no bearing on the ontological nature of the unborn.
This is true. Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t celebrate birthdays, doesn’t that mean they weren’t born?
@Derrr – As for the CPC stories — I did read the links and if they are indeed true, I am sorry that these women did not get the help they needed, and feel mislead. There are bad apples in every bunch, as you say. However, there are perhaps a dozen stories on this site. Does this “prove” that the 4,000 CPC’s all over the country are bogus?
One of the organizations listed, Alpha Pregnancy Services, is a very good organization. I went there for my pregnancy test many years ago and I have attended fundraisers. They do have a medical director (an MD) and a nurse. Like a previous poster said, the majority of their clients are women of color. One of there former clients now works there, so I don’t think she was mislead.
I have sat at dinner parties with her where she BRAGS about tactics used to trick women into keeping pregnancies that they did not want, including not telling women that call that they don’t provide abortions, and delaying appointments.
As an ardent prochoicer, did you confront her about this? Why didn’t you tell her what she was doing was wrong? Frankly, it’s a bit difficult to believe, with the CPC’s under siege, that someone would actually brag about doing this.
I currently contribute monthly to an organization called Several Sources. Every month I get a letter from a young woman who has used their services and pictures of their children (one had identical twin boys)! These young women must feel that the organizations they went to were legitimate.
Also, in Pennsylvania, CPC’s are required by LAW to be listed under abortion alternatives in the telephone book. What part of “alternatives” do people not understand?
Kel, I am very sure that there are countless women that have been genuinely helped by CPCs. I’m also very sure that there are countless women that have been misled and harmfully manipulated by CPCs.
There are several names of CPC’s mentioned on the site. If these CPC’s are so misleading and deceptive, why haven’t they been closed or investigated by the attorney general? Have these women filed formal complaints? If “countless women” have been mislead, why hasn’t there been a class action suit?
But I do agree with you on one thing — Andrew Breitbart is a jerk.
Dear Abortion Advocates and Euthanasia Lovers,
Please do not do me any of your favors. When I am infirm, when I am in pain, please leave me to the care of others who do not advocate for death. Do not decide for me when my life is or is not valuable. You do not have the right to decide for me or any other human being. I would rather suffer than see a ghoul like one of you looming over me with plastic bags, scalpels, poisons, or any other murderous tools that you insanely label ‘medical tools.’ I would rather die a natural death, no matter what, than be pushed along by one of you because I am just not dying quickly enough to satisfy your discomfort. I understand how uncomfortable you are with illness and pain, but it is not up to you to decide whether I live or die, nor when I live or die. Some of you say you don’t believe in a god – well, then stop playing at being what you don’t believe in. Stop pretending to be a god. Thank you.
I have done years of volunteer work, currently with the elderly and infirm, but also with children in hospice care. One child stays in my heart because she was so very special. She fought for every moment of her short life. She felt sympathy for the siblings of children in hospice. She knew they were frightened for their siblings, and she even knew that they were bored with the long visits and having to be quiet and behave. While she could still use the controls on her wheelchair, she used to visit the children who were dying. She wasn’t afraid of them. She wasn’t afraid when they were unconcious. She wasn’t afraid of the machines that kept them alive a little bit longer. She wasn’t even afraid for herself. She showed more compassion in her short and beautiful life than any abortion or euthanasia advocate.
None of you have any right to steal even a single breath or heartbeat from her.
PP does not require any licensing at all to be a counselor at their “clinics.” They “prefer” a BA in something, but all that is strictly required is a highschool diploma or a GED.
I got that information straight from their help-wanted ads.
Kel, it’s actually a good thing that I haven’t been to a CPC, in my opinion. Considering my stance on them and abortion I’d really only enter one to start a debate or do some “undercover research” and I’d rather let them do their work peacefully, as I’d hope for the same respect for the causes I believe in.
Again, like I said, not every CPC is terrible or corrupt. Not every CPC is good and helpful. Not ever Planned Parenthood employee is terrible or corrupt. Not every Planned Parenthood employee is good and helpful. Why am I the only one that can admit to both sides?
Also, Kel, I did not come in here “guns blazing” to attack Jill. I had been involved in numerous posts before that particular post, many where I was called a bad mother, told I wasn’t Christian, and plenty of other names including dumb, and told there must be something wrong with me “mentally”. When I got angry at Jill it was for using completely faulty logic (especially for someone that claims to have worked in a hospital/the real world) to MAKE UP STATISTICS and I used the words dense (as in, “Jill, are you really so dense to believe that is how Planned Parenthood’s earnings are calculated?”) and stupid (as in, “you must believe your commenters are stupid”). Weirdly enough (and maybe this is due to my “mental confusion”), I thought that was “attacking ideas and not people”. Attacking the idea that the way you calculate the portion of Planned Parenthood’s earnings that come from abortion simply by taking their end of year profit and dividing by the cost of abortions. I actually assumed that most pro-lifers were logical and rational enough to know that is NOT how profits are calculated.
Again, like I said, when I typed that comment I assumed stupid and dense were okay words to use because they didn’t contain a cuss word and I had already been called dumb, mental, and many other insulting names. No one said even a word to the commenters that directed them at me or other pro-choice folks so I thought they were safe words. Apparently only when they’re directed at those you dislike, I guess.
Kay – I did read the article about male contraception. So exciting. :-)
Of course, women may have to trust that their partners are using birth control, as men do now. But at least one method, hormone implants, visibly bulge from a man’s bicep. “Guys like it because they can show it off,” Dr. Amory said. “Proof that the male is contracepting.”
How do you know the guy isn’t just ripped???
Again, like I said, not every CPC is terrible or corrupt. Not every CPC is good and helpful. Not ever Planned Parenthood employee is terrible or corrupt. Not every Planned Parenthood employee is good and helpful. Why am I the only one that can admit to both sides?
I am glad that you admit CPC’s can be helpful. I don’t think all pC’ers or even Planned Parenthood employees are bad people and I don’t have a problem with them distributing contraceptives. I just have a big big problem with them performing abortions. I do not see abortion as a good, and that is where we will continue to disagree.
Body modification enthusiasts have embraced a wierd new trend: having saline injected under the skin to produce bumps. It is not a big leap to imagine a dishonest man getting such an injection to ‘prove’ he’s contracepting. The bumps last a couple days.
Mr. Liberal said, “How many of you anti-abortion people celebrate your conception day? I’m guessing none. And why not if you folks think life begins at conception?”
Don’t know why I am commenting on this site but my attention was directed to this thread. Mr. Liberal, I do celebrate my children’s conception days (well what I THINK are my children’s conception days) My son was conceived February 12, 2006 which is incidentally my dead father’s birthday and every year I celebrate and do special things with my son to celebrate when his life began. My second child has just been conceived, we think July 4th 2011 and next year I will almost certainly celebrate the day my baby son or daughter’s life began.
My mom is 68 and I am the youngest of 4 so she has no idea when I was conceived or my due date. Therefore I don’t know my conception date otherwise I would probably celebrate that too.
So your argument fell flat. Cause some people actually do what you secretly mock and think is ridiculous…marking the fact that we lived for 9 months before our emergence from the womb.
Okay. Peace out. You can all go back to bickering now.
Congratulations, Sydney!! I hadn’t seen you post for a while & remembered you were going through some rough times last I knew. I am hoping time has helped ease that some and this new life is wonderful news.
FWIW I have an uncle who doesn’t like to celebrate his birthday, but does celebrate his conception day. My half-Chinese niece born in August, much to my sister’s consternation, was pronounced “two years old” the February after her birth (what we would call 6 months old) by her Chinese relatives. As another poster rightly pointed out, she was one the year of her birth and at Chinese New Year became “two”.
Thanks Klynn73. We are very excited about this new little one. It has helped me through a very rough Summer. And I think if I was your sister my head would be swimming as I was never very fond of math! lol.
My second child has just been conceived, we think July 4th 2011 and next year I will almost certainly celebrate the day my baby son or daughter’s life began.
Sidney, YIPPEE SKIPPEE!!! How exciting. Praying for you, your family and the new little one! Congratulations!
My second child has just been conceived, we think July 4th 2011 and next year I will almost certainly celebrate the day my baby son or daughter’s life began.
What? WHAT?!? :) :) :) That’s awesome news, Sydney!!! Congratulations! I am so happy for you!
Sydney!!!
Can I be a brat and say that I already knew?? :)
SO HAPPY FOR YOU!!
Carla, you crack me up. You were one the first people I told! Thanks all for the smiley faces and congrats. That makes me feel loved! Thanks!!! :-)
I stopped reading many comments ago, so forgive me if this comment is out of jive.
Each and every single one of us is suffering from a terminal condition from the moment of conception - it’s called life. Each and every single one of us is destined to suffer during our spin on the globe – it’s called life.
Until pro-choicers collectively agree that death today is best for themselves because of the fact that they’re going to die soon anyway… and until they collectively agree that death today is best for themselves because of the fact that this life is hard and wrought with daily challenges that pain our hearts and bodies, then I will not entertain this nonesense about killing the most vulnerable because they are unable to speak up for themselves and announce that they’d like to give life a shot anyway. Pain is such a subjective thing – both physical and emotional. We CANNOT propose to deem someone else’s suffering as worthy of imposing death upon them.
I joke with my mom and dad (mostly dad) that I was probably conceived on April Fool’s Day since they usually calculate due date with two weeks past the nine month period…and I was 10 days overdue and was due jan 15….so I tease my dad that I MUST have been an April Fool’s gift. ;)
Congrats Sydney!
Conception Days aren’t celebrated because no one wants to think about their parents having sex. *shudder*
Derrr,
“Again, like I said, not every CPC is terrible or corrupt. Not every CPC is good and helpful. Not ever Planned Parenthood employee is terrible or corrupt. Not every Planned Parenthood employee is good and helpful. Why am I the only one that can admit to both sides?”
I have been the director of two different CPCs – in two different states – for more than 16 years. AND my administrative assistant used to work at Planned Parenthood. AND we have invited our local PP director to visit our center AND we have visited their center.
I am ALL about building bridges. Our local PP does NOT perform abortions, but they do readily refer, provide the transportation AND pay for it if necessary. The people who work in our PP are very kind people – they are simply doing what they THINK is good (as Abby Johnson talks about in her book – Unplanned).
I know, for a fact, that our local PP had NO requirements on education for whomever counsels with women and does the pregnancy test. My assistant has none of the education you mentioned, nor did she need it to work with the patients. I also know they have many hours when there is no medical personnel on site whatsoever.
I WILL also admit that there are CPCs that are NOT operating at or above the expected standards of medical care – AND there are PP clinics that are also NOT operating at these same standards. There are some CPCs that have made me cringe in their operating procedures. As there are PP clinics who are not allowing women to receive the education they need to really make an educated, informed decision.
I am ALSO a woman who had an abortion – and have wished for 28 years that someone would have simply asked me some questions to make me stop and think about a decision that would impact me for the remainder of my life. I was a 4.0 student and intelligent. It’s not rocket science to realize those women who will truly suffer after that decision (especially those, like me, who have a strong religious conviction).
At my center we will NEVER condemn nor make a woman feel horrible if she chooses to have an abortion. We WILL, however, treat her as the smart, intelligent woman she is – giving her all the information she needs. Challenging her to truly think about her decision – whether it is parenting, adoption or abortion. After all, once she is pregnant, her life is changed FOREVER – regardless of which decision she chooses.
My center is NOT a “fake medical clinic” – as many of the CPCs out there are not. I can’t stand how CPCWatch lumps them ALL into the same category. And, yes, I have read the articles. We have FIVE nurses on our staff and operate under the direction of a local physician. We also have the head of our radiology department from our local hospital read every one of our ultrasound scans for accuracy.
We also work with every pregnant woman who wants our help – week in and week out – providing her with skills as she (including the fathers) prepares to be a parent. She earns clothes, diapers, a crib and car seat as she progresses through our program. The help for those women is extraordinary – all offered at NO COST.
Most CPCs are doing amazing work. I cannot speak for all of them.